#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 18 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:45 AM drdoc: wooo!
12:50 AM drdoc: after 25 hours at about 9500ns max jitter, latency-test just jumped to 330,000ns
12:50 AM drdoc: pulling up the lcnc documentation PDF in Evince did the trick
01:42 AM Deejay: moin
01:44 AM pink_vampire: drdoc: what was the problem?
01:44 AM pink_vampire: drdoc: did you solved it?
05:01 AM jthornton: morning
05:01 AM XXCoder: heys
05:09 AM Tom_L: morning
05:45 AM pink_vampire: https://imgur.com/gallery/AZjnSHv look how many views and comments it got
05:46 AM XXCoder: lol
06:16 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: LOL
06:16 AM pink_vampire: it is crazy
06:16 AM XXCoder: yeah
06:17 AM pink_vampire: almost 29K views
07:51 AM gregcnc: jym batteryminder i have the smallest one 12117
08:20 AM jthornton: https://youtu.be/e4HXIgVNklQ
08:23 AM XXCoder: definitely higher :)
08:29 AM JT-Shop: yea flew just looking at the tablet for the most part
08:46 AM Loetmichel: *finally* got those kitchen cabinet doors done. Why does it always take longer than expected? Also: not pretty but sufficient. and the boards inside the cabinets are on the exact height wife wanted them to be, not my decision ;) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17556&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:20 AM DaViruz: Loetmichel: you forgot to take Pi into account
09:20 AM DaViruz: everything takes 3.14 times as long as expected, and costs 3.14 times as much
09:44 AM Loetmichel: DaViruz: i noticed ;)
10:02 AM skunkworks: JT-Shop: what is at 0:32? spider web or something?
10:25 AM JT-Shop: sure looks like it... at 100' up too
10:38 AM gregcnc: I just got that letter from Paypal, there is a link to opt out
10:41 AM roycroft: i wonder what the future holds for paypal once ebay finish dumping them
10:46 AM JT-Shop: to opt out of the cc they are sending everyone?
10:47 AM JT-Shop: Tom_L: 5 minutes @ 350 is almost long enough but my gasket melted... gotta find something better
10:57 AM roycroft: the two most annoying things about paypal are:
10:58 AM roycroft: 1. every single time i log in the beg me for a cell phone number, and there's no way i can tell them no - my options are to give them the number or agree that they can ask me later
10:58 AM roycroft: 2. every single time i log into paypal they beg me to get a paypal credit card, and there's no way i can tell them i don't want one
10:59 AM jthornton: personal or business account?
10:59 AM roycroft: both
10:59 AM roycroft: and i have an ebay mastercard that i use for my ebay/paypal purchaes
11:00 AM roycroft: the paypal card does not offer any benefits that the ebay mastercard does not
11:00 AM jthornton: paypal has never asked for a phone number but they have been sending me emails saying they are sending me a CC
11:00 AM roycroft: other than, i suppose, the benefit of not being nagged eery time i log in
11:00 AM roycroft: every
11:00 AM roycroft: maybe you already gave them a cell phone number and you forgot having done so
11:01 AM jthornton: no, I never give a phone number out
11:01 AM CaptHindsight: conform and consume, did you miss the memo?
11:03 AM roycroft: they can bugger right off
11:03 AM * roycroft is not a mindless millennial robot
11:04 AM * Loetmichel has more fun making stuff than consuming
11:04 AM Loetmichel: and i dont even know what "conform" means ;
11:04 AM Loetmichel: )
11:05 AM roycroft: now wait just a doggone minute
11:05 AM roycroft: you are german
11:05 AM roycroft: you cannot possibly not know what "conform" means
11:05 AM roycroft: unless
11:05 AM CaptHindsight: no they don't do that anymore
11:06 AM roycroft: perhaps you're actually a gypsy
11:06 AM roycroft: your ancestors may be bohemian
11:06 AM roycroft: not in the same way, capthindsight, but it's still part of the teutonic dna
11:07 AM ziper: can I cut the tip off a regular tap to make it usable in blind holes?
11:08 AM roycroft: i'd get a proper bottom tap
11:08 AM jthornton: tapping by hand could be ok but not on CNC
11:08 AM roycroft: it would be tricky griding just enough off the tip of a tap and retaining a good entry point
11:09 AM ziper: I can't find any that arent exorbitant. its only for a single hole, in aluminum
11:09 AM roycroft: if it's aluminium you're tapping you can probably do it, but the thread might be a little rough
11:09 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: lets just say my dad often called me "damn stubborn like an Ass"
11:11 AM Loetmichel: ah, in english its stubborn as a mule, sorry
11:11 AM Loetmichel: in german its "esel" a.k.a ass/donkey
11:13 AM ziper: well my follow up question is how I should cut the hardened steel tap
11:14 AM Loetmichel: ziper: with an angle grinder and some patinence
11:14 AM Loetmichel: (if it gets hot its trash)
11:14 AM roycroft: a belt grinder would work nicely for that
11:14 AM ziper: can't re treat it after?
11:14 AM roycroft: no
11:14 AM roycroft: don't get it hot
11:14 AM roycroft: period
11:14 AM Loetmichel: indeed
11:15 AM roycroft: if you're asking how to cut it you don't know how to heat treat it properly :)
11:15 AM ziper: well, how would I heat treat it, if I did know
11:15 AM Loetmichel: you cant
11:15 AM Loetmichel: even if you would know how
11:15 AM roycroft: that all depends on how the tap is made
11:16 AM roycroft: but it's not something you would be able to do properly in a home shop
11:16 AM Loetmichel: you wouldnt know which temperatures and hardening dephs and what cooling oil/water/ice that specific HSS steel needs
11:16 AM roycroft: your best approach is to not get it hot
11:17 AM Loetmichel: what roycoft says. too many variables
11:17 AM roycroft: and for that reason, a belt grinder would be better than an angle grinder
11:17 AM roycroft: it's easier to control how hot it gets with a belt grinder
11:17 AM ziper: well, even soft steel should still work on aluminum right? (not that I plan on getting it hot)
11:17 AM ziper: yes I will use the belt grinder and a cup of water
11:18 AM roycroft: yes, but still don't get it hot :)
11:18 AM Loetmichel: yes, even softened tap will work in alu... for a while
11:18 AM roycroft: a bottom tap has 1-1/2 tapered threads
11:18 AM Loetmichel: it will get dull pretty quick though
11:18 AM roycroft: so keep that in mind
11:18 AM roycroft: don't try to grind off all the taper or you will be sorry
11:19 AM * Loetmichel only uses "sackloch-maschinengewindebohrer" at work
11:19 AM Loetmichel: and usually in the battery drill
11:19 AM roycroft: he only has one hole to tap with it, loetmichel
11:19 AM Loetmichel: (blind hole machine taps"
11:19 AM Loetmichel: )
11:20 AM Loetmichel: they are MUCH easier to work with than the usual "home improvement shop" 3 sets for hand tapping
11:20 AM roycroft: and i'll repeat once more
11:20 AM roycroft: when you're grinding it, don't get it hot
11:20 AM roycroft: but if, in spite of all the warnings, you do get it hot
11:20 AM drdoc: pink_vampire: the preoblem was adding youtube playback (to a system with all sound disabled or uninstalled) and and a multiMB PDF in Evince to a load that was already over 2.5
11:20 AM roycroft: don't quench it when it's hot
11:20 AM roycroft: just let it air cool
11:20 AM drdoc: The fix is simple:
11:20 AM drdoc: Don't *do* that.
