#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 18 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:36 AM veegee_: I'm going to disassemble the Bridgeport I'm buying so I can load it onto my trailer and then into my basement via an engine crane
01:40 AM veegee_: The seller let me use his shop to disassemble it first
01:40 AM veegee_: Any tips on a good place to start disassembling it?
01:40 AM veegee_: I'm going to take the head off, the table, the knee, etc.
01:42 AM veegee_ is now known as veegee
02:24 AM Deejay: moin
05:00 AM Tom_L: morning
05:00 AM Tom_L: 18, Hi 48
05:03 AM XXCoder: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000mW-Desktop-Laser-Engraving-Machine-Logo-Marking-Printer-Engraver-Cutting-NEW/372607102774
05:03 AM XXCoder: interesting
05:03 AM XXCoder: might get it for toy'
05:14 AM jthornton: morning
05:14 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:14 AM Tom_L: hi
05:14 AM XXCoder: what you think of toy linked here
05:17 AM Tom_L: dude with the welder also had a $22 40w laser and he closed up shop
05:17 AM XXCoder: saw it. yeah fucked up feedback made me say no
05:25 AM jthornton: 86 negative feedbacks in the last month...
05:25 AM XXCoder: oh wow
05:26 AM XXCoder: 873 in year
05:31 AM XXCoder: overall, 97.3% good
05:31 AM XXCoder: so chances its fine
05:50 AM XXCoder: lol https://www.ebay.com/itm/100PC-Laser-Mark-Flat-Engraved-Aluminium-Alloy-Name-Blank-Card-Business-Visiting/264471987204
05:50 AM XXCoder: perfect thing to go with engraver
05:50 AM XXCoder: bunch of cheap alu cards
06:32 AM XXCoder: jthornton: https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Desktop-Laser-Engraving-Machine-DIY-Marking-Printer-Engraver-Cutting-2000mW/293282771022
06:33 AM XXCoder: bit better feedbacks but larger number bad feedbacks lol
06:34 AM XXCoder: same price but no "sleath" shipping price
06:36 AM jthornton: looks like the same one
06:36 AM XXCoder: it is
06:36 AM XXCoder: different seller
06:36 AM jthornton: be nice to see just the feedback for that item
06:37 AM XXCoder: looking at amazon
06:39 AM XXCoder: prices on amazon lol
06:39 AM XXCoder: feedback is all about shitty software
06:39 AM XXCoder: ill just use linuxcnc I think heh
06:41 AM XXCoder: ... on rspi4. yeah hmmm
06:41 AM XXCoder: make it super portable lol
07:19 AM Tom_L: same seller different alias :)
07:20 AM XXCoder: maybe
07:20 AM Tom_L: or his cousin vinnie
07:22 AM XXCoder: btw black death is back
07:22 AM XXCoder: its in china now
07:57 AM Deejay: re
09:56 AM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
10:14 AM jymmmm: Good morning folks!!!
10:19 AM Rab: Good morning jymmmm!
10:25 AM jymmmm: :)
10:35 AM gregcnc: -11°C
10:36 AM gregcnc: but weekend looks well above freezing
10:38 AM jymmmm: what is that in F?
10:38 AM jymmmm: 12.2f brrrr
10:39 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: Got magnesium engine block to keep warm by?
10:40 AM gregcnc: eh not that bad
10:41 AM jymmmm: yeah it iss, where are you again???
10:41 AM gregcnc: Chicago
10:41 AM jymmmm: eeeeeeeesh
10:42 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: Do you have all those abandond factories out there?
10:43 AM gregcnc: i'm out in the suburbs, no idea, most of that has been/is being demoed or converted to living space
10:46 AM jymmmm: ah ok
10:46 AM jymmmm: high rise?
10:46 AM gregcnc: not quite like detroit
10:47 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: Well, already or mostly demo'ed is not a bad thing.... I was mostly suggesting getting cheap land, and if a building with lots of windows exist, on the south side, you could do geothermal and start a nursery
10:49 AM gregcnc: surprisingly there are a few rather large greenhouses, and I think a couple in the city
10:49 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: nothing like free 52F heat all year long :)
10:49 AM gregcnc: i watched that nebraska video. Somebody down the street just put in a geothermal well
10:50 AM gregcnc: for their house
10:50 AM jymmmm: hows it working for them?
