#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 20 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:01 AM pascalrs: I'm confused as to which Linux distribution I should install for my Mesa Ethernet card
02:22 AM Deejay: moin
02:24 AM pascalrs: That's a very North Frisian thing to say. Moin.
03:50 AM Loetmichel: pascalrs_: mor like south of hannover... ;)
03:50 AM Loetmichel: +e
03:51 AM Loetmichel: same here: living in hessen, but the "moi moin" i learned when i was in the german navvy in flensburg 30 years ago still sticks with me. :-)
03:52 AM Loetmichel: Deejay isnt north frisian i wanted to say
04:55 AM Tom_L: morning
05:04 AM jymmmm: Happy Friday!!!
05:05 AM XXCoder: today was pretty bad work day lol
05:05 AM XXCoder: first thing I found out is mill 2 in cell broke its y cover
05:05 AM XXCoder: then few hours later whole cell disconnected
05:05 AM XXCoder: it stopped cell dead so I went to doosan
05:06 AM XXCoder: i was quite rusty on setup been a year since last one
05:06 AM XXCoder: so it took me 6 hours lol
05:06 AM XXCoder: then part wasnt too great and I ran out of time to fix. damn took a hit on my pride
05:07 AM XXCoder: (I followed suggestion on setup sheet but it didnt work great)
05:07 AM XXCoder: I hate leaving unfinished work so much :(
05:07 AM * jymmmm sprays WD-40 on XXCoder entire body so he won't be so rusty next time
05:07 AM * XXCoder dies
05:08 AM jymmmm: Well, you smell nice
05:09 AM XXCoder: awesome now im appealing for sense I dont have,
05:09 AM jymmmm: Does anyone know if (food grade) mineral oil would damage any/firearms finish/metals?
05:10 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: you can't smell?
05:10 AM XXCoder: nope
05:10 AM XXCoder: I won bonuses on body problems lottery heh
05:10 AM jymmmm: can you taste?
05:10 AM Tom_L: generally not
05:10 AM Tom_L: if one goes...
05:10 AM XXCoder: its messed with but I can
05:10 AM XXCoder: discrimation of different tastes dont really work
05:11 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: Oh good, then I can cook something shitty and you won't notice :)
05:11 AM XXCoder: oh I would notice
05:11 AM jymmmm: Damn
05:11 AM XXCoder: my sense of taste is insanely strong for person who cant smell
05:11 AM XXCoder: but very weak for person who can
05:11 AM jymmmm: makes sense
05:12 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: my wilfe always tells me that i am "nose deaf"... cant say thats true... also i can taste pretty well ;)
05:12 AM Loetmichel: -l
05:12 AM XXCoder: lol ya we have sign for it
05:13 AM XXCoder: its like deaf sign, but on side of nose
05:13 AM XXCoder: much smaller scale. touch bottom of nose side then nearer top
05:13 AM * Loetmichel thinks wife misinterprets my ignorance for bad smells with "deafness" ;)
05:14 AM XXCoder: :)
05:24 AM jthornton: morning
05:24 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:50 AM jymmmm: Water-Soluble Oil (???) Metalworking Fluid.... https://itwprofessionalbrands.com/litart/tech_644.pdf
05:51 AM XXCoder: jthornton: where di you buy rpi4?
05:51 AM XXCoder: I want to grab one
05:52 AM XXCoder: ebay ones is just ehh could be clones
05:59 AM sensille: with opi you have no problem with clones
06:00 AM XXCoder: hmm ok
06:00 AM XXCoder: im thinking that $55 package
06:01 AM XXCoder: well more with more ram and sdcard
06:01 AM XXCoder: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raspberry-Pi-4-B-1G-2G-4G-DIY-Kit-Official-Red-White-Case/283629803180
06:01 AM XXCoder: im not too sure how much cooling it needs
06:01 AM XXCoder: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raspberry-Pi-4-B-1G-2G-4G-DIY-Kit-with-Alloy-Metal-Heat-Case-Super-Quiet-NOOBS/283611723732 more colling but less protection
06:05 AM jthornton: yea, I got mine from amazon
06:06 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VFCB192
06:06 AM XXCoder: how hot does it get?
06:12 AM jthornton: does not get hot with the fan and there is a firmware upgrade now that fixes the heat issue but I've not had time to try it
06:12 AM XXCoder: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/S/aplus-media/sc/c8cee744-eb87-4dca-8013-9666d2c5a7c8.__CR0,0,970,600_PT0_SX970_V1___.jpg wow
06:12 AM XXCoder: shes holding it correctly. so many stock images show guy or lady holding it in metal area lol
06:12 AM XXCoder: jt your link is far better option
06:12 AM XXCoder: 5 bucks more for metal case with fan
06:12 AM XXCoder: https://www.amazon.com/Vilros-Raspberry-Complete-Fan-Cooled-Heavy-Duty/dp/B07XTQL6YZ
06:22 AM jthornton: I like that case
06:23 AM XXCoder: maybe they sell case only?