11:20 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3031&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- the right style
11:21 AM roycroft: if you quench it when it's hot it will be very brittle, and may easily break when you try to use it
11:21 AM ziper: ok
11:21 AM roycroft: if you let it air cool it will be soft
11:21 AM roycroft: and at worst won't cut very well
11:21 AM Loetmichel: they are super, especially for alu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwotc3oRdtw
11:22 AM ziper: what is the idea behind brine quenching?
11:22 AM Loetmichel: cools faster than plain water IIRC
11:23 AM Loetmichel: better heat transfer
11:24 AM Loetmichel: ziper: hardening steel is an art
11:24 AM Loetmichel: there is so much that can go wrong that you dont have a chance to do it right if you dont know the EXACT type of steel used
11:24 AM drdoc: no, it's a science
11:25 AM roycroft: it's actually both :)
11:25 AM roycroft: in controlled conditions it's a very exact science
11:25 AM drdoc: the short version about qunching is that you want to fix the carbon molecules in the proper position
11:25 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: like all other "manual" jobs ;)
11:25 AM roycroft: in an average forge it's an art that can be mastered
11:25 AM drdoc: roycroft: point
11:26 AM drdoc: you can do ridiculous things with the right steel, correctly treated
11:26 AM roycroft: artistic heat treatment will never be as good as scientific heat treatment
11:26 AM roycroft: but it can be good enough for most applications
11:27 AM drdoc: I watched a bladesmith's journeyman test once
11:27 AM Loetmichel: drdoc: i meant: if you dont have all the info you need its NOT a science but an "art" to "gut-know" what that unknown pieve of steel needs in temperature, quencing and annealing
11:27 AM roycroft: if you don't know what metal you're working with, heat trement is neither art nor science
11:27 AM roycroft: it's a crap shoot
11:27 AM drdoc: Loetmichel: that was true 50 years ago
11:27 AM ziper: if you do it poorly, it just gets to brittle?
11:27 AM roycroft: or it cracks
11:27 AM roycroft: or it delaminates
11:28 AM drdoc: ziper: or shatter, or get softer
11:28 AM roycroft: or it doesn't harden
11:28 AM roycroft: or it warps horribly
11:28 AM SpeedEvil: This is why you need an x-ray metal analyser - they are so enormously helpful - wait while I get my referral link
11:28 AM roycroft: or any combination of the above
11:28 AM drdoc: Loetmichel: steel alloys have both simplified and gotten more complex, depending on the alloy
11:28 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-EDX-P3000-XRF-alloy-analyzer-X-Ray-Spectrometer-PRECIOUS-METALS-MINING-SOIL/311584455316 - would be really awesome
11:29 AM roycroft: what's changed in the last half century is performance expectation
11:29 AM SpeedEvil: At 1% of the price, I would seriously consider purchasing it.
11:29 AM roycroft: and that has driven the advancement of the science of heat treatment
11:29 AM ziper: delaminate?
11:29 AM drdoc: you can buy 1084 steel that is literally 99.145% iron and .84% carbon
11:30 AM roycroft: delamination can happen if you're forging different metals together
11:30 AM roycroft: which is something bladesmiths do quite often
11:30 AM Loetmichel: drdoc: that doesnt help the guy that has a softened tap and wants to reharden it
11:30 AM roycroft: that would not apply to most machine shop tooling
11:30 AM drdoc: ziper: if the heating and quenching aren't right, even a homogeneous alloy can develop layers of carbon
11:30 AM Loetmichel: siply to many unkowns to do it "right"
11:30 AM drdoc: Loetmichel: agreed
11:30 AM Loetmichel: simply
11:31 AM roycroft: the bottom line is this:
11:31 AM roycroft: go ahead and grind down your tap for this one-off hole in aluminium
11:31 AM roycroft: but don't get it hot while grinding
11:31 AM drdoc: but do it slow
11:31 AM Loetmichel: and then trash the tap ;)
11:31 AM Loetmichel: after the one shot hole ;)
11:31 AM Loetmichel: (and buy a set of blind hole taps for machine usage)
11:31 AM drdoc: if you wet-grind it you probably won't destroy the HT
11:32 AM roycroft: if you're interested in heat treatment beyond that, be prepared to spend a lot of time studying, and be prepared for a lot of failed or partially failed parts while you're getting the feel of it
11:32 AM Loetmichel: only caveat i have with those is that they DONT self-align
11:32 AM roycroft: and do not have expectations of being able to achieve perfect heat treatment in a home shop
11:32 AM drdoc: and read Dr Kevin Cashen's work
11:33 AM roycroft: set your expectation to be able to achieve fairly consistent, decent heat treatment in your home shop
11:33 AM Loetmichel: if you set them up at an ange to the hole you will end up with a thread at exactly that angle
11:33 AM roycroft: and not for all materials
11:33 AM drdoc: roycroft: and choose your alloys with that in mind
11:33 AM roycroft: "home" heat treatment can also be rather expensive
11:33 AM drdoc: eh
11:33 AM roycroft: in most cases you'll want to heat the metal in an oxygen-freen environment
11:33 AM roycroft: and an inert gas kiln is expensie
11:34 AM roycroft: ss foil to wrap your parts in while heating gets expensive
11:34 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: yes, at least you need an high temp oven thats controllable in both temperature AND ramping up/down
11:34 AM roycroft: and gets in the way of quenching
11:34 AM drdoc: an oven big enough for tooling can be done for under $500
11:34 AM Loetmichel: precisely controllable that is
11:34 AM roycroft: loetmichel: that part is easy
11:34 AM Loetmichel: for annealing
11:34 AM roycroft: just get an old glass kiln and replace the temperature controller with a cheap pid-based controller
11:35 AM roycroft: you can convert one for <$100
11:35 AM roycroft: https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4
11:35 AM roycroft: that is perfect for the application
11:36 AM drdoc: http://www.docsbox.net/Shop/Oven/
11:36 AM ziper: im going to thread it as much as I can uncut, then trim a little, rethread, repeat
11:36 AM * roycroft has some of those
11:36 AM ziper: that way it will be mostly straight
11:36 AM ziper: I have such a kiln
11:36 AM roycroft: do you have a starter tap or a plug tap, ziper?