10:51 AM gregcnc: don't know them. saw a drill rig on a lot and we have city water.
10:52 AM jymmmm: septic?
10:52 AM gregcnc: city sewer
10:53 AM gregcnc: rig had some "green" company name
10:53 AM jymmmm: Ok, yeah, I saw another geothermal using water and a helix of 1 to 2" tubing about 10ft long. then you can just use an auger to bury them
10:54 AM gregcnc: yeah a lot of them
10:54 AM jymmmm: That way, you don't have to excavate or dig ditches
10:54 AM jymmmm: Well, I guess it really depends on how long each one is
10:56 AM jymmmm: The water would collect/extracted more heat, but I like the air one better myself for what it is
10:56 AM jymmmm: no glycol or pumps to deal with
10:57 AM jymmmm: cause swamp coolers are much cheaper/simpler to me
11:00 AM gregcnc: if the coil isn't in the water table, you need a lot of area
11:04 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: I thought you do NOT want it in the water table?
11:04 AM jymmmm: apx 8ft down
11:04 AM gregcnc: for air
11:05 AM jymmmm: But you do for water system?
11:05 AM gregcnc: there are different methods
11:06 AM gregcnc: if the lot isn't big enough you have to go down
11:12 AM jymmmm: This is NOT what I was talking about, but interesting still... https://youtu.be/1NfJMnrG3WM?t=270
11:14 AM jymmmm: That's a huge heat pump or whatever it is. What I don't get is how they are "adding" the suplimental heat to the geothermal
11:14 AM jymmmm: I guess there is a heat exchanger in there somewhere
11:16 AM jymmmm: Wow $47 from $157
11:28 AM jymmmm: Well fuck a duck... CVS pharamacy, the one the survived the fire last year is closing Jan 2. -sigh-
11:32 AM gregcnc: they probably still have the propane furnace
11:33 AM gregcnc: for geothermal, the part that goes into the ground is just a heat exchanger
11:34 AM jymmmm: The put in a whole new HVAC unit
11:35 AM jymmmm: Well the coils in the ground are one HE (heat exchanger), but what about from 54f to a cozy 74F ?
11:35 AM gregcnc: Ok, often these just have a resistance heating element to suplement
11:36 AM jymmmm: Ewwwwwwww, I HATE those
11:36 AM gregcnc: heat pump moves the heat from the ground to the house (ac unit in reverse)
11:36 AM jymmmm: 5FIFTY FUCKING AMPS just to run those heating elements!
11:37 AM jymmmm: yeah, it's like a two stage HE
11:37 AM gregcnc: if you compare the size of your condensor outside, that now has to be inside, and often your are talking BTU rating 3-4 times an AC unit
11:38 AM gregcnc: electric heat sucks
11:38 AM jymmmm: In the summer, it's a no brainer, but winter, you need suplimental heat on top of the 54F
11:40 AM jymmmm: that much glycol is crazy. I wouldn't mind in an under floor heating, but damn
11:40 AM gregcnc: you understand how a window AC works?
11:40 AM jymmmm: yeah
11:41 AM gregcnc: in winter you mount it so the hot end in inside
11:41 AM jymmmm: yeah
11:41 AM gregcnc: that's heat pump
11:41 AM jymmmm: reverseing valve and all that. I have a heat pump now.
11:41 AM jymmmm: That's why I know about the heat strips sadly
11:42 AM gregcnc: instead of taking outdoor air at ambient it takes gournd temp at 54°F
11:42 AM jymmmm: In goes into defrost mode at 45F
11:42 AM gregcnc: yeah that too
11:42 AM jymmmm: Ok, silly question...........
11:43 AM gregcnc: you aren't heating 54° air with resistance heat
11:43 AM jymmmm: I have my 20yo HVAC heat pump, and lets say I was able to tcreate a (air?) geothermal setup like those nebraska video, how could I incorporate them tigether in the winter?
11:45 AM gregcnc: the outdoor exchanger needs to be exposed to the ground air
11:45 AM gregcnc: it has to be part of the loop
11:45 AM gregcnc: so you are replacing ambient air with ground air
11:45 AM jymmmm: OH, so just build a box around the outside unit?
