#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 19 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:43 AM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_kTMDToieE
01:37 AM Loetmichel: MAAN there is a buch of garbage on ebay... just found a set of needle files that had gold plating (i doubt that for 6 eur the set its TiN) on the shafts, NOT on the cutting surface... do you guys thing THIS set will work for sheet alu? -> https://www.ebay.de/itm/Nadelfeilensatz-Lange-160mm-oder-v200mm-6tlg-Hieb-2-i-Ku-Tasche-PROMAT/262616677094
01:37 AM Loetmichel: *think
01:44 AM jesseg: Probably for a little while :P
01:44 AM jesseg: if they are even sharp
01:45 AM jesseg: I dunno, files are pretty old technology. They might actually be decent for the price.
01:45 AM jesseg: And it wouldn't cost much to find out :P
02:19 AM Deejay: moin
05:02 AM jthornton: morning
05:06 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:06 AM XXCoder: probably got my last paycheck stub lol
05:07 AM XXCoder: seems they are going digital. not great
05:14 AM jthornton: direct deposit?
05:15 AM XXCoder: always been direct depost for me
05:15 AM XXCoder: but no more physical stub
05:18 AM jthornton: wife still gets a stub
05:22 AM XXCoder: it sucks but not much i can do
05:23 AM jthornton: do they email your stub?
05:23 AM XXCoder: yeah will do that
05:26 AM Tom_L: morning
05:26 AM jthornton: morning
05:26 AM XXCoder: morning
05:29 AM Tom_L: my kids have an app they go on for theirs
05:29 AM Tom_L: :/
05:31 AM Tom_L: jthornton, do you know much about gmocappy?
05:31 AM sync: I don't think I ever got a physical stub
05:31 AM Tom_L: how to enable the pendant or where it is active in it?
05:32 AM jthornton: lol I can't even spell gmopappty
05:33 AM Tom_L: Lcvette got his going last night and we checked the pins in the show pin watch window but it's not enabled
05:34 AM jthornton: you mean he's not using probe basic?
05:34 AM Tom_L: he will eventually but he's got gmocappy loaded right now
05:34 AM Tom_L: i think that's his next step
05:34 AM Tom_L: i don't think he's gonna spend much time fixing gmocappy
05:35 AM Tom_L: and i've never used it so i had no idea when it came to that
05:40 AM jthornton: I looked at it once and it's much too flashy with way too much crap
05:44 AM sync: not really
08:18 AM Lcvette: jthornton: waiting for hazzy to do a version update
08:18 AM Lcvette: said he would do it when he got back to the state4s
08:47 AM JT-Shop: one tree down, 3 to go
08:52 AM Lcvette: just did the install on the big machine anmd getting this error:
08:52 AM * Lcvette sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/QmbytnjswDRAnLQeRVEJzSqF >
08:53 AM Lcvette: turboss, hazzy, JT-Shop
08:53 AM Lcvette: ?
08:53 AM Lcvette: any ideas?
08:54 AM Lcvette: hazzy: \o/
08:54 AM Lcvette: hurray!
08:55 AM miss0r2: 'ello
11:28 AM JT-Shop: 2, 3, 4 and 5 are down on the ground and safe
01:23 PM Tom_L: Lcvette, ImportError: No module named QtQuickWidgets
01:23 PM Tom_L: install them.
01:29 PM Tom_L: what's lumberjack-thornton up to?
01:43 PM miss0r2: I'm looking for some theory and math that can help me understand and construct a shaper mechanism - this in itself is not hard, but I seem to remember being told that a shaper has a constand cutting speed and a fast retract rate. I can understand the fast retract rate with a basic diagram, but I do not understand how to get the constant cutting speed. it seems to me that is would change slightly
01:51 PM Tom_L: miss0r2, dunno if this is any help or not https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVX70JRihhY
01:52 PM Tom_L: the retract looks to be the same as the feed
01:53 PM miss0r2: it isn't :)
01:53 PM Tom_L: heh
01:54 PM miss0r2: he basically says the same things I know - I just don't have the math and theory to determin the distances needed perhaps
01:54 PM miss0r2: Its hard to ask questions on something you don't know enough about :D
01:54 PM Tom_L: https://web.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-050114-141830/unrestricted/MQP_Paper.pdf
01:54 PM miss0r2: ... but that is when you need to ask it
01:54 PM Tom_L: let's try again...
