Jan 14 2020
02:25 AM veegee: flyback ??
02:31 AM veegee: I end up smelling like kerosene every day since I started cleaning/rebuilding the vertical mill I bought
02:31 AM veegee: I only notice it when I take the organic vapour respirator off at the end of each session
03:22 AM Deejay: moin
04:49 AM jthornton: morning
04:49 AM XXCoder: hey
05:01 AM Tom_L: morning
05:17 AM SpeedEvil: moring
09:48 AM flyback: veegee, nothing I just hate canadians
09:48 AM flyback: j/k
09:51 AM dirty_d: it's the canuck guy
09:51 AM flyback: yes
09:51 AM flyback: MUST
09:51 AM flyback: BTIE
09:51 AM flyback: CANUCKS
12:33 PM net|: https://netpipe.ca/?page_id=3828
02:13 PM roycroft: hello, folks
02:14 PM roycroft: i am looking for a self-adhesive metal tape to use on a table saw fence rail
02:14 PM roycroft: the only caveat is that it needs to be reasonably accurate
02:14 PM roycroft: i've tried a fast-cap, kreg, and starrett, and none of them are remotely accurate
02:15 PM roycroft: any ideas who makes one that is useful?
02:15 PM roycroft: i'm talking about inaccuracies of 1/16" to 1/8" per foot on the ones i've tried so far
02:15 PM roycroft: which is completly intolerable
02:16 PM roycroft: i need the rule to be 50" long, and it would be nice to be accurate to within 1/32" over that 50"
02:16 PM roycroft: it's getting expensive buying self-adhesive useless strips of metal with random paintings on them
02:17 PM roycroft: i just rang up oregon rule, whose only function is selling tapes/rules, and they told me their self-adhesive metal rules are not accurate, unless i want to purchase a stainless steel one, but they don't make those long enough
02:18 PM roycroft: plus, the stainless one is not flexible enough for my application - i need to attach it to a piece of 1.75" diameter tubing
02:18 PM Rab: Would there be more options if you added the adhesive yourself?
02:19 PM roycroft: i would not mind adding the adhesive myself, but i've not found any so far
02:19 PM roycroft: even if i were to get a metric only one from europe, i haven't found any that would work out yet
02:20 PM Rab: The tape would be attached lengthwise on the tube, and you want it to conform to the circumference across its width?
02:20 PM roycroft: ideally i'd like an imperial/metric combo, but for woodworking i need the imperial sacale
02:20 PM roycroft: yes
02:20 PM roycroft: and for that reason, getting a typical class i tape measure and removing it from the body would not work, as it's curved in the wrong direction
02:20 PM Rab: I'm not surprised a thin aluminum tape isn't accurate over 50".
02:21 PM roycroft: i'm looking at steel, not aluminium
02:21 PM roycroft: and they can be accurate
02:21 PM roycroft: but they're not
02:21 PM Rab: Could you build a roller device to make a thicker stainless tape conform to your bidding?
02:22 PM methods_: you might have to buy a solid straight rule
02:22 PM methods_: if you want accurate
02:22 PM roycroft: and the inaccuracy can be random - i spent some time with the starrett that i got (comparing it to a 36" starrett rigid scale), and it was off by 3/32" from 0-12", 1/8" from 12"-24", 1/16" from 24"-36", etc.
02:22 PM roycroft: the rail has an accurate scale on it already
02:22 PM Rab: Wow, that seems terrible.
02:22 PM roycroft: yes
02:23 PM roycroft: but it's not in the right location, and while the manufacturer allegedly sells replacement parts, they won't respond to phone calls or emails
02:24 PM roycroft: my longest starrett rule is 36", but the rule that's on the rail already is dead accurate at 36" compared to the starrett
02:24 PM roycroft: so i know that *somebody* makes them
02:24 PM roycroft: and i'm certain it's not the fence manufacturer
02:24 PM roycroft: they can't even mill straight slots in their mounting brackts
02:25 PM roycroft: or ship hardware that is not razor sharp at the edges because of the shear cuts, and not rusty
02:25 PM roycroft: the most frustrating thing is that nobody discusses accuracey in their specs at all
02:26 PM roycroft: i can buy them from mcmaster, for example, but i have no idea who makes the ones they sell, nor if they're accurate
02:26 PM roycroft: i may have to try to remove the one that's already on the rail without damaging it, and i'm not sure i can do that
02:27 PM Rab: I do find it frustrating how McMaster strips the branding from their product listings, but they've always been responsive to me over the phone; tried asking?
