#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 13 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:33 AM Deejay: moin
04:53 AM Tom_L: morning
04:55 AM mr_boo: hi
04:59 AM mr_boo: i'm planning to build a cnc and have made two of this arrangement for the first axis of the machine https://ibb.co/6nD3Ctm
04:59 AM jthornton: morning
05:00 AM mr_boo: there are 8 bearings against an aluminium tube for travel
05:02 AM mr_boo: i've been considering to save up for a cnc instead since building this one will problably take forever and the end result probably can't compete anyway
05:02 AM mr_boo: i'm mostly concerned about tolerances
05:04 AM jthornton: interesting... almost a linear rail
05:05 AM mr_boo: i'm planning to make four more linear rails for the other two axes
05:06 AM mr_boo: but those will be against square steel rails
05:06 AM Loetmichel: mr_boo: tip: dont use alu
05:06 AM Loetmichel: way to weak
05:06 AM Loetmichel: use thick walled cold rolled steel tube or even steel rod
05:06 AM mr_boo: it might bend?
05:07 AM Loetmichel: it gets thinner over time from the "forging" action of the bearings
05:07 AM Loetmichel: bending is an issue, too
05:07 AM mr_boo: already visible after a couple of movements
05:07 AM Loetmichel: second tip: use TWO rods in cradles.
05:08 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8875
05:08 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8881
05:08 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
05:08 AM Loetmichel: works MUCH better and doesent flex as much
05:09 AM jthornton: that's dandy but you need a cnc mill to make the parts...
05:10 AM mr_boo: Loetmichel: ballscrews?
05:10 AM Loetmichel: acme thread in plastic nuts
05:11 AM mr_boo: ok
05:11 AM mr_boo: are these hollow square steel rods useful as an alternative? https://ibb.co/kGT7rJ3
05:11 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: indeed, it has a bit of a "hen/egg" problem ;)
05:12 AM Loetmichel: but one could make the cradles/runner sleds with a 3dprinter, build the mill then mill alu parts to replace the plastic ones ;)
05:13 AM Loetmichel: a bit thin walled
05:13 AM Loetmichel: also it works better with round rods/tubes
05:13 AM Loetmichel: @ mr_boo
05:13 AM mr_boo: why are round rods better?
05:14 AM Loetmichel: but to be honest: considering what SBRs from china with fitting sleds cost i dont see any reason to make the linear bearings myself any more
05:15 AM Loetmichel: mr_boo: because cheaper to get in precision ground and STRAIGHT, also the bearings run better if they have a curved surface. if you have the bearings ever so slightly misaligned on a square tube they tend to wear unevenly into said tube
05:30 AM XXCoder: mr_boo: curious whats your ultimate goal? wood cnc or?
05:34 AM p0g0: regarding wood- I have not seen anyone discuss the Maslow hanging CNC here, is that because no one likes them, or what?
05:35 AM XXCoder: dunno but chances is most of us here is metal machinists
05:35 AM p0g0: yeah
05:35 AM XXCoder: I want to have cnc router for wood for hobby but I run a61 at work usually.
05:36 AM p0g0: I, on the other hand, have a many acres of trees, a massive wood stock, and am mostly about wood...
05:36 AM XXCoder: you make and sell wood stuff? if so, got examples?
05:37 AM p0g0: I do metal work like welding, cutting, drilling, but only my customers have/had decent CNC turret lathes.
05:38 AM p0g0: I don't sell anything like that ($=> coding), I just have built a sawmill decades back, and own the tools to log and work wood.
05:39 AM p0g0: I took down the sawmill...
05:39 AM p0g0: a 52" head saw, scary as anything to run.
05:40 AM XXCoder: large
05:40 AM p0g0: yeah, a Frick 00
05:41 AM p0g0: ancient thing
05:41 AM XXCoder: check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G131COxaKMg
05:41 AM XXCoder: its insanely large wood clamp
05:42 AM p0g0: Head saws that large are not like any other mill or saw that I know of- the blade is cupped, and _MUST_ maintain a given RPM to stand up straight, so the motor torque has to be huge.
05:42 AM p0g0: And any failure of that leads the saw out of the work (and into the carriage).
