#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 29 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:50 AM ve7it: XXCoder, lead works... for a couple of pours! http://ve7it.cowlug.org/cannon-ball.html
12:54 AM XXCoder: lol yeah but i dont wanna deal with lead
12:54 AM XXCoder: wonder if it could be coated woth silican to protect woo
12:54 AM XXCoder: wood
12:54 AM ve7it: thought you might be interested in the wooden forms....
12:54 AM ve7it: cut by linuxcnc
12:54 AM XXCoder: i am, just not lead pour
12:54 AM XXCoder: I plan to try low temperare metal pours for fun someday
12:54 AM XXCoder: that is pretty cool though,. did you do it?
12:54 AM ve7it: I have been meaning to try casting some concrete weights... much cheaper, maybe some magnetite sand to make then a little bit denser
12:56 AM Loetmichel: ve7it: i wouldnt do that in wood. To expensive. I would use Ytong
12:57 AM Loetmichel: also it would last a lot longer
12:58 AM ve7it: might work if baked before casting..... I have done some plaster forms.... they work as long as they have been baked dry in the oven.... any moisture makes for an exciting pour
12:59 AM ve7it: wood did boil quit a bit
12:59 AM XXCoder: ytong is concerete material?
12:59 AM XXCoder: how millable is it?
01:01 AM ve7it: never heard of ytong in North America... had to look it up... looks like nice stuff
01:01 AM Loetmichel: you can machine it with hss tools, although they dull fast
01:02 AM Loetmichel: its usually sawed with a "fuchsschwanz" a.k.a handsaw for wood
01:02 AM XXCoder: could use scrap wood to test program then mill block
01:02 AM Loetmichel: but with carbide tools it will mill like a charm
01:02 AM Loetmichel: been there done that
01:02 AM Loetmichel: ve7it: i think you call it "aerated concrete"
01:03 AM ve7it: yes
01:03 AM Loetmichel: (although its a mix of concrete and plaster iirc)
01:04 AM Loetmichel: we build entiere houses out of that stuff here in germany. makes for fun incidents
01:07 AM Loetmichel: i once helped a buddy do an addition to his house, throwing up those 3/4' by 1' by 2' blocks up to third floor while an old lady came by... her look was priceless... you could read: "WTF? Superman in working clothes???" off her face ;)
01:08 AM XXCoder: how long does those last>?
01:08 AM Loetmichel: for pouring lead?
01:08 AM XXCoder: house
01:08 AM Loetmichel: indefinetly if you dont damage them mechanically
01:08 AM Loetmichel: house: forever as fast as i know
01:09 AM Loetmichel: they are just like the hollow concrete blocks the americans use
01:09 AM XXCoder: interesting lol
01:09 AM XXCoder: the "figure 8" ones?
01:09 AM Loetmichel: s/fast/far
01:09 AM Loetmichel: yes
01:09 AM XXCoder: so like those in weight, but no hollows?
01:09 AM Loetmichel: no hollows and a lot lighter
01:10 AM XXCoder: would be funny if it floated in flood ;)
01:10 AM Loetmichel: a 60cm by 20cm by 25cm block weights less than 6kg
01:10 AM XXCoder: $wa 6 kh pound
01:10 AM Loetmichel: thats the reason i could throw them up three floors ;)
01:10 AM XXCoder: bleh
01:10 AM Loetmichel: 14 pounds
01:11 AM XXCoder: already got info in other channel heh
01:11 AM Loetmichel: :-)
01:11 AM XXCoder: we really need gthx bot
01:13 AM Loetmichel: and it insulates pretty well
01:13 AM Loetmichel: you could take a 2" wide block, put a propane torch on one side and touch the other
01:13 AM Loetmichel: without feeling any heat
01:14 AM Loetmichel: I have seen people pour aluminium with ytong forms
01:15 AM XXCoder: not bad really. similiar to aerogel that theres lots air inside
01:15 AM Loetmichel: you need to dry them pretty good though
01:15 AM XXCoder: yeah
01:15 AM Loetmichel: yeah, kinda, but a lot more "macroscopic"
01:15 AM Loetmichel: its more liky styrofoam with concrete
01:15 AM XXCoder: yeah
01:15 AM Loetmichel: the cells/bubbles are about 2mm or so
01:15 AM Loetmichel: maybe 1mm
01:16 AM XXCoder: if aerogel wasnt so expensive I'd layer it between bricks for very good isulation
01:16 AM Loetmichel: so its not that good for fine detail :-)
01:16 AM XXCoder: but those blocks would be good
01:16 AM Loetmichel: you dont need bricks
01:16 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: you can make it for cheap
01:16 AM Loetmichel: they can hold a house just fine
01:17 AM CaptHindsight: it's not very strong
01:17 AM XXCoder: loet I know im saying it can stand in place of wall thats comprosed of brick/aerogel/brick wall
01:17 AM XXCoder: i wonder how doable making it is? any special equipment
01:18 AM Loetmichel: back when i was a construction electrician the 2/3 story houses we did were built with outer (load bearing) walls made of 25cm by 20cm by 62,5cm ytong blocks and inner walls were of 8cm wide blocks (instead of 25cm)
01:18 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X24np30GS2o
01:18 AM Loetmichel: and it carried the load of the reinforced concrete ceilings juuust fine
01:19 AM XXCoder: pretty cool. doubt I will use it though for shop
01:19 AM XXCoder: wood is fine in this case.
