#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 02 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM drdoc: some of the older drawing tablets are painful to use at HD or better
12:05 AM drdoc: ugh
12:05 AM drdoc: I don't know why dpkg is doing this:
12:05 AM drdoc: linux-image-4.14.134-rtai-amd64_4.14.134-rtai-amd64-2_amd64.deb
12:05 AM drdoc: but hey, it installs...
12:17 AM _unreal_: omg my computer just froze up hard
12:17 AM _unreal_: bed time
12:20 AM andypugh: drdoc: Building your own kernel?
01:44 AM Loetmichel: bah, i am really driving on autopilot on my morning commute... third time now that i drive on the highway, ask myself why the ones in front of me slow down, start to overtake just to be stopped by the pylons that block the left lane :-( Seems my brain hasnt got the "there is a construction site now" yet.
01:59 AM Deejay: moin
02:11 AM Loetmichel: hmm, any idea if a debian wheezy based linuxCNC (2,4?) Stepconf wizard-File can be imported into a recent LinuxCNC live CD install?
02:11 AM Loetmichel: before i start to upgrade my machine i would really like to NOT do the config again ;)
03:00 AM ehrenreich: hi, is there a feature in LinuxCNC to plane the table? I mean the table size is already configured in LinuxCNC.
03:03 AM Loetmichel: ehrenreich: you mean "face off"?
03:03 AM Loetmichel: thats not hard to write a macro for, that does a zigzag in both directions
03:03 AM Loetmichel: and to my knowledge there is no builtin funtion for that
03:05 AM drdoc: heh
03:05 AM drdoc: I have a script for that, when I put that laptop back together
03:06 AM drdoc: echo X15
03:07 AM drdoc: bash shell math lets you run a loop that increments one axis and switches the other from positive to negative
03:08 AM drdoc: find the Z you want, set that, and set origin and speeds, then run the loop for the zigzag
04:19 AM ehrenreich: Great thanks
04:19 AM ehrenreich: yes face off was maybe the "right" term
04:19 AM ehrenreich: :)
04:23 AM Loetmichel: ahem: gcode on linuxCNC can do math
04:23 AM Loetmichel: and loops
04:24 AM Loetmichel: its not that hard to write a "pocket" macro that takes wide and lenght and depth of cut and then moves according to the witdh of the mill bit across the mounting surface
05:11 AM Loetmichel: maaan, its more work to recreate the CNC 6040 router in the CAD so i dont collide with anything than to design the enclosure that will be around it... *fiddle, measure, click* -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17550&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:30 AM Tom_L: i bet grabcad had one
05:30 AM ehrenreich: found this - https://github.com/LinuxCNC/simple-gcode-generators
05:30 AM ehrenreich: could be usefull
05:31 AM XXCoder: mab been a while
05:31 AM XXCoder: yeah though forgot how to access and use those.
05:32 AM CNC_Brian: !s Yellowstone.2018.S02E05
05:32 AM XXCoder: ?
05:32 AM Tom_L: it's his secret password
05:32 AM Tom_L: shhh
05:33 AM * XXCoder logins and changes random stuff
05:33 AM * Deejay giggles
06:35 AM miss0r2: g'day
06:52 AM jthornton: yo
06:53 AM XXCoder: hey
07:01 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: looekd more like him usung the wrong channel
07:01 AM XXCoder: yeah likely
07:02 AM Loetmichel: would be a typical command to a bot to search for a movie/series on a warez schannel
07:02 AM Loetmichel: channel
07:02 AM Loetmichel: *not that i know how that works from experience... nonoooo! :)
07:03 AM XXCoder: lol
07:04 AM XXCoder: Loetmichel: enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8
07:04 AM XXCoder: too many cooks heh
07:04 AM XXCoder: background story on that video is also quite interesting
07:07 AM XXCoder: ph man forgot how annoying 5:50 is
07:12 AM XXCoder: so basically there was a free day in shooting schelude. they couldnt fill it. so someone had this weird idea
07:13 AM XXCoder: but they have to have massive planning since its only ONE day of shooting.
07:13 AM XXCoder: but they had a year to plan for so they did it
09:11 AM _abc_: Hi. What's the Dremel tool "shank" size in fractional inches? Does anyone know? In mm it's 2.3 to 2.35 mm
09:22 AM Loetmichel: _abc_: 3/32
09:23 AM _abc_: Yes I found it before in ##electronics after everyone said it's non standard :)
09:23 AM _abc_: thanks Loetmichel
10:28 AM Rab: Huh...I was under the impression that Dremel used a few different collets, and that the majority of tooling used an 1/8" shank. A cursory survey of Dremel tooling on hand seems to bear that out.
10:29 AM Loetmichel: Rab: a lot of the small tooling uses 3/32 shanks
10:29 AM Rab: There's 3/32" tooling too, seems like mostly grinding burs.
10:29 AM Loetmichel: the rest uses 1/8
10:29 AM Loetmichel: indeed
11:02 AM drdoc: are any of the current Dremel models good for high-ish duty cycles?
11:03 AM drdoc: I am apparently pretty hard on them
11:05 AM jthornton: drdoc, did you get RTAI going? I built it this morning but it has an issue booting
11:07 AM jym: Morning folks
11:10 AM esoren: I am trying to setup a 3-axis mill using LinuxCNC and a Mesa 7176e. I've been through pncconf to generate a config. When I try to jog X,Y,or Z I see the DIR signal on the 7i76e board change, but I don't get any activity on the step pins.
