#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 24 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

03:22 AM Deejay: moin
03:30 AM jesseg: Mornin'
04:45 AM pink_vampire: hi
04:46 AM XXCoder: hey
04:47 AM pink_vampire: I need an advice about rails for the long axis
04:48 AM pink_vampire: I was thinking about getting a 20mm rod rail with support, but then I saw this thing
04:48 AM pink_vampire: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232862332083
04:48 AM XXCoder: damn thats so cheap now
04:48 AM pink_vampire: yeah, it is not THK or Hiwin, but it ismuch better then round rails
04:49 AM XXCoder: yeah sbr isnt as good
04:52 AM pink_vampire: I'm uploading a picture of the design that I did so far.
04:53 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/dOTtuQW.png
04:54 AM XXCoder: plan to machine em? or print
04:54 AM pink_vampire: all the yellowish color is pla parts
04:55 AM pink_vampire: also the green part
04:55 AM XXCoder: i see youre using insert nut
04:56 AM pink_vampire: design to be very easy to print and very stiff
04:56 AM XXCoder: definitely stronger than melt insert bolt thing
04:58 AM pink_vampire: all the linear rails bearings are hold in place with retention rings. so no screw and nuts that can become loss with vibrations. and also much much cheaper
04:59 AM XXCoder: wouldnt that also introduce backlash unless rings is very tight against part its retaining?
04:59 AM pink_vampire: the rails for the Z axis are 12mm with 4 linear rails bearings, but on the Y axis there is 16mm linear rails and 6 bearings
05:00 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: even if it move it can't slip if the belt is hold the actual plastic part in place
05:00 AM XXCoder: ahh ok
05:01 AM XXCoder: makes sense
05:01 AM pink_vampire: and for the X axis (not in the design yet) I'm thinking about those china style hiwin
05:07 AM jym: g'morning
05:07 AM pink_vampire: good morning Jymmm
05:08 AM XXCoder: yo
05:09 AM pink_vampire: jym: did you saw my cnc design?
05:10 AM jym: pink_vampire: nuh uh
05:10 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/dOTtuQW.png
05:10 AM pink_vampire: that is what I did so far
05:11 AM pink_vampire: 12mm round rails for Z, and 16 round rails for Y,
05:11 AM pink_vampire: all the yellow and green parts are 3d printed
05:14 AM jym: pink_vampire: Is this a router?
05:14 AM pink_vampire: almost
05:15 AM pink_vampire: I'm going to use my 60K on it
05:15 AM Tom_L: morning
05:16 AM pink_vampire: morning Tom_L
05:16 AM jym: what is 60K ?
05:16 AM pink_vampire: 60K rpm spindle
05:17 AM jym: So it will be a router
05:17 AM pink_vampire: yeah
05:17 AM pink_vampire: not a mill
05:17 AM pink_vampire: the Z is just 3in of travel
05:17 AM jym: and what will you be cutting material wise?
05:18 AM pink_vampire: it is design to cut soft sheet material like wood, pvc, acrylic, and maybe 1/8" aluminum
05:19 AM pink_vampire: I want to go with belt drive and might add a laser option to it.
05:20 AM jym: pink_vampire: The thought that comes to mind is y rail deflection
05:21 AM pink_vampire: what do you mean?
05:23 AM jym: pink_vampire: Well, if you take a cut in hardwood, the force might bow/flex the Y rails
05:24 AM pink_vampire: I see what you mean
05:24 AM pink_vampire: do you have an idea how to solve it?
05:25 AM jym: Using round rails, I don't. But you could use a deflection claculator and see how much force can be applied without flexing
05:26 AM pink_vampire: I'm trying to make it as 3d printed and cheapest possible
05:28 AM jym: WEll, less depth of cuts, and MUCH slower travel
05:29 AM jym: Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two =)
05:29 AM pink_vampire: I want to make it with very high feed rate, so the depth of cut will be dust
05:31 AM jym: dust?????
