#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 05 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:21 AM _unreal_: ve7it, I do have an other question, your servo driver. What is the max step rate? I believe my encoders are 1000 ppr or 256cpr
12:26 AM _unreal_: the motors say 1150 RPM
12:26 AM _unreal_: the page says 5khz so I assume that would translate to 5000 lines per second max?
12:29 AM _unreal_: ve7it, if I'm doing my math right I think that servo will generate close to 20khz at full speed
12:32 AM _unreal_: 1150 RPM /60 SECONDS=19.1666667 RPS 19.1666667 rpm * 1000 PPR encoder = 19166.6667 pulses generated per second or about 20khz
12:37 AM ve7it: _unreal_, I cant remember where it hit a limit, but pretty sure there were no issues to at least 3000rpm or higher
12:46 AM _unreal_: at what encode rate?
12:47 AM _unreal_: my encoders and like the one I sent you I believe are 256 line so thats 1000 cycles per rotation in quadrature
12:50 AM _unreal_: What I'm asking is do you think I'll have any issues/worries about building these servo drivers. and running the motors at MAX rpm would be step loss.
12:51 AM _unreal_: arg.. I need to stop thinking words that I'm not typing hehe
12:52 AM _unreal_: What I'm fearful of is building the drivers, and finding that they can not keep up with the quadrature and MAX rpm. do you think there is any risk or should I not likely have any issues.
12:52 AM _unreal_: and my fears are unfounded?
02:23 AM Deejay: moin
04:59 AM XXCoder: nice, my laser board is at calfornia already
04:59 AM XXCoder: cable at unknown location aw
05:25 AM jymmmm: morning folks
05:25 AM XXCoder: hey
07:57 AM _unreal_: yawn
08:46 AM _unreal_: you know I bet this could be turned into a "" mesa like step driver " " te100-p21
09:57 AM _unreal_: does any one know of a good place to get the screw hole plugs for the liner rails?
09:57 AM _unreal_: mgn15
09:57 AM _unreal_: cant seem to find a supplyer
09:58 AM elmo40: 3D print them?
10:07 AM _unreal_: I dont have a 3d printer
10:08 AM _unreal_: man this place is cheap https://www.robotdigg.com/
10:14 AM Loetmichel: _unreal_: do you mean those green plastic caps that are needed so the rails dont chew up the sleds grease retaining gaskets?
10:40 AM _unreal_: yes
10:49 AM Loetmichel: usually you can buy them where you bought the linear rails. Actually you have to because they are not fitting any other rail
10:49 AM Loetmichel: i have so far not seen two rail types that use the same plugs
11:39 AM _unreal_: I have yet to see a place that sells rails and plugs
11:41 AM Tom_L: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000429405714.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.556049edSen8Dx&algo_pvid=b4f33e4f-1b6f-49c3-aa17-806ead58c96f&algo_expid=b4f33e4f-1b6f-49c3-aa17-806ead58c96f-2&btsid=98529ab9-a137-465e-80a8-b6c1f13adb33&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_53
11:41 AM Tom_L: not too hard to find
11:46 AM Tom_L: chinese new year til Feb. anticipate a longer wait
11:46 AM _unreal_: my rails are mgn15 not mgr
11:47 AM _unreal_: unless they have the same hole size
11:47 AM Tom_L: data sheets will tell you
11:47 AM Tom_L: https://linkcncmillingcutter.aliexpress.com/store/911212?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.556049edSen8Dx
11:50 AM _unreal_: ya the holes are like 4mm
11:50 AM _unreal_: those are way to big
11:51 AM _unreal_: I may just say F it and fill them with epoxy
11:51 AM Tom_L: hope you never wanna adjust them
11:52 AM _unreal_: ! I could use hot glue as well
11:53 AM Loetmichel: _unreal_: just get some acetal rods, put them on the lathe, turn down to a suitable diameter, part off caps ;)
11:53 AM _unreal_: I dont have a lathe
11:53 AM Loetmichel: you can also use acetal sheets and a CNC mill ;)
11:53 AM _unreal_: thats a lot of work
11:53 AM Loetmichel: the caps are little more than flat disks
11:54 AM _unreal_: hotglue or epoxy will be my best bet if I cant find the %@$#%@# caps
11:54 AM Loetmichel: i wouldnt use either
11:54 AM _unreal_: I ONLY care about the Y axis
11:54 AM Loetmichel: both will not be flat enough to not chew up the seals on the sliders
11:55 AM _unreal_: my Z and X axis are to far away from the working area or orientation safe.
11:55 AM _unreal_: ?
11:55 AM _unreal_: if I hot glue fill the holes I can run a razor and shave it perfectly flush easy
11:55 AM _unreal_: epoxy I can fill and scrape clean one shot
11:56 AM _unreal_: AND I'm not to worried about stuff sticking in them hard. everything has been given a light greasing
12:01 PM Loetmichel: the holes in the rail have sharp corners
12:02 PM Loetmichel: if the caps are not absolutely flat with said corners they WILL over time chew up the seals
12:02 PM Loetmichel: thats the only reason they are there (also they provide protection agains swarf getting into the sleds)
12:06 PM _unreal_: and swarf is my greatest fear..
12:06 PM _unreal_: and I'm likely to be milling a lot of aluminum with this new build
12:06 PM _unreal_: @#$!@#$%!#$ I cant wait to get the threaded rods turned
12:07 PM _unreal_: tonight I need to ensure my measurments are correct
12:07 PM _unreal_: I've already cut them down
12:07 PM _unreal_: HATED to do it but I changed blades on my bandsaw yesterday. purchased a metal blade
12:08 PM _unreal_: again HATED to cut stainless on a new $16 blade but that or :S hack sawing 1/2"
12:08 PM _unreal_: I'll take the 1min challenge
12:38 PM _unreal_: freaking hell. I kept hearing this "sand" like shake shake shake shake..... quiet... shake shake shake..... quiet... shake shake shake..... quiet... shake shake shake..... quiet...
12:38 PM _unreal_: finally I couldnt take it any more. i just went to check it out. my daughter is fighting her etcha sketch
12:38 PM _unreal_: shake shake shake.....
01:32 PM gregcnc: are those cheap digital Ph meters suitable for coolant? i've been using one, but really have no idea if the oil is killing it.
01:36 PM Tom_L: not a refractometer?
01:37 PM gregcnc: to measure pH??
01:38 PM Tom_L: no for coolant viscosity?
01:38 PM Tom_L: dilution
01:38 PM gregcnc: I have one of those, but I'm measuring pH
01:39 PM gregcnc: i suppose I should find a quality brand and check their manual
01:42 PM Tom_L: 10%
01:42 PM Tom_L: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=rustlic+380R+material+data+sheet
01:43 PM Tom_L: 10 @ 10%
01:45 PM Tom_L: i'm guessing the pH will depend on the dilution ratio
01:45 PM gregcnc: coolants must be maintained in a range of pH to avoid rust. if you always have fresh coolant it's not a problem. My coolant has been in the lathe for over 2 years now. with enough work makeup is enough to keep it healthy
01:46 PM Tom_L: i don't worry about it since all i've got is a mist coolant nozzle
01:46 PM gregcnc: i have about 30 gallons
01:46 PM Tom_L: yeah
01:48 PM Tom_L: how often do you clean the chips out?
01:48 PM gregcnc: there are no chips in the pan
01:51 PM gregcnc: looks like ph strips are muhc less hassle
01:52 PM Tom_L: i'm sure they would be
01:52 PM Tom_L: what do you do to regulte it?
01:52 PM gregcnc: I added borax the time it was off
01:53 PM Tom_L: doesn't make suds?
01:57 PM gregcnc: a little, but it's already part of the coolant I use, IIRC
02:12 PM _unreal_: nvz, any progress?
