#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 08 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:29 AM taloot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVW1W-A73To we needd thiis
01:19 AM Deejay: moin
01:20 AM andypugh: Just popped in, and now popping out. (I am currently working Colorado time)
01:58 AM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/33459-linuxcnc-s-curve-accelerations?start=20
02:00 AM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/33236-linuxcnc-s-curve-acceleration-7176e?start=0
02:24 AM sensille: are there any endmills on aliexpress worth buying? (that are cheaper than locally sourced ones)
02:27 AM CaptHindsight: HSS crap likely
03:04 AM sensille: "carbide"
04:14 AM XXCoder: "tool"
04:28 AM XXCoder: man I hate broaching job
05:03 AM Tom_itx: morning
05:12 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
05:51 AM jthornton: morning
05:51 AM XXCoder: yo
06:11 AM jthornton: 46f
06:12 AM XXCoder: wed looks like coldest peak temperate yet at 49f
06:24 AM jthornton: we are still 75-80
06:25 AM XXCoder: that day will have 37f lowest heh fun
06:50 AM Elmo40: taloot, what setup do you have for running steppers with encoders?
06:53 AM Elmo40: taloot, they have some sort of s-curve feature in Marlin
07:44 AM methods_: https://qz.com/1205279/photo-of-an-atom-a-scientist-captured-an-incredible-photograph/
08:09 AM gregcnc: yay, as suspected the resolver in an asynchronous servo motor is only use for velocity feedback
10:47 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:59 AM JT-Shop: that's the fasted domain transfer I've seen yet, just a few hours from pressing the button
11:00 AM JT-Shop: I guess it will take a while before the dns servers update... anyone see created 2019 on gnipsel.com ?
11:01 AM Tom_L: no it's too small to read :)
11:01 AM Tom_L: still says 2009
11:01 AM Tom_L: ©2009 All Rights Reserved. • Design by JT
11:08 AM taloot: using a leadshine clone
11:08 AM taloot: called hbs57
11:08 AM taloot: hbs86h
11:10 AM taloot: much better than normal stepper in term of performance
11:11 AM taloot: also you can adjust PID for current and postiion
11:16 AM CaptHindsight: sensille: after having had a business in China all I can say is that nearly everything I have come across made there is sub-par, they just have a different work ethic than the west
11:16 AM taloot: if u deal with alibaba
11:17 AM taloot: yes i agree just waste of moeny
11:17 AM taloot: but taobao much better
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: I cringe when I see stories about their military tech, unless they are shooting people form crap I can't imagine any of their "advanced" to work reliably
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: form/for
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: the mindset there is business is to cut every corner and if you don't notice or care then "job well done"
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: they have no concept of the old world quality that people prided themselves in the west years ago
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: they come from the opposite extreme
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: how shitty can they make it before you care
11:21 AM gloops: lol
11:21 AM gloops: like the younger generations would even know shitty when they bought it
11:22 AM CaptHindsight: that is the other thing, the west has now gone thqat direction to train the young to accept crap as good
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: how often do you come across anything new made well anymore?
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: maybe some CNC machines, some military tech, high end watches, some medical devices...
11:30 AM CaptHindsight: taloot: depends on your frame of reference, like gloops mentions
11:30 AM T_F_Skywalker: One of the main reasons I try and find craftsman if I can to make me the things I really care about
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: getting harder to find around here
11:31 AM T_F_Skywalker: you just cant buy good quality items in mainstream consumer channels anymore.
11:31 AM T_F_Skywalker: just try and find a microwave that doesn't break in <3 years
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: yeah, I still have one running from 1990
11:32 AM T_F_Skywalker: It will be interesting to see if the EU durability laws have any positive affect
11:32 AM CaptHindsight: for some devices you just need to cool them properly for them to last many times longer
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: i think I kept my sons PS3 going for 10 years by adding fans and regular dust blasting
11:33 AM T_F_Skywalker: agreed, on the microwaves its been the door hinge failure long before the magic smoke lets out
11:33 AM T_F_Skywalker: but in general yes cooling is your friend
11:33 AM JT-Shop: Tom_L: right under about this place
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: they do make car bodies now better than they did in the 70's, coatings especially
11:36 AM CaptHindsight: 5 years used to be body life before you could look into the trunk without opening it
11:36 AM CaptHindsight: around here anyway
11:38 AM CaptHindsight: and 100K miles was new engine time
11:38 AM T_F_Skywalker: automitive stuff does seem to be getting better. Perhaps enough compition and regulation. However I do wonder about the "life time" sealed transmissions everyone seems to think are a good idea.
