#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 11 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:29 AM Loetmichel: *bah* never drive to work still half asleep... Totally forgot that there is road construction on the way... being totally relaxed at 120kph on the left lane, trying to overtake a Semi... "OH SHI*!!!!11111" ABS still works on the old car... managed to stop 1 foot in front of such a warning pillar that indicates left lane disappearing... reeked a bit of rubber when i came to a full stop. :-(
02:00 AM Deejay: moin
02:52 AM naftilos76: Hi, is linuxcnc still alive?
02:52 AM naftilos76: I bought a milling cnc 3018pro and was wondering if linuxcnc can work with it
02:52 AM naftilos76: Has anybody tried it?
02:53 AM Loetmichel: naftilos76: of course it can
02:54 AM naftilos76: any personal experience?
02:54 AM naftilos76: the cnc i bought is quite popular
02:54 AM Loetmichel: just toss the USB->LPT adapter and connect the driver box to a real LPT port on the PC instead
02:54 AM Loetmichel: i have a couple CNC 6040 that come basically with the same driver box
02:54 AM naftilos76: it needs a parallel port?
02:55 AM naftilos76: not sure i understand you
02:56 AM naftilos76: the cnc i bought is based on an arduino uno with a mega328 chip and currently has grbl 1.1 ver
02:56 AM naftilos76: does that help?
02:56 AM Loetmichel: oh, i stand corrected, the 3018 doesent come with a driver box... it starts at 3040
02:56 AM Loetmichel: sorry fir misinforming
02:56 AM Loetmichel: no idea then if it is LinuxCNC compatibe
02:56 AM naftilos76: so my cnc need a usb connection
02:56 AM naftilos76: ok thanks
02:57 AM Loetmichel: if all fails one can find the step/dir inputs on the driver chips, disable the CPu on the driver board and solder an LPT to that
03:02 AM Loetmichel: usually those USB boards have a simple 8 bit MCu on them and some sort of GRBL or similar gcode interpreter on it
03:02 AM Loetmichel: the USB is just a "serial adapter"
03:02 AM Loetmichel: where you send the gcode to the CPU
03:02 AM Loetmichel: so if you can get "behind" the MCU on said board and feed the stepper drivers directly with TTL signals you can use LinuxCNC in "LPT mode"
03:02 AM naftilos76: Loetmichel: Thanks but that is not a real-world possibility. It not because i can't but because i have a ready-to work cnc and just trying to find linux-based cnc software
03:03 AM naftilos76: this is my first time and i am trying to learn
03:04 AM Loetmichel: point was: it doesent need LinuxCNC IF you are content with the way it works now
03:04 AM naftilos76: i am trying candle 1.1.7 at the moment
03:04 AM naftilos76: unfortunately in win7
03:04 AM Loetmichel: if you want better 3d handling and accelerating it may be useful to use LinuxCNC, but thats your decision
03:04 AM naftilos76: maybe at a later stage
03:04 AM naftilos76: no time
03:05 AM * Loetmichel uses CamBam (win) to generate Gcode from DXFs and STLs for linuxCNC
03:05 AM naftilos76: the problem i seem to have now is that engraving a rectange results in the rectangle being smaller than the one i see in Candle and i do not know why
03:06 AM Loetmichel: should work for those GRBL clones, too
03:06 AM naftilos76: anyway thanks
03:20 AM Loetmichel: fun fact: both my CNC 6040 came with an USB-> LPT adapter... or so i thought
03:21 AM Loetmichel: turns out in that DB25 plug is a full MCU and GRBL ;)
03:24 AM naftilos76: probably yes...
03:25 AM Loetmichel: not probanly, verified ;)
03:25 AM naftilos76: Loetmichel: Is there some kind of param that plays the roll of a scale factor?
03:25 AM naftilos76: when it comes to cnc software?
03:25 AM Loetmichel: yes, there is usually a step/mm setting in GRBL
03:25 AM Loetmichel: if that is set wrong you have said size problems
03:25 AM Loetmichel: can even only be on one axis
03:26 AM naftilos76: ok then i will have to deal with that
03:26 AM naftilos76: i think i know where it is!
03:26 AM naftilos76: thanks very much
03:26 AM naftilos76: as i said i am new
03:28 AM naftilos76: Does that get sent via g-code to the cnc?
03:28 AM naftilos76: any idea?
03:29 AM naftilos76: Loetmichel: ?
03:39 AM Loetmichel: IIRC it get sent via gcode
03:39 AM Loetmichel: but its a long time since i did anything with GRBL, so i might be wrong
03:39 AM naftilos76: looking into it thanks
03:39 AM Loetmichel: sorry for the delay, i am at work and have to work sometimes ;)
03:40 AM naftilos76: absolutely - sorry to bther you man
03:40 AM Loetmichel: as i said: you can basically open a terminal to the USBserial and send gcodes by hand there
03:40 AM Loetmichel: and get responses like print out variables
03:40 AM naftilos76: there is a terminal in candle
03:40 AM naftilos76: where you can send commands
03:40 AM Loetmichel: kinda like a 3dprinter with marlin works
03:40 AM Loetmichel: (which is a GRBL fork btw)
03:41 AM naftilos76: and a field where you can save commands when s/w starts
03:42 AM Loetmichel: https://github.com/gnea/grbl/wiki/Grbl-v1.1-Configuration <- hope that helps
03:43 AM naftilos76: oh great! thanks
04:09 AM t4nk-freenode: haven't been awesomely successful with my dvd steppers and the rods I must say...
