#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 21 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:20 AM Deejay: moin
01:40 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
04:53 AM jthornton: morning
04:54 AM jymmmm: Good morning
04:55 AM jymmmm: jthornton: Sorry about the other day, I half missed the conversation, and thought you were traveling for social reason, not work.
05:01 AM Tom_L: morning
05:05 AM XXCoder: hey
05:05 AM jymmmm: Monring Tom_L XXCoder
05:08 AM XXCoder: whats up
05:08 AM XXCoder: 3 am. shmm yeah definitely morning
05:11 AM Tom_L: 16°F
05:11 AM Tom_L: certainly not the temp.
05:15 AM jthornton: 24°F
05:16 AM XXCoder: 40s f here heh thurs it miiight go over into very low 50sf
05:20 AM jymmmm: Eeeeesh
05:20 AM jymmmm: Tom_L Damn, you need better heating than I do!
05:22 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: Yeah, just woke up -shrug-
05:22 AM XXCoder: heh i got home from work at 2 am
05:22 AM XXCoder: now just chilling till later to bed
05:23 AM Loetmichel: *GAAAH* $me is designing a sheet alu extension for the back cap of a 46" TV... desinging all the bends. nearly done, wanted to make the CNC file: noticed that i made the thing as wide as the existing cap and THEN bent down the sides... redo from start... good thing i caught it before actually milling it, wouldt have fit inside the original cap because of bend radius and material thickness
05:23 AM Loetmichel: :-(
06:00 AM miss0r: g'day
06:00 AM XXCoder: yo
06:23 AM miss0r: I'm setting up for a second run at the transferbox oil pan now.
06:23 AM miss0r: fingers crossed
06:28 AM * jthornton gets to relax a bit today and putz around the shop
06:28 AM miss0r: nice
06:28 AM miss0r: I should do that sometime
06:28 AM miss0r: It could use a good clean in here :D
06:29 AM jthornton: I need to make a haul to the scrap yard bad, scrap metal is piled up everywhere
06:30 AM SpeedEvil: jthornton: It's not scrap, it's just that you haven't built your foundry yet.
06:31 AM jthornton: well actually I can process aluminum now, I have an oil burner for a new foundry
06:31 AM jthornton: https://gnipsel.com/images/casting/
06:32 AM XXCoder: now thats hot capbell
06:33 AM jthornton: https://gnipsel.com/images/casting/Burner%20Test%2003.jpg
06:33 AM jthornton: that's the propane burner
06:34 AM XXCoder: did you see myfordboy 3d printed parts oil burner? looked cool
06:34 AM XXCoder: hot too
06:34 AM jthornton: I think I did, not sure
06:36 AM XXCoder: i dont think I will ever to melting alum and casting
06:36 AM XXCoder: I plan to cast easy to melt metals though
06:36 AM XXCoder: like 100c something
06:41 AM XXCoder: well "plan" is strong word
06:41 AM jthornton: what kind of metal?
06:42 AM XXCoder: pewler is one of em, though have to be careful not to get lead version
07:06 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/Pewter-Ingot-2lbs-Britannia-Alloy/dp/B01F5SBCY4
07:07 AM XXCoder: nice, larger size. but is value matching what cost of metal is?
07:07 AM XXCoder: 563f hm jigher than I thought
07:08 AM XXCoder: pictures is really nice in reviews
07:10 AM jthornton: you gotta watch amazon often they are not the lowest price
07:55 AM CaptHindsight: https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/36905317/
07:56 AM CaptHindsight: another CNC expert that might achieve machining while at the beach with his smartphone or neural AI interface over the cloud :)
08:00 AM Elmo40: jthornton, just like Costco isn't always the best deal.
08:00 AM Elmo40: and sales are not always a sure bet
08:00 AM Elmo40: it is all a shell game...
08:01 AM Elmo40: CaptHindsight, never understood this remote machining thing. you can't hear the tool chatter.
08:03 AM CaptHindsight: Elmo40: well experts like this don;t seem to understand things like that, so it might be irrelevant :)
08:04 AM Elmo40: they must be using a template (inside joke... but when you design a service garage and use the wrong scale template for the parking layout, shit don't fit!)
08:05 AM CaptHindsight: i say encourage them to go write their software, it keeps them busy
08:06 AM Elmo40: it was for tractor trailers, too! the building was something like 1:100 and the trucks were 1:95 ! Just a tad on the small side.
08:06 AM Elmo40: nah, encourage them to write useful software!
08:07 AM CaptHindsight: they insist that they know better
08:07 AM gregcnc: who does civil work at something other than 1:1??
08:07 AM CaptHindsight: big blueprints?
08:08 AM gregcnc: nobody uses models for that
08:08 AM Elmo40: this was late 80's
08:08 AM gregcnc: ok
08:08 AM gregcnc: well
08:08 AM gregcnc: autoturn wasn't released until 91
08:13 AM CaptHindsight: Elmo40: maybe the AI will take care of the chatter?
08:13 AM gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dZ28RZQccU
08:13 AM gregcnc: work is being done in that realm
08:13 AM CaptHindsight: the AI will sense the tool has worn or similar and adjust feeds and speeds or change the tool
08:14 AM gregcnc: there are holders which measure vibration, but are so long it seems like a big compromise
08:15 AM CaptHindsight: since the whole CNC plant is automated and run from the beach I'd gues that one the robots in the shop will attend to the issue
08:16 AM gregcnc: we do have flying cars right? it's 2020?
08:16 AM CaptHindsight: all parts will also be placed in fixtures and pallets for automated handling from door to door
08:16 AM syyl: haha
08:17 AM syyl: i love when i see the fully automated demos at tradeshow
08:17 AM gregcnc: cutting air
08:17 AM syyl: and the real world is just a shitshow :D
08:17 AM CaptHindsight: it's probably in rev2 of the CNC software
08:23 AM CaptHindsight: so lets think this through, the CNC operator maybe on the other side of the world from the CNC machine
08:24 AM CaptHindsight: who will load and unload the parts from the CNC?
08:25 AM gregcnc: the production line will end at the back door where the shipper will pick it up
08:26 AM gregcnc: we know the entire process can be fully automated, but we also know it makes no sense except for the highest volumes
08:26 AM CaptHindsight: it sounds like everything in the shop will have to be automated or some worker or workers will need to be there to attend to things
08:27 AM CaptHindsight: maybe that is the intended market for this software? :) unlikely
08:27 AM gregcnc: since tooling reps will have nobody to talk to, they will be relegated to filling vises and toolholders
08:28 AM CaptHindsight: I've also been thinking about why I'm running my machines from the beach
08:28 AM CaptHindsight: sea levels have risen and there is more beach
08:29 AM CaptHindsight: maybe I just like beaches, I don't know
08:32 AM CaptHindsight: what if CNC operators have all been drafted into military service to operate drones for the drone wars, leaving just a scarce few available for machining?
08:33 AM gregcnc: you just need to find a few people that can push the green button
08:33 AM CaptHindsight: yes, which can be automated by AI
08:33 AM CaptHindsight: so really all we need is AI to run CNC, since the operator just presses buttons
08:34 AM CaptHindsight: what a monkey can do
08:34 AM CaptHindsight: or AI
08:34 AM gregcnc: don't worry before long AI will be making all these decisions and we will be free to do whatever, like move to mars
08:36 AM CaptHindsight: so AI is what they should be working on if they want modern, from our perspective
08:37 AM gregcnc: i wonder what Mars beaches are like?
08:37 AM CaptHindsight: red?
08:40 AM CaptHindsight: the next step might just be having AI replace CNC and physical parts
08:40 AM CaptHindsight: why bother with tangible items when AI can just imagine it?
08:41 AM gregcnc: enter...the matrix
08:41 AM CaptHindsight: that is it!
08:42 AM CaptHindsight: they should write virtual CNC machines on virtual machines to perform virtual machining
08:42 AM CaptHindsight: think of the cost savings
08:43 AM CaptHindsight: you can pretend to make anything, anywhere from anywhere
09:54 AM Loetmichel: maan, 8 hours of work for just a few coloured pixes... at least i am pretty sure it will fit the TV... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17645&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
12:08 PM skunkworks: it is because they equate 3d printing to machining.. it is the same - right?
12:13 PM roycroft: 3d printing is an additive process; machining is a subtractive process
12:14 PM roycroft: they are literal opposites
12:14 PM CaptHindsight: when you don't know what you don't know yet it looks like it will work
12:15 PM CaptHindsight: even 3D printing needs an attendant
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: though the better machines need less
12:17 PM SpeedEvil: So does conventional machining really.
12:17 PM SpeedEvil: At least until you have really dialed in the program and process.
12:18 PM CaptHindsight: so we can point this out to the software developer and if they don't agree then encourage them to go ahead and write their app....