11:38 AM CaptHindsight: are they tied to the ECU and require some type of factory authorization to be swapped?
11:40 AM T_F_Skywalker: essentially they claim the fluid is good for the life of the car and offer no dipstick or easy fill port.
11:40 AM CaptHindsight: which auto brands use these?
11:40 AM T_F_Skywalker: and to make it even better if you read the fine manual, it states: life time fluid does not apply if you tow or idle for long periods.
11:40 AM T_F_Skywalker: so your left jurry rigging a setup to flush it every 20k
11:41 AM T_F_Skywalker: BMW, Toyota, I believe there are others.
11:41 AM T_F_Skywalker: I speak specifically of my Toyotas
11:41 AM T_F_Skywalker: So I end up under my tundra every 20k doing a make shift flush
11:41 AM CaptHindsight: I use to only drive 1973 and earlier
11:41 AM CaptHindsight: now it's 1995
11:42 AM T_F_Skywalker: not a bad plan, if i could find a FJ60 from 80-84 in good shape I could affoard I'd be all over it.
11:42 AM CaptHindsight: my cars last for decades, Land Cruisers especially
11:43 AM T_F_Skywalker: I wonder how well the plastics hold up after 30 years. From UV, ozone, etc...
11:43 AM CaptHindsight: somebody here has restored one, he was going to make repro parts as well
11:43 AM CaptHindsight: UV is the real killer
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: additive makes this so much easier now
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: SLS for plastic parts
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: SLA sand cast for engine parts
11:45 AM CaptHindsight: not a long term market with cars moving to electric and self driving
11:45 AM T_F_Skywalker: small batch and one off parts are getting very obtainable for the avg joe
11:48 AM CaptHindsight: I expect the future electric vehicles to be very well planned for obsolescence
11:48 AM gregcnc: programmed in
11:49 AM CaptHindsight: yes, like inkjets
11:49 AM gregcnc: you don't need this car anymore....
11:50 AM CaptHindsight: and self driving will likely go be a service industry
11:50 AM CaptHindsight: you pay per ride vs own
11:50 AM gregcnc: i just saw some blurb about how 5G is supposed to allow truck drivers to drive remotely from a "safe" location
11:50 AM CaptHindsight: then they will make them more reliable
11:51 AM CaptHindsight: drone trucks
11:51 AM CaptHindsight: nice, what could go wrong
11:53 AM gregcnc: imagine a fastener were the driver is a milled slot in a socket. wtf standard is that?
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: I was looking at a set of security fastener drivers
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: think there were ~100 tips
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: they are going to run out of options soon for heads under 10mm
11:54 AM gregcnc: curiosity had me searching, but I couldn't find anything like it
11:55 AM CaptHindsight: have a pic?
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.harborfreight.com/100-pc-security-bit-set-with-case-62657.html?_br_psugg_q=security+bit+set
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: made of the softest metals we could muster, good for at least 2-3 turns of the bit
11:59 AM gregcnc: https://imgur.com/AZ6NzvV
12:07 PM CaptHindsight: I guess to circle back to cheap Chinese anything...
12:08 PM CaptHindsight: people are attracted to low cost items since they don't have much to spend since the middle class is shrinking and has less income
12:09 PM CaptHindsight: they have also been trained to accept poor quality goods
12:12 PM CaptHindsight: they are willing to gamble saving a few $$ in the hopes to save a few $$ and end up with something useful
12:13 PM CaptHindsight: that's been my view of buying in China, it's a gamble, you just don't want to end up with a reject that they never toss out
12:13 PM gregcnc: how else will china make money?
12:15 PM gregcnc: 3d printing a car? https://www.youtube.com/user/lasersterling/videos
12:15 PM t4nk-freenode: well, you can't force the american dream upon us.. why would we get ripped off at 60x higher prices.. for the same crap anyhow?
12:16 PM gregcnc: That's the worst part. some importer sells the same garbage for stupid prices
12:16 PM t4nk-freenode: yes, not 'some'.. it's the american dream.. they all do it
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: well Branding
12:16 PM t4nk-freenode: well,.. let's say.. 'the capitalist's dream'
12:17 PM CaptHindsight: branding is magic
12:17 PM CaptHindsight: Apple anything
12:18 PM t4nk-freenode: we have a chain of stores.. 'Action' .. the stores are full of real horrible cheap produce, and I aint kidding; most of the time the things you buy don't even make it to the cash register in one piece
12:18 PM gregcnc: but apple is even decent, it's the crap store shelves are filled with that sucks
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: yes, you have to look for anything quality now
12:19 PM t4nk-freenode: 6 lighters for 70cts... honest to god, they make em such that they fall apart immediately, I am Not kidding, had to throw em all away
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: I don't much mall shopping
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: since it's every few years i really see the changes
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: the malls here remind me of malls in China now
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: it's all about branding
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: people can't judge anything on its quality
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: they only see the labels and price
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: outlet malls are a joke
12:22 PM t4nk-freenode: exactly, and it all started when the 'production process improved'; meaning they could imitate stuff better, it used to be that molding plastic and such was hard to do but now it's easy
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: I'm going to pivot this discussion to production and automation
12:23 PM gregcnc: well molding something is easy, but molding a good part still takes effort
12:23 PM t4nk-freenode: it's those damned cnc machines I tell you!!
