#linuxcnc Logs
Jan 19 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:31 AM Elmo40: _unreal_, where did you get this belt?
12:36 AM Elmo40: i mean pulleys
01:10 AM _unreal_: well I'm heaing to bed
02:28 AM Deejay: moin
03:21 AM nvz: yeah I'm not real clear on wiring this thing up it'd seem.. if I'm counting this right.. the board has two pins for each motor.. the motor driver has like 12.. and neither has documentation it'd seem, neither has the pins labelled the same, and from shit I'm seeing some people show all the negative pins jumped together, some show all the positive jumped together.. idk wtf is going on :P
03:22 AM nvz: most these controller boards out there don't even have names/models you can look up
03:25 AM p0g0: nvz, in general (and I have no idea about your specific case) each coil in a motor gets two pins, many motors have 2+ coils, so it is common to have 4+ wires per motor if it has more than a single coil. If you look at the motor driver board, the chips with the heat sinks are labeled, and those are usually what gets discussed.
03:26 AM p0g0: Mow, if you, by pins, mean the PWM'd voltage leads, and there are ground leads- those two pins may drive two coils.
03:27 AM p0g0: eh
03:27 AM p0g0: *Now
03:27 AM nvz: https://www.509maker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/One.png is my stepper driver (Wantai DQ542MA) using 4 wire Nema 23 motors of the same brand.. and this is one of the boards I have: http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/616/776/001/1001776616_258.jpg?size=133901&height=537&width=857&hash=5317a193b7256780965359f8172b1f5a
03:28 AM nvz: near as I can tell only 2 of wires need actually be used specifically for each motor. the rest are all jumped from the power rail or enable or such.. I'm just not real sure cause there is no documentation :P
03:29 AM p0g0: well those songle relays are just switches, they won't drive a PWM signal, and I don't know enough to help much by looking at that board.
03:29 AM nvz: yeah well then I know significantly more than you do :D
03:30 AM p0g0: No surprise there...
03:30 AM nvz: the pins down the short side, opposite the parallel port, are for the motors.. the realys are for turning things on and off
03:30 AM p0g0: yeah. the p9-p16 set.
03:30 AM nvz: I got a board with 3 relays cause I plan on starting out with two different tools and expanding down the road to who knows what
03:31 AM nvz: p0g0: yeah well thats only like 8 pins not counting the power pins and suppose to be able to drive 6 axis.. so..
03:32 AM nvz: I have nfc whats going on.. idk if it just doesn't matter, I set it all up in the config to whatever I want it to be or what :P
03:33 AM nvz: when I ran linuxcnc I didnt even see any means of detecting/selecting my device or port or anything.. which I'd seen in videos I watched weeks ago so hell if I know :D
03:33 AM p0g0: fwiw, and salted with caveat and ignorance- that board seems to lack the high amp driver chips- not enough heat sinks etc. I'd wonder what it can really do.
03:33 AM nvz: that board doesnt contain the drivers
03:33 AM nvz: the drivers are seperate
03:34 AM p0g0: ah, that makes me happier.
03:34 AM nvz: the drivers are the big f'n things I posted in the first picture :P
03:34 AM nvz: have their own heatsinks and stuff :P
03:34 AM p0g0: the one that 509'd on me...
03:34 AM nvz: those I get.. they're clearly labelled
03:34 AM p0g0: err, timed out, whatever that error is in html
03:35 AM p0g0: OK
03:35 AM p0g0: what do you expect from the little songle board then?
03:35 AM nvz: its suppose to run the machine
03:36 AM nvz: the board I got with the motors didnt have shit on it
03:36 AM nvz: it was basically just a parallel port breakout board.. bare as can be
03:36 AM p0g0: the tri-state LPT port stuff is old, so I'm not sure.
03:36 AM nvz: I bought the one with 3 relays so I could turn on/off my tools and such
03:37 AM p0g0: Yeah, those songles are only fit to drive a larger relay, they don't persist well with too much load.
03:38 AM nvz: but 12pins x 4 drivers thats 48 pins total..
03:38 AM nvz: so obviously I'd either need 2 or more parallel ports or I dont need all the pins on the driver going to their own pins on the controller
03:38 AM p0g0: ahh, those "P" labels are lpt line pins
03:39 AM p0g0: OK
03:39 AM nvz: near as I can tell it only needs two pins to each driver
03:39 AM nvz: the step and direction
03:39 AM nvz: the rest is all just jumping the power/ground or some crap
03:40 AM p0g0: well, it looks like there's nothing to that board but the breakout and the 3 pins dedicated to the songles.
03:41 AM p0g0: So whatever LPT driver logic you have has to jive with the pin assignments you make- no docs will make that interesting
03:41 AM nvz: seems like the single relay boards I see a lot have a white connector you attach to that has the step/dir/en/5v+ and all you need beyond that is the 24v/comm or such going to the driver
03:42 AM p0g0: I recall a lot of old LPT drivers out there too, it's an old tech, so finding the one that runs that board...
03:43 AM p0g0: Well, I ran out of usefulness several minutes ago, when the world wakes up, maybe real talent can help.
03:44 AM p0g0: usefulness and coffee...
03:44 AM nvz: yeah well.. I'm in no rush.. I started winging it at the shop yesterday.. then just went to bed.. now I'm waking up around like 4:30a..
03:44 AM nvz: just trying to see if it makes any more sense to me after a good night's sleep
03:45 AM nvz: and it doesn't really..
03:45 AM nvz: short of getting out a magnifying glass and looking at each IC, getting schematics for them all and the traces on the boards..etc..
03:45 AM nvz: and trying to reverse-engineer wth this stuff does, idk cause it came with no sort of instruction, schematic, or meaningful information :P
03:46 AM nvz: I'm fairly sure these two components will work together in the manner I would like them to.. its just a matter of how
03:46 AM p0g0: well, I think you'll find that there is a direct link from an LPT pin# to those "P" labeled leads.
03:47 AM p0g0: so, whatever logic you are using to drive the lpt port should have some Big Hints about what the pins should connect to.
03:47 AM nvz: yes well I figured as much.. with exception of stuff related to p2-p4 which is for the relays
03:47 AM p0g0: yep
03:47 AM nvz: yeah I have nfc about "logic" :P
03:48 AM p0g0: iirc, LPT ports are tri-state 12/0/-12,and the OS's link to those ports is ancient- you should finds some logic that just tosses bit switch settings out as ascii char sets.
03:49 AM nvz: yeah I doubt that would help
03:49 AM p0g0: well, I bet the board is a clone of something old and documented.
03:50 AM p0g0: And it should help to know how the "P" leads are expected to wire up.
03:50 AM nvz: idk.. I am not entirely sure it even matters
03:50 AM p0g0: the LPT port has been used to drive stuff for 30+ years
03:50 AM nvz: cause in the linuxcnc settings it has configuration for all that
03:50 AM p0g0: (&printers, even longer)
03:50 AM nvz: it ASKS you which are the this and that ports
03:51 AM p0g0: OK
03:51 AM nvz: I just don't really understand any of it, it all looks vaguely like shit I understand.. its just not :P
03:52 AM p0g0: Well, if you have a rig old enough to have an LPT port, I'd guess you can sort it out with the board, a centronics parallel cable, and a voltmeter.
03:54 AM p0g0: basically, light up an lpt port pin, assure that the same "P" leads is lit, and wire that "P" lead to whatever you want to switch with the lpt port pin.
03:54 AM nvz: yeah well my digital multimeter I ordered hadn't came yet.. which is another reason I wasnt all to comfortable winging this..
03:54 AM nvz: all I have right now is an analog and those things never make me too comfortable
03:54 AM p0g0: you could fake it, but I'd want a meter.
03:55 AM p0g0: analog is fine if it's in the measurable range.
03:55 AM p0g0: It may have some drift etc, but all you want is the binary, hot/ not hot.
03:55 AM nvz: yeah.. problem with analog is you can't really tell what its doing short of yes/no answers without an accompanying abacus :P
03:56 AM nvz: is there resistance here? is there voltage?
03:56 AM nvz: when you get into questions like how much, is it AC or DC? etc.. you need a digital or to sit there and use a rosetta stone, and abacus..etc
03:57 AM p0g0: well, I am an old guy, analog is Real Familiar...
03:58 AM nvz: yeah its vaguely familiar to me too.. familiar with being a pita.. having to know exactly what setting to set it on all the time, then knowing which part of the gague to read and which multiplier and formula to use..
03:58 AM nvz: its better than nothing
03:58 AM nvz: but they created ditials for a reason :P
04:00 AM nvz: if I'd known that meter wasn't gonna be here by now, I'd have just bought one locally :P
04:00 AM nvz: cause really the digital one I ordered is of a cheaper variety too.. but it'll at least give me a floating point value straight up
04:00 AM p0g0: you don't have anything cute like a scope, bus pirate, or DSO?
04:01 AM nvz: na.. could get access to more stuff if I needed it
04:01 AM nvz: I been saying for years I was gonna get an in-circuit ESR meter.. and that never happened :P
04:02 AM nvz: so logic probes, scopes, etc.. are fancier than that
04:02 AM p0g0: they've gotten Right Cheap tho.
