#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 19 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:39 AM Deejay: moin
12:51 AM pink_vampire: hi
12:53 AM XXCoder: yo
12:54 AM pink_vampire: I just finished the design PCB in KiCad
12:54 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/y9BDSuX.png
12:54 AM XXCoder: nice
12:54 AM pink_vampire: the render and the 3d model was done in KiCad!
12:56 AM pink_vampire: now I'm trying to learn how to use the new flatcam
12:56 AM XXCoder: is that open source or free?
12:56 AM XXCoder: flatcam
12:57 AM pink_vampire: free and open source and work very good!
12:57 AM pink_vampire: http://flatcam.org/
12:57 AM XXCoder: nice
12:58 AM XXCoder: its great for cnc routers, laser and waterjet I guess
12:58 AM XXCoder: or maybe its pcb only
12:58 AM pink_vampire: you can do much more with the new version
12:58 AM pink_vampire: but it is only 2d
01:06 AM XXCoder: yeah flat did impile that :)
01:49 AM Elmo40: LoL... FLATcam is 'only' 2D
01:50 AM Elmo40: pink_vampire, is that a stm32 on there?
01:50 AM pink_vampire: Arduino nano
01:52 AM Elmo40: cool
01:52 AM Elmo40: what is it for?
01:53 AM pink_vampire: just something to make me learn kicad
01:54 AM pink_vampire: do you know how can I center the layout according to the coordinate system?
01:54 AM Elmo40: into flatcam?
01:55 AM pink_vampire: I did the design in some random spot in kicad
01:55 AM pink_vampire: now when I try to open the gerber files in flat cam it is also in random spot
02:07 AM Elmo40: never used it, sorry. but there should be a way to reset it in kicad
02:15 AM pink_vampire: why the 3d export is don't show the traces??
02:16 AM pink_vampire: it is only show the components
03:10 AM Tom_L: morning
03:13 AM pink_vampire: hi Tom_L
03:13 AM Tom_L: hi
03:17 AM pink_vampire: flat cam just crash!
04:57 AM jthornton: morning
04:58 AM TurBoss: good morning
05:00 AM jthornton: what's up today
05:09 AM XXCoder: me
05:09 AM XXCoder: you too apparently
05:09 AM XXCoder: oh yeah jt you remember me talking about homgious cnc machine at work?
05:09 AM jthornton: yea
05:10 AM XXCoder: its still not working
05:10 AM XXCoder: its new, bit made in 2014
05:10 AM XXCoder: 5 years of idle have given it some issues, spindle wouldnt worjk
05:10 AM XXCoder: 4th axis seem to refuse to work
05:10 AM jthornton: rut row
05:11 AM XXCoder: yeah. the other used doosan we got from utah from collipsed subdivision, they finally moved it into place and started maintance in it
05:11 AM XXCoder: and opened rear panel to find... HUGE pile of chips
05:11 AM XXCoder: clogging ballscrews, servo, sensors etc'
05:12 AM jthornton: damn
05:12 AM XXCoder: I used to wonder why utah one closed down. I now wonder how the heck they lasted so long
05:13 AM XXCoder: theres been so many changes lately. new fadal have been moved to make room for that doosan, and soon ps95 will be slightly moved and angle changed to make "square" of 4 cnc machines
05:13 AM jthornton: trying to design a storage rack for odd bits of wood and plywood so I don't have a whole wall with wood leaned up against it
05:13 AM XXCoder: old fadal, after 2 years on sale, finally sold and moved out
05:14 AM XXCoder: thats good idea, some arms on wall wood and its nice
05:14 AM XXCoder: and some "shelves" for wider and longer ones
05:14 AM _unreal_: yall are up early ;) I couldnt sleep
05:14 AM _unreal_: 6am right now
05:15 AM _unreal_: had some weird ass dream
05:15 AM XXCoder: i normally sleep in a hour or so but not this time, i need to drop off my brother
05:15 AM jthornton: I built a pallet out of 2x6's with 4x4 runners
05:15 AM XXCoder: i dont want to know about your ass dream
05:15 AM XXCoder: let alone weird one
05:15 AM jthornton: it's 48" x 50"
05:15 AM jthornton: 5am here
05:15 AM XXCoder: 3 am here
05:15 AM _unreal_: XXCoder, trust me it was NOT a fine ass dream...
05:15 AM XXCoder: lol
05:16 AM _unreal_: long story short I was sleeping on my hand apparently and dreaming I was being bitten by some weird ass dreamed up bug.