05:45 AM XXCoder: crazy
05:47 AM p0g0: Band saws are way saner to own and operate. They just did not exist at a "small" scale when I decided to build the mill, but while slower, they are more accurate and waste a lot less wood.
05:48 AM p0g0: The "big" bandsaws run at a good clip tho
05:48 AM p0g0: 2"-6" bands
05:48 AM XXCoder: im willing to bet that clamps is for making lamimated wood
05:48 AM XXCoder: beams type
05:50 AM p0g0: Truss-Joist McMillan ran an OSB mill near here- they'd glue up 20m beams with MIC and a steam press. They buggered the local millers tho, as they could work with small trees, so they'd cut the immature forests and the baord mills lost access to those woods.
05:51 AM p0g0: Screwed up about a 75 mile radius around that OSB mill.
05:52 AM p0g0: The model facility for them was in Brainerd Minnesota, and it had a rep for knocking out about 10% of their workforce by overexposing them to uncured MIC. The one they put here got a better ventilation system.
05:53 AM XXCoder: ouch
05:54 AM Loetmichel: p0g0: and that was viable?
05:55 AM p0g0: I spent some time trying to make them go away, and when that wasn't on, I started hitting the public meetings, and eventually got them to spend 14 Million on the ventilation. (I am not a fan of the OSB mills)
05:55 AM Loetmichel: i thought OSB and particle board are classic for using "waste wood" likebranches and cutoffs?
05:56 AM p0g0: Loetmichel, viable in what sense? Nah, that's what they peddle, but no- once established they go for any and all wood.
05:56 AM p0g0: I have public testimony form them about their source woods being limited like you say, and then watched them blow that right off for 10 years.
05:57 AM p0g0: so, no, they were so bad, in fact, that they set the table for me and others to get better logging laws in the state.
05:58 AM p0g0: We finally got some regulation on water quality, clear cutting, and the basic skill set needed to commarcially log.
05:59 AM p0g0: Loetmichel, this is a US thing, you may have a much better set of laws that actually bind them to using the scrap wood and not log scale stuff.
06:04 AM p0g0: The other thing about that OSB mill was that it tended to catch fire- they use a flame driven heat system to dry the slivers before gluing so they'd set themselves on fire a lot. Since a lot of the scrap had MethylIsoCyanate (MIC) glue in it, it makes cyanide as it burns... so not only were the fires huge (they had a lot of scrap) but they were toxic. So local governments needed to pay for a much bigger fire department, something that they didn't see
06:04 AM p0g0: coming when they invited the OSB mill in.
06:06 AM Loetmichel: p0g0: viable in the sense that cutting trees is more expensive than gettting waste wood for free
06:06 AM p0g0: The largest stockholder in TJM was the Canadian government- I never could sort out why my state taxes went to support that outfit, we were just giving money to Canada to help them take the wood and profits out of state.
06:06 AM Loetmichel: so viable economical
06:07 AM p0g0: They found it profitable to buy softwoods of any scale as far as I could tell.
06:07 AM Loetmichel: ah, that was the question
06:08 AM Loetmichel: makes one wonder how that works considering the prices for osb, but anyways.
06:08 AM p0g0: They also started to broker hardwoods, but they didn't mill those, they'd just resell them out of state.
06:08 AM p0g0: Here, a lot of the woods were doomed to be mined for coal, so it was cheap wood.
06:08 AM p0g0: Strip mines clear the top as they descend to the coal.
06:09 AM p0g0: The strip mining has nearly stopped too...
06:09 AM Loetmichel: open pit mining?
06:09 AM p0g0: not a pit
06:09 AM p0g0: mountain top removal
06:09 AM Loetmichel: ah, letting mointains vanish?
06:09 AM p0g0: yes
06:09 AM p0g0: heinous stuff
06:09 AM p0g0: filling valleys with bulldozed spoils.
06:10 AM p0g0: trashing the watershed, etc
06:10 AM Loetmichel: we had a bunch of open pit brown coal mining here in germany, and still have a few
06:10 AM XXCoder: usa coal is slowly dying
06:10 AM XXCoder: big one closed down recently
06:10 AM Loetmichel: the laws that bind the coal companys to renature the plot after done are pretty rigid though
06:10 AM p0g0: Yes, I have read about them- I was surprised .de would work with such low energy coal.