02:13 PM _unreal_: got a bunch of stuff on my daughters mini cnc done today
02:13 PM _unreal_: got to go to the hardware store today to get @!#$!#@$ screening and return some stuff to get other stuff :)
02:14 PM _unreal_: dont want to add the weight but I think I'm going to go with 1/4" steel plate as the x/z carriage
02:14 PM _unreal_: I COULD go with aluminum. but I'm afraid it may have to much flex
02:15 PM _unreal_: considering the fact that I have to cut a big hole in the middle for the Z
03:22 PM nvz: _unreal_: I was resting up after the cold wet day yesterday.. we got more stuff coming in tomorrow and got another project to start tomorrow.. we should probably have it up and running by this time next week, but we still gotta find a computer
03:23 PM nvz: _unreal_: or at least a parallel port card to put in the Athlon64 machine we got yesterday
03:25 PM nvz: I stopped at the goodwill last night, they didnt have anything remotely computer related there
03:25 PM nvz: I've been keeping an eye on craigslist and still nothing usable in the area..
03:26 PM nvz: after I go make some money I'll just order something from ebay or something if I can't find anything locally
03:47 PM Deejay: gn8
03:57 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, what sort of hole? got a drawing of the Z?
03:59 PM nvz: something I am wondering is how I can implement something to give me the rpm of my spindle.. the spindle only has two wires.. and the PSU is variable voltage.. short of putting something to spin against the "fan" on the back end of the shaft, and trying to calibrate that to give me rpm idk.. either that or perhaps gluing a small magnet to it
04:00 PM nvz: actually a small magnet would probably be a better idea
04:00 PM Tom_L: i put a printer encoder on the end of mine in the beginning
04:01 PM nvz: or if there was a risk of that unbalancing it, maybe just put a small line of white nail polish on the fan that is on the rear axel
04:02 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/old_pulley1.jpg
04:02 PM nvz: and some kinda optical sensor deal
04:02 PM Tom_L: at the top of the spindle there
04:02 PM Tom_L: worked good until i added a better one
04:02 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/old_pulley2.jpg
04:02 PM Tom_L: slightly better pic of it
04:02 PM nvz: heh, yeah.. that might work..
04:03 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc2.jpg
04:03 PM Tom_L: swapped it out for that now
04:03 PM nvz: I can see the rpm of the spindle being something we're gonna wanna know when we get into things
04:03 PM Tom_L: quadrature
04:03 PM Tom_L: it's handy yes
04:04 PM Tom_L: those were encoders off some sort of medical equipment i got used
04:05 PM nvz: https://imgur.com/a/d5Kkv3e is the pics I took last night, the 2nd one shows the spindle we got to start with
04:06 PM Tom_L: is that a high speed spindle?
04:06 PM nvz: we got 4 PSUs so far.. that little 0-100VDC one for the spindle, two 36V for the 4 steppers and drivers, and a 12V for the little 7W laser
04:06 PM Tom_L: i dunno what the rpm limits are as far as reading quadrature encoders
04:07 PM nvz: I am not sure what the specs are on the spindle I didnt order it, joey did.. and it came from china used.. so idk what it is exactly
04:07 PM Tom_L: you're the one that was shopping for steppers a couple weeks ago right?
04:07 PM nvz: we hooked it up and tested it.. it seems to be more powerful than the rather nice dremel tool he has
04:08 PM Tom_L: dremels make horrid spindles
04:08 PM nvz: yeah we got all the parts in now except two of our rails and the timing belt/pulleys which should be here tomorrow
04:08 PM nvz: yeah I would imagine.. I'm just saying it seems to be more powerful than one of those
04:10 PM nvz: I'd just bought the motors, drivers, pc interface, bearings, z axis rails/screws, and told him what timing belt stuff to buy.. left the initial tools up to him.. I dont yet have any specs on them
04:11 PM nvz: oh and the limit switches and drag chains I ordered
04:12 PM Tom_L: where'd you get the timing belts from?
04:12 PM nvz: right now the only crap I'm scrambling to find is a computer and some wire..
04:12 PM nvz: amazon I believe.
04:12 PM Tom_L: oh
04:13 PM nvz: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KFO1P9K
04:14 PM nvz: its a 15mm width with 3mm pitch, 32 teeth
04:14 PM Tom_L: sdp-si has belts n pulleys too
04:14 PM Tom_L: with a center distance length calculator
04:15 PM nvz: 10m worth which should be plenty for the cloned Y and X-axis
04:15 PM Tom_L: make sure you shield all your wiring
04:16 PM nvz: sheild it?
04:16 PM Tom_L: for noise
04:16 PM Tom_L: you'll regret it if you don't
04:16 PM Tom_L: all mine has a metal braided jacket around it
04:16 PM Tom_L: steppers and limits both
04:17 PM Tom_L: and ground the stepper frames
04:17 PM nvz: hmm.. yeah I may order the wiring I was gonna order originally when I get some money this week
04:17 PM Tom_L: i was lucky to get most of mine surplus
04:17 PM nvz: I was gonna buy a spool of this amazon.com/gp/product/B01GZ50P7Q/
04:17 PM Tom_L: excess aircraft wiring
04:18 PM nvz: https://amazon.com/gp/product/B01GZ50P7Q/
04:18 PM Tom_L: looks about right for steppers
04:18 PM nvz: but I figured I could just salvage some wiring from stuff I had already but thats all at my father's house and I haven't been up there
04:19 PM nvz: I hadn't really given much though to interference
04:20 PM nvz: the only wire joey has on hand is regular household wiring 12/14ga and some stuff he used to wire his doorbell which is also solid wire but smaller gague
04:20 PM nvz: not shielded and not flexible for the drag chains
04:20 PM nvz: can be used for a few things but not much
04:23 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't use solid wire
04:24 PM nvz: I guess I'm gonna spend another $100 or so on getting some of that sheilded wiring I just posted, and a decent computer.. maybe a couple of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003U81D2I/ and a few of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XR2XKNT/
04:24 PM nvz: will use those lil blower fans for cooling the drivers, and put the meters on the PSUs to monitor voltage/current
04:25 PM nvz: erm..
04:25 PM Tom_L: you get good drivers, you won't need fans
04:25 PM Tom_L: good ones have idle current shutdown
04:25 PM nvz: amazon.com/gp/product/B07JJCZ1Z1/
04:25 PM nvz: this browser is annoying with this recent change that causes it to not copy the whole f'n link
04:26 PM nvz: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JJCZ1Z1/
04:26 PM Tom_L: good. it still worked
04:26 PM elmo40: nvz, what issues are you having that you need shielded cable? you making a plasma table?
04:26 PM nvz: I dont have any issues.. I haven't even built it yet
04:26 PM nvz: I just don't have any wiring :P
04:27 PM elmo40: ah, i see.
04:27 PM nvz: and Tom_L is the one who recommended using shielded wire
04:27 PM elmo40: well, if budget doesn't matter, buy shielded. always a good thing.
04:27 PM nvz: all I got is regular house wiring.. and thats not gonna cut it
04:27 PM elmo40: ;-)
04:27 PM nvz: solid core wire isn't gonna work well being bent all the time
04:27 PM Tom_L: use a single ground point and bring them all back to that point (star ground)
04:27 PM nvz: for the incomming AC thats fine I suppose
04:28 PM elmo40: no, not really. it likes to stay in place.
04:28 PM elmo40: but, everything can be bent depending how much force you apply ;-)
04:28 PM nvz: but then again I dont even really wanna use it for the incomming AC either cause our cart we built to put this on, is on wheels
04:28 PM nvz: so if we're gonna be possibly moving the machine I want braided wire on the input too
04:29 PM Tom_L: i used a pc cord on mine
04:29 PM Tom_L: found a pc frame mount socket
04:30 PM nvz: yeah I was originally going to do that and put one of these in ithttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ME5YAPK/
04:30 PM nvz: meh.. I am copypaste fail like crazy here https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ME5YAPK/
04:30 PM Tom_L: found a small industrial cabinet on ebay for cheap and put it all in that
04:30 PM nvz: but the size of the fuse in that worried me
04:31 PM Tom_L: mine was just a socket
04:31 PM nvz: yeah well I'm currently leaning toward putting it all inside the table..
04:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Wiring/Final_Wiring1.jpg
04:32 PM nvz: but joey is wanting to put it all together now.. and we dont even have everything yet.. which makes it kinda hard to put the shit in the table now unless I just leave the sides off and pre-drill port holes between the sections
04:32 PM Tom_L: all that orange jacket wiring was surplus aircraft wire
04:33 PM nvz: I literally only spent 3 days thinking about and researching this cause he is just wanting to get going using the damn thing..
04:34 PM nvz: I'm not at all comfortable at the speed we're doing this.. I wanted to have a full plan from conception to design, to how we were actually gonna profit from it before I spent a dime
04:34 PM nvz: its nearly built now and I got next to nothing figured out
04:34 PM Tom_L: well, i _did_ have a plan
04:35 PM nvz: https://imgur.com/a/d5Kkv3e that last image there shows the base of the machine
04:35 PM Tom_L: just about everything on mine was scrap parts except the electronics
04:35 PM nvz: those sections inside are roughly 14x14in
04:35 PM nvz: I was thinking I could probably use three along the back for all the stuff
04:36 PM nvz: 3 or 4 rather
04:36 PM Tom_L: a router?
04:36 PM nvz: Idk I guess you could call it that
04:37 PM nvz: as I said I just left the tools up to him.. he bought that spindle and the lil 7w laser so we'll put em both on there and see what we can do with it
04:38 PM Tom_L: hopefully the laser won't set the base on fire
04:38 PM _unreal_: ok defied death yet again. and finished fixing the broken screens over the pool
04:38 PM _unreal_: @#$@$#%#4 racoons break them
04:39 PM _unreal_: nvz, if you just want to MAKE it work
04:39 PM Tom_L: get a pet gator to monitor the racoons
04:39 PM _unreal_: use ANY computer that has a parallel port, and can boot dos. and load TURBOCNC
04:40 PM nvz: I dont have ANY computer that has a parallel port
04:40 PM _unreal_: turbocnc will work on a 386
04:40 PM nvz: I have 1 parallel port.. and its on the control board :P
04:40 PM nvz: period
04:40 PM nvz: heh
04:40 PM _unreal_: get your thinclient
04:40 PM nvz: yeah well its too late for that now
04:41 PM _unreal_: ?
04:41 PM nvz: I'd have to have done that already..
04:41 PM nvz: I got shit to do now I dont have time to make a trip to pittsburgh
04:41 PM _unreal_: there are a number of options
04:41 PM nvz: there are absolutely zero options until I get some work done this week and make some money
04:42 PM _unreal_: I'm talking about free options
04:42 PM nvz: then I'll just buy a machine.. like a core2duo or socket 775 p4 or something
04:42 PM _unreal_: heh. I have an extra motherboard somewhere
04:43 PM _unreal_: p4 I believe
04:43 PM nvz: all I got is my T440 laptop, an HP T520 Thin Client, a Dell Optiplex 780 USFF and that Dell whatever Athlon64 thing he just got from his mother's boyfriend yesterday
04:43 PM _unreal_: I'm looking at a pga370
04:44 PM _unreal_: 950mhz, 2pci slots and a parallel
04:45 PM nvz: yeah well like $50-100 can get me a P4/Core2Duo machine off ebay with like 2/4GB ram or such easily.. just gotta wait a few days til I got some money
04:46 PM nvz: I'm pretty sure that thin client would've worked if I had it here
04:46 PM Rab: nvz, I got a HP DC7800 off eBay for like $40 in 2015, based on recommendations here. Core2Duo, seems perfectly fine speed-wise.
04:47 PM nvz: yeah well I got a Core2Duo E8500 w/ 4gb ram in there but its USFF
04:47 PM _unreal_: just dont run what ever computer with built in video if it uses SMA
04:47 PM nvz: which means no parport, no expansion slots
04:47 PM _unreal_: nvz, buy a parport card
04:47 PM _unreal_: pcie
04:47 PM nvz: it has no pcie
04:47 PM Rab: Before that I was trying to use a BeagleBone Black with Machinekit, but gave up on that. I think a plain ol' PC is unbeatable for the money.
04:47 PM _unreal_: or pci
04:47 PM nvz: it has no pci
04:47 PM nvz: it has no expansion at all
04:48 PM nvz: its USFF
04:48 PM _unreal_: what is usff
04:48 PM nvz: ultra-small form factor
04:48 PM nvz: the smallest size dell makes
04:48 PM _unreal_: ok so it has a micropcie
04:48 PM nvz: SFF has expansion
04:48 PM nvz: USFF does not
04:48 PM _unreal_: nvz, modle number?
04:48 PM _unreal_: link
04:48 PM nvz: https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/optix/en/optiplex_780_tech_guidebook_en.pdf
04:49 PM nvz: there are 4 models.. this is the USFF one
04:49 PM _unreal_: page
04:49 PM nvz: there is the MT, DT, SFF, and USFF
04:49 PM Rab: Haha, there is a DC7800 on eBay as "vintage".
04:50 PM Rab: This seller looks legit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133288887879
04:50 PM _unreal_: I just want to find a picture of the inside
04:50 PM _unreal_: Rab, I'd be shocked if this computer does not have micro pci
04:50 PM nvz: it has no expansion at all inside
04:50 PM Rab: But surely there's something a lot faster for the same price now (hopefully with parport and good latency specs).
04:51 PM _unreal_: EBAY, NEWEGG
04:51 PM _unreal_: pricewatch.com use to be great
04:51 PM nvz: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1NAgnHpXXXXXhaXXXq6xXFXXXS/201062303/HTB1NAgnHpXXXXXhaXXXq6xXFXXXS.jpg
04:51 PM nvz: is the motherboard
04:51 PM _unreal_: white slot
04:51 PM nvz: ok well it does look like that bit at the top is a mpcie
04:51 PM _unreal_: is the micro pci
04:52 PM _unreal_: as I SAID the chances of it not having a micropci is zero
04:52 PM _unreal_: its to much of a handy cap
04:53 PM _unreal_: and YES they do make micro pci parallel cards
04:53 PM _unreal_: but AGAIN if your going to go ahead with the trouble of getting one JUST GET a mesa card for $50
04:54 PM _unreal_: the $50 one gives you something like 34 I/Os I believe
04:54 PM _unreal_: more then enough for 4-5 motors AND encoders
04:54 PM nvz: for $50 I can just get a larger form factor machine and if need be put the ram/cpu into it if its not as good as this one
04:55 PM _unreal_: you keep saying I have a computer but cant use it. BS just get the card
04:55 PM Tom_L: he's got a new one with everything on one board now
04:55 PM Tom_L: not sure what interface it is
04:55 PM jymmmm: IDE
04:55 PM Tom_L: link?
04:56 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I keep telling nvz he's saying I got a puter, but I cant use it. so I'm going to spend MORE for a new computer rather then just get the mesa interface adapter for LESS then any new computer.
04:56 PM jymmmm: Tom_L http://mygarage.tld
04:56 PM Tom_L: not that one
04:57 PM * jymmmm ALWAYS keeps a working old school machine around
04:57 PM nvz: I'm not in any universe buying a new anything.. gonna buy a used machine that is not USFF
04:57 PM _unreal_: I'm using a netbook for my current machine, single core 1.4ghz
04:57 PM _unreal_: atom cpu. win10
04:58 PM _unreal_: the thing is a DIRT train. but runs the machine fine using my planetcnc controller
04:58 PM _unreal_: usb interface
04:58 PM nvz: https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-OPTIPLEX-745-COMPUTER-DUAL-CORE-3-4GHZ-80GB-2GB-WINDOWS-XP-M745-4/174120846777 for example
04:59 PM nvz: within 200mi of here, free shipping $50
04:59 PM nvz: has a parallel port
04:59 PM _unreal_: LOL nvz it has built in GPU. you still HAVE to add a pci video card
05:00 PM nvz: wth does the video have to do with this stuff?
05:00 PM _unreal_: and looks like you'd have to get a low profile
05:00 PM _unreal_: !!! really
05:00 PM nvz: its suppose to as I understand be controlling the machine, not rendering video
05:00 PM nvz: should be able to do it headless ffs
05:00 PM _unreal_: nvz, you are hell bent on software stepping a machine
05:01 PM _unreal_: you can NOT likely disable the GPU even in the bios and still boot.