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: if they still don't recognize the problem after testing the application .....
12:20 PM roycroft: when discussing automation, it's only a matter of time before robots do the attending of the robots that do the work
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: ever deal with teens that know everything, until they don't?
12:22 PM roycroft: you mean every teenager ever, including all of us?
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: of course
12:23 PM roycroft: yes, i deal with teenagers on a regular basis
12:26 PM CaptHindsight: if they don't respond to wisdom, what is the next step? (1) ridicule, (2) hand them rope, (3) no TV for a week
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: didn't machinekit solve this "problem"? Or were they trying to solve some other problem?
12:31 PM roycroft: the rope, and careful supervision
12:32 PM roycroft: the other two options will have the opposite of the desired affect on their behavior
12:46 PM Rab: I ran Machinekit on a BeagleBone Black. Displeased by its slow graphics performance (~11 fps in AXIS), I experimented with both X forwarding and VNC. Both of those functioned perfectly fine, but the framerate wasn't any faster.
12:47 PM Rab: Doesn't X forwarding work on PCs? I don't understand what these people are arguing about.
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: I'm not entirely sure, they seem to be against X forwarding as well
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: it might be that real time machine control should be on the local machine and the GUI on a second device that requires very little bandwidth between the two
12:54 PM Rab: Well, I wanted that; I spent some time trying to figure out if the connection between AXIS and the rest of the package could be run over a network link, and didn't get very far. But eventually I realized that I was wasting time on a fringe use case and bought a PC.
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: "I would rather "experiment" with headless CNC machine located in EU from my GUI front-end on Linux workstation in CA. Modern bandwidth would allow for video from a camera mounted above CNC machine."
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: "You can try running X-windows over PPP connection through 56k modem over the phone line if you want. "
12:55 PM roycroft: rab: i had an order to place with amazon, and added that self-adhesive tape measure to the order
12:56 PM Rab: What is Linux for, if not for entertaining fringe use cases?
12:56 PM roycroft: it has arrived, and it's off by about 1/64" over 3"
12:56 PM roycroft: er
12:56 PM roycroft: 3'
12:56 PM roycroft: that's tolerable
12:56 PM roycroft: so thanks
12:56 PM Rab: roycroft, how about 50"?
12:56 PM Rab: Sure!
12:56 PM roycroft: i don't have an accurate 50" rule
12:56 PM Rab: Extrapolating, I guess <1/32".
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: not sure about how much compression he'd tolerate, so maybe it should work at >56K bps but under 1M bps
12:57 PM roycroft: and i'll reiterate that for woodworking, a precise dimension is usually not necessary, as long as all the parts that should be the same size are the same size
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: maybe it's for woodworking CNC?
12:59 PM CaptHindsight: I don't know what the real project was behind machinekit
12:59 PM roycroft: i bet if i pulled out a half dozen tape measures out of my bucket-o'-tapes at random, and measured a board that's approximately 50" long, i'd get a half dozen different measurements
01:00 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, as far as I can tell, it was to run LinuxCNC on a BBB because they're cute and tiny.
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: I think it was more, but it's just my guess
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: the other feature that comes up is having LCNC work over USB
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/araisrobo I think they had a fork of LCNC working over USB
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: http://en.araisrobo.com/products/ar1160 but I only see a machinekit based device on their site
02:23 PM Jymmm: Hey CaptHindsight
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: hay Jymmm
02:43 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: hows it goin?
02:47 PM Rab: 20% discount at OnlineMetals.com: https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum/general/1850205-discount-metals-discount
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: busy, a watching a bit of the master debaters on CNN
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: a/and
03:35 PM miss0r: yay, the new oil pan came out nice. https://imgur.com/a/EpVV4a0 no wrong programming this time
03:35 PM XXCoder: yay
03:36 PM miss0r: model 2.0 will have an o-ring groove I think :)
03:37 PM miss0r: so I can get rid of the original rubber infused cork gasket :D
03:38 PM XXCoder: :)
04:26 PM JT-Shop: my buddy gave me an unused boxed set of adjustable reamers labeled A-K, I wonder what the letters mean?
04:30 PM Deejay: gn8
04:33 PM Rab: JT-Shop, do they correspond to letter drills?
04:33 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, are they letter drill sizes?
04:34 PM Tom_L: yeah what he said :D
04:34 PM JT-Shop: no they are fractional from 3/8 or so to 1" or so
04:34 PM JT-Shop: remember adjustable reamers are big with 6 vanes
04:35 PM Tom_itx: https://drillsandcutters.com/adjustable-reamers/
04:36 PM Tom_L: that gives the ranges
04:36 PM Tom_itx: A is 15/32 to 17/32
04:36 PM Tom_itx: etc
04:37 PM Tom_itx: you can read :)
04:37 PM JT-Shop: ok
04:37 PM JT-Shop: I wonder if the set from India is better or worse than the tiwan set
04:37 PM Tom_L: if you click on each of the letters it gives you the range
04:37 PM Tom_L: that might be a hard toss up
04:39 PM JT-Shop: that makes two sets of adjustable reamers I have and never use
04:39 PM Tom_L: trade a set for something else you'll never use
04:39 PM * JT-Shop heads for the beer cave to putz around with the coop controls
04:40 PM Rab: I'd place Taiwan over India for tools...very generally speaking.
04:45 PM jthornton: I kinda thought that myself
04:45 PM Tom_L: i'm still undecided :)
04:54 PM roycroft: usa/europe/japan > taiwan > china > vietnam/india is the general order of quality :)
04:55 PM Tom_L: you left out germany
04:55 PM roycroft: germany is part of europe
04:55 PM syyl_: and included somehow usa
04:55 PM roycroft: things actually made in the usa (increasingly rare) can be of high quality
04:56 PM Tom_L: 'europe' it too lumped
04:56 PM roycroft: i said "general order"
04:56 PM syyl_: ;)
04:56 PM syyl_: just joking
04:56 PM syyl_: in my experience, every country can produce high quality or a piece of crap
04:56 PM roycroft: now, as china is close to taiwan as second-tier, vietnamese and indian tooling will become better
04:57 PM roycroft: african countries are about the only places left to exploit cheap labor
04:57 PM roycroft: so before long it will be usa/europe/japan > china/taiwan > vietnam/india > african countries
04:58 PM Tom_L: what about our friends to the south?
04:58 PM Tom_L: ?
04:58 PM roycroft: they don't seem interested
04:58 PM roycroft: mexico is more about car parts than tooling
04:58 PM Tom_L: and drugs
04:58 PM roycroft: yeah, but that's everywhere
04:59 PM roycroft: not quite to the degree as in mexico
04:59 PM roycroft: it's not so much the drugs there as the cartels
04:59 PM roycroft: they rival the ones in colombia
04:59 PM roycroft: idiot reviews:
05:00 PM roycroft: item: Genuine Arkansas Black Surgical (Ultra Fine) Slip Stone Whetstone for Sharpening Carving Tools
05:00 PM roycroft: dimensions clearly stated
05:00 PM roycroft: review: i thought they were bigger i need them for my lathe tools but these are to small they would work good for carving tools
05:00 PM roycroft: translation: i gave them a poor rating because they are exactly what they say they are and i wanted them to be something different
05:01 PM roycroft: unsharp minds should not have access to sharp tools
05:25 PM skunkworks: roycroft: what do you use for servers?
05:58 PM unterhaus: speaking of stupid reviews, I have an app that keeps popping up requests for me to fill out a survey
05:59 PM unterhaus: I asked support if they can turn it off or if I have to go to the app store and leave them a bad review
06:00 PM veegee: How much should I spend toward a decent home shop surface grinder?
06:01 PM unterhaus: I tried to talk my wife into letting me spend $40k on a cnc grinder, no go
06:02 PM unterhaus: Probably a good thing, the job dried up
06:20 PM roycroft: what do you mean, skunkworks?
06:26 PM jthornton: I spent $4k for a manual 6x12 surface grinder with a dust collector that turned out to be a dust distributor so I turned it into a vacuum system for a cyclone sawdust collection system
06:27 PM flyback: none veegee
06:27 PM flyback: eh-holes don't deserve to have a grinder
06:31 PM unterhaus: the dust collector on the grinder at work caught on fire. That was fun.
06:32 PM unterhaus: that was a nice grinder, I think I saw used examples going for $8k
06:54 PM skunkworks: roycroft: what is your favorite server hardware?
06:57 PM skunkworks: I have been using dell r720's but would like to get something a few generations newer. Maybe something with Epyc...
07:17 PM flyback: <unterhaus> the dust collector on the grinder at work caught on fire. That was fun.