05:31 AM pink_vampire: very very small chip load
05:32 AM jym: So you don't mind running a project overnight?
05:32 AM pink_vampire: I want it to work as "good" as the g0704"
05:33 AM jym: So you don't mind running a project overnight?
05:33 AM pink_vampire: 0.5mm DOC in aluminum work fine
05:33 AM jym: 6 to 9 hours?
05:33 AM pink_vampire: why over night?
05:34 AM jym: Wuth such shallow cuts, you might have a LOT of passes
05:34 AM pink_vampire: 6 passes for for 2d parts, that will be almost like jigsaw speed
05:35 AM jym: okey, fair enough.
05:35 AM pink_vampire: it is not going to be the next datron, it is design to a price point
05:36 AM syyl: so are datrons
05:37 AM pink_vampire: any router is better than cut something on the g0704 in 10 setups just because I can't fit it on the table.
05:41 AM pink_vampire: OMFG!
05:41 AM pink_vampire: 19mm displacement!
05:42 AM pink_vampire: this is not make sense at all
05:43 AM pink_vampire: KN is not N
05:46 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/N3VTt40.png
05:46 AM pink_vampire: any idea how to fix that?
05:46 AM jthornton: morning
05:47 AM XXCoder: the forward push?
05:47 AM pink_vampire: hi jthornton
05:47 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: there is 700mm end to end, and 4kg of force down on the spindle mount
05:48 AM XXCoder: looks like arounbd .17mm
05:48 AM pink_vampire: the spindle is about 4kg or so.. and the cutting force is almost nothing..
05:49 AM pink_vampire: so I did the simulation for 4kg just to get an idea
05:49 AM XXCoder: im not an engineer not too sure how to correct for that
05:49 AM pink_vampire: maybe to add one more rail to the back?
05:51 AM pink_vampire: maybe to support the spindle from both ends?
05:53 AM jym: What if you used thick Y rails?
05:53 AM jym: thicker*
05:53 AM pink_vampire: like 20mm?
05:53 AM jym: try it in the calculator
05:55 AM jym: Morning jthornton
05:55 AM jthornton: pink_vampire, use linear rails instead of rods
05:55 AM jthornton: morning
05:55 AM pink_vampire: jthornton: how to you hold them with printed parts?
05:56 AM jthornton: print a bridge
05:56 AM jthornton: or use some extrusions
05:59 AM pink_vampire: I'm trying to avoid it
06:00 AM pink_vampire: unless you know where I can get them cheap
06:01 AM jym: ...and the trucks too
06:01 AM XXCoder: does that rail have back plate connecting sides?
06:02 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/oVlYtD4.png
06:02 AM XXCoder: doesnt really help it seems
06:02 AM pink_vampire: with 3 rail - from 0.19 to 0.15
06:03 AM pink_vampire: now I will try to flip it
06:03 AM XXCoder: move rear rod upwards a little, and top one forward a little
06:03 AM XXCoder: basically none share a plane on any axis
06:03 AM XXCoder: top one maybe back a little is better dunno how it'd change stresses
06:04 AM pink_vampire: same hardware - https://i.imgur.com/5xaa5FW.png
06:05 AM XXCoder: interesting.
06:05 AM jym: pink_vampire: and 25mm rails?
06:05 AM XXCoder: so if you put spindle pressure point though middle of that front part would it split weight between 2 rods?
06:05 AM pink_vampire: but it will make the router very hard access
06:05 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: correct
06:06 AM pink_vampire: lets see 2 rails original configuration with 25mm,
06:08 AM jthornton: 54F
06:09 AM jym: pink_vampire: https://www.rollon.com/GB/en/products/linear-line/41-speedy-rail/
06:10 AM pink_vampire: and after a while it is grind itself to death
06:11 AM pink_vampire: I want some sort of bearings
06:12 AM pink_vampire: original design with 2 25 rails. https://i.imgur.com/wFYi8xi.png
06:13 AM pink_vampire: it is the best so far
06:13 AM jym: https://www.bwc.com/dualvee.html
06:13 AM XXCoder: theres a lot of leverage. can you add tringular side supports on spindle?