05:01 PM _unreal_: and BUILT IN gpu's use SMA
05:01 PM _unreal_: I told you this yesterday its in the logs
05:01 PM _unreal_: I assume you did not read it then
05:01 PM nvz: I know all this, I'm a certified computer technician, certified in linux, been doing this crap for decades
05:02 PM nvz: what I DONT understand is what this has to do with controlling a CNC over parallel port
05:02 PM _unreal_: few comptuers do soft stepping well with onboard gpus
05:02 PM _unreal_: SMA kills the jitter
05:02 PM nvz: what need does linux cnc have for graphics?
05:02 PM nvz: so the sharing of video ram causes latency on the IO?
05:02 PM _unreal_: MASSIVE
05:02 PM _unreal_: MASSIVE
05:02 PM _unreal_: MASSIVE
05:02 PM _unreal_: MASSIVE
05:03 PM _unreal_: GOOD do some research
05:03 PM _unreal_: god
05:03 PM nvz: hmm..
05:03 PM Connor: nvz: LinuxCNC uses a realtime kernel. Some onboard video can cause issues..
05:03 PM nvz: well I can see how that'd be possible
05:03 PM _unreal_: Connor, nvz is going to ignore your advice
05:03 PM nvz: but then you'd also have to avoid cpu based graphics
05:03 PM _unreal_: nvz, LIKELY
05:04 PM nvz: i.e. not use any cpu with any embedded hardware which uses any sort of DMA components
05:04 PM _unreal_: but thats only for soft stepping
05:04 PM _unreal_: meaning using a parallel port
05:04 PM _unreal_: nvz, only high bandwidth systems are an issue
05:04 PM nvz: yes, well I wasn't going to use that originally I was gonna use a microcontroller with grbl
05:04 PM Connor: Because of using the base thread + servo thread. If using a FPGA card like MESA, then, it's a different story.
05:04 PM _unreal_: GPU is one of the highest bandwidth consumers
05:05 PM nvz: but then I was told that linuxcnc is just software controlled
05:05 PM Connor: Then, you only use the servo thread.
05:05 PM _unreal_: nvz, lcnc does not use grbl
05:05 PM _unreal_: and there IS no support for it. and likely never will be
05:06 PM _unreal_: nvz, that being said you could use any cellphone and a otg cable and plug an arduino in and run universal gcode sender
05:06 PM _unreal_: and grbl
05:06 PM nvz: well I'm not gonna get a machine without onboard graphics unless I build it custom, thats that.. most I can do is add graphics and disable the onboard
05:07 PM _unreal_: nvz, I told you that.. just add a pci gpu
05:07 PM _unreal_: then the bios can be switched to external gpu
05:07 PM _unreal_: disabling the SMA
05:07 PM nvz: so.. to make that easier, just don't get something that only supports half-height cards..
05:08 PM _unreal_: half height cards are fine
05:08 PM nvz: they are harder to find :P
05:08 PM _unreal_: its not the size its how you use it big boy
05:08 PM nvz: heh
05:08 PM _unreal_: nvz, bs
05:08 PM _unreal_: there are TONS of gforce cards out there
05:08 PM _unreal_: gforce 5200
05:08 PM _unreal_: half height
05:09 PM _unreal_: just a few bucks
05:09 PM nvz: https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-OPTIPLEX-760-COMPUTER-DUAL-CORE-2-93GHZ-160GB-2GB-WINDOWS-XP-B760-37/183967448608 same seller has same computer in MT form factor
05:09 PM Connor: _unreal_: you got any info on SMA?
05:09 PM Connor: I've not heard that term before.
05:09 PM _unreal_: shared memory archivature
05:09 PM nvz: yeah its not a term I use either
05:09 PM Connor: I've got 3 atom PC's using built in video.. all parport pased.
05:09 PM nvz: but I know what he meant by it
05:10 PM Connor: but, they where known good mobo's for linuxcnc.
05:10 PM _unreal_: Connor, depends on the puter
05:10 PM nvz: the atoms you speak of are probably like newer ryzen or core i machines, the video is on the CPU itself
05:10 PM _unreal_: in general its "HIGH" risk
05:11 PM _unreal_: nvz, its not even really the SMA so much as it is all the over head
05:11 PM nvz: and when you get into this kinda discussion any parport can be considered high risk cause many of them have issues like spurrious interrupts and shit in linux
05:11 PM _unreal_: again. ANY computer can run dos and boot turbocnc and run tubocnc driving a parport and get great step rates. BUT there is no over head
05:11 PM nvz: when I last used a machine with a parport I disabled the parport to avoid it spewing errors
05:12 PM _unreal_: no big OS, no COMPLEX gpu, no nothing. just dosmode4 runtime
05:12 PM nvz: yeah I'm familiar with the issues of a monolithic kernel
05:12 PM Connor: http://www.mini-box.com/Gigabyte-J1900N-D3V is the one we just went with..
05:13 PM _unreal_: thats why i keep telling you. you have a decent computer right now JUST get a dirt cheap mesa driver and your done
05:13 PM _unreal_: infact you can even to stuff on the computer
05:13 PM jymmmm: connor Pffff, that can't hold 8TB ram
05:13 PM _unreal_: nvz, keep in mind if your software stepping a cnc machine
05:13 PM _unreal_: you DONT use the computer for anything else
05:14 PM _unreal_: IF...
05:14 PM _unreal_: you use a mesa driver. then it takes the smooth stepping load and feedback if used. and the computer is free to do other stuff
05:14 PM jymmmm: connor whats the latency on that mobo
05:14 PM _unreal_: you can tehn use the computer for cad/cam etc..
05:14 PM _unreal_: and be milling/printing what ever
05:15 PM Connor: servo - 32313 base - 34064
05:15 PM Connor: Still tuning it..
05:15 PM Connor: Just found this thread: https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/28794-gigabyte-j1900-ga-j1900n-d3v
05:15 PM jymmmm: gotcha
05:15 PM Connor: That's with Stretch, not Wheezy
05:15 PM Connor: We may move to Wheezy
05:15 PM gloops: i use an older dell optiplex, not dual core, runs a router from parport fine
05:15 PM _unreal_: nvz, if you stick to par then your limiting the computer to being a step driver only. and if you load other tasks you risk loosing smooth stepping. and loss of smooth stepping can cause MAJOR probelms
05:16 PM jymmmm: _unreal_: if he doens't want it, he doens't want it
05:16 PM gloops: i suppose it depends what machine and what you want it to do
05:16 PM _unreal_: gloops, I was thinking, I have a "print server" would likely be cool as a step driver
05:16 PM _unreal_: given a custom firmware
05:16 PM _unreal_: te100-p21
05:17 PM gloops: i upped the RAM to 4 gig didnt make any other changes - oh added an old 3D graphics card
05:17 PM _unreal_: jymmmm, hehe no argument there but hes also trying to pull a trick out of his ass with out bothering to do any research.
05:17 PM nvz: _unreal_: yes well getting one of these Dell machines for $50 is trivial, add another $20 for a video card, still only talking $70.. which is fine, just gotta wait a couple days to order one
05:18 PM jymmmm: _unreal_: Hey, that might be impressive, jsut get it on YT
05:18 PM _unreal_: lol
05:18 PM _unreal_: jymmmm, hows the projector :)
05:18 PM Connor: Anyone know anything about doublefreq ?
05:18 PM gloops: good for probably 10000mm/min, i got joint following errors after 15000mm/min
05:18 PM gloops: dead slow for a router by some standards heh
05:19 PM gloops: but ok for my homemade contraption
05:19 PM _unreal_: gloops, always thought this would be cool as a step driver. te100-p21
05:19 PM jymmmm: _unreal_: fine, waiting for spring for outdoor movies
05:19 PM Connor: My machines have been rather slow.. never needed it.. but, doublefreq looks like a way to get the step count higher.. and on this laser.. I'm thinking we might want it.