06:23 AM XXCoder: or eh collect em all lol
06:23 AM jthornton: you need to know that the fan gets plugged into the header so a 40 pin plug won't fit anymore
06:23 AM XXCoder: no problem since im using that one for laser engraver
06:23 AM XXCoder: making it total stand alone
06:26 AM XXCoder: its not like its suddenly useless, im also considering it for linuxcnc for cnc router
06:26 AM XXCoder: or both
06:27 AM XXCoder: ethernet MESA for latter
06:27 AM jthornton: yea get the 4GB version for LinuxCNC
06:28 AM XXCoder: ya 4 gb with metal case is what I ordered
08:28 AM skunkworks: XXCoder: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20191211_200010.jpg
09:48 AM Loetmichel: *gnhihi* just had the wireless dect on my table ringing... "31 jörg" an, the coworker... picked it up... *crushel knirz....* $me yelling across the priduction floor: "JÖRG! YOU HAVE BUTT-DIALLED AGAIN!"
11:24 AM jymmmm: The scariac... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9UjxG8sN1c
11:28 AM ziper: lol
11:35 AM ziper: i can't believe he measures the voltage with no load and concludes that it is a current limiting device and not just a rheostat that is in fact just causing a voltage drop
11:38 AM jymmmm: The voltage is constant
11:39 AM jymmmm: Realize that video isn't the "first take", he does a lot of off-camera things first
11:39 AM ziper: yeah, its constant with no load
11:40 AM ziper: if he measured it with the lightbulb hooked up you'd see that it isn't
11:40 AM jymmmm: and close under 200A load too
11:41 AM jymmmm: you have to look at his microwave welder videos
11:41 AM ziper: how could it be 200A when a house circuit is only 15
11:42 AM jymmmm: 240VAC
11:42 AM jymmmm: I think he was mesuaring the secondarys
11:42 AM ziper: its still not a current limiting device
11:43 AM jymmmm: why do you say that?
11:44 AM ziper: because its just a rheostat. all it does is produce a voltage divider with the load
11:44 AM ziper: and he is liable to damage the motors if he runs any tools like that
11:45 AM ziper: that being said i'm sure it works fine for the welder
11:47 AM Rab: A classic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_rheostat
01:41 PM XXCoder: skunkworks: not bad but what about it?
01:55 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: what about what?
01:55 PM XXCoder: guy linked a picture of rpi4
01:59 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: Maybe he made it :)
01:59 PM XXCoder: maybe but then I saw same design on ebay
01:59 PM XXCoder: stolen design? heh
01:59 PM jymmmm: maybe he's seeling em :)
01:59 PM jymmmm: selling*
01:59 PM XXCoder: sealing
01:59 PM andypugh: Link?
01:59 PM XXCoder: ;)
02:00 PM XXCoder: to picture or item I saw?
02:00 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: ARF ARF ARF
02:00 PM jymmmm: both
02:00 PM XXCoder: seal of approval
02:00 PM XXCoder: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20191211_200010.jpg
02:00 PM andypugh: Either. I have no idea what you are talking about :-)
02:00 PM XXCoder: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Raspberry-Pi-4-B-1G-2G-4G-DIY-Kit-with-Alloy-Metal-Heat-Case-Super-Quiet-NOOBS/283611723732
02:00 PM andypugh: I have the exact same heatsink on my Pi4.
02:01 PM XXCoder: I ordedred this one https://www.amazon.com/Vilros-Raspberry-Complete-Fan-Cooled-Heavy-Duty/dp/B07XTQL6YZ
02:01 PM jymmmm: fanless design
02:02 PM andypugh: I have heard that with the new firmware for the USB a passive cooler is perfectly adequate.
02:03 PM XXCoder: yeah
02:06 PM jymmmm: No SATA ports :(
02:06 PM jymmmm: I need 8
02:16 PM jymmmm: Has anyone heard of (food grade) mineral oil being "damaging" to anything?
02:16 PM SpeedEvil: yes
02:17 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: such as?
02:17 PM SpeedEvil: Adhesives.
02:17 PM SpeedEvil: (perhaps not a very sensible response)
02:17 PM andypugh: Fish drown in it.
02:17 PM SpeedEvil: Some rubbers absorb it from memory
02:17 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: what about metals, plastics, coatings?
02:18 PM SpeedEvil: 'all' metals should be fine with it
02:18 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: I'm thinking firearms mostly
02:19 PM jymmmm: blueing, polymer grips, sights, etc
02:49 PM kritterr: Hey, all - does linuxcnc have any support for any type of EDM?
03:00 PM kritterr: I'm working on an open source EDM and I'm wondering what open source software I can use with it.
03:24 PM andypugh: kritterr: LinuxCNC has been used with EDM. It even has a feature where negative input on the adaptive feed pin will run the path in reverse, which could be useful for wire EDM.