01:55 PM miss0r2: that looks thorough. I will read that. thanks
01:55 PM miss0r2: hoping it will answer some questions
01:56 PM Tom_L: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233638532_Quick-Return_Mechanism_Design_and_Analysis_Projects
01:56 PM Tom_L: there's another one
01:57 PM Tom_L: https://www.theengineerspost.com/shaper-machine-mechanism/
01:58 PM Tom_L: and the last one i'll post
01:58 PM miss0r2: thanks
01:58 PM gregcnc: http://mm-nitk.vlabs.ac.in/exp29/index.html#
01:59 PM gregcnc: click the simulation
02:01 PM miss0r2: so it is as I thought!
02:01 PM miss0r2: the surface speed changes slightly
02:01 PM gregcnc: sure, but you don't generally use the ends of the stroke
02:01 PM miss0r2: hense the 'slightly'
02:01 PM miss0r2: :)
02:02 PM miss0r2: because it is a little. and quite within reason to call it a constant speed, but it is not. and that is what had me puzzled
02:03 PM gregcnc: return at the ends of the stroke would be brutal otherwise
02:04 PM gregcnc: wait are you building one, because you can't buy one?
02:05 PM gregcnc: linuxcnc? windmill or electric?
02:05 PM miss0r2: wh-wh-whaat?
02:05 PM miss0r2: :D
02:05 PM miss0r2: i'm building a shaper attachment for my trusty old maho
02:05 PM miss0r2: because I can't buy one
02:06 PM gregcnc: sounds like fun
02:06 PM miss0r2: It should be :]
02:06 PM Tom_L: keep us posted on your progress
02:06 PM miss0r2: I have most of the materials lined up already. I just couldn't wrap my head around that
02:06 PM miss0r2: last part (constant speed)
02:07 PM miss0r2: Tom_L: I'll try to remember snapping some photos as I go along. I'm not very good that doing that
02:07 PM gregcnc: dovetail ways or linear elements?
02:07 PM miss0r2: linear elements
02:08 PM miss0r2: I have to 'leftofer' rails 30mm ones, with preloaded carriages
02:08 PM miss0r2: s/to/two
02:09 PM miss0r2: they should handle enough force to basically break my machine before giving in
02:09 PM gregcnc: should save some time
02:09 PM miss0r2: yeah
02:10 PM miss0r2: my vertical head has a parking attachment, so I can swing that to the side, insert an iso40 drive and mount it instead
02:10 PM miss0r2: I am going to mill it out of a slap of 40mm cast iron place I have floating around the shop
02:10 PM miss0r2: do hardened and ground surface inside the sliding slot ect.
02:10 PM miss0r2: alot of planning still needs to go into this tool
03:20 PM miss0r2: meh.. meh..! :D the layout of the spindle output is right where I don't want it!
03:32 PM mr_boo: are these affordable beginner cnc machines free of backlash on the axes?
03:34 PM XXCoder: that depends on a definitions a lot
03:34 PM XXCoder: is $10,000 affordable?"
03:34 PM XXCoder: its not for average person, but very affordable to company
03:34 PM mr_boo: average person was assumed
03:35 PM mr_boo: rather than company
03:37 PM mr_boo: i just found this one now http://tiny.cc/jak1cz
03:40 PM XXCoder: seems good enough for learning cnc stuff
03:40 PM XXCoder: you certainly wull learn a lot about how to dial in a machine
03:40 PM mr_boo: i'd like to have better than 0.1mm precision
03:41 PM XXCoder: dont know if possible with that. I'd call it wood engraver/cutter at best
03:42 PM mr_boo: i'm planning to build a cnc but i start to realize how hard it should be to reach the precision of a commercial cnc provided these beginner stuff really are comparable to a pricier cnc
03:46 PM SpeedEvil: That depends what it's a CNC for.