11:36 AM drdoc: roycroft: the oven there used an Auberin PID
11:36 AM ziper: nope
11:36 AM roycroft: most of your hardware stores sell plug taps
11:36 AM ziper: still waiting in the mail
11:36 AM * Loetmichel wonders if its viable to just drill a hole in an old kiln and feed an argon tube in for the "oxygen free enviroment"
11:37 AM roycroft: and if that's what you have, just go as deep as you can, grind it back to 1-1/2 threads, and go for the rest
11:37 AM ziper: had to get a m10x1, only could find 1.25 and 1.5 locally
11:37 AM Loetmichel: welding argon should be easily obtainable
11:37 AM roycroft: loetmichel: that would make an "oxygen-scarce" environment
11:37 AM drdoc: Loetmichel: the problem there is that you have to open the oven
11:37 AM roycroft: but it would be hard to ensure that it is oxygen-free
11:37 AM Loetmichel: hmm, correct
11:38 AM Loetmichel: on both
11:38 AM SpeedEvil: roycroft: you can put an outer purge container around the kiln.
11:38 AM roycroft: drdoc: you don't have to open it at critical temperature, though
11:38 AM drdoc: SS foil, carbon dust or chips
11:38 AM Loetmichel: the opening: maybe putting the lid up?
11:38 AM SpeedEvil: Stainless foil is commonly used.
11:38 AM Loetmichel: "top loader"?
11:38 AM roycroft: you can put the part in before purging and heating
11:38 AM drdoc: roycroft: if you're hardening you so
11:38 AM drdoc: do*
11:38 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: also, fucky stuff can happen with the oxide coatings.
11:38 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: some oxide coatings on elements are not stable under no oxygen condition.
11:39 AM ziper: I wonder how much longer the resistive heating elements last in an inert atmosphere
11:39 AM Loetmichel: interesting
11:39 AM roycroft: the time it takes to pull the part and quench it won't afford much of an opportunity for oxidation
11:39 AM roycroft: unless you're a sloth
11:39 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: and if you then reintroduce them to oxygen uncontrolled, bad stuff happens
11:39 AM roycroft: in which case you missed your quench temperature anyway
11:39 AM drdoc: roycroft: true enough
11:39 AM roycroft: unless you compensate by overheating the part
11:39 AM roycroft: in which case you burned it and it's useless
11:39 AM drdoc: which is also bad
11:39 AM Loetmichel: hihi... "unless you are a sloth"... that picture in my mind
11:40 AM Loetmichel: burning fur and all ;)
11:40 AM drdoc: I have a 1084 knife that tested at 64RH
11:40 AM drdoc: and have been making my own tools for nearly 50 years
11:40 AM roycroft: if you're going to do home shop heat treating, that pid controller i linked to above really is ideal
11:41 AM drdoc: yes, yes it is
11:41 AM roycroft: you can ramp it up and down at any rate you want, and program multiple soak periods
11:41 AM roycroft: and it will handle just about any temperature sensor you might find
11:41 AM drdoc: I have one now with an RS485 interface
11:41 AM ziper: would it really kill them to put a couple more buttons?
11:41 AM drdoc: and a Windows 98 laptop to run the software
11:42 AM drdoc: :-)
11:42 AM ziper: i hate using devices where I have to navigate with 2 buttons
11:42 AM ziper: better than 1 button, i guess
11:42 AM drdoc: ziper: a bit more money buys one with a serial interface and Windows software
11:44 AM drdoc: roycroft: but really my favorite thing is eyeball heating & water-quenching 70,000-series rebar
11:45 AM Loetmichel: ahem: is rebar even hardenable?
11:45 AM drdoc: Fun Fact: reputable high-tensile rebar is either very good-quality 414x or a close equivalent
11:45 AM Loetmichel: or do you have to have a carbon source?
11:46 AM drdoc: Loetmichel: 4140, 4142 etc can be heat treated into high 50s RH
11:46 AM ziper: how come shitty old bedframes never seem to rust, even when lift out in the rain for years?
11:46 AM Loetmichel: ah, good to know
11:46 AM SpeedEvil: ziper: they are made of hate.
11:46 AM drdoc: and are *very* forgiving in heat treat
11:46 AM Loetmichel: ziper: because you WANT them to rust away
11:47 AM roycroft: because they are made of melted down random metals, which include a lot of zinc
11:48 AM drdoc: get it just below cherry red, hold it there for a couple of minutes, quench it in 40C water (or heavy brine)
11:48 AM roycroft: not to mention they're made so poorly that there is almost as much mill scale as metal in them
11:48 AM drdoc: heat it lightly to a straw color to draw the temper
11:49 AM ziper: zinc inhibits rusting?
11:49 AM drdoc: Loetmichel: both my shop hammers are forged rebar
11:49 AM drdoc: ziper: it does
11:50 AM drdoc: at the expense of almost every other desirable quality
11:50 AM roycroft: google "galvanization"
11:50 AM ziper: then how come the potmetal bellcrank on my boat has basically turned to dust?
11:50 AM SpeedEvil: ziper: Evil mermaids.
11:51 AM drdoc: ziper: "at the expense of almost every other desirable quality"
11:51 AM drdoc: :-)
11:51 AM Loetmichel: ziper: zinc prevents rust by rusting faster than steel (aka sacrificial anode)
11:52 AM drdoc: zinc is a good dietary supplement
11:52 AM drdoc: Full Stop.
11:52 AM ziper: so you are saying i broke it due to my brute strength, and not because it was withering away
11:52 AM roycroft: it's better than lead as a dietary suppliment
11:52 AM Loetmichel: so if you want to protect something made of zinc you need an even less "noble" metal to coat it ;)
11:53 AM ziper: magnesium it is )))))))))
11:53 AM drdoc: ziper: you know where the term potmetal came from, right?