12:23 PM gregcnc: i have to work on the mill and make a driver for that bolt
12:23 PM CaptHindsight: why the fuck is everyone letting the top[ 1% get away with getting most of the benefits from this?
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: efficiency is way up
12:24 PM gregcnc: invest to retire, those who manage investments and the comapnyies make it happen
12:25 PM gregcnc: why shouldn't a CEO make a years wage in a day?
12:25 PM CaptHindsight: it still amazes me that they have done such a good job of training the poor to support benefits for the rich
12:25 PM gregcnc: marketing and human nature
12:25 PM CaptHindsight: great psych ops
12:26 PM CaptHindsight: evil genius
12:26 PM t4nk-freenode: I think it's human greed and heartlessness... if I can have it so that I can buy one bread more compared to you.. by doing the 1%'s bidding... I'll kill for it.. and I'll kill in the 99% field.
12:27 PM t4nk-freenode: or otherwise; they are too stupid to realise that they'll never become of the 1%... and keep voting as if they were
12:27 PM gregcnc: https://www.frontpagelive.com/2019/09/14/jeff-bezos-cuts-health-benefits-for-nearly-2000-whole-foods-workers/#0
12:27 PM t4nk-freenode: and so the top does its job so damned well
12:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.wired.com/story/why-are-rich-people-so-mean/?itm_campaign=BottomRelatedStories_Sections_2
12:28 PM t4nk-freenode: minimum wage is disappearing too ;)
12:28 PM CaptHindsight: Call it Rich Asshole Syndrome—the tendency to distance yourself from people with whom you have a large wealth differential.
12:28 PM t4nk-freenode: and, I can't wait for this myself; voting should be restricted to the top 1% ;)
12:28 PM gregcnc: "surround yourself by those who you want to be like"
12:28 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, only those that matter
12:29 PM CaptHindsight: t4nk-freenode: well it's really been that way for quite some time here
12:30 PM t4nk-freenode: and in the mean time, they want you to focus on the stuff that really matters; those damned MEXICANS are to blame... let's kill em all! (like I read in this very chan even)
12:30 PM CaptHindsight: the last presidential election with a decent candidate was Eisenhower and maybe Carter
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: why is it always the lesser over the evils
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: and nobody that's actually good or better
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: over/of
12:32 PM t4nk-freenode: I really haven't been following, but take 'the president' .. what got him there? money, and wrong politics... if you have billions to spend you can buy the world
12:34 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkcKQmr7kRc sums up how people around here behave
12:35 PM CaptHindsight: The Man With Two Brains -- just give me a sign
12:36 PM t4nk-freenode: lol.. well .. that was uncanny; it's just how I am
12:36 PM jym: CaptHindsight: how so?
12:37 PM CaptHindsight: jym: the other one is the hooker scene from the same film "I want to inject you with windows cleaner since it makes your brain die last" "I don't mind"
12:38 PM jym: D you think this would work outdoors? https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.amazon.com/Leisure-Upgraded-Portable-Projector-Compatible/dp/B078KF8CSX/
12:38 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Oh yeah, I remember the window cleaner killer thing
12:39 PM CaptHindsight: jym: I was tempted to try one f those from Walmart since it would be an easy return
12:39 PM jym: CaptHindsight: they have the eXACT same one at walmart?
12:40 PM CaptHindsight: 800*480 native res
12:40 PM CaptHindsight: so it uses the older TI DLP tech
12:40 PM CaptHindsight: and a new white LED array
12:41 PM CaptHindsight: Price: $79.99 & FREE Shipping. Details & FREE Returns
12:41 PM t4nk-freenode: yeh, 800 is pretty bad
12:41 PM CaptHindsight: I say "go try it"
12:41 PM t4nk-freenode: but 79$ isn't bad either
12:41 PM CaptHindsight: I'm modding the 4K DLP projectors now
12:41 PM jym: With 4 days of blackouts coming, if it worked outdoors, I was thinking of watching movies on the wall behind the drug store, and may offer popcorn for donations
12:42 PM t4nk-freenode: maybe the v600sr would be better, but it's $250
12:42 PM CaptHindsight: but they are $1700 new, $1300 for a refurb
12:42 PM CaptHindsight: heh fun
12:42 PM CaptHindsight: worth it just for the fun and community
12:42 PM t4nk-freenode: I have a hard time believing those 'lux' values though
12:43 PM jym: Yeah, sonce not everyone will have power, much less access to movies.