01:20 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: wood is expensive in germany
01:20 AM XXCoder: I bet but it arent here
01:20 AM Loetmichel: hence our tendency to use other building materials
01:20 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.aerogel.org/
01:20 AM XXCoder: country is large enough for massive tree farms
01:21 AM Loetmichel: also building codes over here are a bit of a PITA if you want to build with wood
01:21 AM Loetmichel: possible but needs loads of fireproofing
01:22 AM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: yep expensive. cheaper now than back then tho
01:36 AM XXCoder: interesting https://futurism.com/seawater-hydrogen-fuel
02:21 AM Deejay: moin
03:16 AM TurBoss: morning
06:04 AM jthornton: morning
06:11 AM XXCoder: hey
06:39 AM Tom_L: morning
06:39 AM XXCoder: yo
08:25 AM _unreal_: sigh
08:25 AM _unreal_: hate to do an other part over but I have to remake the TOP part of the Zagain.
08:25 AM _unreal_: it appears that the spacing for the rails was off. machine code wise
08:26 AM _unreal_: ether lost steps or something
08:49 AM jthornton: wow I have 3.5GB of data usage left for the month
08:50 AM * SpeedEvil remembers back when that would be a ridiculous amount for two days.
08:56 AM _unreal_: ?
08:56 AM _unreal_: cell phone?
08:56 AM _unreal_: heh
08:56 AM _unreal_: I have unlimited
08:56 AM _unreal_: do you have like a track phone? cricket?
08:57 AM _unreal_: My phone plan I have unlimited data on my phone and the tablet
08:57 AM _unreal_: which I need regardless. for work.
08:58 AM _unreal_: ok... so just discovered my error
08:58 AM _unreal_: it was an other milling error. I took down the plane on one of the parts. The part I made I just milled all of the features. but never faced the part. taking it down 2 mm
08:58 AM _unreal_: Thats why it didnt fit
09:00 AM * _unreal_ feels like MC hammer "SHOWER TIME" doo do dodo dodo dodo
10:10 AM Centreline: Hi all, is it ok to ask about configuration on gmocappy->hardware buttons here?
10:15 AM Centreline: I have a bridgeport interact with gmocappy setup as my interface, but my touchscreen is getting flaky on one side of the digitizer. So I added a row of hardware buttons underneath the touchscreen and wired them into a mappable keyboard. I can make any of these buttons emit any keypress I want. How do I tell gmocappy these buttons do the virtual button functions on the bottom row? I tried key_a = gmoccapy.h-button-0 etc in gmocappy_preferences, but
10:15 AM Centreline: get a error of "this key is not implemented" in stdout and no mapping.
10:16 AM Centreline: Thought I'd just go ahead and ask as no body shouted :)
10:18 AM Centreline: actually brb, I'll rejoin from the shop next to the machine
10:30 AM JT-Shop: Centreline: best to ask this in the gmocappy section of the forum
10:30 AM JT-Shop: I'm not sure if anyone here uses it...
10:31 AM Centreline: ok thanks, maybe I'll try axis again now I'm leaning towards hardware button functions again
10:31 AM JT-Shop: some of us use QtPyVCP as it is fully customizable
10:32 AM JT-Shop: https://github.com/jethornton/mill_touch_v6
10:32 AM JT-Shop: that's what I use on my BP Knee mill... hmm I need to get some screen shots
10:33 AM Centreline: when I built this machine a few years back, this was ok, I just dont fancy paying 300 dollars for another elo touch screen small enough to fit in my monitor arm
10:34 AM JT-Shop: my elo crapped out so I just use a asus usb touch screen
10:34 AM Centreline: I mapped the knee/head joysticks using the remappable keyboard to map the inputs to th std linux cnc keypresses, that works nicely
10:35 AM JT-Shop: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4U7E7H
10:35 AM JT-Shop: cool, you have a power knee?
