#linuxcnc Logs

Nov 01 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

03:31 AM Deejay: moin
04:58 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: jeez those get so cheap https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Magnetic-Metal-Base-Holder-Stand-Dial-Test-Indicator-Flexible-Tools-US/143298144821?
04:58 AM XXCoder: even has tweak adjustment
04:59 AM XXCoder: but https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Flexible-Magnetic-Metal-Base-Holder-Stand-Dial-Test-Indicator-Tool/143212464387 shows super shitty build
04:59 AM XXCoder: you can see dents lol
05:00 AM jthornton: morning
05:00 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:01 AM Tom_L: morning
05:01 AM XXCoder: jt it seems indictor arms and magnets have gotten super cheap
05:02 AM XXCoder: but looks like crap quality too
05:05 AM jthornton: Tom_L, did you find a way to make construction lines dashed?
05:06 AM XXCoder: freecad?
05:06 AM jthornton: aye
05:06 AM XXCoder: cool
05:06 AM XXCoder: fashed would be nice
05:06 AM Tom_L: no dashed lines
05:07 AM jthornton: darn
05:07 AM Tom_L: it would sure be better imo
05:07 AM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/TURLEN-Dial-Indicator-3D-Magnetic-Base-Holder-14-Reach-Central-Locking-176-lb/233160132193?epid=5010589498&hash=item36496d4661:g:NCQAAOSwajRcgsct
05:07 AM Tom_L: XXCoder i've got one of those
05:07 AM XXCoder: looking
05:07 AM Tom_L: cheap but it works
05:07 AM XXCoder: yeah I have that
05:08 AM Tom_L: just don't over tighten it
05:08 AM XXCoder: i use it once a while, VERY handy to have my own sometimes
05:08 AM jthornton: dang that is cheap
05:08 AM Tom_L: jthornton, i followed the tutorial and it was helpful
05:08 AM Tom_L: it's still lacking features
05:09 AM Tom_L: drawing on a surface there's no way i've seen to constrain to the previous work
05:09 AM Tom_L: and no concentric constraint
05:10 AM jthornton: concentric constraint is needed for sure
05:11 AM XXCoder: sharing same center?
05:11 AM XXCoder: isnt you can just do dot-dot constrant?
05:17 AM Tom_L: XXCoder, the previous geometry isn't visible
05:17 AM Tom_L: nor are edges of solids
05:17 AM XXCoder: oh you can make them show
05:17 AM Tom_L: how?
05:17 AM XXCoder: but its never wise to base constrant on previous steps
05:18 AM XXCoder: select last item and hit space
05:18 AM XXCoder: its show or hide thing
05:18 AM Tom_L: good to know
05:18 AM jthornton: I think they expect you to have a base sketch and base everything off of that
05:18 AM Tom_L: what else you keepin from us?
05:18 AM XXCoder: might be mistaken or obselete info on previous steps
05:18 AM XXCoder: jt yeah I notice its best when I do it that way
05:19 AM XXCoder: whats good short term file upload? want to u0pload a file for you guys
05:19 AM jthornton: space bar makes the body disappear
05:19 AM Tom_L: i don't like they way the do the solid radius feature either
05:19 AM Tom_L: they call out 'thou' instead of letting you enter .001
05:19 AM jthornton: filebin something
05:19 AM Tom_L: so you enter 1
05:20 AM XXCoder: tom they plan to add named edges so chamfer and radiuses work better and stay with edges its defined on
05:20 AM Tom_L: (i set mine up for inch)
05:20 AM Tom_L: but
05:20 AM Tom_L: it's a helluva lot better than the last time i looked at it
05:21 AM Tom_L: and
05:21 AM Tom_L: iges export works
05:21 AM Tom_L: my sw iges doesn't import to my old cad cam very well
05:22 AM Tom_L: catia's works better
05:22 AM Tom_L: sw scatters the surfaces all over the place
05:24 AM XXCoder: https://file.io/G0D7zI https://file.io/ZEJTWh
05:25 AM XXCoder: https://imgur.com/a/OBfIsSW
05:25 AM XXCoder: dont open my fcad if you want to do that challenge first
05:25 AM Tom_L: 404 on the first 2
05:25 AM XXCoder: man that was hard lol
05:25 AM XXCoder: oh I clicked links so its deleted
05:25 AM XXCoder: a sec
05:26 AM XXCoder: https://file.io/NVCphm
05:26 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/practice_drawings/
05:26 AM Tom_L: those are some i've done for the catia class
05:26 AM Tom_L: i did them all both in sw and catia
05:26 AM XXCoder: wow some of those is hard looking
05:27 AM jthornton: what information do they give you to do the drawing?
05:27 AM Tom_L: me?
05:27 AM jthornton: yea
05:27 AM Tom_L: i can give you the pdf if you wanna play
05:27 AM XXCoder: why not
05:27 AM jthornton: sure
05:27 AM Tom_L: i'll have to find it later
05:28 AM Tom_L: it's got over a hundred to do
05:28 AM XXCoder: found better site so both you guys can download lol
05:28 AM Tom_L: i did most of them in class cause i was bored
05:30 AM XXCoder: https://sht.click/rcQ https://sht.click/7gf
05:30 AM XXCoder: have fun exploring heh
05:30 AM XXCoder: sigh brief article https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/Constraint_Concentric/en
05:31 AM Tom_L: JT-Shop can you grab it now? i don't really wanna leave it on the server
05:31 AM Tom_L: 26k
05:31 AM jthornton: yea
05:31 AM jthornton: free time till 8am
05:32 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/JT-SHOP/All%20Problems.pdf
05:32 AM XXCoder: can I have pdf copy too?