05:16 AM _unreal_: heh
05:17 AM _unreal_: DAMN this 22" monitor is bright
05:18 AM _unreal_: So I have some 256PPR enoders
05:18 AM _unreal_: encoders
05:18 AM _unreal_: I'm thinking about swtiching to a mesa control rather then par port.
05:54 AM gregcnc: it appears as though it's not good to drop motor rotors when you service them
05:56 AM jthornton: it's also not good to drop a hard drive on concrete...
05:57 AM XXCoder: moderate speed contact with surface does very little good for most objects.
05:58 AM gregcnc: the shaft indicated perfect, but there is no way it vibrated this much before
06:00 AM gregcnc: gonna be an expensive mistake
06:01 AM XXCoder: :( is there dent somewhere?
06:01 AM gregcnc: nothing obvious
06:02 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c80mMzDknTI
06:15 AM XXCoder: oh yeah
06:15 AM XXCoder: did you see that video
06:32 AM jthornton: yea, not impressed with cartoons
06:33 AM XXCoder: heh yea though I liked that one because its very clear on why rayson method of making panels is revolutary
06:47 AM _unreal_: dont knwo what I want to do
06:53 AM * jthornton needs to find some better props for the s500
06:53 AM jthornton: and mount the vtx antenna...
08:57 AM _unreal_: ! at first I thought I was netsplit
09:35 AM _unreal_: any one live?
09:44 AM Deejay: hey
09:46 AM _unreal_: hi
09:46 AM _unreal_: WHOLY shit he talks
09:52 AM * Deejay stares at _unreal_
10:03 AM _unreal_: heh
10:03 AM _unreal_: I'm trying to figure out what direction I should go
10:03 AM _unreal_: I'm building a big strong CNC
10:03 AM _unreal_: I'm thinking about using a single motor for the MAJOR Y axis
10:04 AM _unreal_: dual lead screw
10:04 AM _unreal_: toying with the idea of gear reducing with toothed timing belts
10:04 AM _unreal_: or using two motors one for each still geard down
10:04 AM _unreal_: I have 4 460oz/in motors
10:05 AM _unreal_: Deejay, still live?
10:05 AM * Deejay has no idea ;)
10:06 AM Deejay: i have what you described. two lead screws, one stepper motor. toothed belt
10:06 AM Deejay: for me, it works fine
10:06 AM Deejay: for Y axis
10:07 AM XXCoder: whats wrong with just one ballscrew and 2 rail of some kind?
10:07 AM _unreal_: big VERY WIDE machine
10:07 AM _unreal_: 34" wide
10:07 AM _unreal_: at least
10:07 AM XXCoder: thats all
10:07 AM _unreal_: a picture would help
10:07 AM _unreal_: one sec
10:08 AM XXCoder: make sure to have approte thickness ballscrew of you will have some fun ballscrew whupping
10:08 AM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1n8QM01eo2tG-qUacvH3c_0KZn2RtR0VM
10:09 AM _unreal_: simple cad drawing but this is the basic idea https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ab3-S2U04vQBSnzA9WCDdCD0gvrMmDLJ
10:10 AM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M0AEWYBorOkzJdJ7BxX0mm7LE6aypqcy
10:10 AM * Deejay falls into sleep again ;)
10:10 AM _unreal_: I cant put a single ballscrew
10:10 AM _unreal_: I have a solid frame
10:10 AM _unreal_: I'm putting large square stock on the short sides of this base frame
10:11 AM _unreal_: then mounting the liner rails onto that. the X axis will bridge across the longest part of the frame
10:12 AM _unreal_: the base its self is like 90 lbs
10:12 AM _unreal_: but its SOLID
10:15 AM _unreal_: XXCoder, I'm not sure if my motors are strong enough to go with a single motor and geared with the pullys or if Id be better off with dual motors
10:15 AM _unreal_: My goal is to be ablet o cut aluminum with this machine
10:16 AM _unreal_: ?
10:16 AM XXCoder: good question
10:16 AM _unreal_: the gears I have are big
10:16 AM XXCoder: can always go larger but I dont know
10:16 AM _unreal_: so figure 12 tooth to I think they are 48 tooth
10:17 AM _unreal_: I'd have to look
10:21 AM _unreal_: yep I was right
10:22 AM _unreal_: 12 tooth small pullies for the motors and 48 tooth big solid aluminum pullies
10:30 AM _unreal_: ?
10:33 AM * JT-Shop checks all the batteries and noticed the tarot battery is 6S
10:35 AM _unreal_: ?