06:10 AM XXCoder: trump and people is trying to inject cash into it but its dying anyway
06:11 AM p0g0: Ours get to go bankrupt and walk away.
06:11 AM p0g0: Mr T has been lying about that for his entire tenure....
06:11 AM p0g0: honestly, "war on coal"?
06:11 AM Loetmichel: german coal can no longer compete with chinese coal, so nearly all deep shaft mining and open pit mining has ceases here because its simply not worth it any more
06:12 AM Loetmichel: even though its a lot cleaner than the chinese coal (less sulphur content for example)
06:12 AM p0g0: who bombed all that coal, put it on trains to the ovens? The coal miners, not the environmental community.
06:13 AM p0g0: yes, coal has been making a comeback in some places, and it _really_ shouldn't- not so much for all the mess as the CO2.
06:13 AM XXCoder: its too late now
06:13 AM XXCoder: theres HUGE venting of co2 now
06:13 AM p0g0: shh!
06:13 AM XXCoder: line have been crossed. another one of those major ones
06:13 AM p0g0: That truth seems to stop people from trying to do better.
06:14 AM p0g0: Yes, we likely passed the tipping points in the 1950s but didn't know it.
06:16 AM XXCoder: this one is new one
06:16 AM XXCoder: but yeah
06:17 AM p0g0: The peat, the permafrost, or the O2 losses in the ocean? they are all "new" to some folks.
06:20 AM XXCoder: oh well heh well gonna sleep in earlier today
06:20 AM p0g0: Or the much larger than we thought Methane releases from Fracking, or the CFC losses from isolating U235? I am not sure which "new" one you mean.
06:26 AM p0g0: XXCoder, one last tidbit for you re: Mr. T & coal, our latest Ambassador to the UN is a Ms. Craft, she is married to James Wiley Craft (yep) who owns one of the largest strip mine coal businesses in this nation.
07:16 AM taloot: the one who voted to make the rasbperry fpga
07:16 AM taloot: have no vision
07:18 AM taloot: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=345
07:18 AM taloot: not worth the development cost
07:47 AM jymmmm: Good morning folks
08:03 AM jymmmm: Happy Friday the 13th :D
08:08 AM p0g0: Loetmichel, you can just mount the iso image, no DVD needed.
09:12 AM adamj12b: Can anyone point me in the direction as show the PID settings on the calibration screen like the axes?
09:13 AM adamj12b: I know it shows Joint_n but it also will show 1 or 2 other types, I just cant find the page I read it on before.
09:35 AM adamj12b: Found it. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/axis.html
09:36 AM adamj12b: Section 3.1 Calibration - Starts the Calibration assistant (emccalib.tcl). Calibration reads the HAL file and for every setp that uses a variable from the ini file that is in an [AXIS_L],[JOINT_N],[SPINDLE_S], or [TUNE] section it creates an entry that can be edited and tested.
09:49 AM jymmmm: jthornton: A new project for you... 9000 SFM (100+ MPH) belt sander https://youtu.be/_BOw7svMzkk?t=1031
10:13 AM CaptHindsight: I like the grinder https://youtu.be/_BOw7svMzkk?t=1298
10:17 AM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
11:11 AM CaptHindsight: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/doc/scratch/v2.9.0~pre0~dgarr-dryrun~6eca6ac/html/integrator/dryrun.html new feature
11:54 AM jymmmm: Damn.... that 100 MPH belt sander is soemthing else!!!
11:55 AM tiwake: I want to play with my oscilloscope today
11:55 AM tiwake: merf
11:55 AM jymmmm: tiwake: whatcha got?
11:55 AM tiwake: a siglant $400 one
11:56 AM jymmmm: model?