04:09 AM t4nk-freenode: ;)
04:10 AM t4nk-freenode: I took a dvd stepper out of its 'container', just to see that the shaft is loose inside it.. it needs some constant pressure to keep it in place
04:11 AM t4nk-freenode: then I tried a stepper from a scanner.. at 5v.. that was even worse; no power at all
04:12 AM Loetmichel: if you can get some old 5.25" floopy drives : they have good steppers in them
04:12 AM t4nk-freenode: I connected the motors to my existing 'cnc', but I'll setup another microcontroller later, with an h-bridge of fets.. don't want to demolish my cnc in the process
04:13 AM t4nk-freenode: somehow I still feel a dvd stepper could do the trick though
04:13 AM * Loetmichel has hoarded quite a few steppers in his lifetime... ;)
04:13 AM * t4nk-freenode is jealous
04:13 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4722&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:13 AM t4nk-freenode: aint got no steppers, aint got no money ;)
04:14 AM Loetmichel: didnt pay for any of them
04:14 AM Loetmichel: all scrapped out of various devices
04:16 AM t4nk-freenode: I still got the regular dc motors from the printers.. along with encoders.. but I don't really fancy that because of the hassle reading the encoders with my microcontroller
04:16 AM t4nk-freenode: I think if I connected them, they would be able to drive the rod though
04:16 AM * Loetmichel scrapped a bunch of printers a few years ago... got quite a yield of them:
04:16 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13248&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:17 AM t4nk-freenode: lol.. nice pile
04:17 AM Loetmichel: recycling guy said he would only take those laser printers if we remove the plastic shell... so i took the liberty to remove something more... his loss ;)
04:18 AM t4nk-freenode: the shorter motors in the picture.. are they scanner motors?
04:18 AM t4nk-freenode: lol
04:18 AM Loetmichel: stepeprs
04:18 AM Loetmichel: steppers
04:18 AM Loetmichel: the long motors are DC24V with encoder
04:18 AM t4nk-freenode: yeh, but scanner steppers I mean
04:18 AM Loetmichel: basically servos
04:19 AM Loetmichel: no, i didnt remove the laser unit
04:19 AM Loetmichel: they are all from paper/toner drum handling
04:20 AM t4nk-freenode: the scanner stepper I salvaged( or rather the printer I destroyed), says 'em-600' on its casing; it is about 3times as thin as the motors in the picture
04:20 AM Loetmichel: the only BLDC motor in that picture is the one front right with the PCB attached
04:20 AM Loetmichel: ah. you meant a multifunction printer with a scanner on top?
04:21 AM t4nk-freenode: I wanna give it a higher voltage tonight with my h-bridge
04:21 AM Loetmichel: nope, those were old colour laser printers without a scanner
04:21 AM t4nk-freenode: yes, I got 3 of them printers here
04:21 AM t4nk-freenode: gotta reboot.
04:21 AM Loetmichel: i thought you meant laser scanneer mirror motors
04:22 AM t4nk-freenode: mmm..no.. but I'm afraid these days there are no decent motors inside printers anymore
04:22 AM t4nk-freenode: amazing how they can get away by putting nothing but cheap junk in there... and still produce such nice machines
04:56 AM jthornton: morning
04:57 AM Deejay: hey
04:58 AM XXCoder: heys
04:58 AM t4nk-freenode: a very 'gnate' to you, Deejay
04:58 AM XXCoder: jthornton: machine arrived
04:58 AM XXCoder: damn its crazy big
04:58 AM jthornton: which one?
04:58 AM XXCoder: new one I talked about, the reason we expanded door from 10ft to 12
04:59 AM jthornton: ah at work
04:59 AM XXCoder: yeah will upload picture later lol
05:02 AM jthornton: I got the Ender 3 together yesterday
05:03 AM XXCoder: awesome. how does it print
05:05 AM jthornton: not tried it yet, still tweaking it
05:06 AM jthornton: trying to get the XY home position to be on the build plate lol
05:07 AM Loetmichel: hint: you can store xyz offsets in the marlin firmware, i just forgot the gcode for that
05:08 AM Loetmichel: home switch offsets i mean
05:08 AM jthornton: it looks like the build plate is bigger than 220mm x 220mm too
05:09 AM jthornton: hmm M503 returns all the settings
05:30 AM Tom_L: morning
05:31 AM XXCoder: yo
05:39 AM jthornton: https://all3dp.com/2/ender-3-with-marlin-how-to-install-marlin-firmware-on-your-ender-3/
05:41 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: builtplate on an ender3 is 235mm
05:42 AM jthornton: yep that's what mine is 9.25"
05:44 AM jthornton: do you have automatic bed leveling on yours?
