#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 01 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:11 AM Deejay: moin
03:50 AM taloot: for example i want to modify the mesa layout
03:50 AM taloot: for the pcb to fit in mu xontroller
03:51 AM taloot: who own the pcb design
05:07 AM Loetmichel: ouch. Wife just called. She sits 400km from here at her mothers place in front of the cafe. Mercedes says: "go to the mechanic without changing gears!" and the car cant be started. Very funny with the gearbox locked in "p" :-(
05:30 AM jthornton: morning
05:30 AM XXCoder: hey
05:32 AM jthornton: going to be windy today gusts up to 40 mph
05:33 AM XXCoder: hurry and set your wind power towers
05:33 AM jthornton: I have a tower but nothing is on it lol
05:34 AM XXCoder: lol
05:50 AM p0g0: jthornton: your own personal tower? How?
05:51 AM XXCoder: hes a wizard, and its wizard tower
05:51 AM jthornton: dig a hole and plant it
05:51 AM jthornton: they used to be popular in the 50's and 60's
05:52 AM p0g0: oh... so, if you are old enough, this is an 1960s elephant joke (it helps to be 7 years old)- how did the elephant get to the top of the oak tree?
05:53 AM p0g0: He sat on an acorn and waited.
05:53 AM XXCoder: hah
05:53 AM p0g0: so, do you have a tree or a tower
05:54 AM jthornton: yes
05:54 AM p0g0: eh, ok.
05:55 AM jthornton: only 1 tower and many trees
05:55 AM XXCoder: I used to have 3 trees.
05:56 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs0Rmjfn7X4
05:57 AM XXCoder: nary a green
05:57 AM XXCoder: here its still mostly green
05:58 AM jthornton: all the leaves have fallen off here
05:58 AM p0g0: I have a 30' telescope thing but it won't clear the treetops here. This property is about 1.5 sq miles of hill and cliff forest, getting backbone signals around here is tricky.
05:58 AM jthornton: I guess the camera angle was too low to see the tower
06:10 AM SpeedEvil: p0g0: To convert to a current joke, add "Remember to like and subscribe' at the end
06:18 AM jthornton: hmm I was 7 years old in 1960...
06:21 AM XXCoder: I was at yound and tender age of -16 years old.
06:22 AM p0g0: For the confused youth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_joke
06:25 AM * Loetmichel was -9 years in 1960 :)
06:32 AM gloops: -8 here
06:43 AM Loetmichel: gloops: we should rename the channel to "club of old farts" ;)
06:45 AM XXCoder: lol
06:55 AM taloot: so old guys most of u
06:55 AM taloot: veterians
06:56 AM Loetmichel: taloot: you meant "veterans"?
06:57 AM taloot: yes no spell check in my irc client
06:58 AM Loetmichel: na, never was in a war
06:58 AM XXCoder: I'd be shocked if I was a vet.
06:58 AM XXCoder: *are
07:03 AM Loetmichel: when i was in the navvy my lt. decided that i dont want to go to iraq (first round) because my term was about to end.
07:04 AM Loetmichel: so he denied the request of the sister ship for a sonar operator to do 6 months of minesweeping in the Mediterranean Sea
07:05 AM Loetmichel: i wanted to hit him when i heard... 6 monts slacking of in the sun for a "real soldier" salary instead of the constripted breadcrumps and that guy denies me it :-(
07:06 AM Loetmichel: whats a mandatory military service called in english again?
07:06 AM Loetmichel: mandatory for every (male) citizen i mean
07:08 AM XXCoder: draft
07:08 AM Loetmichel: really?