11:53 AM Loetmichel: drdoc zinc is also the reason why welders get "welders feaver" sometimes
11:53 AM Loetmichel: if careless
11:53 AM drdoc: yes, yes
11:53 AM drdoc: btdt
11:53 AM roycroft: chromium is being mixed with zinc these days for enhanced protection
11:53 AM Loetmichel: dont ask how i know ;)
11:54 AM Loetmichel: (and no, welders fever is NO fun for a couple days)
11:55 AM roycroft: i've never gotten welders fever
11:55 AM roycroft: i was warned about it at a young age
11:55 AM roycroft: and have always been careful to grind away any zinc coating before welding
11:55 AM ziper: they say to drink milk
11:55 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: its like a bad cold with muscle ace, shivering and the works
11:56 AM Loetmichel: cold sweat on top
11:56 AM roycroft: i say "don't get it"
11:56 AM Loetmichel: ist basically metal poisoning
11:56 AM roycroft: better not to get it than to have to treat it
11:56 AM Loetmichel: indeed ;)
11:56 AM roycroft: and it's easy to avoid
11:56 AM drdoc: Loetmichel: a shop I worked in in the '70s bought a truckload of 1/4"-wall pipe "salvaged from a refinery"
11:57 AM drdoc: the guy running the chop saw "noticed the smell, didn't think much about it"
11:57 AM drdoc: was in the hospital for 20 days
11:57 AM Loetmichel: ouch
11:57 AM Loetmichel: what was it?
11:57 AM drdoc: this is Texas, so the ASSumption was an oil refinery
11:58 AM roycroft: then it was nastiness
11:58 AM drdoc: turned out the pipe was salvaged from an old sulphur plant
11:58 AM Loetmichel: ouchouch
11:58 AM drdoc: it was bad
11:58 AM roycroft: even worse than petrochemicals
11:59 AM ziper: I don't know why people don't wear respirators. pretty much any time im sanding or using resin I wear one. Not even out of safety concerns, but its more comfortable than huffing weird smelling shit
11:59 AM drdoc: we *all* got a $2500 settlement, unsolicited, for just being at work that day
11:59 AM roycroft: i don't wear one when i'm sanding any more
11:59 AM drdoc: ziper: '70s, Texas
11:59 AM roycroft: because i've spent about $2000 on festool sanders and a good true hepa extractor
12:00 PM drdoc: my boss gave the OSHA guy a case of bourbon and $500 twice a year
12:00 PM roycroft: but i weare one when i do other operations
12:00 PM * Loetmichel worked on a Carbon fibre plate/ glass fibre plate CNC mill for a few years
12:00 PM Loetmichel: if THAT didnt give me cancer nothing will ;)
12:00 PM drdoc: heh
12:01 PM drdoc: I worked a well in New Mexico in '84 where we started losing fluid down-hole
12:01 PM ziper: Loetmichel, oh, man, I think i will be machining CF soon
12:01 PM ziper: and I have no idea how
12:01 PM drdoc: all the usual treatments didn't seal it
12:02 PM ziper: going to make most of the parts by molding, but will need to machine some operations
12:02 PM drdoc: a truck out of Juarez showed up at 4am, meaning they left Juarez right after dark
12:02 PM drdoc: we mixed 2 tons of raw asbestos in an open hopper, wearing paint masks
12:03 PM roycroft: carbon fibre is pretty dusty when it's being machined, isn't it?
12:03 PM drdoc: Loetmichel: if THAT didn't give me cancer,. nothing will
12:04 PM drdoc: roycroft: I wear a respirator hand-sanding CF
12:04 PM drdoc: stuff scares me
12:05 PM roycroft: i've never worked with it
12:05 PM roycroft: but my impression is that it's fairly toxic and hard to control
12:06 PM drdoc: I'd rather install pink insulation
12:06 PM drdoc: :-)
12:06 PM drdoc: it's *itchy*
12:06 PM drdoc: roycroft: here you go
12:06 PM drdoc: http://www.docsbox.net/Knives/Bone/
12:07 PM drdoc: 1084 carbon steel
12:08 PM drdoc: and there's another material you have to be careful with
12:08 PM drdoc: bone
12:09 PM drdoc: so, since everybody's online
12:10 PM drdoc: does LCNC deal well with NC limit switches?
12:10 PM drdoc: using normally-closed switches is kind of a pain in GRBL
12:13 PM roycroft: bone smells horrible when machining it
12:13 PM roycroft: i'm not sure how toxic it is, but it smells so bad i avoid using it
12:14 PM MarkusBec: ziper: mashining cfk is ok if you use the right vacuum and you make sure everything is vacuumed
12:14 PM drdoc: google silicosis
12:14 PM skunkworks: drdoc: yes.
12:14 PM drdoc: skunkworks: yay
12:14 PM skunkworks: you can invert the logic within linuxcnc to do whatever you want
12:15 PM drdoc: normally open limit switches are fine on a 3D printer
12:15 PM skunkworks: Normally closed is the normal way...
12:15 PM drdoc: on a mill/router/lathe, the idea make me twitch
12:16 PM MarkusBec: ziper: in europ you need "staubschutzklasse M or H"
12:16 PM MarkusBec: h is basicly vacuums for asbestos
12:17 PM drdoc: speaking of 3D printer
12:17 PM ziper: not safety, what about actually making good parts. I dont know if I should try slitting or, or making two parts and bonding them back together
12:18 PM MarkusBec: https://www.festool.com/products/dust-extraction/special-extractors/574941---cth-48-e--a
12:18 PM drdoc: I need to get to work on my filament drive
12:18 PM drdoc: v1 will push TPE just fine...
12:18 PM drdoc: most of the time
12:19 PM drdoc: which doesn't really cut it
12:21 PM MarkusBec: the problem with CF is not that it is toxic, its pure carbon
12:21 PM MarkusBec: the problem is the fibers ar that small that they can pearce your DNA
12:21 PM roycroft: class m has the auto-cleaning feature, doesn't it?
