#linuxcnc Logs

Nov 27 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:25 AM Deejay: moin
04:32 AM Loetmichel: hehe, "unreliable CNC mill Spindle cooling pump problem" solved. Or at least mitigated, now i can see if it hangs again: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17607&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 3dPrint FTW! ;-)
04:34 AM XXCoder: that white thing at one of hoses?
04:44 AM Loetmichel: yep
04:44 AM Loetmichel: its a little propeller inside that rotates driven by the water flow
04:47 AM XXCoder: its pretty tiny for cooling?
04:48 AM Loetmichel: only 6mm hose, not that much cooling anyways
04:49 AM XXCoder: lol ok
04:49 AM XXCoder: for overall water cooling you have radator or something?
04:51 AM Loetmichel: only a plastic bucket
04:52 AM Loetmichel: the spindle takes 30 min for heating up noticeably if the pump is blocked... not that much heat to carry away anyways
04:53 AM TekniQue: Loetmichel: that's pretty neat
04:53 AM Loetmichel: there you can see both cooling systems in their full glory
04:53 AM Loetmichel: ... and a forgetful coworker... :-)
04:53 AM TekniQue: what material is it printed out of?
04:53 AM Loetmichel: (had to switch on the pump on the second machine)
04:53 AM Loetmichel: TekniQue: PLA, so it acts as an "overtemp" indicator as well ;)
04:54 AM Loetmichel: (if that water gets to 60°C....)
04:55 AM XXCoder: if you ever need more, you could probably buy a used car radator of some kind, like oil or even tiny power steering cooling radator and use a fan
04:57 AM Loetmichel: yes. or a PC radiator
04:57 AM XXCoder: yeah though never looked though those never needed one so dunno how much heat it can get rid of
04:58 AM Loetmichel: depends on the number of 120mm fans mounted
04:58 AM Loetmichel: there are 1x to 6x last time i looked
04:58 AM Loetmichel: :-)
04:58 AM XXCoder: fancy
04:59 AM Loetmichel: i would say from about 300W for an 1x to 2kW or so for a 6x ;)
04:59 AM XXCoder: thats lot of heat removal ability. not bad
04:59 AM Loetmichel: just a guess though
05:00 AM Loetmichel: depends a little on the airflow of the fans and the enviroment temp. And of course the desired cooling temp
05:00 AM Loetmichel: the higher it can get the better
05:01 AM Loetmichel: a usual car radiator with its big fan can remove around 40 to 200kw of heat depending on engine size and radiator size
05:02 AM Loetmichel: it has to because cars have about 1/3 power into the shaft, 1/3 into the exhaust and 1/3 into the cooling system
05:02 AM Tom_L: morning
05:02 AM XXCoder: hey
05:02 AM Loetmichel: so for the engine not to overheat the radiator has to be able to remove about as much heat as you have HP
05:02 AM XXCoder: too bad we cant reclaim 2/3
05:04 AM Loetmichel: google carnot cycle
05:04 AM XXCoder: yeah known to me
05:05 AM Loetmichel: max efficiency of a piston engine is about 30 to 40%, depending on fuel and design
05:05 AM Loetmichel: IIRC theoretical maximum is around 43% or so
05:05 AM XXCoder: I wonder if we could use stirlings to reclaim some of that energy
05:06 AM Loetmichel: some: sure
05:06 AM Loetmichel: not that much though
05:06 AM XXCoder: great for cars that use engine only for recharging
05:06 AM XXCoder: more they extract the bhe better
05:06 AM Loetmichel: because low temp differential stirlings have a abysmal efficiency as well
05:07 AM Loetmichel: big ships do that IIRC
05:07 AM Loetmichel: they have stirlings on the exhaust
05:07 AM XXCoder: car engine have pretty large heat differnal, I would use higher temperate ones.
05:07 AM Loetmichel: you cant use much of it though
05:07 AM Loetmichel: because that would overheat the engine
05:07 AM XXCoder: and low temperate down the road
05:08 AM XXCoder: too bad we cant do "heat one way" gateways
05:15 AM Tom_L: 31F, Hi 47
05:16 AM XXCoder: heh cylinder bomb is really crushing temperates here
05:16 AM XXCoder: 36f now
05:16 AM XXCoder: today was 41f
05:17 AM XXCoder: tomorrow is big jump down at 38f/32f
05:49 AM jthornton: morning
05:49 AM XXCoder: yo
06:24 AM Javabean: Elmo40: gotta finish building it
07:21 AM Loetmichel: TekniQue/ XXCoder: just noticed that i forgot the video link above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-kpV2Msn0 <- THERE you can see both machines in their full glory. AND the forgetful coworker ;)
07:21 AM XXCoder: looking
07:22 AM XXCoder: not watchable, dizzy now
07:23 AM Loetmichel: at least its not vertical video ;)
07:23 AM XXCoder: lol indeed
07:45 AM miss0r: g'day
07:46 AM XXCoder: yo
07:47 AM miss0r: whatup?
07:48 AM miss0r: Still no buyers for my old maho...
07:48 AM miss0r: I had two people call to ask about it, but neither have called back.
07:49 AM XXCoder: drat
07:50 AM miss0r: well.. yeah. Time for the old maho is running out. come 12th december I will take down the article(one month running time) and scrap it for parts
08:01 AM gloops: what its value miss0r?