10:36 AM _unreal_: JT-Shop, ya my big quad is 6s
10:36 AM _unreal_: DUAL 6s
10:36 AM _unreal_: with independent battery monitors as well
10:36 AM _unreal_: That was a bit of a trick getting the telem back to the x9d
11:22 AM _unreal_: wow
11:22 AM _unreal_: figured someone would be talking
11:26 AM jthornton: well I think I understand what I was missing when trying to fly the s500 after flying the phantom I understand about satellites and the need to have enough
11:27 AM Tom_L: you run out of satellite?
11:27 AM jthornton: you mean my internet sat?
11:27 AM Tom_L: you mentioned the need to have enough
11:28 AM Tom_L: kinda figured you came up sort supply of em
11:28 AM jthornton: you need > 6 gps satellites to get a good lock
11:28 AM Tom_L: short*
11:28 AM jthornton: on the multirotor
11:29 AM _unreal_: jthornton, he's talking about GPS sats
11:29 AM * Tom_L thinks jthornton has gone to the birds
11:29 AM Tom_L: if he's not flyin em, he's playin with em
11:30 AM * jthornton has no clue what either one of you is talking about...
11:30 AM _unreal_: Tom_L, same with my quads got to have SAT lock before taking off or NOT return to home
11:30 AM _unreal_: not=npo
11:30 AM _unreal_: no
11:30 AM jthornton: lumenier and tattu are both good batteries?
11:30 AM _unreal_: less a question of MFG. and more a question of specs
11:31 AM _unreal_: its more important to have enough high draw ablity
11:32 AM _unreal_: or the C rating
11:33 AM _unreal_: you always want batteries rated for at LEAST 2x your full throttle draw minimum. better to be rated for much higher though. ON THE OTHER HAND. the higher the C rating the heaver the battery will be
11:34 AM jthornton: ok thanks
11:34 AM _unreal_: you can have a 12,000 mah battery 6s and only 10c. if your running a hex quad there is a very very high chance your exceeding the draw of the battery
11:34 AM jthornton: yea that makes sense, I think most of my big ones are 30-35c
11:34 AM _unreal_: sure the battery will have LOTS of power and be very lite for its size. but the battery will burn up in no time
11:35 AM _unreal_: I would check your over all draw
11:35 AM _unreal_: and rate for 4x to 8x
11:35 AM _unreal_: over
11:35 AM jthornton: I can do that when I get the eagle tree lcd screen
11:36 AM _unreal_: the C rating is more of an APROX. and always assume its not as high as it is listed
11:36 AM jthornton: ok
11:37 AM _unreal_: same with discharge. you always want to have your power down warning set .4v higher then suggested at least
11:37 AM _unreal_: because you can have BROWN outs if you pump the throttle
11:38 AM _unreal_: and dip below the "safe" low voltage level
11:38 AM _unreal_: in other words you always want to be LANDING around the time your low power warning is just starting
11:40 AM jthornton: I don't bump the throttle any more or fly full throttle...
11:40 AM jthornton: thanks for all the info
11:41 AM _unreal_: I'm not talking about HIGH throttle movemens FYI
11:41 AM jthornton: talking about the drone keeping station in the wind?
11:41 AM _unreal_: yep
11:41 AM _unreal_: because the battery PACK is make of multi cels
11:41 AM _unreal_: cells
11:42 AM _unreal_: any one of the cells can be far lower then the others at any given time. hence the need for balance chargers.
11:42 AM _unreal_: I use telem battery monitors that plug into the balance charge port and give feed back on all of the cells
11:42 AM _unreal_: I can tell if I have a CELL going low before others even though the overaall voltage is well with in the limits
11:43 AM jthornton: that's neat
11:43 AM _unreal_: "That" is what kills lipos real fast
11:43 AM _unreal_: FRSKY part as I reall
11:43 AM SpeedEvil: And too much love.
11:43 AM SpeedEvil: Battery managment (as opposed to cell managment) is real fun.
11:44 AM SpeedEvil: Especially when you get into regeneration.
11:45 AM SpeedEvil: Or fire.
01:06 PM _unreal_: one step closer to getting this new motor onto my current cnc machine
01:06 PM _unreal_: found my JST crimp kit finally
01:06 PM _unreal_: just got the wires on
01:07 PM _unreal_: how I just need to find my male JST kit. no idea where that damn thing has gotten off to. would like to make a JUMP conversion wire rather then have to make some tiny PCB thing just to adapter the wires
01:26 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: Was it you that built a rocket stove?
01:37 PM _unreal_: I heard it was an amazing lift off
01:47 PM jthornton: hmm the vtx is broken on the S500...
01:50 PM _unreal_: who needs video
02:15 PM Loetmichel: re from rewiring my sisters house... MAAN what a mess!... 1960ties german building. The Finery/plaster fell off the wall as sand. My old Ellectrican master always said: "cement is good for the skin!" (hint: it isnt) ;)
02:28 PM t4nk_freenode: what is Elephant man doing here?