05:32 AM Tom_L: grab it
05:32 AM XXCoder: thanks. wow long
05:32 AM XXCoder: 149 pages
05:32 AM Tom_L: ~150 drawings
05:33 AM XXCoder: #54 dang
05:33 AM XXCoder: its around same complexility as one I shared
05:33 AM jthornton: got it
05:33 AM XXCoder: done. thanks
05:34 AM Tom_L: np just keep it to yourself
05:34 AM XXCoder: I have no idea how to do that pot or container thing (hex container)
05:34 AM jthornton: ok
05:34 AM XXCoder: #59
05:34 AM Tom_L: i did it but forget now
05:35 AM Tom_L: ends up being a shell
05:35 AM Tom_L: i can pull it up later probably
05:35 AM XXCoder: i do recommand you guys try make that thing too
05:35 AM Tom_L: which?
05:35 AM Tom_L: there's one similar to that in the pdf
05:35 AM XXCoder: https://imgur.com/a/OBfIsSW
05:36 AM XXCoder: it was google find lol
05:36 AM Tom_L: not hard just time consuming
05:36 AM XXCoder: it was really hard for me, I was just a beginner
05:36 AM XXCoder: note some of stuff I did isnt good way to do it
05:37 AM XXCoder: curved parts drill holes needed a real ugly hack
05:37 AM XXCoder: im sure you guys can find better way
05:38 AM Tom_L: 106 was fun
05:39 AM Tom_L: oh and i have the volume of the parts so i can tell if you did them right :)
05:39 AM Tom_L: if the volume was off it was wrong
05:39 AM XXCoder: 135 is same part!
05:39 AM Tom_L: different ways to do fillets etc
05:39 AM Tom_L: yeah i was looking for it
05:39 AM XXCoder: far more details than what I had tho
05:40 AM XXCoder: lol yeah 106 is what I saw and commented that I have no idea how to do that
05:41 AM XXCoder: definitely need AND I think
05:41 AM Tom_L: 12 uses an offset surface
05:41 AM jthornton: dang pc froze up
05:41 AM Tom_L: iirc
05:41 AM XXCoder: looks very strightforward
05:41 AM Tom_L: 15 was hard to get the volume correct
05:42 AM Tom_L: you had to do the fillets just right
05:42 AM XXCoder: looks fun lol
05:42 AM Tom_L: it was hard to find the centers of some of the holes on 20
05:43 AM Tom_L: and get it right
05:43 AM XXCoder: 16 is iteresting. looks strightforward but then tedious
05:43 AM XXCoder: 18 probably very hard to do on freecad?
05:44 AM Tom_L: 45 was easy
05:45 AM Tom_L: 52 was interesting
05:45 AM XXCoder: i dont even know how to do changing angle wall on freecad
05:46 AM Tom_L: i doubt you can
05:46 AM Tom_L: iirc i used a rotated plane
05:46 AM Tom_L: not sure though
05:46 AM XXCoder: 52 wow its doable but not sure if I can
05:48 AM Tom_L: 119 looks easy but it's hard to get all the radius' just right
05:49 AM XXCoder: 93 and 94 is rather simple?"
05:50 AM XXCoder: just some extrudes
05:50 AM jthornton: yea the two top radius blending together with no center point
05:50 AM XXCoder: long sketching on latter tho
05:50 AM Tom_L: :)
05:50 AM Tom_L: anyway. have fun with em
05:50 AM XXCoder: thanks
05:50 AM jthornton: thanks
05:52 AM Tom_L: i've got the class models if you want the volume on any of em to see if you did it right :)
05:54 AM Tom_L: i'm guessing the fillets would vary slightly from one program to the next but they should be close
05:54 AM XXCoder: i guess so. not sure if freecad can export a model that can be calculated
05:54 AM Tom_L: it won't calculate volume?
05:55 AM XXCoder: dunno, never looked for that lol
05:59 AM XXCoder: man
05:59 AM XXCoder: sometimes I wonder what those parts is for
05:59 AM XXCoder: same for parts I make at work lol
06:01 AM net|: https://www.quora.com/How-long-would-it-take-to-go-around-the-world-in-a-plane-nonstop
06:02 AM XXCoder: what about it?
06:06 AM net|: satellites only take 2 hours to go all the way around
06:08 AM net|: someone in china with a drone could make it to your house in less than 2 days
06:08 AM net|: 200 mph i think for predator drone ?
06:08 AM XXCoder: laucnhes is very very very detectable
06:08 AM XXCoder: ah yeah fly
06:09 AM net|: hybrid gas/electric systems would get it there
06:13 AM net|: tops out at. 217 km/h or 124 mph looks like. ive seen quad copters go 225km/h or 140 mph
06:14 AM net|: "Called the DRL Racer X, the drone can fly at a top speed of 179.6 MPH"
06:36 AM jthornton: so far only down to 28°F
06:36 AM XXCoder: "only" lol it rarely goes that low here
06:40 AM XXCoder: weather is just wrong here
06:40 AM XXCoder: it almost cant go below 30f
06:40 AM XXCoder: and it gets drier in winters so snow is almost a impossibility
07:01 AM net|: anyone know of any affordable highspeed cameras
07:02 AM net|: 3000 frames per second maybe ?
07:02 AM XXCoder: yeah everythings free with 5 finger discount
07:02 AM XXCoder: ;)
07:02 AM XXCoder: kidding. dunnpo
07:28 AM Tom_L: 28F
07:45 AM jthornton: 27°F
08:28 AM Loetmichel: soo, first milling with the new CNC 6040 router in a box. Old Machine is just being dismantled and mounted in the second box... https://youtu.be/oyISrLTxYjI
08:47 AM XXCoder: its funny
08:47 AM XXCoder: im used to bih machines at work
08:47 AM XXCoder: yet your work machine is basicallyu my hobby machine
09:15 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: boss is cheap
09:15 AM XXCoder: well if it can do job it doesnt really matter
09:16 AM Loetmichel: it can
09:16 AM Loetmichel: surprisingly well, too
09:16 AM XXCoder: yeah. is there much post work?