03:30 PM kritterr: Okay, that's the killer superbad feature everyone says I need dynomotion + kflop to use, so that's really good
03:31 PM andypugh: In theory you can process voltage / current in the HAL layer and derive an adaptive feed that way.
03:31 PM andypugh: I say “in theory” as I haven’t done it.
03:32 PM kritterr: I was going to set it up so that I was running the CNC portion with potentially grbl (ideally mega grbl for 5 axes), and have an Arduino act as the arc's "brain" - so LinuxCNC will talk to the arc generator to figure out if we're shorting/etc, and if it needs to back up, then tell grbl to get after it.
03:32 PM andypugh: So I don’t know what kind of processing the signal would need.
03:32 PM kritterr: Is that pretty much the right idea I have? Is that a sane and rational way to structure this process?
03:32 PM andypugh: No, that’s not going to work as LinuxCNC and GRBL do exactly the same thing.
03:33 PM kritterr: Ah, okay, I misunderstand linuxcnc then. So linuxcnc lives on the control board, not on my computer, then.
03:33 PM Rab: kritterr, LinuxCNC is a computer-based machine control. GRBL is an Arduino-based machine control.
03:33 PM kritterr: It seems linuxcnc can handle 5+ axis machines, though, so that's nice.
03:33 PM andypugh: LinuxCNC lives in the PC and all motion planning and control _also_ happens in the PC>
03:34 PM andypugh: Yes, LinuxCNC can do coordinated motion in 9 axes, and you can add 16(?) more for uncoordinated motion if required.
03:34 PM kritterr: Oh. I was kinda curious why people weren't doing that. I get that doing it on an external board made sense once when computers were slower, but I figured modern computers should be able to handle it.
03:34 PM kritterr: So that saves me yet-another arduino, then
03:35 PM andypugh: Well, LinuxCNC was a NIST project to get away from external and proprietary controllers.
03:35 PM andypugh: Back in the 90s, I think.
03:35 PM kritterr: So linuxcnc, on my computer, talks to my steppers. My arc generator talks to LinuxCNC, and now I have my basic working loop - sound about right?
03:35 PM andypugh: Since then the external devices (Arduino etc) have become very cheap, so the rationale has somewhat changed.
03:36 PM andypugh: Yes, that’s right.
03:36 PM kritterr: Alright. What hardware do I need between my steppers and my computer, then?
03:37 PM kritterr: since i've never actually run any CNC tool of any kind that didn't have grbl or marlin or whatever
03:37 PM andypugh: Cheapest and worst is the parallel port
03:37 PM jdh: stepper drivers.
03:37 PM andypugh: PC - Parallel port - stepper drivers - stepper motors
03:38 PM Rab: A few people have come in here wanting to use LinuxCNC as a gcode sender for GRBL, for what reason I know not. But AFAIK there is no capacity to do that, and if you just need a gcode sender, you don't really need LinuxCNC.
03:38 PM kritterr: to me, a stepper driver is a TB6600 (etc) - is the actual control board on my printer and mill referred to as a stepper driver, or do we mean like...the actual hbridge-level thing
03:38 PM andypugh: By all means experiment with p-port if you have one, it’s zero investment. I wouldn’t recommend it for the final answer though.
03:39 PM kritterr: I definitely need linuxcnc, unless I wanna shell out for a kflop
03:39 PM kritterr: due to that sweet sweet reverse drive
03:39 PM kritterr: I don't think any other solution except those two will do it.
03:39 PM andypugh: TB6600 is a step interpreter and H bridge combo. That’s what we mean by stepper driver.
03:40 PM andypugh: reverse-run demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aYaHxT6ZnQ
03:40 PM kritterr: Ah. So what's the cheap Chinese solution a step up from parallel port?
03:41 PM kritterr: Oh, that's perfect.
03:41 PM andypugh: There isn’t much from China in that space.
03:41 PM kritterr: i also am reasonably sure i've never even seen a parallel port irl
03:41 PM kritterr: so there's that
03:41 PM JT-Shop: https://mesaus.com/product/7i96/
03:42 PM kritterr: Are any of these boards open source?
03:42 PM kritterr: I'm trying real hard to keep everything open source.
03:43 PM andypugh: But Mesa are not that expensive. For something sparky and noisy I would look at Ethernet-connected interfaces, such as: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=302
03:43 PM andypugh: Mesa is open-source software and closed-source hardware.
03:43 PM kritterr: I will probably prototype with those. What's the downside of the parallel port, anyway? Seems like it'd save the user 100 bucks if I could get it to work.
03:43 PM andypugh: Well, semi-closed source. Peoiple have made their own clones, and Peter from Mesa has helped them do it.
03:44 PM Rab: kritterr, here's a writeup by someone connecting a LinuxCNC PC to TB6600 drivers via parallel port. Note that they have a cheap parport breakout board to interface the parport signals with the drivers. https://lauri.võsandi.com/2016/07/linuxcnc.html
03:45 PM andypugh: kritterr: Many PCs still have a parallel header on the motherbaord, even if it isn’t taken to the back panel.