02:28 PM t4nk_freenode: oh.. it's Loetmichel
02:28 PM Loetmichel: ?
02:29 PM t4nk_freenode: ;)
02:29 PM Loetmichel: elephant man???
02:29 PM t4nk_freenode: yeh, it's an enormous thinker ;)
02:29 PM t4nk_freenode: cement == grey
02:29 PM t4nk_freenode: on skin => resembles elephant skin color
02:30 PM t4nk_freenode: see?
02:30 PM t4nk_freenode: :b
02:34 PM * _unreal_ does not get it
02:35 PM * t4nk_freenode gets that easily
02:43 PM Loetmichel: ah, now i see
02:43 PM Loetmichel: as that finery was 99% sand and WAY not enough cement: no problem there ;)
02:48 PM miss0r: t4nk_freenode: It should, by now, come as no surprise that sarcasm does not translate well on IRC ;)
02:50 PM t4nk_freenode: I can always enjoy quietly though :b
02:51 PM t4nk_freenode: I was thinking about trying to cast concrete as a frame for a diy cnc, a while back
02:52 PM t4nk_freenode: but dunno how much it would weigh, or how strong it would be
02:53 PM Loetmichel: t4nk_freenode: there are some cast "epoxy concrete" machines built by hobbyists
02:53 PM Loetmichel: i wouldnt do cement concrete, it is always dusting off: death of your linear ways and ballscrews
02:54 PM t4nk_freenode: mmmm
02:54 PM Loetmichel: but epoxy concrete with enough reinforcement steel in it works pretty well and is even used by some professional/industrial machines
02:54 PM t4nk_freenode: that's probably a lot lighter
02:55 PM t4nk_freenode: I figured concrete would eliminate 'flex' really well
02:58 PM Loetmichel: it does
02:58 PM Loetmichel: regardless if cement or epoxy based
02:59 PM Loetmichel: it also isnt THAT heavy... (compared to an Cast iron frame that is)
03:01 PM _unreal_: papercrete uses epoxy/cement hybrid as I recall
03:01 PM _unreal_: being paper and cement
03:02 PM t4nk_freenode: I saw some youtube video of a guy making concrete flower pots, he set out to get it as light as possible. but it became too brittle
03:03 PM SpeedEvil: You can get a hell of a lot done structurally with concrete if you post-tension it.
03:04 PM SpeedEvil: 1" high tensile threaded rod will give you a lot of post-tensioning
03:04 PM t4nk_freenode: post-tensioning.. is another term for 'reinforcing'?
03:05 PM SpeedEvil: Ish.
03:05 PM SpeedEvil: If you just place reinforcement rod in the concrete and then let the concrete set around it, the concrete will not be very well reinforced and will still be prone to cracking under small tensile loads.
03:06 PM SpeedEvil: (for a given quantity of steel)
03:06 PM Loetmichel: its how "tension bridges" are made
03:06 PM SpeedEvil: If however you tension the steel so that it is halfway to yield, then all of the concrete is under lots of compression.
03:06 PM Loetmichel: they have cables in the lower beams of the concrete box "bridge" that are lose
03:06 PM Loetmichel: in pipes
03:07 PM Loetmichel: and will be tensioned AFTER the concrete box has set
03:07 PM SpeedEvil: And it can't really crack at all, even if you would look at the beam and think 'the bottom must be under lots of tension'
03:07 PM Loetmichel: so it is under preload
03:07 PM SpeedEvil: Because the bottom is under lots of tension compared to the top - but they are both under much much more.
03:08 PM SpeedEvil: Concrete is very, very weak in tension.
03:08 PM Loetmichel: in short: concrete is very good at coping with compression and VERY bad at copint with tension. Thats what the steel reinforcement is for
03:09 PM Loetmichel: and it works best if its already preloaded so it cant crack/microfracture until the steel is tensioned enough that it will hold
03:11 PM SpeedEvil: Non prestressed reinforcement 'works' - but it in many cases almost relies on the concrete cracking, which will cause moisture ingress and failure.
03:12 PM SpeedEvil: Or lots and lots of steel compared to stressed
03:14 PM t4nk_freenode: just saw some pictures of others making a 'concrete' frame
03:22 PM SpeedEvil: Having said the above, in many cases you can design a lightly loaded structure with lots of cross sectional area, and it will be much better in terms of rigidity than a more stressed structure simply as it's got more area.