09:17 AM XXCoder: ie cleaning chatter etc
10:43 AM tensaiteki: Does anybody know if it would be possible to run one of the fanuc AC servo drives as a BLDC without using the current feedback lines?
11:27 AM Rab_: Loetmichel, which model Dell is that in the cabinet?
11:27 AM Rab_ is now known as Rab
11:35 AM andypugh: syyl: This looks like your sort of tool. Combination gridning spindle and automatic boring/facing head, as far as I can tell. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153677380347
11:53 AM burklefoo: I suspect you could in pure voltage (PWM) mode with proper feed-forward and modeling. Some newer step drives do this (model the motor)
12:54 PM Loetmichel: Rab: sorry, no idea. If you want i can look tomorrow. just came home from work
01:11 PM Rab: Loetmichel, just curious. Does it perform well with LinuxCNC?
01:12 PM Loetmichel: it does
01:12 PM Loetmichel: needed an LPT card though
01:12 PM Loetmichel: i am to cheap for a mesa ;)
01:12 PM Loetmichel: its a miniPC i bought last year used, from a refurbisher, the series is probably 3-5 years old
01:13 PM Loetmichel: IIRC it has an I5 second gen or something like that
01:13 PM Loetmichel: totally enough for LinuxCNC
01:13 PM Loetmichel: my other machine has an industiral board with a Core2duo 3ghz in it
01:14 PM Rab: Yeah, I have a Core2Duo now and it seems to be fine. But I'm always on the lookout for a newer option.
01:14 PM Loetmichel: and it can do linuxCNC, VLC webcam encoding AND VNC remote deskop at the same time and still no problems
01:14 PM Loetmichel: like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u_ChO1AKYY
01:27 PM CaptHindsight: we found some Celeron 847 boards on ebay for $30, worked fine with preempt_rt
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: you have to go pretty far back to find a cpu without enough power to run LCNC
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: more often it's a broken BIOS that prevents real time
01:29 PM CaptHindsight: but if you want LCNC and image processing and high screen res (4K for example) then it's another story
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/37106-testers-needed-for-new-rtai-packages?start=30
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: Pentium E5500 https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/42800/intel-pentium-processor-e5500-2m-cache-2-80-ghz-800-mhz-fsb.html
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: some i3 540 3GHz results https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/37106-testers-needed-for-new-rtai-packages?start=10
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: anyone know a good source for steel split cone washers? few mm dia
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: example https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/TWRAX1012
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/upload_2017-4-27_20-4-11-jpeg.1449438/
02:57 PM Tom_L: afternoon
04:13 PM Centreline: Hi all, quick question, what is the syntax to loadrt multiple or2 instances? I tried ```loadrt or2 names=or2.0, or2.1```
04:14 PM Centreline: damn no ``` quoting, use slack too much of late sorry
04:14 PM Tom_L: loadrt or2 count=4
04:15 PM Centreline: count=4? is that for 4 or2 instances?
04:15 PM Tom_L: no i just pulled that from my file
04:15 PM Tom_L: count is how many you want
04:15 PM Centreline: I was using count=2 earlier and ended up with some weird lockup on start
04:16 PM Tom_L: then or.0 or.1 to address the 2 instances
04:16 PM Tom_L: or2.0 or2.1
04:17 PM Tom_L: addf or2.0 servo-thread
04:17 PM Tom_L: addf or2.1 servo-thread
04:17 PM Tom_L: then or2.0.in etc
04:19 PM Centreline: hmm it loads with names also if I omit the space after the comma, but I get the same weird loop issue as before
04:20 PM Tom_L: maybe something else is wrong
04:20 PM Centreline: lots of USERMOT: ERROR: command timeouts, I'll look though my ini
04:21 PM * jthornton is just now eating lunch... spent the day trying to get a plc and camera to talk
04:22 PM Tom_L: did they finally learn to get along?
04:22 PM jthornton: almost it still has one glitch I'll work on that Monday
04:22 PM Centreline: I think I see why, I'm or2'ing somethng that's already a or2...
05:23 PM jesseg: hahaha. I saw a derelict welder in a friend's back yard. I asked him if I could have it, he said yes. Just went and gave it a closer look. It *was* a Bumblebee 300 amp DC 30phase Arcair unit. Unfortnately somebody went after it with a sawsall for the copper and cut every single winding except perhaps the primaries on the 3 phase isolation transformers LOL
05:23 PM XXCoder: doh
05:24 PM XXCoder: repairable?
05:24 PM jesseg: I'd have to re-wind all the transformers
05:24 PM XXCoder: probabky not worth money
05:24 PM XXCoder: for repairs
05:24 PM jesseg: yeah but I'm still taking it - it's got a nice solidly built steel undercarriage with wheels and a wagon pull handle
05:24 PM jesseg: so it'll make a nice base for something else
05:24 PM XXCoder: that sounds good for setuop for something lse
05:25 PM jesseg: plus it's got some nice hefty transformer cores I can wind to do whatever I want :P
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: they rip up anything for copper
05:26 PM jesseg: no kidding
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: I had e friend that had the AC unit stolen off their roof just for the coils
05:27 PM XXCoder: I remember reading about guy chipping major power center stuff for copper
05:27 PM XXCoder: those equipment was hundred thousand each
05:27 PM CaptHindsight: that 300KV will get you
05:27 PM XXCoder: guy probably got $200 in copper
05:27 PM XXCoder: it was inactive that time
05:27 PM XXCoder: or he'd have pretty bad case of dead
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: copper wire prices are like gas prices
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: immediately go up, but takes weeks to drop when the market goes down
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: real dead
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: have any you opened a bank account lately?