11:10 AM esoren: Here is my config: https://pastebin.com/eSFprEcA
11:12 AM esoren: A little more background info: I am running the steppers open-loop (no encoder feedback) and I don't have endstops installed yet. I unchecked the box in pncconf which requires homing before axis movement.
11:13 AM jthornton: that shouldn't matter
11:13 AM jthornton: pncconf does a good job of making a configuration, what stepper drives do you have?
11:14 AM jthornton: the hal file looks ok to me
11:16 AM drdoc: jthornton: the make commands for the kernel throw an error
11:17 AM esoren: I am using leadshine AM882 stepper drivers. I confirmed they are working with a smoothie board. I am also not seeing any step activity on the step pins from the MESA board using an oscilloscope, so I don't think the problem is with the drivers.
11:17 AM drdoc: run "make modules_install" before "make install"
11:17 AM jthornton: I didn't get that error make, make install, and make modules install all went fine
11:17 AM drdoc: will it boot?
11:17 AM jthornton: goes to busybox
11:18 AM jthornton: esoren, can you zip up your configuration directory and post it on filebin.net
11:18 AM drdoc: on my box the make install error gets lost in the output, but the gist is that make doesn't find modules in the /lib/modules directory, so it skips building the initramfs archive
11:19 AM jthornton: I'll have to see if Andy has any ideas
11:19 AM drdoc: I bet if you look in /boot, you'll find the built kernel, but not a matching initramfs
11:19 AM jthornton: hmm let me look
11:20 AM drdoc: that's *not* Andy's bug, it's a weirdness with that kernel source
11:20 AM jthornton: it all seems to be there
11:20 AM drdoc: huh
11:21 AM jthornton: I noticed the kernel in the git has been bumped up a few
11:21 AM jthornton: I know but Andy is very clever and may have an idea of where to look
11:22 AM drdoc: if I follow Andy's directions to the letter, I end up with vmlinuz-<version>, Config-<version>, and System.map-<version>
11:22 AM drdoc: but no initramfs-<version>
11:22 AM drdoc: jthornton: try just reversion the install commands
11:22 AM drdoc: reversing*
11:22 AM jthornton: I have also initramfs-img<version>
11:23 AM drdoc: do make install_modules before make install
11:23 AM drdoc: can't hurt anything, and as it's not compiling anything it doesn't take long
11:23 AM jthornton: I'm going to install debian on that drive and start over in the morning over my coffee, I just grabbed a drive with linux mint on it
11:24 AM drdoc: that's all I had to do to get a bootable kernel, after having the same problem you are
11:24 AM drdoc: heh
11:24 AM jthornton: ok yours boots now then?
11:24 AM drdoc: this was in Debian 10.whatever's stable
11:24 AM drdoc: yes
11:24 AM esoren: I take it back, I just double-checked with the oscilloscope and I am seeing step pulses now. I think I probably need to adjust the timing of the pulses for these drives.
11:24 AM esoren: jthornton: thanks for taking a look :)
11:25 AM drdoc: jthornton: it's very odd. Granted, I haven't built a kernel in a few years, but I've never seen that happen before
11:25 AM jthornton: yea double the step and direction time then do a stepper test as in the documents
11:26 AM jthornton: I build rt preempt all the time, but have not done a rtai in a long time
11:27 AM drdoc: I finally gave up on getting the linuxcnc code to build in Devuan, so I threw a spare drive in the CAD box and installed Debian
11:27 AM jthornton: I took what was on that wiki page and added explanations what each command does and replaced /path/to/this/RTAI-git-tree/ksrc/patches/ with ~/RTAI/ksrc
11:28 AM drdoc: it's a lot faster than the target box anyway.
11:28 AM esoren: jthornton: when I click the "Test / Tune Axis" button from PNCconf I get an error: "AttributeError: 'mobile' object has no attribute 'kernel_version' "
11:28 AM jthornton: it can be quite tedious to break away from debian and debian like os
11:28 AM jthornton: you would have to ask Chris about that on the forum, he is the author
11:29 AM jthornton: just test in axis
11:29 AM Rab: drdoc, Dremel is garbage. I'm surprised they haven't switched to sleeve bearings across the line. If you want the same handheld form factor, take a look at Proxxon. For professional duty, try Foredom.
11:29 AM drdoc: Devuan is Debian, but uses LSB SysV instead of systemd
11:29 AM jthornton: ah didn't know that
11:29 AM drdoc: Rab: I have 2 Foredom sets
11:29 AM jthornton: anyway thanks for the tip it now boots to rtai
11:29 AM drdoc: both the 1/6hp, but I love them
11:30 AM drdoc: jthornton: cool.
11:30 AM jthornton: all right printer is printing time to go back to the shop
11:30 AM drdoc: Rab: I need something to get where the flex shaft won't
11:30 AM drdoc: jthornton: good luck
11:30 AM Rab: drdoc, maybe: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B001FWXEO6
11:31 AM drdoc: Rab: thanks for the Proxxon tip
11:31 AM Rab: The Proxxon tools are more expensive, but they're a lot better in several ways. Collets are steel instead of aluminum, bearings are located in metal instead of plastic.