12:21 PM MarkusBec: yes but you can not use it
12:21 PM MarkusBec: you have to use a vaccum bag
12:22 PM MarkusBec: M has controlled air flow
12:22 PM roycroft: yeah, but i mean the bag has the feature
12:22 PM roycroft: i.e. it has something that beats on the side of the bag periodically to knock the "crust" down into the bag
12:22 PM roycroft: because ultra-fine dust cakes on the side of the bag and clogs it quickly
12:24 PM MarkusBec: my bosh only shakes the main filter
12:25 PM roycroft: i have a festool midi
12:25 PM MarkusBec: it only makes sense if you use it without a bag
12:25 PM roycroft: which is the same power as the ct36/ct48, but smaller capacity
12:25 PM roycroft: but i use mine for wood dust
12:25 PM roycroft: i don't need that auto bag cleaning feature
12:26 PM roycroft: if i were sanding sheet rock i would
12:26 PM MarkusBec: at the moment i am searching for a shop vac for my metall milling mashine
12:27 PM MarkusBec: not totaly shure what i want
12:27 PM roycroft: i just got a cheap shopvac brand one for my milling machine/drill press
12:28 PM roycroft: i also bought a small one for my lathe
12:28 PM roycroft: i scoop most of the swarf out by hand
12:28 PM roycroft: but i like to clean up the tiny bits that remain
12:28 PM MarkusBec: https://www.bosch-professional.com/lb/en/products/gas-12-25-pl-060197C100
12:28 PM roycroft: i like the small, cheap ones - they're very portable, and when they inevitably die they're cheap to replace
12:29 PM MarkusBec: 270€
12:29 PM MarkusBec: i had a cheap one but its pita
12:30 PM MarkusBec: switch broke, plastike feels cheap and it already costs 100€
12:31 PM drdoc: has anybody tried adapting those crap "cyclone" uprights for dust extraction?
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: toothpick or cotton swab to get into the tight spaces where the swafr hides?
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: swarf even
12:33 PM MarkusBec: flush it with industrial cleaner :P
12:33 PM SpeedEvil: get a shopvac shopvac
12:34 PM CaptHindsight: too noisy
12:34 PM CaptHindsight: where to find a silent shop vac
12:34 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: ask XXCoder
12:35 PM MarkusBec: https://www.bosch-professional.com/lb/en/products/gas-12-25-pl-060197C100
12:35 PM MarkusBec: arg
12:35 PM roycroft: festool extractors are incredibly expensive
12:35 PM roycroft: but they work brilliantly
12:35 PM roycroft: and are very very quiet
12:35 PM SpeedEvil: You can make a cupboard around your shopvac to reduce noise.
12:35 PM MarkusBec: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12LhvAQTh_wZGEt2W-ohupdCz6wfqL4IW/view?usp=sharing
12:36 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NUMATIC-HENRY-HOOVER-RED-VACUUM-CLEANER-HIGH-SPEED-1400W-HIGH-WATTAGE/283595016744 - are pretty quiet
12:36 PM roycroft: that bosch is supposed to be really good as well
12:36 PM MarkusBec: https://drive.google.com/open?id=11k-u_s-KB_uf71-HkpaZeR3GZpIEV1tA
12:36 PM SpeedEvil: it's all in the baffling
12:36 PM roycroft: and since markusbec has linked to it multiple times now, i'd say he's endorsing it
12:36 PM MarkusBec: https://drive.google.com/open?id=116rmW_pNRuDdP9rK_cg_Ig6ay8jczwMK
12:37 PM MarkusBec: just wrong pastbuffer :P
12:39 PM * Loetmichel just reactivated his homemade CNC mill after 2 years of standstill at least... silicone keyboard dead, the hose plopped of the cooling pump. Other than that: works juuust fine... i am surprised that not even the cooling fins in the spindle had grown shut. (but MAN was that coolant nasty to touch and smell)
12:39 PM roycroft: just keep in mind that if you're extracting anything even remotely toxic, there are very few true hepa-rated extractors on the market
12:39 PM roycroft: and in the us, at least, a lot of products are marketed as "hepa" when they're really not
12:39 PM roycroft: they will have a hepa filter in them
12:40 PM roycroft: but they do not have the proper air flow seals to earn a true hepa rating
12:40 PM roycroft: hepa filters are useless if the nasty stuff just flows around them
12:40 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: CF isnt toxic at all
12:41 PM roycroft: we've discussed several materials here just this morning
12:41 PM Loetmichel: its like asbestos: the fibres have the right length to get into your lungs and cause cancer and "dust lung"
12:41 PM roycroft: so i'm discussing the general case
12:42 PM roycroft: and i include carcinogenicity as "toxic" when using the term generically
12:42 PM Loetmichel: yeah, in THAT sense its toxic
12:42 PM Loetmichel: but not in the meaning of the word
12:42 PM roycroft: but to be really clear, i'll try to say "hazardous" instead of "toxic" from now on
12:43 PM Loetmichel: its just carbon and a bit of inert epoxy based resin (which is biocompatible once hardened, only not so much when NOT hardened)
12:43 PM roycroft: so it's stabalized food :)
12:44 PM Loetmichel: but even with the festool HEPA filtered shopvac you could see what you worked on all day if you sneezed in the evening: white: glass fibre, black: carbon fibre. some gray: both ;)
12:44 PM MarkusBec: maybe cfk is a little bit better than glas becaus it will degrade faster
12:44 PM MarkusBec: but the fibers are butch smaller
12:44 PM MarkusBec: mutch
12:45 PM roycroft: best not to sneeze in the evening, then
12:45 PM roycroft: you'll sleep better
12:45 PM roycroft: ignorance is bliss :)
12:45 PM Loetmichel: MarkusBec: still remember? those wre the days... -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgOD4uny5wg
12:46 PM MarkusBec: still runing weekly :P
12:47 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: there you can see the big mill in the background and the shopvac i meant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJmBF8HzWoc
12:47 PM MarkusBec: Loetmichel: new cnc => https://drive.google.com/open?id=13GCfFNM8QnMFpjQfMR_52aGiZUzFvflP
12:48 PM Loetmichel: ah, won the lottery?
12:48 PM Loetmichel: ;)
12:48 PM MarkusBec: it was cheap
12:48 PM MarkusBec: Loetmichel: at the time you run the big cnc i think the cf was less of a problem
12:49 PM Loetmichel: but?