04:19 AM nvz: p0g0: as for the /logic/ the guy whos plans I based off of, he used this board https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71KpdeUi3VL._AC_SX522_.jpg which has a single relay.. and as I said, 4 pins clearly labelled for each driver.. 5v/step/dir/en
04:20 AM nvz: the /logic/ in that case seems to be the texas instruments mc244 or something
04:20 AM nvz: which is the same two chips on my board
04:20 AM nvz: https://www.diybuilds.ca/uploads/1/1/6/7/116702907/cnc_wiring_diagram.pdf
04:21 AM nvz: is his wiring diagram
04:21 AM nvz: all he
04:21 AM nvz: all he's jumping together is the com/24v
04:22 AM nvz: which I can't do that cause 1) I have 36V and 2) only enough amps to drive 2 of the 4.. so I'm gonna be running the Y and cloned Y off one and the Z and X off the other
04:23 AM nvz: and that bit of it, I grok
04:23 AM nvz: what I can't quite figure out is.. should I be jumping the positive or negative side of the remaining pins together.. and where to hook up the ones I dont jump
04:24 AM p0g0: often you have common grounds
04:24 AM nvz: that one picture I posted shows all the positives jumped and the Step-, En-, and Dir- all going to the controller
04:24 AM nvz: then other pictures show it the other way around
04:24 AM p0g0: but not always.
04:25 AM nvz: the mark9ing on the driver seems to indicate the + pins are all just 5v
04:25 AM nvz: where the - pins are the signal
04:26 AM nvz: and I'm not sure if I even /need/ the enable pins at all even
04:26 AM p0g0: websites that hate TOR are tedious...the diybuilds site won't load....
04:27 AM nvz: yeah idk... use of tor seems a bit ridiculous to me.. I tried it a few times and it never really seemed to offer any sort of advantage equivalent to its disadvantages
04:28 AM nvz: I use riseup vpn at times where I may have an issue, like a DCMA notice that'd be sent to my ISP or something
04:28 AM p0g0: I am a fan of privacy, being an old guy that grew up with it.
04:29 AM nvz: yeah.. well I'm right on the cusp between the worlds..
04:29 AM nvz: and while I'd prefer privacy, I also realize the difference between effective and non-effective measures
04:30 AM nvz: tor routes traffic through many different servers, you have no idea where your end point will be, even across multiple different links.. you can wind up coming out of two different places on the same site
04:30 AM nvz: which is problematic in a vast number of ways, and is all built on the idea this insures anonymity. which it doesnt
04:30 AM p0g0: yep, and I find it fascinating to see the geo-fencing in action, and what bias gets handed out by region.
04:30 AM nvz: it does little more than a single endpoint vpn
04:30 AM nvz: which has far less drawbacks
04:31 AM nvz: shit has grown so complicated in this day and age, that its just not feasible anymore for a set it and forget it kinda solution
04:32 AM nvz: you have to be wholly aware of everything you do and use, or you're not really achieving privacy
04:32 AM p0g0: It's not your grandfather's BITNet
04:32 AM nvz: doesn't matter how convoluted the route may be that take the packets, if the packets themselves contain information about their origin :P
04:33 AM p0g0: sure.
04:33 AM nvz: sure if you disable all scripting, cookies, use tor.. you are /fairly/ anon.. but you're also nearly crippled on the web
04:33 AM p0g0: Hmm, I get by.
04:33 AM nvz: I wish for 99% of things we could go back to the simpler web :P
04:34 AM nvz: you look at things like pastebin.com for example.. no f'n reason in hell a site to paste small bits of text should be using TLS/SSL, javascript, cookies, etc, etc..
04:34 AM nvz: all just annoyances getting in the way of the functionality
04:34 AM p0g0: if you, like me, look at a page source, it is ghastly these days.
04:35 AM p0g0: well, and for the poor SOB's on dial up or such, a huge waste of time and bandwidth...
04:35 AM nvz: yeah.. its always been pretty bad but it used to be due to evolving "standards" and browser implementations
04:36 AM nvz: now its more due to the browsers being a full OS inside a VM and everyone buying and selling data
04:36 AM nvz: I'm willing to bet if I put the chemical makup, full audio profile..etc.. of my recent flatulance out there, someone would buy it..
04:36 AM nvz: heh
04:36 AM nvz: thats how ridiculous the data market has gotten
04:36 AM p0g0: I live, literally, 1000' from a digital divide- I have fiber pulled to my door, and the next door folks, just across the river are AT&T clients, and they will never get fiber.
04:37 AM p0g0: nvz, "Le Petomane", you are more right than you think.
04:38 AM nvz: I may be a total n00b when it comes to this CNC crap.. but I know a bit about electronics and technology :P
04:38 AM p0g0: The folks across the river suffer hugely from that slow connect- they get charged for the spam, and it slows their browsing way down- not using an ad and script blocker, for them, is silly- they do much better without all the cruft.
04:39 AM nvz: I'm 36, grew up in a tv/vcr repair shop.. so I know a bit about electronics, and I been online for most of my life
04:40 AM p0g0: We expect great things...
04:40 AM p0g0: I had a BITNet account, fwiw- that should date me pretty well.
04:41 AM nvz: I'm just gonna need some additional guidance from someone more experienced with wiring this thing up.. cause I don't grasp how this all works fully and no one bit of it is well documented and even if it was its like round pegs and square holes
04:41 AM nvz: and I dont know enough to know what the big DONTs are to avoid frying something through trial and error :P
04:44 AM p0g0: I hope you find your saviour, I'm outta here for a while.
05:07 AM nvz: I should probably have learned to speak chinese
05:08 AM nvz: cause what little you can find is badly traslated :P
05:08 AM nvz: cause I'm pretty sure I don't wanna hook my limit switches up "by mouth"
05:09 AM nvz: I ordered the other 1 relay card too.. it has a bit clearer wiring ..
05:59 AM jthornton: morning
06:00 AM XXCoder: yo
06:02 AM jymmmm: Good Morning folks
06:02 AM XXCoder: yo^2
06:03 AM XXCoder: jt today i wanted to test cutting (not engraving) cardboard but bleh dont feel up to it lol
06:03 AM XXCoder: it also higher fire risk
06:04 AM XXCoder: wait wait wait new roberts video
06:04 AM methods_: just soak the cardboard in your bathtub first
06:04 AM XXCoder: that insane precision guy
06:04 AM jthornton: do you put the laser on a fire proof surface to use it?
06:05 AM XXCoder: jt nope no room really for it yet. need to figure how. i might get folding table and some sort of fireproof surface.
06:06 AM methods_: https://www.amazon.com/SMART-HOME-CHEF-Protecting-Splatter/dp/B07H2W37JJ
06:06 AM methods_: fireproof grill mat
06:06 AM XXCoder: i also need to get some sort of fire exuster (cant spell the word)
06:06 AM XXCoder: is it good for laser?
06:07 AM methods_: https://www.amazon.com/ABN-Heavy-Duty-Fiberglass-Retardant-Blanket/dp/B079P5MZ6F
06:07 AM methods_: if you catch on fire just wrap it up in that blanket
06:08 AM methods_: you can probably get those weld blankets thru your work way cheaper than amazon though
06:08 AM methods_: you do still work for that cnc shop right
06:09 AM XXCoder: we dont weld at work.
06:09 AM XXCoder: well there is special pipe welder but thats for one job and one job only
06:09 AM methods_: well i'm sure whoever gets your shop supplies can get weld blankets
06:09 AM methods_: and you probably get discounts from your work
06:09 AM XXCoder: yeah but not sure if that will be good surface
06:10 AM methods_: hell yeah i like your style
06:10 AM methods_: i say let it burn
06:10 AM methods_: a good surface is way more important
06:11 AM XXCoder: lol well im looking for combination of surface where I can use cardboard, paper and tape, as well as wood
06:11 AM XXCoder: fireproof, resistant to laserr
06:11 AM XXCoder: though maybe wood block covered with that sheet hmmm
06:12 AM methods_: hmmmm i wonder what could fit those reqmnts
06:12 AM methods_: you've stumbled upon a real conundrum
06:12 AM XXCoder: lol
06:12 AM XXCoder: lovely saracism
06:12 AM XXCoder: you use those for your laser machine?
06:13 AM methods_: no we just have cement floors
06:13 AM methods_: and metal slag pans
06:13 AM XXCoder: hmmm blocks might work
06:14 AM XXCoder: with cover of that
06:14 AM XXCoder: thanks methods_ :)
06:14 AM methods_: how big is your laser?
06:14 AM XXCoder: tiny. longest dimension being 1.3 foot or so
06:15 AM methods_: why not get a plate of steel to set it on
06:15 AM XXCoder: bit concerned about refections
06:15 AM methods_: is flat and fireproof, too your laser at least
06:15 AM methods_: paint it black
06:15 AM XXCoder: thats why im thinking concerete, it could take lasers easily
06:16 AM methods_: and mill scale on a chunk of 1/4-1/2" steel is hardly reflective
06:16 AM XXCoder: its not like its 40w like co2 machines
06:18 AM XXCoder: ehh dunno if expense of that is worth it
06:18 AM XXCoder: its $100 machine with $30 upgrade of cnc board lol
06:18 AM XXCoder: it will get extensions of wires so I can properly route em evenually. wires is so short!