11:32 AM drdoc: I've burnt up 2 Dremels in 5 years trying to run them like I would my Foredom
11:32 AM drdoc: plus, the collet runout has gotten awful
11:33 AM drdoc: just having a metal seat for the bearings is a huge step up
11:33 AM drdoc: that looks like a nice machine
11:34 AM drdoc: how are the Proxxon X/Y tables?
11:35 AM Rab: I haven't heard great things. They're cute, but I think suited only for very light hobby stuff. And for the price, you could get a "real" asian X/Y table.
11:35 AM drdoc: I have a little ChinaCorp precision drill that could use something
11:35 AM Rab: Probably anodized aluminum ways and plastic bearings.
11:35 AM drdoc: and the Taig table is $500 US
11:37 AM Rab: Proxxon have a wide line of cute tiny expensive machine tools, but I think the multitools are probably their best value.
11:37 AM drdoc: good to know
11:38 AM drdoc: the last time I used that drill was on an etched PCB with 300+ holes
11:38 AM drdoc: having wheels to turn would have saved a lot of eye strain
11:38 AM drdoc: :-)
11:38 AM Rab: Cheap, probably equally precise and last 10x longer: https://www.shars.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=701&q=x-y+table
11:39 AM drdoc: that's not at all hateful
11:40 AM Rab: Hmm, yeah...I build a PCB drill press (with a Proxxon tool, natch) and alignment by eye was always difficult. It really needed a magnifier or viewfinder or something.
11:40 AM Rab: s/build/built
11:41 AM drdoc: plus, if you etch the drill holes and miss center, you just broke a drill,
11:42 AM Rab: Very light duty though. The Shars tables might be gross overkill. Somewhere I have a little X-Y bearing slide table out of a microfiche machine, I always meant to marry that to the drill press.
11:42 AM drdoc: oh, my
11:42 AM drdoc: I know where there's a microfiche viewer for the taking
11:42 AM drdoc: I never thought about that
11:43 AM drdoc: I would love to find a copy of the plans for Howell's precision drill press
11:44 AM Rab: Here is the tool I used for the drill press: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B000S5KNEK
11:45 AM drdoc: I don;'t like paying just to see if I want something
11:45 AM Rab: I think it's just perfect for PCBs. No runout I could detect. I used carbide drills down to .25mm with no breakage.
11:46 AM Rab: I haven't done home-etched boards in years though.
11:46 AM drdoc: yeah, that little chinacorp drill surprised me. the runout's tight enough that it takes user error to break the drill
11:47 AM drdoc: that 12V tool is very interesting though
11:47 AM drdoc: PWM or variable voltage?
11:48 AM Rab: These days for a sensitive drill press I think the easiest thing is to just mount a low-runout drillmotor to a vertical linear slide. Maybe add some frills like a return spring.
11:48 AM drdoc: I have a couple of 12VDC power supplies sitting idle
11:48 AM Rab: E.g. https://www.instructables.com/id/$30-High-Speed-PCB-Drill-Press/
11:49 AM drdoc: yeah, you're probably right
11:49 AM t4nk-freenode: Rab, that .25mm.. does it work? I'm hoping to get those..
11:49 AM t4nk-freenode: but just to drill a pattern of holes
11:49 AM t4nk-freenode: not to mill a pcb
11:49 AM Rab: drdoc, that tool plugs into some kind of Proxxon speed controller that I didn't buy. I just powered it directly from 12V. They make varispeed versions though: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B000S5KO3K/
11:50 AM drdoc: yes, I'm looking
11:50 AM Rab: t4nk-freenode, worked great for me. But you need extremely no runout, no vibration of the table, etc. I was using those diameter drills in brass.
11:51 AM Rab: s/no/low
11:51 AM drdoc: one of my friends brought me a whole carton of PSUs from retired Dell servers last year
11:51 AM Rab: I guess "extremely no" works.
11:51 AM drdoc: heh
11:52 AM drdoc: they're 12V/3.3V only, at 50-64A on the 12V rails
11:52 AM drdoc: extremely stable current, and they have all the bells & whistles like over-current and thermal cutouts
11:53 AM drdoc: and ridiculously easy to set up as a bench supply
11:53 AM t4nk-freenode: mmmmmmm... that's gonna be a problem.. I'm still experimenting with the printer parts I got to try and get some sort of construction going. But I foud that the threaded rods need more precise construction, otherwise everything vibrates all over the place. Today I bought a telescopic broom-stick .. I think I might attach a threaded rod to that. (and no.. threaded rod is an awful solution indeed :( but I gotta stick to
11:53 AM t4nk-freenode: something)
11:54 AM t4nk-freenode: I hope to build sth that will let me mill another machine, a bit better
11:54 AM t4nk-freenode: ;)
11:54 AM drdoc: t4nk-freenode: cheap Amazon/ebay lead screw works for me
11:54 AM t4nk-freenode: ...those dreams..
11:55 AM drdoc: are you in the US?
11:55 AM t4nk-freenode: metric? ... no, holland
11:55 AM drdoc: Rab: here
11:55 AM drdoc: http://www.tjinguytech.com/my-projects/server-ps
11:55 AM Rab: Threaded rod is not great for milling PCBs, although many people have made it work. But it should be fine for drilling, even at fractions of a mm: it just has to get the work in place, and hold it stationary.