03:46 PM SpeedEvil: It's not very hard to do precise under low loads.
03:46 PM XXCoder: belts too
03:47 PM XXCoder: harder materials would have enough sideload to push on belt
03:47 PM mr_boo: the cpecifications doesn't mention any anti-backlash nuts
03:47 PM XXCoder: theres couple upgrades I would recommand, remove belts, add antibacklash nuts
03:48 PM XXCoder: but its great as is for certain uses
03:48 PM XXCoder: but your precision level you might have to look elsewhere
03:48 PM mr_boo: then i wont have to be sorry to try to build it myself
03:48 PM SpeedEvil: Easiest way to eliminate backlash is 1mm runout in the spindle
03:49 PM mr_boo: hmm
03:49 PM SpeedEvil: -sort of serious. You need to carefully work out all of the sources of error in your machine and how they add up and which dominates, and what you can do about that.
03:49 PM SpeedEvil: If your rails are bent, and you can fix that with a couple of M8 bolts adjusted appropriately, ...
03:50 PM mr_boo: also while i'm at it i'm gonna make the cnc way bigger
03:50 PM mr_boo: i found this aluminium profile that i plan to use as guides for main axis https://imagebin.ca/v/4vaew3QgTKpt
03:50 PM gregcnc: what was that machine syyl recently bought?
03:52 PM gregcnc: oh yeah stepmores
03:53 PM mr_boo: my attempt to build this machine will probably be a mess but i'm going to try at least
03:53 PM mr_boo: i've got fairly strong steppers NEMA 23 compatible
03:54 PM gregcnc: https://youtu.be/pCUPKkaWlVg
03:54 PM mr_boo: 1.89 Nm according to specs
04:01 PM jthornton: looks like we got us a mail thief...
04:01 PM Tom_L: ruh ro
04:02 PM jthornton: and they are pretty stupid, they do it everyday lol
04:02 PM Tom_L: video?
04:03 PM jthornton: got some trail cameras setup dunno if they caught them today or not
04:03 PM Tom_L: as long as they take my bills and pay em i'm ok with it
04:03 PM Tom_L: i considered a locked mailbox
04:04 PM Tom_L: i caught somebody following the mailman and confronted them a while back
04:05 PM Tom_L: they took off
04:05 PM gregcnc: I got the bearings from ebay today, guy shipped another set
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: must be desperate, trolling mail isn't very profitable
04:06 PM gregcnc: I had a copy of VisualMill stolen 10+ years ago?
04:06 PM JT-Shop: yea I think they are following the mail person because they hit right after the mail was delivered
04:06 PM Tom_L: i'd let them know
04:06 PM Tom_L: i notified mine
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: anyone have a favorite green sand recipe?
04:09 PM Tom_L: mmm that was for refractories
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: mr_boo: https://my.mech.utah.edu/~me7960/lectures/Topic14-DesignOfMachineStructures.pdf might be of interest to you
04:10 PM gregcnc: capthindsight Rt 12 Rental if you ever need to rent one of these https://www.jlg.com/en/equipment/drop-deck-trailers/flatbed-trailers/7610-flatbed-trailer
04:11 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, rue did this one: https://www.instructables.com/id/Greensand-Aluminum-Casting/
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: what the rate per day-ish?
04:12 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure he has a magic mix for it
04:12 PM gregcnc: a lot $185
04:13 PM gregcnc: Burris in Volo has the No ramp, for 125, but can't take it out of state
04:15 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: did you move a lathe with it?
04:15 PM gregcnc: not yet I have a small vmc to pick up
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: I'll be moving the matsuura again soon but thats ~16K lbs
04:16 PM gregcnc: moving space again?
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
04:17 PM gregcnc: round here?