07:17 PM flyback: yeah you have to maintain dust collectors or they become a problem
07:18 PM flyback: espically if you are shaving metals that like to go nuclear when dusted
07:18 PM flyback: heh
07:18 PM flyback: I just got two core2xeons for my sc1430 dell
07:18 PM flyback: upgradeed the ram to 8gb ecc
07:18 PM flyback: the other box is a pe840 with a core2quad and 2gb ecc
07:18 PM flyback: they are only for data recovery though, kinda old but good for pulling data fron dying old hd's etc
07:19 PM flyback: the current sc1430 cpu is a p4d which is 95 tdp
07:19 PM flyback: so swapping in one or two core2xeon's will be 40-80w
07:19 PM flyback: wish I could have used late model 45nm but neither box supports them
07:19 PM flyback: and this rev sc1430 board won't allow corequad xeon's either
07:20 PM flyback: oh well cost me $12 for the cpu's and like $12 for the ram
07:20 PM flyback: I have two so I can verify the first box's disk raw image
07:20 PM flyback: unless it's a really badly dying disk then you will end up getting more sectors on one box than the other making it hard to checksum
07:21 PM flyback: biggest challange has been ups
07:21 PM flyback: both have early rev active pfc that shorts out ups's
07:21 PM flyback: but I found this really old back-ups that has 2x switching speed as modern ones
07:21 PM flyback: and it works fine for the sc1430 which has a totally propritary psu
07:22 PM flyback: the pe840 has a mostly atx psu except 5vsb is 3.3vsb and moved to the unused pin on atx header so I could resolve ups issues with a psu swap
07:22 PM flyback: cheaper than getting a sine ups
07:22 PM flyback: main issue isn't so much non sine as it is the switching speed of ups's
07:22 PM flyback: active pfc psu's have less input caps so they are more sensitve to switch time
07:23 PM skunkworks: the current one I am playing with is dual e5-2640. (we have 2 identical ones)
07:23 PM flyback: that sc1430 is nice, no remote sol, bmc like the pe840 but it's in my room so not an issue
07:23 PM flyback: the pe840 is sealed in the work room fruit celler so it can't be bumped
07:23 PM flyback: so being headless you neee bmc/isol
07:24 PM flyback: it's unheated in that room so dad and I came up with clever hack
07:24 PM flyback: we boxed it in with foam under the table
07:24 PM flyback: it can be -20F in that room and it's 68F inside
07:24 PM skunkworks: neat!
07:24 PM flyback: nice temp for dying old hd's so they run long enough to image
07:25 PM flyback: the only really bad thing about both dell poweredges is they both insist on stopping booting to tell me a disk is failing
07:25 PM flyback: NO DUAH
07:25 PM flyback: I got around that with sata drives by disabling the ports in the bios, linux still finds the ports, you just can't use that for the boot port which is not failing anyways
07:25 PM flyback: doesn't work for pata so I put a promise ata card in both
07:26 PM flyback: im very happy so far I got like 50 imaged
07:26 PM flyback: 15 unreadable but I have identical twins so as soon as I get them imaged
07:26 PM flyback: I can use them as doner drives
07:26 PM flyback: to get the dead ones going
07:27 PM _unreal_: ve7it, sup
07:27 PM flyback: 200 about total, not all were failing, some were retired, bad drives from work to test recovery on etc
07:27 PM flyback: but moving twice they got all all mixed in the box
07:27 PM _unreal_: ve7it, just got a bunch of my parts in finally. still STILL waiting on the damn opamps though...
07:27 PM flyback: safesat to treat them all as if it could be the one with data I lost 20 yrs ago
07:27 PM flyback: cause if you over image
07:27 PM flyback: OMG
07:27 PM flyback: YOU HAVE TOO MUCH DATA
07:27 PM flyback: THE HORROR
07:27 PM flyback: RM -RF
07:27 PM flyback: vs finding out too late like I did that the printouts were thrown out by accident :(
07:28 PM * flyback is still haunted to tears in dreams about that :(
07:28 PM flyback: my early bbs, irc contacts
07:28 PM _unreal_: I image-ine a lot
07:28 PM flyback: skunkworks, make sure you keep the bios and bmc and drac and lifecycle controller and nics up to date on firmware
07:28 PM flyback: they fix a shitload of bugs in those
07:29 PM flyback: espically with security issues in cpu's with specter/meltdown etc
07:29 PM flyback: mine aren't patchable but they aren't used for internet anyways
07:29 PM flyback: just imaging
07:29 PM flyback: but I did update them to the latest whatever dell had
07:29 PM flyback: _unreal_, yeah well this was 20 yrs ago when you had to use floppies etc
07:29 PM flyback: now as I image recovery them
07:30 PM flyback: they are getting backed up a shitload of times
07:30 PM _unreal_: I just got a nifty micro controller at goodwill tessel 2 microconroller
07:30 PM flyback: that reminds me I need to git sync and recompile my flux engine firmwares to latest
07:30 PM flyback: im really happy with those btw _unreal_
07:31 PM _unreal_: dont know anything about it other then it has never been opened and it looks like they sell for $50 I got it for $2
07:31 PM flyback: if you end up with any old floppy cnc gear that needs to pull files off old disks
07:31 PM flyback: so you can move it to a floppy hw emulator
07:31 PM _unreal_: flyback, I miss using floppys
07:31 PM flyback: flux engine works 100x better than the pc's brain damaged floppy controller
07:31 PM _unreal_: nothing like "SNEAKER" net
07:31 PM flyback: I don't
07:31 PM flyback: I never will
07:31 PM flyback: heheh
07:31 PM flyback: I plan to run hw floppy emulator hw
07:31 PM flyback: for floppy old devices
07:31 PM flyback: old music keyboards etc
07:32 PM flyback: flux engine is for getting the files off the disk first :P
07:32 PM flyback: I did work for a isp once
07:32 PM flyback: in 1998 or 1999
07:32 PM flyback: they were closing their comp store part
07:32 PM _unreal_: flyback, "HAPPY" with what?
07:32 PM flyback: flux engine
07:32 PM flyback: before they could close their stroe
07:32 PM _unreal_: dont know anything about flux engine.
07:33 PM flyback: they had to finish a pharamcy upgrade
07:33 PM flyback: the pharmcy rx software ran on sco
07:33 PM flyback: old sco couldn't use new sco filesystem or new tape drive
07:33 PM flyback: and vice versa
07:33 PM flyback: you had to backup to 144 floppies
07:33 PM flyback: 5 hrs
07:33 PM flyback: and any time one disk had one bad sector
07:33 PM flyback: had to start over
07:33 PM flyback: ...................3 days of this and long distance talking to the rx sw company
07:33 PM flyback: I noticed the backup script used tar
07:34 PM flyback: so I took a ide disk
07:34 PM flyback: 0 wiped it
07:34 PM flyback: told tar to output to that as if it was a tape or floppy disk
07:34 PM flyback: worked perfect
07:34 PM flyback: made $700 and a free dial up
07:37 PM flyback: http://cowlark.com/fluxengine/index.html
07:37 PM flyback: _unreal_, your kid could make one
07:37 PM flyback: you literally order a $10 cypress psoc5 devle board
07:37 PM flyback: slide a floppy connector into the holes
07:37 PM flyback: solder
07:37 PM flyback: done
07:38 PM flyback: it does apple, c64, etc
07:38 PM flyback: and handles damage way better
07:42 PM Tom_L: flyback, what does that guy do in his spare time?
07:42 PM flyback: which guy
07:42 PM flyback: the cowlark guy?
07:42 PM flyback: no idea
07:43 PM flyback: but the other floppy hw reader project - floppycontrol is a big cnc guy
07:43 PM flyback: that one is a lot harder to make
07:43 PM * _unreal_ say's one sec need to catch up reading, just finished setting up the next PCB milling job
07:43 PM flyback: $50 arduino + custom pcb
07:43 PM flyback: oh just bookmark them
07:43 PM flyback: no real to get derailed
07:43 PM flyback: basically they are lik ethe old catweasel unterhaus
07:43 PM flyback: _unreal_,
07:44 PM flyback: flopycontrol is scary
07:44 PM flyback: he has oscilloscope input mode
07:44 PM * _unreal_ now needs beer
07:44 PM flyback: waveform editor
07:44 PM * _unreal_ grabs an other pale ale
07:44 PM flyback: and you can attach the floppy drive stepper to the board
07:44 PM flyback: to microstep
07:44 PM flyback: for misaligned disks or disks you had to glue the hub back on
07:44 PM Tom_L: i think pepsi made a floppy emulator on a mega128 once. too bad he's not around to see it
07:45 PM flyback: no not a emulator
07:45 PM flyback: this is a reader
07:45 PM flyback: talks right to the drive
07:45 PM flyback: records the raw drive pulses
07:45 PM flyback: then runs them thru pc sw to decode
07:45 PM flyback: what do you mean
07:45 PM flyback: pepsi isn't dead is he?