03:45 PM kritterr: also i only use tb6600's because they were the first ones that popped up on amazon
03:45 PM kritterr: so i'm not attached to them per se
03:45 PM andypugh: TB6600 is a better device than TB6560 at least.
03:46 PM kritterr: So am I gonna wind up with a lot of EMF if I use parallel port control?
03:46 PM Rab: kritterr, short answer is that some parports work better than others. If you don't want to mess with finding a motherboard that works right, you can buy a step generator card (e.g. the Mesa line) that does that part in an FPGA.
03:46 PM andypugh: Not necessarily, but you might have to be more careful.
03:47 PM kritterr: Excuse me if this is a dumb question, but is there any reason we can't break USB out to parallel?
03:47 PM kritterr: i assume that somewhere in this process, some computational heavy lifting is required
03:47 PM andypugh: It’s not a dumb question.
03:47 PM kritterr: I don't totally understand why tho
03:47 PM Rab: kritterr, not a dumb question. The answer is that USB introduces overhead and non-deterministic delay that prevent LinuxCNC from controlling the machine in real time.
03:47 PM andypugh: But USB allows for mutli-mS latency.
03:48 PM kritterr: so that's bad for my use, because then i might short for, say 100ms instead of 10ms
03:48 PM andypugh: USB is fast enough (by orders of magnitude) but LinuxCNC can’t control _when_ the data is sent.
03:49 PM kritterr: So put simply, it sends G28 X0 Y0 but we don't know when exactly news of this reaches the steppers over USB?
03:49 PM andypugh: Mach3 uses the USB smoothstepper by the simple expedient of moving all the motion planning to the far side of the USB link.
03:49 PM Rab: kritterr, correct.
03:49 PM andypugh: And that _really_ won’t work for your situation where you want real-time signal processing and adaptive feed.
03:50 PM kritterr: Alright, mesa board it is. That works for everyone. I wonder if a raspberry pi can do this.
03:50 PM andypugh: Yes.
03:51 PM andypugh: Pi4 works perfectly adequately with USB Mesa hardware.
03:51 PM andypugh: Oops! Not USB, Ethernet
03:51 PM andypugh: But it has to be the Pi4, because the Pi3 and earlier have the Ethernet on a USB bus, not a PCI bus.
03:51 PM jdh: andypugh: with local display?
03:51 PM kritterr: So linuxcnc on a pi, any way to do it without the mesa?
03:52 PM kritterr: Direct pi->steppers?
03:52 PM andypugh: You can use Pi GPIO pins to step.
03:52 PM kritterr: well, pi -> stepper drivers
03:53 PM andypugh: (Or, I think you can, give me a moment)
03:53 PM kritterr: ty
03:53 PM kritterr: i'm watching a video where this is sort of done
03:54 PM andypugh: You need the dev version of LinuxCNC. hal_pi_gpio was only added recently.
03:54 PM andypugh: (ie 2.8 onwards)
03:54 PM kritterr: In terms of time investment, should I just go with the mesa board?
03:54 PM andypugh: Probably :-)
03:55 PM andypugh: Then you can (I think) use the config wizard rather than rolling your own HAL.
03:55 PM kritterr: Will do. Alright, got my power supply stuff and a mesa coming then.
03:55 PM andypugh: Unless you have a parport? That’s really easy to configure with a (different) wizard
03:55 PM kritterr: Already have a mess of baby 3018 cnc mills and steppers and extrusions for now
03:56 PM kritterr: I probably do, but my linux is Qubes
03:56 PM kritterr: And idk if you've met Qubes but that sounds like something Qubes might make difficult
03:56 PM kritterr: because it does that for everything
03:56 PM andypugh: If you can install debs, then I think it could be done.
03:56 PM andypugh: But I bet it _hates_ you installing special kernels?
03:58 PM andypugh: dinner time. I will scrool back.
03:58 PM andypugh: (scroll)
03:59 PM kritterr: I can imagine few tasks harder than creating a VM with a special kernel on qubes
03:59 PM kritterr: also ty for the advice all
04:01 PM andypugh: I think that vitualisation would break realtime. I run LinuxCNC VMs on my Mac and they would _never_ run a machine properly.
04:02 PM andypugh: Have you found the LinuxCNC docs? Plenty to read there to keep you busy :-)
04:02 PM kritterr: i'll install it on a ubuntu system i have kicking around here somewhere
04:02 PM andypugh: Look at installing 2.8 for the reverse-run: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/
04:03 PM kritterr: Thanks.
04:03 PM kritterr: bbl
04:03 PM andypugh: Hmm, possibly you need 2.9, ie full dev version.
04:04 PM andypugh: (just looking at the docs: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/motion.9.html )
04:34 PM JT-Shop: hmm I need to draw a flowchart, any recommendations for software in linux
04:37 PM Rab: Inkscape, Dia https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Dia
04:38 PM Rab: There's some other stuff purpose-made for flowcharts, but I don't remember names.