06:33 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: Corigated cardboard is tougher to laser cut due to the adhesive
06:33 AM XXCoder: yeah? hmmm 2w is surpsing powerful. I was using onlu 20% power and still cutting though top layer sometimes
06:33 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: Sometimes it's better to focus 50% into the cardboard
06:34 AM XXCoder: and move faster?
06:34 AM jymmmm: Not necessarily
06:34 AM XXCoder: still havent probed upper speed, fastest i tried was 20000 mm/m
06:34 AM jymmmm: Mind you, I have a 900 CFM dust collector on my laser
06:35 AM XXCoder: yeah that was another concern of mine. I cant smell and im worried about co from laser burns
06:35 AM XXCoder: as well as co2 of course
06:36 AM jymmmm: Well, it's mostly to evac the smoke/dust
06:37 AM XXCoder: i guess its in superfine class
06:43 AM nvz: can anyone give me some guidance wiring this up? https://i.imgur.com/cU1yYkm.jpg
06:43 AM XXCoder: hmm yet another thing to be concerned with, since my lungs is bad.
06:44 AM nvz: near as I can tell, I need to jump half the pins on these drivers and idk if I can/need to hookup the enable stuff in this case at all
06:44 AM XXCoder: nvz most is pretty strightforward. umm i thinknyou want to wire it negative for enable and such. that way if for example wire breaks for limit switch it wont run rather than cant detect trigger
06:45 AM nvz: yes wel the point is.. my board doesnt say dir/step/enable or anything
06:45 AM XXCoder: you can connect all enable + to + and connect enable - to enable pin
06:45 AM XXCoder: looking
06:45 AM nvz: it doesn't have any enable pins.. it just has 8 pins indicated for the motors.. i.e. 2 pins each
06:45 AM nvz: labelled by their LPT number I guess, nothing more
06:46 AM XXCoder: your BOb is very different from mine. but yours is better since more pins but harder to wire
06:47 AM nvz: yeah.. amazon.com/gp/product/B0093Y897A/
06:47 AM nvz: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0093Y897A/
06:48 AM nvz: got one of those on order.. its what the guy used in teh plans I based mine off of.. its better labelled
06:48 AM nvz: but the one I got now has the same two TI chips on it
06:48 AM nvz: just has two extra relays and sucj
06:48 AM XXCoder: other picture on top right is more clear
06:49 AM XXCoder: just connect all enable wires to one of output and confgure low for enable
06:49 AM XXCoder: man that board have a LOT of inputs
06:49 AM nvz: yeah I figured I could probably wire all the enable together
06:50 AM nvz: and that either the positive or negative of the step/dir/en should all be wired together
06:50 AM XXCoder: if you dont use encoder you have 8 inputs
06:50 AM XXCoder: dir is all seperate
06:50 AM nvz: my first thought was the negative.. but the label on the drive controller seems to be different
06:51 AM XXCoder: after all you want x to be able to reverse direction seperate from y :)
06:51 AM nvz: my point is, lookin at that board I only have 8 pins.. p4,p5,p6,p7,p8,p9,p16,p17
06:51 AM nvz: I have 4 motors with 4 wires each, going to controllers with 12 pins
06:51 AM XXCoder: 3 outputs for dir
06:52 AM XXCoder: xy and z
06:52 AM nvz: Y is gonna be two motors
06:52 AM XXCoder: same direction or one is reversed?
06:52 AM nvz: one would need to be reversed
06:52 AM XXCoder: ouch then you need 4
06:52 AM nvz: to make the gantry move, one would have to be going the opposite way
06:53 AM XXCoder: so, one for enable, 4 dir for 4 steppers
06:53 AM XXCoder: thats 5 pins so far.
06:54 AM nvz: yeah.. the diagrams I see all show 4 pins on the controller jumped.. but it varies if its positive or negatice
06:54 AM nvz: my controllers seem to indicate that the positive is power, all those get jumped, and the - is the part that goes to the breakout board
06:55 AM XXCoder: well you can do dumb reverse wiring for second stepper
06:55 AM XXCoder: it being clone of first but with wires mirrored
06:55 AM XXCoder: thats one enable less and 4 stepper control less
06:56 AM XXCoder: need more amps since its powering 2 tho so thats bad
06:56 AM nvz: the other thing is I have to split the PSUs or wire them in parallel which idk if thats a good idea
06:56 AM XXCoder: how high power is your machine?
06:56 AM nvz: my 36V psus are only 360W each.. only enough to power 2 motors
06:56 AM XXCoder: can always do small psu each stepper
06:57 AM nvz: my motors are 4.2A max each..
06:57 AM XXCoder: easy to get cheap 5a 12 or 24v psus
06:57 AM XXCoder: build a rail powering all psus
06:57 AM nvz: I already got 4 PSUs in there.. heh.. as noted
06:58 AM XXCoder: then they indivually power stepper controllers
06:58 AM nvz: no, two do
06:58 AM nvz: the two 36V 360W 9.7A ones
06:58 AM XXCoder: cool :)
06:58 AM nvz: one is a 12V 30A which as of right now only powers the laser, and the 0-100V variable one for the 500W spinde
06:59 AM XXCoder: though you can use caps on controllers to prevent brownout at max motion on 2 axis at once
06:59 AM nvz: the variable one can be manually controlled or via pwm or such
06:59 AM XXCoder: not sure how to wire cap as I never did that
06:59 AM nvz: XXCoder: yeah thats a thought.. but 4.2A Max * 2 is 8.4A Max, the psus are rated for 9.7A
07:00 AM XXCoder: yeah should be enough though it have smoothing effect also
07:00 AM XXCoder: kills noise
07:00 AM nvz: so as long as the contorllers doesnt draw more than 1.3A off each PSU that should be enough
07:00 AM nvz: XXCoder: right.. its a good thought, but I;d imagine the controllers probably do that already
07:01 AM nvz: not that I /know/ since this shit is all chinese and doesnt have documentation :P
07:01 AM XXCoder: maybe since yours is better ones., mine is really cheapo tb6600s
07:01 AM nvz: yeah I wanted to get sligtly better stuff so we could expand more easily as needed
07:02 AM nvz: I was trying to get basic enough we could build off a simple documented design, and go slightly above that enough I could keep adding on without having to replace things
07:02 AM XXCoder: honestly MESA isnt that much more money
07:02 AM nvz: not sure what you mean by that
07:02 AM XXCoder: have you have many more pins
07:02 AM XXCoder: yo jthornton ?
07:03 AM jthornton: yo
07:03 AM XXCoder: im not expert on MESA, and there is many MESA options.
07:03 AM nvz: I was also debating if I should get a PCI parport card to toss in this machine
07:03 AM nvz: seems like there are applications for using two parports
07:03 AM XXCoder: jt help? :D I dont know enough about MESA options.
07:03 AM jthornton: the 7i96 is the most cost effective stepper card
07:03 AM nvz: and this machine has a PCIe16x I tossed a GPU into and a PCI slot
07:04 AM jthornton: https://mesaus.com/product/7i96/
07:04 AM XXCoder: thats bad picture heh
07:04 AM jthornton: yea
07:05 AM XXCoder: rows rows of pins
07:05 AM XXCoder: what is dipoint rows for?
07:05 AM jthornton: what?
07:06 AM jthornton: the IDC26 connector?
07:06 AM XXCoder: 3 of em, one looking like ide ribbon connector
07:06 AM jthornton: or the green ones
07:06 AM XXCoder: small one bottom and loger one to left of it
07:06 AM jthornton: the IDC26 pin header is for a daughter card
07:07 AM jthornton: the 6 pin header is hmmm I forget
07:07 AM XXCoder: i cant read it, looks specific use
07:07 AM jthornton: the green ones are pluggable screw terminals
07:07 AM XXCoder: well nvz there you go
07:07 AM jthornton: the manual would have a better photo
07:08 AM nvz: yeah well I'm not buying a $120 card.. I already have two and another on the way.. that didn't cost me half that for all 3
07:08 AM jthornton: hmm I didn't add the link to the manual
07:08 AM nvz: I just have two major issues with wiring up what I have now.. and one remains an issue no matter what I wire up
07:09 AM nvz: and that is what this crap means on the signal side of my controller
07:09 AM XXCoder: it was bit expensive for me too since mine is small router for fun and jhobby
07:09 AM XXCoder: but for production mesa is execellent
07:09 AM nvz: my instinct would be to jump all the negative and put the positive side of dir/pul/enbl to the board
07:09 AM nvz: but the controller SAYS on the case..