11:56 AM tiwake: something above zero
11:56 AM jymmmm: lol
11:56 AM tiwake: SDS1202X-E
12:02 PM roycroft: my belt grinder maxes out at ~40 surface miles/hour, and i can't imagine ever wanting it to run any faster
12:02 PM roycroft: it's quite aggressive and intimidating at top speed as is
12:09 PM jymmmm: roycroft: It's 6 parts, but damn is it purrrrrty... https://youtu.be/UXzoM-WXWRw
12:16 PM roycroft: oh, i've seen that one before
12:17 PM roycroft: i certainly can't afford to stock belts that big
12:17 PM roycroft: but that aside, i really don't get running a grinder that fast
12:17 PM roycroft: like i said, mine runs at 40% of that speed, and it's still wicked fast
12:17 PM roycroft: i slow it down for a lot of work
12:24 PM roycroft: i have a 2hp motor on mine, and so far no regrets on that
12:24 PM roycroft: it's plenty powerful for everything i've done
12:24 PM jymmmm: roycroft: It's all good, just liked the idea of a 100 MPH sander :D
12:26 PM roycroft: if mine had wider belts (it's 2x72) more power would be good
12:27 PM roycroft: but 2hp is, in my experience, perfect for 2" wide belts
12:27 PM roycroft: the problem with running so fast is not just control, but it's easy to overheat the parts
12:27 PM roycroft: running slower with an aggressive ceramic belt, like 24 grit, works a lot better than running really fast with a finer belt
12:28 PM roycroft: you don't get the heat buildup
12:28 PM roycroft: all that said, it's an impressive build that guy did
01:41 PM Loetmichel: jthornton: was it you that told me about the $11 wlders?
01:41 PM Loetmichel: welders
01:41 PM Loetmichel: just noticed: "article removed" "this seller is no longer an ebay member" and "item shipped" under that purchase.
01:42 PM Loetmichel: jfyi
01:43 PM jymmmm: I did
01:43 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: $11 welder was me
01:43 PM Loetmichel: ah, sorry
01:44 PM Loetmichel: cant tell you two apart ;)
01:44 PM Loetmichel: look into your ebay acc... i am interested if it says the same for you
01:47 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Yeah, I got the same message.
01:48 PM Loetmichel: intere4sting... you think we will get anything? it says "shipped"... i wonder WHAT they shipped ;)
01:49 PM Loetmichel: ... also interesting that it has no tracking number ;)
01:50 PM jymmmm: WEll it doesn't say "shipped", it says "... If your item hasn't arrived yet, it should arrive soon. If it doesn't, then you'll want to open a case in our Resolution Center. ..."
01:51 PM Loetmichel: for me it says "Der Artikel wurde verschickt."
01:51 PM Loetmichel: a.k.a "item shipped"
01:51 PM Loetmichel: under the "seller removed" and the "item removed" lines ;)
01:53 PM jymmmm: ah, probably boiler plate
01:54 PM Loetmichel: boiler plate?
01:55 PM Loetmichel: -v please
01:59 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: canned message, form letter. Dear $username, This $item is no longer availalable....
01:59 PM Loetmichel: ah
01:59 PM Loetmichel: i thought you meant they shipped part of a furnace to meet the weight
01:59 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I just went ahead and did "MORE ACTIONS" and requested tracking number or refund. They now have 3 days to reply
02:00 PM Loetmichel: for a second
02:00 PM jymmmm: I did NOT send a message to seller
02:01 PM jymmmm: Sorry, I clocked on RESOLVE A PROBLEM
02:01 PM jymmmm: then on "I WANT TO CANCEL THIS ORDER
02:01 PM Loetmichel: ah
02:01 PM Loetmichel: hmm, lets see how that works
02:01 PM jymmmm: I basically said what was sent in the message we received.
02:01 PM Loetmichel: if you get an answer would you be so kind and notify me?
02:03 PM jymmmm: Basically, "Ebay said this item has been canceld, and the seller in no longer registered. If shipped, please provide trackng number, Else cancel and provide a full refind." less the typos
02:03 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: of course
02:04 PM Loetmichel: if he is no longer registered: how will he get that?