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: looking closer to the city
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: tired of the area
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: and crappy building owner
04:18 PM gregcnc: oh that sucks
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: 1/3 of the building has moved out this year
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: vote with your $$
04:19 PM gregcnc: someone weeds to start a wework for shop space
04:21 PM Deejay: gn8
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: I have a loading dock so anything that unloads at dock height is a snap for me
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: for big machines I use a tiltbed and a drive in door
04:28 PM gregcnc: winch up/down on on the tilt?
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: yes
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: things like a bridgeport are easy, they back up to sellers garage door and pull it up
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: $1k ? https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bfs/d/elk-grove-village-lathe/6981896668.html
04:38 PM gregcnc: i think it's been listed before
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: looks familiar, what brand?
04:45 PM gregcnc: old jet 1236
05:18 PM mr_boo: CaptHindsight: thanks for the link
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: mr_boo: they show how to stiffen tube so it also dampens vibration
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: silican sand sales, silica sand sales silica sand sales
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: see i messed it up
06:07 PM jthornton: confirm your email is that just to see if you copy and pasted it correctly?
06:23 PM _unreal_: I'm HOME in linux finally
06:23 PM _unreal_: going to mill one of the last parts for my daughters cnc machine right now
06:26 PM Lcvette: Tom_L: I got probe basic installed today but the pendant still didn't work
06:26 PM Lcvette: :(
06:27 PM Lcvette: Devil pendent
06:27 PM * _unreal_ is finally back in linux
06:27 PM _unreal_: OMG
06:27 PM _unreal_: I sooo need to get my desktop working on windows so I dont have to deal with rebooting this laptop
06:33 PM * jthornton is so worn out today...
06:36 PM Tom_L: Lcvette it just wants you to send it to me
06:36 PM Tom_L: jthornton, keep it up and you can join a logging crew
06:36 PM Lcvette: Lol
06:37 PM Tom_L: probe basic is beyond my realm of expertice
06:38 PM jthornton: Tom_L, no thanks they work much too hard for an old fart like me... a little logging goes a long way in my book
06:38 PM Tom_L: heh
06:38 PM _unreal_: so does a little probing :)
06:38 PM Tom_L: end of the day you know you did a good days work
06:39 PM jthornton: yep soon I'll be earning my paycheck back
06:39 PM Tom_L: Lcvette you saw all the signals in the watch window right?
06:40 PM Lcvette: But it wasn't moving anything
06:40 PM Lcvette: <jthornton "yep soon I'll be earning my payc"> Tom_L: yeah, everything
06:40 PM Lcvette: Baffling
06:40 PM Lcvette: Probably one little line of something
06:49 PM Tom_L: andypugh, any experience with pendants and gmocappy?
07:01 PM Tom_L: Lcvette, have you read 7.2.1 here? http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gui/gmoccapy-hu.html
07:14 PM jthornton: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/calling-any-one-from-missouri.73271/page-1070#post-21774248
07:15 PM andypugh: Tom_L. No, neither, as it happens.
07:16 PM Tom_L: ok thanks anyway
07:17 PM andypugh: And on that unhelpful note, it’s time to say goodnight.
07:18 PM Tom_L: heh
07:25 PM Lcvette: Tom_L: yeah i read that last night, but I didn't understand it's relevance
07:25 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/gmoccapy.html
07:25 PM Tom_L: read 5.2
07:26 PM Tom_L: then go read that pendant.hal file i posted yesterday
07:26 PM Tom_L: some homework...
08:57 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest31591
09:11 PM Tom_L: pcw_home around?
09:20 PM Tom_L: net x-jog-select joint.0.jog-enable <= hm2_7i92.0.7i77.0.0.input-20.in_not
09:20 PM Tom_L: generates an error
09:21 PM Tom_L: is there another syntax to invert the input pin?
09:22 PM skunkworks: what is the error?
09:22 PM Tom_L: https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/KHttgLvGEJtUveddKMypsRcD
09:22 PM Tom_L: without the .in_not it's ok
09:24 PM Tom_L: i'm not familiar with that board so i'm not sure if that pin is gpio but it should be
09:40 PM Lcvette: should we switch to over here?
09:40 PM Lcvette: Tom_L
09:40 PM Lcvette: ?