03:23 PM SpeedEvil: It doesn't matter if the bed of a CNC machine cracks at 1 ton tooling force, not 30.
04:20 PM t4nk_freenode: *brr*, been watching some cnc video's... guys building them, with such precision. That is Not what I'm building ;)
04:21 PM Deejay: gn8
04:45 PM gloops: what are you making t4nk_freenode?
04:48 PM t4nk_freenode: I first built a mini cnc from dvd drive steppers, and now I'm looking to see what I can do with some dc motors from printers
04:50 PM gloops: is this like a curiousity or learning project? or do you actually want to use the machine for something?
04:51 PM t4nk_freenode: I have some test setup, motor driving a second shaft with a little belt, shaft driving a threaded rod, and the rod slides some tubing in and out
04:52 PM t4nk_freenode: well, both, I built the dvd cnc without using external components, just a pic and the internals
04:52 PM t4nk_freenode: but then I tried to attach a drill to the mini machine, and the 'results' made me really enthusiastic
04:53 PM gloops: excellent, those little moments of magic when it works..or nearly works
04:54 PM t4nk_freenode: so at this point I'm thinking that maybe I can make sth with a sloppy machine .. that is still way better than I could ever do by hand
04:54 PM gloops: i made my first router with bicycle chains and sprockets
04:54 PM t4nk_freenode: why not ;)
04:56 PM t4nk_freenode: though, I've come to realise, without trying, that the rotary encoders I have on the shafts.. will not cut it for me in this setup, I think I'll have to use linear encoder strips monitoring the actual movement
04:56 PM gloops: i was no way confident that i could build a useable cnc, but it worked, or at least many elements of it worked, just not accurate enough
04:56 PM t4nk_freenode: and that the threaded rods seem to work a bit irregularly
04:57 PM gloops: you can get those t8 screws and nuts on ebay very cheap
04:58 PM t4nk_freenode: yeh, and I'm hoping that I can be a bit more precise in my approach, meaning that I think I could perhaps control the machine in my own way and work around issues
04:59 PM t4nk_freenode: all I need is that fraction of a mm of material to get removed and I'm in, I reckon ;)
04:59 PM t4nk_freenode: material being soft, soft wood :)
04:59 PM t4nk_freenode: then make a mold and cast hard hard concrete
05:00 PM gloops: where does the concrete come in?
05:00 PM t4nk_freenode: buy some decent 'lead screws' and some good steppers
05:00 PM t4nk_freenode: and build a better machine
05:01 PM t4nk_freenode: (made partially of concrete)
05:01 PM gloops: ahh
05:01 PM t4nk_freenode: but that's thinking way ahead and way too optimistically
05:03 PM gloops: well, have seen some pretty good concrete machines, concrete has a lot of good qualities
05:25 PM _unreal_: %@#$%@#$ I have two keyboards in front of me and I keep messing up and hitting the worng one
05:26 PM _unreal_: one can always be way to optomistic
05:26 PM _unreal_: lol'
05:26 PM Tom_L: just 2?
05:26 PM _unreal_: yes just two keyboards in front
05:26 PM _unreal_: 3 mice though
05:27 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/scope/scope1.jpg
05:28 PM Tom_L: re'arranged a bit since then but i count 4
05:32 PM _unreal_: fuck me. brb have to boot into windows because I CANT find my damn files I HATE the onedrive windows bull shit
05:32 PM _unreal_: they hide all the files
06:07 PM jymmmm: Simple.... don't run the Windows. The most profitable virus ever!
06:10 PM t4nk_freenode: agreed; who on earth would want to run it
06:29 PM jymmmm: Just the sick twisted ones
06:32 PM _unreal_: sup
06:32 PM _unreal_: 90
06:32 PM _unreal_: worng keyboard
06:40 PM XXCoder: jymmmm: nah
06:42 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: No rocket stove huh? Somebody did
06:44 PM XXCoder: i dont mind trying build one but no
06:53 PM Tom_L: jym, i think it might have been Loetmichel
06:56 PM Tom_L: or gonzo_
06:56 PM Tom_L: looking thru my logs
07:26 PM jymmmm: Tom_L Methods?
07:28 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: I'm working on a "portable space heater" idea, using wood pellets if oyu care
08:37 PM jesseg: jymmmm, that's interesting. My brother and I once built a pellet stove, but it wasn't portable. We used an 18" long ship auger and a gear drive induction motor from a copier to feed the pellets.
08:38 PM jesseg: Used the self-igniting propane burner out of an RV propane fridge as an auto-lighter for the pellets
08:38 PM jesseg: and a small 110v induction squirrel cage fan to blow air on the fire.