08:53 AM beachbumpete1: Happy Thanksgiving everyone I know its early :)
09:19 AM gregcnc: missor is the maho parked in front of your house?
09:19 AM gregcnc: miss0r^
09:20 AM conmega: Is there a good doc explaining what the names of the vhd files for the mesa source means? I have a 6i24-16 I am attempting to use with a 7i33 and so far it seems I must build my own bitfile for the mesa card. Just having trouble figuring out which file to get started with as a selection in the top file. SVSS,SVST,etc... means nothing to me?
09:33 AM pcw_home: for a 7I33 you would normally use a SVST4xx bitfile
09:33 AM pcw_home: or SV12xxx
09:34 AM pcw_home: if in doubt about pinouts you can read them from the card with:
09:34 AM pcw_home: sudo mesaflash --device 5i24 --readhmid
09:37 AM pcw_home: (note the "5i24" is deliberate)
09:39 AM conmega: Thanks, I found an SVST8_4_7I33_7I47S_72.vhd I should be-able to work off of? I should just need to remove the 7I47 part and add back in the null i/o statements on the second connection.
09:40 AM conmega: And yup I understand the whole 5i24 thing, I left my 6i24 in the default 5i24 compatibility mode. I would have gotten a 5i24 if I had a PC with PCI laying around instead of PCIe :)
09:41 AM jymmmm: And we have snow
09:46 AM gregcnc: anyone have a print for Hardinge 5C step chuck taper?
09:47 AM beachbumpete1: Its getting cold up there isn't it :)
09:54 AM conmega: Ah I am finding more of the info I was looking for here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html
09:54 AM conmega: Slowly piecing this together...
09:56 AM conmega: Ah I see SV=Servo, ST=Stepper, SS=Serial?
10:40 AM genii: Hello. I would like to ask if someone has a recommendation of where to purchase a set of numbered drill bits from around #46 ( ~2mm ) down to around #87 ( ~ 0.25mm)
10:42 AM cpresser: numbered drills is something imperial i assume?
10:45 AM genii: cpresser: I'm going by the chart displayed here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit_sizes#Number_and_letter_gauge_drill_bit_sizes
10:46 AM conmega: Thanks for the help pcw_home I think I found what I needed to get this built I am just hitting a compilation problem that seems somewhat common on ISE 14.5 on my linuxcnc box, going to try installing it on my desktop and compiling there. Its the whole "cannot find sslbp" thing within sserialwa.vhd problem...
10:46 AM conmega: I pulled hostmot2.zip from mesanet.com just a minute ago to ensure I have whatever the latest out there was too so it shouldn't be that.
10:47 AM pcw_home: conmega: you would not need to change anything, that bitfile will work as is
10:48 AM conmega: Sure, but the second 50pin header would be setup for a 7i47 would it not? I plan to use both 50 pins for I/O... I am retrofitting a machine with a LOT of I/O, some I may remove and consolidate but I will be at-least using two connectors worth. I actually grabbed a 7i90 to play with for even extra I/O if I need it...
10:50 AM conmega: Was an old process machine in a silicon fab for putting epoxy on chip packaging... It has a lot of pneumatics and such that I may want for my repurposing, not CNC machining, so I was attempting to get a bare 7i33 on first header, the other two open for HAL to twiddle as GPIO.
10:50 AM pcw_home: it will work fine, as will 5i24_16_sv12.bit and most of the svst4xxx,svst8xxx bitfiles
10:51 AM pcw_home: the special functions on the second and third connectors don't matter if you dont enable them
10:51 AM conmega: Hrm ok, I was under the impression that those vhd source "PIN" files were defining the pins, but I also know there is configuration in HAL for defining pins so I am not really sure which pin assigments matter the most for me.
10:51 AM pcw_home: (every pin can be GPIO)
10:52 AM conmega: Ah ok, so those are defined in the pin file as to where they would go as special functions if enabled, but if not enabled they are simply GPIO?
10:52 AM pcw_home: basically all pins are GPIO unless setup by the driver to do the alternate pin function
10:54 AM pcw_home: the driver can enable functions on a 0..n basis so say you use the SV12 bitfile (for 3x 7I33s)
10:55 AM pcw_home: if set num_pwmgens=4 num_encoders=4 only the first connectors special I/O will be enabled
10:56 AM pcw_home: (the hardware allows this to be done on a pin by pin basis but the driver takes a simpler approach to keep the command line within bounds)
10:58 AM conmega: Oh ok! That sounds good to me then! I think I know where to go from here. Thanks for the explanation. I should be-able to use pncconf with the 5i23 as a base using the SV12 bitfile and use that to generate a set of config files and go from there, changing 5i23 to 5i24 then. I believe I have seen people mention that.
10:59 AM conmega: Thanks for the help. There is a lot to understand here and I have been trying to go through it without being too much of a bother... Hopefully I should be set though to get a few axis moving.
11:28 AM Tom_L: genii depends where you're located
11:31 AM Tom_L: you'll have more problem finding the tiny ones as most sets stop before #87
11:49 AM W1N9Zr0: genii: princessauto the cheap 115pc set with fractional/letter/numbers down to #60 on sale https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/115-pc-high-speed-steel-drill-bit-set/A-p8721052e
11:49 AM W1N9Zr0: and kbc has a 61-80 set https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-001-0200
11:55 AM genii: W1N9Zr0: Thanks!