05:19 PM gloops: https://www.trendnet.com/products/product-detail?prod=145_TE100-P21
05:19 PM gloops: hmm dunno _unreal_
05:20 PM _unreal_: I opened it a long time ago
05:20 PM _unreal_: its got some cpu in it I forget but linux fully supports compiling for it
05:20 PM _unreal_: as I recall the thing has 64mb ram, 16mb flash and 180mhz cpu
05:21 PM gloops: well, could always hook it up and try
05:21 PM _unreal_: hehe ya.. I'd have to rip the firmware firt
05:21 PM gloops: anyway time for bed here
05:53 PM pcw_home: nvz: sometimes onboard video is sometimes an issue but not always, I would not buy a video card until you test your PC first
05:56 PM pcw_home: http://freeby.mesanet.com/7800sff.png
05:57 PM nvz: yeah that graph means nothing to me
05:59 PM pcw_home: It shows the the Base thread latency is around 11 usec worst case so excellent for software stepping
06:00 PM pcw_home: (using the on board Intel Graphics )
06:01 PM pcw_home: That's for a HP DC7800 SFF (which has an onboard parallel port)
06:03 PM nvz: I'll just take your word for it.. that means nothing to me.. I dont know what that is, what a bins means, or any of that
06:04 PM nvz: I get that its showing +/- bins in microseconds whatever the hell a bins is
06:05 PM _unreal_: ^^^ nvz your only proving my point that you would be wiser to just get a mesa controller
06:05 PM nvz: If I had to guess its showing the latency on base vs servo whatever that is
06:05 PM _unreal_: nvz, thats showing the timing latency
06:05 PM nvz: no shit.. of what
06:05 PM pcw_home: is a histogram of latency vs number of cycles ( the worst case latency determines how fast you can run software stepping )
06:05 PM _unreal_: the cpu
06:06 PM _unreal_: it says it at the top
06:06 PM nvz: it just says base/servo thread I have no way of knowing what a base or servo thread is in this context
06:06 PM nvz: I dont even know what program generated that
06:07 PM _unreal_: nvz, what we are getting at is that you can have a crazy powerful computer, seems fast in everyway. but cant do low latency RT for shit
06:07 PM nvz: I get that I've not really done much rt stuff
06:07 PM _unreal_: nvz, dont know? it says it IN the picture
06:08 PM _unreal_: time graph based on RTAI
06:08 PM pcw_home: LinuxCNC uses threads for controlling real time motion, typically software stepping is done by the high speed base thread
06:08 PM _unreal_: version...
06:08 PM nvz: it says it to someone who knows what they're lookig at
06:08 PM _unreal_: I thought you said you are the linux guy of the group your working with
06:08 PM * _unreal_ goes for more beer
06:09 PM nvz: I am, doesnt mean I know what tool that is
06:09 PM nvz: or what it does or how
06:10 PM _unreal_: What I'm getting at is that you have clearly convinced everyone in here that you are not prepared to make such a deep dive into this project. and why we will continue to suggest getting a mesa controller. save your self the trouble.
06:11 PM _unreal_: nvz, a wise setup with a larger machine is to have the computer remote. and use a hand held pendent
06:11 PM pcw_home: For software stepping, the host computers latency determines the maximum step rate it can generate
06:11 PM _unreal_: pcw_home, he wants to do closed loop software
06:12 PM _unreal_: I keep telling him he cant. heheheh. not unless he has to parallel ports
06:12 PM pcw_home: the point of posting the plot is that it shows you can have very adequate latency even with a $40 free shipping CPU with onboard graphics
06:13 PM pcw_home: you can do close loop with software only but usually the encoder sample rate becomes a limitation
06:14 PM _unreal_: pcw_home, and he needs two parallel ports
06:20 PM nvz: idk where you get all this idea about closed loop from.. near as I can tell nothing I have even supports such a setup
06:21 PM nvz: the only input I'm planning on getting back from my machine is the limit switches..
06:22 PM nvz: fanciest thing I've only losely planned so far is computer control of the spindle and some means of monitoring rpm
06:22 PM nvz: but as of right now all I got is a dial wired to the psu for manual control of speed and nfc what speed it actually is
06:25 PM nvz: I got as of right now just a very simple parallel port interface board that came with the motors/drivers/psus looks to me like nothing more than a breakout board that can control 6 axis and get input from the limit switches.. it has no logic of any kind that I can see.. it needs the computer on one end and the motor drivers on the other to do anything at all
06:26 PM pcw_home: One of those $5.00 5 axis "Mach3" BOBs gives you analog spindle control (for a VFD)
06:27 PM nvz: yeah well I think what I got already is exactly that
06:29 PM nvz: https://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-free-Wantai-4Axis-Nema-23-wantaiStepper-Motor-4-2A-425oz-in-Driver-CNC-KIT/153541847131 is the kit I bought that had a board with it.
06:29 PM nvz: at the outset I'd planned on getting a rpi with a cnc hat and letting the little microcontroller that ran on gbrl do it all
06:32 PM nvz: from what I can tell looking at the board, it seems like its nothing at all more than a break out board.. I could've cut a parallel port cable in half and had basically the same thing
06:32 PM nvz: it just gives you nice lil screw down connections
06:33 PM pcw_home: That BOB does not appear to have the spindle interface
06:33 PM pcw_home: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-for-Stepper-Driver-Controller-MACH3-US/352779440465?hash=item52234b1151:g:vvwAAOSwlqJdcdit
06:34 PM pcw_home: is the one I was talking about
06:34 PM nvz: I figured I could just hook it to a spare axis and do the rest in the software settings
06:34 PM nvz: the psu for the spindle has two methods of control build into the psu
06:35 PM nvz: it has 2 pin for on/off currently just jumped to perm on.. has a 2 and 3 pin interface for voltage control.. I assume it uses pwm
06:36 PM nvz: but either way I've made no concrete plan on the control side.. the motor kit just came with a board.. doesn't mean I gotta use it
06:42 PM nvz: pcw_home: from what I can see the guy we based our plans off of did use that board you linked
06:45 PM nvz: https://www.diybuilds.ca/uploads/1/1/6/7/116702907/cnc_wiring_diagram.pdf is his original wiring diagram
06:45 PM nvz: https://www.diybuilds.ca/uploads/1/1/6/7/116702907/cnc_wiring_diagram_with_laser.pdf is after he added a laser
06:45 PM nvz: we were just gonna put a laser on ours to start with
06:47 PM nvz: the spindle/laser control and speed control is all just extra stuff..
06:48 PM nvz: I can turn that stuff on manually for now
06:50 PM nvz: cause really it doesn't seem like his setup does anything fancy anyhow.. it just has a contactor turning it on and off.. ours has speed control his is just some cheap dremel kinda tool not an actual spindle with variable speed psu
06:51 PM nvz: currently our spindle is just wired always on with a jumper and a dial for speed/voltage control manually
06:59 PM _unreal_: nvz, you have no clue what your doing
07:00 PM nvz: I know this :D
07:00 PM nvz: I wanted to spend all this time figuring the stuff out before getting started.. joey on the other hand wanted to just dive right in
07:23 PM _unreal_: nvz, if I were you. I would just get one of the DIRT cheap mach3 "chines knockoffs" controllers
07:23 PM _unreal_: 3,4,5 axis on ebay. you get a full copy of mach3
07:23 PM _unreal_: its USB
07:24 PM _unreal_: your up and running in NO time at all. and any computer will drive it
07:24 PM _unreal_: just have to run win10
07:25 PM _unreal_: it does not make sense to spend lots of time "making" a special compute trying to get everything working the hard way. when you can just get a simple controller follow the simple wiring and be done. UP and running
07:25 PM _unreal_: if your going to put money into something I'd suggest a wired/wireless pendent
07:25 PM _unreal_: whb04b-6 for example
07:25 PM _unreal_: direct support in mach3. "pain in the ass but" it can be setup to run in lcnc
07:27 PM _unreal_: nvz, the one IMO major problem with lcnc is that if you change settings you can BRICK your working setup. and suddenly have a non functional machine because the computers software has been altered.