07:08 AM Loetmichel: i thohght draft was in war times
07:09 AM Loetmichel: i meant the service every person of a certain age has to do if you are in a country where that is a thing
07:09 AM XXCoder: mantanary service term maybe (cant spell first word, same as required)
07:10 AM Loetmichel: mandatory ;)
07:10 AM Tom_L: morning
07:11 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: evening ;)
07:11 AM XXCoder: yo
07:12 AM gloops: they used to call it national service here - conscription
07:16 AM p0g0: selective service
07:17 AM p0g0: I sat two Viet Nam war draft lotteries, first one took to 124, I was 127. The 2nd I was in the mid 200's. Those # ranged from 0:365
07:18 AM jthornton: wow you are old
07:19 AM Loetmichel: anyways, here in germany it used to be about 600 DM salary for a "wehrpflichtiger" (= consrcipted) but about 2000 DM for a "zeitsoldat" (soldier who volonteered for service)
07:19 AM Loetmichel: nowadays we no longer have any conscription. only volunteers
07:20 AM Loetmichel: and if you were to do more than the conscripted time for some reason you would get the volonteer salary for the extra time
07:21 AM Loetmichel: hence my anger that the lt. didnt löet me go there
07:21 AM Loetmichel: volunteer?
07:21 AM p0g0: yes
07:22 AM Loetmichel:
07:22 AM Loetmichel: my english vocabulary isnt the best it seems ;)
07:22 AM jthornton: better than my german...
07:22 AM p0g0: Loetmichel, don't sweat it, the language is a horror.
07:23 AM Loetmichel: p0g0: actually its pretty easy for a german native
07:23 AM p0g0: mete, meat, meet, etc
07:23 AM Loetmichel: a lot less "exceptions" to the rules
07:23 AM p0g0: what rules?
07:23 AM Loetmichel: bit silly pronunciation sometimes though ;)
07:24 AM Loetmichel: from a german POV ;)
07:24 AM Loetmichel: grammar rules i mean
07:24 AM jthornton: I ordered pepperoni pizza in frankfort and got much to my surprise peppers and no meat
07:24 AM p0g0: Loetmichel, I've lived across the USA- the dialects here, all "English", will challenge a native.
07:25 AM XXCoder: jt lol did you call them back?
07:25 AM Loetmichel: p0g0: we learn oxford english at school
07:25 AM p0g0: It is why we need a jury of our peers- no one else can understand the words.
07:26 AM p0g0: Loetmichel, yes- foreign education in English is often more formal and accurate than indigenous.
07:26 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: german "pepperoni" is jalapenos ;)
07:27 AM Loetmichel: to be honest: i learned more english in 2 weeks london (end of school trip with the class) than i did in 6 years english classes ;)
07:27 AM Loetmichel: because you HAD to speak english
07:28 AM Loetmichel: no way out of it, londoners usually dont speak german.
07:28 AM p0g0: It has been my experience that IRC .DE's have great written english and horrific spoken english.
07:28 AM Loetmichel: i can still remember trying to explain to the "bed and breakfast" mom there that there were elections in germany at the time
07:29 AM Loetmichel: took me a good 1 1/2 hours... but i will not forget to this day (35 years later) that "Wahlen" means "elections" in english ;)
07:30 AM Loetmichel: p0g0: lack of usage probably
07:30 AM Loetmichel: my first few minutes of speaking english ( on the phone for example) are usually horrific, then it gets better pretty much instantly.
07:30 AM Loetmichel: brain has to "switch over" to use different pronunciation.
07:31 AM jthornton: yea I figured that out lol
07:38 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: actually: the "pepperoni" sausage is called that because its made with jalapeno pepper powder
07:40 AM jthornton: Loetmichel, when you solder current carrying wire like 12 gauge fine strand 2mm I think what temperature do you set the solder station to?
07:40 AM Loetmichel: depends on the solder and the station
07:41 AM Loetmichel: with my 80W station: 230°C for lead solder, 240°C for lead free
07:41 AM Loetmichel: with a 50W station probably a few 10 degrees more
07:41 AM Loetmichel: ah, sorry
07:42 AM Loetmichel: 320°C vs 340°C, not 200
07:48 AM jthornton: mine is a 50w station
07:49 AM jthornton: ok thanks, I was a bit lower than that yesterday at 315c
07:56 AM Deejay: re
08:18 AM gregcnc: hehe oops, if you're going to work on your car don't forget to tighten nuts and bolts
10:14 AM Loetmichel: harhar, wife just called, she is on her way back home... in a Rental. 311hp Merc GLC350e hybrid to 130hp diesel B-Class. THATs a downgrade for sure. ;)
10:19 AM net|: openwrt QoS luci module is amazing. fixed my internet right up
10:28 AM Elmo40: net|, interesting... what changed?