12:49 PM MarkusBec: (smoking 2 bags of cigarets in peak :P)
12:49 PM Loetmichel: packs
12:49 PM Loetmichel: and yes, right
12:50 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: there you can see said machine in action at the new location (model shop was bought out) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYhICZEsCA
12:51 PM MarkusBec: you had an pyrolytic pre filter ;)
12:52 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: starting 2:30
01:45 PM Jymm: hey folks
02:29 PM luminize: Hi there
02:30 PM luminize: I finally figured out how to register :)
02:32 PM JT-Shop: yea
02:32 PM Jymm: ve7it: Hey lawernce
02:32 PM ve7it: hey Jymm ... just updated kernel... will be back after a quick reboot
02:33 PM Jymm: Such poor reviews, damn... https://www.amazon.com/US-Stove-Company-GW1949-Non-Electric/product-reviews/B01CT69R5Q/ -- full video from the "inventor"... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjyf4dBViic
02:34 PM ve7it: back
02:34 PM Jymm: wb ve7it
02:42 PM ve7it: Jymm, not sure what "wb" referes to.... "write back?" is a "wag"
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: velcomly back
02:46 PM Loetmichel: ve7it: Welcome Back
03:00 PM ve7it: ah so...
03:15 PM * JT-Shop wonders what the 8" x 36" Enco mill is worth, very little usage
03:41 PM Tom_L: ran into a wannabe linuxcnc convert with a little mill running mach3 and a plasma table he wants to convert
03:43 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, alot if you're selling and not as much if you're buying :)
03:44 PM * Jymm lol @ Tom_L
03:44 PM Jymm: true enough
03:48 PM Deejay: gn8
03:48 PM Tom_L: went to my local weld shop today to drop something off. front lot was full of vehicles so i figured they were busy. office door was locked which is normal for him, front shop door was locked so i went to the side door and went inside. the burglar alarm went off and nobody was in there so i called him. Oh, i sold the business! so i went next door to the purchaser to find all their doors locked as well.
03:49 PM Tom_L: started walking back to find a couple guys heading my way so i explained i was just dropping something off and found out they were the new owners
03:50 PM Tom_L: been one of those days and that was just the start of it
03:50 PM Jymm: Tom_L No shiny new braclets?
03:50 PM Tom_L: naw
03:50 PM Tom_L: the didn't know their door was unlocked though
03:51 PM Jymm: Tom_L Well, that's a good thing at least
03:51 PM Tom_L: so it was probably good for them as well
03:52 PM Jymm: yeah
04:18 PM Jymm: I think the worse video on youtube. Out of the 20 minutes, only these 15 seconds are of any value... https://youtu.be/caQfdWjTXdQ?t=988
04:20 PM JT-Shop: I'm selling it Tom_L
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: anyone here sell on Amamazon?
04:22 PM roycroft: i'm sure there are much worse videos on youtube
04:24 PM Tom_L: let's not start a manhunt for them
04:24 PM Tom_L: :)
04:25 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDdJ-KXtMRo
04:25 PM roycroft: there's one, as a proof of concept :)
04:25 PM roycroft: and i'll be kind and stop with one
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/business/boeing-flight-simulator-text-message.html
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: so they new about the issue at Boeing long before the crashes
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: knew/new
04:28 PM roycroft: of course boeing knew about it
04:29 PM Tom_L: they're not the only ones with overlooked issues
04:29 PM roycroft: they were not overlooked
04:29 PM roycroft: they knew all about the problem
04:30 PM roycroft: they pushed out a software update on the planes and didn't tell anyone
04:30 PM roycroft: which is totally against all regulations and past history
04:30 PM roycroft: the software update was to try to mask the problem
04:30 PM roycroft: not fix it
04:30 PM roycroft: because it would cost too much money to fix
04:30 PM Tom_L: i read it
04:31 PM Tom_L: i know of an instrument company with similar issue
04:31 PM roycroft: i agree that they're not the only ones who have done something like this
04:31 PM Tom_L: cost too much to fix and would affect too many planes already out there
04:31 PM roycroft: but this was pretty egregious
04:31 PM Tom_L: so we'll just wait til it bites us
04:32 PM Tom_L: a plane maker was trying to get certified and found it
04:32 PM roycroft: and look what it's done
04:32 PM roycroft: it's grounded the entire fleet of that plane
04:32 PM roycroft: possibly forever
04:32 PM roycroft: and totally killed the product
04:32 PM roycroft: if they had 'fessed up when they first knew about it it would have totally killed the product
04:33 PM Tom_L: hindsight.
04:33 PM roycroft: "hindsight" in this case means "they got caught"
04:34 PM Jymm: sin of omission
04:36 PM andypugh: rene_dev_: Are you there?
04:37 PM andypugh: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/37574-non-random-atc-gmoccapy-tool-pockets-numbers#147596
04:37 PM andypugh: Looks like something that you may know more about than me.
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: I back on the SVG slicing for LCNC
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: I was trying to build what you did with Cairo but all the libs have changed
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: just about everything is depreciated
04:43 PM andypugh: from gi.repository import Rsvg as rsvg ?
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: what are all the kids doing with this? What's the modern way to do it?
04:44 PM andypugh: Rust?
04:45 PM CaptHindsight: using QtPyVCP github.com/kcjengr/qtpyvcp/ for the GUI
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: since I'm pretty much starting from scratch I'd like to use something that will be here in a few years from now
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: if i worked for Google I guess I'd have to use Go
04:48 PM andypugh: Anyway, that line above does give you rsvg on Stretch / Buster.
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: was using Sid
04:49 PM andypugh: And the same works for a lot of things that at first appear to have disappeared.
04:49 PM andypugh: Probably Sid too. Try it.
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: have to build a Stretch system to easily use QtPyVCP anyway
04:50 PM andypugh: >>> import rsvg
04:50 PM andypugh: Traceback (most recent call last):
04:50 PM andypugh: File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
04:50 PM andypugh: ImportError: No module named rsvg
04:50 PM andypugh: >>> from gi.repository import Rsvg as rsvg
04:50 PM andypugh: __main__:1: PyGIWarning: Rsvg was imported without specifying a version first. Use gi.require_version('Rsvg', '2.0') before import to ensure that the right version gets loaded.
04:51 PM andypugh: >>> dir(rsvg)
04:51 PM andypugh: ['DimensionData', 'Error', 'Handle', 'HandleClass', 'HandleFlags', 'HandlePrivate', 'MAJOR_VERSION', 'MICRO_VERSION', 'MINOR_VERSION', 'PositionData', 'VERSION', '__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__dir__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__format__', '__getattr__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__loader__', '__module__', '__name__', '__new__', '__path__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__',
04:51 PM andypugh: '__setattr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__', '__weakref__', '_namespace', '_version', 'cleanup', 'error_quark', 'set_default_dpi', 'set_default_dpi_x_y']
04:52 PM andypugh: gi.repository is a shim later that gives you most of the same libraries but using GO
05:50 PM _unreal_: hum
05:55 PM andypugh: mmmmmmmmmmmmm
05:55 PM andypugh: Enough?