07:28 PM _unreal_: >:) IIRC tom has faught that battle a few times..
07:30 PM _unreal_: I.. and currently cooking dindin... any one hungry :) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gMc9Q2aCuZ4hMY3uuMgRYHfLXZ9qb-Ah
07:32 PM _unreal_: nvz, I'll sell you a very expensive SSR or mr for cheap
07:32 PM _unreal_: in regards to the spindle.
07:53 PM nvz: _unreal_: can I buy a few voels first? :P
07:53 PM nvz: vowels even
08:45 PM dirty_d: It took me an hour to solder 5 of these. 0/10 do no recommend https://i.imgur.com/vSdiBVe.jpg
08:47 PM norias: no fun club
08:57 PM skunkworks: dirty_d: why solder - crimp should be just fine
09:00 PM Wolf__: those look easy (if you have the right crimper)
09:00 PM Tom_L: that cheap RS crimper works fine on those but RS it out of business now
09:03 PM Wolf__: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002AVVO7K/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_QgQeEb50VA1K2 FTW IMO
09:04 PM dirty_d: skunkworks i dont have a crimper, I'm going to get one though after this
09:05 PM dirty_d: hmm, https://www.amazon.com/IWISS-Crimping-AWG28-20-Terminals-Connectors/dp/B078WNZ9FW
09:05 PM dirty_d: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25qObkSUHng
09:07 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, solder?
09:07 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, those are JST crimps
09:07 PM dirty_d: I know, it's ok this is just for testing
09:07 PM Wolf__: I’ve had the PA-09 for 6 yrs and have done probably a thousand connectors with it
09:08 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, you dont need a crimp but it is HIGHLY advisable
09:08 PM dirty_d: it was such a pain in the ass, I'm never soldering these again, lol
09:08 PM _unreal_: I've "crimped" those many times just using small needle nose pliers
09:08 PM skunkworks: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R1H3Z8X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
09:08 PM Wolf__: I think I might have a set of iwiss as well, have to look
09:08 PM dirty_d: it's not the soldering so much that sucks, its bending all the things out of the way so they fit in the connector
09:09 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, its method
09:09 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, I use curved needle nose pliers
09:09 PM dirty_d: curved how?
09:09 PM Wolf__: smashing them with pliers sucks because w/out the roll crimp the wire usually will pull out
09:10 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjriZ2y_u3mAhVIKa0KHZ_3AHwQjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FTEKTON-Mini-Bent-Pliers-PMN11301%2Fdp%2FB07CP24BXF&psig=AOvVaw0K93li44PkAsbI8rTkAE0F&ust=1578366185733750
09:10 PM _unreal_: got to have narling
09:10 PM _unreal_: the mini teeth
09:10 PM _unreal_: but I'd advice crimpers regardless
09:11 PM dirty_d: i tried with pliers first, but these are way too small
09:11 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, I typically use pliers like those. JUST to bend the large END crimp part down a bit. more or less like a circle
09:11 PM dirty_d: you cant get them to bend over like the crimper does
09:11 PM _unreal_: then I put them into my crimper
09:12 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, this tooth pattern is IDEAL https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/10219
09:13 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, I can very much so
09:13 PM dirty_d: https://imgur.com/a/iFl424U
09:13 PM _unreal_: but as I said I use my very small curved needle nose pliers just to bend down the large END part of the crimp. I just bend them into kind of a circle. enough to capture the wire.
09:14 PM dirty_d: I'm gonna get these ones https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078WNZ9FW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A12YM1PYCMRIKV&psc=1
09:14 PM Wolf__: yup, IWISS its-2412M, they work ok as well (but larger sizes)
09:14 PM _unreal_: it just makes it less of a fight to align the wire with the crimp in the crimps
09:14 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, work just fine but I'd suggest a compound if you can find one at an $$ ideal range
09:15 PM dirty_d: I think these have a flat spot in front to parallel the things first
09:15 PM dirty_d: yea
09:23 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, I have a lot of crimpers and I'll be honist, I have yet to find a pair that wil hold a JST crimp so you can locate the wire
09:23 PM _unreal_: I've always had to bend over the end grabers just to make a circle to hold the wire at least in place
09:24 PM _unreal_: I own a set of these dhttps://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html
09:24 PM _unreal_: https://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html
09:25 PM Wolf__: I’ve never had to fight a connector in the PA-09, jst hold in just fine
09:25 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
09:27 PM _unreal_: FOUND them... scroll down first red handle http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4071.45
09:27 PM _unreal_: those are the one's I have
09:27 PM dirty_d: hmm, not sure which connectors I should use for these encoders, like to go to the control box
09:28 PM dirty_d: I'm thinking maybe RJ12
09:28 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, ?
09:28 PM dirty_d: the stepper motor's encoder
09:28 PM _unreal_: oh :) dirty_d one of my cnc machines i USE rj11 for my limit switch wiring
09:28 PM dirty_d: I'd like everything to be easy to unplug
09:29 PM _unreal_: are you using an index signal?
09:29 PM dirty_d: I need 6 conductors, so RJ12 would work
09:29 PM dirty_d: nope
09:29 PM _unreal_: are you using quadrature?
09:29 PM dirty_d: yea
09:30 PM _unreal_: quadrature is 4 wires
09:30 PM dirty_d: but gnd and +5V
09:30 PM Tom_L: 5
09:30 PM _unreal_: +5v, A, B, Ground
09:30 PM Tom_L: well thanks but i wasn't asking
09:30 PM _unreal_: heh
09:30 PM Tom_L: +5, A, B, C, Gnd
09:30 PM _unreal_: C?
09:31 PM Tom_L: .index
09:31 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, he just said he's not using index
09:31 PM Tom_L: alot of quadrature encoders have an index pulse
09:31 PM _unreal_: I.... asked :)
09:31 PM Tom_L: i'd still wire it
09:31 PM _unreal_: no argument
09:31 PM dirty_d: these do have index
09:31 PM Wolf__: might as well future proof it
09:31 PM Tom_L: you never know when you may want to do spindle orient
09:32 PM dirty_d: yea i would like to have it i guess in case I want to use it somehow
09:32 PM Tom_L: or whatever
09:32 PM dirty_d: RJ45 then I guess
09:32 PM _unreal_: 45?
09:32 PM Wolf__: 4 pair
09:32 PM _unreal_: rj12 phone wire is far better for constant motion
09:33 PM dirty_d: I know, but I need 7 conductors If i include index
09:33 PM jymmmm: but it's not shelded
09:33 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, what?
09:33 PM jymmmm: shielded
09:33 PM _unreal_: where do you get 7
09:33 PM Tom_L: it's right after 6
09:33 PM Wolf__: before 8
09:33 PM dirty_d: gnd, 5v, a+, a-, b+, b-, index
09:34 PM dirty_d: oh 8
09:34 PM dirty_d: index+ index -
09:34 PM Tom_L: if you're using differential
09:34 PM dirty_d: yea
09:34 PM Tom_L: better noise immunity
09:34 PM _unreal_: your encoder HAS + AND - signals?
09:34 PM dirty_d: yup
09:34 PM dirty_d: AMT113Q
09:34 PM _unreal_: or your motor controller
09:34 PM dirty_d: the motor controller is too
09:35 PM Wolf__: then you can go the easy route and just find cat5 stranded cables
09:35 PM dirty_d: yea
09:35 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, you tie all the + signals to +v
09:35 PM dirty_d: gnd and vcc being twisted isnt a problem?
09:35 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, not likely
09:35 PM dirty_d: I wouldn't think so
09:36 PM _unreal_: or tie all the - lines together. depending on if your using active high or active low
09:36 PM _unreal_: so 8 wire or 5 wire doesnt matter
09:37 PM _unreal_: but your going to need special coax cable
09:37 PM _unreal_: err not coax sorry
09:37 PM _unreal_: ether net
09:37 PM dirty_d: cant, they're all differential
09:37 PM _unreal_: what are all different?