12:43 PM CaptHindsight: hope you don't get a lemon
12:43 PM CaptHindsight: really idea unless you live in a community of serial killers
12:43 PM jym: Well, there won't be ANY lights other than head and flash lights
12:43 PM CaptHindsight: really good
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: "go to the light"
12:44 PM jym: Eh, we all have guns around here, bears and mnt lions
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: oh my
12:44 PM jym: I just would hate to disapint folks if that projector REALLY sucked
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: 800 x 480
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: if it's really dark there
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: it could work
12:46 PM jym: CaptHindsight: you keep saying the resolution, I'm not expecting 4K, just if it will be visable
12:46 PM CaptHindsight: I'd definitely try before advertising
12:46 PM jym: They have videos if it being used on amazon
12:46 PM t4nk-freenode: branding says 'vankyo'.. not 'GM' ;)
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: 2400 LUX on maybe a 6-8 ft screen
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: so if you were try to project a garage door size movie it might be a little fuzzy and dim
12:48 PM jym: I know 6ft aint much, but better than sitting in the dark at home with nothing
12:48 PM jym: everyone can just cozy up
12:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.amazon.com/Projector-Carrying-Portable-Supports-Compatible/dp/B07D467KPD/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
12:48 PM CaptHindsight: $99 and more LUX
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: get one, try it, sell it afterwards
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: you might make some new friends so it's worth it
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: you'll be jym the AV guy and entertainment director
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: gotta run, lunch
12:50 PM t4nk-freenode: ok, and another thing I really detest; .... advertising a '1080p' projector.. but not mentioning the native resolution is 800.. that's scamming people. Strawberries: 1$ ***
12:51 PM t4nk-freenode: *** $1 for the first two strawberries, a piece, after that it is 6$ per half a berry
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, they advertise the range of input formats not the actual native output
12:51 PM t4nk-freenode: (****freshness not guaranteed)
12:51 PM t4nk-freenode: that is the way people treat each other
12:51 PM t4nk-freenode: I don't like it.. okidoki, off to do some chores
12:52 PM CaptHindsight: well you don't want to be "some sort of fag"
12:52 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCIo4MCO-_U
12:53 PM t4nk-freenode: I liked that movie.. it's horrible but brilliant in a lot of ways
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: yes and yes
12:53 PM t4nk-freenode: the reality described there.. was already a fact long before
12:53 PM t4nk-freenode: exactly how the world is
12:55 PM t4nk-freenode: I like the actor too, with his 'head like a peanut', he has a natural gift for playing idiots
12:55 PM t4nk-freenode: he was in the x-files too
12:57 PM drdoc: well foo.
12:57 PM drdoc: Debian Wheezy & LCNC 2.7 < 3500ns
12:58 PM drdoc: Wheezy + LCNC 2.8 > 7500ns
12:59 PM drdoc: same machine configuration, same preempt_rt kernel
01:00 PM * drdoc considers running the Y motors in parallel
01:11 PM Loetmichel: *done designing* -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17553&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 Now the suppliers have to quote the nearly 8m^2 18mm marine plywood cut ready to assemble. that will NOT be cheap :-)
01:16 PM SpeedEvil: how many bits?
01:17 PM SpeedEvil: Or do you just mean the box
01:19 PM jym: Loetmichel: WTH is that shit?!
01:20 PM jym: Loetmichel: No power, no videos, no music, no beer?!
01:21 PM Loetmichel: jym: my new CNC mill "box" for the company
01:21 PM Loetmichel: actually i need two
01:22 PM Loetmichel: so that the workshop will stay a little less "glittery"
01:25 PM jym: Loetmichel: ah, but wheres' the beer?
01:25 PM Loetmichel: who needs beer?
01:26 PM Loetmichel: hrhr
01:26 PM Loetmichel: why do you think i love beer?
01:26 PM jym: Loetmichel: Why do you think you don't?
01:27 PM Loetmichel: because i drank my last beer about a year ago
01:27 PM jym: Tacos and Beer!!!