06:14 AM pink_vampire: jym: I hate those things
06:16 AM jym: Just offering ideas that fit with printed parts
06:16 AM pink_vampire: 25mm X 700mm round shaft is US $45.99/ea
06:19 AM jym: pink_vampire: Well, you could use skate bearings
06:20 AM pink_vampire: I'm looking at 3030 aluminum extrusion
06:21 AM jym: pink_vampire: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4A8fxzSV4dw/S6v1iZQOUII/AAAAAAAAAcM/jbjZCtfVz-E/s1600/Holes_Centered.jpg
06:22 AM pink_vampire: jym: I hate it, this is soo ugly
06:22 AM pink_vampire: how about 3060 aluminum extrusion with 2 china rail on it?
06:22 AM jym: pink_vampire: Like I said... Good, fast, cheap.... pink any two
06:22 AM jym: pick*
06:23 AM jym: pink_vampire: You could just use 1/4" alum plate and mount the rails on it
06:23 AM pink_vampire: but how do you mount the 1/4 plate to the block on the X axis?
06:24 AM jym: the same way you mount the round rails you have now
06:27 AM pink_vampire: the aluminum extrusions become very cheap
11:39 AM Loetmichel: re at home from sisters house... the workers have moved a wall yesterday and managed to kill the main power cable to the first floor in the process... sister called yesterday totally in shambles... "no light, no cooking..." so i took a day off, drove 250km, 5 hours of fixing electrics, 250km drive back. The things you do for your kin...
11:43 AM jdh: my sister would have them get it fixed.
11:46 AM Loetmichel: jdh: your sister dosent have a brother that can do it, i assume? ;)
11:46 AM jdh: sure, but why?
11:47 AM Loetmichel: because thats what brothers for... apparently ;)
11:47 AM jdh: that's why you have bonded & insured workers
11:48 AM Loetmichel: or pay some guys to get the work done "under the table" because you cant afford it otherwise
11:48 AM Loetmichel: german houses are made of stone, not wood... so moving a wall takes a bit of jackhammering
01:55 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest50531
02:04 PM BitEvil_ is now known as SpeedEvil
02:40 PM andypugh: SpeedEvil: You could make a very long thread pitch gauge. Operate it like a vernier.
02:40 PM SpeedEvil: yeah - that'd work too
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: how goes the RP4 RT kernel work?
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: been following the thread on the forums a bit
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: I'd work on a solid u-boot port for it first
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: shouldn't be that much work
03:17 PM Deejay: gn8
04:47 PM andypugh: Sand-cast a new base for a pewter tankard: https://photos.app.goo.gl/HCbWmDVE3Yzk3zuy7
04:47 PM andypugh: (Oldest date on there is 1903)
04:50 PM Tom_L: glass bottom?
04:51 PM andypugh: Indeed.
04:51 PM Tom_L: nice
04:51 PM andypugh: Afrer machining: https://photos.app.goo.gl/qzs6CUYG59HjNeYi6
04:52 PM andypugh: I will buy some beer and test it tomorrow :-)
04:52 PM Tom_L: looks too good for the rest of it :)
04:52 PM andypugh: It will patinate in time.
04:52 PM Tom_L: yeah
04:52 PM andypugh: Like another 116 years, with luck.
04:56 PM _unreal_: you.... been drinking out of that aluminum cup?
04:57 PM Tom_L: not aluminum
04:57 PM _unreal_: that is alumuminum ya?
04:57 PM _unreal_: ahh
04:57 PM Tom_L: pewter
05:05 PM _unreal_: is it leaded?