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: talk about being treated with suspicion
05:29 PM XXCoder: my credit union account is 20 years old
05:29 PM XXCoder: fuck banks
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, I have old ones from the 70's 80's
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: I felt like was in a line in some scene from idiocracy
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: my questions all raised eyebrows
05:30 PM XXCoder: ironic that people dealing with money is pretty badly paid
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: i should have started with " I am not a terrorist or wish to do any money laundering"
05:30 PM XXCoder: cu is better on paying people but not all that much better
05:32 PM _unreal_: sup
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: "they don't use any paperwork, they just use a terminal" as she points to the CC machine as though I have never seen a computer before
05:33 PM XXCoder: lol
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: ah oh so you stopped using papyrus and stones as bank records?!
05:33 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, I have some shocoking news for you... your on a computer right now !!
05:33 PM _unreal_: ;)
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: nah
05:33 PM XXCoder: oh wait im using a pc??
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: don't mess with me
05:33 PM XXCoder: linux even??
05:33 PM XXCoder: ;)
05:34 PM _unreal_: revelation right?
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: they said they were open tomorrow from 9 until 3
05:34 PM XXCoder: its bit sad but sometimes people just assume deaf dont know anything too
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: so I asked to make an appointment for the latest time tomorrow
05:34 PM XXCoder: one time I was using pc, and guy was writing something to say to me
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: she said "we are open until 3"
05:35 PM XXCoder: it was instructions for something I already did
05:35 PM _unreal_: so I'm locked in $300 annual for a $530 normal annual subscritpion
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: so I asked when is the latest appoint they have
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: they said "how about 9:30?"
05:35 PM XXCoder: we got along well afterwards but it wasnt great start lol
05:35 PM _unreal_: sigh... looks like I'm going to have to order an other memory chip
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: I said "9:30 is the latest?" oh how is 1:45
05:36 PM XXCoder: your 4 gb stick didnt work out?
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: how do they count money?
05:36 PM _unreal_: this new i5 computer has 8gb ram but a single stick
05:36 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, that 775 socket PC will NOT read that memory I dont know why
05:36 PM XXCoder: so it dont change with swapping sticks as well as various arragements
05:43 PM Centreline_ is now known as Centreline
05:49 PM Deejay: gn8
05:50 PM Tom_L: l8r
05:51 PM Tom_L: freecad is lacking in _so_ many ways but it is leaps better than it was
05:53 PM jthornton: yea, trying to figure out how to put a plane on an arc and not doing well
05:54 PM XXCoder: tom yeah it used to crash when you looked at it sternly
05:54 PM XXCoder: jt theres no way to sketch on curved stuff so far I know
05:58 PM jthornton: just figured it out
05:59 PM XXCoder: whats you do
06:00 PM jthornton: yep just put a hole through a curved surface
06:00 PM XXCoder: my method was nasty hack
06:00 PM jthornton: kinda hard to explain by typing better to show in the next tutorial
06:00 PM XXCoder: please do make tutorial on boring on curved surface!
06:01 PM jthornton: it's fairly straight forward once you understand how freecad works
06:02 PM XXCoder: when Iw as trying to learn, 0.17 was beta and tutorials sucked
06:02 PM XXCoder: many was at 0.14 version which wasnt same
06:04 PM _unreal_: jthornton,
06:04 PM _unreal_: plane on an arch?
06:04 PM jthornton: aye a plane on a surface that is curved
06:04 PM _unreal_: :)
06:07 PM _unreal_: memories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8gqgybDLD8
06:07 PM jthornton: and I just figured out why the cognex camera did not clear the result ready bit for the next image...
06:08 PM XXCoder: jt its not at all simple to me, hence request for tutorial :)
06:08 PM _unreal_: cognex? quadcopter stuff/
06:08 PM _unreal_: ?
06:08 PM XXCoder: your videops is very to the point and clear
06:08 PM _unreal_: lol I have not watched your video so it has not done shit for me
06:08 PM _unreal_: :)
06:08 PM Centreline: how can I tell a parport pin what state to be in at bootup, both before the os loads, and as linux boots...
06:09 PM * _unreal_ grabs an other yuengling
06:09 PM Centreline: because the two are different...
06:09 PM _unreal_: Centreline, per OS you cant
06:09 PM _unreal_: pre
06:09 PM Centreline: Its triggering the floor relay before the os boots, I can imagine that being messy
06:09 PM Centreline: flood even
06:09 PM _unreal_: Centreline, if your using PAR port then you need to use a charge pump
06:10 PM _unreal_: or a latching system
06:10 PM Centreline: a charge pump? I need to read up more I think
06:10 PM _unreal_: in other words You HAVE to disable your cnc hardware
06:11 PM _unreal_: till the "stable" control software is started and ready
06:11 PM _unreal_: a charge pump is a softwar/hardware setup that can be done with a PIC/ARDUINO controller or a hardware charge pump controller
06:12 PM _unreal_: more or less the you pick a par port pin to be the charge pump controller and it MUST produce a 12khz or something like that SIGNAL and untill the chargepump controller sees that signal . everything IS DISABLED ESTOPED etc...
06:12 PM Centreline: so physically hardware wise a arduino has to lock out everything until the chargepump waveform is seen
06:13 PM _unreal_: right. which is just tied into the HARDWARE level estop
06:13 PM _unreal_: when the computer is booting you have zero control over the state of the par port
06:13 PM Centreline: can the pin not be forced into a known state with a resistor until its controlled properly?