05:48 AM net|: https://github.com/tecan/Arduino-SOD << started a SOD port to arduino
06:31 AM R2E4: Mornin
06:33 AM jthornton: yo
07:10 AM XXCoder: jthornton: https://imgur.com/a/mlrjwsU
07:11 AM XXCoder: install still in progress
07:11 AM XXCoder: you can see wood its on still waiting for bolts install then concerete pour
07:13 AM jthornton: that's a big one
07:13 AM XXCoder: yeah.
07:14 AM XXCoder: back end (rails and etc) is twice again that "machining area".
07:14 AM XXCoder: so its square-ish machine
07:14 AM XXCoder: its interesting that it has 4th axis also
07:15 AM XXCoder: or 5th I guess since cpompany plans to add 4th lol
07:19 AM XXCoder: i doubt I will run that machine
07:19 AM XXCoder: its only for very big parts and primarily certain pipes
07:20 AM XXCoder: oh yeah jt see the lighting lol
07:22 AM XXCoder: jthornton: just noticed that head possibly have ability to rotate not sure to
07:23 AM XXCoder: gonna go bed later
07:48 AM sync: looks cheap
07:59 AM * jthornton just saw a basset hound and a pig walking down the road
08:20 AM Elmo40: interesting
08:21 AM Elmo40: any painted stick with them? or conch shell?
08:21 AM Elmo40: <Skinny legs and all (Novel):Tom Robbins>
08:22 AM Elmo40: it was a WEIRD ass book!
08:29 AM sensille: damn, not on audible
10:23 AM FinboySlick: It's so quiet in here... Are you all mourning Bolton's departure ;)
10:25 AM roycroft: don't even start about him :)
10:27 AM FinboySlick: I conveniently have to reboot...
10:29 AM Loetmichel: whom?
10:30 AM FinboySlick: That didn't take too long.
10:32 AM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: whose departure?
10:32 AM FinboySlick: Mr War Mustache John Bolton.
10:33 AM pcw_home: Bomb-em Bolton
10:34 AM roycroft: he is the walrus
10:34 AM FinboySlick: I think it can be generally accepted as a pretty damn good news.
10:34 AM roycroft: bomb bomb iran, bomb bomb iran
10:34 AM roycroft: he's almost as hated by the right as he is by the left
10:35 AM Loetmichel: hmm, no idea who you are talkign about
10:35 AM roycroft: and when he and the president were together, the president was the grown-up in the room
10:35 AM roycroft: our former national security advisor
10:35 AM roycroft: who was also our un ambassador for a brief period, after being overwhelmingly rejected by the senate but installed by recess appointment
10:36 AM Loetmichel: but i think if i say "AKK did some stupid thing ordering the city adviory boards to "unelect" the city mayor of the NPD party" you will be as lost as i am ;)
10:36 AM roycroft: to say he's a hawk would be to say that a stick of dynamite is a match
10:37 AM pcw_home: Yeah I think its safe to say his departure was celebrated on both sides if the aisle
10:49 AM jthornton: Loetmichel, on your ender 3 do you print on the black mat or did you add a piece of glass?
10:57 AM t4nk-freenode: say, those hp printers are even worse than epson printers... not even a stepper for the scanner motor... plain dinky-toy dc motor in it
11:09 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: black mat
11:09 AM Loetmichel: thats what its made for
11:09 AM Loetmichel: be aware that it sticks to PLA like crazy
11:10 AM Loetmichel: be careful when removing prints, because a putty knife CAN and WILL damage the PEI mat when used incorrectly
11:10 AM Loetmichel: t4nk-freenode: DC servos are cheaper to manufacture than steppers
11:11 AM Loetmichel: also they have more torque for a given volume
11:11 AM Loetmichel: so if you have enough cpu power to make it a servo with an encoder you are better off using DC motors.
11:11 AM Loetmichel: Also they have brushes that wear down, effectively limiting useful life
11:12 AM Loetmichel: good thing when looked at from a manufacturers point of view
11:15 AM t4nk-freenode: yeh, I've been thinking, now that I can sorta discard the idea of using dvd steppers( I will still set up some tests though), that maybe I could use the bigger dc motors with their encoders from the printers
11:15 AM t4nk-freenode: but the processing power is gonna be an issue I think; using a pic to drive things, running 12MIPS
11:16 AM Loetmichel: to be honest: buy a cheap 80 eur 3dprinter kit and you'll have anything you need to build a small CNC mill
11:16 AM Loetmichel: exept good acme threads
11:16 AM t4nk-freenode: yeh, but.. I like building my own, like with the minicnc
11:17 AM t4nk-freenode: I am thinking about maybe ordering a few motors though, and some driver chips, h-bridges
11:17 AM t4nk-freenode: but I gotta wait a bit till I got some money to spare
11:18 AM Loetmichel: t4nk-freenode: i didnt say build a 3dprinter
11:18 AM t4nk-freenode: for now I'll setup a pic with an h-bridge and run some tests; I still hope I can find a way to use dvd steppers
11:19 AM Loetmichel: but in those cheap kits are 4 or 5 steppers (usually two for z, one extruder) a four/five channel driver board that already speaks gcode, and linear "ways" (rods with LM*UU)
11:20 AM Loetmichel: so you have the most parts that are needed for a CNC router
11:20 AM Loetmichel: it usually even comes with two acme rods (for z) and fitting brass nuts
11:20 AM t4nk-freenode: the mechanical side of things will be an issue since I am blessed with two left hands,
11:21 AM Loetmichel: where are you from?