07:45 PM Tom_L: i know it's not
07:45 PM Tom_L: i dunno
07:46 PM flyback: I just talked with him a few months ago
07:46 PM flyback: we think thebear might be dead
07:46 PM Tom_L: haven't heard anything in several yesars
07:46 PM flyback: and jfk911/j9 offed himself
07:46 PM flyback: due to terminal cancer
07:46 PM Tom_L: rue would know about thebear
07:46 PM flyback: that one was really hard for me
07:46 PM flyback: cause they revived him once
07:46 PM flyback: and i kept trying to keep him going
07:46 PM flyback: and he killed himself again
07:47 PM _unreal_: ve7it, are you around?
07:48 PM Tom_L: pepsi sent me one of his 128 boards long time ago
07:48 PM Tom_L: never did much with it
07:48 PM _unreal_: pepsi?
07:48 PM Tom_L: a guy you don't know
07:48 PM _unreal_: or do I.
07:48 PM _unreal_: ;)
07:48 PM flyback: he's had a lot of susteanance and legal problems
07:48 PM Tom_L: pretty sure not
07:48 PM flyback: substence
07:49 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I just got a a nifty microcontroller from goodwill for $2, tessel 2 microcontroller
07:49 PM flyback: cool
07:49 PM flyback: wait tessel
07:49 PM flyback: isn't that what's in the esp32 and esp8266
07:49 PM Tom_L: i got a few rabbit boards off vehicle tracking systems
07:50 PM Tom_L: along with pc100? boards
07:50 PM flyback: fuck
07:50 PM flyback: I just setup off the pinched nerve again
07:51 PM _unreal_: I dont know anything about this board
07:51 PM _unreal_: doesnt seem like its a big hit ether
07:51 PM _unreal_: not much for projects on line using it
07:52 PM flyback: confirmed _unreal_
07:52 PM flyback: tensilica is what is esp8266 and esp32 aee based around
07:52 PM flyback: with modifications
07:52 PM flyback: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensilica
07:53 PM flyback: was also the video playback cpu in ati/amd gpu's for a while
07:53 PM flyback: ...................... STUPID CANUCKS
07:53 PM * flyback foams at the mouth over ati being canadian
07:54 PM flyback: in fact
07:55 PM flyback: someone got a os booted on the tensilica cpu in a radeon gpu
07:55 PM flyback: long ago
07:55 PM flyback: just to do it
07:56 PM _unreal_: so as I siad I dont know anything about this board or what it can do
07:56 PM Tom_L: damn, i completely forgot about the stamp
07:57 PM _unreal_: also I just opened it... interesting but again dont know what I can do it with. it has an ether net port, wifi, and GPIO and usb ports on it.... much past that shrugging sholders
07:57 PM Tom_L: looking for something on the server and ran across some stamp files
07:57 PM _unreal_: would be cool if it could be used like a mesa
07:57 PM Tom_L: unlikely
07:58 PM _unreal_: I would tend to agree
07:59 PM _unreal_: ok holes drilled now I'm milling my 3rd/final pcb for my new cnc machine servo controllers
08:00 PM flyback: basic stamp?
08:00 PM flyback: those were neat but too expensive
08:00 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:00 PM Tom_L: parallax
08:00 PM flyback: they priced themselves out of too many markets
08:00 PM flyback: I still can';t believe we have 3 cent mcu's now
08:01 PM flyback: granted otp and very limited onboard devices but still
08:01 PM _unreal_: I have a parallax 16c52 or someting like that basic stamp 2 somewhere
08:01 PM flyback: cheaper and smarter than a piece of 74xx logic
08:01 PM _unreal_: never EVER done anything with it
08:01 PM flyback: yeah I got 3 msp430, 3 8052's, a stm32f4 and stm32f0's
08:01 PM flyback: never got anything done
08:01 PM flyback: along with 2 ppc boards
08:01 PM flyback: life got too messy etc
08:02 PM flyback: once I get the data recovery project backup and running
08:02 PM flyback: going to start looking into this tuff
08:02 PM _unreal_: life-messy AGREED
08:02 PM flyback: I suffered health issues for the last 17 yrs
08:02 PM flyback: made life hell
08:02 PM flyback: still goes on but ya know
08:02 PM _unreal_: flyback, you YOU need to get a small cnc
08:02 PM flyback: no room
08:02 PM flyback: even for a handheld one right now
08:02 PM flyback: but eventually mabye in the garage etc
08:03 PM _unreal_: I mean DUDE.... I'm making parts for my new machine using my current machine
08:03 PM flyback: I know I know
08:03 PM _unreal_: I'm making the motor controllers. the lead screw mounts ETC...
08:03 PM flyback: but I argue with dad as it is
08:03 PM _unreal_: everything Ineed for the new
08:03 PM flyback: plus things got more complex
08:04 PM _unreal_: then get rid of stuff
08:04 PM _unreal_: speaking of "DAD" my father has stage4 colon cancer :/
08:04 PM flyback: sorry :/
08:04 PM flyback: do they have it under control now?
08:04 PM _unreal_: hi own #@$%@Q#$%^Q!$#@R%#@r fault. doctors are bad they make you SICK bull shit
08:05 PM flyback: it's felt liek I had colon cacner for 17 yrs
08:05 PM flyback: but been checked
08:05 PM flyback: my old neighbor, kid I used to play with as a kid
08:05 PM _unreal_: who has diarrhea for 18months
08:05 PM flyback: his mom has terminal stage 4 lung
08:05 PM flyback: UH
08:05 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/SBC/rabbit.jpg
08:05 PM flyback: 17 YRS
08:05 PM flyback: I get cramps so bad I flash ice cold and start shaking bounching off the floor
08:05 PM flyback: literally bouncing off the floor
08:05 PM flyback: sweating a puddle
08:05 PM flyback: no joke
08:06 PM _unreal_: flyback, that sounds like a diary issue
08:06 PM flyback: more litely divertuluscus
08:06 PM flyback: whateverspelling
08:06 PM flyback: also I had this since I was a kid
08:06 PM flyback: I remembered
08:06 PM _unreal_: do you drink milk at all?
08:06 PM flyback: difference was
08:06 PM flyback: bad then
08:06 PM flyback: it was minor
08:06 PM flyback: lasted seconds
08:06 PM Tom_L: flyback, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/SBC/inside_control.jpg
08:06 PM flyback: always pooped and was fine
08:06 PM flyback: never hysterical
08:07 PM Tom_L: i got half dozen of those free
08:07 PM Tom_L: gps etc
08:07 PM _unreal_: flyback, do you drink milk?
08:07 PM flyback: OH NICE
08:07 PM flyback: nemo cases too
08:07 PM flyback: not really that much anymore and no it's not lactose
08:07 PM flyback: could be cheliac but not lactose
08:07 PM flyback: Tom_L, there's a bunch of free os's for rabbits
08:07 PM Tom_L: they pulled the hdd out and drilled holes thru em
08:08 PM _unreal_: flyback, it does not take much milk to mess one up for weeks
08:08 PM flyback: Tom_L, whoc ares
08:08 PM flyback: hd's are a joke now
08:08 PM flyback: get cheap small ssd's
08:08 PM flyback: btw
08:08 PM _unreal_: I do NOT touch milk at all I use "silk" coconut milk
08:08 PM Tom_L: i got piles of samsung
08:08 PM flyback: don't waste your $$$$ on expensive rare pata ssd's
08:08 PM flyback: unless you find those small ones from thin clients etc
08:08 PM _unreal_: that includes instant puddings that use milk etc...
08:08 PM flyback: for $10
08:08 PM _unreal_: cheese is a soso subject
08:08 PM flyback: you can get a m2 to pata adaptor
08:08 PM flyback: and use any standard m2 ssd you want
08:08 PM Tom_L: i got an m2 samsung ssd
08:09 PM Tom_L: 1t
08:09 PM flyback: I bought four hp s600 120 sata ssd's
08:09 PM _unreal_: but flyback if you waht to try a test. CUT allllllllllllll foods that use RAW milk. of any kind.
08:09 PM flyback: I don't recommend them
08:09 PM flyback: $17 but they have a stall issue
08:09 PM flyback: fails for my dad but I will get my $17 easily
08:09 PM flyback: for embedded projects
08:09 PM flyback: they will be fine
08:09 PM flyback: the s700 are better
08:09 PM flyback: s600 seem to almost be denied they exist by hp and the maker
08:10 PM flyback: shame micron flash, marvell controller but seem to have issues
08:10 PM Tom_L: ur in NY right? i forget...