11:56 AM genii: Tom_L: Yeah, Toronto... we have a Princess Auto here so that's good
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: https://drillbitsunlimited.com/Two-pieces-each-size-87-89-90-91-92-carbide-drill-bits-S1-P2021628.aspx
11:59 AM CaptHindsight: https://drillbitsunlimited.com/Variety-Sets-Carbide-Drill-Bits-C262273.aspx
12:01 PM CaptHindsight: more tiny stuff https://www.microdrillbits.com/20304050-bit-packs-category-73
12:14 PM jymmmm: ve7it: having fun in the storm?
01:04 PM beachbumpete1: Tom_L: Hey man hows your thanksgiving shaping up? Have not spoken to you in awhile.
01:05 PM Tom_L: good so far, just knocked off work for the day
01:06 PM Tom_L: this will be TG#2
01:06 PM beachbumpete1: Sweet! Hows your monster mini mill coming along
01:06 PM Tom_L: works good
01:06 PM beachbumpete1: damn one is enough for me LOL
01:06 PM Tom_L: kids wanted 'traditional' so we did that last week
01:07 PM beachbumpete1: I am kinda pissed off at my machine
01:07 PM Tom_L: tomorrow won't be so traditional
01:07 PM Tom_L: goin to my sis's
01:07 PM beachbumpete1: spindle bearings finally started to make noise
01:07 PM beachbumpete1: so I tore it down
01:07 PM beachbumpete1: paid shit tons of money for new bearings
01:07 PM beachbumpete1: very carefully put it all together and lubed as directed
01:07 PM Tom_L: gotta be careful with spindle bearings
01:07 PM beachbumpete1: now getting some noises on the break in procedure
01:08 PM beachbumpete1: I was EXTREMELY careful
01:08 PM beachbumpete1: cant afford to buy another set of these damn bearings
01:08 PM beachbumpete1: but it is looking like I might have to now.
01:08 PM beachbumpete1: have been down for weeks now
01:08 PM Tom_L: you'd be better off letting somebody fix it
01:08 PM beachbumpete1: who?
01:09 PM Tom_L: my kid had a spindle cut loose at his work at 20k rpm
01:09 PM beachbumpete1: Its just me here man and I do it all LOL
01:09 PM beachbumpete1: mine is only like 7k RPM
01:09 PM Tom_L: spindles are very precision
01:09 PM beachbumpete1: sure as hell are
01:09 PM beachbumpete1: I have rebuilt quite a few
01:09 PM Tom_L: ok
01:09 PM beachbumpete1: but never had this happen before
01:09 PM beachbumpete1: Most of them were on wood working machinery
01:10 PM beachbumpete1: I am gonna try to lighten the preload and inject some more grease and see if that helps
01:10 PM beachbumpete1: if not then I might just be Shit out of luck..
01:11 PM beachbumpete1: I pressed the old bearings out and pressed the new ones in careful as hell. Everything went together beautifully man I swear
01:11 PM beachbumpete1: I was quite proud of myself
01:11 PM beachbumpete1: then once I started to hit around 2500 rpm in the break in
01:11 PM beachbumpete1: I started getting some noises.
01:11 PM beachbumpete1: It was dead quiet before that
01:12 PM beachbumpete1: spindle felt nice and tight and smooth by hand
01:12 PM beachbumpete1: Im so pissed
01:12 PM beachbumpete1: bearings were over a grand
01:12 PM miss0r: beachbumpete1: Where are you located? (I do this stuff for a living)
01:12 PM beachbumpete1: Florida
01:12 PM beachbumpete1: central east coast
01:12 PM miss0r: ah.. "over there". Thats a bit far from Denmark
01:12 PM beachbumpete1: yup sure as hell is LOL
01:13 PM beachbumpete1: thanks for thinkin of me tho hehehe
01:13 PM miss0r: Did you remember to run it in slowly?
01:13 PM beachbumpete1: actually there is a specific procedure for warm up in the manual...
01:13 PM beachbumpete1: I was following it explicitly
01:13 PM miss0r: also; what kind of bearings are we talking? also oil/grease?
01:14 PM miss0r: I doubt the manual coveres bearing replacement warmup...?
01:14 PM beachbumpete1: permenently greased bearings angular contact
01:14 PM miss0r: angular contact ball bearings?
01:14 PM beachbumpete1: actually it had a procedure on the same page as the spindle breakdown
01:14 PM beachbumpete1: yeah angular contact ball bearings
01:15 PM miss0r: I guess it is possible that they put it in there, but it would be the first time I've ever heard of that case
01:15 PM beachbumpete1: I loaded them with 30 percent grease using the grease the bearings supplier recommended
01:15 PM miss0r: did you measure new width of the new bearings compared to the old ones? (and remade/ground the spacer to fit)
01:15 PM miss0r: they are usualy off by a few 1/1000s of a mm
01:16 PM beachbumpete1: used a syringe to inject the grease and then turned them by hand to distribute the grease
01:16 PM beachbumpete1: the dimensions were identical on the bearings
01:16 PM miss0r: did you actualy measure them? or just went by the specifications?