06:14 PM CaptHindsight: Centreline: depends on the LPT port design
06:14 PM _unreal_: not likely
06:15 PM CaptHindsight: but during boot it could still change states on you
06:15 PM _unreal_: likevinyl, CaptHindsight said
06:15 PM Centreline: they are startech's... not that probably means much
06:15 PM _unreal_: I dont know of ANY pc's that have control of parport during boot
06:15 PM _unreal_: Centreline, the other option is to use a contoller like the MESA controllers
06:16 PM _unreal_: At the end of the say there is always a catch
06:16 PM Tom_L: jthornton, you mean a plane intersecting a curved surface?
06:16 PM Tom_L: a plane by definition is flat
06:16 PM CaptHindsight: Centreline: are you using LinuxCNC with the LPT port?
06:17 PM Centreline: next machine I will probably be highly tempted by a mesa, but the thought of rewiring this completely means a lot of downtime
06:17 PM Centreline: I'm using linuxcnc with two startech pci parallel ports yes
06:17 PM _unreal_: heh
06:17 PM CaptHindsight: the type of pins (IN vs OUT) is not defined until the config is loaded
06:17 PM _unreal_: Centreline, ya I'm bilding a system and am going to go parport
06:17 PM Centreline: I built this years ago, just adding bells and whistles (like the flood coolant)
06:18 PM CaptHindsight: why E-stop is enabled until you disable it manually
06:18 PM Tom_L: jthornton, you could draw the plane above the surface and project the geometry to it with an extrude
06:18 PM Tom_L: or something
06:18 PM CaptHindsight: Centreline: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/parallel-port.html
06:18 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, that requires manual labor
06:19 PM CaptHindsight: Centreline: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/hal_parallel_port.html
06:20 PM Centreline: sounds like a arduino until the chargepump waveform appears...
06:20 PM CaptHindsight: Centreline: so it should not matter what the LPT ports are doing since E-stop should over-riding anything else the system is doing
06:20 PM CaptHindsight: should be
06:21 PM Centreline: the problem is the estop does not control the relay for the suds pump
06:21 PM Centreline: it only controls axes and movement
06:21 PM _unreal_: then you have a burning platform Centreline
06:22 PM CaptHindsight: why one might see how the E-stop is so important
06:22 PM Centreline: estop also doesnt shut the case fans off, but I have a big red button on the wall behind me that cuts all the 3phase to the shop
06:22 PM _unreal_: heh
06:22 PM CaptHindsight: fans left on are likely safe
06:22 PM _unreal_: Centreline, I designed a WTF...... omg my daughter just ripped one
06:22 PM _unreal_: lOL OUCHH.... DADDY that hurt.
06:23 PM _unreal_: O...m....g.... my daughter farted so hard/loud
06:24 PM Centreline: I supposed I could drive the 5v on the external relay board from parport 0 breakout board with the estop connected to it
06:25 PM Centreline: but the relay pins are on parport1 bob, since bob0 is dedicated to axes etc... and I really dont think switching bits on bob1 to something powered from bob0 is going to be a great idea...
06:25 PM _unreal_: Centreline, I designed a controller board that uses an arduino attiny. IT monitors for a freq. the case fan speed, all estop buttons and voltage inputs. if ANYTHING is wrong it holds estop hard
06:27 PM _unreal_: and now my daughter went into the bathroom
06:27 PM _unreal_: always a good sign
06:29 PM Centreline: I need to go think about how estop can be wired to cut power to this relay board before anything is in a known state...
06:31 PM jthornton: Tom_L, a plane tangent to a curved surface
06:32 PM * XXCoder gets on knees and begs
06:32 PM XXCoder: tutorial?
06:32 PM Centreline: or just remember to turn the physical tap off on the coolant output before the machine starts to boot...
06:32 PM Centreline: fudge city...
06:35 PM CaptHindsight: think about changing polarity of the signals active high vs active low
06:35 PM CaptHindsight: active low for e-stop will be active if stopped or if a wire breaks
06:35 PM XXCoder: that is better way yeah
06:36 PM XXCoder: if active high, its not great to find out that estop button have broken wire
06:37 PM CaptHindsight: i don't have his wiring diagram so I don't know what all the issues are
06:38 PM Centreline: the e-stop is wired nc, so if a wire breaks it goes e-stop
06:38 PM Centreline: the issue is the 5v rail that powers the relay board is independant to the bob 5v rail connected to the estop circuit
06:38 PM _unreal_: Centreline, I would strongly suggest going witha controller
06:39 PM _unreal_: not hard to setup a chargepump
06:39 PM _unreal_: if I'm counting it right your talking less then 16 lines of code for an ATTINY
06:41 PM CaptHindsight: Centreline: what do you want the pump to do or the other relay board outside of the E-stop circuit?
06:41 PM Centreline: I think the issue there is I'm impatient and don't have a spare attiny, but I do have a uno or a mega spare...
06:41 PM Centreline: I want the power for the relay board to not be active until the machine has control of the parport pins
06:41 PM CaptHindsight: and rewiring is not an option?
06:41 PM Centreline: so if I can pass that 5v line through a relay controlled from the estop, same thing
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: yes
06:42 PM _unreal_: Centreline, I'm giving you an EXAMPLE
06:42 PM Centreline: limited rewiring is always a option, I'm just trying to avoid ripping out two breakout boards and putting a mesa etc in
06:42 PM _unreal_: what you choose is your choice
06:42 PM _unreal_: but an 8pin attiny would be an easy way to give your self a TTL logic conrolled charge pump
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: many unknowns
06:43 PM _unreal_: Centreline, My PCB I designed has two and gate chips on it.