08:38 PM jesseg: and I think there was a photosensor for sensing the flame too
08:38 PM jesseg: so it would add pellets when the flame started to dwindle.
08:39 PM jesseg: Anyway, he runs it on a thermostat - it starts itself up and runs itself then burns out when the thermostat shuts it off.
08:46 PM SpeedEvil: :)
08:49 PM jymmmm: jesseg: Eh, this is different. A fan to bring up combustion. Gravity fed. But using a tank filled with gravel for a thermal mass. and MAYBE a 4" aluminum dryer duct wrapped around the tank with a fan blowing in one end. Basically a glorified hair dryer. Then a SS chimney liner for the flue pipe
08:53 PM jymmmm: jesseg: The other thing is I want it to work when no power. 12V battery is fine
08:56 PM jesseg: yeah there's some interesting gravity fed designs out there now
08:57 PM jesseg: The tank filled with gravel doesn't sound highly portable, though...?
08:58 PM jesseg: or is the furnace stationary then a long 4" duct brings heat to where you are needing it?
09:00 PM jymmmm: I'm trying to find an old video, gimme a few...
09:01 PM ziper: I ended up not needing to cut down the tap
09:02 PM jymmmm: BAh, I cna't find the video
09:04 PM jymmmm: jesseg: Basically I'm using a spent 5gal propane tank (because I have some already), building a "rocket stove" withint it, filling the tank with gravel as thermal mass.
09:05 PM SpeedEvil: jymmmm: gravel is where? The heat leaks out the gravel sides?
09:05 PM jymmmm: jesseg: I'm just using what I have on hand, but if it works, then I can scale as needed.
09:05 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: The rocket stove (a big "J") will be built inside the propane tank, the gravel will be in the tank
09:06 PM SpeedEvil: Ah - so the combustion gasses pass through it.
09:06 PM jymmmm: No
09:06 PM jymmmm: The gasses will be completely seperated
09:06 PM SpeedEvil: Oh - right
09:07 PM jymmmm: Teh gravel will "insulate" the rocket stove", acting as a thermal mass to absorb as much heat as possible
09:07 PM jymmmm: IT's not perfect by any means, but ti's what I have on hand.
09:07 PM _unreal_: 2885
09:08 PM SpeedEvil: Can also use a couple of gravel beds alternating on input and output with combustion or intake through them, to act as recouperators.
09:08 PM _unreal_: your not google
09:08 PM SpeedEvil: That is significantly more complex though
09:08 PM SpeedEvil: Drop the air output temp to ~200C
09:09 PM jymmmm: But, if it half ass works, what I can do is get a 40gal hot water heater from the junk yard for $5, then have 2 or 3" exhaust pipe coiled (like a spring) placed inside the tank to give longer contact time with the gravel - basically absorbing even more heat before going out the flue pipe.
09:10 PM jymmmm: Heavy as hell, but self contained
09:11 PM jymmmm: and technically portable
09:12 PM jymmmm: I stlll get the updraft rise the rocket stove needs, and easy to clean
09:13 PM ziper: how is that a good idea
09:13 PM jymmmm: ziper: ???
09:13 PM ziper: wouldn't the gravel act as insulation
09:13 PM jthornton: you can cook a whole pig with hot rocks...
09:14 PM ziper: is it for cooking or heating?
09:14 PM jymmmm: The gravel would act as a thermal mass, making the rocket stove part work better for secondary combustion
09:14 PM jymmmm: heating
09:14 PM jesseg: just make sure to get all the propane out of the can before cutting into it or your rocket stove may launch prematurely
09:15 PM jymmmm: jesseg: How about 150,000 acre wildfire to burn it all out?
09:15 PM ziper: i dunno man I don't see how having thermal mass will help you
09:16 PM jymmmm: ziper: Because I need to capture as much heat as possible. instead of it all going out the flue pipe. This is NOT a rocket stove, just the principla of that to bring up the combustion.
09:17 PM jymmmm: If it helps, think pellet stove combined with rocket stove and a thermal mass.
09:17 PM SpeedEvil: I am amused that white flour costs me about twice per kilo of what dry wood delivery costs me.
09:18 PM jesseg: I made rocket fuel out of white flower and saltpeter
09:18 PM jesseg: I suppose that would burn fine in a rocket stove
09:18 PM SpeedEvil: White flour is 7.5p/kWh. If completely combusted.
09:18 PM SpeedEvil: This is cheaper than my electricity.
09:18 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: Try powdered coffee cream, that's REALLY explosive =)
09:19 PM SpeedEvil: yeah - I mean from a cost POV
09:19 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: geothermal?