01:16 PM beachbumpete1: I measured them with my mitutoyo digital caliper
01:17 PM miss0r: so, at best 1/100s mm accuracy
01:17 PM beachbumpete1: the spacer setup in this machine relies on a preloaded nut and lock washer
01:17 PM beachbumpete1: I don't think the spacer would need to be ground
01:17 PM beachbumpete1: the manual said to torque to 78 ftlbs
01:17 PM miss0r: well.. I'm not saying that is what killed it, but I myself have lost a bearing early on doing what I do to that mistake.
01:18 PM beachbumpete1: ah
01:18 PM beachbumpete1: this is a cincinatti arrow 500 non cartridge type spindle
01:18 PM miss0r: also; What was the 'warm up procedure' recommended in the manual?
01:18 PM miss0r: I haven't worked on that particular model. (not too many cincinatti "over here")
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: I've been running into lots of counterfeit bearings
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.stopfakebearings.com/
01:19 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: I always use the same 4 suppliers, they haven't let me down yet
01:19 PM beachbumpete1: I don't have it in front of me but basically like 500 for so many minutes then 750, then 1000 etc etc
01:20 PM beachbumpete1: These were NOT cheap bearings and I think they were made in UK
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: I have, they get into the warehouses since the Chinese are copying the boxes
01:21 PM beachbumpete1: The bearing supplier offered to sell me chinese cheaper ones I was like no thanks
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: they are charging regular prices for fake bearings
01:21 PM miss0r: beachbumpete1: On a 7k rpm spindle I would recommend doing 500-750rpm for 30 minuts while stopping every fime minuts to feel the sinde of the taper for heat buildup. then move up to 2000rpm for another 30 minuts, again feeling the taper as you go
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: they have the good bearing co'samp and part number and the boxes are printed very similar
01:21 PM beachbumpete1: I am gonna take it apart over the long weekend hoping to get it sorted
01:21 PM miss0r: and for the first few days not run it above 5k rpm
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: samp/stamp
01:22 PM beachbumpete1: yeah I was using a digital thermometer on the spindle body to check temps
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: automotive bearings are the worst
01:22 PM beachbumpete1: never got too warm at all
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: paid for a good brand, had some only last 2k miles
01:23 PM miss0r: beachbumpete1: erhm.. is it equipped with spindle cooling? (if so that measurements is no good) - The best place to feel it is inside the taper, as that is by far the closest(least material in between your fingers and the bearing) you can get to the bearings
01:23 PM beachbumpete1: that is essentially what I did
01:23 PM beachbumpete1: the spindle body is all cast iron
01:23 PM beachbumpete1: so yeah you can only check the side where it is thinnest and then inside the taper
01:24 PM miss0r: Indeed. Just offering my 2 cents here ;)
01:24 PM beachbumpete1: my machine does not have spindle cooling
01:24 PM beachbumpete1: anything you could offer is MOST appreciated
01:24 PM miss0r: another question, as I didn't see the start of the conversation: What are your symptoms of 'broken bearing' ?
01:25 PM beachbumpete1: like I said i will take it down and inspect and reset the preload lighter and then try again.
01:25 PM CaptHindsight: "Since its launch two years ago, the app SKF Authenticate has helped to identify fake bearings. 50 percent of all requests were determined counterfeits."
01:25 PM CaptHindsight: beachbumpete1: how long did the new bearings run while making the "old" sounds?
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: were the old bearings visibly worn?
01:26 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: Pretty useless statistic :) As only those whom suspect a bearing is fake will take the time to contact them
01:26 PM beachbumpete1: well it started sounding a bit noisy like a mechanical noise you would expect from an old worn set of bearings, then at one point it sounded like one of the ball bearings stopped spinning for a moment and made a light scraping sound is the best way I can describe it
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: can you compare appearances?
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: crap
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: well you'll see when you tear it down
01:26 PM miss0r: beachbumpete1: Was this during warmup?
01:27 PM beachbumpete1: honestly the old bearings aside from being dirty did not appear all that bad.
01:27 PM beachbumpete1: yeah this was during the warmup
01:27 PM miss0r: ahh
01:27 PM miss0r: okay.. I might be able to calm you down a bit then :)
01:27 PM beachbumpete1: like I said I got up to I think 1500 or 2000 rpm in thw break in procedure and got these noises
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.northlandtool.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/15546-Cincinnati-Arrow-500.gif
01:28 PM miss0r: sounds you feel like you do NOT want to hear during initial runin is actualy not uncommen
01:28 PM miss0r: the sound of the grease being distributed will absolutly do that.
01:28 PM beachbumpete1: really?
01:28 PM miss0r: and yes, it will also sound like the balls are not moving too
01:28 PM miss0r: yes
01:29 PM beachbumpete1: holy shit
01:29 PM beachbumpete1: maybe I over reacted
01:29 PM CaptHindsight: better safe than sorry
01:29 PM miss0r: Don't worrie about that.