11:28 AM Elmo40: freezing rain today...
11:28 AM Elmo40: i have 1/4" of ice on over my vehicles!
11:30 AM jymmmm: I had 8" of snow on my car, now only 4" as it's raining currently
11:31 AM Tom_L: nice crusty top layer?
11:32 AM jymmmm: not really
11:36 AM Tom_L: any tree branches fall due to the snow?
11:37 AM _unreal_: Elmo40, ya its only 81F today
11:38 AM Tom_L: floridians would panic if they saw a sprinkling of snow
11:51 AM CaptHindsight: taloot: is the enclosure very very small? Why would you "need" to modify the Mesa PCB?
11:52 AM taloot: hi capt
11:52 AM CaptHindsight: taloot: you can modify the FPGA and the pinouts
11:52 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: here in germany i always wonder how its possible that people forget how to drive once the first flakes of snow fall each winter
11:52 AM taloot: its pendant style cnc controler
11:52 AM Loetmichel: <- seeing suvs and other AWD cars in the ditch every year while i drive by in my RWD BMW ;)
11:53 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: it's similar here and we get snow all the time
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: taloot: the motor drivers and power supply don't fit into a pendant, you can locate the Mesa cards in the same enclosure as them
11:55 AM taloot: PoE then
11:55 AM taloot: and keep the mesa in the control box
11:56 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:00 PM taloot: driver will be in a box and the box using IDC50 connector
12:00 PM taloot: connected to the pendant which is having mesa + rpi+ little lcd ips screen
12:00 PM taloot: + keypad
12:00 PM taloot: if i can but the cpu + fpga + display in one device
12:00 PM taloot: it will be more convenieent for using machines for me
12:00 PM taloot: even lower cost
12:00 PM taloot: it will pay for it self
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: won't the Mesa card have a ton (lots) of IO ?
12:00 PM taloot: it its but i will not yes them all
12:00 PM taloot: i have to give roboust cheap sloution
12:00 PM taloot: and no sloution can kill it
12:00 PM taloot: money for Intel goes for Mesa
12:00 PM taloot: and broadcom
12:01 PM CaptHindsight: even IF you make your own FPGA card you will still have lots of IO coming off of it
12:01 PM taloot: the controller always cost money
12:02 PM taloot: yes IDC 50 connector
12:02 PM CaptHindsight: so that cable to the pendant will have lots of wires
12:02 PM taloot: will be enough for most work
12:02 PM CaptHindsight: but I really can't comment on your design without a diagram
12:02 PM CaptHindsight: I'm not a good mind reader and your description is not complete
12:03 PM taloot: RPi4 +mesa+ breakoutboard
12:04 PM taloot: the breakoutbaored have IDC50 connectior
12:04 PM taloot: go all the way to control box
12:04 PM taloot: which contain powersupplies
12:04 PM taloot: drivers and all other stuff
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: RPi4 +mesa+ breakoutboard will be located where?
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: why I asked for a diagram
12:05 PM taloot: i need to refine it
12:05 PM taloot: its stoned guy idea
12:06 PM CaptHindsight: thank you
12:06 PM taloot: you welcome
12:06 PM taloot: :)
12:07 PM CaptHindsight: at least you limited your waste of my time to 15 minutes
12:08 PM taloot: but i think u liked the idea
12:22 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, you need to get better at mind reading....
12:22 PM _unreal_: now read my mind
12:26 PM CaptHindsight: stoned as well?
12:26 PM _unreal_: naa
12:27 PM _unreal_: currently fighting my asus tinkerboard a little
12:27 PM _unreal_: no one has produced a correct driver for armbian for the LCD I'm using :(
12:27 PM _unreal_: the LCD has an oddball res....