08:10 PM flyback: pa
08:10 PM flyback: 45 mins from pittsburgh
08:10 PM flyback: was in chippewa for thw last 14? yrs but grandma died in 2018
08:10 PM Tom_L: remember it was up N somewhere
08:10 PM flyback: so moved back in with the folks
08:10 PM flyback: chipewa is still part of beave falls though
08:10 PM flyback: 15 mins away
08:11 PM flyback: _unreal_, I went from a whole basement in a single floor house
08:11 PM flyback: to a small corner of a baement at folks
08:11 PM flyback: and paying $80/month for storage place that is probably 50% shit
08:11 PM Tom_L: grandma's?
08:11 PM flyback: but not had chance to sort
08:11 PM flyback: yeah I helped take care of her
08:11 PM Tom_L: i recall that
08:11 PM flyback: and it was a good starting step for being out of folks house
08:11 PM flyback: but she died
08:12 PM flyback: it's fine I don't mind being with the folks for now
08:12 PM flyback: the only thing I miss
08:12 PM flyback: her house you could pickup the airport etc with foil
08:12 PM Tom_L: you miss the washer
08:12 PM flyback: here I can't even get aam/fm station to stay well
08:12 PM flyback: hahaha na we replaced the one I flooded the basement with
08:12 PM flyback: but I flooded the basement many times after
08:12 PM flyback: not as bad though
08:12 PM flyback: never inches of water
08:13 PM Tom_L: i had a water heater blow up and flood recently
08:13 PM flyback: problem was a sewer gas backup
08:13 PM flyback: so I would have to plug the sinks at night
08:13 PM Tom_L: ~3-4"
08:13 PM flyback: else I wouldd dream people taking a shit in my face
08:13 PM flyback: when I smlled it in my sleep
08:13 PM flyback: the issue was if I turned on faucet or washer
08:13 PM flyback: and forgot
08:13 PM flyback: about the plugs
08:13 PM flyback: ouch
08:13 PM flyback: I hope you got a tub for the new one
08:13 PM flyback: they cost $10-$20
08:14 PM flyback: you are nuts not to get one
08:14 PM flyback: even if the tank is in the basement
08:14 PM Tom_L: it never leaked until it blew the side out
08:14 PM flyback: it's a tub with a pipe fixture you can direct to a drain, pump etc
08:14 PM flyback: ah well the folks basement had creeks in it
08:14 PM flyback: even before I moved out
08:14 PM flyback: I would wake up with my sleeping bag wet
08:14 PM flyback: I slepted on the floor back then
08:15 PM flyback: after I moved out they finally had to have french drains put in twice
08:15 PM flyback: one of the pumps just quit working and almost made a mess
08:15 PM flyback: the first time it failed in oct but he thougth it was just clogged with dirt
08:15 PM flyback: I knew from the oil slicks something was up
08:15 PM flyback: it lasted like 12 yrs though
08:15 PM flyback: Tom_L, i'd sue
08:15 PM flyback: sounds like the emergency pop valve failed
08:15 PM Tom_L: warranty was just up
08:16 PM flyback: doesn't matter
08:16 PM flyback: they aren't supposed to detonate
08:16 PM _unreal_: kaa...booooom.....
08:16 PM flyback: rust out and leak yes
08:16 PM flyback: not detonate
08:16 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/basement/water_heater_split.jpg
08:17 PM flyback: electric or gas
08:17 PM Tom_L: gas
08:17 PM flyback: ah ok good :)
08:17 PM flyback: on the electric ones make sure you keep replacing the rod
08:19 PM flyback: the eelctric ones have a zinc rod
08:19 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, you are VERY proud of that blowed up water heater :)
08:19 PM flyback: to couteract the coil causing rust acceleration
08:20 PM flyback: you ever see people recycle those
08:20 PM flyback: turn into forges etc
08:20 PM flyback: grills
08:20 PM _unreal_: gills?
08:20 PM _unreal_: OH grill
08:20 PM flyback: grills
08:20 PM flyback: as in bbq
08:21 PM _unreal_: I was like "HUH"????
08:21 PM flyback: when they get rusty sometimes it's just a small spot that negates it ever being a sealed liquid container again
08:21 PM flyback: b ut it could go decades as a fireplace etc
08:21 PM * _unreal_ maybe I missed somenthing
08:21 PM flyback: yeah you did
08:21 PM flyback: STUPID CANUCK
08:21 PM flyback: be sure to nitrogen purge it before you cut into a tank
08:22 PM flyback: even dead fro a year might have a little bit of gas left in some valve and go boom
08:22 PM flyback: very rarely that could happy but still
08:23 PM flyback: almost impossible inf act
08:23 PM flyback: but still
08:23 PM flyback: doesn't hurt to make sure the gas burner system is well purged
08:23 PM flyback: before you start cutting
08:23 PM _unreal_: I use to CUT open so many fridge copressors
08:23 PM flyback: I guess with both ends open it's pretty much impossible
08:23 PM _unreal_: back in the day
08:23 PM _unreal_: compressors
08:23 PM flyback: dude
08:23 PM flyback: you need to watch that shit
08:24 PM * flyback punches _unreal_
08:24 PM _unreal_: was funny watching the oil spray out
08:24 PM _unreal_: just mineral oil
08:24 PM flyback: burning or refridgerants exposed to hot spots = HF
08:24 PM flyback: your bone dissolves before your skin melts
08:24 PM _unreal_: hf?
08:24 PM flyback: you die of heart attack from calcium shock
08:24 PM flyback: hydroFLURIC
08:24 PM flyback: it eats glass
08:24 PM _unreal_: o,O
08:25 PM flyback: ass/ACID
08:25 PM flyback: fuck you hexchat autocorrect
08:25 PM _unreal_: there are no deadly components in 134A
08:25 PM flyback: wrong
08:25 PM flyback: one of the new 134a replacements is even way more HF prone
08:26 PM flyback: they were doing a hot exhaust manifold test
08:26 PM flyback: and the windshield went white
08:26 PM flyback: nitrogen purge compressors before you cut them
08:26 PM flyback: please
08:27 PM _unreal_: I use to cut the lines with TIN snips :)
08:27 PM _unreal_: pppssssssssssssssssssshshhsahahahahaaahsdhsshssssss
08:27 PM flyback: https://www.emsworld.com/article/10319665/hydrofluoric-acid-what-you-need-know
08:27 PM flyback: also why you don't throw compressed gas cans that use hcfc's for propellant
08:27 PM flyback: in a fire
08:28 PM _unreal_: cfc's are not used any more have not been for a long time
08:28 PM flyback: surprisingly some wheel rim cleaners and wink clothes rust stain remover contain HF
08:28 PM flyback: dude
08:28 PM flyback: HCFC
08:28 PM flyback: like 134A
08:28 PM flyback: and the new one
08:28 PM flyback: 400 something
08:28 PM flyback: contain the stuff needed to make HF
08:28 PM _unreal_: 1hr left of milling to make my PCB
08:28 PM * flyback punches _unreal_
08:28 PM flyback: pay attention for once
08:28 PM flyback: this ain't a joke
08:28 PM _unreal_: soon as I finish this beer I'm taking a HICKUP
08:28 PM _unreal_: shower
08:28 PM _unreal_: :)
08:28 PM flyback: look at those pics
08:29 PM flyback: that's what happens *AFTER* it dissolves bone and likely stops your heart
08:29 PM flyback: from calcium shock
08:29 PM _unreal_: flyback, I'm making these pcbs http://ve7it.cowlug.org/dspic-servo.html
08:29 PM flyback: <flyback> surprisingly some wheel rim cleaners and wink clothes rust stain remover contain HF
08:29 PM flyback: <flyback> dude
08:29 PM flyback: <flyback> HCFC
08:29 PM flyback: <flyback> like 134A
08:29 PM flyback: people used the wink stuff to make their own silicon chips
08:29 PM flyback: it's dilluted enough to likely not be terribly dangerous
08:29 PM flyback: but I would not allow it in a house with kids < 15 or so
08:30 PM flyback: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene
08:30 PM flyback: this is the latest one
08:30 PM flyback: can make HF
08:30 PM flyback: cause it has hydrogen and flurine
08:31 PM flyback: but not chlorine which was the ozone eater
08:32 PM flyback: flurine is the most electronegative element there is
08:32 PM _unreal_: flyback, YOU CAN BUY an unlimiated amount of chlorine from any POOL store for your pool..