01:27 PM jym: ah ok
01:27 PM Loetmichel: not because i dont like it, just had no opertunity
01:27 PM Loetmichel: and no "need"
01:27 PM Loetmichel: if you know what i mean
01:28 PM jym: Loetmichel: No worries, just giving you a hard time is all =)
01:28 PM Loetmichel: hardly a hard time.
01:28 PM Loetmichel: its just funny
01:29 PM jym: Gonna see if my Eu2000i generator can make popcorn in the little microwave I have
01:29 PM jym: I never realize how hard microwaves are on generators
01:30 PM Loetmichel: i was in a "trinksportverein "Gambrinus"e.V." (drinking club 'Gambrinus') back in my youth... moved out of the shared flat where the beer cooler tap was in the living room: went from about 100 eur beer a month to 0 eur in an instant
01:30 PM jym: LMAO
01:30 PM Loetmichel: had a beer here and there while in a restaurant but nothing more ever since
01:31 PM jym: Tacos and beer are always a good thing =)
01:32 PM Loetmichel: hmm. 2000W genset?
01:32 PM Loetmichel: how much power does the MW need?
01:32 PM jym: peak
01:32 PM jym: it's only 750W, but the inrush is massive!
01:32 PM Loetmichel: hould work if its less than 80% of the nominal power of the genset
01:32 PM Loetmichel: yes, its a big fat transformer
01:33 PM jym: likes to pop the circuit breaker, even on the 4000W generator
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: drdoc: same kernel version?
01:34 PM Loetmichel: hrhr
01:34 PM Loetmichel: my ex company had a little pallet sized 17kVA diesel genset
01:35 PM Loetmichel: half a ton of steel, copper and soundproofing...
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: drdoc: try it a few more times, LCNC version has far less effect on latency than kernel versions
01:35 PM jym: Well, I can carry this gen with one hand
01:35 PM Loetmichel: made that thing jump up a foot or so by swtiching a 20kW halogen lights (cold) onto the idling genset ;)
01:35 PM Loetmichel: the fuses held though ;)
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: jym: have you seen Loetmichel's hands, they are rated for 200 ft/lbs with just two fingers :)
01:37 PM JT-Shop: anyone done any polycarbonate thermoforming?
01:37 PM jym: CaptHindsight: lol
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: 200ft-lb= 271.1636Nm
01:37 PM jym: JT-Shop thickness?
01:37 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: na, i need at least a little 1/4" drive ratchet to do that onehanded ;)
01:38 PM Loetmichel: JT-Shop: thin stuff: yes
01:38 PM JT-Shop: 040" to 060" I guess
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: vacuum or just heat and bend on mandrel?
01:38 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4630
01:38 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4633
01:38 PM jym: JT-Shop windshield?
01:38 PM JT-Shop: thinking vacuum, as I have one or two
01:38 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4636
01:38 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4642
01:39 PM JT-Shop: air filter cover
01:39 PM Loetmichel: works ;)
01:39 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: I hope you also watch Silicon Valley. I think it's some of Mike Judge's best work.
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: certainly, sad to see it's going to be the final season
01:40 PM JT-Shop: Loetmichel: what thickness is that?
01:40 PM Loetmichel: 1mm
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: idiocarcy should be a public service announcement for not how to do things, like SchoolHouse Rock in the 70's
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: Idiocracy even
01:41 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: Use better while and make it a solid concrete block. It'll improve rigidity.
01:41 PM JT-Shop: Loetmichel: thanks
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBBTF0Wg7dY No More King! (Schoolhouse Rock!)
01:43 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: could you rephrase that a bit more understandable?
01:43 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: I meant use better *wheels*.
01:44 PM Loetmichel: ahem. i NEED that room under the CNC
01:45 PM Loetmichel: thats how it looks now: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17088
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: if you need a bunch of polycarbonate https://www.alro.com/divplastics/plasticsproduct_polycarbonate.aspx
01:46 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: So something like this then? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d0/cb/f4/d0cbf4cc7d544cc191afafb9ef9f93bd.jpg
01:46 PM Loetmichel: under the CNC is the PC, the Stepper driver, keyboard and mouse, the cooling and in the new box there will also be the shopvac for the vacuum table
01:46 PM Loetmichel: i have no room for that in the workshop
01:46 PM Loetmichel: its tiny ;)
01:46 PM Loetmichel: and i have to fit in TWO of these CNC 6040
01:47 PM FinboySlick: You can probably put both on that one though.
01:50 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: stacked? ,)
01:50 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: It's about 5m wide.
01:50 PM Loetmichel: ah, you meant that culvert?
01:51 PM FinboySlick: Yes.