02:27 PM roycroft: i haven't phoned them yet - i'll give that a go this afternoon
02:27 PM roycroft: i've always found their sales and support folks to be really helpful
02:28 PM Rab: You could try solvent and dental floss (or fine wire) with the existing one, unless it's inlaid.
02:29 PM roycroft: i don't know how those tapes are printed, but if it's an ink-jet type technology, i can see how they can be so variable
02:29 PM Rab: But that does sound like a harrowing project.
02:29 PM roycroft: yeah, especially if it uses that really good 3m fixturing tape that i sometimes regret using on the mill
02:33 PM roycroft: 3m 476mp is the stuff
02:33 PM Rab: How fine does the graduation need to be?
02:33 PM roycroft: 1/16" at least
02:33 PM roycroft: 1/32" would be nice
02:34 PM roycroft: with my old fence i'd use the 36" starrett rule, or a shorter one, to dial in a measurement that has to be fairly precise, but the old fence was shorter - i could only rip to 34" with it
02:34 PM roycroft: the new one has a capacity of 50", so i can cut a full sheet of plywood, and so i can't use the starrett rule over the entire length
02:35 PM roycroft: actually, i have a rule clamp, and i could probably butt a 36" and a 24" together to get the full 50"
02:35 PM roycroft: but that's kind of awkward
02:37 PM roycroft: i don't get why random, cheap tape measures are often more accurate than any of these rule strips
02:41 PM Rab: This company offers a flat non-stainless steel tape, and makes accuracy claims: https://www.komelonusa.com/products/tape-measures/specialty-tapes/77 https://www.komelonusa.com/index.php?page=faq
02:41 PM Rab: Huh, apparently it's self-adhesive too: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B004071UG2
02:42 PM roycroft: hmm, my searches so far have not found that brand
02:42 PM roycroft: thanks - i'll check it out
02:42 PM roycroft: i was starting to consider getting a dro for the saw, but that seems overkill
02:43 PM roycroft: i need 0.030" accuracy or so, not 0.001", for the most part
02:45 PM SpeedEvil: MOAR gage blocks.
02:46 PM roycroft: when doing woodworking, exact measurement is usually not important - it's the fit of the parts that matters
02:46 PM SpeedEvil: More the understanding of the fit.
02:46 PM roycroft: i don't even measure for many operations - i use a knife to mark the cut line
02:46 PM SpeedEvil: 'yes that's gonna crack in 6mo'
02:46 PM roycroft: that's a whole different discussion :)
02:47 PM roycroft: for when i do need to make really fine adjustments i made an indicator holder that mounts on the table saw fence, so i can move the fence a few thousandths when necessary to dial in a cut
02:48 PM roycroft: but generally speaking, it's nothing like machining
02:49 PM roycroft: if i'm making a door that's 36" high i don't need to make all the stiles 36.000" long, but i do need them to be close to 36", and all of them exactly the same length, to within a couple thousandths
02:56 PM roycroft: if that komelon tape works it will be funny, as it's $6, and all the ones i've purchased so far are in the $12 range
03:37 PM skunkworks: Jymmm: proxmox seems to work pretty well... we setup a quarum and replication of the vm.. You pull the plug on the server with the vm and the vm's magically show up on the 2nd node..
03:53 PM roycroft: that's mostly correct, skunkworks
03:53 PM roycroft: it's not quite as smooth as that though :)
03:56 PM skunkworks: roycroft: Oh sure.. But it is better than what we currently have ;)
03:56 PM * roycroft is in the process of migrating his isp's virtual machines from esxi to pve
03:56 PM roycroft: i'm fairly familiar with proxmox
03:57 PM skunkworks: it definatly requires research...