11:56 AM drdoc: I use metric lead screws for 3d printers, because literally none of the slicing software speaks inches
11:56 AM t4nk-freenode: well.. I tested on a piece of cardboard, punching holes and weaving wire.. then soldered a 20pin smd chip onto it
11:56 AM t4nk-freenode: I figure if I could drill holes with .25mm... in thin wood.. then I'd be golden
11:56 AM drdoc: the inches-to-metric rounding error kills
11:57 AM drdoc: t4nk-freenode: how much travel do you need?
11:58 AM drdoc: if shipping & customs doesn't kill you, 200-300mm lead scres with nuts can be had for less than 10USD
11:58 AM t4nk-freenode: well.. 16km's if it were up to me of course, but.. the minicnc had about 3cm's or so.. so this time I gather I'll be going for about 30cm
11:59 AM drdoc: so you'd need 400mm screws, minimum
11:59 AM t4nk-freenode: and 'lead screw' automatically refers to 'metric', or 'acme', right?
11:59 AM drdoc: Rab: my router runs on 2 of those PSUs in series
12:00 PM drdoc: t4nk-freenode: in a machine shop, metric is trapezoidal thread screw, and imperial is acme
12:00 PM drdoc: on Amazon or Ebay, lead screw is the common term
12:01 PM t4nk-freenode: and the first is what I want?
12:01 PM drdoc: if you design in metric, yes
12:01 PM t4nk-freenode: yes, sorry.. I never learnt to deal with inches and 'stuff' ;)
12:02 PM drdoc: don't apologize
12:02 PM t4nk-freenode: guess we're on opposite ends of the same problem
12:02 PM drdoc: the US is one of 3 nations on the planet still using Dark Age units
12:03 PM drdoc: I design in metric if I can
12:03 PM drdoc: anyway, yeah
12:03 PM drdoc: T8x8 or T8x2 should be the sweet spot on price
12:04 PM drdoc: that is, 8mm diameter and either 8mm pitch or 2mm pitch
12:05 PM t4nk-freenode: look... this minicnc was a joy to make, it was just whopwhop, bit of hot glue and done ;) but I've had my dreams shattered a bit after my first experiments.. have high hopes for the telescopic system though
12:05 PM drdoc: for a drill 8mm is plenty strong
12:05 PM drdoc: heh
12:06 PM drdoc: here's mine:
12:06 PM drdoc: https://imgur.com/a/xtgQoat
12:06 PM t4nk-freenode: I bought 1meter of m5 threaded rod, Loetmichel warned me about it.. but for the sake of experimentation I bought it anyway.. half of them were crooked in the store
12:06 PM drdoc: a bit under 400x400, mostly leftovers from building 3D printers
12:06 PM Rab: drdoc, excellent! I'm really into that stuff for driving BLDC motors. I got a couple of HP DL580 PSUs for 24V @ 100A, modded one for a floating output but I haven't set them up yet.
12:06 PM t4nk-freenode: so that's your v2 then
12:07 PM drdoc: that's my v1 actually
12:07 PM Rab: Now I see there is a 2450W 12V PSU all over eBay for cheap. Need to get one to play with.
12:07 PM drdoc: it's based on the "Sphinx" design
12:07 PM t4nk-freenode: ah, I see you went for a flexible shaft too!
12:07 PM drdoc: Rab: here's a couple of reading references, aka "rabbit holes"
12:08 PM drdoc: t4nk-freenode: I have 2, and no money for a spindle right now
12:08 PM drdoc: target is a Makita
12:08 PM t4nk-freenode: I did manage to attach a flexible shaft from my imitation dremel to the dvd-cnc.. even managed to drill holes and such
12:09 PM t4nk-freenode: couldn't believe the dvd steppers could do the job
12:10 PM drdoc: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1292514-How-to-convert-Server-Power-Supplies
12:10 PM drdoc: that's pretty impressive
12:10 PM t4nk-freenode: well, if it works it works! theoretically you'd say a flexible shaft is as good
12:11 PM drdoc: my steppers are 1.5A nema17, and I did not expect them to perform as well as they do
12:11 PM drdoc: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=379677.0
12:11 PM t4nk-freenode: if I manage to make some progress.. I'll buy a couple of those steppers too
12:12 PM drdoc: Rab: that RC Groups thread is *very* long
12:13 PM Rab: drdoc, they mentioned the 2450W PSU I've been looking at, but nobody's figured out how to turn it on yet I guess.
12:14 PM Rab: https://www.ebay.com/itm/223272058405
12:14 PM Rab: HP 500242-001. Hard to beat that power to price ratio.
12:15 PM Rab: Although I think getting anything close to rated output would need a pretty good 220V dedicated circuit.
12:16 PM Rab: I have a BLDC motor from an electric chainsaw that I'd like to use for a spindle motor, so that's the catalyst for the PSU project.
12:32 PM drdoc: what kind of speeds does it get?
12:33 PM roycroft: *chuckle*
12:33 PM roycroft: grizzly's website is so dum
12:34 PM roycroft: a couple days ago or so we were discussing tablesaws here
12:34 PM Rab: Beats me, guessing from the size that it's <10K RPM.