05:05 PM _unreal_: most old pewter has lead
05:06 PM _unreal_: time for a shower
05:06 PM andypugh: Pewter hasn’t contained lead for rather a long time.
05:07 PM sync: the local engine shop was not able to just grind a single main bearing
05:08 PM _unreal_: just did some research for the hell of it. and anything made in china upto the 80's is likekly to have it. and UK anything made after the 50's is less likely to have led
05:09 PM andypugh: Tableware-grade pewter has been lead-free in the UK since the 16th century. Acccording to Wikipedia.
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: I'm working on the sand mold printers, similar to SLA/SLS only with sand
05:09 PM andypugh: We have had one at work for years, though that is sand-layer + binder spray technology.
05:11 PM _unreal_: https://ourpastimes.com/test-pewter-8380973.html
05:11 PM andypugh: I feel that you should be able to do SLS with the shell-core sand: https://www.haworthcastings.co.uk/news/an-overview-of-sand-core-making-in-casting
05:11 PM * _unreal_ googles sand mold printer
05:12 PM Tom_L: i was trying to find a pic of an old in engine crankshaft grinder for sync but i can't find one
05:12 PM Tom_L: wasn't for mains but rod journals
05:13 PM Tom_L: you'd turn the crank with the rear wheel
05:13 PM andypugh: _unreal_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8MaVaqNr3U
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: SLA uses less energy and is faster and I make my own sand+resin
05:15 PM andypugh: I wonder if you could use an IR source to harden the resin
05:15 PM andypugh: ?
05:15 PM CaptHindsight: I have to finish the STL slicing for LCNC, all the hobby stuff is just way to buggy and slow
05:15 PM CaptHindsight: nanoDLP, printrun+projectlayer, etc etc
05:15 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: You have seen my STL slicer?
05:15 PM CaptHindsight: yes
05:16 PM CaptHindsight: I have to integrate it with LCNC G-code
05:16 PM andypugh: I am not claiming that it is any good :-)
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: the next big project will be going beyond G-code for 3d printing for full color support
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: AMF or similar
05:18 PM andypugh: I do feel an urge to make a CMYK extruder.
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additive_manufacturing_file_format
05:18 PM andypugh: Maybe a job for STEP-NC?
05:18 PM _unreal_: andypugh, in the long run I'm just saying I'd suggest at least testing the mug for led. there are a LOT of examples of tainted mugs out there.'
05:19 PM andypugh: _unreal_: It’s OK, I have loads of IQ to spare :-)
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: break time here, the weather today is near perfect
05:19 PM _unreal_: OH.... why didnt ya say so smart ass ;)
05:19 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACIlA7TFmZA
05:20 PM Tom_L: mostly for old babbit bearings
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: sheesh, try getting all the dust out of that
05:21 PM Tom_L: :)
05:21 PM Tom_L: i actually used one once on an old ford pickup
05:21 PM _unreal_: ya I was thinking if thats upside down.. metal filings and cyclnders?
05:22 PM CaptHindsight: it works, just not exactly the best procedure
05:22 PM _unreal_: I would do that with an oil/lub wash in the grinding
05:22 PM _unreal_: during
05:23 PM andypugh: My dad once re-ground a big-end in-situ using only a file and a bent nail as a caliper.
05:24 PM _unreal_: heh
05:24 PM andypugh: This is even true. He was, at the time, an engineering fitter, so filing to shape and fit was his day job.
05:24 PM Tom_L: the rods had those little cup oilers on the bottom of each one
05:25 PM Tom_L: as it went around it would dip into the oil
05:25 PM andypugh: I know them well.
05:25 PM Tom_L: i bet you do
05:26 PM _unreal_: back in maine there is an old hit and miss and tractor repair shop.
05:26 PM _unreal_: What I always found amazing is how many hit and miss power plants are still used in logging in maine
05:27 PM _unreal_: granted I dont live in maine any more but regardless
05:27 PM _unreal_: well time for a shower
05:30 PM andypugh: Tom_L: In fact, here is a set that I made: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8wfMKv38hFKE6UNR8
05:31 PM Tom_L: for the old fire engine?