03:57 PM roycroft: yes, and a lot of lab time
03:57 PM skunkworks: yes..
03:57 PM roycroft: i'm still working out some nfs performance issue
03:57 PM roycroft: i'm storing the vm images on freenas servers, and nfs mounting from the nas to the proxmox nodes
03:58 PM skunkworks: it was yesterday that we finally got the 3rd node up so we could do high availabillty... when we pulled the plug on the one server and the other took over - we though 'holy crap = that was cool'
03:58 PM skunkworks: ;)
03:58 PM roycroft: i have some non customer facing production machines on pve now
03:58 PM roycroft: but all the customer facing stuff will stay on esxi until i get proxmox tweaked a bit more
03:59 PM skunkworks: we have a large samba server (ubuntu) that we hooked into proxmox for backups and such. cifs.
03:59 PM skunkworks: seems fast enough for that.
03:59 PM roycroft: if all the nodes go down at the same time (power outage in the building) you may have problems when they start coming back up
03:59 PM skunkworks: we are talking old servers... (r720's and the like)
03:59 PM roycroft: they will all think they should be the master
03:59 PM roycroft: but 6.x supports out-of-network nodes for management
04:00 PM skunkworks: cool
04:00 PM roycroft: so if i were you i'd build a node offsite and add it as a management only node
04:01 PM skunkworks: ok - will do. (we have an offsite backup server)
04:01 PM skunkworks: (at my house) ;)
04:02 PM roycroft: i struggled with ganeti for a long time
04:02 PM roycroft: i was pretty happy with it until i did the final test - i unplugged all three nodes at the same time
04:02 PM roycroft: and i could never get it working again after that
04:02 PM roycroft: then a friend, who had been evaluating ganeti himself for his workplace, suggested i take a look at proxmox
04:03 PM roycroft: i started evaluating it and i've been quite happy with it
04:04 PM roycroft: what i especially like is how much control there is from the command line
04:04 PM roycroft: esxcli never did much for me
04:05 PM roycroft: but with proxmox i can do almost everything from the command line, and while one might not think that's a big deal, i'm on-call 24/7, and i'm often in fairly remote areas where there is no internet acceess, and cellular data is really slow
04:05 PM roycroft: being able to get a shell on a hypervisor is a lot less expensive than opening up a web session
04:06 PM skunkworks: right - it is pretty much a debian machine... :)
04:06 PM roycroft: yes
04:06 PM skunkworks: with xfs and such
04:06 PM roycroft: yes
04:07 PM * skunkworks first experience with it..
04:07 PM roycroft: and actually, it's almost brain-dead easy to build a pve machine with native zfs for the operating system
04:07 PM roycroft: something that can be done with stock debian, but is a real pain to do with the debian installer
04:08 PM roycroft: so my proxmox machines have zfs mirrored drives in them for the os, and nfs mount the vm images from a freenas (also zfs) machine
04:11 PM skunkworks: right
04:41 PM veegee: For mounting accessories like lamps, DRO display holders, VFD control panels, etc. to a bridgeport clone mill, what do people generally do?
04:41 PM veegee: Drill and tap holes directly to the base?
04:44 PM roycroft: they do whatever works :)
04:45 PM roycroft: but yes, quite commonly folks drill and tap holes for mounting brackets
04:45 PM roycroft: one can always weld up the holes and slap some paint over them later if things move around
04:45 PM veegee: Ok thanks. Looks like I'll need to think carefully about this
04:46 PM roycroft: speaking for myself, i'm not at all afraid to drill into a machine to mount something, but i'm always mindful of what's on the other side of the holes
04:47 PM veegee: When I was transporting the machine, I built a gantry to hoist it off the trailer so I got a chance to look underneath while it was in the air
04:47 PM veegee: The base is hollow, so nothing on the other side
04:49 PM veegee: Anyway, I'm looking for a lathe
04:50 PM veegee: Any recommendations? What's the "bridgeport clone" equivalent of a lathe in terms of size and weight?