01:51 PM Loetmichel: it wouldnt even fit in the workshop ;)
01:51 PM FinboySlick: Details. It'd be sturdy and that's all that matters.
01:52 PM Loetmichel: i doubt that it would matter
01:52 PM Loetmichel: CNC 6040 are not known for being rigid at all ;)
01:52 PM Loetmichel: so the sturdy mount does nothing if the machine wobbles around ;)
01:54 PM drdoc: CaptHindsight: same kernel, and I misspoke
01:55 PM drdoc: this is on the Stretch uspace install
01:56 PM drdoc: installed from the LiveCD, ran latency-test for 16+ hours for max Base jitter of 3390ns
01:57 PM drdoc: added the 2.8 repo to sources.list, installed 2.8 via apt, and ran latency-test with the same stress scripts
01:58 PM drdoc: gets up to 6000ns in a few minutes and over 7k within a couple of hours.
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: go back and forth a few times, it will change again :)
02:00 PM drdoc: heh.
02:00 PM drdoc: granted, that's probably still faster than my router will need to run
02:01 PM drdoc: but that 3400ns is reproducible
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: the spooky part is that the very first test on new hardware is generally the worst latency, evern if you swap drives or boot from a flash drive
02:01 PM drdoc: yes
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: it's like it knows :)
02:02 PM drdoc: I've tested both versions right after booting, after running other stuff for awhile, reset stats and not rest stats, etc
02:03 PM drdoc: I did unix performance testing and tuning professionally in a former life
02:04 PM drdoc: so I'm fairly careful about coherent & consistent environment
02:05 PM drdoc: BTW the most commonly effective performance tuning is "don't jack with it"
02:05 PM drdoc: :-)
02:08 PM drdoc: anyhow, I'm very open to suggestions
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: thats about it https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI/blob/master/README.BIOS
02:09 PM drdoc: that applies to the preempt_rt setup?
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI/blob/master/README.ISOLCPUS
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: yes
02:10 PM drdoc: ok, cool, thanks
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: RTAI and premmpt_rt and xenomai
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: they all have to deal with the same hardware issues interfering with latency
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: when CPU's change clock speed there are always delays
02:11 PM drdoc: how effective is interrupt affinity tuning?
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: depends on hardware and hpw broken the BIOS/UEFI is
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: hpw/how
02:13 PM drdoc: it's a Gigabyte motherboard with overclock settings, so it does provide a lot of the settings this needs
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: BIOS is typically broken unless there is a coreboot port or quality hardware
02:13 PM drdoc: whether those actually work remains to be seen
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: the maniboard devs need to have gotten lucky with crap BIOS source and actually tested everything
02:14 PM jym: HEY! I made popcorn =) Worked nicely even in econo mode =)
02:14 PM drdoc: Gigabyte has been my goto for FrankenMacs for a long time, precisely because their BIOS/UEFI environments are pretty stable
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: you don't want any over or underclocking going on while the CPU is running a kernel
02:14 PM drdoc: right
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: the cpu and chipset should remain at one constant clock rate
02:15 PM jym: 10KHz
02:15 PM jym: with a K
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: keeps the power down
02:15 PM drdoc: and the OC settings let me constrain clock-speed and multiplier where I want them
02:17 PM drdoc: so, as far as is possible, power management is turned off in both BIOS and Linux
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: methods_: thats a really really big atom :)
02:18 PM drdoc: lm-sensors and hddtemp, etc are disabled, as well as screensavers & blanking
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: pretty much the limit of todays display tech, one atom per pixel
02:19 PM drdoc: like I said, it's set up well enough to stay well under 4 uSec for 16 hours
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: until you watch a youtube while milling :)
02:20 PM drdoc: oh yeah
02:20 PM drdoc: youtube is a killer
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: it's tjhe worst thing we ever found to throw at a real time kernel
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: flash in FF was another
02:21 PM drdoc: that's with "dd if=/dev/urandom of=~/bigfile count=4096000 && dd if=!/bigfile of=/dev/null bs=64" running in a while true loop
02:21 PM drdoc: and 6 glxgears
02:22 PM drdoc: ack
02:22 PM drdoc: that second dd is still "~/bigfile"
02:22 PM drdoc: enough to keep load average aroud 1.5-2.0
02:23 PM jym: did someone say hackintosh?
02:23 PM drdoc: yes
02:23 PM jym: drdoc: which osx?
02:24 PM drdoc: my stinkpads are all on 10.13 and this box is on 10.14, which was a bad choice
02:24 PM drdoc: Mojave is *still* not ready for prime time
02:24 PM jym: drdoc: Are you able to use timemachien to restore from a blank hdd?