11:46 AM gregcnc: you need to make sure it go through the coils
11:46 AM jymmmm: MAybe evne use the outdoor fan as the geo circulator?
11:46 AM gregcnc: maybe
11:46 AM jymmmm: (maybe not depending on the resistance)
11:46 AM gregcnc: right
11:47 AM gregcnc: it has to be sized to make sure you don't run out of heat though
11:47 AM jymmmm: Turn it into a giant swamp cooler
11:47 AM jymmmm: without the water =)
11:48 AM gregcnc: too small a ground loop and it will not keep up with the heat you are trying to draw out
11:48 AM jymmmm: Yeah, I'm just not sure how I would calculate the the ground loop btu's
11:48 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: sure, I get that.
11:50 AM jymmmm: I have a 24" fan outside
11:50 AM jymmmm: I wonder what it's CFM is
11:58 AM jymmmm: Hmmm, if I build a little shed of sorts around the outdoor unit, that is in two parts (Intake / exhaust), then plumb the air geothermal into the shed, it would be a completely passive system using what's already there.
12:03 PM jymmmm: HOLY CRAP https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/rough-plumbing/pipe-tubing-hoses-fittings-accessories/culvert-pipe-accessories/corrugated-solid-dual-wall-belled-end-culvert-drainage-pipe/30wt20np/p-1444451517696.htm
12:04 PM jymmmm: BUT... what I really need is not "pipe", but a tunnel in the ground 8ft down
12:05 PM jymmmm: somethinking waterproof, (sealed plywood)?
12:05 PM jymmmm: fiberglass?
12:06 PM jymmmm: pond liner?
12:07 PM Loetmichel: jym: that looks like a "diy fallout shelter kit" ;)
12:10 PM p0g0: septic tanks sounds like they might do...
12:11 PM p0g0: Those are cheap and common.
12:13 PM p0g0: And meant for direct burial in the ground. The reason to have more surface area and linear run in the heat pump stuff is to get the larger mass to heat. Soil local to a large cylinder won't transfer as much heat as a long run of plumbing.
12:35 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: p0g0 I need a 30 inch tunnel 8ft in the ground, about 100 to 100 feet long, in a giant loop, not a bunker =)
12:37 PM jymmmm: p0g0: I was just seeing the cost of culvert pipe, at $700 that way too expensive, but a "tunnel" instead would be much cheaper
12:39 PM jymmmm: $1000 HOLY CRAP BATMAN https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/rough-plumbing/pipe-tubing-hoses-fittings-accessories/culvert-pipe-accessories/corrugated-solid-dual-wall-belled-end-culvert-drainage-pipe/30wt20np/plumbing/pipe-fittings/culvert-pipe-accessories/corrugated-solid-dual-wall-belled-end-culvert-drainage-pipe/42wt20np/p-1444451517969.htm
12:39 PM jymmmm: I could fit a family of 12 in that :D
12:55 PM jymmmm: Hmmm, something like this instead of pipe? https://www.infiltratorwater.com/products/quick4-plus-series/
01:36 PM p0g0: jymmmm, oh. Gee that's a bit huge. Well, Mining timbers comes to mind... you've looked at the common stuff, such culverts are pricey. And why so deep? I must have missed some salient narrative.
02:18 PM miss0r2: I have a BT50 drawbar on my workbench at the moment... Damn this thing is complex..
02:18 PM miss0r2: This particular one is from a 15.000rpm spindle
02:18 PM miss0r2: with inside and outside cooling on the spindle
02:20 PM miss0r2: It almost took med 7 hours to remove it from the machine
02:23 PM jym: p0g0: You have to watch this to better understand... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD_3_gsgsnk
02:32 PM SpeedEvil: jymmmm: It may almost be cheaper not to do that. But to build a lightly insulated 'shed' over the ground area, and just use twice the ground area instead of building walls.
02:33 PM SpeedEvil: This has the big plus that you can vent it in summer and allow for unrestricted heat gain.