04:51 PM roycroft: a lathe with a 14-16" swing is probably a good jobber shop size
04:51 PM roycroft: bed length depends on what you intend to do and how much space you have
04:52 PM veegee: typical single car garage
04:52 PM roycroft: that said, 12x36 lathes are quite popular
04:52 PM XXCoder: veegee: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000081936019.html
04:52 PM XXCoder: nah kidding heh
04:52 PM roycroft: a 12x36 will weigh in at <1000lbs without a stand
04:53 PM roycroft: something like a 16x60 clausing would be a really good size, but that might be a big large for your shop
04:53 PM veegee: Yeah that seems reasonable. I can easily transport that
04:53 PM veegee: I don't need to make huge parts
04:54 PM veegee: I can always upsize if the need arises. This is purely for hobby use
04:54 PM roycroft: probably a 14x40 is where you want to be if you want things like a foot switch and cam-lock chuck mounts
04:55 PM roycroft: you're taking 1500-2000lbs there
06:04 PM veegee: What are these kind of clamps called? https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91b4t3HTtNL._SL1500_.jpg
06:07 PM Rab: Hold down clamps!
06:07 PM Rab: Not a very imaginative name.
06:11 PM andypugh: Veegee: You want one of these if in the US, it’s lovely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mchpnTYnjB8
06:11 PM veegee: ah yeah that looks beautiful
06:11 PM jthornton: nice big lathe
06:12 PM andypugh: I like my Holbrook Minor: http://www.lathes.co.uk/holbrook-minor/
06:13 PM andypugh: (Just compare the depth of the bed on that to any comparable lathe!)
06:14 PM andypugh: What is available will depend on where you are, you don’t send to see Monarch in Europe, or Holbrook or Dean Smith and Grace in the US>
06:14 PM jthornton: well darn I don't have a photo of my Samson
06:14 PM jthornton: https://gnipsel.com/images/samson/samson04.jpg
06:15 PM jthornton: except that
06:15 PM andypugh: You do see Bridgeports in Europe as they were made here too, and also Colchester lathes in the US as they had a tie-in with Clausing.
06:16 PM jthornton: I just noticed my 4 jaw Bison has T slots
06:16 PM andypugh: I suggest you read all of lathes.co.uk then you will know what you want. Shouldn’t take more than a year :-)
06:17 PM jthornton: lol
06:17 PM Rab: There's a nice CC up for auction in Oregon: https://oregon.hibid.com/lot/58276-193805-6025/clausing---colchester-13--lathe?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=saturday_1/11/20
06:17 PM andypugh: jthornton: I saw Keith Fenner use the T-slots once. Not in the way I had imagined.
06:18 PM andypugh: Rab: That looks identical to a “roundhead” Colchester Student
06:19 PM jthornton: what did he do?
06:20 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqX3j2_nh0M
06:20 PM andypugh: jthornton: That one ^
06:20 PM jthornton: I'll have to watch that in the morning during free time
06:21 PM andypugh: Talking of YouTube, today was the day that I finally readhed 1000 subscribers. :-)
06:22 PM jthornton: I've done something similar to that but didn't use the T slots just juggled the spacers
07:15 PM skunkworks: andypugh: 409 subscribers..
07:15 PM skunkworks: you can start monitizing if you have enough watch time..
07:15 PM skunkworks: ;)
07:15 PM andypugh: Nowhere close. And I don’t plan on trying to moetise anyway
07:16 PM skunkworks: I can see how it works... If I put a video out every week - I bet I could get 1k subscribers pretty quick.
07:17 PM XXCoder: please add captions :)
07:17 PM XXCoder: honestly all you need to is fix autocaptions and its close enough usuallt
07:17 PM skunkworks: doesn't everyone speak english? come on now...