08:32 PM flyback: _unreal_, they took flurine below zero
08:32 PM flyback: and charcoal
08:32 PM _unreal_: the whole AC safty shit is BULLSHIT
08:32 PM flyback: below zero
08:32 PM flyback: the charcoal lit itself on fire
08:32 PM flyback: this is not bullshit
08:33 PM flyback: they use HF in chip making
08:33 PM flyback: and there's been a lot of nasty accidents
08:33 PM _unreal_: omg I'm on my 3rd beer
08:33 PM flyback: yeah we can tell
08:33 PM * _unreal_ staggers a smile
08:33 PM _unreal_: LOL
08:33 PM flyback: Tom_L, be sure to keep harping on him when he's sober
08:34 PM _unreal_: some comith, some goith
08:36 PM _unreal_: wow.... fewww....
08:36 PM _unreal_: ok 3rd beer down I'm going to take a shower
08:36 PM _unreal_: NO details sorry
08:36 PM _unreal_: sigh 48min of milling to go
08:37 PM _unreal_: I could ETCH the board in 30min total but Id have 2 hours of PCB hole drilling by hand there after
08:44 PM flyback: he only raised it $2 didn't go back up to $9.99 which is still a steal http://www.bgmicro.com/CAP1420.aspx
08:44 PM veegee: skunkworks I generally whitebox my own servers, but HP DL380 G9 prices are decent now
08:45 PM veegee: However as with any "enterprise" servers, fan noise is a problem. I made a custom fan controller for mine, but always easier to whitebox your own server with something like Supermicro
08:45 PM flyback: veegee, did you see their minis
08:45 PM flyback: the dell minis are nice also
08:45 PM flyback: I don't mind sw raid anymore either
08:45 PM veegee: I've also got a Gigabyte R282-z92 dual Epyc Rome, 64 cores total, 512GB RAM
08:46 PM flyback: hell I use windows 2 disk raid 1 dynamic disk raid for desktops
08:46 PM flyback: 1/2
08:46 PM veegee: soft raid (mdadm or ZFS or BTRFS) is way better than hardware RAID
08:46 PM flyback: stupid typo
08:46 PM veegee: been that way for a decade
08:46 PM flyback: well yeah
08:46 PM veegee: just use a proper SAS controller
08:46 PM flyback: my data recovery box has a sas perc card attached to the 4 sata drives
08:46 PM flyback: but it doesn't do 10 or 5 so mdadm
08:46 PM veegee: I have iSCSI going over 100Gb Infiniband
08:46 PM flyback: which is fine for data recovery
08:47 PM flyback: you are talking disks that go 5KB/week
08:47 PM flyback: an sw raid is plenty fast
08:47 PM flyback: to store the image
08:47 PM flyback: :P
08:47 PM flyback: I got rid of the 5 now that all the large sata drives are imaged
08:47 PM flyback: converted to 10
08:47 PM flyback: less cpu usage etc
08:47 PM veegee: I just use LTO tape for long term storage
08:47 PM flyback: nice when I do string searches etcc on the images
08:47 PM flyback: well yeah I am triple backing up
08:47 PM flyback: plus tape etc
08:47 PM flyback: so I never lose stuff I cry over 20 yrs later
08:47 PM flyback: again
08:48 PM flyback: but I have to recover it first :P
08:48 PM flyback: veegee, did you ever see those vcr backups
08:48 PM veegee: Yes, silly
08:48 PM flyback: they had this isa and later pci
08:48 PM flyback: did 2gb/tape
08:48 PM veegee: people have been doing that to audio casettes and so on for fun
08:48 PM flyback: wasn't silly for the time
08:49 PM veegee: I have a MSL4048 tape library. 4 LTO-6 drives, 48 slots
08:49 PM flyback: oh nice
08:49 PM veegee: that's 120TB total with LTO-6.
08:49 PM flyback: I watched some videos on when tape was main storage
08:49 PM flyback: it was pretty neat what they were doing back then
08:50 PM flyback: slow etc but still was cool
08:50 PM flyback: they are a cunt to restore though
08:50 PM veegee: LTO is fast and painless
08:50 PM flyback: biggest problem is the early synthetic rubbers turn to glue
08:50 PM flyback: after decades
08:50 PM flyback: and not available
08:50 PM flyback: I remember the amphex restoration for the 1st moon landing tapes
08:50 PM veegee: LTO is faster than hard drives. Each drive does sustained 160MB/s. LTO-7 can do 300MB/s
08:50 PM flyback: cost $10,000 just to rebuild each set of heads
08:51 PM flyback: not even anything else
08:51 PM flyback: but they did it and once they digitizer those HD quality analog tapes
08:51 PM flyback: they auctioned them for 1 million
08:51 PM flyback: yeah LTO is nice
08:52 PM flyback: we are very anti tape at work because of all the older stuff that was more unreliable than my diseaed colon
08:52 PM flyback: but lto is nice
08:52 PM flyback: even older stuff would be fine for me
08:52 PM flyback: I need to get a qic drive
08:52 PM flyback: 512MB one
08:52 PM flyback: when the college I went to and worked in the server room for (used to sleep on the floor)
08:52 PM flyback: when they tossed the servers
08:52 PM flyback: I caught the tapes
08:52 PM flyback: love to try to recover my accounts
08:52 PM flyback: mabye fine my very first irc logs
08:53 PM flyback: ugh
08:53 PM Tom_L: 9 track?
08:53 PM flyback: not 525
08:53 PM veegee: if you know the recording type (serpentine, helical, etc.), you might be able to adapt a tape head and build a custom circuit
08:53 PM flyback: but yeah the videos I watched was 9 track on pdp etc
08:53 PM flyback: veegee, that might be nice since I could mabe do erased tapes
08:53 PM veegee: You guys are all pretty old
08:54 PM flyback: since I dd if=/dev/zero them
08:54 PM veegee: I'm only 29, that stuff was before my itme
08:54 PM flyback: should be a lot of noise left
08:54 PM flyback: im 46 in march
08:54 PM Tom_L: my bud offered me a 9 track and an HP raid
08:54 PM Tom_L: i declined on both counts
08:54 PM flyback: even windows "storage spaces" is very decent sw raid
08:54 PM flyback: the only downside is totally not bootable
08:54 PM flyback: but nothing beats zfs
08:54 PM veegee: yeah but latest ZFS on Linux have had serious performance issues
08:55 PM flyback: im not worried about performance for what I am doing
08:55 PM veegee: BTRFS gives me full throughput on my 36 disks in the gigabytes/s range
08:55 PM veegee: ZFS doesn't, can't even sustain 800MB/s
08:55 PM flyback: I can copy files to a fast machine to process the data out of a image
08:55 PM flyback: it's just getting the data off a semi dead hd
08:55 PM flyback: you need the machine to be solid
08:55 PM flyback: you might only get 1 read chance
08:55 PM veegee: I really wonder what's going on with ZoL these days
08:55 PM flyback: once you get the file made
08:55 PM veegee: BTRFS is honestly totally fine
08:55 PM flyback: you are gold
08:56 PM flyback: you can copy the file
08:56 PM flyback: run dos file recover tools
08:56 PM flyback: wtf ever you want
08:56 PM flyback: but for the initital transfer off the dying media
08:56 PM flyback: you need solid hw, ecc
08:56 PM flyback: for hd's
08:56 PM flyback: floppies and tapes and cdr's you don't need ecc cause you can do multiple passes an checksum
08:56 PM flyback: but hd's you never know when it's going to breath it's last
08:57 PM veegee: Yeah I do RAID10/mirrored vdevs
08:57 PM flyback: bTRFS had issues with it's own raid and on top of mdadm
08:57 PM veegee: Enterprise grade SAS disks
08:57 PM flyback: so I just used raid 10 and checksum everything
08:57 PM veegee: There's also this: https://bcachefs.org/ which I'm following closely
08:57 PM flyback: veegee but seriously hp and del both make low end servers that aren't bad
08:57 PM veegee: Use T10 DIF
08:58 PM flyback: sw raid but you just bypass it and run sw raid orzfs anyways etc
08:58 PM veegee: Get used enterprise gear, that's what I do for my office
08:58 PM flyback: well these are good also
08:58 PM flyback: ecc etc
08:58 PM veegee: I have a couple of DL380 G9 and LSI 9300 series SAS cards
08:58 PM _unreal_: soomeone's been busy since I took a shower
08:58 PM veegee: and all SAS drives with T10 DIF end to end integrity protection
08:59 PM veegee: and BTRFS running on top of that
08:59 PM flyback: https://buy.hpe.com/us/en/servers/proliant-microserver/proliant-microserver/proliant-microserver/hpe-proliant-microserver-gen10/p/1009955118
08:59 PM flyback: lsi are the best
08:59 PM _unreal_: veegee, do you know anything about tessel 2 microcontrollers?