09:37 PM dirty_d: the quadrature signals
09:38 PM _unreal_: o,O I'm looking at the manual
09:38 PM dirty_d: A- isn't like gnd, and A+ 5V
09:38 PM dirty_d: its not lole step- and step+
09:39 PM dirty_d: like*
09:39 PM dirty_d: i think I'm using the wrong terminology
09:39 PM dirty_d: its A and A with a line above it
09:39 PM dirty_d: not A+ and A-
09:40 PM Wolf__: more like a rs422 coms
09:40 PM dirty_d: the signals are driven by an H bridge or something
09:40 PM Wolf__: or is it RS485
09:40 PM dirty_d: yea its RS422
09:41 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, you have your choice of a serial, or direct AB signals
09:41 PM dirty_d: _unreal_ yes they make two versions of the encoder, but the motor driver expects differential signals
09:41 PM _unreal_: if your motor controller reads AB SIGNALS then use that.
09:42 PM _unreal_: ahh... hehe I think your confused
09:42 PM _unreal_: all modles pins 1 and 2 are RX/TX,
09:43 PM _unreal_: all models pins 8 10 12 are ABZ
09:43 PM dirty_d: that's to configure the encoder with a computer to set the pulses/rev
09:43 PM _unreal_: brb putting myd aughter to bed
09:44 PM dirty_d: I know, Mine also has A-, B-, Z-
09:44 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, thats for driving your encoer siganls as active HIGH or active low
09:45 PM _unreal_: depends on your motor controller or setup to decode the rotory encoder
09:45 PM _unreal_: I'm reading the manual
09:45 PM _unreal_: heeh
09:45 PM skunkworks: Uh - that is for differential vs ttl...
09:45 PM dirty_d: my motor controller takes differential quadrature signals
09:46 PM dirty_d: rs422
09:46 PM skunkworks: single ended or differential
09:46 PM dirty_d: _unreal_ that's not what A+ and A- on the AMT113Q are for
09:47 PM dirty_d: AMT113S is CMOS voltage signals, AMT113Q is differential line driver
09:48 PM dirty_d: A on the 113S model is 0 or 5V with respect to gnd, A and A- on 113Q are +/-5V with respect to each other
09:49 PM dirty_d: like how one phase of a stepper motor is driven
09:55 PM _unreal_: wow there is NOTHING online for wiring diagrams on that encoder. I only found one link where someone used an arduino to read the serial encoder date
09:55 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, fyi this place is cheap for a lot of stuff https://www.robotdigg.com/
09:55 PM dirty_d: I used some generic FTDI adapter
09:56 PM dirty_d: I just guessed which pin that MCLRB signal went to, it was RTS
09:57 PM _unreal_: well I need to get some measurments done so I can make my write up for the machine company tomorrow so they can turn my lead screws
09:58 PM dirty_d: worked like a charm https://i.imgur.com/WP2cggC.jpg
10:16 PM infornography: chili with or without beans?
10:16 PM _unreal_: infornography, with
10:16 PM _unreal_: I'm still farting like hell
10:16 PM _unreal_: any of you guys live in the US with a lathe?
10:16 PM _unreal_: err have a lathe
10:16 PM Tom_L: uh huh
10:17 PM _unreal_: I'm looking at my timing pulleys
10:17 PM _unreal_: I need to make some spacers with clamps in them. simple T shape
10:18 PM _unreal_: with two slices a photo is worth a thousand words
10:18 PM Tom_L: damn sure is
10:19 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Z_Axis_Pulley.jpg
10:19 PM Tom_L: mine is pretty old
10:19 PM _unreal_: uploading
10:20 PM _unreal_: tom I have the pulleys I need inserts to reduce the hole :/
10:20 PM Tom_L: bushings
10:20 PM _unreal_: god bless you
10:21 PM _unreal_: tom https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gNrNdodnPq7PjY8FLH5GMqQAXPrHvGuQ
10:21 PM _unreal_: I need like two of these
10:21 PM _unreal_: the video HAS one I have two more that need them
10:22 PM Tom_L: get them from sdp-si
10:22 PM _unreal_: ?
10:22 PM Tom_L: my internet is shit right now
10:22 PM _unreal_: my internet is DA shit :)
10:23 PM _unreal_: low res
10:23 PM Tom_L: https://www.sdp-si.com/products/Shafts-and-Shaft-Accessories/Index.php
10:24 PM Tom_L: https://shop.sdp-si.com/catalog/?cid=p854
10:25 PM _unreal_: they dont have my size
10:25 PM _unreal_: so far as I have found?
10:25 PM Tom_L: they will make it
10:25 PM Tom_L: if they don't
10:26 PM _unreal_: $$
10:26 PM Tom_L: what size?
10:26 PM _unreal_: OD 14mm, ID 8mm
10:27 PM Tom_L: get some cheap couplers off ebay etc and cut the ends off
10:27 PM _unreal_: I just need the shape
10:27 PM _unreal_: I dont have a lathe
10:28 PM Tom_L: you have a mill
10:28 PM Tom_L: you don't understand... cut off what you need and mill it flat
10:28 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Couplers.jpg
10:29 PM Tom_L: cheapest route of all
10:29 PM Tom_L: order 8mm couplers
10:29 PM Tom_L: you can get 2 from one coupler
10:29 PM _unreal_: I need this https://www.sdp-si.com/ss/gif/78004009.jpg
10:30 PM Tom_L: get 1/4" and ream it out to 8mm
10:31 PM _unreal_: themy pulleys ID is 14mm
10:31 PM Tom_L: i had to bore my pullies out a little
10:32 PM _unreal_: I should have purchased 10mm bearings
10:32 PM _unreal_: instad of 8
10:32 PM Tom_L: might be cheaper to get the right pulley
10:32 PM _unreal_: Thats an option as wel
10:33 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
10:33 PM Tom_L: what series is that?
10:33 PM _unreal_: what series is what?
10:34 PM Tom_L: the pulley
10:34 PM _unreal_: you mean the thread?
10:34 PM _unreal_: I'm not sure I'd have to put the calipers to them
10:34 PM Tom_L: the belt should have a number on it
10:34 PM _unreal_: one sec
10:36 PM _unreal_: @#%@#$%!@#$ no numbers one sec
10:38 PM _unreal_: https://rodavigo.net/catalogos/GATES/Potencia%20ligera%20y%20precisi%C3%B3n/GATES%2007%20Correas%20de%20transmisi%C3%B3n%20PowerGrip%20Timing.pdf
10:38 PM _unreal_: 208xl
10:38 PM Tom_L: how many teeth?
10:38 PM _unreal_: many
10:39 PM _unreal_: I have a bunch of different belts they all fit
10:39 PM _unreal_: all have diff numbers
10:39 PM _unreal_: 222xl
10:40 PM _unreal_: I'm talking the timing belt
10:40 PM Tom_L: you said it's an XL series pulley
10:40 PM Tom_L: how many teeth do you need on it?
10:41 PM Tom_L: that's 1/5th " pitch btw
10:41 PM _unreal_: cheaper to buy pullies I GUESS :(
10:42 PM _unreal_: ALWAYS wanted to use these fuckers
10:42 PM Tom_L: maybe maybe not
10:42 PM _unreal_: https://www.robotdigg.com/category/9/page/4
10:42 PM Tom_L: but i didn't have pulleys so i bought mine
10:42 PM _unreal_: CHEAPER
10:42 PM _unreal_: then making parts to make the ones I have work
10:42 PM Tom_L: XL may be a bit big for your mill
10:44 PM _unreal_: that is whats on my servo motors
10:45 PM dirty_d: do stepper motor cables need to be shielded and grounded?
10:46 PM Tom_L: i shielded mine
10:46 PM Tom_L: as well as the stepper frame
10:46 PM dirty_d: https://www.amazon.com/Metal-Female-Connector-GX16-5-Aviation/dp/B07D235H6Z
10:46 PM XXCoder: heys
10:46 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, if your using encoders shielding is reccomended
10:46 PM Tom_L: dirty_d, i used those to connect my steppers
10:46 PM dirty_d: If i use that, would I just gonnect the shield to the connectors and use a 4 pin connector, or use a 5-pin and use the extra pin for the shield?