02:34 PM jym: SpeedEvil: Well, it gets to 30F, and the 8ft down is 54F constant all year long
02:35 PM SpeedEvil: It doesn't remain 54 constant if you drain heat out of it.
02:35 PM jym: SpeedEvil: Did you see the video Iabove?
02:35 PM SpeedEvil: But, at ground level, if you insulate it mildly, then you get to the same temperature as you would get deep down.
02:35 PM jym: SpeedEvil: I have to figure out the BTU's once extracted
02:36 PM SpeedEvil: Note that it's not geothermal. It is solar, effectively. You rely on the summer heat percolating down and recharging your sump.
02:36 PM SpeedEvil: Or heat flow in from the sides of your array.
02:36 PM SpeedEvil: Pure geothermal heating is ~80mW/m^2.
02:37 PM jym: SpeedEvil: It's mostly winter. the Hvac goes into defrost mode at 45F or below. If geothermal is 54F, then it's a win
02:38 PM SpeedEvil: The basic idea above is to use the same idea as ytou would with a ground tunnel, except you have it on the surface, for ease of construction.
02:39 PM SpeedEvil: And rely on minimal insulation to keep it close to average yearly temp.
02:39 PM jym: SpeedEvil: I totally get that, but it snows here and there isn't much of sunshine
02:39 PM SpeedEvil: Summer sun.
02:39 PM jym: Not even summer sun, can't even grow some plants because there isn't enough sun coverage due to the 54Ft tall trees
02:40 PM SpeedEvil: Summer daytime air temp then.
02:41 PM jym: SpeedEvil: I dont need summer cooling, I need winter heating.... When the heatpump goes into defrost mode, those heat strips kick in and drives the electricty thru the roof.
02:42 PM jym: SpeedEvil: Like 10KW on the heat strips alone.
02:42 PM SpeedEvil: jymmmm: In summer, the ground surface is heated by air allowed to flow freely over it. In autumn, you shut the free movement of air and then run the AC off the enclosed air next to the ground.
02:43 PM SpeedEvil: It's basically geothermal, moved up 5 meters.
02:43 PM SpeedEvil: And easier to construct (if you have spare area)
02:46 PM jym: Loetmichel: I got a FULL refund from ebay.
02:46 PM Loetmichel: interesting
02:46 PM Loetmichel: would have liked to get the goods though ;)
02:46 PM jym: Loetmichel: After I made that inquiry like I told you a few days ago
02:46 PM jym: Loetmichel: True, me too
02:47 PM Loetmichel: yes, day three
02:47 PM Loetmichel: i remember
02:47 PM gregcnc: I think ebay has sorted the scammers, though they can't stop stolen or good gone bad accounts
02:47 PM SpeedEvil: Or customer-side scammers
02:48 PM gregcnc: but I think they just eat what they can't actually stop in terms of Paypal
02:49 PM Loetmichel: probably
03:02 PM jym: Loetmichel: they removed all the over under $20 welders, but this one just popped up... https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTS-205-Amp-MIG-Wire-Feed-Welder-Flux-Cored-Wire-TIG-Stick-Arc-DC-Combo-Welding/143473363796
03:03 PM jym: Loetmichel: Same MO, sold some cheap item to get good ratings, then the welder
03:48 PM Deejay: gn8
05:48 PM _unreal_: sup
05:48 PM veegee: Hey guys, can anyone comment on this machine: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1466236506
05:48 PM veegee: I'm contemplating buying it
05:49 PM veegee: He's asking about $4,000 CAD for it. Has power feed, DRO, collet set, vise, very new, protected ways (so likely not worn from all the chips getting in there)
05:50 PM veegee: He said the quill powerfeed just stopped working, but that should be a relatively easy thing to fix.
05:54 PM _unreal_: I'd look at the price for repairing it
05:54 PM _unreal_: is it JUST some simple part OR are there secondary parts that will need to be repaired as well
05:54 PM _unreal_: not much for photos
05:55 PM _unreal_: very low res
05:55 PM _unreal_: I'd suggest doing some research on it as far as the average price for buying one of those
05:58 PM _unreal_: ?
06:12 PM SpeedEvil: Battery drill on the feed knob $30.