12:34 PM roycroft: and i mentioned that i have an original g1023 - a saw that rizzly made from the early '80s to the early to mid 90s or so
12:34 PM roycroft: i went to their website and got a link to it to paste here, because they keep info on discontinued items on the website
12:35 PM roycroft: since then i've gotten three emails from them reminding me that i was looking at that saw, and asking me if i want to buy it
12:35 PM Rab: Maybe they'll put it back into production for demonstrated demand!
12:36 PM drdoc: Rab: I know the Dell psus are designed to run in parallel - there's a load-balancing circuit
12:36 PM roycroft: mayhap
12:36 PM drdoc: roycroft: bait & switch, anyone?
12:37 PM gregcnc: defective marketingtired
12:42 PM roycroft: it just indicates to me that i'm not browsing privately enough
12:42 PM gregcnc: is it even possible anymore?
01:00 PM elmo40: no one can browse privately enough
01:00 PM elmo40: DNS servers know all the traffic
01:22 PM roycroft: one can avoid most of the data mining, though
01:23 PM roycroft: using a throw-away virtual machine and tor browser through a vpn does a fairly good job
01:24 PM roycroft: walking to a local store that doesn't have a surveillance system and paying in cash is also pretty effective
01:24 PM roycroft: unless you're in a surveillance state like china or the uk, where your every move is monitored by the government
01:28 PM drdoc: woooooo!
01:31 PM drdoc: that is a ridiculous fail
01:34 PM drdoc: building the RTAI 5.2.2 debs kept failing with "Invalid configuration: ... machine 'linux-headers-4.14.134-rtai-amd64_4.14.134-rtai-amd64-2_amd64.deb' not recognized
01:34 PM drdoc: ...
01:34 PM drdoc: ...so I moved the .debs out of /usr/src/
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: isn't debian fun?
01:35 PM drdoc: ever minit
01:35 PM drdoc: I'm still boggling over the "make && make install && make modules_install" fail
01:36 PM drdoc: still
01:36 PM drdoc: I'm miles past where I quit last night
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: i think that people who packages Debian are just used to all of its quirks
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: nobody will dare fix it
01:37 PM drdoc: :-)
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: some steps may involve throwing salt over a particular shoulder or some sacrifice to a angry sky man
01:39 PM drdoc: well...
01:39 PM drdoc: I *did* rake my shin on the build box leaving the office last night
01:39 PM drdoc: left a bit of skin & blood
01:41 PM drdoc: I still can't get the RTAI patch to apply to the linuxcnc-dev tree
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: 80's yesterday, 57 today :), finally nice work weather again
01:44 PM drdoc: where you at?
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: northern Illinois
01:44 PM drdoc: central Texas here
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: I can almost see Wisconsin from here
01:45 PM drdoc: 94F
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, no longer interested in 80+ F unless the humidity is <20%
01:46 PM drdoc: it's *very* dry today
01:46 PM drdoc: only 48%
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: https://3dprint.com/255407/relativity-space-closes-140-million-in-series-c-funding-led-bond-tribe-capital/
01:48 PM drdoc: wowsers
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: payload capacity of up to 1250 kg, so what the expected market for launching these?
01:49 PM drdoc: have you read about the jet-engine SLS printer in Australia?
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: satellites? military stuff? space cemetery? Amamzon delivery?
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: https://3dprint.com/255258/openhybrid-project-complete-hybrid-machines-with-cnc-machining-and-ded-3d-printing-capabilities/
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: OpenHybrid project where nothing is open except your wallet
01:52 PM drdoc: it's a university there that developed a mahine that uses a mini jet instead of a laser
01:52 PM drdoc: they're getting homogenous fusing, not sintering
01:53 PM drdoc: and now I can't find the article
01:53 PM drdoc: I do know how to spell homogeneous
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: please explain the difference between sintering and fusing
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11436151/Australia-creates-world-first-3D-printed-jet-engines.html
01:56 PM drdoc: sintering almost always results in a non-homogeneous mass
01:56 PM drdoc: looks like MDF under a microscope
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: isn't dat wut heat treating will take care of?
01:58 PM drdoc: the project in that article is why I can't find the article about the 3D printer
01:58 PM drdoc: depending on the quality of the sintering, yes
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.theengineer.co.uk/rolls-royce-single-crystal-turbine-blade/
02:03 PM drdoc: wow
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: why come whenever all the parts arrive for some project something else breaks down and you have to spend a day or two fixing it (car, mill, furnace, minesweeper etc)
02:05 PM drdoc: Murphy
02:05 PM drdoc: Huh.
02:06 PM drdoc: this patch is from the ipipe-x86
02:47 PM Connor: OKay, what's the deal with C3 bearings vs non C3 bearings?
02:47 PM Connor: I ordered a 6004ZZ (and went out of my way to make sure it wasn't a C3) and they sent a 6004ZZEC3
02:48 PM drdoc: there was an overstock sale?
02:48 PM drdoc: oh dear gods
02:49 PM drdoc: I've been trying to find the error in a .patch file since yesterday
02:49 PM drdoc: when the problem was copy/pasting the patch command from the instructions, and never really reading it
02:49 PM drdoc: "patch -p1 <file" will sit there forever
02:50 PM drdoc: err
02:50 PM drdoc: "patch -p1 file" will sit there forever
02:50 PM drdoc: "patch -p1 < file" works nicely
02:55 PM Rab: Connor, what's your application? Looks like C3 would be a sloppy substitute where standard clearance is specified.