06:44 PM _unreal_: so I can put something like 6 inputs. and if EVERY input is NOT in the correct state ESTOP is not freed
06:44 PM _unreal_: free'ed
06:44 PM CaptHindsight: when bench testing small machines my e-stop is the power cord
06:44 PM _unreal_: ^^
06:44 PM _unreal_: also known as failsafe
06:45 PM CaptHindsight: if the power supply has big caps that might be slow though
06:45 PM Centreline: this is a bridgeport interact, the failsafe is the big red button behind me as I run outside if the estop doesnt halt it
06:45 PM CaptHindsight: "run away!"
06:45 PM Centreline: seriously, that flood relay board is the only thing that e-stop doesn't stop
06:45 PM _unreal_: run forest
06:45 PM Centreline: I even have a braking resistor on the spindle vfd
06:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FPELc1wEvk
06:46 PM _unreal_: Centreline, then re-wire is control logic with a relay
06:46 PM _unreal_: if MAINS is off it cant enable regardless of the controller state
06:46 PM _unreal_: is=its
06:47 PM _unreal_: controller=parport
06:47 PM * _unreal_ needs more beer
06:47 PM Centreline: A relay to control power for a relay
06:48 PM Centreline: which relays a contactor, just for added recursion, I think I need more beer too
06:49 PM _unreal_: at least your talking sense now
06:49 PM _unreal_: LOL
06:49 PM _unreal_: yuengling golden pilsner
06:49 PM _unreal_: here
06:49 PM _unreal_: got to love florida beer
06:51 PM _unreal_: Centreline, I was thinking a small relay to control relay SIGNAL for the power relay
06:51 PM _unreal_: for your flood coolent system
06:55 PM _unreal_: oh I missed my cute, CaptHindsight dont run away come back... come back.....
06:58 PM skunkworks: https://youtu.be/llwq5QKDgWo
07:02 PM Centreline: hmm I just found a terminal marked "relay" on bob1, not used, connectd to a actual relay mounted on the board itself. So I powered it up with a beeper across the terminals, and it does the same as my current setup, ie goes closed until the card is booted...
07:02 PM Centreline: so charge pump it is, or some rewiring...
07:03 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, I've been on that right
07:03 PM _unreal_: ride
07:03 PM _unreal_: in the youtube video
07:04 PM _unreal_: Centreline, charge pump and rewired
07:04 PM _unreal_: you have NO choice
07:04 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, ?
07:08 PM Centreline: so my e-stop is wired nc, I can just break into the wires and put that via a coil of a 5v relay board, that interrupts the 5v to the main coolant relay board. Then when I start it up with e-stop pressed, it wont fire until I pull one of the estop's out...
07:08 PM * _unreal_ PALM TO FACE that still leaves human error
07:09 PM _unreal_: !!! or are yo inhuman?
07:09 PM Centreline: it does, but said human's total sum of injury will be to get splashed with stinky coolant when he forgets , to help train him to remember
07:09 PM XXCoder: better snort coolant than learn how to tie shoes with fewer fingers
07:10 PM Centreline: part of me just wants to put a delay circuit in the 5v supply to the relay so it doensn't fire until the machine's been on for long enough to get the port pin in a known state... :D
07:13 PM Centreline: wiring it via estop would also cover if it has a coolant pump fire, the e-stop would throw the contactor power out to it.
07:13 PM Centreline: not that I've ever had a 3 phase suds pump flame out...
07:14 PM XXCoder: or second init power switch
07:14 PM XXCoder: first to turn on computer and system, then second one for stuff that needs system already on to avoid issues
07:15 PM XXCoder: though you would need to set system where it wont run unless both switches is onb
07:15 PM XXCoder: making second switch only powered when first is on is dead easy
07:15 PM Centreline: machine start should power the coolant relay board, yep I agree
07:16 PM Centreline: since it already has this system and second stage when it boots
07:16 PM XXCoder: if you make second one soft switch, it would default to off when first switch is switched off?
07:16 PM XXCoder: even better, it can be set so it cant be even turned on till system is ready
07:17 PM Centreline: no the issue is the pin flops state between the machine first powering, and the machine first booting linux (not even starting linuxcnc), so anything that uses the pin to switch state potentially has the same issue
07:18 PM XXCoder: yeah what im saying is set system so parts that have issues like that is switched on seperately
07:18 PM XXCoder: so nothing sprays or whatever
07:21 PM Centreline: I just need to tap into the enable pin for the stepper wiring, and power a relay from that. It already is 0v until you have the machine out of e-stop & press machine start also
07:21 PM XXCoder: thats good
07:22 PM Centreline: though I hear the steppers thunk during the boot process too, so I need to check its not already happening there...
07:22 PM Centreline: but not before linux starts to boot...
07:25 PM Centreline: I'm just going to use a mesa for the next conversion :)
07:26 PM Centreline: I have to work out how to skate a 4t vmc onto a recovery truck, then if that one works when we get it back I can pull this machine apart and rid it of the chinese bob's and do it properly
07:27 PM Centreline: Time has moved on, a lot
07:36 PM skunkworks: You need some sort of charge pump (or mesa hardware) so that i/o isn't active until linuxcnc says so
07:40 PM Centreline: the root problem is that the e-stop system doesn't cut power to various devices, its just a button connected to the bob...
07:41 PM Centreline: it should throw out a contactor for the main psu that runs everything except the pc...
07:44 PM Centreline: I need to think about rewiring the e-stop I think, because the clunk from the steppers as it boots means the drivers are enabled at some point in the boot process...
07:44 PM Centreline: ok, nearly 1am, time to knock it on the head, gnite all
07:47 PM andypugh: I think I need some better buttons on my lathe. The red stop/abort one has a loose bezel and does not always work.
07:48 PM andypugh: The mill uses arcade buttons, and they have been great
07:49 PM andypugh: I need three buttons, NO, illuminated. And would like to spend < £15 each.