08:59 PM flyback: you can sw mod them to be totally naked sas/sata
08:59 PM flyback: no caching etc
08:59 PM flyback: _unreal_, I told you 12 times
08:59 PM flyback: but you are too drunk
08:59 PM veegee: _unreal_ sorry no not those specific ones. But I know all about PIC/AVR/MIPS
08:59 PM flyback: it's the foundation cpu in esp32/esp8266
09:00 PM veegee: it's not really a software mod, they have official non-RAID firmware
09:00 PM flyback: veegee, the shit backblaze does it awesome too
09:00 PM veegee: you can choose to run them as a SAS controller or a RAID controller
09:00 PM flyback: they went away from sata port multipliers cause the early ones sucked
09:00 PM veegee: SATA itself is trash
09:00 PM veegee: no idea why it exists
09:01 PM flyback: but since marvel started making them and many card makers
09:01 PM flyback: they went back
09:01 PM veegee: SAS or bust
09:01 PM flyback: bah
09:01 PM veegee: fuck sata
09:01 PM flyback: sata isn't bad
09:01 PM flyback: but I agree sas is better
09:01 PM flyback: veegee did you see the thing on dropbox and smr drives
09:01 PM veegee: yes
09:01 PM flyback: shingled magnetic recording
09:01 PM * _unreal_ clings to is SCSI he never uses
09:01 PM veegee: SMR drives are fine if you know what you're doing
09:01 PM flyback: they have a ata command set/sas set for smr
09:01 PM flyback: inn linux and fbsd
09:01 PM flyback: yep
09:02 PM flyback: as well as zfs and btrfs and ext4
09:02 PM flyback: you can make those optimize around how the drives are
09:02 PM veegee: facebook has their own bare super thing "filesystem" for SMR which streams directly to the drive
09:02 PM veegee: SMR makes sense for that
09:02 PM flyback: SMR is fine for backup and cold storage
09:02 PM flyback: and bulk linear
09:02 PM veegee: I wouldn't use hard drives for cold storage
09:02 PM _unreal_: funny thing is back in the late 90's I had a scsi 10k RPM HD setup that I still have. and back then it BLEW everyone away at lan parties
09:02 PM veegee: I only trust tape for cold storage
09:03 PM veegee: too many things can go wrong with drives
09:03 PM flyback: nothing wron with that mindset
09:03 PM veegee: and the helium ones will leak and fail for sure
09:04 PM flyback: yeah I am not a fan of helium ones
09:05 PM flyback: plus it's damn expensive
09:05 PM veegee: for the capacity, not really
09:05 PM flyback: they want to start restricting ballons etc even
09:05 PM veegee: they're similar to enterprise air drives
09:05 PM flyback: cause of scarse helium sources
09:07 PM flyback: I swear there's a phantom bug in ubuntu installer with squashfs and cd/dvd media
09:07 PM flyback: been there 20 yrs
09:07 PM flyback: rock solid drives
09:07 PM flyback: sata ports
09:07 PM flyback: many pieces of hw over the yrs
09:08 PM flyback: will still abort out with squashfs errors during install
09:08 PM flyback: even if the disc went thru a self check
09:08 PM flyback: unfortunitely this one box using for data recovery has early usb rev booting and it's picky
09:08 PM flyback: so I had to burn a disc
09:09 PM flyback: the hw is ubuntu 18 capable because I had the hd in there from the old 32 bit only hw it replaced
09:09 PM flyback: but had to reload to get 64 bit version
09:09 PM flyback: I kept on ubuntu server 16 because of
09:09 PM flyback: a) filesystem recovery tool that doesn't work past 16.04
09:09 PM flyback: b) one recovery box was 32 bit (not anymore) :)
09:10 PM flyback: a) can run in a vm or use phroot etc
09:10 PM flyback: since it's just a tool to scan a ddrescue log and tell you what files are in unreadable sectors
09:10 PM flyback: it doesn't do any writing etc
09:10 PM flyback: ugh
09:11 PM flyback: I setup my old quad opteron 840 board to replace the one recovery hw and it died the day I finished the setup
09:11 PM flyback: :P
09:11 PM flyback: between random hw issues and ups issues I can't win
09:11 PM flyback: that pe840 has a really annoying bus
09:11 PM flyback: dell forced the sata ports to be ide mode only
09:11 PM flyback: this is actually better for data recovery
09:11 PM flyback: with one fatal flaw
09:11 PM flyback: because it emulates master/slave ide mode
09:12 PM flyback: this means the sata ports are paired
09:12 PM flyback: so if you put your os drive on the pair with a dying drive
09:12 PM flyback: it will hang the os drive dead
09:12 PM flyback: cause everythin assumes you couldn't multitask with master/slave in ide
09:12 PM flyback: including linux
09:13 PM flyback: that's why the temp storage is four sata drives attached to a seperate sata or sas/sata card
09:13 PM flyback: to avoid any controller hangs
09:19 PM miss0r: 'evening
09:25 PM skunkworks: veegee: what hardware to 'build your own?' I did that a long long time ago with supermicro motherboards.
09:26 PM veegee: skunkworks I would say go AMD Epyc Rome. Any of the Supermicro or Gigabyte server boards are fine
09:26 PM veegee: Intel is trash
09:26 PM skunkworks: Gasp!
09:27 PM skunkworks: ;)
09:30 PM skunkworks: what is a good source for server cases? with lets say 24 drive bays?
09:36 PM cgi: does anyone know how to find a good hepa filter - price vs performance optimized?
09:36 PM cgi: perhaps someone bought one recently and did that research.
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: what size, flow etc?
09:38 PM cgi: CaptHindsight, I am looking to build a small air filter for my workspace
09:39 PM flyback: supermicro are nice cases
09:39 PM miss0r: I'm standing here pondering about some workholding for a workpiece I will be replicating 10 times.. It needs to be machined on all surfaces. This proto type was fixed with super glue during the first operation where the outside contour was cut together with all the heat sink fins, then it was flipped around and the pocket was cut. I am looking for a fast & repeatable way of doing this without super glue :) (i.e.
09:39 PM miss0r: not fast nor repeatable) https://imgur.com/a/EpVV4a0
09:39 PM miss0r: I'm open for suggestions
09:40 PM cgi: CaptHindsight, something smaller than 12"
09:40 PM norias: miss0r: window frame with tabs
09:40 PM miss0r: norias: Would be an option, except the rawstock is only 5mm oversize all around.
09:41 PM norias: and that's why i don't buy stock until i have a plan
09:41 PM miss0r: I guess I'm thinking along the lines of form jaws or something :)
09:41 PM miss0r: norias: Hehe, this is based on 'what stock I have around' :)
09:41 PM norias: how much extra on the Z
09:42 PM miss0r: 0.5mm
09:42 PM norias: ouch
09:42 PM norias: uh..
09:43 PM norias: fits in a vise?
09:43 PM miss0r: yeah
09:43 PM miss0r: well... the vise can clamp on it, but it hangs out waay too much for a stable cut.
09:43 PM norias: ok
09:44 PM norias: i'd make a clamp down fixture
09:44 PM miss0r: usualy I do oneofs where it is okay to use a sacrificial alu support and glue the part to that
09:44 PM norias: two pins along the back, one on the left
09:44 PM miss0r: Indeed.. what would you do about the external contour then?
09:44 PM norias: mill one short side, three radii and one long side + side one features
09:45 PM * miss0r shuts up and listens
09:45 PM norias: flip, other side features, fourth radius and one long side
09:46 PM norias: toggle clamps from the same side as the pins
09:46 PM miss0r: hmm..
09:46 PM miss0r: I guess I'd need to do the top surface in steps as well, as the clamps needs to be moved
09:46 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: stand alone or rackmount or?
09:46 PM norias: true, i didn't think of that
09:47 PM miss0r: which makes it icky :D
09:47 PM norias: ok, so use the pin fixture to just do the outside
09:49 PM miss0r: hmm. and then have a seprate setup where you just clamp the part in some softjaws to do top/bottom?
09:50 PM miss0r: meh... My vise is a poor choice for softjaws
09:50 PM miss0r: I guess I'll just have to use some pretty damn huge parallels
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2510209.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=Netapp+DS4243&_sacat=0
09:51 PM norias: depends on how good you are
09:52 PM norias: you can do the areas around the holes in the same setup as the outside
09:52 PM norias: then clamp down on those areas to do the fin side
09:53 PM miss0r: I'm not claiming to be a guru, but I'm not about to shy away from that... I'm just wondering what is the fastest solution with the best repeatability. parallelism is not critical between the two large flats, but I don't want to make a wedge/banana either
09:54 PM Elmo40: miss0r, what is the stock material dimensions compared to final size?
09:54 PM miss0r: which can easily become an issue with machinist jacks supporting the stickout from the vise
09:55 PM Elmo40: i see. sorry. only +5mm
09:55 PM miss0r: Elmo40: stock 355x160x15mm, final product 350x155x14.5mm
09:55 PM CaptHindsight: Valen: staying away from smoke?