12:27 PM _unreal_: 1024x XXX I forget now its been a while
12:28 PM _unreal_: RPI supports the display in every flavor
12:49 PM _unreal_: sigh
01:56 PM jymmmm: 72 tires in the front, and 72 tires in the rear.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORrswOWE-_c
01:57 PM jymmmm: And much much can that grey thing really weigh?
01:57 PM Tom_L: do they all steer?
01:58 PM Tom_L: i've seen one similar that they steered
01:59 PM Tom_L: they appear to
01:59 PM jymmmm: Yes, but I think in sets at a time
02:00 PM Tom_L: wonder who the genius was to figure the ackerman steering on that one
02:00 PM jymmmm: ..and do the rear condoms work in tandem remotely?
02:01 PM SpeedEvil: They are modular units with wheels/generator/motor bits.
02:01 PM SpeedEvil: And a basically flat top deck usually
02:01 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: So, they are "dumb" engines ?
02:01 PM SpeedEvil: You connect all of them to your load or a substructure, and use clever control software.
02:01 PM SpeedEvil: No.
02:02 PM SpeedEvil: AIUI they are basically all computer controlled at all times to equalise force/...
02:02 PM Tom_L: haha ironic at 9:40... "Wide Load" taped to a motorcycle
02:02 PM SpeedEvil: That is a small/light load for these sort of things
02:02 PM jymmmm: Ok, yeah, so they are dumb (well "slave") engines
02:02 PM jymmmm: ...not being operate independantly
02:03 PM jymmmm: Ok, so how much does that grey thing weight to need so much moving power???
02:03 PM jymmmm: Cause, I'm thinking a lowboy
02:05 PM SpeedEvil: I would expect >50 tons
02:07 PM jymmmm: 100K lbs doesn't seem all that much for a lowboy.
02:08 PM jymmmm: Ok, lowboy limit is 80K lbs
02:09 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hOiPSAYowg - same unit
02:09 PM SpeedEvil: (or one of them)
02:09 PM SpeedEvil: Moving 170 tons
02:14 PM jymmmm: 170 tons and only ONE engine, compared to FIVE engines in the other video... NOW how much does that grey thing weight?!?!?!
02:21 PM ovhvm__ is now known as xtor
02:30 PM xtor is now known as extor
02:30 PM Elmo40: anyone know where i can get CAT8 holders?
02:52 PM Tom_L: what kind?
02:52 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Cat8-Ethernet-Network-Cable/dp/B07G9N3Y9N
02:53 PM Tom_L: https://www.leviton.com/en/products/commercial/network-solutions/copper-systems/atlasx1/cat-8-shielded-system
03:18 PM sliptonic: I've been running 2.7x on my mill (servos) for a while. Recently I needed to set it up to run both linuxcnc and machinekit so I can test some work being done on a new workbench in FreeCAD. I'm now building both Lcnc and MK from source and I'm able to launch either running gmoccapy as the UI.
03:18 PM sliptonic: However, building lcnc from source now has me on 2.9x and the JA branch migration seems to have changed things.
03:19 PM sliptonic: I'm getting following errors on the Z axis when I power on.
03:20 PM sliptonic: I don't see anything obvious in the configuration. If I increase the MIN_FERROR and FERROR by a factor of 10, I can get past the Z axis error but motion is very rough and then the error occurs on X.
03:20 PM Tom_L: the configs changed from 2.7 to using joints instead of axis
03:20 PM Tom_L: running 28 fwd will ask to convert them
03:20 PM Tom_L: 2.8*
03:20 PM sliptonic: Tom_L: Thanks. Yes, I accepted the migration script defaults
03:21 PM Tom_L: i had a couple little tweaks i had to do but nothing major
03:21 PM Tom_L: not sure about the rest of the changes
03:21 PM sliptonic: Minor tweaks in the joint configurations?
03:22 PM Tom_L: i can't recall what it was now but something like that
03:24 PM sliptonic: All the changes that the upgrade script made seem sane and consistent with the wiki upgrade instructions. Just thought I'd ask here in case it was one of those FAQ things.