11:21 AM t4nk-freenode: but the technical side of things.. I am not having anything bought, I already have my stuff in place
11:21 AM t4nk-freenode: Holland, Loetmichel
11:21 AM Loetmichel: ah, i remember
11:22 AM Loetmichel: if the electronics side is working i could make you some mechanical parts and bring them to you if you whish
11:22 AM Loetmichel: its not THAT far from Frankfurt am main ;)
11:22 AM t4nk-freenode: ;)
11:22 AM t4nk-freenode: I was gonna remark that
11:23 AM t4nk-freenode: that you were from frankfurt
11:23 AM t4nk-freenode: saw sth when I browsed your pictures
11:24 AM t4nk-freenode: but my plan is.. get at least something going, flimsy or not, but then I could build the next 'mechanical stuff' with that
11:25 AM t4nk-freenode: that's what I like about it. When I was at the hardware store yesterday, I had a look at some materials. MDF seems rather cheap
11:25 AM t4nk-freenode: thinking of using that for a base
11:25 AM t4nk-freenode: I saw 4mm, 10mm and 12mm I think
11:27 AM t4nk-freenode: somehow I was convinced that dc motors wouldn't be as suitable for my cnc, but now I'm getting curious what the resolution etc would be. First goal will still be to manufacture my own 'pcb's', the way I see it, just drilling holes mainly
11:32 AM t4nk-freenode: heh, when I was young.. I sometimes took my Zündapp, and my girlfriend, and we would drive up to 'grefrad' orsth, near krefeld
11:32 AM t4nk-freenode: I live in tilburg
11:34 AM Loetmichel: actually i am from Offenach am main, but thats less than 10km to frankfurt city
11:34 AM t4nk-freenode: the composer
11:34 AM t4nk-freenode: ah
11:34 AM t4nk-freenode: ach
11:34 AM t4nk-freenode: ;)
11:34 AM Loetmichel: MDF is a suboptimal material for CNC machines
11:35 AM Loetmichel: it reacts to changes in humidity with lots of distorsion/movement
11:35 AM Loetmichel: also it swells up to nearly twice its size if some water drops onto it
11:35 AM t4nk-freenode: lol, yes
11:35 AM Loetmichel: gräfraht?
11:35 AM Loetmichel: gräfrath
11:36 AM t4nk-freenode: but you mean... if you were making something that took hours... then changes in humidity would mess things up
11:36 AM Loetmichel: for making a CNC router better use something like "siebdruckplatte"
11:36 AM t4nk-freenode: 'zeefdruk'
11:36 AM Loetmichel: i.e "multiplex" plywood with a waterproof glue
11:37 AM Loetmichel: its MUCH better for that pourpose
11:37 AM Loetmichel: see: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
11:37 AM Loetmichel: :-)
11:37 AM t4nk-freenode: mmmmm I stood at the multiplex department yesterday, and sort of dismissed that somehow
11:37 AM t4nk-freenode: perhaps because I saw 'triplex' first.. and wanted to run away ;)
11:38 AM Loetmichel: ... the only thing MDF is the "sacrificial board" on that machine... because it is easy to put screws in and face off if it gets to mangled
11:39 AM Loetmichel: everything else is 21mm "siebdruckplatte"
11:39 AM t4nk-freenode: *sigh* .. that's a nice area to work with, in that picture
11:40 AM Loetmichel: yes, its travel area was 1700*1200*200mm or something in that ballpark
11:41 AM Loetmichel: could even be 250mm in z, cant remember
11:42 AM t4nk-freenode: those multiplex boards won't be cheap at all I reckon
11:42 AM jthornton: Loetmichel, thanks
11:42 AM t4nk-freenode: especially that big
11:42 AM Loetmichel: IIRC it was about 600 eur in wood alone ;)
11:42 AM t4nk-freenode: pffff
11:42 AM Loetmichel: and about 1500 "spax" screws ;)
11:43 AM Loetmichel: problem is the inside of the base plate
11:43 AM * t4nk-freenode is now contemplating scavenging waste containers for some nice wood ;)
11:43 AM Loetmichel: it looks like this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4053
11:44 AM Loetmichel: it eats a lot of wood but is rigid as hell if you mount a second plate on that
11:44 AM t4nk-freenode: is that just to fortify it?