07:09 AM XXCoder: i remember neg being better for signaling but i dont really remember why
07:10 AM nvz: PUL+(+5V) Pul-(Pul) DIR+(+5V) DIR-(DIR) ENBL+(+5V) ENBL-(ENB)
07:10 AM XXCoder: its quite universal, all pins can be input output or control controllers
07:11 AM nvz: which makes me think you want to jump all the positive ones to a 5VDC line and have the Neg ones to the board
07:11 AM XXCoder: having huge number of pins means you can add so many features to machine. like coolant pump, door safety lock, so on
07:11 AM nvz: I mean the 5VDC+ is right there on the board too by the 8 pins for the motors
07:12 AM XXCoder: you plan to power all controllers from your BOB? trying to make sure I understood
07:12 AM nvz: and if that takes care of 3 of the 6 pins.. and the enables could all be wired to one pin somewhere.. that leaves me with only two more pins on the 6 of the signal side of the controller which go to the board
07:13 AM nvz: XXCoder: the SIGNAL side, sure.. thats the idea.. thats 5V low amps
07:13 AM XXCoder: ah signal. was thinking power + and - :) sorry for misunderstanding
07:13 AM nvz: XXCoder: the POWER side that the MOTOR hooks to, will be powered by a seperate 36VDC power supply.. one of those will power two drivers
07:13 AM nvz: did you LOOK at the picture? :P
07:13 AM XXCoder: yeah
07:14 AM nvz: https://i.imgur.com/cU1yYkm.jpg
07:14 AM XXCoder: controllers is essentally same as tb6600s
07:14 AM XXCoder: just more nicer
07:14 AM nvz: the top 6 pins on that controller are for the signal
07:14 AM nvz: the bottom 6 are for the power side that actually takes the power in and puts it out to the motors
07:14 AM nvz: that part I get..
07:14 AM XXCoder: indeed. that one is almost brainless simple
07:15 AM nvz: I put 36VDC +/- on the top two, and wire the 4 motor wires below it..
07:15 AM XXCoder: enable is ez. dir is strightforward but takes many pins
07:15 AM nvz: but the top half is what I'm not sure about
07:15 AM nvz: so these simpler ones they only have 3-4 pins rather than 6 for the signal side?
07:15 AM XXCoder: pul+ I think all just goes to +, and - is signal pulse so also uses 4 pins (for 4 steppers)
07:16 AM XXCoder: nah its same as tb6600s. just rusty on remembering since my cnc routers beem in storage for couple years now
07:16 AM nvz: yeah one picture I saw hade PUL+,DIR+,ENBL+ all wired together to 5VDC+
07:16 AM XXCoder: so you need 9 outputs
07:17 AM XXCoder: if you do a dummy inverse wiring for y reverse, you need 7 pins
07:17 AM nvz: then Pul-(Pul), DIR-(DIR), ENBL-(ENB) going to the controller board
07:17 AM nvz: idk.. for one I don't entirely grasp the need for 3 seperate signals and what they do
07:17 AM XXCoder: pulse is simply that, it says MOVE
07:18 AM XXCoder: dir is direction, it says what direction to move
07:18 AM XXCoder: enable is exactly that.
07:18 AM nvz: yeah.. but doesn't take a gemius to figure out how to get all 3 from 1
07:18 AM nvz: if there is noting there on 1 wire.. its not enabled. :P
07:18 AM nvz: if its positive ,then move.. that way..
07:19 AM nvz: if its negative, then move the other way :P
07:19 AM XXCoder: yeah thats why you must have seperate direction each axis
07:19 AM XXCoder: enable just needs one pin and you chain it to all controllers
07:19 AM nvz: what I'm saying is, that is also my understanding of pul/dir/en but its redundant and meaningless
07:20 AM XXCoder: in what way is it redundant?
07:20 AM nvz: that understanding is too basic, it doesnt explain why I need to tell it that it CAN move, it SHOULD move, and WHICH direction in three diffent places
07:20 AM nvz: when a simple -1, 0, 1 on a single wire.. says the same
07:21 AM nvz: if its no voltage, its to stop, if there is positive voltage go one way, if its negative go another
07:21 AM nvz: thats a one wire, one instruction kinda deal
07:21 AM XXCoder: its just not how controller works must have + or - no floating
07:21 AM nvz: not 6 wires
07:21 AM XXCoder: enable means machine constantly holds position. vital, expecially on z
07:21 AM XXCoder: since in some machines head would fall and crash
07:22 AM nvz: so "enabling" is electonic breaking
07:22 AM XXCoder: my machine is too light and too much preload to fall down
07:22 AM XXCoder: no, it constantly sends current to stepper sp stepper dont rotate
07:22 AM nvz: sounds like breaking to me :P
07:22 AM XXCoder: without that uyou can move machine yourself and it loses position
07:23 AM XXCoder: i may run hobby fun stuff at home but I run larger machines at work
07:24 AM XXCoder: and im not clear on you mean by "electric breaking"
07:24 AM nvz: electric breaking is a feature on some saws and other tools.. it electronically stops motion
07:24 AM XXCoder: ah yeah essentally it is
07:24 AM nvz: i.e. no actual friction like a caliper
07:25 AM nvz: just magnetism
07:25 AM XXCoder: yeah it just holds
07:25 AM nvz: yeah I read a bit about wiring up the enable all fancy insure e-stop
07:25 AM XXCoder: anyway wiring isnt too complex when you work from that
07:25 AM nvz: a kind of overkill stop it every possible way thing
07:26 AM XXCoder: one of ways is to override stepper with +v
07:26 AM nvz: but I've also read setups where they just dont use that at all
07:26 AM XXCoder: it stops machine dead even if machine is still sending pulse
07:26 AM XXCoder: good in machines that disconnecting would cause z head to fall and crash into table
07:27 AM nvz: yeah our Z axis will be heavy but its on a screw..
07:27 AM nvz: we will likely need to put better rails on it
07:27 AM nvz: will prob cost like 60-90 bucks to upgrade the rails/bearings
07:27 AM XXCoder: when its heavy enough it dont matter. at work a61 in blackout will cause head to fall half inch or so, since it have backup braking
07:27 AM XXCoder: it destroys part but whatever,. better that than destroying pallet or worse, spindle itself
07:28 AM nvz: the rails though would just cause the tool to move a little
07:28 AM nvz: cause the rails I got now are only supported on the ends
07:28 AM XXCoder: MGN rails?
07:28 AM nvz: so depending on where it is, it'll have more play
07:28 AM XXCoder: that is very common
07:28 AM XXCoder: SBR if its home hobby machine, cheaper, not as good
07:28 AM nvz: I imagine near top/bottom it'd be less
07:29 AM nvz: its only a 500mm rail
07:29 AM nvz: and we're equiping it with a 500w spindle and 7w laser to start with
07:29 AM nvz: and will likely add vac to the tool head to
07:29 AM XXCoder: i assume standard chineseium spindle
07:30 AM nvz: yeah.. fairly standard 500w dc spindle with cooler attached to back of shaft, two wires, has like 20 bits, a psu that accepts various means of variable speed/voltage control
07:30 AM XXCoder: slightly better type then, water cooled?
07:31 AM nvz: but I wanted to go with the 3 relay board to be able to turn the laser/spindle on/off
07:31 AM nvz: XXCoder: no its a fan attached to the back of the shaft
07:31 AM XXCoder: if you go for mirrored simple wiring on y you still have one extra pin
07:31 AM XXCoder: ahh ok
07:31 AM nvz: I was thinking of also putting a small magnet on the fan and wiring up an rpm meter
07:32 AM Tom_L: mornnig
07:32 AM XXCoder: careful of blance but cool
07:32 AM XXCoder: yo^3
07:32 AM Tom_L: 30°F, Lo 18
07:33 AM nvz: for a tach I'd only need a very small round magnet..
07:33 AM nvz: or I could just paint a line on it and use optical
07:34 AM nvz: but thats not something I was planning on doing right away.. I wanted to add in digital readouts for V/A on all 4 PSU, tach, and upgrade the zaxis rails
07:34 AM nvz: but right now I just wanna get it up and running
07:35 AM nvz: we built the gantry beam and legs last night
07:35 AM nvz: and I fitted the two computers underneath the table
07:35 AM nvz: got linuxCNC on the Dell Opti 780 SFF, haven't yet installed windows on the Opti 780 USFF
07:36 AM nvz: got the hdmi kvm switch all hooked up
07:36 AM nvz: the latency seemed to be in 0.3ms range
07:36 AM nvz: doing that little linuxcnc test thing
07:37 AM nvz: it was around 0.29ms latency
07:37 AM nvz: using the onboard parallel port and pcie graphics
07:37 AM XXCoder: ms? you mean um?
07:38 AM XXCoder: erm
07:38 AM XXCoder: us
07:38 AM XXCoder: latency in ms is nasty
07:38 AM nvz: no, I mean ms
07:38 AM nvz: 290000us
07:38 AM nvz: i.e 0.29ms
07:38 AM XXCoder: ah hmm
07:38 AM XXCoder: little high
07:39 AM XXCoder: my 14 year old pc got 27000us
07:39 AM nvz: yeah idk.. there were like 8 different modes for the parport in the bios
07:39 AM XXCoder: try disable all power savings
07:39 AM XXCoder: turn off inbuilt video card and get decent card of same era as your computer
07:39 AM XXCoder: those helps but not 100%
07:39 AM nvz: I put one in there.. dual-dp radeon HD PCIe card
07:40 AM XXCoder: should be fine. is onboard disabled?