10:35 AM Centreline: space is the issue for the monitor, I squeezed the monitor and hardware buttons into the original screen housing
10:35 AM Centreline: no just the quill atm
10:36 AM Centreline: its a interact1, but I can get everything I need into the quill travel so far
10:36 AM JT-Shop: that one is 15" x 9.25"
10:36 AM JT-Shop: mine is a series 1 with an Anilam 1100m kit on it
10:37 AM Centreline: yeah this is 11x10
10:37 AM JT-Shop: I tried to get an interact from a buddy but his brother thought it was worth it's weight in gold lol
10:38 AM JT-Shop: that's going to be a hard size to find all of them seem to be wide screen now
10:38 AM Centreline: the later ones are better but this is the series1 with the vari head still as std, though I have a single speed drive and vfd now, but kept the backgear and have it feeding a gearbox component to switch ranges
10:39 AM JT-Shop: wanted to do that to mine but never got around to it
10:40 AM Centreline: I didn't have a choice, stock th emachine won't fit under the concrete block celing in my shop, so I had to cut the whole casting down a few inches to get it in, loosing the height of the vari pulleys, I have a inch above the head after its cut down to the max
10:40 AM JT-Shop: wow
10:41 AM * JT-Shop wanders down to check on the chickens
10:41 AM Centreline: I must be the only person in the world glad I still have a qt30 spindle
10:45 AM jthornton: I have a kwik-switch 30 on the bp knee mill
10:45 AM jthornton: and two hens are in the nest box...
11:02 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: so there is soufflee this evening?
11:02 AM Loetmichel: ;)
11:33 AM _unreal_: I'm really confused... my desktop that I had just finished setting up has no "boot" device
11:33 AM _unreal_: WTF
11:34 AM _unreal_: but I can access the files
11:34 AM _unreal_: I can boot to linux on it fine but the windiws side is fucked again?
11:34 AM _unreal_: I wonder if the HD is bad?
11:34 AM _unreal_: this is not the first time its done this
11:37 AM Centreline: wonder if its bios untrusted mode at play...
11:59 AM _unreal_: I must be having a brain fart. I cant for the life of me get an unpartitioned harddrive partitioned. from the command line
11:59 AM _unreal_: I cant see the damn thing
11:59 AM _unreal_: I have an IDE and an an SATA hd
12:17 PM _unreal_: ok figured it out had to do a CAT command to find the identity of the freaking drives....
12:17 PM _unreal_: now cloning
12:17 PM _unreal_: I dont know that this will fix anything but WTF
12:18 PM _unreal_: I dont get how it lost its boot info again
12:26 PM drdoc: 3
12:28 PM drdoc: wow, Youtube *really* doesn't like realtime restrictions
12:29 PM drdoc: _unreal_: have you run smartctl on that drive?
12:31 PM _unreal_: realtime restrictions?
12:31 PM _unreal_: smartctl no
12:31 PM _unreal_: I just want to boot the damn thing so I can do some cad work
12:31 PM drdoc: heh
12:31 PM _unreal_: its 3x faster then this laptop
12:32 PM drdoc: smartctl will tell you if the drive's losing sectors
12:33 PM _unreal_: I just did a disk clone
12:33 PM _unreal_: so I at least have it backed up
12:33 PM _unreal_: trying to boot to the other drive now
12:33 PM _unreal_: but looks like it does not want to boot to this one ether
12:33 PM drdoc: realtime restrictions: I'm tweaking the preempt_rt latency on a new-to-me motherboard
12:34 PM _unreal_: I dont get the relation of youtube and realtime restricions comment
12:34 PM drdoc: I'm running with isolcpus=1,2,3, and holding the cpu load average around 2.5
12:35 PM drdoc: it's making yourube crash every 5-6 minutes
12:35 PM drdoc: youtube is crashing too
12:37 PM tommylight: you should check this, but i do not think isolcpu does much for preempt-rt
12:39 PM drdoc: tommylight: just setting that took latency from >100 usec to <9
12:40 PM drdoc: actually more like 2 usec on the base thread, but I'm still getting a huge spike every 12-14 minutes
12:56 PM TurBoss: same here isolcpus 1,2,3 did the job fron 00k
12:56 PM TurBoss: * same here isolcpus 1,2,3 did the job fron 100k
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: EFI operates out of band, so if it decides it needs the hardware for anything real time loses
12:59 PM CaptHindsight: drdoc: on top of EFI doing whatever it wishes you don't really know which power management features are still on even if you turn them off in the config screen
12:59 PM drdoc: this is a C2D board with a P43 chipset
12:59 PM CaptHindsight: most BIOSes are broken
12:59 PM drdoc: I don't think EFI is hurting much
12:59 PM drdoc: :-)
01:00 PM drdoc: some cat I don't even know donated it, with 8GB RAM and a Q6600
01:00 PM tommylight: thank you for that info
01:01 PM drdoc: yes
01:02 PM drdoc: CaptHindsight: I'm having a hard time finding a concise list of tuning parameters for the preempt_rt kernel
01:03 PM drdoc: I found this, which is pretty inclusive:
01:03 PM drdoc: http://linuxrealtime.org/index.php/Improving_the_Real-Time_Properties
01:03 PM drdoc: but it was written in 2015
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/36585-latency-tuning-questions
01:05 PM drdoc: thanks!