11:44 AM Loetmichel: yes
11:44 AM t4nk-freenode: and the holes to keep it somewhat lighter?
11:44 AM Loetmichel: golden rule for having rigid construcions: "make boxes"
11:44 AM Loetmichel: the holes are for weight and to feed cables thru
11:46 AM * t4nk-freenode looks over to the right and sees a mangled dvd-stepper and two fets on a breadboard..
11:46 AM t4nk-freenode: ;)
11:47 AM t4nk-freenode: and a threaded cutting rod ;)
11:47 AM t4nk-freenode: with a nut!
11:47 AM Loetmichel: you are aware that you need 4 fets to drive a stepper?
11:48 AM t4nk-freenode: not if you have a dual supply
11:48 AM t4nk-freenode: ;)
11:48 AM Loetmichel: either 4 identical to ground for an unipolar one or 8 in two H-bridge configs to drive a bipolar one?
11:49 AM skunkworks: Don't make your own stepper drives...
11:49 AM t4nk-freenode: why not?
11:49 AM Loetmichel: even with bipolar supply you still need four transistors
11:49 AM t4nk-freenode: yes
11:49 AM Loetmichel: because stepper drivers are dirt cheap
11:49 AM skunkworks: You can get them so cheap now. Waste time on other projects :)
11:50 AM skunkworks: and they will turn circles around watever you make..
11:50 AM t4nk-freenode: hehe, but you can get the chips on them for even cheaper too
11:50 AM Loetmichel: skunkworks: its nice to learn how stepper drivers and steppers work if you do them yourself
11:50 AM t4nk-freenode: I saw some 100+ $ boards.. that had 4 $2,50 chips on them as the main parts
11:50 AM Loetmichel: but otherwise i would concur: no need to reinvent the wheel
11:50 AM t4nk-freenode: I mean..
11:51 AM t4nk-freenode: hehe
11:51 AM skunkworks: sure
11:51 AM t4nk-freenode: I did everything myself, ... hacked the existing dvd driver ic's.. up to the asm framework on my pic
11:51 AM t4nk-freenode: I like it that way
11:51 AM t4nk-freenode: However... yeh, it can be tedious
11:52 AM t4nk-freenode: and building your own h-bridges is .. well.. crazy ;)
11:52 AM t4nk-freenode: too many damned transistors on top
11:52 AM * Loetmichel always has a stack of Tb6560 in the drawer
11:53 AM Loetmichel: not the best chip but cheap as hell and very few external components needed
11:53 AM Loetmichel: (also very sensitive to misuse, thats why i have so many in spare ;)
11:54 AM skunkworks: I did the same thing.. but that was in the early 90's - when they were expensive...
11:54 AM skunkworks: and they sucked :)
11:55 AM skunkworks: certainly didn't perform like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mudZ739aWnQ
11:56 AM t4nk-freenode: it's certainly nice with all them heatsinks and stuff, on prebuilt boards
11:56 AM Loetmichel: skunkworks: tb6560 came to be aviable for the enduser in about 2005
11:57 AM Loetmichel: in the nineties you probably used L297/L298
11:57 AM skunkworks: iirc - I talked a semiconductor company out of some samples
11:57 AM jthornton: Loetmichel, so far I'm liking the Ender 3, only a few things I didn't like...
11:58 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: i am listening
11:59 AM Loetmichel: skunkworks: i wouldnt call that "bad performance" either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYgyqjHCBLg
11:59 AM Loetmichel: and that WERE TB6560 in the base
11:59 AM skunkworks: Loetmichel: OMG - i had one of those
12:00 PM t4nk-freenode: Loetmichel, one question.. your nickname.. is it lötmichel?
12:00 PM skunkworks: cable driven.. about .007" per step
12:01 PM Loetmichel: its a bit frightening to see that thing move at 35000 IPM ;)
12:01 PM FinboySlick: t4nk-freenode: Some people use AC brushless RC motors with encoders too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT4E5nb3KtY
12:02 PM Loetmichel: sorry, one "time 60" to many
12:02 PM Loetmichel: only 590 IPM
12:02 PM Loetmichel: still frightening
12:02 PM t4nk-freenode: Holy moly FinboySlick ...
12:03 PM t4nk-freenode: I wouldn't want to be that felt tip though
12:03 PM Loetmichel: hihi
12:04 PM Loetmichel: i would say: that thing was SO short of igniting ;)
12:04 PM jthornton: the plastic Z stepper mount doesn't line up the shaft at the top, had to shim it with some paper
12:04 PM t4nk-freenode: hehe yeh
12:04 PM jthornton: I'll make an aluminum one...
12:04 PM t4nk-freenode: you can also bet that chap got hit in the face by it a few times
12:04 PM Loetmichel: jthornton: noticed that
12:05 PM jthornton: yea it draws the tip of the lead screw into the vertical
12:05 PM Loetmichel: buit could made working by just losen the nut retainer screws until it moves freely and then put a drop of CA glue on said screws
12:05 PM Loetmichel: on my two enders
12:05 PM jthornton: on the T nut screws?