07:40 AM nvz: bios setting said it would disable if it had a pcie card
07:41 AM nvz: but there is a bunch of other crap I dont need and can disable.. sound, network, etc..
07:41 AM XXCoder: yeah
07:41 AM XXCoder: power savings is big one
07:41 AM nvz: and as I said there are a lot of settings for the parallel port.. like 8 different modes.. with and without dma, at, ps/2, etc..
07:41 AM nvz: there is also all that virutalization, speed states.. etc
07:42 AM nvz: probably a dozen cpu specific options
07:42 AM nvz: normally that stuff is stuff I want, but in this case I suppose it just adds latency
07:42 AM XXCoder: heh i dont remember all those, been a while
07:42 AM XXCoder: my pc was already at extreme low end of latency, i said 25000us but that was setting. actual was around 15000us
07:43 AM nvz: yeah I just tested it using the filemanager, gimp, openoffice.. nothing major.. just enough to be hitting caches and crap
07:43 AM nvz: was too busy trying to keep my cousin from beating up the drill press
07:44 AM XXCoder: i used 5 glxgears, full screen HD video, office
07:44 AM nvz: apparently its not a piece of equipment he's familiar with and it annoys the shit out of him
07:44 AM nvz: I figured a press would make things easier
07:46 AM XXCoder: heh im not very good with drill press
07:46 AM XXCoder: sadly havent had real chance to use mine
07:46 AM XXCoder: no room >:(
07:47 AM nvz: he can't help me at all with the tech/electrical side of things yet can't seem to manage the wood working either without asking me shit constantly..
07:47 AM nvz: its hard to focus on the way more complicated shit when someone is buggin ya
07:47 AM XXCoder: its a work shop? or home hobby?
07:48 AM nvz: right now its somewhere between the two
07:48 AM nvz: when the shit is all setup, we know how to use it, and it makes money. :P
07:48 AM XXCoder: nice
07:48 AM XXCoder: I wanted art cnc stuff
07:48 AM XXCoder: only thing im workjing on is laser engraver, its small enough
07:48 AM nvz: his wife currently has a cricut
07:49 AM nvz: our machine will do a 4x4x0.5ft or so light routing and laser engraving if we get it finished
07:50 AM nvz: I just need someone who understands this control board and can give me some advice or wait for the other one to get here
07:50 AM nvz: cause I don't fully understand what any of these pins actually are or if it even f'n matters
07:50 AM XXCoder: oh it does matter
07:50 AM nvz: cause near as I can tell linuxcnc just lets you set any of the pins to whatever you want
07:50 AM XXCoder: board expects certain input
07:51 AM XXCoder: controller that is
07:51 AM nvz: idk if that was the case more documentation is required on this one
07:51 AM XXCoder: sadly i didnt make wiring map lol
07:51 AM nvz: the only way the info provided here is enough is if I just hook shit to any of the Pn outputs and then set it in software
07:51 AM XXCoder: or I'd show mine to you
07:52 AM XXCoder: because tb6600s have exact same wiring stuff as yours
07:52 AM nvz: oh I got one, for the machine we're using as a plan
07:52 AM XXCoder: BOb is different
07:52 AM nvz: but he used different boards
07:52 AM XXCoder: you need isolated outputs for stepper controllers so backcurrent dont fry your computer
07:53 AM XXCoder: signals dont have backcurrent
07:53 AM XXCoder: okay got it slightly wrong
07:53 AM nvz: even IF certain pins must be used for certain things, P4,p5,p6,p7,p8,p9,p16,p17 are all just generically labelled like that and even the other picture only shows that those 8 pins are for x/y/z/a axis
07:53 AM XXCoder: hmm forgot which you want isulated outpouts on
07:54 AM XXCoder: honestly you can use those in any way
07:54 AM nvz: doesnt say which of the 12 wires each axis uses those go to :P
07:54 AM nvz: so seems to me like it doesn't matter
07:54 AM nvz: as long as I tell linuxcnc which shit I wired it to..
07:54 AM XXCoder: on which pins, no, not really though like i said on isolated. those pins are I think
07:55 AM XXCoder: you can say use p4 for enable, p5 to 8 for direction, p9 16 and 17 for pulse (you need one more pin)
07:55 AM XXCoder: or for mirrored stepper setting, same for p4, p5 to p7 for direction, p8, p9, p16 for pulse
07:56 AM XXCoder: actually you could just use one pulse on both Y
07:56 AM XXCoder: lowering pins needed to just 8
07:56 AM nvz: idk I don't think its wise to have software controlling a gantry that isn't aware there are two motors reversed moving it
07:57 AM nvz: I dont have the experience to know what could happen.. but sounds like its a case for murphy's law
07:57 AM XXCoder: yeah you have to be REALLY careful on configuring it and test it with steppers not on machine
07:57 AM nvz: which the fine print on murphys law states that shit /can/ happen whether or not you're aware of the aformentioned law :P
07:58 AM nvz: saying anything that /can/ happen, will.. is kind of implying that anything you KNOW can happen, will.
07:59 AM SpeedEvil: I know it is possible theoretically for bit errors to randomly happen, and make me appear to be mistaken on IRC. It has never happened before.
07:59 AM XXCoder: well if you get another pin 9th one then y can be total seperate
07:59 AM nvz: I mean this guy whose machine we based ours on, he only uses limit switches for 3 axis
07:59 AM nvz: so he doesn't have seperate limit for the cloned axis
08:00 AM rmu: nvz: you have two motors moving one axis and one is reversed?
08:00 AM XXCoder: my machine only have one y stepper
08:00 AM nvz: rmu: thats the plan.. to have a motor on each side of the gantry with an open belt down both sides of the Y
08:00 AM XXCoder: rmu thats why I suggested him to just do inverse stepper wiring on second one and share step signals
08:00 AM nvz: we haven't yet built that part.. just got the gantry beam assembled last night
08:01 AM rmu: nvz: you need only one step/dir pair for the axis
08:01 AM nvz: rmu: and just wire one backwards?
08:01 AM rmu: nvz: you can reverse direction of stepper motors if you change coils
08:01 AM rmu: change wiring of coils
08:02 AM nvz: ah, so swap the A/B coil wires?
08:02 AM rmu: yes, swap
08:02 AM rmu: A with B and vice versa
08:02 AM nvz: yeah sounds about right.. if A->B B->A on one side.. goes opposite direction
08:02 AM XXCoder: that removes 2 pins so you just need 7
08:03 AM XXCoder: which is great news since you can use one pin for say coolant spray or vacuum relay control
08:03 AM nvz: well there are 8 labelled for the axis.. but there are OTHER output pins
08:03 AM nvz: https://i.imgur.com/cU1yYkm.jpg
08:03 AM XXCoder: other ones isnt isolated.
08:03 AM nvz: p14, p2, p3 for example on the top right of the board
08:04 AM rmu: stepper driver should have isolated inputs
08:04 AM XXCoder: im kinda jelious, mine have far fewer outputs and inputs
08:04 AM nvz: rmu: if you can, see the image, it shows my controllers, and the parts list
08:04 AM rmu: doesn't look like your BOB has isolated outputs
08:04 AM XXCoder: you have whole 8 inputs!
08:04 AM rmu: (except for the relays)
08:04 AM XXCoder: mine only have 4
08:05 AM nvz: XXCoder: well as I said I knew I was gonna start with two tools and add who knows what.. so.. I wanted to try with this board
08:05 AM nvz: the board that came with my motors had nothing.. it was bare as shit
08:05 AM nvz: and the other one I got on order has only one relay.. but is better labelled
08:05 AM XXCoder: rmu: his board dont have isulated outputs?
08:05 AM XXCoder: i dont see light relays on his inputs either
08:06 AM XXCoder: so inputs isnt isulated either
08:06 AM rmu: this https://openbuildspartstore.com/dq542ma-stepper-motor-driver/ says your stepper drivers have optoisolated inputs
08:07 AM nvz: https://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-free-Wantai-4Axis-Nema-23-wantaiStepper-Motor-4-2A-425oz-in-Driver-CNC-KIT/153541847131
08:07 AM XXCoder: nvz light relay is bit weird, it has led and light sensors, input turns on led and sensor turns it on and sends signal into inside side
08:07 AM nvz: thats what I'd ordered.. then I ordered the board shown in the other image.. with the 3 relays
08:07 AM rmu: XXCoder: hard to say. It looks like there are 3 optoisolators on the board, plus two whatever pin DIP packages
08:07 AM XXCoder: if overcurrent jappens it burns leds but it dont go all way in and ponentally into pc too
08:07 AM XXCoder: oh did I miss em
08:07 AM nvz: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0093Y897A/
08:08 AM nvz: this I got still comming
08:08 AM nvz: so I'd have 3 boards when its all said and done.. they were so cheap I figured I'd play with different ones and see which worked best
08:08 AM XXCoder: rmu: is chips near encoder labeled input optiisolators?