01:06 PM drdoc: does the idle= parameter apply to the preempt_rt kernel?
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: yes, it just keeps the core from idling
01:06 PM drdoc: yeah
01:07 PM drdoc: huh.
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: if it's always running something then it won't throttle the clock down
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: however power consumption will me maxed out
01:08 PM drdoc: I'm running "dd if=/dev/urandom of=bigfile count=many" in a loop
01:08 PM drdoc: haven't seen that spike since I started that
01:09 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.aksteel.com/sites/default/files/2018-01/301201706_0.pdf - lists properties of 301 stainless - but I've not been able to find at what temperature it begins to anneal and stop being 'full hard'. The anneal process listed elsewhere is 'heat to 1100C and then quench' - I assume some hardness is lost (once you get back to room tem[) at lower temps?
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: drdoc: so it's likely ignoring the BIOS setting to stop speed stepping ...
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: so by you running a process that keep the core running at 100% it doesn't slow down the clock
01:10 PM _unreal_: q6600 heh so you have a core2quad
01:11 PM drdoc: _unreal_: yeah
01:11 PM _unreal_: thats my "desktop" that is fucking up
01:11 PM _unreal_: trying to fix the boot
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: some motherboards just don't have good realtime results
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: and it's usually do to the BIOS
01:12 PM drdoc: CaptHindsight: that's one of the normally nice things about linux - the kernel mostly ignores the BIOS
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: do/due
01:12 PM jdh: so, how do you really feel about the current state of PC BIOSs
01:12 PM drdoc: heh
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: broken from the start
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: why we started coreboot/linuxbios
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: but you can't have that since we need to spy on you
01:13 PM drdoc: jdh: I chat a lot with the RedHat guy who owns most of the UEFI patents, and maintains the boot code
01:13 PM drdoc: he would agree with CaptHindsight
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: same for the Rpi's, start with a good working version of u-boot
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: then configure a kernel without any power management and anything else that effects latency
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: we offered to write all the firmware for Intel 20 years ago for free
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: but they wanted EFI
01:16 PM _unreal_: FUCKING computer. I'm going to toss both harddrives in this god damn machine at this point
01:16 PM drdoc: the "*.max_cstate=0" parameters should top the speed-stepping, right?
01:17 PM _unreal_: its acting like its reading both harddrives as one
01:17 PM drdoc: you in Linux?
01:18 PM _unreal_: I was I just shut down the computer
01:18 PM drdoc: ...aaaand there it went
01:18 PM _unreal_: I'm pitching the fucking drives
01:18 PM drdoc: 63 minutes between spikes
01:18 PM _unreal_: spikes?
01:18 PM t4nk-freenode: I bet you installed windows first..
01:19 PM _unreal_: I've never really used this desktop
01:19 PM _unreal_: I traded it to a guy I went to school with like 7 years ago
01:20 PM drdoc: _unreal_: base thread is bouncing between next to 0 and 2 microseconds
01:20 PM _unreal_: I had a 3 core amd laptop with an NVIDIA GPU and he gave me this core2quad desktop
01:20 PM drdoc: except when it spikes to 9 uSec
01:20 PM _unreal_: oh cpu use spkes
01:20 PM _unreal_: I was thinking power
01:20 PM _unreal_: :)
01:20 PM drdoc: latency spikes
01:21 PM _unreal_: speaking of I have a REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY NICE APC I got out of the dumpster few months ago. I need to get a set of batteries for it. I'm going to use it for my new cnc machine I'm building for work
01:21 PM drdoc: cpu load has been steady
01:21 PM drdoc: nice
01:22 PM drdoc: I bought an 850VA Cyberpower a couple of months ago at Goodwill for $12
01:23 PM drdoc: battery will hold a charge for a week without noticeable drop
01:24 PM drdoc: I'm wondering whether giving the OS another core might help with that spike
01:26 PM _unreal_: are you using your computer for other uses as your cnc'ing
01:27 PM drdoc: nope
01:28 PM drdoc: my CAD box and my daily driver are both i7
01:32 PM drdoc: I'm wondering whether putting a not-Realtek ethernet card in there might help
01:37 PM _unreal_: ? are you using an is-Realtek ethernet card?