04:39 PM Rab: xfig if you like Motif/punishment.
04:43 PM Deejay: gn8
04:45 PM JT-Shop: thanks
04:45 PM * JT-Shop is so tired he turned down pizza!!!
04:45 PM JT-Shop: I'll dia in the am
04:46 PM XXCoder: good morning
04:49 PM JT-Shop: morning, I'm back from Cuba
04:50 PM XXCoder: yay
04:52 PM JT-Shop: poka-yolk was a smooth install and the customer is happy
04:52 PM JT-Shop: I have a few tweaks to do after the holidays then I get to make a second one
04:57 PM XXCoder: sucks that I have bad memory and bad movatiator
05:03 PM JT-Shop: I'm usually motivated but my short term memory is not as good as it used to be
05:04 PM XXCoder: in my case its retain level of memory
05:12 PM _unreal_: so I'm very dumb founded. my Tnuts showed up FINALLY today
05:12 PM _unreal_: my screws fit the nuts fine
05:12 PM _unreal_: they DONT fit the rails
05:12 PM _unreal_: WTF
05:12 PM XXCoder: sorry you have too much courage and your nuts is too big
05:13 PM XXCoder: china machine?
05:13 PM XXCoder: sometimes their standards is just weird
05:13 PM _unreal_: so i ordered MGN15H https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33056324293.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.70714c4dDq3q6K
05:13 PM _unreal_: and I have m4 screws
05:13 PM _unreal_: am I missing something or reading the requirements worng?
05:14 PM _unreal_: My m4 screws fit my m4 tnuts fine thread in no issue
05:14 PM _unreal_: both the THREAD and the HEAD of the screws wont fit the mounting holes AT ALL
05:14 PM XXCoder: good question
05:14 PM _unreal_: thread is JUST two small
05:14 PM _unreal_: err
05:14 PM _unreal_: large
05:15 PM _unreal_: and the head has a full MM
05:18 PM _unreal_: ?
05:18 PM XXCoder: I wonder if its just case of them making mistake on m4 standards
05:19 PM XXCoder: if you have lathe you could strunk head to fit
05:19 PM XXCoder: dunno on thread
05:20 PM _unreal_: I'd have to drill the holes
05:20 PM _unreal_: I COULD put the screws in a drill and run down the head on the bench grinder
05:21 PM _unreal_: correct me if I'm wrong but it says m4 ya?
05:21 PM XXCoder: it dont show anywhere in that aliexpress?
05:23 PM _unreal_: damn I hate to drill those holes
05:23 PM _unreal_: hardened steel
05:24 PM XXCoder: better to just strunk bolts
05:25 PM _unreal_: I'M NOT ordering more tnuts
05:25 PM _unreal_: I just lost 10 days waiting
05:25 PM XXCoder: no no
05:25 PM jthornton: make them
05:25 PM XXCoder: bolts themselves so it can fit in
05:25 PM XXCoder: lathe off excess on bolt heads
05:25 PM _unreal_: I dont have a lathe
05:25 PM jthornton: why do you need a lathe to make T nuts?
05:25 PM _unreal_: jthornton, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33056324293.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.70714c4dDq3q6K
05:26 PM _unreal_: MGN15H
05:26 PM _unreal_: says on the page m4
05:26 PM _unreal_: if it doesnt then it did at the time of purhcase
05:26 PM XXCoder: _unreal_: I uses search, found no m4 word?
05:26 PM _unreal_: I ordered the rails ? 2 months ago now
05:27 PM _unreal_: so I ordered the m4 tnuts and m4 screws
05:27 PM XXCoder: aliexpress order page click on your order
05:27 PM XXCoder: it will show orginial text etc at time of your order
05:27 PM _unreal_: AAH AH HAAAA found my shipping papers YES it says m4 screws
05:28 PM jthornton: if you didn't get the parts you ordered then dispute it asap
05:29 PM _unreal_: I just cut the rails
05:29 PM _unreal_: I got the parts
05:29 PM _unreal_: though I think its written as a GENERAL m4
05:29 PM _unreal_: ? oh thats new
05:30 PM _unreal_: there is an image on the page that has dimentions
05:31 PM _unreal_: well I guess I have to drill the holse and grind the heads of the scrws
05:31 PM _unreal_: fuck
05:32 PM XXCoder: can make "lathe" with mill if you has mill
05:32 PM XXCoder: use grinder wheel attachment on mill
05:33 PM _unreal_: why would I do that when as I said I can just put the screws into a cordless drill and buzz the heads on my bench grinder
05:33 PM _unreal_: not great but it would be accurate enough
05:33 PM _unreal_: well I'm going to hit the showers and think about it for a bit
05:33 PM XXCoder: yeah
05:34 PM Tom_L: don't slip on the soap
05:36 PM XXCoder: yeah deformed soap is annoying
05:36 PM XXCoder: ;)
05:36 PM jthornton: don't knock the soap off the handrail on the porch either... gritty soap sucks
05:37 PM Tom_L: bring cigars back from cuba?