07:17 PM XXCoder: i dont speak english
07:18 PM Elmo40: i speached engrish
07:18 PM XXCoder: or any spoken language
07:19 PM andypugh: XXcoder speaks morse code.
07:19 PM XXCoder: lol thats still spoken :P
07:19 PM XXCoder: I use arms to speak, and eyes to listen
07:20 PM andypugh: Well, you could talk morse code with buttons. But would need lights to read it.
07:21 PM andypugh: Reminds me of someone who claimed (jokingly) that he sent emails by tapping wires onto a 9V battery and then put the wires on his tongue to read the replies as they came in.
07:21 PM andypugh: Well, I _think_ he was joking.
07:22 PM andypugh: Anyway, enough if this gay badinage….
07:23 PM XXCoder: lol
07:23 PM XXCoder: anyway
07:23 PM XXCoder: skunkworks: im deaf thats why I asked about captions. :) but then only 20% of caption users have hearing problems
07:24 PM XXCoder: other 80% use it for other reasons
07:27 PM Elmo40: i always place captions
07:28 PM Elmo40: i rarely read them, though... unless it is an odd word and have to figure out wtf they are saying
07:28 PM Elmo40: we placed them on for the daughter, when she was 6months. i want to believe it helped her place a sound to the scribbling called letters.
07:29 PM XXCoder: ya autocaptions have improved a LOT
07:29 PM Elmo40: even autotranslate!
07:29 PM XXCoder: maybe few words in error, expecially if specialist words.
07:29 PM Elmo40: i use that for the weirdos in germany and their CNC vids.
07:29 PM Elmo40: ;-)
07:33 PM skunkworks: XXCoder: I think I new that...
07:33 PM skunkworks: maybe...
07:33 PM XXCoder: ok :)
07:35 PM skunkworks: XXCoder: were you born with it?
07:35 PM XXCoder: yeah waardensberg syndome
07:35 PM XXCoder: nerves failed to connect to ear sense
07:36 PM skunkworks: XXCoder: I can't imagine. Although - can you imagine what it would have been like before computers?
07:37 PM XXCoder: I lived it
07:37 PM XXCoder: my mom also heh
07:37 PM skunkworks: amazing
07:37 PM XXCoder: we used to have HUGE tty my mom had for phone calls
07:37 PM XXCoder: but her parents dumped it. dammit
07:38 PM skunkworks: I am in my 40's so it it is fun explaining to the 7year old that interet wasn't around when I was a kid...
07:39 PM skunkworks: internet
07:39 PM XXCoder: im soon 44 already heh the odler, the faster time goes!
07:40 PM skunkworks: yes - exactly.. I remember agonizing for 6 to 8 weeks for delivery...
07:41 PM Tom_L: i still do. chinapost....
07:41 PM skunkworks: well - that isn't too bad...
07:41 PM skunkworks: the time passes so quickly.
07:42 PM Tom_L: i was changing diapers yesterday... now they're both running cncs in a large shop
07:42 PM Tom_L: i hear ya...
07:43 PM veegee: Something about that brushed/matte steel look that I love. How do you do it?
07:43 PM veegee: Like the dials on the bridgeport handwheels
07:43 PM XXCoder: remember to never move your head above your kid, it will grow up and hit your face
07:43 PM Tom_L: we're already past that point :)
07:44 PM XXCoder: :)
07:51 PM veegee: Brushed steel just feels so good in the hand
07:52 PM veegee: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00IMF1B5I/r
07:52 PM Tom_L: try a coars 3m pad
07:52 PM Tom_L: coarse
08:32 PM veegee: I'm looking at the manual for the T slot dimensions for my mill and a dimension is labelled "16H8". What is the H8?
08:32 PM veegee: The manual is written in chinglish so good chance that it's a typo or similar
08:35 PM veegee: But I have a feeling this could possibly be an ISO hole tolerance grade
09:11 PM Jymmm: skunkworks: NICE =)
09:37 PM Mr0rris0 is now known as Mr0rris01
10:02 PM Mr0rris0 is now known as Mr0rris01