01:29 PM miss0r: first time I helped put together a spindle with my "teacher" it said like that.. i reached for the emergency stop, and he grapped my hand knowing beforehand I was probably going to do that
01:30 PM beachbumpete1: it just sounded a bit noisy and that moment the sound like a ball stopped spinning I was like Oh shit and shut it down quickly
01:30 PM miss0r: it will sound like that
01:30 PM miss0r: you need to give it time to heat the grease a little but and let the bearings mecanically move it to where it will rest
01:30 PM miss0r: but=bit
01:30 PM beachbumpete1: wow I had no idea but as I said most of the bearings I have done were wood machine spindles never one this big
01:31 PM beachbumpete1: so would you start the break in procedure over again?
01:31 PM beachbumpete1: keeping eye on the temps etc?
01:31 PM miss0r: if you took your time putting it together and made sure no contaminants got in there and otherwise is put back together proberly, yes
01:32 PM beachbumpete1: man I was STUPID careful I cannot afford to buy another set of these bearings believe me I was as careful as I have ever been LOL
01:32 PM miss0r: what I usualy do is "heat" the spindle doing 500-750rpm for 30 minuts, stopping every five minuts to feel the inside of the taper
01:32 PM miss0r: then when that is done bump it up to 2000rpm and do the same thing.
01:32 PM beachbumpete1: right from 500 to 2k?
01:32 PM miss0r: when you get those noises reduce the spindle RPM to below where they are audible
01:33 PM miss0r: and then bump it up slowly again to where they are audible and back off
01:33 PM beachbumpete1: no shit
01:33 PM beachbumpete1: man thank you I really appreciate it
01:33 PM miss0r: do this until it rests at 5k rpm without noises, and let it stay there for a while while checking for temp
01:33 PM beachbumpete1: I will try that this weekend.
01:33 PM miss0r: and run it for a few days before pushing it to the max
01:34 PM beachbumpete1: I almost never ran it over 5500 before on the original bearings..
01:34 PM miss0r: the jump from 500 to 2000 might be much.. put 1000rpm inbetween if that makes you feel better :)
01:34 PM beachbumpete1: LOL
01:34 PM miss0r: I mean, this is alot of experience & feel
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.skf.com/us/products/bearings-units-housings/super-precision-bearings/principles/lubrication/grease-lubrication/running-in-of-grease-lubricated-bearings/index.html
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.skf.com/binary/12-455013/0901d196807fc773-1302-0021---13383-w---EN_tcm_12-455013.png
01:34 PM miss0r: the sound you heard was almost like a dry bearing you rotate fast a few times?
01:36 PM beachbumpete1: yeah something like that. basically it sounded like one of the balls stopped spinning while the rest of the bearing kept going.. making a light scraping noise momentarily
01:36 PM miss0r: yeah, don't sweat it ;)
01:36 PM beachbumpete1: I figured I fubar'd my new thousand dollar bearings
01:36 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: Yeah, those are good procedures. But doing the "heat up" until it levels out is only realy something I would do with tapered roller bearings - I don't think it makes much sense on angular contact bearings
01:37 PM beachbumpete1: miss0r: I will check in with you guys here when I try it again and maybe I will make a video or something of the sounds..
01:37 PM miss0r: beachbumpete1: heck, you still might have if you haven't measured the bearings with a 1/10000" micrometer and ground the spacer respectively.. but I think you'll be alright
01:37 PM beachbumpete1: so pleased to hear they might be ok
01:38 PM miss0r: Replacing expensive bearings is not for the faint of heart :)
01:38 PM beachbumpete1: If you look at the spindle diagram I don't honestly see how that spacer thickness is an issue
01:39 PM beachbumpete1: hell no its not
01:39 PM beachbumpete1: I swear I turned white when I heard that noise start
01:39 PM beachbumpete1: hehehe
01:39 PM miss0r: Well, I don't know that particular spindle setup, so I couldn't tell you for sure.
01:39 PM miss0r: hehe Yeah, I know that feeling
01:40 PM beachbumpete1: the spacer is a long tall steel sleeve that goes around the spindle body
01:40 PM beachbumpete1: its a slip fit over the OD
01:40 PM miss0r: the bearings I did that with was two paired sets of angular bearings in a BT50 spindle that ran 12k rpm. Ceramic balls'n everything. Those are damn expensive
01:40 PM miss0r: I'd need a drawing to make sense of that :D
01:41 PM miss0r: (the first time it happened to me)
01:41 PM beachbumpete1: I will look at it closer when I get home
01:41 PM beachbumpete1: thanks so much man...
01:41 PM miss0r: No problem
01:41 PM beachbumpete1: gotta get back to work here now. Have a good day
01:41 PM miss0r: you too
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.vxb.com/Full-Ceramic-Ball-Bearings-s/130.htm?searching=Y&sort=2&cat=130&show=15&page=1
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: wholesale pricing
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.vxb.com/Angular-Contact-Bearings-Whole-sale-price-s/119.htm?searching=Y&sort=2&cat=119&show=15&page=1
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: Unground-Ball-Bearings! otherwise known as polygons
01:48 PM miss0r: lol
01:52 PM beachbumpete1: Hey guys another quick question.
01:52 PM beachbumpete1: I use draftsight for most of my 2D stuff
01:53 PM beachbumpete1: I create paperspace drawings in the sheets tab
01:53 PM beachbumpete1: but for some reason when I make multiple paper space drawings to print to pdf or plot
01:53 PM beachbumpete1: when I save the drawing it only seems to want to save the first paper space sheet
01:53 PM beachbumpete1: anyone else have this issue?