05:38 PM jthornton: could not find any cigars there, the rollers must be on strike
05:39 PM jthornton: interesting that there was a huge cigar factory in Key West
05:49 PM * jthornton retires for the evening to the couch
06:29 PM TurBoss: yo is back
06:32 PM XXCoder: yo
06:44 PM jymmmm: yo ho ho
06:45 PM XXCoder: in news santa was arrested because he was going around saying ho ho ho
06:46 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: No was just calling YOU a ho, you ho!
06:46 PM XXCoder: lol
06:49 PM Tom_L: my kid thinks santa is a pedafile. think about it.. he's an old man watching your kids all year then he breaks in climbs down your chimney in the middle of the night while you're all sleeping and steals your cookies
06:50 PM XXCoder: he has a list, and checks it twice
06:51 PM jymmmm: Tom_L Um, then what does that make you Dec 25th at 1am?
06:52 PM andypugh: “He’s making a list, he’s checking it twice. Santa is in breach of the EU General Data Protection regulations”
06:53 PM jymmmm: andypugh: SMH, lol
06:54 PM XXCoder: lol
07:37 PM Rab: _unreal_
07:37 PM Rab: #linuxcnc.12-05.log:17:06 <Rab> _unreal_, those rails are metric. The holes in the MGN15 rails look like they're sized for M3 cap head screws. Here are M3 t-nuts: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KSCKJP1
08:18 PM kritterr: For an EDM type machine, I expect loads to be very light and accelerations to be low, and generally for duty to be light. A book I'm reading insists that EDM requires ballscrews instead of leadscrews.
08:18 PM kritterr: Is that probably true still?
08:19 PM andypugh: I would have thought so
08:19 PM andypugh: It’s a backlash thing
08:20 PM kritterr: I have only had machines with ball screws. How much less accurate/repeatable are lead screws in general?
08:21 PM andypugh: Well, a very good lead screw is probably more accurate than an average ballscrew.
08:22 PM andypugh: The issue is purely one of backlash. When the machine backs-out (sink EDM or wire) you want the movement to be immediate, not some clearance later.
08:23 PM kritterr: I was also concerned about repeatability - putting a very small electrode back in more or less the same spot.
08:24 PM andypugh: Should be equal, if coming from the same direction.
08:24 PM XXCoder: 3d printers you can get anti backlash nut
08:24 PM kritterr: hi XXCoder
08:24 PM Rab: I believe you can pretty easily dial in even an average leadscrew to have effectively zero backlash--more than possible with a ballscrew, which needs a non-zero clearance for the balls. But it might not stay that way for very long.
08:24 PM XXCoder: its basically a spring so both sides of thread is used
08:24 PM andypugh: Even allthread rod is _repeatable_ even if it isn’t accurate.
08:24 PM XXCoder: lemme get a example
08:25 PM kritterr: I think I actually have some anti-backlash nuts and lead screws laying around
08:25 PM XXCoder: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32762831143.html
08:25 PM XXCoder: thats for acme
08:25 PM kritterr: How quickly does drift change?
08:25 PM XXCoder: ideally spring should be under good torsion
08:25 PM kritterr: er
08:25 PM kritterr: How quickly does backlash drift with those designs?
08:25 PM XXCoder: and it should be together enough to slot in (see grooves?)
08:27 PM kritterr: Yes. I have one of these - I must have assembled it wrong, haha.
08:28 PM XXCoder: is yours fairly close together?
08:28 PM _unreal_: well some good news some bad news. "The good" just finished the last hole. drilling hardened steel SUCK!!! the bad news looks like my father isnt likely doing well. "colon cancer.
08:28 PM kritterr: Nope.
08:28 PM kritterr: I done messed it up good
08:28 PM XXCoder: ohh yeah gonna fix that :)
08:28 PM XXCoder: _unreal_: sucks :(
08:28 PM XXCoder: my dad died by blood cancer and my grandfather, porsite cancer
08:29 PM XXCoder: (latter likely caused by nukes)
08:30 PM kritterr: XXCoder, how u been bro
08:30 PM XXCoder: fine, they died quite a while ago
08:30 PM XXCoder: miss em but time fades grief a lot
08:30 PM kritterr: No, I meant you.
08:30 PM kritterr: Been awhile.
08:30 PM XXCoder: ahh meh work and sleep lol
08:31 PM kritterr: I'm working on an open source EDM. Then at least I can die a real high-voltage death.
08:31 PM XXCoder: lol
08:31 PM XXCoder: im getting laser machime
08:31 PM XXCoder: hope I dont blind myself. I have few senses as it is.
08:32 PM kritterr: I recall. I was thinking about that syndrome just the other day, actually.