09:56 PM miss0r: and the 14.5 is +/- 0.5mm (realy not critical)
09:57 PM cgi: CaptHindsight, any suggestions for hepa filters?
09:57 PM miss0r: An idea is starting to form in my head...
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: cgi: amazon or similar
09:58 PM cgi: CaptHindsight, how do I compare how much filteration will it actually do?
09:58 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: rack mount.
09:58 PM skunkworks: yes
09:58 PM Elmo40: miss0r, you have T-slots?
09:59 PM miss0r: beefy softjaws that can handle the stickout from the vise (40x40mm alu stock) that can clamp the outside contour of the part but only graps the part by the 'fins'. That way I can clamp the workpiece in a regular vise & do the cooling fin side(top only) flip it into the softjaws and complete the bottom and the outside contours
09:59 PM miss0r: Elmo40: Yeah
09:59 PM Elmo40: i have an idea. 3 dowel pins and wedge clamps. we did it all the time on even thinner and wider parts made from Aluminum.
09:59 PM Elmo40: https://images.bonanzastatic.com/afu/images/3c6a/58e9/1b08_5145660964/s-l1600.jpg
09:59 PM Elmo40: these, with dowl pins on the other side
09:59 PM Elmo40: or bolted down stops
09:59 PM miss0r: yeah. I have a few sets of those(simular)
09:59 PM Elmo40: or these
09:59 PM Elmo40: https://mk0cnccookbookgxcner.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/MiteeBiteEccentric.jpg
10:00 PM Elmo40: even thinner. but you have 14mm. that is plenty for the first option
10:00 PM miss0r: yeah. :) What do you think of my softjaw idea as listed above?
10:01 PM Elmo40: not my preferred method.
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: cgi: I never see any real ratings on small stuff, just things like room size for complete units
10:02 PM Elmo40: it leaves a lot in the open, susceptible to vibrations in the middle area that isnt touching anything. maybe add little jacks in the middle to prevent vibes?
10:02 PM cgi: CaptHindsight, https://www.amazon.com/LEVOIT-Purifier-Replacement-Activated-LV-H132-RF/dp/B07V23KX9K
10:02 PM miss0r: Elmo40: Well, at some point I would need to do the outside contour.. and all the options with wedge clamps, eccentric clamps needs alot of moving around :)
10:03 PM miss0r: Elmo40: hmmm
10:03 PM Elmo40: after youve done everything, place on parallels (thin ones) and use the bolt holes to the T-slot nuts. It will lift enough to not touch the bed
10:03 PM miss0r: I guess I could just make larger grooves for the fins in the 40x40 alu. That way I'll only leave a 80mm wide part unsupported in the middle
10:03 PM Elmo40: or thick ones. doesnt matter
10:04 PM Elmo40: or another piece of AL that is -5mm or smaller than your finish size... anything. it is only a profile.
10:04 PM miss0r: I like working is cast iron better.. :) Alu sucks :D
10:05 PM Elmo40: whatever material tickles your fancy
10:05 PM Elmo40: Delrin
10:05 PM miss0r: (except the "cleaning up after the fact"-part)
10:05 PM Elmo40: cotton balls
10:05 PM Elmo40: old t-shirts
10:05 PM Elmo40: rubber boots...
10:05 PM miss0r: hehe; cotton balls & old t-shirts
10:05 PM CaptHindsight: cgi: carbon filters like those might be full in a day
10:05 PM * miss0r is thinking of soaking and freezing it...
10:05 PM Elmo40: anything rigid to hold the part flat but above the table
10:06 PM miss0r: Indeed
10:06 PM Elmo40: cgi, for smell or smoke removal?
10:09 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: https://www.newegg.com/norco-rpc-4224/p/N82E16811219038
10:09 PM CaptHindsight: China is closed until next month
10:11 PM roycroft: for less money you can get this:
10:11 PM roycroft: https://www.ebay.com/itm//143428185743
10:11 PM roycroft: it's better, ships now from the usa, and is full of stuff
10:14 PM cgi: Elmo40, ideally both ?
10:14 PM cgi: CaptHindsight, thanks! I do want something that can last a month
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: yes https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro-4U-BAREBONE-Server-BPN-SAS2-846EL1-24x-Trays-2x-P-S-W-Rails/173899195117 lots of used on ebay
10:16 PM roycroft: i've purchased at least three dozen machines from the seller in my link, and everything has been great - i've had a handful of minor problems, and a phone call or an email gets the problem fixed, usually the same day
10:16 PM roycroft: i'm sure there are other vendors who are just as good, but i don't know who they are
10:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://generalcarbon.com/facts-about-activated-carbon/activated-carbon-faq/
10:17 PM cgi: CaptHindsight, "contact us" for the best one :(
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.cabotcorp.com/solutions/products-plus/activated-carbon
10:19 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.cabotcorp.com/solutions/products-plus/activated-carbon/filterplates
10:19 PM cgi: CaptHindsight, now i need to choose from those 3 types + a hepa + ... complexity :)
10:22 PM CaptHindsight: once activated carbon is out of the bag it just keeps on adsorbing, so if you want it to last longer you have to seal it back up
10:24 PM cgi: CaptHindsight, Perhaps I should just stick with Hepa?
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: hepa filters particles, activated carbon filters fumes
10:27 PM CaptHindsight: sawdust = hepa, benzine = activated carbon
10:28 PM CaptHindsight: animal dander = hepa, VOC's (gasoline, solvents, etc) = activated carbon
10:31 PM cgi: I can live with hepa then :)
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: box with a fan and some Chinaco filters
10:54 PM _unreal_: ve7it, you live?
10:55 PM infornography: <3
11:00 PM veegee: I need to mill some T slot nuts for my mill.
11:01 PM veegee: They're expensive if you buy them, like $20 for 5...
11:01 PM veegee: What steel should I use? Is cold rolled C1018 appropriate?
11:03 PM _unreal_: veegee, if your making T nuts any steel should be fine
11:03 PM veegee: I need to learn how to DIY heat treat
11:03 PM Elmo40: cgi, a filter lasts as long as you want it to last... the efficiency and flow will be affected by usage ;-)
11:03 PM veegee: what steel are grade 2 nuts made of generally?
11:03 PM _unreal_: veegee, as in harden?
11:03 PM Elmo40: veegee, mild
11:03 PM Tom_L: veegee, lead
11:04 PM Elmo40: Tom_L, grade 2, not grade 0.2 :-P
11:04 PM Tom_L: :)
11:04 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, LEAD is my fave to harden
11:04 PM veegee: _unreal_ yeah hardening, tempering, etc.
11:04 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wmyTCGB0l8&feature=youtu.be
11:04 PM _unreal_: veegee, hardening is easy
11:04 PM Tom_L: baby steps with my fpga board
11:04 PM _unreal_: heat till its glowing hot
11:05 PM _unreal_: drop in water
11:05 PM Elmo40: cant harden mild steel. not enough carbon in it.
11:05 PM Elmo40: _unreal_, ???
11:05 PM Elmo40: oil
11:05 PM _unreal_: Elmo40, mild steel you use water
11:05 PM _unreal_: low carbon
11:05 PM Elmo40: i thought we were hardening
11:05 PM _unreal_: high carbon you use oil
11:05 PM Elmo40: and mild steel does not benefit.
11:05 PM veegee: Elmo40 apparently C1080 has good case hardening properties?
11:06 PM Elmo40: useless for a T-nut
11:06 PM Elmo40: it is like 3D printing people... why make a TPU o-ring when you can buy 50 for $0.50?
11:06 PM veegee: Elmo40 you mean C1080 is useless for a T nut or hardening in general is useless for a T nut?
11:06 PM Elmo40: just buy the damn things.
11:06 PM veegee: they're very expensive...
11:06 PM Elmo40: why are they $20 for 5?
11:07 PM Elmo40: go to an auction ;-)
11:07 PM veegee: Yeah I don't want to wait 60 days for them to ship from china
11:07 PM veegee: https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/metals/alloy-steel-rectangular-bar/
11:07 PM veegee: 4130 or 4140 better?
11:08 PM veegee: Those are "medium carbon" steels right?
11:09 PM _unreal_: veegee, you can not HARDEN low carbon steel but you can make it harder
11:09 PM veegee: ah ok
11:09 PM veegee: I guess I'll try the 4130 or 4140 if they have it then
11:10 PM _unreal_: the people who are the BS FULL OF IT BLAL BLAA BLAA people will jump up and down if you use the "wrong" term. so YES you can harden mild steel
11:10 PM _unreal_: just not even close to high carbon steel
11:11 PM _unreal_: by comparason