02:56 PM Connor: Input gear for threading gearbox on lathe
03:00 PM Rab: Not a high-speed, high-heat application, so increased clearance doesn't help. I would not be delighted by the substitution. OTOH I don't know if there is any penalty for you, maybe a tiny bit of added gear wear?
03:00 PM Connor: Checking with the seller to see WTF the deal is.
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: they probably don't know the difference
03:07 PM Connor: Probably not. Kinda ticks me off.
03:08 PM Connor: I normally get bearings from vbx.com, but they didn't have any of those in non C3..
03:08 PM Connor: so, I went to ebay.
03:08 PM Connor: should have known.
03:09 PM Connor: https://www.ebay.com/itm/6004ZZ-Nachi-Ball-Bearing-6004-ZZE-ZZ-2Z-Made-in-Japan-20X42X12MM/302059909991
03:27 PM drdoc: CaptHindsight: I finally got it done
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: debian packages?
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: yeah, they don't say C3
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: Factory Fresh.
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: Electric Motor Quality.
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: but it did say this ^^
03:30 PM drdoc: yes
03:44 PM drdoc: aaand... a slew of non-existent dependencies
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: drdoc: building on Devuan?
03:53 PM drdoc: no, on Debian 10.0
03:54 PM drdoc: python-vte and python-gtksourceview2 aren't available
03:55 PM drdoc: I'm just going to drop back to Stretch
03:58 PM Deejay: gn8
04:00 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest2140
04:58 PM Rab: Well, that's creative: https://hackaday.io/project/165889-x-printer-portable
05:16 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: how long does the battery last while printing?
05:21 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
05:33 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, I dont think its battery based
05:33 PM _unreal_: I could be worng
05:33 PM _unreal_: ya there is ntohing talking about a battery
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: ah so portable as in light weight and small size
05:41 PM drdoc: and foldable
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: you just can't print while on the trail or back country
05:41 PM drdoc: Hrrrm
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: i was picturing being isolated and without power and needing to print a Yoda for some desert ritual
05:42 PM drdoc: if you drove a vehicle with 24V electrics and had an inverter to power your laptop, you could
05:42 PM drdoc: or 12V for that matter, but it wouldn't be as cool
05:42 PM drdoc: :-)
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: say I'm backpacking with this, 10 miles from the nearest outlet and I suddenly need a PLA Yoda 2" high
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: I'm still out of luck
05:43 PM drdoc: next time that happens call me
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: so where could I use this?
05:43 PM drdoc: If you have a good enough reason (aka tall tale) I'll bring you a 2" Yoda
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: on the bus on the way to work
05:44 PM CaptHindsight: commuting to work you suddenly remember, oh crap. I left the Yoda on my desk back at the office
05:44 PM CaptHindsight: office/home
05:45 PM CaptHindsight: would this fit on my lap while commuting and no bother the person sitting next to me?
05:47 PM drdoc: depends on your lap
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: how about an electric griddle for making pancakes/flapjacks while you drive to work?
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: or in dash microwave oven
05:52 PM drdoc: I think an electric deep-fryer would be more fun
05:53 PM drdoc: for making fried chicken on your way to work on the bus
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: but not very health conscious
05:53 PM SpeedEvil: You could keep hot oil in a stainless stell thermos and dip the chicken in.
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: buses should have dining areas like trains
05:54 PM * drdoc submits that any high-temp heater on your lap isn't very health conscious
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: asbestos pants
05:55 PM SpeedEvil: On a related note - always wear solder-proof underpants when soldering.
05:55 PM _unreal_: if someone needs a 2" tall yoda to be printed while back packing 10miles out in the willies... they are a virgin
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: that should work, pour hot oil into thermos, add said chicken, cap off and wait 20 minutes, done
05:56 PM drdoc: aaand
05:56 PM drdoc: _unreal_ wins
05:56 PM CaptHindsight: 4L hot oil at 300C, 1L cold chicken 5C, how long and what temp with be equilibrium?
05:57 PM drdoc: eww
05:57 PM drdoc: not long enough and half-cooked
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: internal chicken temp should be 75C
05:58 PM _unreal_: lol CaptHindsight you need sustained heat source
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: before eating
05:58 PM _unreal_: regardless
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: nah, the thermos keeps the heat in :)
05:58 PM _unreal_: the rate of heat exchange is so high you will not fully cook the chicken
05:59 PM _unreal_: I went to cooking school for a while when I was in my late teens
06:00 PM t4nk-freenode: SpeedEvil, that seems to be generally in line with my: Never cut glass when butt-nicked!