08:33 PM kritterr: but get sick laser glasses anyway, or you'll get sick Ray Charles glasses
08:33 PM XXCoder: kit coms with it not sure how well I can trust it.
08:33 PM XXCoder: im also waiting for rpi4 to run the laser toy
08:34 PM kritterr: Supposedly linuxcnc works on rpi4 now.
08:34 PM XXCoder: thats second reason
08:34 PM XXCoder: I wouldnt get it if it didnt have second reason
08:34 PM kritterr: I should probably actually try to run linuxcnc on my cnc mill before I start designing machines based around linuxcnc
08:34 PM kritterr: as i've never successfully cut anything with it
08:35 PM kritterr: Turns out CNC milling is a bit harder than 3D printing. Shocking.
08:35 PM XXCoder: lol yep
08:35 PM XXCoder: I have idea of making linuxcnc rp4 and cnc controls and screen kit
08:36 PM XXCoder: but I have zero skills on designing that
08:36 PM kritterr: Eh, that's a great idea and I don't think it sounds that hard
08:36 PM XXCoder: yea just lousy skills and movation
08:37 PM XXCoder: I'd make it open source design and sell kits also
08:37 PM kritterr: I'd buy that on Amazon for 100 bucks. If it was an all-in-one "connect to your mill and go" solution.
08:37 PM XXCoder: it'd have to be more than 100
08:37 PM XXCoder: but not a whole lot like $150
08:37 PM kritterr: Hell, I'd spend 110.
08:37 PM XXCoder: it comes with bunch of buttons, knobs, and encoder wheel
08:37 PM XXCoder: scree, rpi4
08:37 PM XXCoder: and of course case itselfd
08:38 PM kritterr: You should make one for yourself, print the case, and see if others want it
08:38 PM XXCoder: still dont have functional printer still waiting for kodoma
08:39 PM kritterr: ...the Japanese spirit?
08:39 PM kritterr: The dryad things?
08:39 PM XXCoder: lol no its company
08:40 PM kritterr: Oh.
08:40 PM XXCoder: makes trinus and still making obsidian to ship to kickstarters
08:40 PM kritterr: Quick question about parallel ports
08:40 PM kritterr: https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Breakout-Board-Stepper-Driver/dp/B0093Y897A/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=5+axis+stepper+driver&qid=1576889443&sr=8-1#customerReviews
08:40 PM kritterr: I can drive my stepper drivers from this, right?
08:40 PM XXCoder: looks like standard BOB
08:40 PM XXCoder: yeah
08:40 PM XXCoder: what drivers you getting?
08:41 PM kritterr: please don't let me get TB6600s
08:41 PM XXCoder: aliexpress its so much cheaper
08:41 PM kritterr: i will if nobody stops me
08:41 PM XXCoder: like 5 bucks? been a while
08:41 PM XXCoder: long ship tho
08:41 PM kritterr: ali and i aren't on commerce terms right now
08:41 PM kritterr: They're making me log in to search
08:42 PM XXCoder: thats odd
08:42 PM XXCoder: im not logged in and searching fine
08:42 PM Rab: kritterr, get this: https://www.geckodrive.com/g540-4-axis-digital-stepper-drive.html
08:42 PM XXCoder: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20191220183511&SearchText=5+axis+breakout
08:43 PM kritterr: The gecko drive is great but out of my price range - for that price I'd get a kmotion
08:43 PM kritterr: Ali is still redirecting me. How rude.
08:43 PM kritterr: Multiple browsers.
08:44 PM XXCoder: strange
08:45 PM kritterr: apparently this happens to some people
08:45 PM kritterr: probably based on some sort of super mediocre Chinese AI copy of Jack Ma's brain
08:45 PM jymmmm: kritterr: The g540 is a controller AND drivers and breakout, etc
08:46 PM XXCoder: kill aliexpress cookies
08:46 PM XXCoder: you can kill specific cookies if in firefox
08:46 PM kritterr: jymmmm, i'm trying to use minimal solutions (for now)
08:46 PM kritterr: I'm not opposed by any means to geckodrive, but for an open source EDM, it makes sense to reduce hardware requirements, right?
08:47 PM jymmmm: kritterr: EVERYONE does at first, then ALWAYS says "I should have just..." later on
08:47 PM kritterr: I was going to go with a Mesa (after dicking around with a parallel port)
08:47 PM kritterr: (mostly because I just want to)
08:48 PM jymmmm: You can use a mesa and gcko drivers, the G540 is just all inclusive is all
08:48 PM kritterr: Also, strictly speaking, this is 6 axis, but one of the axes does nothing but rotate the electrode
08:48 PM jymmmm: ah ok
08:49 PM kritterr: It's relatively easy to throw another axis on an EDM machine because they don't need to be built strong.
08:49 PM kritterr: Well, easier than on a real mill, anyway.
08:50 PM kritterr: https://www.amazon.com/200KHz-Control-Controller-Breakout-Stepper/dp/B076JBMGP5?th=1 What about something like this?