07:50 PM andypugh: But all I seem to find is really cheap stuff at <£2 or industrial stuff at £60 for the button, £40 for the switch, £20 for the LED…
07:50 PM andypugh: (And that assumes you have the data sheets to get the _right_ switch, the _right_ LED etc)
08:01 PM _unreal_: 1am heh must be a uk'er
08:04 PM andypugh: That’s my guess. There were other clues.
08:07 PM _unreal_: :) myd aughter has a playdayte tomorrow
08:07 PM _unreal_: and the mother of her friend is clearly very lazy. answered 2 in 3 txt responces
08:08 PM _unreal_: sigh
08:09 PM _unreal_: sorry 2 in 5
08:34 PM taloot: hi
08:34 PM taloot: guys
08:34 PM taloot: unreal whats ur name
08:35 PM andypugh: It’s “unreal” isn’t it?
08:35 PM taloot: yes some women crazy... but u can bring filippina to take care of them
08:35 PM taloot: lol
08:35 PM taloot: nick namer
08:36 PM taloot: 400$ salary...
08:36 PM taloot: and she will be better than there mom
08:36 PM taloot: virtual wife
08:36 PM taloot: :)_
08:36 PM andypugh: Do you have a CNC question?
08:36 PM taloot: no
08:37 PM taloot: right now
08:38 PM norias: i'm messing with pythonocc
08:38 PM norias: which is open cascade for python
08:38 PM norias: using it to analyze step files
08:38 PM norias: wee
08:38 PM andypugh: To do what with them?
08:39 PM norias: start simple
08:39 PM norias: get the volume
08:39 PM norias: subtract that from bounding box volume
08:40 PM norias: i'm just going to build a bunch of "support" scripts for my cnc programming
08:41 PM taloot: how about python 3.0 porting
08:42 PM skunkworks: andypugh: something i didn't know was a thing... looks way better on an analog scope and was suprised it worked on the rigol
08:42 PM skunkworks: https://youtu.be/llwq5QKDgWo
08:42 PM skunkworks: went down that rabit hole... i
08:43 PM taloot: like magic
08:43 PM taloot: how much it costs u
08:44 PM skunkworks: I really like this one https://youtu.be/XziuEdpVUe0
08:44 PM skunkworks: the scope? $350ish
08:44 PM andypugh: My 1980 Tektronix doesn’t do that
08:45 PM skunkworks: doesnt do xy?
08:45 PM taloot: yours look more realstic
08:45 PM skunkworks: our 80's vintage B&k does it.
08:47 PM andypugh: I wonder if it is possible to listen to the noise and draw the Lissajous patttern? I suspect it might be, with practice.
08:51 PM taloot: S-curve... why linuxcnc not support it
08:52 PM taloot: marlin and gbrl. getting bigger and better
08:52 PM skunkworks: because it is hard.
08:53 PM taloot: but you can check how did they make it
08:53 PM taloot: in those systems
08:53 PM taloot: my delta driver have this option
08:54 PM andypugh: 1) It’t not that much of a win except on very high accelleration machines
08:54 PM taloot: for laser machines
08:54 PM taloot: Fiber
08:55 PM andypugh: 2) it’s hard to maintain positional accuracy whilst also allowing adaptive feed or overrides.
08:55 PM taloot: all profassional drivers support it.. so no need for it
08:55 PM taloot: for servo
08:55 PM taloot: but you can look how did they make it in GBRl
08:56 PM skunkworks: 2a spindle synced motion
08:57 PM andypugh: GRBL is solving a rather simpler puzzle.
08:57 PM skunkworks: lots of stuff in linuxcnc that grbl doesnt worry about. like path following.
08:57 PM andypugh: There has been some work done on finite jerk, it would be nice to have.
08:59 PM andypugh: But, as skunkworks says, guaranteeing path following within specified limits, and accceleration / volocity constraints, while also allowing speed overrides does make it tricky.
08:59 PM taloot: very tricky
09:02 PM skunkworks: I don't see it happening any time soon as I know how much work went into the current trajectory planner..
09:04 PM skunkworks: (and that was funded...)
09:05 PM andypugh: To explain, Tormach paid Rob to re-vamp the trajectory planner to have (much) more than 1 segment lookahead.
09:09 PM skunkworks: yes - IMHO he did a fantastic job.
09:10 PM skunkworks: (But yes - I would love to see a jerk limited planner...)
09:11 PM skunkworks: I don't know what I would like first... Jerk limited planner or a better way for kins to know actual machine constraints.
09:14 PM skunkworks: or 2.8 released? ;)
09:14 PM skunkworks: andypugh: I should be able to test the gpio on the rpi4 this weekend
09:15 PM andypugh: That would be handy.
09:17 PM skunkworks: you can never have too many messes... http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20191029_180210.jpg
09:17 PM skunkworks: the stmbl has been working really well.
09:19 PM skunkworks: it will stop the spindle on a dime
09:20 PM andypugh: Until you run out of dimes?
09:23 PM norias: kins?
09:23 PM andypugh: Kinematics
09:24 PM norias: how does it currently know about machine constraints?
09:26 PM andypugh: In a limited way
09:27 PM norias: im actually surprised it does at all
09:27 PM andypugh: It knows about axis limits, and joint limits in space, but currently doesn’t limit joint velocities, only axis velocities.
09:28 PM andypugh: (And the axis geometric limits are a nine-dimensional box, whereas it woould be handy for some machines to be a bit more nuanced.
09:31 PM andypugh: But, it’s late
09:31 PM skunkworks: Heh - night!
09:31 PM norias: sounds like i need to hit the books again
09:39 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: how much snow did you get yesterday?
09:48 PM Elmo40: CaptHindsight, from reading up i noticed you posted info on an Intel i3. They are good with lcnc?