06:12 PM SpeedEvil: (mostly kidding)
06:29 PM veegee: I don't even care about quill power feed
06:29 PM veegee: I'm going to check it out in person right now
06:29 PM veegee: I'll bring a dial indicator with me
06:30 PM jthornton: I'm trying to remember how the quill feed works on a J head... mine is blocked off as it's a CNC kit on it
06:31 PM jthornton: I think it's all mechanical...
06:31 PM Tom_L: jthornton, yours isn't a 'boss' cnc?
06:32 PM jthornton: no, it's a series 1
06:32 PM jthornton: I wish it was a boss and not a convert
06:32 PM Tom_L: my bud's first cnc was a boss5
06:32 PM Tom_L: prior to that he had a tracer
06:33 PM Tom_L: i sent the manual for it to archivist cause i was pretty sure i was done with it
06:33 PM jthornton: I wonder where he is...
06:34 PM Tom_L: yeah i wonder
06:36 PM jthornton: geez I'll be glad to get this poka-yolk project done
06:37 PM Tom_L: polka what?
06:37 PM Tom_L: what is it?
06:38 PM jthornton: poka-yolk Japanese for inadvertent error prevention or mistake proofing
06:38 PM Tom_L: oh
06:39 PM jthornton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke
06:39 PM Tom_L: yeah sounds like you've had your share of issues with it
06:39 PM Tom_L: did you order any threadmills?
06:39 PM jthornton: yea made a bunch of scrap from dumb mistakes
06:39 PM jthornton: yea, I wonder when they will arrive...
06:39 PM Tom_L: seems they shipped pretty quick for me
06:40 PM jthornton: I ordered a part from Maritool the same day it arrived today
06:40 PM Tom_L: no tracking no?
06:40 PM jthornton: hmm dunno
06:42 PM Tom_L: i ordered 2 10-24
06:42 PM Tom_L: i broke the first one when i was writing that macro
06:42 PM Tom_L: stupid mistake
06:43 PM jthornton: I need some machinable butter to test my mill touch v6 with lol
06:43 PM Tom_L: use a hunk of soft wood
06:44 PM jthornton: stuck to the vise with double sided tape
06:44 PM Tom_L: there are recipes for machinable wax but i've never tried making any
06:45 PM Tom_L: milk cartons and parafin i think
06:46 PM jthornton: time to put on the chef hat and whip up some vittles
06:46 PM Tom_L: how did the vacuum project end up?
06:55 PM jthornton: it's on hold till I finish up this poka-yolk
06:57 PM jthornton: I did find out that the 500 pound electromagnitic door lock will work with a 0.030" air gap so I think I'm safe
06:58 PM Tom_L: vhdl baby steps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUzNEWvFPxk
06:58 PM Tom_L: ~20 sec
06:59 PM jthornton: what does it do?
06:59 PM Tom_L: just a hex counter
06:59 PM Tom_L: with buttons mapped to leds
07:00 PM Tom_L: the video makes the mux look bad but it's not visible
07:00 PM jthornton: cool
07:00 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/xilinx/counter_test/
07:00 PM Tom_L: counter is the code
07:01 PM Tom_L: last time i messed with vhdl was in ~2001
07:02 PM jthornton: I get a Star Trek PEZ dispenser tomorrow at the pre-release put on by XPO
07:03 PM Tom_L: heh
07:03 PM jthornton: wife does shipping so she gets perks from shippers
07:04 PM jthornton: time to twirl the taco meat
07:05 PM Tom_L: just had beef enchiladas
07:05 PM jthornton: yum
07:06 PM jthornton: it's so cool to be on SS and medicare lol... I'm glad I made it
07:06 PM Tom_L: heh major milestone
07:07 PM jthornton: yea, comes pretty fast lol
07:07 PM Tom_L: looking back, it sure does
07:08 PM jthornton: reminds me of Grumpy Old Men
07:08 PM jthornton: the dad saying all you have is the memories
08:29 PM Wolf__: found me a new shop toy, needs some cleanup https://i.imgur.com/nN8ZTTU.jpg
08:58 PM elmo40: Wolf__, that is a good size.
09:00 PM Wolf__: yup, need to get a friend over so I can get it out of dumpster lol
09:37 PM _unreal_: Wolf__, looks nifty