12:06 PM Loetmichel: no, other end
12:06 PM Loetmichel: on the drive nut in the x axis beam
12:06 PM Loetmichel: the ACME rod is slightly tilted now
12:06 PM Loetmichel: but it works fine
12:07 PM Loetmichel: shimming the motor would have been the better idea, i agree
12:07 PM t4nk-freenode: is 'brass nut' a term btw, or do they have to be brass?
12:07 PM jthornton: I managed to get the drive screw parallel to the extrusion
12:07 PM jthornton: if it's brass it's brass
12:07 PM Loetmichel: t4nk-freenode: brass and chromed threaded rods are a pretty good gliding pair
12:08 PM Loetmichel: so usually you make your nut wear, not the threaded rod or both
12:08 PM t4nk-freenode: nice
12:08 PM Loetmichel: so the pairing "steel thread, brass nut" is pretty common for everything moving
12:09 PM t4nk-freenode: but the nut will probably wear out sooner
12:09 PM Loetmichel: yes, but its easy to change the nut
12:09 PM Loetmichel: if the threaded rod wears thats USUALLy a lot more work to change
12:09 PM Loetmichel: not on 3dprinters but on conventional machinery
12:10 PM Loetmichel: so the "industiral standard" for acme thread linear drives is steel thread, brass (or bronce) nut
12:10 PM Loetmichel: BECAUSE its a nice glide pair
12:11 PM Loetmichel: if you wanted to you could also make the rod of brass and the nut hardened steel
12:11 PM Loetmichel: then the rod would wear
12:11 PM Loetmichel: but that isnt done often
12:11 PM t4nk-freenode: seems like a hard taske to construct something rigid, stirdy and fitting together without 'leeway' or space, movement
12:11 PM Loetmichel: worst is stainless steel rod, stainless steel nut. that tends to weld togehter if you drive fast
12:12 PM jthornton: Loetmichel, the Ender 3 does print MUCH better than the flsun prusa clone!\
12:12 PM t4nk-freenode: stainless steel rods were expensive too btw
12:12 PM Loetmichel: jthornton: indeed it does!
12:12 PM jthornton: I was impressed for the price
12:13 PM Loetmichel: t4nk-freenode: i cant tell you how many M3 stainless screws i had to drill out when the coworkers decided to screw them into the monitors with the battery drill on second gear (1300RPM)
12:13 PM Loetmichel: they literally weld themselves into the steel frame threads
12:14 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14412&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
12:14 PM Loetmichel: THESE monitors/thin clients... 142 M§ stainless screws
12:14 PM Loetmichel: :-)
12:14 PM Loetmichel: m3
12:14 PM t4nk-freenode: what the!? ;)
12:15 PM Loetmichel: Military shielded ;)
12:23 PM jthornton: hmm wall thickness is within 0.02mm of design, I think that's plenty good enough...
12:24 PM * jthornton head to town...
12:24 PM jym: So, spend all this time chainsaw, pipe wrench, table saw, to just "repaint" the pump house. Get finished painting yesteday, waiting for it to dry, then freak rainstorm and this morning, OSB all nice and squishy. discouraging.
12:33 PM roycroft: we had a heck of a lot of rain here yesterday
12:37 PM jym: This wasn't even in the forecast, totally freak event. I was planning on putting everything back together today
12:38 PM jym: I gotta let it dry out now, can't even run a screw thru it till it does.
12:41 PM roycroft: our rain was kind of last-minute
12:41 PM roycroft: look at the bright side of it
12:41 PM roycroft: your walls are a wee bit thicker now
12:41 PM roycroft: dilbert would be pleased
01:02 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: have you noticed a standard CNC controller app out of China yet?
01:02 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: nope, why?
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: was wondering if they have one yet besides Mach3 copies
01:04 PM Loetmichel: recently i noticed a lot of machines come with little USB->LPT adapters with a GRBL controller inside
01:04 PM Loetmichel: so basically: they use freeware now ;)
01:04 PM Loetmichel: no mach needed any more, in principly a simple PC with a terminal program should suffice
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: what hardware is in the GRBL controller? *duino compatible mcu?
01:06 PM Loetmichel: i have no idea, its a injection molded plug
01:06 PM Loetmichel: i thouht it was a USB->LPT converter fürst
01:06 PM Loetmichel: first
01:07 PM Loetmichel: the whole electronics is in the DB25 cover
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/cnc-control-system.html
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: guess you could put LCNC on a Rpi with a touchscreen and make a few hundred $ at this price range
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1PaLvmaagSKJjy0Fbq6y.mVXag/206141262/HTB1PaLvmaagSKJjy0Fbq6y.mVXag.jpg_.webp
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: have link to the DB25 thingy you mention?
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.coreforge.com/blog/2014/08/grbl-tb6560-interface/
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://hackaday.com/2014/09/16/usb-to-db25-adapter-uses-grbl-for-parallel-port-cnc-communication/
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.tindie.com/products/ron/arduino-grbl-to-db25-cnc-shield-kit/
01:20 PM gregcnc: Capthindsight any idea where to rent a drop deck trailer locally?