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: [Emc-developers] RTAI new libm support is now complete! (Based off of musl) https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/36798404/
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: Elmo40: follow the links and the pics :)
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: i3 quadcore 3GHz, lateny < 3uS ... this is 1/10th of the best value that RT-PREEMPT could do!
10:02 PM Elmo40: the prefered method is still a nice board with par port? is there really any other way?
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/37106-testers-needed-for-new-rtai-packages?start=10
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: is up to you
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: I use LPT and Mesa with ethernet or PCIe
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: some systems have both :)
10:05 PM taloot: skunkworks
10:05 PM taloot: whats your thoughts about rpi4
10:06 PM taloot: whats the kernel version
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: seems to work as long as you don't require stable 4K video
10:06 PM taloot: just for linuxcnc
10:06 PM taloot: and teamviewer
10:07 PM CaptHindsight: somebody needs to make a clean uboot for the Rpi4 with all the speed stepping and power management killed
10:07 PM taloot: whats the suggeted ram
10:07 PM CaptHindsight: then compile a kernel with all power management and speed stepping not included
10:07 PM CaptHindsight: then patch with preempt_rt
10:07 PM taloot: okey this is easy
10:08 PM taloot: but whats the standard kernel
10:08 PM taloot: for it
10:08 PM taloot: i guess 5
10:08 PM CaptHindsight: whatever is in raspian?
10:08 PM taloot: buster as defailt
10:08 PM CaptHindsight: what is that shipped with?
10:08 PM taloot: default
10:09 PM taloot: i will drop arm and go for x86
10:09 PM taloot: performance all complian about it
10:10 PM taloot: also heat generted from usb make its throttle
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: it might be useful with a nice heat spreader
10:11 PM taloot: they fix the heat problem
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: we stopped messing with it when 4K was to much for it at room temp
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: the pi3 or the pi4?
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: we were using the pi4 at 4K and it always throttled down after a few seconds
10:12 PM taloot: https://hackaday.com/2019/10/30/rpi4-now-overclocked-net-booted-and-power-sipping/
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: i didn't have time to build a proper enclosure and heat manager
10:12 PM taloot: try this fix
10:12 PM taloot: even ppl start overlocking it
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: you don;'t want any speed stepping going on with real time
10:13 PM CaptHindsight: it should not even be in the kernel or bootloader
10:13 PM CaptHindsight: bootloader/init
10:13 PM taloot: rk3399
10:14 PM taloot: did u play with it
10:14 PM taloot: asus i think ,, thinker.
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: i stopped messing with the ARM boards
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: until I have time for what I mentioned above
10:15 PM taloot: thats same for me
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: then it requires using the new GPU drivers
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: Rpi has them going for its hardware
10:15 PM Elmo40: CaptHindsight, ya, looks horrible (the latency testing for the i3)
10:15 PM taloot: everytime i want to use arm,.. i found problem
10:16 PM Elmo40: < 3us. Ugh. Who has that kind of time to wait?
10:16 PM Elmo40: ;-)
10:16 PM taloot: btw
10:17 PM taloot: amlogic they have 12nm soc
10:17 PM taloot: those are 28nm
10:17 PM taloot: s922x
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: have to run, bbl
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: Elmo40: he has to fix the Intel graphics issue
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: its currently limited to 1024 x 768
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: he probably left out some Intel specific gpu thing
10:19 PM skunkworks: taloot: I am not comfortable saying the rp4 works flawlessly...
10:19 PM taloot: all say same
10:19 PM taloot: siill weak
10:19 PM taloot: compare to x86
10:19 PM skunkworks: I have been playing with it for a month or more. Just recently I have been getting good realtime performance.
10:20 PM skunkworks: Some of them where my issues - some where the rpi.
10:20 PM CaptHindsight: somebody needs to make a clean uboot for the Rpi4 with all the speed stepping and power management killed
10:20 PM taloot: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-h2/
10:20 PM CaptHindsight: then compile a kernel with all power management and speed stepping not included
10:20 PM taloot: i willl go for intel
10:20 PM CaptHindsight: ARM still needs some work for real time
10:21 PM CaptHindsight: and GPU accel
10:21 PM taloot: till those arm mature enought
10:21 PM skunkworks: I have had way way way better luck with intel/amd
10:21 PM taloot: intel they make ARM+FPGA soc
10:21 PM Elmo40: what if i use nvidia card?
10:21 PM taloot: 10nm
10:21 PM skunkworks: Its performance is ok. it is quite responsive. (atleast at 1080..)
10:22 PM Elmo40: taloot, a real intel computer or the asus board?
10:22 PM taloot: but the snapdragon 855
10:22 PM taloot: u cant compare it to RPI4
10:22 PM taloot: in performancer
10:23 PM taloot: those boards.. using utdated chips
10:23 PM taloot: outdated
10:23 PM Elmo40: CaptHindsight, i have an i5 just lying around. any one test that chip? uses nVidia 8600 card, i believe.
10:23 PM taloot: u dont have built in intel
10:24 PM taloot: i dont have problems with it
10:36 PM drdoc: wooo!
10:38 PM drdoc: one of my friends just offered me a 1st-gen i5 to play with. It has a native parallel port & 8gb memory
10:39 PM drdoc: if it will even much this Q2D's latency it's a big win - half the power budget and a smaller footprint
10:40 PM Tom_L: https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,851870
10:41 PM Tom_L: for all you low budget builders
10:44 PM drdoc: t
10:45 PM drdoc: that's worth watching
10:47 PM drdoc: but honestly, even on a 3d printer, rigidity is more important than weight. Every filament 8
10:48 PM drdoc: I use prints at < 50mm/s, so extremely light weight construction doesn't help