10:46 PM Tom_L: you can get all different numbers of pins
10:47 PM Tom_L: i shielded mine to the screw connector
10:47 PM dirty_d: is that steel wire?
10:47 PM Tom_L: no
10:47 PM dirty_d: did you just fold it backwards and let the clamp hold it?
10:48 PM Tom_L: you could i suppose
10:48 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control7.jpg
10:48 PM dirty_d: how are you actuall supposed to?
10:49 PM Tom_L: i didn't ask
10:49 PM dirty_d: i want mine to look like that, my old setup was a shit show
10:49 PM Tom_L: mine is not that pretty
10:49 PM Tom_L: it works very well though
10:50 PM dirty_d: its neat enough
10:50 PM _unreal_: I'm sure my working setup is a SHIT show compaired to yall's
10:50 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1J8gm1wh4DEiIFseUBme2xnSGNtxEDTAH
10:50 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control8.jpg
10:51 PM Tom_L: it has changed some from that
10:51 PM Tom_L: i don't need all those transformers
10:51 PM Tom_L: i'm sure one would have been plenty
10:51 PM Tom_L: but i was "planning ahead"
10:52 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, motor driver, motor controller, spindle driver, LED lamp driver, all on the left inside the plastic, PSU'S on the other side of the wall OUTSIDE.
10:52 PM _unreal_: other side of the machine behind the plastic is the motor wires breakout AND the limit switches breakout
10:52 PM Tom_L: my geckos are mounted on the door behind the heat sink
10:52 PM Tom_L: when the door is closed, the fan blows across it
10:53 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Control1.jpg
10:53 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qtyn36xbzOtYdjsWVXdHtWyrit9U4Nb2
10:53 PM Tom_L: that's more up to date but still a bit different
10:55 PM dirty_d: no flip flops in the work shop
10:55 PM Tom_L: 48v, 24v, 10v, and 5v supplies
10:56 PM _unreal_: I should take and upload a more finished photo of that contorller
10:56 PM _unreal_: but my working machine is a GEM of semi wire managment :)
10:57 PM Tom_L: mine was done on a budget
10:57 PM _unreal_: heh. i'm still budgeting
10:59 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/spindle_cooler/Mill2.jpg
10:59 PM Tom_L: not pretty but effective
11:07 PM jymmmm: Tom_L Nothing rainbox duct tape couldn't resolve
11:07 PM jymmmm: Tom_L what am I looking at?
11:07 PM Tom_L: your monitor?
11:07 PM XXCoder: $100,000 mill
11:08 PM Tom_L: my sherline converted mill
11:08 PM XXCoder: nah kidding
11:08 PM Tom_L: iirc that took ~4 weeks
11:09 PM jymmmm: Tom_L Oh, nice =)
11:10 PM Tom_L: most of the build is in those dirs
11:10 PM jymmmm: Tom_L I thought you had just added the plexi
11:10 PM Tom_L: oh heck no
11:11 PM XXCoder: 4 weeks to add plexi panels ;)
11:11 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_VMC.jpg
11:11 PM Tom_L: started with that
11:11 PM XXCoder: tom hows it been? I remembe ryou posting pics as you was building it lol
11:12 PM Tom_L: works good but i haven't used it in a while
11:14 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Base1.jpg
11:14 PM Tom_L: early stages of it
11:17 PM XXCoder: yeah remember that
11:17 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Welding/Column_Supports1.jpg
11:18 PM XXCoder: _unreal_: check those out
11:18 PM XXCoder: pretty cool
11:18 PM XXCoder: curious on how you trimmed it tho tom
11:18 PM dirty_d: why so much Y travel, it looks like it goes out way past where the spindle can reach, and it looks like the spindle cant reach the front of the table
11:18 PM XXCoder: head is quite long dirty
11:19 PM Tom_L: that's just how it ended up
11:19 PM XXCoder: around foot long outwards?
11:19 PM Tom_L: not quite
11:19 PM Tom_L: but there is more than enough Y
11:19 PM Tom_L: i got the rails & screws as a kit and i didn't wanna cut them all down
11:19 PM Tom_L: i did end up cutting one down
11:19 PM dirty_d: ahh
11:20 PM XXCoder: if you have excess y and spidle is toolchanger...
11:20 PM Tom_L: yeah
11:20 PM Tom_L: makes it nice for changing parts too
11:20 PM Tom_L: i kinda buit it with what i could get surplus
11:21 PM Tom_L: all that metal, alum & steel was from the scrap yard
11:24 PM XXCoder: its nice build
11:24 PM Tom_L: thanks
11:26 PM _unreal_: just finished doing the numbers. to have the machine company turn my threaded rods
11:27 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, check what out?
11:27 PM XXCoder: his build pictures
11:27 PM XXCoder: also, turn already threaded rods?
11:28 PM Tom_L: a bit tricky to get centered
11:29 PM XXCoder: I guess you used hammer some to trim iut
11:30 PM _unreal_: more or less I'm just going to have them turn the stainless threaded rod down from 1/2" to 8mm 30 some odd mm on one end and 120mm on the other
11:31 PM _unreal_: leaving 27.5" of 1/2" thread
11:31 PM _unreal_: err 37
11:31 PM XXCoder: no such thing as 8mm threaded can buy?
11:31 PM _unreal_: huh?
11:32 PM _unreal_: my ball bearings are 8mm ID
11:32 PM _unreal_: 8mm is just beyond the thread
11:33 PM XXCoder: so theres no such thing as stock 8mm allthread>?
11:33 PM _unreal_: there is but I'm not running clost to 40" of all thread at high rpm
11:33 PM _unreal_: it will whip
11:33 PM _unreal_: clost=close
11:34 PM _unreal_: I'm driving 1/2"
11:34 PM XXCoder: oh!
11:34 PM XXCoder: for ends onlky
11:34 PM _unreal_: right...
11:34 PM XXCoder: sorry thought you was making entire 8mm allthread out of 1.2
11:34 PM XXCoder: 1/4
11:34 PM XXCoder: 1/2 dammit lol
11:34 PM _unreal_: no...
11:34 PM _unreal_: its just for the end point mounts
11:34 PM XXCoder: yea yea
11:34 PM XXCoder: just forgot that lol
11:35 PM _unreal_: thats why I was saying I'd love to juet get the pulley centers made so I can use what i have on hand
11:35 PM _unreal_: if I buy stuff then I need to get idlers, etc...
11:38 PM XXCoder: cool :)
11:39 PM XXCoder: my laser engraver controller board is in calfornia now
11:39 PM XXCoder: too bad cable to connect laser properly location is still unknown
11:42 PM _unreal_: ve7it, welcome
11:43 PM _unreal_: arg..
11:43 PM XXCoder: ve is here
11:50 PM acer_ is now known as _unreal_
11:51 PM _unreal_: that was fun
11:51 PM _unreal_: dont know what that was all about
11:53 PM ve7it: _unreal_, hey... working on motors... just wiring up arduino
11:54 PM _unreal_: nifty
11:54 PM _unreal_: ve7it, never did get an answer the other day. do you think your servo drivers will have any speed issues or not likley?
11:54 PM ve7it: had a slight hitch... the cheap chineese clone unos usb serial ports were not recognized... found a driver
11:54 PM _unreal_: motors say 1150 RPM and the encoders are 256 line to 1000 ppr
11:55 PM ve7it: not likely.. those motors have been run for hundreds of hours with the driver
11:56 PM _unreal_: so not likely to loose steps even at max rpm?
11:56 PM _unreal_: like 20k steps/s
11:57 PM _unreal_: I'm just thinking about rapids
11:57 PM ve7it: I doubt it.... the guy that did the video uses it all the time and cuts aluminum.... he would have noticed dropped steps or position encoding
11:57 PM _unreal_: is all
11:57 PM _unreal_: good enough
11:58 PM _unreal_: I'm gearing the system down for power and to deal with the load. the X bridge is going to be heavy. Half of the Z hardware is going to be steel