02:04 PM Loetmichel: ;)
02:05 PM jymmmm: IDK, but I'll find out in 3 days instead of waiting 60 days
02:08 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: It be funny if I get a refund AND a BIG ASS package on my doorstep in February
02:09 PM Loetmichel: indeed
02:10 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: INTERESTING... look at the detailed feedback https://www.ebay.com/itm/AmScope-7X-45X-Circuit-Inspection-Trinocular-Zoom-Stereo-Microscope-56-LED-/383305961142
02:11 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: this seller too has the welder
02:11 PM jymmmm: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTS-205-Amp-MIG-Wire-Feed-Welder-Flux-Cored-Wire-TIG-Stick-Arc-DC-Combo-Welding/383305822319?
02:13 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: 197 sold in 3 days, do we want to risk another scam???
02:19 PM Loetmichel: i'll pass until the other one is thru
02:19 PM Loetmichel: i know my luck. in the end i will have four welders at my disposal ;)
02:23 PM rmu: usd22,99??
02:24 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: sell 3 ?
02:24 PM Loetmichel: ah well... lets try ;)
02:25 PM Loetmichel: haha
02:25 PM Loetmichel: "the seller only allows to buy one item every ten days"
02:25 PM Loetmichel: so much for two welders ;)
02:26 PM Loetmichel: someone got smart ;)
02:30 PM jymmmm: lol
02:31 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Well, I'll wait a few days and see what happens with THIS seller
02:57 PM Loetmichel: Hrrrmpf. $me is watching star treck clips on youtube. every second clip has some pro or contra trump comment that is a) totally nonsensical, b) has NO connection to the clip whatsoever and c) starts a fight in the comments that drowns any meaningful comments. when do those idiots learn that they are NOT the center of the universe and that their little idiocracy is certainly not of interest
02:57 PM Loetmichel: to everyone else on this planet?
02:59 PM Loetmichel: [/rant] sorry, that HAD to be said :-(
03:17 PM Rab: Loetmichel, it's because everybody loves Star Trek.
03:17 PM Rab: Or maybe they're just Russian bots fighting it out.
03:23 PM roycroft: loetmichel: it's sad that it's the case, but until donald trump is dead that stuff will continue, and perhaps even well after his death
03:24 PM roycroft: i'd like to say i'm looking forward to the day that he is no longer in everyone's face, but i just don't see that day happening
03:25 PM roycroft: and in other sad news, i found some german-made glühwein in the market the other day and decided to try it
03:25 PM roycroft: and while my expectations were low, it did not come even close to meeting them
03:25 PM roycroft: fortunately, it's so easy to make it oneself there's no real need to purchase it ready-made
03:26 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: i dont want to see him dead at all. that would just make him a martyr. cant you guys impeach him via medical reasons and simply institutionalize him? IMHO is someone that makes his own reality whereever he sees fit to ignore facts or invent some himself not fit to be president of the second largest power block on earth
03:29 PM roycroft: i don't wish him to die
03:30 PM roycroft: that's not what i'm saying at all
03:30 PM roycroft: while i'm not a roman catholic, i too was brought up to follow the teaching of st. augustine - hate the sin, but love the sinner
03:31 PM roycroft: we have a 25th amendment that accommodates removal from office due to inability to serve
03:31 PM roycroft: but it requires a majority of the cabinet plus the vice president to invoke it, and a majority of congress to sustain
03:32 PM roycroft: and since trump has filled his cabinet with sycophants, there is zero chance that a majority would vote to invoke the 25th
03:32 PM roycroft: but what i said above is not about trump at all
03:32 PM roycroft: it's about trumpism
03:33 PM roycroft: which probably will not end when he dies, but it won't even slow down as long as he's alive
03:34 PM roycroft: i just wish america as a whole would simmer down a bit
03:34 PM roycroft: is that too much to wish for?
03:49 PM Choscura: happy friday!
04:21 PM Deejay: gn8
05:27 PM sync: roycroft: glühwein is most usually the worst crap you can get
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: only 15.99 here https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTS-205-Amp-MIG-Wire-Feed-Welder-Flux-Cored-Wire-TIG-Stick-Arc-DC-Combo-Welding/401995868880
09:45 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: all sold today too. Funny thing, is all the previous feedback is on a cheap dragonfly pendant. That same "cheap item" was the MO of the other welder sellers too
10:17 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
10:58 PM ve7it: _unreal_, did you survive the week?