05:56 PM jthornton: lol
05:58 PM XXCoder: or did you want a hummer car? sorry cant afford to buy and give you one
05:58 PM jthornton: any news on the elio
05:59 PM XXCoder: sadly no.
05:59 PM XXCoder: stock isnt doing great
05:59 PM jthornton: that's not a good sign
05:59 PM XXCoder: yeah
05:59 PM andypugh: I am testing the medicinal properties of “Southern Comfort”, as I am feeling a bit sub-par. My first cold for years. It’s at least as effective as conventional cold remedies, with the advantage that at least you stop caring eventually.
06:00 PM jthornton: yep
06:00 PM XXCoder: 92 cent per stock now
06:00 PM jthornton: what was the high?
06:00 PM XXCoder: something like 23 ollar
06:01 PM jthornton: wow, that
06:01 PM jthornton: 's a huge drop
06:01 PM XXCoder: it was brief peak
06:01 PM XXCoder: most of it its been $3
06:01 PM jthornton: I'm trying to find a compact spare kit for the wife's honda insight but it's rather difficult
06:02 PM jthornton: she had a blow out and without a spare your screwed
06:03 PM jthornton: $3 to $1 is not that bad
06:04 PM XXCoder: i just hope ill recover my investment lol but I dont gamble with money I cant afford to lose
06:04 PM XXCoder: so if they fail its fine
06:04 PM jthornton: did you buy stock?
06:04 PM XXCoder: just small amount
06:04 PM XXCoder: minium when it was out
06:04 PM jthornton: no wonder your watching it
06:05 PM jthornton: I've never bought stock
06:05 PM XXCoder: well not exactly "watching" it just check once per few months
06:05 PM XXCoder: I only own 2 groups, elio and solar ray
06:05 PM XXCoder: latter is still developing new production for solar panels which should be far far cheaper
06:06 PM jthornton: that could be a good thing
06:06 PM XXCoder: yep
06:06 PM XXCoder: current solar panels production uses saws
06:06 PM XXCoder: which have kerf of 50% of stock that makes one panel
06:06 PM jthornton: to cut the cells from the round thingy
06:06 PM XXCoder: saw also means minium thickness or it will crack
06:07 PM andypugh: https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/news/2019/ford-ecoblue-diesel-injector-failure/ is interesting in the context of Continental planning oto pul out of the combustion engine market.
06:07 PM XXCoder: ray is researching way to dont use saw, which means 100% stock is turned into solar panels. it also allows far thinner panels. to ricious degree
06:08 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPBTdSfLBg8 this is company I invested in
06:08 PM XXCoder: simple and humorous video summary by minutephysics
06:09 PM XXCoder: 3:41 min video
06:09 PM jthornton: I'm so far behind on data usage I can't look until the morning
06:09 PM XXCoder: save link its nice video
06:10 PM jthornton: I did
06:11 PM XXCoder: https://www.startengine.com/raytonone is link
06:11 PM XXCoder: mostly text only
06:13 PM jthornton: hmm only used 0.1 GB of data today
06:13 PM jthornton: 1.1GB behind :(
06:16 PM XXCoder: sucks :(
06:16 PM XXCoder: on elio I just hope its successful
06:16 PM XXCoder: MANY people would want a cheap commute autocycle for work
06:17 PM jthornton: yea that would be cool if they can pull it off, but it takes a lot of money to build a car
06:17 PM XXCoder: yeah
06:17 PM XXCoder: $8k price is what they are trying for
06:17 PM jthornton: even $10k and high mileage it would sell like hot cakes
06:18 PM XXCoder: yep thats why I invested in it.
06:18 PM XXCoder: its far cheaper than decent used cars
06:18 PM andypugh: My umpressio is that the US market cares not a jot about fuel economy.
06:18 PM XXCoder: AND people who have broken down cars can get reliable car transit
06:18 PM andypugh: Which is why every car I saw in COlorado was a V6 or V8 pickup truck.
06:19 PM XXCoder: that aspect is double plus, bump off high pollution cars and replace it with high mpg
06:19 PM jthornton: I have two hondas that get 45mpg
06:19 PM jthornton: one does have two wheels lol
06:19 PM XXCoder: lol
06:20 PM jthornton: the honda insight sells real well actually and the basic model gets better mpg than the turning one we go
06:20 PM Jymm: andypugh: Hard to imagine a little car going thru 4ft of snow
06:21 PM andypugh: I expect the Ranger pickup that I borrow at the weekends to do 45mpg, and the Focus with the same engine does 65mpg. But the US won’t buy a puny 2,0L engine.
06:21 PM jthornton: actually hard to imagine any vehicle going through 4' of snow
06:22 PM XXCoder: yeah I would base decisons based on where I am too
06:22 PM XXCoder: if area I live at often gets 1' snows I would get a truck too
06:22 PM Jymm: andypugh: They stopped making rngers in the US, I THINK they just started back up this year. and it's NOT 45mpg, more like 24
06:22 PM jthornton: I have a 4 wheel drive pickup that gets 15 mpg but I only drive it when I need a pickup
06:22 PM Jymm: ranger's*
06:22 PM XXCoder: suppose I had elio I would use it most of year, when snowing trucks
06:23 PM andypugh: Jymm: Yes, because they only sell the V6 petrol engines in the US, not the turbo diesel.
06:23 PM jthornton: prob some cali emission crap
06:23 PM Jymm: jthornton: EPA in general, not just calif
06:23 PM andypugh: No, EU emissions laws are pretty much as strict.
06:24 PM andypugh: (I am being a bit disingenuous, you do have pitifuly small pints)
06:24 PM XXCoder: calfornia is actually more strict but only for vehicles bought IN state I recall. EPA have recently tried to remove state right to set more strict laws but dunno if it was successful.
06:24 PM jthornton: then it must be fat people that want lots of acceleration lol
06:24 PM Jymm: VW probably fucked up diesel stuff in th US
06:25 PM XXCoder: ?
06:25 PM Jymm: hang on
06:25 PM jthornton: they lied about the emissions or something like that
06:26 PM Jymm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
06:26 PM Jymm: YEah, they tricked the commputer to say it has less emissions than it really did
06:26 PM * jthornton watches chicken tv
06:26 PM XXCoder: yeah vw royally screwed up.
06:26 PM XXCoder: twice.