02:25 PM drdoc: I don't think you can do that from a real mac...
02:25 PM drdoc: ;-)
02:25 PM jym: drdoc: Yeah I can =)
02:25 PM drdoc: restore from a blank drive?
02:25 PM jym: TO
02:25 PM drdoc: ah
02:26 PM drdoc: I use CCC, so I wouldn't know
02:26 PM jym: ah
02:26 PM jym: TM is my only resason FOR mac's
02:27 PM drdoc: I admit that with windows 10, MS is getting way closer to usable
02:27 PM jym: used to be target mode too, but not so much anymore.
02:27 PM drdoc: but I'm still more comfortable in OSX
02:28 PM jym: I wouldn't know about M$ these days.
02:28 PM drdoc: they're getting better
02:29 PM jym: Oh, so you don't have to reboot multiple times during an install or update?
02:29 PM drdoc: no, actually
02:29 PM jym: I call bullshit =)
02:30 PM drdoc: heh
02:30 PM jym: Wtih TM I get my os, apps, and data back hands off. TYVM
02:31 PM drdoc: the worst thing about Win10 is that you have to work at not getting updated in the middle of what you thought you were doing
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: we have hacked versions of win10 without features chopped out
02:31 PM jym: and malware, and viruses, etc
02:32 PM drdoc: I use rsync for home directory and CCC for OS
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: it doesn't interrupt you anymore but it still gets some malware or virus after a month or two
02:33 PM drdoc: CaptHindsight: If I leave it running overnight a couple times a month, updates happen under the covers
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: you have to kill or remove services to keep the updates from happeneing but the m,aiware still eventually gets through
02:33 PM drdoc: and I've had *very* good luck with Avast AV
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: malware
02:33 PM jym: CaptHindsight: So delayed annouyances =)
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: yeah about as good as win10 gets
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: i have win7 running on my CAD box
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: it hasn't been connected to the interwebs in 3+ years
02:34 PM drdoc: also, doing all my surfing & email in OSX probably helps with the malware problem
02:34 PM drdoc: ;-)
02:34 PM t4nk-freenode: you wont even notice it ;)
02:34 PM jym: CaptHindsight: VM's FTW
02:35 PM drdoc: urgh
02:35 PM drdoc: What's a playstaion 2 worth these days?
02:36 PM t4nk-freenode: heheh... makes you owe $10?
02:36 PM drdoc: hrmm
02:37 PM drdoc: Ebay "Sold Items" sez $40
02:37 PM gloops: better off keeping it another 20 years
02:38 PM t4nk-freenode: cant imagine anyone wanting one, xcept ,aybe a collector
02:39 PM drdoc: gloops: I need the space
02:40 PM drdoc: I just dug out a carton with 2 PS2 setups, a Nintendo 64, and a Newton Messagepad 2000
02:41 PM drdoc: holy crap
02:42 PM drdoc: the Newton's worth a couple hundred bucks
03:59 PM Deejay: gn8
04:12 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop?
04:21 PM JT-Shop: yo
04:21 PM Tom_L: i posted it in the wrong window. check hazzy
04:55 PM jthornton: Tom_L, looks to be the same in debian 10
05:03 PM Tom_L: cool
05:03 PM Tom_L: i wonder if it's desktop dependent
05:05 PM jthornton: dunno
05:27 PM CaptHindsight: anyone else having delivery issues with amazon, you pay for next day by 8pm and then at 5pm the next day they say 3-4 more days
05:28 PM jym: CaptHindsight: No, but i never do next day, unless free
05:29 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Is it already in transit, or sitting in their warehouse?
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: works stuff
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: suddenly 20 minutes ago I get tracking info
05:29 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Is it already in transit, or sitting in their warehouse?
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: after all day " delivery today by 8pm"
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: who knows
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: it's all missinfo
05:30 PM jym: what does the rackign say?
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: I even get tracking numbers when I call Fedex?UPS even they don't know what the fuck is going on
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: shipped from California, yet shows an exception in Boston,Ma
05:31 PM jym: I've seen that "exception" before, but I still don't know what it means
05:31 PM jym: call amazon and ask?
05:31 PM jym: since it sounds like it's a repeated issue
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: I think the scammers have figured out how to game amazon by offering next day and delivering in 3-5
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: by claiming some sort of delivery exception or delay
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: without details
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: since the profit can be in next day fees vs free shipping
05:32 PM jym: But if you call they'll reverse the fees
05:33 PM jym: and if it's the same seller, they'll have complaint on file
06:32 PM gregcnc: another new to me, taper lock using two taper rings that fit into each other
06:39 PM gregcnc: found them. I guess if the clamp is off the only thing to do is pull? http://duri.at/Metalle/Spannelement-det.353003020.html
07:46 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, spying on me ;)
08:09 PM gregcnc: they say those taper rings should self release. No luck getting the pulley off the shaft. Both motor bearings are bad.