08:08 AM XXCoder: not wide one, the 3 slimmer ones
08:08 AM rmu: XXCoder: i think so
08:09 AM nvz: I figured I could use these USB relay modules or a pi, ardunio, or w/e to homebrew some of the shit.. but I'd wanted to keep that to minimum
08:09 AM XXCoder: hmm so some of his board has it
08:09 AM nvz: I didnt want to have to manually toggle my laser/spindle like this guy did
08:09 AM rmu: XXCoder: but could also be something else like protection diodes
08:09 AM XXCoder: wonder if could add optisolators in wire in? ie wire to it, then output connect to board
08:10 AM XXCoder: no cant be as it needs power
08:10 AM rmu: nvz: can you get the part numbers of the parts on the BOB? do you have schematics?
08:10 AM nvz: I do know that if oyu look at that board I got coming, which seems to be the same one the guy used in his plans.. that 3 relay board has those same two TI chips on it
08:10 AM nvz: rmu: those ARE the schematics.. and the part number on the board turned up nothing for me..
08:10 AM XXCoder: nvz: just use spindle PWM for laser also
08:10 AM XXCoder: use another pin for laser enable/disable
08:10 AM rmu: nvz: the part numbers on the components
08:11 AM nvz: rmu: yeah the ICs themselves was what I was gonna go to next if I couldnt figure out more
08:11 AM nvz: I do know that https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0093Y897A/ has an image where you can clearly see the TI chips on that board
08:11 AM nvz: and this board has those same two chips.. I didnt note the smaller chips it has yet
08:12 AM XXCoder: tha amazon one is super cheap.
08:12 AM rmu: nvz: those show HC244, those are bus drivers
08:13 AM rmu: nvz: if your board also says HC244, then those are just buffers for inputs/outputs
08:13 AM nvz: rmu: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engraving-Machine-MACH3-Interface-Board-CNC-4-Axis-6-Axis-Board-Adapter-/162783086981 is the highest res photos of that board I can find
08:14 AM nvz: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XQ8AAOSwU4FaIRSC/s-l1600.jpg
08:14 AM nvz: is a good 1000x1000px image of the top of the board
08:14 AM XXCoder: oh hey I see 3 more optiosulators? hidden near big bloocks
08:14 AM rmu: nvz: you could just take a look at your board
08:15 AM XXCoder: id blu blocks pwm? if so it has 3 pwm outputs
08:15 AM XXCoder: which is pretty dang nice I think. can do spindle and laser
08:15 AM XXCoder: *is blue
08:16 AM XXCoder: also means fewer normal pins
08:16 AM XXCoder: *for output besides stepper controllers
08:16 AM rmu: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/C7YAAOSwsYpaIRSu/s-l1600.jpg
08:16 AM XXCoder: yep, THREE relays
08:16 AM nvz: I don't /need/ pwm for the spindle
08:16 AM XXCoder: damn fancy
08:16 AM nvz: the spindle's PSU has a 2pin and 3pin interface for adjusting spindle speed
08:17 AM nvz: it came with a dial on the 3 pin interface
08:17 AM nvz: but it can accept 0-10vdc as speed control it seems
08:17 AM XXCoder: hmm relay dont sound like pwm tryung to remember the difference
08:18 AM nvz: pwm is just changing the frequency, a relay is a magnetic switch
08:18 AM XXCoder: on your picture it shows low, middle and high on 3 per relay
08:19 AM XXCoder: i guess off, mid power and max
08:19 AM rmu: PWM doesn't change frequency, it changes the proportion between "on" and "off" parts of the pulses
08:19 AM nvz: common, then a normally open and normally closed
08:19 AM XXCoder: ok
08:19 AM nvz: the common flows to the normally closed unless current is applied to the relay and it switches it to the normally open
08:20 AM XXCoder: 8 out and 5 in
08:20 AM XXCoder: p14 is "charge pump" whatever that means
08:21 AM XXCoder: p2 and p3 dont have lavel
08:21 AM nvz: I don't understand any of it.. heh.. when one bit makes sense it invalidates the rest
08:21 AM rmu: XXCoder: some stepper drivers want to see a 10khz signal (or so) on their enable inputs, thats what "charge pump" is for
08:21 AM nvz: like are p2 and p3 connected to the p2 and p3 relay somehow?
08:21 AM XXCoder: mot of it i understand clearly
08:22 AM nvz: they need better documentation of this board
08:22 AM rmu: p2 and p3 seem to be connected to the relays and to the p2-p3-p14 header
08:22 AM rmu: s/header/screw terminal/
08:22 AM XXCoder: or it is alternate output if you dont need relays
08:22 AM XXCoder: adding another 3 outputs if none of relays is used
08:22 AM rmu: seems you can disable the relays with those 3 jumpers
08:22 AM nvz: yeah thats what I'm not sure of
08:23 AM nvz: if they are just options for if you don't need all 3 relays
08:23 AM XXCoder: so if need more outputs just disable relays
08:23 AM nvz: which is stupid, cause you could just use a relay like a normal output anyhow I'd think
08:23 AM nvz: just wire to the NC pin :P
08:23 AM XXCoder: it looks like to me that relays has optisolators also
08:24 AM XXCoder: I guess since relay can have bad electric backflow
08:24 AM nvz: I just need my digital multimeter to get here and a way to manually trigger stuff
08:24 AM XXCoder: holy crap its 6 laters
08:24 AM nvz: that other board that is coming is better labelled
08:26 AM nvz: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Engraving-Machine-MACH3-Interface-Board-CNC-4-Axis-6-Axis-Board-Adapter-/162783086981
08:26 AM nvz: the features in that listing near the bottom explain it in a bit more detail
08:26 AM rmu: nvz: if you connect another axis to p2/p3 you want to disable the relays
08:28 AM nvz: yeah.. I'd want to use two relays I think.. depends on if I /need/ a relay to turn the spindle on/off
08:28 AM rmu: that ebay link has a semi-decent description of the features
08:28 AM nvz: right now I have the power for the spindle psu jumped to always-on
08:28 AM nvz: and if I can set the 0-10v to 0, that should be same as off
08:29 AM nvz: I'd have to stop the spindle, remove the bit, and have the z axis down low to engrave with the laser
08:29 AM nvz: and the tools are gonna be mounded beside one another so the origin points will be different
08:29 AM nvz: depending on which tool you're using
08:30 AM rmu: nvz: how do you control intensity of the laser?
08:30 AM nvz: not sure honestly.. cause afaik it only has two wires
08:30 AM nvz: but it says its pwm.. which I dont get
08:30 AM rmu: nvz: i would wire the spindle PSU through the relay, because safety. off is off.
08:31 AM nvz: well the laser I def need to be able to turn off
08:31 AM rmu: nvz: pulse the laser with high speed
08:31 AM rmu: with PWM
08:32 AM nvz: the other big issue I have is, the board calls for the 5V input from USB and has a 15-32VDC input labelled
08:33 AM nvz: I don't have a 15-32V power
08:33 AM nvz: I have two 36V PSUs which have about enough current to power two motors and drivers each, a 0-100V variable PSU for the spindle and a 12V psu for the laser
08:33 AM SpeedEvil: nvz: understand where the 32V limit comes from
08:34 AM SpeedEvil: read the input regulators specs
08:34 AM nvz: so I dont know what it wants with that 15-32V or how much current it will need
08:34 AM nvz: cause I got PLENTY of amps on the 12V PSU, but not much wiggle room on the 36V ones
08:35 AM nvz: i.e. if need be I could use an output on the 12V PSU with a step up
08:35 AM rmu: SpeedEvil: cooling of the linear regulators
08:36 AM nvz: I dont know what it wants that for.. the drivers themselves are powered by the 36V psus.. so.. they have the power to run the motors
08:36 AM SpeedEvil: rmu: It may also be Vin(max)
08:36 AM nvz: near as I can tell nothing I am asking this board to do requires more power than its getting from the computer
08:36 AM nvz: the power from the USB/Parallel connections
08:37 AM rmu: nvz: parallel port doesn't deliver power
08:40 AM rmu: nvz: the board probably needs 12V to generate the 0-10V output
08:41 AM nvz: yeah well 12V I have.. 15V I dont
08:41 AM rmu: you could try desoldering the linear regulator on the heatsink and powering the BOB via the 12V output
08:41 AM nvz: it says 15-32V and I have 12V and 36V psus :P
08:43 AM nvz: can I wire the enable together on all 4 motors?
08:44 AM rmu: hmm. could also be a boost converter
08:44 AM rmu: not sure
08:44 AM rmu: s/boost/buck/
08:44 AM rmu: whatever
08:45 AM rmu: yeah thats an inductor
08:46 AM rmu: so it seems there is a switching converter from 15-32 down to 12 and a linear down to 5v, but without proper schematic hard to tell
08:47 AM SpeedEvil: The stupid solution is to put ten diodes in series in the wire.