03:24 PM Tom_L: yeah
03:24 PM Tom_L: i didn't change ^^ those settings
03:57 PM Deejay: gn8
05:07 PM * SpeedEvil wonders at what temperature very fine (~1um) tin-copper powders need sintered to make bronze.
05:11 PM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: i would use bronce powder to start with
05:12 PM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: that's cheating!
05:12 PM Loetmichel: a) it has lower melting point than both copper and tin and b) you will not able to mix it to perfect alloy if sintering
05:12 PM Loetmichel: sintering is only melting the surface of the grains
05:12 PM SpeedEvil: Also, I was wondering if it was very very singificantly lower.
05:13 PM SpeedEvil: yes, but at some point edge effects dominate the particle
05:14 PM SpeedEvil: I guess another way to state the problem would be 'at what temperature does copper begin to dissolve into tin at a rate of over 500nm/hr.
05:15 PM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: bronce: 790°C, copper 1100°C, tin 231°C. i stand corrected, pure tin would be easier to melt
05:15 PM Loetmichel: still the mixing point stands
05:17 PM Loetmichel: for 3dprinting (metal sintering) thats irrelevant though, there is more relevant how much energy you need to het a single grain (or a few dozen grains) of the metal up to melting point
05:17 PM Loetmichel: because you dont WANT to make a puddle, only to melt the edges of the grains together
05:18 PM Loetmichel: hence the energy storage of the metal divided the time you are willing wo wait per grain defines how big your laser has to be
05:19 PM Loetmichel: the absolute temp is nearly irrelevant
05:20 PM SpeedEvil: I was meaning from the context of making bronze in silicone molds.
05:20 PM SpeedEvil: Which won't work so well at 790C
05:31 PM SpeedEvil: aha
05:31 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1315661
05:31 PM SpeedEvil: Fundamental investigations of base material dissolution began with the work of W. Bader, who examinedCu wires dipped into molten tin (Sn)-based solders 8, 9. The solder baths were static. The other independent variables were solder temperature and time. In the case of Sn-Pb solder at 275°C, the dissolution rate of Cu wire, which was measured by the change in radius, was 0.14 μm/s.
05:31 PM SpeedEvil: interesting.
05:33 PM * SpeedEvil now wonders about low temperature vacuum sintering of Sn/Cu/AlO
05:37 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.copper.org/resources/properties/129_6/consolidation.html#a3
05:38 PM SpeedEvil: Liquid phase sintering
05:39 PM jthornton: dang finally got the Vantac Q100 flying again...
05:39 PM XXCoder: what was wrong with it
05:40 PM jthornton: I updated my TX and somehow fudged up the FC
05:41 PM jthornton: only one left to get airborne the big ass hex
05:44 PM jthornton: got the motors mounted and wired up yesterday and had to take it back apart today as I has the top plate in backwards lol
05:44 PM jthornton: https://gnipsel.com/images/tarot-680/tarot-01.jpg
05:44 PM jthornton: https://gnipsel.com/images/tarot-680/tarot-02.jpg
05:45 PM Tom_L: forboden
05:45 PM jthornton: lol that was the first I got, didn't know squat about drones and wow it was just overwhelming in size
05:45 PM jthornton: hmmm
05:45 PM Tom_L: 403
05:47 PM jthornton: wonder why it uploaded with 600 and not 644 for permissions
05:48 PM jthornton: should work now
05:48 PM Tom_L: fly that thing around your shop!
05:48 PM jthornton: that's the tiny whoop sitting on top
05:48 PM jthornton: I don't think so...
05:48 PM jthornton: 40" tip to tip
05:49 PM Tom_L: battery hog?
05:50 PM jthornton: the big hex, should not be with no cargo on board
05:50 PM jthornton: I've not flown it yet...
05:51 PM Tom_L: oh
05:51 PM jthornton: it was the first one I got not knowing how big it was and stopped working on it and looked for something a LOT smaller to practice with
05:52 PM SpeedEvil: Can't cut your head clean off is always a good place to start with an unknown tool
05:53 PM jthornton: https://alofthobbies.com/vantac-q100-fpv.html
05:53 PM jthornton: so I got that one...