09:19 PM Wolf__: where can I find a auto-feeding flower stove
09:20 PM jymmmm: Wolf__: Wally world, aisle 342
09:22 PM ziper: but your objective is to move heat from the combustion into the space to be heated, right?
09:23 PM ziper: why would thermal mass help with that?
09:23 PM jymmmm: ziper: 07:10:31 PM) Jymm: ziper: Because I need to capture as much heat as possible. instead of it all going out the flue pipe. This is NOT a rocket stove, just the principla of that to bring up the combustion.
09:24 PM ziper: if the inside wall of your flue is at, say, 1000 degrees, you would capture less heat from the combustion than if you had the inside wall at 500 degrees, as if you had a better conducting flue
09:24 PM ziper: jymmmm, repeating yourself doesnt mean you start to make sense
09:25 PM jymmmm: ziper: Then how would YOU capture heat ?
09:26 PM jymmmm: ... before it escaped outside?
09:26 PM ziper: by maximizing the surface area, and the conductivity of the container
09:28 PM jymmmm: ziper: Great, Are you willing to purchase all the materials I need for that? Cause like I said, with what I have on hand.
09:29 PM ziper: yeah, you could start by ditching the gravel, and getting a fan to circulate the hot air
09:30 PM jymmmm: Why ditch the gravel?
09:31 PM jymmmm: jthornton: And DAMN good meat doing that too - had it with beef, OMG
09:31 PM ziper: because it just slows down the conduction of heat into your space
09:31 PM ziper: unless, you have some need to only fire the stove every other hour
09:33 PM jymmmm: Question.... is salt corrosive to steel if dry?
09:37 PM SpeedEvil: That depends what you mean by dry.
09:37 PM SpeedEvil: And 'steel'
09:38 PM SpeedEvil: bare steel will corrode very very easily even at 'normal' shop humidities
09:38 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: spent hot water tank (zero water) steel.
09:38 PM SpeedEvil: tiny amounts of salt on the surface will attract misture and act as centres for corrosion to start
09:39 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: I suppose that will depend on how suck my welding would be - pretty bad =)
09:39 PM SpeedEvil: sand would be saner.
09:40 PM jymmmm: sand would work
09:40 PM jymmmm: should be denser too
09:40 PM jymmmm: Maybe a mixture of sand and gravel
09:48 PM XXCoder: nice, jymm. dunno my plans is for wood chips
09:48 PM XXCoder: woodgears guy have made pellet maker for those
09:49 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: chips or sticks?
09:49 PM XXCoder: chips into sticks
09:49 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: like tree trimming chips?
09:49 PM XXCoder: lemme get link a sec
09:49 PM jymmmm: stuff they landscape with?
09:49 PM jymmmm: because that might work too
09:50 PM XXCoder: https://woodgears.ca/reader/alois/press.html
09:50 PM XXCoder: found it
09:53 PM jymmmm: That seems more into making your own logs from shavings
09:53 PM XXCoder: yeah lol can then use it in rocket oven
09:53 PM XXCoder: reuse all chips
09:54 PM jymmmm: Sure, makes sense. I have soem eco bricks, they work well
09:55 PM XXCoder: nice
09:55 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: BUT the wood chips like from landscape are usually free by the truck load.
09:55 PM XXCoder: i doubt I will build one though, I doubt I will make that much wood chips
09:56 PM XXCoder: used ones? ie been in yard for a year
09:56 PM jymmmm: and since I plan on high combustion, that would overcome any cressote issues
09:56 PM XXCoder: I wonder also if landscape chips can be compressed into rods like that too
09:57 PM jymmmm: Most of those chips are soft woods and lots of pine. pine is BAD on wood stoves and creates a LOT of cresote if not burned hot and fast
09:57 PM XXCoder: interesting
09:57 PM XXCoder: I think I might use pine a lot
09:58 PM jymmmm: Adn you would need to season the chips... somehow
10:00 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: But if you have the land, they are always looking for places to dump the chips for free
10:00 PM XXCoder: and use I guess
10:01 PM XXCoder: depends on where too
10:01 PM jymmmm: Like 3 tons at a tons at a time =)
10:01 PM jymmmm: sorry, I mean tlike 3 to 5 yards worth
10:01 PM XXCoder: free chips + compressor = free house material... HMMM
10:02 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: Just mix in borax for fire suppresion
10:03 PM jymmmm: could soak the chips in a borax and water solution to help flame retardent
10:03 PM XXCoder: and lots epoxy. lots. ;)
10:03 PM XXCoder: house would be riciously overpriced
10:03 PM jymmmm: Not really
10:03 PM XXCoder: i know, was kidding lol
10:04 PM jymmmm: the compression with heat and steam produced make some damn hard bricks
10:04 PM jymmmm: But mioture control AFTER that would be an issue
10:05 PM XXCoder: epoxy painted bricks?