08:49 AM nvz: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/motion-controllers/cnc-6-axis-interface-breakout/
08:49 AM nvz: that site says that if you use the relays and spindle control you need a 24v 2a input
08:50 AM nvz: a standard laptop power supply would be in that range.. like 16-20VDC with a couple amps
08:51 AM rmu: nvz: if that board dissipates 50W of power you will have issues
08:53 AM nvz: yeah, well hopefully not
08:54 AM nvz: I doubt its gonna be pulling that kinda current
08:55 AM nvz: but I'm just trying to figure out what I should do here.. I can go get a 90W laptop PSU from a local store.. those are typically 60-90W @ 19VDC
08:55 AM nvz: which is like 3-4A
08:55 AM nvz: I can also probably get a transformer and hook it to the 12V psu
08:56 AM nvz: or get a 24V psu and add another to the mix..
08:56 AM nvz: but really I just don't think I can use this board at all cause there is not enough information
08:56 AM nvz: short of reverse engineering it entirely
08:57 AM rmu: nvz: get a 1usd chinese step down form amazon, use it to drop the 36V from the steppers to around 15V or so
08:57 AM nvz: yeah thats not a good idea
08:58 AM nvz: I got two 9.7A 36V psus.. and I got 4x 4.2A motors and drivers
08:58 AM rmu: LM2596
08:58 AM nvz: I'm gonna be using all that
08:58 AM rmu: nvz: that's plenty
08:59 AM nvz: not really.. I have no idea how much current the drivers or the board actually uses
08:59 AM SpeedEvil: nvz: eyeballing it, it simply can't be more than around 5W.
08:59 AM SpeedEvil: Stuff would melt.
08:59 AM nvz: yeah well on the parport board, sure..
09:00 AM nvz: but the drive controllers are different story
09:00 AM rmu: nvz: 4.2A motors and a proper driver usually don't use 4.2A all the time
09:01 AM nvz: yeah, point is I have no idea what any of it uses.. not a bit of any of this has a schematic or proper documentation :P
09:01 AM SpeedEvil: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XQ8AAOSwU4FaIRSC/s-l1600.jpg - I'm meaning
09:02 AM SpeedEvil: YOu have one bare TO220 which can dissipate 2W with no heatsink, 6 optoisolators (the 4 pin packages) which dissipate nothing. And then some tTL logic, and opamps.
09:02 AM rmu: nvz: what do you use to power your laser
09:02 AM SpeedEvil: The only things that can otherwise draw power are the relays at perhaps a watt each
09:03 AM rmu: SpeedEvil: ack
09:03 AM nvz: rmu: idk thats why I bought the 12V psu.. idk shit about the laser yet.. other than its a Neje 7W laser, seemed to have two wires and a fan on the back
09:04 AM rmu: nvz: something like this (german amazon) https://www.amazon.de/AZDelivery-LM2596S-Netzteil-Adapter-Arduino/dp/B07DP3JX2X
09:04 AM rmu: or this https://www.amazon.de/IZOKEE-Einstellbar-Wandler-MP1584EN-Converter/dp/B07DG2DCSG
09:05 AM nvz: na maybe it does have 4 wires.. the laser
09:05 AM nvz: if I'm gonna order something, I'll just order a 24V psu :P
09:05 AM rmu: oh, second link doesn't take 36V sorry
09:06 AM nvz: or wait for the other board to get here
09:06 AM rmu: i keep a bunch of those step down converters around
09:15 AM _unreal_: hello
09:16 AM nvz: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2018/01/Mach3-BoB-with-Spindle-and-Relay-Wiring-Diagram.pdf
09:16 AM nvz: that doesn't use the enable pins at all
09:24 AM nvz: I'm gonna try hooking up the X/Z as shown, hooking both Y to the Y, reversing the coils, and using the spare 2 pins for the 2th axis and maybe the p3 pin for enable if I can
09:24 AM nvz: just need to get a suitable 15-32V psu.. which as I say, a standard laptop cord could supply that
09:24 AM nvz: they're typically 19V @ 4A
10:01 AM nvz: yeah I got this hp psu that went to a thin client that is rated at 19.5VDC 3.33A
10:01 AM nvz: which I'd imagine would be sufficient for the 15-32V input on this board
11:50 AM nvz: so.. can I use pins that would normally be used for axis pul/dir for enable?
11:50 AM cpresser: yes
11:51 AM Tom_L: are you using a mesa card?
11:51 AM Tom_L: you might have to tweak the bit file if so
11:54 AM nvz: no, its a parport card, has 8 pins designated for axis but seems they're only pulse/dir
12:22 PM gloops: does the breakout board look like this? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/auXuJQI3tO4/maxresdefault.jpg
12:30 PM nvz: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/motion-controllers/cnc-6-axis-interface-breakout/
12:30 PM nvz: is the page I could find the most details on it
12:31 PM gloops: what are you trying to do with it nvz?
12:32 PM nvz: trying to hook up my machine.. :P
12:32 PM nvz: but it has no "enable" connections that I can see
12:32 PM nvz: and those seem important
12:33 PM nvz: https://i.imgur.com/DwIOkLN.jpg
12:33 PM gloops: http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/616/776/001/1001776616_258.jpg?size=133901&height=537&width=857&hash=5317a193b7256780965359f8172b1f5a
12:33 PM nvz: is what I got sitting here right now..
12:33 PM gloops: details on that pic
12:33 PM gloops: enable..what?
12:33 PM nvz: the ENABLE
12:34 PM nvz: as in the pins that hold the stepper in place
12:34 PM nvz: there are only enough pins here for 4 motors to have two wires each
12:34 PM nvz: the stepper wants 6\
12:34 PM nvz: each
12:34 PM nvz: the stepper controller that is
12:35 PM nvz: I'm gonna have two of the controllers on the same signals, and just swap the coil outputs
12:35 PM gloops: right..some pins probably have dual function
12:35 PM gloops: it should be marked on the board
12:35 PM nvz: its not :P
12:35 PM nvz: they're just numbered and there is no further documentation than I found on that site
12:35 PM gloops: not in the very small white writing
12:36 PM nvz: I'm sure it says more than p9, p8, etc.. if you read chinese
12:36 PM nvz: but idk cause I dont..
12:36 PM gloops: the stepper wants 6 wires each?
12:36 PM gloops: so you have 6 wire steppers ?
12:36 PM nvz: the motor controller sure..
12:36 PM nvz: no they're 4 wire motors
12:36 PM gloops: the stepper motor wires to the driver
12:37 PM nvz: I know
12:37 PM gloops: right
12:37 PM nvz: the point is the driver has a signal side
12:37 PM nvz: that has 6 pins
12:37 PM nvz: see the picture
12:37 PM nvz: https://i.imgur.com/DwIOkLN.jpg
12:38 PM gloops: yeah you only need to wires to the breakout board
12:38 PM gloops: two
12:38 PM nvz: current thought I'm working with like this.. is to have the red/yellow (dir/pulse) wired for x/z and the two unused thus far will be for both the cloned Y axis
12:38 PM gloops: power comes from the psu
12:39 PM nvz: the blue wires will be for the enable
12:39 PM gloops: probably wont need enable connected
12:39 PM nvz: I'm not even to the power side of things yet.. that part I get
12:40 PM nvz: well thats my problem.. I dont see anywhere TO hook it here
12:40 PM nvz: which is why I was gonna try use some of these other pins like the 4th access pins for that
12:40 PM gloops: i think enable just needs 5v to it
12:40 PM nvz: 4th axis
12:40 PM nvz: all the time?
12:40 PM gloops: not much point putting it to a signal pin
12:40 PM gloops: i think so yeah, ive never connected them
12:40 PM nvz: its not a signal linuxcnc sends then?
12:41 PM nvz: idk shit about it.. all I know is its for some kinda electronic break thing to hold the motor in place
12:41 PM gloops: lemme see its been ages since i wired these up
12:41 PM nvz: which sounds like its important
12:41 PM gloops: it wont affect the operation of the motor
12:42 PM gloops: i think you can make it part of an emergency stop
12:42 PM nvz: estop is an INPUT
12:43 PM gloops: if you break the 5v to it
12:43 PM nvz: I can get 5v if thats all it needs is a constant 5v on all them.. I just thought it had to have a pin for it.. cause some of the other boards have more pins for each motor
12:44 PM gloops: but i never wired any drivers enable up, linuxcnc estop works fine still
12:44 PM nvz: and my controllers have 6 pins
12:44 PM nvz: for signal
12:44 PM gloops: lemme have a quick look at mine thats running
12:44 PM nvz: but that also seems pointless.. seems like it only needs 3 the other should all be wired to 5VDC+ or 5VDC-
12:47 PM gloops: no none of my enable pins on the driver are wired
12:52 PM nvz: hmm well I'll try it without em for now I guess and see what happens
12:52 PM nvz: :P
12:52 PM gloops: https://www.makerguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/TB6600-stepper-motor-driver-with-Arduino-UNO-wiring-diagram-schematic.jpg
12:53 PM gloops: you can find these kind of diagrams on the net to work it out, they are all much of a muchness
12:54 PM gloops: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rcUoUkdcE18/maxresdefault.jpg
12:55 PM gloops: that one has enable wired, but im pretty sure that is going to a dual purpose pin
01:27 PM burklefoo: I think most enable signals on step drives turn off the current so the motors will just have residual torque (and lose position)
01:28 PM burklefoo: It might make some sense to wire them to LinuxCNCs machine-on signal
01:30 PM gloops: so if you estop with linuxcnc, your motors wont hold
01:31 PM gloops: which..if the z is bending against a clamp might not be a bad thing
01:33 PM gloops: with smaller stepper motors on a router, apart from breaking tools, there isnt that much damage the machine can do to itself - the motors will just lose steps if something solid is hit
01:35 PM burklefoo: Yes the enable is a safety issue for servos, for step motors its a mixed bag
03:17 PM nvz: http://nvz.farted.net/cnc/ pics so far..