08:16 PM _unreal_: ?
08:17 PM gregcnc: http://www.ringfeder.com/en/international/download/download/ringfeder/instructions-locking-elements/
08:17 PM gregcnc: I'm working on a spindle motor
08:19 PM _unreal_: are those taper rings any kind of bearing?
08:19 PM _unreal_: or are they locking/alignment systems?
08:19 PM gregcnc: locking
08:19 PM _unreal_: AHHH ok
08:19 PM gregcnc: secures a pulley to the shaft in this case
08:19 PM _unreal_: so then you need a puller OR you need a wooden mallet to give some love tapping to release them
08:21 PM gregcnc: I only have a shite puller, but I think I forgot to try the deal blow
08:21 PM _unreal_: deal blow?
08:21 PM _unreal_: what is there is no deal
08:21 PM _unreal_: lol
08:21 PM gregcnc: dead blow
08:22 PM gregcnc: the lead mallet could be more persuasive
08:30 PM gregcnc: well dang one of the rings did fall out. I just need a better puller
09:25 PM pink_vampire: hi
09:48 PM CaptTactful: hi all. still trying to configure my 2nd parport for switch inputs to lcnc
09:48 PM CaptTactful: anybody successfully do this?
09:52 PM pink_vampire: yes
09:52 PM pink_vampire: CaptTactful: ^
09:54 PM CaptTactful: were you able to teat the connection on the HAL port tester?
09:54 PM CaptTactful: test
09:54 PM pink_vampire: I'm not next to the cnc computer
09:54 PM pink_vampire: one sec
09:54 PM CaptTactful: I was directed to this program but have not been able to get it working.
09:54 PM CaptTactful: ok
09:55 PM pink_vampire: the IRC is on my desktop computer not on my phone
09:56 PM CaptTactful: gotcha, wonder what kind of latency a phone would have...
09:56 PM CaptTactful: maybe next gen iphone will have dual parallel ports for milling.
09:57 PM CaptTactful: just saying
09:57 PM CaptTactful: it could
09:57 PM pink_vampire: ok, go to Machine > Show Hal configuration
09:58 PM CaptTactful: 1 min
09:58 PM CaptTactful: chatting on laptop and lcnc on desktop next to it
09:59 PM CaptTactful: ok
09:59 PM CaptTactful: im there
10:01 PM pink_vampire: in the tree look for "Pins"
10:01 PM CaptTactful: k
10:01 PM pink_vampire: then look for "paraport"
10:01 PM CaptTactful: k
10:01 PM pink_vampire: you need to see 0 and also 1
10:02 PM CaptTactful: k
10:02 PM pink_vampire: if your settings in the hal file are correct
10:02 PM pink_vampire: see PM
10:03 PM CaptTactful: under parport i get 4 options to expand to: 0, write-all, read-all, 1
10:03 PM pink_vampire: click on 1
10:03 PM CaptTactful: k
10:04 PM pink_vampire: this is your 2nd parport
10:04 PM CaptTactful: yup
10:04 PM CaptTactful: all correct
10:05 PM pink_vampire: on the right side click on the tab "watch" and then click on the pin in the tree that you want to test
10:06 PM pink_vampire: you should get something like "virtual led"
10:06 PM CaptTactful: yup. red or yellow
10:07 PM CaptTactful: trying pin 2 in and in-not
10:07 PM CaptTactful: keeps alternating from in to in-not
10:08 PM pink_vampire: in-not I think is like a virtual pin
10:08 PM CaptTactful: ok
10:08 PM pink_vampire: but I'm not sure
10:09 PM CaptTactful: reset HAL config watch screen to just pin 2 in
10:09 PM CaptTactful: still alternating from yellow to red and back
10:09 PM CaptTactful: odd. like its in a loop
10:10 PM CaptTactful: approx every 6 secs
10:10 PM CaptTactful: my pareport 2 is connected to a db25 cable i cut the other end off
10:11 PM CaptTactful: i tested each wire to its numerical pin
10:11 PM CaptTactful: wired it to a breakout board
10:11 PM CaptTactful: this is so my sensors can plugin via cat3 jacks
10:11 PM pink_vampire: did you saw my privet message?
10:12 PM CaptTactful: no
10:12 PM CaptTactful: sorry. how?
11:12 PM taloot: morining