01:54 PM beachbumpete1: is there a way to make it save all of the sheet spaces?
02:22 PM ve7it: jymmmm, hey!.... didnt get hit too hard here, snowed for about 1/2 hour yesterday afternoon but nothing stuck. Woke up this morning to a very thin layer of ice on the fish pond... not bad end of November for the first hard frost. Its about (3C) 37F ouside now
02:24 PM Jymmm: ve7it: Snowed about 6" yesterday, melted slightly, and is beginngin to snow now again
02:25 PM Jymmm: so slushy snow atm
02:25 PM ve7it: just about right amount to get the jeep out and practice your donuts!
02:26 PM Jymmm: No 4wd sadly
02:48 PM * JT-Shop hit a rock crossing a creek and ended up in the creek on his ass... 50F wind blowing 4 miles from the trail head
02:50 PM Tom_L: fun
02:51 PM JT-Shop: yea good thing a big rock stopped my fall
02:53 PM Tom_L: trying to install usb drivers for xilinx on buster ain't goin so well
02:55 PM SpeedEvil: https://youtu.be/-AAQzSkRZVg?t=1181 some chunky chain
04:06 PM Deejay: gn8
04:52 PM taloot: hello
04:53 PM taloot: hardly get rid of mirc, and install another irc software
04:55 PM Elmo40: Javabean, it won't build itself! ;-)
05:08 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:08 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, you are you around?
06:20 PM Javabean: Elmo40: i noticed
06:33 PM skunkworks: _unreal_: yes?
07:21 PM skunkworks: Now I know why people build dedicated video encoding servers.. This i7 laptop is taking 2 hours to encode a 50 min video...
07:22 PM Tom_L: they do take a while
07:24 PM CaptHindsight: especially a 2160P H.265
07:26 PM CaptHindsight: was driving with the radio on "1-877-kars-for-kids is in my head, it's like some psychops weapon
07:27 PM gregcnc: oh finally I'l be able to get back to the mill. car i was putting an engine in started and drove today
07:27 PM CaptHindsight: \0/
07:28 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, hi herre for the moment
07:29 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, http://bodgesoc.blogspot.com/2018/05/STMBL.html talk to me
07:29 PM gregcnc: i have a couple codes, but they look minor
07:29 PM _unreal_: if I'm not here to responce I'm out T day shopping
07:30 PM gregcnc: is the second stmbl available yet? I should have a link somewhere
07:30 PM _unreal_: second?
07:30 PM _unreal_: I'm only just learning about them
07:30 PM skunkworks: _unreal_: cool swiss army knife servo amp.. But currently you cannot get the power stage.
07:30 PM Tom_L: gregcnc haven't heard
07:30 PM skunkworks: so they are re-designing it.
07:30 PM _unreal_: hum
07:30 PM gregcnc: first was built on an obsolete somethign or another
07:30 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, so I have access to " now and then" very expensive BLDC servos
07:31 PM skunkworks: Currently I might look at ebay amc drives... Or the like.
07:32 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=11rRfUwgvbw0m47y3En9ytUBXOHl5YvJn
07:32 PM rene_dev_: the one without the iram?
07:32 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, those motors come from seatel satalites
07:32 PM rene_dev_: its almost done, I am soldering a prototype now
07:32 PM gregcnc: that's great news
07:33 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, you can zoom into see the specs
07:33 PM gregcnc: what V, A on those motors?
07:33 PM _unreal_: ahh
07:33 PM _unreal_: like 2amps 24v? one sec I'll look
07:33 PM gregcnc: oh small, did you post some crowd funded drive recently or did I see it elsewhere
07:34 PM _unreal_: the little one's 2.2amps
07:34 PM _unreal_: 24vcd
07:34 PM _unreal_: 22oz/in
07:34 PM _unreal_: for the msall drives
07:34 PM skunkworks: wow - really small
07:34 PM _unreal_: dont know on the large derive. the large drives are 3x the size and have an encoder on them
07:35 PM _unreal_: 2150RPM
07:35 PM _unreal_: small one's are just BLDC
07:35 PM _unreal_: ERR hall encoder
07:35 PM _unreal_: :)
07:36 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, they have these motor drivers though
07:36 PM _unreal_: A3936SED
07:36 PM _unreal_: the motor controller boards
07:36 PM _unreal_: so every now and then one one of the yachts tosses a marine SAT dish I grab it
07:36 PM _unreal_: I have a small pile of these motor controller boards
07:36 PM _unreal_: and motors so far
07:37 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, I'd love to get one of those motor controller boards converted.
07:37 PM sync: skunkworks: we have stock with the old IPM tho
07:37 PM _unreal_: pull the chips and put them on a custom PCB
07:37 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, funny thing is that the motors are aluminum and stainless
07:37 PM _unreal_: the one's I get
07:37 PM _unreal_: :)
07:37 PM _unreal_: then again marine
07:38 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, so regardless I'm kind of interested in those controllers? I have brushed servos that I want to use on the new home cnc machine I'm building
07:38 PM skunkworks: sync: ?
07:39 PM _unreal_: and the Z would be nice to use one of the encoder based BLDC motors
07:39 PM skunkworks: _unreal_: I like them (stmbl) but currently waiting on the next version.