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: the chicken has been shredded to increase surface area
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: maybe pelletized
06:01 PM CaptHindsight: like dippin dots only chikn-dots
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: https://desmoinesfeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/pigeon-pellets-40-fd32c181.jpg
06:13 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, simple question for you... HAVE you ever seen any kind of a device like what you are proposing
06:14 PM _unreal_: the answer is going to be a resounding NO because you can not store enough BTU's to safely cook much
06:14 PM _unreal_: OIL does not hold heat well
06:15 PM _unreal_: if you have HOT water and HOT oil in side of thermal containers. your going to have more BTU capacity in the water
06:27 PM pcw_mesa: I think the chicken would get overdone if it was under pressure (to prevent generation/heat loss from boiling)
06:27 PM pcw_mesa: (based on guessing that the specific heat of the oil is about 1/2 that of the chicken)
06:28 PM pcw_mesa: s/generation/steam generation/
06:31 PM drdoc: CaptHindsight: Here we go
06:31 PM drdoc: Deb 9 installed and most of the build dependencies installed
06:33 PM jthornton: hmm chicken is what 106F from the start
06:34 PM jthornton: weird G0 is slower than G1 on the ender 3 but I did find the config files
06:37 PM jthornton: Molly is getting picked on by the other girls because she is a bit ugly right now in the middle of a molt
06:39 PM drdoc: jthornton: have you gotten RTAI 5.2 to install on Debian 10?
06:40 PM jthornton: not tried yet, will try to finish up on linux mint in the morning
06:41 PM jthornton: debian 10 seems to have some issues with some software so far, this pc is debian 10
06:41 PM CaptHindsight: _unreal_: no I usually only work on things that you can't find off the shelf
06:41 PM drdoc: I got it *built*, but there are 2 dependencies that block installing the new linuxcnc* debs
06:42 PM drdoc: python-vte and python-gtksourceview2 simply aren't there
06:42 PM jthornton: I had to remove a couple of linuxcnc dependencies for debian 10 as they had been dropped
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_mesa: I agree, plus the thermos is sealed so it's under pressure and radiates little heat
06:42 PM drdoc: and neither "apt-cache search" nor the internet know a workaround
06:42 PM jthornton: yea just change the hmm let me look at my notes
06:43 PM pcw_mesa: 106f... Not a live chicken we hope...
06:43 PM jthornton: you can just drop them unless you really need gscreen
06:43 PM drdoc: I already wiped the build box and installed Debian 9
06:43 PM CaptHindsight: dead pelletized chicken was my vision
06:43 PM jthornton: yea that's the temperature of a live chicken
06:43 PM drdoc: I don't know enough about the software to pick & choose
06:44 PM drdoc: also
06:44 PM jthornton: modify the following files
06:44 PM jthornton: debian/control.bottom.in
06:44 PM jthornton: remove python-gtksourceview2, on line 14
06:44 PM jthornton: remove python-vte
06:44 PM jthornton: debian/control
06:44 PM jthornton: remove python-gtksourceview2, on line 68
06:44 PM jthornton: remove python-vte
06:44 PM CaptHindsight: drdoc: we have RTAI and LCNC on Sid so it must work on Buster (Deb10)
06:44 PM skunkworks: jthornton: is there an easy way to add the linuxcnc menus to the right click windows manager menu?
06:44 PM drdoc: building on a 4th-gen i7 is much more fun than on a C2Q
06:44 PM jthornton: debian 10 dropped some stuff
06:45 PM jthornton: skunkworks, I've not tried that but I'm sure there is a way
06:45 PM skunkworks: ok - I will look
06:45 PM drdoc: CaptHindsight: I believe you, but I really want to biuld & install everything according to a known-good procedure
06:45 PM pcw_mesa: jthornton: We dont have any chickens currently, we would need to make a full enclosure like you have. we got away with free run for many years but the predator pressure from coyotes make that impossible anymore
06:46 PM drdoc: skunkworks: what window manager are you using?
06:47 PM jthornton: pcw_mesa, yea my neighbor has found out that as well and now has a 4' chain link fence with some hot wires on the outside
06:47 PM jthornton: drdoc, my notes on debian 10 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hwSPXjGqKp/
06:47 PM drdoc: now he tells me
06:47 PM drdoc: :-)
06:47 PM * jthornton wonders what coyote tastes like...
06:48 PM drdoc: awful
06:48 PM jthornton: who is he?
06:48 PM drdoc: you
06:48 PM drdoc: literally less than 2 hours after I gave up & blew away the Deb10 install
06:48 PM drdoc: I have eaten coyote
06:49 PM jthornton: lol
06:49 PM jthornton: ok you saved me from trying
06:49 PM pcw_mesa: it seems the problem started with having longer droughts and semi urban areas like ours got invaded
06:49 PM drdoc: it tastes like you'd expect a carrion-feeder to taste
06:49 PM drdoc: jthornton: was it you discussing feral dogs last night?
06:49 PM pcw_mesa: they killed a neighbors small dog
06:49 PM jthornton: yea
06:50 PM drdoc: We hunted them in the Louisiana bayous in the mid-70s
06:50 PM drdoc: I hated it
06:50 PM jthornton: at least coyotes kill for food
06:50 PM drdoc: they run in packs, they aren't afraid of anything
06:50 PM jthornton: I used to live in LaPlace and Kenner and Metairie
06:50 PM jthornton: yep
06:51 PM jthornton: I always carry my slim 9 when I go outside
06:51 PM drdoc: and no matter how you slice it, shooting them feels like you're killing Ole Yeller
06:51 PM jthornton: yea it's a heavy thing but you have to do it
06:52 PM drdoc: We mostly used pump 12s and 9mm pistols
06:52 PM drdoc: when they get in a pack it's easy to get overrun
06:52 PM jthornton: my choice is my rem 870 with extended mag
06:52 PM jthornton: 12 gauge
06:52 PM drdoc: have you looked at the new DM models
06:52 PM drdoc: ?