05:54 PM jthornton: hmm according to the photos I should have some more rubber bands to hold the battery in somewhere
05:55 PM jthornton: yea the 680 can sport up to 13" props, I have 12" props for it
07:30 PM _unreal_: My jumbo quad has 13" props
07:36 PM SpeedEvil: I've got parts for a 18" propped hex quad, but not assembled
07:46 PM Tom_L: strap that to yer arse
07:50 PM Wolf__: someday I might fly my octo...
08:25 PM _unreal_: some day over the rain bo?
08:26 PM _unreal_: bow
08:29 PM _unreal_: ve7it, hi
09:03 PM _unreal_: I'm looking at purching one of these https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/24V-200W-3-phase-bldc-motor_60669776319.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.191546b6NvLL2M&s=p
09:03 PM _unreal_: or a few? they are not expensive
09:04 PM _unreal_: then its just a matter of interfacing them
09:22 PM ve7it: _unreal_, price is right... they are not really servo controls, but might work with linuxcnc in the link... 0-5V and direction pin is quite workable
09:24 PM ve7it: _unreal_, try sending them a message and asking for an english technical manual... It would be interesting to know if they have any features like current limit adjustments
09:24 PM _unreal_: ya
09:24 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I have the PDF
09:24 PM _unreal_: ve7it, msg
09:58 PM Elmo40: Tom_L, i meant CAT10.
09:58 PM Elmo40: a tool holder. like CAT40 but tiny...
10:01 PM XXCoder: cat10? sounds really tiny.
10:01 PM XXCoder: like office mill taper tiny
10:01 PM Elmo40: if it even exists...
10:02 PM Elmo40: wiki says there is but if someone actually produces one is another story
10:02 PM gregcnc: iso ten is somewhat common
10:02 PM XXCoder: office mill haas does exist
10:02 PM gregcnc: iso10
10:02 PM Elmo40: iso10. metric... w00t
10:02 PM Elmo40: ;-)
10:02 PM gregcnc: https://www.ebay.com/itm/161398783776
10:03 PM Elmo40: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32304908427.html
10:03 PM Elmo40: she is tiny! i like.
10:03 PM XXCoder: also expensive lol
10:03 PM XXCoder: I got bt30 for cheaper
10:10 PM ziper: anyone want to guess a value on these two machines https://imgur.com/a/65bPp0V
10:10 PM ziper: I apologize for the terrible pictures
10:10 PM ziper: supposedly the first is in running condition, but the matsuura needs a little work
10:11 PM XXCoder: rust
10:11 PM XXCoder: maybe you should hire one of those "restoration" youtubers
10:11 PM XXCoder: it will look damn good.
10:11 PM Elmo40: ziper, $800 for the first one...
10:12 PM XXCoder: of course it wonmt work as well..
10:12 PM XXCoder: but damn sexy looking lol
10:14 PM ziper: what about weight? 2 tons?
10:19 PM Elmo40: for the first one?
10:19 PM Elmo40: not that much
10:19 PM Elmo40: maybe 3/4T
10:20 PM Elmo40: no... maybe 1.5T
10:21 PM ziper: wondering if I need a special loader
10:24 PM Javabean: meh, thats only 3000 pounds... surely you have seen people that put about that much into a F-150
10:24 PM roycroft: i've hauled that much weight in my 1/2 ton toyota pickup
10:25 PM roycroft: only very slowly, for a very short distance though
10:26 PM Javabean: nah, i have seen people put a pallet of cement in the back of an f-150 and drive off... i have seen f-150'
10:26 PM Javabean: s on the highway(about 60mph) with what looked like a whole pallet in the back
10:27 PM Javabean: not sure it was good for their hitch... but the f=150 on the highway didn't seem to have one anymore
10:33 PM ziper: my volvo has a tow rating of 3k
10:37 PM Javabean: thats a shame, a trailer that could handle that mill would probably max your towrating by itself