07:39 PM sync: skunkworks: we have stock with the old power module
07:39 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, are you US based?
07:39 PM sync: so you could just buy one
07:40 PM _unreal_: sync, ? the stmbl?
07:40 PM sync: yes
07:40 PM _unreal_: hum
07:40 PM gregcnc: https://www.crowdsupply.com/citrus-cnc/tarocco
07:40 PM _unreal_: sync, I'm building a new home cnc machine
07:40 PM skunkworks: _unreal_: they would be over kill for those servos...
07:41 PM skunkworks: sync: how much? I already used one that I was planning for a conversion./
07:41 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cZ_rTRuKh85aVzAOJW3WQTf6sAHK0dZi
07:41 PM sync: skunkworks: ask rene_dev_
07:41 PM skunkworks: ok
07:41 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, do you know of cheaper BLDC servo contorllers?
07:41 PM skunkworks: analog - amc off ebay
07:42 PM _unreal_: as I said I have these controllers for the motors them selfs BUT I dont know how to control them
07:42 PM _unreal_: I believe they are voltage driven
07:42 PM _unreal_: got a link? not sure I know what your talking about or model
07:42 PM skunkworks: sync: thanks - will ask
07:42 PM rene_dev_: skunkworks 250 complete, 120 as kit
07:42 PM Rab: _unreal_, did you see gregcnc's link?
07:43 PM _unreal_: prob not
07:43 PM skunkworks: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMC-Brushless-PWM-Servo-Drive/283663384481?hash=item420ba7bfa1:g:Xs4AAOSwiCFdvxE6
07:43 PM skunkworks: rene_dev_: as in kit like I got from andy?
07:44 PM rene_dev_: kit means assembled pcb + iram + caps
07:44 PM _unreal_: ahh crowd supply
07:44 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, lol you say that the stmbl is over kill yet priced at 50% of the link you just posted
07:45 PM skunkworks: _unreal_: didn't look at the price - just showing examples..
07:45 PM skunkworks: you can get them for <50 if you keep an eye out
07:45 PM _unreal_: Rab, ya I've looked at the torroco
07:46 PM skunkworks: rene_dev_: how many kits do you have?
07:46 PM _unreal_: I'm trying to price out and get ideas on what would be the best choice and looking at reviews
07:46 PM _unreal_: because my home CNC I'm building is mainly going to be based on brushed servos
07:48 PM skunkworks: _unreal_: Confused.. The amc drive was 99 and the stmbl kit is 120
07:48 PM skunkworks: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMC-Brushless-PWM-Servo-Drive/283663384481?hash=item420ba7bfa1:g:Xs4AAOSwiCFdvxE6
07:49 PM _unreal_: WHAT? I thougth I red $50 something for the stmbl
07:49 PM skunkworks: The stmbl drives are way more flexible...
07:49 PM rene_dev_: and stmbl also reads the encoder, and does IO
07:50 PM rene_dev_: so you save the analog mesa card
07:51 PM _unreal_: I'm also flurting with http://ve7it.cowlug.org/dspic-servo.html
07:51 PM rene_dev_: thats like really basic
07:51 PM rene_dev_: and only dc
07:51 PM _unreal_: I have DC :)
07:52 PM skunkworks: brushed only
07:52 PM _unreal_: and THE SAME motors
07:52 PM _unreal_: lol
07:52 PM rene_dev_: if you are interested, email me. I need to get some sleep now.
07:53 PM _unreal_: rene_dev_, are you talking to me?
07:53 PM _unreal_: or skunkworks
07:53 PM skunkworks: That drive you just linked only drives brushed servo motors
07:53 PM skunkworks: (not brushless)
07:53 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, I have the very same motors in the photos
07:54 PM Rab: _unreal_, you're planning to use brushed DC motors for X/Y and brushless for Z, correct?
07:54 PM _unreal_: maybe
07:54 PM _unreal_: I need one more brushed to hav e a set
07:54 PM _unreal_: I have an encoder if I "NEED" but I'd prefer to have 3 of the same motors
07:54 PM _unreal_: other wise I'll try to get the BLDC I have going for Z
07:55 PM _unreal_: I believ ethe BLDC I have that I linked a photo to a little while ago, is 100oz/in
07:55 PM _unreal_: more then enough for a 5" Z
07:56 PM _unreal_: Rab, and gearing it down with belts as well
07:57 PM _unreal_: I'm gearing everyting down on this machine that I'm bilding
07:57 PM _unreal_: I was thinking about going ballscrew but I'm leaning twards threaded rod
07:57 PM _unreal_: I did a few tests with this special molding wax and got AMAZING results.
07:58 PM _unreal_: molding wax for making fiberglass parts
07:58 PM _unreal_: no real ware on the threaded rod and VERY VERY little resistance
07:59 PM _unreal_: I used my digital torque adapter and read a 58% drop in resistance
07:59 PM _unreal_: AND this wax dries BUT melts the moment it sees friction.