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.greatwesternleasing.com/media/wysiwyg/images/drop-deck-new.jpg
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: is this the type? ^^
01:22 PM gregcnc: a bit smaller EZ Ramp or No Ramp
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: the only ones I know of rent with a driver and tractor
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: Snelten and Jafrate have them
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: http://whiteystowinginc.com/photos.html they have one
01:27 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: nope, didnt find one on a quick search
01:27 PM Loetmichel: but it looks exactly like those 2m USB-> lpt cables with injection molded plugs on both ends
01:27 PM Loetmichel: and the DB25 plug hides the mcu
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: do they come with the Chinese 3-axis routers and similar?
01:28 PM Loetmichel: yes
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: I'lllook
03:21 PM JT-Shop: Loetmichel: how did you mount the C270 camera?
03:21 PM JT-Shop: for $20 that has a good image
03:58 PM Deejay: gn8
03:59 PM jdh: I have a cam that was 2 for $15 about 10 years ago. looks good enough for octoprint
04:14 PM Tom_L: any cheap camera should be able to show you if it's on fire or not
04:22 PM Elmo40: ;-)
04:49 PM SpeedEvil: Is there a readily available encoder for threaded rod? Just realised it would be handy in an app I'm thinking of for measuring load in a fastner which happens to be made of it.
04:53 PM jym: SpeedEvil: with a coupler maybe?
04:54 PM SpeedEvil: I was wondering about something that counted crests of the thread.
04:55 PM jym: SpeedEvil: IDK, wouldn't any encoder do for that?
04:55 PM SpeedEvil: I do not mean a rotary encoder.
04:55 PM jym: Oh, ignore me =)
04:56 PM jym: linear encoder?
04:57 PM jym: SpeedEvil: like this? https://www.amazon.com/Encoder-Linear-Sensor-Roland-SJ-540/dp/B074V2FJHD
04:58 PM jym: or https://www.usdigital.com/products/encoders/incremental/linear/LIN
04:59 PM SpeedEvil: Sort of, yes, but I mean something that would just wrap the existing thread like a nut, and enabled the shaft to move through it as it was loaded.
05:39 PM _unreal_: liner encoder?
05:41 PM _unreal_: SpeedEvil, I'm not sure I understand wwhat your goal is?
05:42 PM SpeedEvil: To measure the tensile load on a long threaded rod.
05:51 PM Rab: SpeedEvil, the term of art appears to be "donut load cell". E.g.: https://www.load-cells.org/donut-load-cells/
05:52 PM Tom_L: https://scaime.com/products
05:53 PM SpeedEvil: Sorry - I should have asked the question in a more coherent form.
05:53 PM Tom_L: you want a cheap version of something like those i think
05:54 PM SpeedEvil: I am imagining what is basically a position sensor that detects the motion of the thread as it expands and contracts, and passes through a sensor. Just like a spring-scale, but using magnetic (or capacitive perhaps) readout from the thread form.
05:54 PM SpeedEvil: yeah
05:54 PM Tom_L: printer strip encoder attached to the rod somehow
05:55 PM Tom_L: or the capacitive or glass scales used on an axis
05:56 PM * SpeedEvil wonders about optical.
05:56 PM SpeedEvil: (tiny camera + ESP32, for example.
05:57 PM Rab: SpeedEvil, that seems like an unusual and indirect method of measuring load.
05:57 PM SpeedEvil: Indeed - it's part of a structure (or will be) anyway.
05:57 PM SpeedEvil: Otherwise it wouldn't be a very sensible idea.
05:59 PM Rab: Your rod material would need to be well-characterized for its elastic modulus. And any permanent deformation would ruin your calibration.
06:00 PM SpeedEvil: The point is not to make accurate measurements, but to monitor possible structural issues.
06:02 PM Rab: Gear matched to the thread, fixed on a rotary encoder?
06:06 PM SpeedEvil: I think I'm gonna go with tiny camera and dot and printed scale.
06:12 PM jthornton: XXCoder, you around?
06:34 PM _unreal_: nope I'm not
06:34 PM _unreal_: oh XXCoder ;)
06:34 PM jthornton: lol
06:35 PM _unreal_: I'm milling the arms for my daughters mini cnc now
06:35 PM jthornton: cool
06:35 PM _unreal_: when I get a few more parts cut I can start having her put some of it together
06:36 PM jthornton: I'm fixing to call it a night, I need to adjust the ender 3 Y axis but I'm too tired
06:36 PM _unreal_: I've made a few changes now I have some of the parts with BUTTER fly self aligning parts
06:36 PM _unreal_: considering what I did for work today I'm supprised I'm not crashing already
06:36 PM _unreal_: having a "calm down" beer right now
06:37 PM _unreal_: right now I'm drilling the mount holes
06:38 PM jthornton: I cut down 2 trees, made 2 trips to town, tilled the garden, bladed the garden and planted a food plot for deer... I'm past my beer and drinking my wine now
06:41 PM _unreal_: and I should likely cut down the milling rate from 600mm to 150 using a 5/8" ball end router bit
06:45 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: how is everything held? Won't the camera mount change position over temp?