10:05 PM jymmmm: else you house will be dust in the wind... literally =)
10:05 PM XXCoder: make cast thats like lego
10:05 PM jymmmm: is epoxy mosure proof?
10:05 PM XXCoder: have hollows for isularion
10:05 PM jymmmm: moisture*
10:05 PM XXCoder: ez stacking heh
10:05 PM XXCoder: erm think so? might be wrong?
10:05 PM XXCoder: once cured anyway
10:06 PM jymmmm: I'm sure there are some materials out there you could use for that
10:07 PM jymmmm: Alright, heading out for the night, laters all =)
10:14 PM _unreal_: very annoyed right now.
10:15 PM _unreal_: discovered the wall is failing. and the water exit for the AC is leaking backwards into the house
10:15 PM _unreal_: just discoverd all kinds of my stuff is destroyed
10:19 PM XXCoder: :(
10:20 PM SpeedEvil: :(
10:21 PM _unreal_: serves me right for putting them in a cardboard box ON THE FLOOR
10:21 PM _unreal_: tomorrow I have to do a major cleanup and trashing
10:22 PM _unreal_: and ANYTHING THAT CAN EVER get destroyed like this is going to be changed to a 99% safety proofing
10:28 PM drdoc: jym: *
10:28 PM drdoc: shit
10:29 PM drdoc: jym: "salt & "dry" don't fit in the same sentence
10:29 PM drdoc: unless you're making jerky
10:39 PM _unreal_: ok making a part for work
10:40 PM _unreal_: $50 for something thats going to take me 30min SURE
11:21 PM _unreal_: elijah cummings dead at 68... OH happy days
11:22 PM XXCoder: jeez
11:23 PM XXCoder: do you dance on his grave?
11:23 PM XXCoder: or pee on it?
11:23 PM _unreal_: to far away
11:23 PM _unreal_: guy was an ass
11:23 PM XXCoder: because?
11:24 PM _unreal_: ever watch any of the hearings etc......
11:24 PM XXCoder: so you wanted him to die because he was doing his job
11:24 PM _unreal_: sickly partasen
11:25 PM _unreal_: his "job" was PURE agenda
11:26 PM _unreal_: I've spent many years as a nurse. hehe if you look at online photos of him from 2016 till now. the man AGED massively
11:27 PM _unreal_: he was one of the bigger promoters of the russian hoax
11:27 PM XXCoder: yeah people handling massive responsibility, responsibly, does age fast. I wonder why bush and trump seem ageless
11:27 PM _unreal_: .... bush I cant account for.... that fucker was a traitor
11:28 PM _unreal_: he's more like an anomaly
11:28 PM XXCoder: yeah he refused to bend over to trump
11:28 PM XXCoder: sure thats traitor
11:29 PM _unreal_: trump has no skeletons so far as I can tell.... thats based on a phenotypical assesment
11:29 PM XXCoder: yeah HE dont have one
11:31 PM _unreal_: in med school phyc... I was taught that people who look horrid normally have a bad history more offten then not of there own doing, people who look great with out makeup etc.... have no "gilt" stress which ages peole VERY fast
11:31 PM _unreal_: guilt
11:31 PM _unreal_: hehe gilt? gilt any one
11:32 PM XXCoder: lol yeah sociapathic people dont feel any
11:32 PM _unreal_: ? ahhh no sociapathic have a high rate of looking ILL
11:32 PM XXCoder: lol
11:33 PM _unreal_: Jeffrey Epstein would be a good example
11:35 PM XXCoder: you probably belive bumps on head tell something about person personality too
11:36 PM _unreal_: naaa
11:36 PM _unreal_: I use to know a guy who had bumps on his head.
11:37 PM _unreal_: had to get his head lanced every few years because he would be MASSIVE ingrown hairs
11:37 PM _unreal_: make big balls of hair under his skin on his scalp
11:38 PM _unreal_: always random locatins
11:38 PM XXCoder: he finially worked on paint booth again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQpyrnAPBxo
11:45 PM _unreal_: he who is he?
11:45 PM XXCoder: that guy in youtube video i linked to
11:46 PM XXCoder: he built entire shop in series of videps
11:46 PM XXCoder: its poretty good videos
11:46 PM XXCoder: highly recommanded
11:47 PM XXCoder: but he used paint booth for his own car before it was complete
11:47 PM _unreal_: oh
11:47 PM _unreal_: ok night