05:32 PM andypugh: Yes. It only needs 4. Those were a range of sizes to get a good press fit.
05:35 PM Tom_L: i bet that ole guy still has that grinder if he's still alive
05:49 PM _unreal_: grinder?
06:02 PM * jthornton has been bucking rounds, splitting firewood and burning limbs all day...
06:04 PM jthornton: hmm only got to 77F today...
06:08 PM tubes4branes: has anyone used the Googol Technology (HK) Limited motion control cards with Linux CNC?
06:13 PM jthornton: hmm need to figure out how to do a seamless transfer of all my email addresses from webhost4life to dream host...
06:18 PM skunkworks: what a mess... http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20190924_180846.jpg
06:19 PM * jthornton clicks with no care about bandwidth...
06:19 PM skunkworks: Go for it!
06:20 PM skunkworks: (it is 3.2mb)
06:20 PM jthornton: cable management is always an issue
06:20 PM t4nk-freenode: lol... /me had already decided Not to click out of bandwidth concerns ;)
06:20 PM skunkworks: I just threw the pi in there...
06:20 PM * jthornton checks how much bandwidth is left
06:21 PM * t4nk-freenode should have plenty for the day left.. bout 5G
06:21 PM * jthornton only has 10GB a month
06:22 PM jthornton: and I have 2.7GB extra left today
06:22 PM t4nk-freenode: u serious? I have 'unlimited 4g' .. which means I get 5G a day
06:22 PM jthornton: what's on the thumb drive?
06:22 PM jthornton: I live on a dead end dirt road off of a dirt road...
06:22 PM Tom_L: in a swamp
06:23 PM t4nk-freenode: hehe watch your step there Tom_L
06:23 PM skunkworks: jthornton: the config that I copied over for the green machine.
06:24 PM jthornton: the swamp is a few miles away where the prehistoric grinnels live
06:24 PM skunkworks: jthornton: this is following your directions..
06:24 PM jthornton: yikes!
06:25 PM jthornton: skunkworks, what machine is that?
06:25 PM jthornton: ohh a STMBL too
06:26 PM skunkworks: yes - a mishmash of componants.. :)
06:26 PM skunkworks: Other than I am only isolating 1 core..
06:27 PM jthornton: didn't I isolate 1 core?
06:28 PM skunkworks: you did isolcpus 1,2,3
06:28 PM jthornton: I thought I did...
06:29 PM skunkworks: I am doing just isolcpus 3
06:29 PM jthornton: yea I did add that to my cmdline.txt file
06:29 PM skunkworks: it seem to me the userland gets just too slow with only 1 core
06:29 PM jthornton: along with a bunch of other things
06:30 PM jthornton: how much memory does your rpi4 have
06:30 PM skunkworks: yeh - i used your line other than the isolcpus
06:30 PM skunkworks: 4gb
06:31 PM skunkworks: it seems fine as long as you don't run youtube. I will play with it for a while
06:31 PM jthornton: same as me, I've not had a monitor or keyboard connected since installing
06:31 PM jthornton: quiet splash lapic noxsave acpi_osi= isolcpus=1,2,3 idle=poll acpi_irq_nobalance noirqbalance vmalloc=32MB clocksource=acpi_pm net.ifnames=0
06:31 PM skunkworks: the stmbl is running the spindle through spart serial
06:31 PM skunkworks: or smart
06:31 PM jthornton: cool
06:42 PM _unreal_: @#$%@#$@ ass whole software
06:43 PM _unreal_: just figured a way around something
06:43 PM _unreal_: what a pain in the as
06:43 PM _unreal_: ass
06:49 PM _unreal_: or now
06:49 PM _unreal_: not
10:10 PM extorr is now known as extor
11:31 PM justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser
11:39 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