07:59 PM _unreal_: so no fliging mess from a high rpm rod
08:00 PM _unreal_: My current machine works great but I give it a healthy feeding of white lithium every 10 hours
08:00 PM _unreal_: on the threaded rod
08:01 PM _unreal_: oddly enough my rails have more ware on them then my threaded rod. HELL my Z the bearings are cutting grooves into the rail
08:02 PM _unreal_: NOT a bad thing but still impressive non the less. kind of did its own channel guide if you will. I'll have to take a photo and post it sooner or later
08:02 PM _unreal_: bbiab need to go do the shopping real quick. I'm starting to get sleepy
08:02 PM _unreal_: if I sit here any longer I'm going to wake up at midnight likely droolling on my keyboard
09:13 PM drdoc: Loetmichel: you here?
09:34 PM drdoc: SpeedEvil: the triple drilling rig I worked on in the '80s, the "draw works" transmission ran a 4plex chain with 5/8" roller pins
09:34 PM drdoc: links were about 2" long
09:35 PM SpeedEvil: :)
09:35 PM drdoc: that crap was unbelievably heavy
09:36 PM drdoc: I'm gonna say one chain would be about 9' unlinked, and it took 2 of us to handle it
09:37 PM drdoc: but then, our drill string was typically over 50,000 lb when we finished a well, and that draw works would pull it at 3-4 feet/second
09:38 PM drdoc: those primary chains took a beating
09:40 PM drdoc: this one has a smaller sixplex, but you get the idea...
09:40 PM drdoc: http://attachmentatgdc.blogspot.com/2014/08/day-6-1022014-drawworks-brake-system.html
09:42 PM drdoc: hey
09:42 PM drdoc: have any of you used a "bagless" indoor vacuum for a dust collector?
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: drdoc: yes, gets dusty after a while
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: or the filters get clogged too often
10:06 PM drdoc: I'm thinking about printing a Dust Deputy clone
10:08 PM drdoc: I may or may not have nabbed a 12A Bissell upright during the city's latest round of junk collection
10:08 PM drdoc: runs fine, has great suction, even with trashed final filters
10:10 PM * Javabean shudders
10:10 PM drdoc: ?
10:10 PM Javabean: last time i grabbed up a "curb-side" free vacuum... it smelled of catpiss bad enough that i HAD to put it back on the curb
10:10 PM drdoc: heh, yeah
10:11 PM drdoc: our last roommate left one in his closet, a very nice one
10:11 PM Javabean: i thought i could save parts, so i dissassembled it(wearing gloves and a respirator). no good, everything was bad
10:12 PM drdoc: I don't know what he cleaned with that thing, but I hauled it to the curb with gloves on
10:12 PM drdoc: I plugged in this Bissell and ran it for 30 minutes as soon as I brought it home
10:13 PM drdoc: figured it would go straight back to the curb
10:13 PM drdoc: it doesn't smell, it works fine, it just has that screamy whine they get when the accordion filter's clogged
10:14 PM drdoc: and survey says I can replace that for about $4
10:15 PM Javabean: congrats!!
10:15 PM drdoc: thanks!
10:15 PM drdoc: with everything I don't need stripped off in, it's about 20" tall and 10-11" diameter
10:16 PM drdoc: off it*
10:16 PM CaptHindsight: use water as the filter
10:16 PM drdoc: The Dust Bong!
10:16 PM drdoc: I actually thought about that
10:17 PM drdoc: I'm going to try the cyclone route first
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhqVIKTKBow&vl=en
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: only make smaller bubbles
10:18 PM drdoc: it's got a cute little PTO shaft too, where the beater-bar drive was
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: but more bubbles
10:19 PM CaptHindsight: cyclone is good for the big stuff >>microns
10:23 PM drdoc: Hmmm
10:23 PM drdoc: how would you make smaller bubbles?
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: smaller and more nozzles
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: big nozzle big bubbles
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: 1/2" hose in water will make a big bubble
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: 16 1/16" nozzles will make smaller bubbles
10:26 PM drdoc: so put a perforated cap on the intake hose?
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: think shower head with lots of small nozzles
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: that releases the air into the water
10:26 PM drdoc: right
10:27 PM drdoc: orifices, not nozzles
10:27 PM drdoc: <-- a little pedantic
10:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71SJr9kTvsL._SX466_.jpg still nozzles
10:29 PM drdoc: ok
10:30 PM CaptHindsight: only that head would be on the bottom of the water tank
10:30 PM drdoc: right
10:30 PM CaptHindsight: releasing the air to be filtered
10:31 PM CaptHindsight: not the most energy efficient design
10:32 PM drdoc: the most efficient design would take a lot of maintenance
10:32 PM drdoc: progressive filtering
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: tradeoffs
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: as always
10:33 PM drdoc: yup
10:34 PM drdoc: thanks for the input!
10:34 PM drdoc: now it's time to go watch a Polish cop show & veg
10:36 PM CaptHindsight: Comrade Detective?
10:39 PM Javabean: oh, i needed that https://i.imgur.com/sYtYg6N.gifv
10:40 PM drdoc: CaptHindsight: "The Crime" on Netflix
10:41 PM drdoc: If you like nutso psycho cop shows, find "Metod" - NF lists it as "The Method"
10:41 PM drdoc: it's... intense.
10:43 PM * drdoc has been on a "Cop Shows Around The World" tour for a couple of years
10:45 PM drdoc: later, gents
11:53 PM net|: http://www.netpipe.ca/games/irrPhotoPuzzle/