06:46 PM SpeedEvil: Not appreciably compared to the ~>>1% elongation at the nominal load.
06:48 PM CaptHindsight: how much elongation in um?
06:49 PM CaptHindsight: thin rod? few mm
06:50 PM _unreal_: elongation? of?
06:50 PM _unreal_: for ?
06:50 PM _unreal_: what?
06:51 PM * _unreal_ runs for more beer
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: https://ibin.co/2u5XXEUdLjMj.jpg 50um gap , sobel filter on right
06:52 PM CaptHindsight: https://ibin.co/2u5W3RNmUMtN.jpg same gap, Sobel below
06:53 PM CaptHindsight: cheap USB microscope
07:00 PM _unreal_: amazing how cheap tech has gotten rather interesting over the past 20 years
07:04 PM _unreal_: ok this thing is on auto pilot now
07:05 PM _unreal_: Out side of something having an unexpected failure I shold not even have to bother with the thing becaseu its working on cutting out the parts
07:05 PM _unreal_: now
07:23 PM _unreal_: well time to make din I guess Yall are too quite for me
07:23 PM _unreal_: making homemade pizza
07:24 PM _unreal_: justanotheruser, your such a user
07:26 PM justanotheruser: thanks
09:36 PM jesseg: haha do they make step PCB drills? You know, so I can drill different sizes of holes with the same bit by simply plunging different depths, so I don't have to change my bit for every size of hole :P
09:36 PM Rab: Use a micro carbide end mill, and route out any hole size you need!
09:37 PM jesseg: Rab, hmm. The smallest hole I need is about 0.7mm because that's what my copper rivet vias need
09:37 PM jesseg: I wonder how a 0.7mm endmill would work.
09:38 PM jesseg: oh wait, the PCB is 1.6mm think. I guess that's almost within 2:1 aspect for an endmill.
09:39 PM Rab: jesseg, at that scale, it would depend on the rigidity and runout of your machine.
09:40 PM jesseg: I think runout should be OK. I have great success drilling holes with a 0.7mm carbide drill
09:41 PM jesseg: I could literally route between my traces with the same endmill.
09:41 PM jesseg: although I suspect that'd wear them out pretty fast :P
09:41 PM CaptHindsight: how mnay boards do yah needs?
09:42 PM jesseg: I just make usually one or two for a project a few times a year :P
09:42 PM Rab: This seller is legit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/152725264199
09:44 PM jesseg: How about that.
09:45 PM jesseg: A bit more expensive than used&sharpened carbide PCB drills
09:45 PM jesseg: but still very interesting.
09:46 PM jesseg: I just can't imagine cutting all the way through a PCB with that lol
09:46 PM Rab: I think you would want a little smaller diameter, and a spiral toolpath. But I'm being slightly facetious; I have an LPKF Protomat which is designed for exactly that type of work, but I probably wouldn't dare to use end mills for the drilling at that scale.
09:47 PM Rab: It might be interesting to try it for the lulz.
09:47 PM jesseg: yeah
09:48 PM Rab: That is pretty dirt cheap for a new name-brand non-china micro carbide end mill.
09:49 PM Rab: Check out the seller's store if you do a lot of PCB drilling/engraving, some good deals to be had.
09:49 PM jesseg: One time I got impatient waiting for my PCB drills to arrive from eBay so I tried making sub-mm carbide drill by grinding down the end of a ~1/8" carbide rod then grinding basically a paddle bit end on it.
09:49 PM Rab: Did it work?
09:50 PM jesseg: It had eccentricity issues, but it was actually drilling fine (but not cleanly) but then a bug in my code shot X and Y off in some random direction at a high speed -- but the poor little bit side-cut about 1/8" long of a cut in 1.6mm thick PCB before it actually broke
09:52 PM Rab: Occasionally I've broken micro drills or end mills, and continued the cycle in a rage...sometimes it works!
09:56 PM jesseg: Do you think I could get away with plunge cuts?
09:57 PM jesseg: i.e. using it as a drill for the smallest of holes
09:57 PM Tom_L: are they center cutting?
09:57 PM jesseg: and in fact I'd have to start all my holes that way.. my plotter is only 2.5d - uses air pressure to lower the quill
09:58 PM jesseg: Tom_L, I'm sure not.
09:58 PM Rab: The eBay listing says yes.
09:58 PM Tom_L: big risk
09:58 PM jesseg: oh really? lol cool.
09:58 PM Tom_L: most bits any more are i think
09:59 PM jesseg: well at the price I sure can try. Have to see what sort of life I get abusing them like that, but it sure wouldn't cost much to try.
10:00 PM jesseg: It sure would be handy to be able to not only make all the holes with one bit but also slots and stuff
10:01 PM jesseg: oh I guess I need to find out what size my actual hole is for my rivets - then I'll get some carbide bits and see how they go