06:26 PM Jymm: twice?
06:26 PM XXCoder: tried to pin it on some engineer
06:27 PM Jymm: ah
06:27 PM jthornton: the golf diesel does get good mpg
06:28 PM Jymm: I think I want a hybrid
06:28 PM XXCoder: Jymm: yeah vw didnt reveal some more models had this same system of cheating
06:28 PM jthornton: the honda insight is a good one
06:28 PM XXCoder: they got caught again
06:29 PM Jymm: A friend hooked up a 2KW/4kw peak inverter to the preious and the engine started for like 2 minutes to recharge, then shut off . awesome for a generator
06:29 PM Jymm: jthornton: awd?
06:29 PM jthornton: no
06:31 PM Jymm: 4x4 or awd would be great. I gues the Rav4 hybrid is awd, but gets funny reviews
06:31 PM jthornton: andypugh, you can get a growler
06:31 PM andypugh: Eh?
06:31 PM Jymm: XXCoder: oh, nice =)
06:32 PM jthornton: if pints is referring to beer
06:32 PM Jymm: jthornton: you have the insight hybrid?
06:33 PM jthornton: yes
06:33 PM Jymm: jthornton: what year? any repairs?
06:33 PM jthornton: the touring one with all the sensors
06:33 PM jthornton: I think they started making them in 2019...
06:33 PM andypugh: My point is that the UK and US gallon are both 8 pints, but the pints are different, so we always get 20% more MPG (and more beer in our glasses)
06:34 PM jthornton: nice, a growler is 1/2 gallon\
06:34 PM jthornton: your pumps don't read in liters?
06:34 PM andypugh: I image that would go flat before I got to the bottom.
06:35 PM andypugh: jthornton: Yes, we buy fuel by the litre, but the road signs are in miles, and we use MPG for fuel economy.
06:35 PM jthornton: that would be a waste of beer
06:35 PM jthornton: ah cool
06:36 PM andypugh: miles per litre would be more sendible, and I do know that my R1 does 10 miles per litre.
06:36 PM jthornton: my spyder made in cunck land has some imperial and some metric fasteners which can be a pis
06:36 PM jthornton: a
06:36 PM jthornton: pia
06:36 PM andypugh: Eurpose seems to use litres/100km which is practical, I guess, though means that lower numbers are better.
06:37 PM jthornton: is that 10m/l in first gear?
06:37 PM andypugh: “Eurpose”? Where did that come from? “Europe” I mean
06:37 PM andypugh: 10 miles per litre is about 44mpg
06:37 PM jthornton: Southern Comfort is working...
06:38 PM andypugh: In some ways. I still feel diseased.
06:38 PM * jthornton goes to do a bed check on the hens
06:39 PM * Jymm wonder how jealous jthornton's wife is of the chickens?
06:39 PM CaptHindsight: cars here were going to smaller engines for a while
06:40 PM CaptHindsight: but lately it's been moving back to big
06:40 PM CaptHindsight: big burns more fuel
06:40 PM XXCoder: well keep in mind they can be legally killed and turned into few great dinners
06:40 PM Jymm: CaptHindsight: Yeah, what's up with that? AND nobody is making mid size trucks either, or stopped for a while
06:40 PM andypugh: XXCoder: Engines, wives or chickens?
06:40 PM CaptHindsight: you might have caught your virus here, US virus vs European virus
06:41 PM XXCoder: chickens, olviously :P
06:41 PM CaptHindsight: Jymm: Toyota still makes a smaller pickup
06:41 PM Jymm: andypugh: you forgot gators too
06:41 PM andypugh: Possible, though I didn’t get very close to anyone.
06:41 PM XXCoder: im ... concerned about your inability to think of which is legally ediable ;)
06:41 PM Jymm: CaptHindsight: Yeah, true,
06:41 PM andypugh: XXCoder: I am vegetarian, I have lost track of such things.
06:42 PM XXCoder: lol ok :p
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: the US cold virus has survived being on the moon
06:42 PM andypugh: Thoiugh I guess engines are _legally_ edible, and vegetarian.
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: it's grown and harvested in public school children
06:42 PM Jymm: and high in minerals
06:42 PM XXCoder: extremely so
06:44 PM andypugh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Lotito
06:45 PM jthornton: you ain't killing my pets
06:48 PM jthornton: 8 minutes till the door closes
06:48 PM XXCoder: lol
06:48 PM jthornton: yuck I need to clean the fly traps out tomorrow
06:48 PM XXCoder: yummy
06:49 PM jthornton: yuck they stink
06:49 PM andypugh: I have been caught in a fly trap a few times, when zipping up without due care.
06:49 PM jthornton: ouch
06:50 PM * jthornton only did that once
06:51 PM andypugh: That bad? My sympathies.
06:51 PM jthornton: bad enough to not do it again
06:51 PM jthornton: lol
06:52 PM andypugh: Ah. Not bad enough to be unable to do it again?
06:52 PM jthornton: possible but not probable
06:53 PM andypugh: Actually, I doubt it is possible really. Whilst a zip looks like a saw blade, there isn’t the requisite relative motion really.
06:53 PM jthornton: I'm trying to come up with a design for a sheet and dimensional lumber rack that fits on a 4' x 4' footprint
06:54 PM jthornton: I'm thinking sheets in the centre and dimensional stock on the sides with shelves for short
06:55 PM andypugh: I think I have concluded that an ideal materials rack is a unattainable goal.
06:56 PM andypugh: (This may be an attempt to excuse the clutter in my workshop)
06:57 PM jthornton: yea, that is my goal to remove some clutter with sheets stacked against the wall
06:57 PM jthornton: door down, hens locked up for the night... time for dinner
06:58 PM andypugh: Little bits of sheet seem to be my problem. The bits too big to throw away.
07:14 PM _unreal_: my cnc machines OVER all footprint is 21"x24", its sitting in an area where I could rebuild a larger version that would be upto 26x24" over all foot print. My current work area is 7.75x12. The bigger version thing I'm looking at I could have a work area of likely upto 20"x22"
07:14 PM * _unreal_ doesnt want to outdate his CNC but......
07:14 PM _unreal_: I do have a need for more work area
07:38 PM Jymm: jthornton: The inner racks for sheet material... Divide it into three sections, with the two outter ones with "flip down" shelves for short stock
07:41 PM Jymm: And the flip down shelves will help keep the full sheets from tipping over too
09:19 PM _unreal_: ok just finished doing some quick cad work for work