08:51 PM kritterr: For my own machine, I'm certainly not opposed to doing it right, I just want to include some sort of minimal solution as well.
08:52 PM kritterr: What drivers does the gecko have?
08:54 PM Rab: Like the physical semiconductors?
08:54 PM kritterr: Yes, but I'm realizing it was a silly question
08:54 PM kritterr: because those are meant to drive real mills
08:54 PM kritterr: so of course they'd be able to drive an EDM
08:55 PM Rab: I don't think they talk about it. But the interface is as generic and non-proprietary as it gets.
08:55 PM kritterr: What are my options for 6 axis control?
08:56 PM kritterr: XYZ, A and B (on the table) and the electrode axis.
08:56 PM Rab: Qty/6 Geckodrive G201X or TB6600?
08:56 PM kritterr: Six TB6600's it is.
08:57 PM Rab: Or if the machine is really lightweight, those little Allegro drivers Pololu etc sell.
08:57 PM kritterr: I was kinda thinking that.
08:57 PM kritterr: Because the steppers experience basically no force and almost never move quickly at all.
08:58 PM kritterr: My printer has some sort of melzi board, not sure quite what, but this thing will move a lot slower than that.
09:02 PM Rab: Can't get much cheaper! https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B075XH1TSJ
09:03 PM elmo40: kritterr, 6-axis printer?
09:03 PM elmo40: robot arm?
09:03 PM kritterr: EDM
09:03 PM elmo40: cool
09:03 PM elmo40: i haven't touched one of those in... maybe 18 years!
09:03 PM kritterr: it's way way less impressive than it sounds
09:04 PM XXCoder: drv8835 ehhh
09:04 PM XXCoder: it have flaw at certain range of motion, you would need set of diodes to dix that
09:05 PM elmo40: what are the 6-axis?
09:05 PM elmo40: in an EDM
09:11 PM kritterr: XYZ, A and B on the table, and one that does nothing but rotate the electrode
09:12 PM elmo40: a wire feeder?
09:13 PM kritterr: Sinker/RAM.
09:13 PM kritterr: afaik relatively few people have tried a multi-axis sinker EDM - seems like almost all sinker EDMs are made using complex electrodes in one axis.
09:16 PM elmo40: faster?
09:16 PM kritterr: this one will likely be much, much slower
09:20 PM Rab: lol https://austin.craigslist.org/for/d/cedar-park-south-bend-lathe/7037817185.html
09:20 PM Rab: I can smell the rat poop through the screen.
09:21 PM XXCoder: thats very safely rusted
09:22 PM infornography: very good condition
09:23 PM kritterr: you can do up to 28 inch gun barrels!
09:23 PM XXCoder: yeah rust is certainly in very good condition
09:23 PM kritterr: do = put the bar stock on the lathe and watch it sit there
09:24 PM infornography: look like a machinist
09:24 PM infornography: belt may explode
09:36 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest45471
09:37 PM elmo40: http://qurl.org/fnV
09:37 PM elmo40: this is what i want to own/make!!
10:33 PM _unreal_: after much cursing and swaring the rails are on
10:33 PM _unreal_: not TUNED or aligned but ON
10:33 PM _unreal_: wow that took a long time
10:34 PM _unreal_: all the holes where drilled
10:34 PM _unreal_: in the rails
10:34 PM _unreal_: M'F'ER to do that
10:34 PM _unreal_: all the heads on the screws were ground down
10:35 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, I "" DO "" have a lathe in the house but it has no motor to drive it. and its missing some small round style drive belts
10:35 PM XXCoder: drat
10:35 PM Tom_L: why did you have to grind the screw heads?
10:36 PM Tom_L: the rails should acomodate standard screws
10:36 PM XXCoder: it should, it said m4 orginially
10:37 PM XXCoder: but apparently it could be m3 and hes out of time
10:41 PM _unreal_: they were far to large to fit
10:42 PM _unreal_: the thread could not have been any more then 1/4 mm to large
10:42 PM XXCoder: whats you do about threads? hround it down?
10:44 PM Tom_L: iirc mine were M5
10:48 PM fjungclaus1 is now known as fjungclaus
10:51 PM XXCoder: he using quite small rail
10:51 PM Tom_L: yeah i question that
10:51 PM XXCoder: 12mm ones I think
11:11 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
11:24 PM elmo40: 12 is tiny!
11:24 PM elmo40: only M3 to hold those in?
11:27 PM elmo40: and 7 is the smallest.
11:30 PM elmo40: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB15WTWihTpK1RjSZFMq6zG_VXaV.jpg
11:30 PM elmo40: see here
11:31 PM elmo40: wow. M2 for #7 rail. M3 for up to #15 rail. I can't believe how tiny that it.
11:31 PM elmo40: my cooling fan is held with M3!
11:59 PM XXCoder: I wonder what uses 7 one lol