03:50 PM JesusAlos: hi
03:58 PM gloops: tidy work nvz
04:22 PM Deejay: gn8
04:51 PM Elmo40: nvz, only 12V?
05:03 PM _unreal_: Elmo40, 36v from what I saw
05:42 PM jthornton: long day over with... time to relax
05:47 PM XXCoder: yay
05:48 PM jthornton: going back to Cuba tomorrow, got half my shop packed in the van lol
05:49 PM Tom_L: heh
05:50 PM Tom_L: loading for a job can take more than the actual job sometimes
05:50 PM XXCoder: doctor who might help you ;)
05:51 PM jthornton: yea, trying to not forget some tool you need... 2 1/2 hour drive each way and usually a 2 hour visit
05:51 PM XXCoder: man if we had that ability everyone would be able to have big shop and huge home
05:52 PM jthornton: what ability?
05:52 PM XXCoder: make inside bigger than outside heh (reference to doctor who)
05:53 PM jthornton: ah yea, I've never watched dr who
05:54 PM Jymmm: jthornton: My rule of thumb, is that you should visit at least as long as the round trip take in hours.
05:55 PM jthornton: that makes no sense at all
05:55 PM Jymmm: If you have to drive round trip for 4 hours (2 hours each direction), then at least visit for 4+ hours
05:55 PM Tom_L: ur nuts
05:56 PM jthornton: that's what I'm thinking lol
05:56 PM Jymmm: Basically, make the drive worth while
05:56 PM jthornton: I get my job done and head to the barn
05:57 PM Tom_L: Jymmm, you make the drive worth while in cash not time spent
05:57 PM jthornton: the drive is worth while, I make $3,600
05:57 PM Jymmm: fair enough
05:57 PM jthornton: even if I spend 15 minutes installing the poka-yoke
05:59 PM XXCoder: jt why not make special repair van that have everything
05:59 PM XXCoder: that way you dont have to load unload
05:59 PM XXCoder: need to secure your van though when not being used
05:59 PM jthornton: it's the tools I use in the shop, no reason to have more
05:59 PM Tom_L: well....
05:59 PM Tom_L: sure there is
05:59 PM Tom_L: he who dies with the most tools wins!
06:00 PM XXCoder: cut your moving hours by half or more
06:00 PM jthornton: I have two of everything now lol
06:00 PM XXCoder: maybe more expensive stuff you move into van and out, but cheaper stuff just have van stuff and shop stuff
06:01 PM jthornton: the van is my daily driver and I haul my bicycles when I go riding so it's multi purpose... it also hauls the over the hill motorcycle gang to places of interest
06:01 PM jthornton: and besides it was free... I stole it
06:02 PM XXCoder: how often do you need to bring tools and stuff to work at remote places?
06:02 PM jthornton: not very often
06:02 PM XXCoder: hmm yeah
06:02 PM XXCoder: not really worth it I guess
06:02 PM jdh: we could round up any tool you might need unless it was something really oddball
06:02 PM jthornton: I just happen to have these two back to back
06:03 PM jthornton: yea if I forget something they usually have one somewhere
06:03 PM Tom_L: i'd have a word with my scheduler...
06:03 PM jthornton: my scheduler says spend as much time as you like working on chicken projects...
06:04 PM Tom_L: is the new chicken home automated?
06:04 PM jthornton: automated and has a stereo
06:04 PM _unreal_: nvz, if I could suggest anything. the computer does it have a regular harddrive or an SSD?
06:05 PM _unreal_: if it has a regular harddrive I'd suggust mounting the computer on padding. if SSD. not an issue
06:06 PM jthornton: <roguish[m]> Techno Chichen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNJnOfyhweo
06:06 PM jthornton: that's what roguish[m] suggested
06:08 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200119_160436.jpg
06:08 PM skunkworks: close
06:08 PM jthornton: you get all the bugs out?
06:10 PM skunkworks: I think so.. So far
06:12 PM jthornton: did you do the update to get rid of the heat issue?
06:14 PM XXCoder: jt mine come with update already, which is nice. it runs pretty cool
06:15 PM XXCoder: skunkworks: is that lcnc pi4 setup?
06:16 PM Tom_L: xx it is.
06:17 PM XXCoder: nice
06:18 PM XXCoder: if I ever have room i was thinking of making rpi4 setup for my cnc router, and other setup for laser engraver that ALSO acts as pc for chatting on irc while running
06:18 PM XXCoder: plenty of power for that.
06:19 PM Tom_L: how can you make a list of projects you follow in github?
06:19 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, I'm rather certain I see a bug on the floor.
06:20 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, is that an offical mounting?
06:21 PM _unreal_: have any of you guys done stuff with timing belts?
06:21 PM Tom_L: yup
06:21 PM _unreal_: trying to find a decent source for them $ also trying to find a LAREG timing belt
06:21 PM Tom_L: sdp-si dot com
06:21 PM Tom_L: mcmaster carr
06:22 PM Tom_L: or if you need a huge one go to your local drag car shop
06:23 PM jthornton: large in what way
06:23 PM Tom_L: sdp-si has a belt calculator too
06:23 PM Tom_L: size
06:23 PM Tom_L: width
06:23 PM Tom_L: hp rating
06:23 PM XXCoder: unread my laser engraver uses em heh
06:24 PM _unreal_: I need one that is about 66-72" 208xl timing belts fit my pulleys
06:25 PM jthornton: you can get it by the foot...
06:25 PM Tom_itx: https://sdp-si.com/eStore/CenterDistanceDesigner
06:25 PM Tom_L: that's the calculator
06:25 PM _unreal_: jthornton, I dont need a strip
06:25 PM _unreal_: I need a full circle
06:26 PM Tom_L: give it your pulley sizes and it will tell you what belt you need
06:26 PM Tom_L: and the center distance of course
06:26 PM XXCoder: getting right size loop is much harder than strips where you can cut to size unfortunately
06:26 PM _unreal_: Thats part of my problem. I need to do it up in cad OR order my idlers
06:27 PM _unreal_: I just need an aprox size, I can always take up slack with tensioners
06:28 PM Tom_L: ur not listening
06:28 PM jthornton: XXCoder, you burn anything yet?
06:28 PM XXCoder: yeah bunch stuff
06:28 PM XXCoder: picture didnt go out good, found out it was mirrored when I used R letter burn
06:28 PM XXCoder: fixed stuff
06:29 PM XXCoder: yeserday was more relaxing and today might try cutting but more releaxing
06:29 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, that calculator is useless for me, thats based on a belt running around two pulleys
06:30 PM _unreal_: I have a large serpentine run.
06:30 PM _unreal_: that is going to be aprox 66-72" long
06:30 PM _unreal_: I need to ordermy idlers so I can get them into place. then I can run a string over the run
06:31 PM Tom_L: use a string to measure it
06:31 PM _unreal_: I dont have the idlers yet
07:37 PM _unreal_: shhhh
09:52 PM _unreal_: just how I left you guys
09:52 PM _unreal_: silent as can be
09:53 PM JesseG: lol
09:56 PM * Javabean grumbles, wonders why the cicidas had stopped... turns out someone started talking and scared them off
10:08 PM _unreal_: cicidas?
10:08 PM _unreal_: JesseG, do you mean cicada
10:12 PM JesseG: Huh?
10:12 PM JesseG: oh other J person :P
10:13 PM JesseG: _unreal_, cicadas are a kind of large noisy insect in some parts of the world.
10:18 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I'm milling the first servo PCB
10:18 PM _unreal_: JesseG, I live in south florida
10:19 PM _unreal_: JesseG, and yes other j person hehe
10:24 PM _unreal_: ve7it, 1.5hr mill time for this PCB ouch
10:25 PM _unreal_: I could start to finish etch it in 30min but that would require a PCB setup with lots of peserved copper.
10:25 PM _unreal_: oh well
10:25 PM _unreal_: away I mill
11:31 PM _unreal_: sigh nothingg going on
11:32 PM _unreal_: I'm still milling the first of the PCBs
11:32 PM _unreal_: arg. 12:30am and I have to work in the morning
11:32 PM _unreal_: soon as the milling part finishes got to run the drill cycle
11:33 PM _unreal_: and take a shower
11:33 PM _unreal_: just gto the last of the @#%$@#$ pissy rug from the late dog...