09:41 PM Tom_L: i don't care
09:41 PM Lcvette: ok
09:41 PM Lcvette: i9 guess we are gonna wait for peter
09:42 PM Lcvette: and i will throw it on the foprum and see if anyone has any ideas that may be playing in 2.9 as well
09:42 PM Tom_L: you say the enable led changes state but the TRUE FALSE does not?
09:43 PM Tom_L: that could be a screen refresh thing too
09:43 PM Lcvette: correct
09:43 PM Lcvette: when enabled the led goes from red to yello
09:43 PM Lcvette: but the false sdtatement remain false
09:44 PM Tom_L: ok, here's my thoughts on that
09:44 PM Tom_L: even if the one axis is changing state the other two are not
09:45 PM Tom_L: so at least one and possibly 2 axis couuld or should be moving at once
09:45 PM Tom_L: because they are not all enabled at the same time
09:45 PM Tom_L: so reversing the logic may do nothing here
09:45 PM Lcvette: sec
09:45 PM Tom_L: does that make sense?
09:45 PM Tom_L: you have 3 axis that _can_ move
09:46 PM Tom_L: only one should but if the logic is reversed, the other 2 would move
09:47 PM Tom_L: i'm running out of ideas
09:49 PM * Lcvette uploaded an image: Screenshot_2019-09-19_22-42-38.png (47KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/GatslZolqKcRtHHjAjgSESpZ >
09:49 PM * Lcvette uploaded an image: Screenshot_2019-09-19_22-42-53.png (47KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/YmtVdijElgzhERPGkeIStNCC >
09:49 PM * Lcvette uploaded an image: Screenshot_2019-09-19_22-43-03.png (47KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/QddgJfEBvFDqBtuAxLHNpHmS >
09:49 PM Lcvette: Tom_L: it switches bvetween the 3 axis with the selector
09:49 PM Lcvette: see above
09:50 PM Tom_L: you get what i'm saying about the movement?
09:50 PM Lcvette: or i guess i should say joints not axis's
09:51 PM Tom_L: so the .in_not is likely not the solution
09:51 PM Lcvette: you mean on the inverse?
09:51 PM Tom_L: yes
09:51 PM Lcvette: no i was thinking the same thing earlier
09:51 PM Tom_L: if the logic needed to be reversed, the two red dot axis would move
09:51 PM Lcvette: yup im with ya
09:52 PM Tom_L: and the yellow would be idle
09:52 PM Lcvette: yup
09:52 PM Lcvette: it is showing the selector working in the joint pins properly
09:52 PM Lcvette: its perplexing
09:52 PM Lcvette: someone is going to say ph yeah do yada yada yada line and it will work im sure
09:52 PM Tom_L: borderline a bug
09:53 PM Lcvette: im glad youn are seeing it with me cause if i werte alone i would be losing my mind
09:53 PM Tom_L: i wish you could A: try axis gui and or B: try 2.7
09:54 PM Lcvette: not sure if i can just swwap axis in for qtpyvcp in the in?
09:54 PM Tom_L: pretty sure
09:54 PM Lcvette: hang on let me give it a whirl
09:54 PM Lcvette: although it didn't work in gmoccapy either so im not hopeful
09:55 PM Tom_L: display = axis
09:55 PM Lcvette: big long debug error message
09:56 PM Tom_L: ok forget that for now
09:56 PM Lcvette: lots of stuff refering to my toolchange stuf
09:56 PM Lcvette: rather not mess with that
09:56 PM Lcvette: lol
09:58 PM Lcvette: pcw_home where are you big chief?
09:58 PM Lcvette: lol
09:58 PM Lcvette: neeeds your expertise please!
09:58 PM Tom_L: ok i'm out
09:59 PM Lcvette: Tom_L: me too, thanks again for your help tom_l!
09:59 PM Lcvette: you da man!
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: Expired today https://patents.google.com/patent/US6155331A/en
10:32 PM Rab: That's an interesting one.
10:41 PM CaptHindsight: using high powered projectors vs a laser makes this the fastest and most cost effective sand mold printing process