06:52 PM jthornton: no
06:53 PM drdoc: 870-DM
06:53 PM drdoc: go look
06:53 PM drdoc: then have a cigareete
06:53 PM drdoc: cigarette
06:53 PM drdoc: :-)
06:53 PM jthornton: damn that's sweet
06:54 PM drdoc: the thing about a long tube is it messes with the swing
06:54 PM jthornton: yea it's heavy out on the end
06:54 PM jthornton: 6 round mag too
06:54 PM drdoc: what I like about that DM is that you can get legal for birds without taking the gun down
06:55 PM jthornton: just have only 3 round mags in your possession?
06:55 PM drdoc: I don't know if they're out yet but a couple of the aftermarket mfrs will be making 3 $ 5 round mags
06:55 PM drdoc: yes
06:55 PM jthornton: https://www.remington.com/shotguns/tactical/model-870-dm
06:56 PM drdoc: the Magpul model?
06:56 PM jthornton: remington says they have them
06:56 PM drdoc: cool
06:56 PM jthornton: wow you can get a 10 gauge
06:57 PM drdoc: :-)
06:57 PM drdoc: the problem with a 10 is that you gotta get far away if you want to eat what you kill
06:57 PM drdoc: way far away
06:58 PM jthornton: yea I think 10 gauge is not really offered as it did not find any
06:58 PM drdoc: ah
06:58 PM jthornton: using the find your shotgun thing
06:58 PM drdoc: they have a model that's all Magpul furniture
06:58 PM drdoc: I do not like it
06:59 PM jthornton: https://www.remington.com/shotguns/tactical/model-870-dm/model-870-dm-predator
06:59 PM drdoc: https://www.remington.com/shotguns/tactical/model-870-dm/model-870-dm-magpul
06:59 PM drdoc: ok, that's worse
07:00 PM drdoc: I'm kind of a get-off-my-lawn guy about guns
07:00 PM drdoc: black and/or brown
07:00 PM drdoc: full Stop.
07:01 PM drdoc: Well, blue
07:01 PM drdoc: you know what I meant
07:01 PM jthornton: yea
07:01 PM * jthornton goes to tuck the chickens in
07:54 PM skunkworks: drdoc: openbox
08:34 PM TurBoss: enlightenment 16
08:34 PM TurBoss: e16 :)
08:38 PM drdoc: yowsa
08:38 PM drdoc: has Enlightenment gotten any Lighter?
08:40 PM drdoc: I haven't used Enlightenment in a very long time
08:42 PM TurBoss: same
08:42 PM TurBoss: e16 used to be light but now is more fancy
08:42 PM TurBoss: they are on e2x now
08:42 PM drdoc: I tend to use either jwm, icewm, or, if I'm running it as an appliance, mwm
08:43 PM drdoc: I think it was v3 last time I ran it
08:43 PM drdoc: Enlightenment I mean
08:43 PM TurBoss: have you tried awesomewm?
08:44 PM TurBoss: its a modern light wm
08:44 PM TurBoss: ah forgot thats a tiling wm
08:47 PM drdoc: I don't mind tiling, if the hotkeys are sane
08:47 PM drdoc: Motif (mwm) is pretty lightweight and I'm used to the configuration
08:48 PM drdoc: it's easy to just pop your application full-screen when you log in
08:54 PM ziper: is there any easy way to reset calipers so that the 0 is actually pointing up?
08:59 PM drdoc: define easy?
09:00 PM Tom_L: they make a tool for that
09:00 PM Tom_L: is it ~.020" off?
09:00 PM Tom_L: it's off by a tooth if it its
09:00 PM Tom_L: is*
09:04 PM _unreal_: ?
09:04 PM _unreal_: yet an other screwed evening
09:04 PM _unreal_: got one cad drawing done for someone
09:05 PM _unreal_: then my daughter came into my room complaining of what looked like battery acid on her charging cord for her phone. I'm thinking OHHHHH. wonderful
09:05 PM _unreal_: only to discover that the flower bed outside the house/part of the house.. was collecting water again
09:05 PM _unreal_: rain gutter is screwed up again
09:06 PM _unreal_: just spent the last few hours IN the rain trying to add caulking to the seams...
09:06 PM _unreal_: My father insisted he do it because he can do any/everything better.
09:06 PM _unreal_: and as always fucked it up
09:10 PM drdoc: natch
09:10 PM ziper: it was off by like .050
09:10 PM ziper: my dad dropped them
09:11 PM drdoc: speaking of fucking it up
09:11 PM ziper: i stuck a piece of wire in there and got it to skip an appropriate number of teeth after trying a couple dozen times
09:11 PM drdoc: my rtai modules won't load
09:11 PM Tom_L: maybe 2 teeth off
09:15 PM _unreal_: drdoc, its been a while since I have run fluxbox
09:15 PM _unreal_: long while
09:16 PM _unreal_: never failed though.. get some storms going by and my install of fluxbox would have its flux capacitor go bad.
09:21 PM drdoc: lol
09:21 PM drdoc: I like fluxbox, but it takes a lot of twiddling to make it comfortable