01:38 PM _unreal_: That APC is an "apc back-ups pro 1500
01:41 PM drdoc: that is a nice UPS
01:41 PM drdoc: it's what sits under my desk
01:41 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APC-Smart-UPS-750-VA-Line-interactive-Tower-SUA750I-UPS/163884485128
01:41 PM SpeedEvil: I have one very similar to this.
01:42 PM drdoc: the cyberpower was for the 3D printer
01:42 PM SpeedEvil: It got two 100Ah 12V deep-cycle bats for christmas 5 years ago, and will still do ~1kWh+@500W.
01:42 PM drdoc: and yes, this m/b has a Realtek chip onboard
01:42 PM drdoc: 3
01:43 PM _unreal_: I get a lot of amazing stuff from the yachts
01:43 PM _unreal_: the shit they throw away is crazy
01:43 PM _unreal_: one of my latest finds
01:43 PM _unreal_: direct logic 405ex d4-ex
01:44 PM _unreal_: with what several modules that have special functions
01:46 PM _unreal_: I litteraly have new in the box a bunch of the modules http://www.chetenright.com/photos/portfolio/plc.jpg like this
01:46 PM _unreal_: the just tossed em
01:47 PM jdh: got one of those on a prototype machine at work. hate them. but, for personal use and free, prob less hate
01:47 PM jesseg: drdoc, I got one of those cyberpowers new a few years ago and I like it.
01:49 PM _unreal_: jdh, I have a ton of modules as well
01:49 PM jesseg: in fact mine had the usb shutdown feature, including a program for Linux to shut down a server when the power failed. So I took a PIC micro and made up a little PCB so after the USB power lost power the UPS would shut off to save battery once the server was shut down, then it'd turn back on the UPS (and the server) when power was restored for 4 minutes
01:49 PM _unreal_: if you have any interest let me know
01:50 PM _unreal_: infact if any of you guys are looking for control hardware there is always a chance I might have something stashed away and would love to sell
01:54 PM _unreal_: ?
01:56 PM _unreal_: interesting discovery. My Z motor was 90% unplugged
01:56 PM _unreal_: just pushed it back in
01:59 PM drdoc: that might be a problem
01:59 PM drdoc: what kind of control hardware?
02:01 PM _unreal_: I work on luxury yachts
02:01 PM _unreal_: they are for ever upgrading and just TOSSing old hardware
02:01 PM _unreal_: so I find parts all the time in the dumpsters
02:01 PM _unreal_: network controllers for example ethernet to serial adapters
02:02 PM _unreal_: all kinds of sensor hardware
02:02 PM _unreal_: items like I listed the 405ex
02:02 PM _unreal_: I still need to sell a few inverters I have
02:03 PM _unreal_: 12v or 24v in Iforget 220 50hz output
02:03 PM _unreal_: almost done with the pain in the ass part
02:09 PM _unreal_: the luxury yachts have lots of expensive control hardware. automation BS
02:09 PM _unreal_: like remotes to make everything move for you. curtains doors, walls tv's, and so on
02:10 PM drdoc: ah
02:10 PM _unreal_: those controllers were likely used to control door motions and davit motion and other hardware
02:11 PM _unreal_: I'm talking 100' + boats here worth 10's of millions +
02:11 PM _unreal_: last week a guy I work with got 6 iphone 6's because the CAPT. upgraded all the crew phones
02:12 PM _unreal_: just tossed them in the trash
02:38 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
02:41 PM drdoc: nice
02:42 PM drdoc: irqbalance is a bad thing, yes?
02:45 PM _unreal_: dont even know what that is?
02:45 PM _unreal_: answer: could be, or may not be :)
03:23 PM _unreal_: sigh
03:23 PM _unreal_: 12min and I have to go on that 3hr drive to get my daughter :(
03:24 PM _unreal_: I'm one of the few guys out there that saddly cant wait for his child to grow up...... no more XWIFE bull shit
03:25 PM _unreal_: sigh
03:42 PM Centreline: oh dear, what have I done... I just upgraded my years out of date debian and linuxcnc to try and fix gmocappy ignoring the config options, and now the screen doesn't want to fit in a 800x600 resolution
03:47 PM JT-Shop2: rut row
03:51 PM * JT-Shop2 is pretty sure he won't finish converting the new shop lights to led today... just too tired