#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 08 2019

01:13 AM XXCoder: jeez finally back
01:17 AM XXCoder: total blackout for few hours
01:58 AM Deejay: moin
04:38 AM BitEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqtWmGmat_E /me thinks of after XXCoders comment.
04:38 AM BitEvil: Nation Terrified After Millions Lose Consciousness For 8 Whole Hours Last Night
04:38 AM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
04:43 AM XXCoder: ah lol
04:43 AM SpeedEvil: I got backup internet, which is nice.
04:43 AM SpeedEvil: (3g, 24G prepaid, 24 months expiry)
04:43 AM XXCoder: my phone works fine
04:44 AM SpeedEvil: And that series
05:06 AM jthornton: morning
05:07 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:07 AM XXCoder: had some power adventures today lol
05:07 AM XXCoder: blackout for 4 hours?
05:07 AM jthornton: fun
05:08 AM XXCoder: huge thundersorm which is pretty rare here
05:26 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: have a genset in the backyard?
05:26 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:27 AM XXCoder: genset?
05:27 AM Loetmichel: petro generator
05:27 AM Loetmichel: +l
05:27 AM Loetmichel: ot propane
05:27 AM Loetmichel: or whatever
05:27 AM XXCoder: ahh
05:27 AM XXCoder: nah dont have one
05:29 AM Loetmichel: i am thinking about buying a small one (again). and i live in germany where power outages are about as often as plague outbreaks ;)
05:29 AM XXCoder: how about big batteries?
05:30 AM XXCoder: if its so rare you probably could setup a battery system for say 5 hours
05:30 AM * Loetmichel has UPSes with extended battries for main PC and server rack at home
05:30 AM Loetmichel: works ok... if i dont forget to change the AGB bricks every few years.
05:31 AM Loetmichel: but the genny is more for things like "having power out in the field" with the added benefit of being a backup in case of power outage at home
05:31 AM Loetmichel: AGM bricks
05:32 AM Loetmichel: (otherwise you trip the main input GFCI and hear the UPSes going "beeep beeep beeeeeeeeuuiiiiiii*klick*"
05:32 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:33 AM XXCoder: lol
05:33 AM XXCoder: a61 ups does self test sometimes
05:35 AM Loetmichel: ... been there done that (GFCI accidentally tripping)
05:36 AM Loetmichel: not to self: have to order another set of UPS battieres, the ones in there are already 3 years old again)
05:36 AM XXCoder: too bad batteries cant be rebuilt
05:37 AM Loetmichel: lead acid can
05:37 AM Loetmichel: WET lead acid
05:37 AM Loetmichel: AGM/gel batteries: not so much
05:37 AM Loetmichel: but i blame APC in that case
05:37 AM Loetmichel: they are famous to "cook" the packs
05:48 AM Tom_L: morning
05:49 AM XXCoder: yo
05:52 AM jthornton: morning
08:47 AM jthornton: XXCoder, the biggest issue I see with the aliexpress printer with dual Z steppers is keeping them in sync
09:00 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: my Anet A8 is a dual z stepper printer
09:01 AM Loetmichel: its easy: have it home all axis, then when it prints the brim/skirt adjust the stepper on the side without an end switch to even layer thickness
09:02 AM Loetmichel: BEFORE it starts the first layer of the print
09:05 AM Loetmichel: its usually not more than 4 or 8 steps off
09:06 AM Loetmichel: so 1 or two "skips" on the "slave" stepper does the trick
09:23 AM JT-Shop: how do you pause the print
10:25 AM Loetmichel: giggle, just went to bring the 2018 income tax papers to the financial office... ALWAYS on tha last day... tomorrow after 0800 it woudcost penality ;) (aaand got a pair of nice done kebab on the way, 10 eur and two people will be full to the brim soon, and tasty to boot ;)
11:03 AM CaptHindsight: last day of my favorite local Oktoberfest is today
11:05 AM gloops: its only september?
11:06 AM CaptHindsight: they do them earlier here since Oct tends to be cooler and rainy
11:06 AM gloops: ahh
11:06 AM Tom_L: state fair started friday
11:07 AM CaptHindsight: Amamzonian heat and humidity in summer, frostbite falls cold and wind in winter
11:07 AM Tom_L: yeah they send the little kids out in october so they can all get sick
11:07 AM CaptHindsight: we usually get ~2 weeks of mild, cool, sun in fall and spring
11:08 AM CaptHindsight: schools started here 2 weeks ago, now everyone is sick
11:08 AM Tom_L: heh true
11:08 AM CaptHindsight: schools tell parents to send their kids to school when sick unless they need to see a doctor
11:09 AM gloops: was a vintage car show local today but i couldnt be bothered to go
11:10 AM CaptHindsight: so it's one big petri dish
11:10 AM jesseg: CaptHindsight, they are trying to evolve a sickness-resistant strain of kids
11:11 AM jesseg: :P
11:11 AM CaptHindsight: sickness-resistant method of school funding
11:12 AM jesseg: LOL
11:12 AM jesseg: I forgot about that but yeah they get money based on kids*days on a per day basis don't they?
11:13 AM CaptHindsight: yes, around here they take attendance 6x per day
11:13 AM jesseg: wow
11:13 AM CaptHindsight: so it's down to hours and some sliding scale
11:13 AM jesseg: faaaancy
11:14 AM CaptHindsight: why they use to be upset if you had to leave early for a doctors appt or something
11:14 AM jesseg: lol
11:14 AM CaptHindsight: ~6 hour school day, if you were out more than 2 hours they only count you as 1/2 day
11:15 AM CaptHindsight: show up after 3+ late and you were not even there that day on the funding count
11:15 AM jesseg: wow
11:15 AM CaptHindsight: I actually had one administrator walk me through it years ago
11:16 AM jesseg: Little cash cows, kids are.
11:16 AM CaptHindsight: blood filled meat sacks from their perspective
11:17 AM jesseg: I mean I'm all for providing great education to children. But I don't think that's the driving force here, and I wonder if sometimes things go weird :P
11:17 AM CaptHindsight: broken system
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: varies a bit from district to district
11:18 AM jesseg: yeah, and there are always a certain percent of teachers who really do love teaching and are pouring their lives into their students
11:18 AM jesseg: but then there's the administration.
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: I met so many that when in that way and worked 2 jobs...
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: I knew them from their seconds jobs are restaurants and bars
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: they would leave teaching after a few years, fed up with the administration
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: also met the die hard types that had 200+ vacation days and were saving them for retirement
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: so they could take off from teaching their last year and still collect a 50% pension till death based on their last years salary
11:21 AM jesseg: lol
11:22 AM CaptHindsight: they would brag to me about it
11:24 AM roycroft: i think you're painting the whole public education system in a very negative, and wrong light
11:24 AM roycroft: i've known educators all my life
11:25 AM roycroft: both my parents were educators - my father a superintendant of schools
11:25 AM roycroft: so there's the disclosure
11:25 AM roycroft: i'm sure i'm somewhat biased
11:26 AM roycroft: however, the main problem is that we severely underfund our schools, yet still mandate that they provide a good education to our children
11:26 AM roycroft: it's not that administrations are lousy
11:26 AM roycroft: or teachers are lazy or greedy
11:26 AM Tom_L: seemed fairly accurate at least for the districts around here
11:26 AM roycroft: teachers are way way way underpaid
11:26 AM Tom_L: administrators are way way overpaid
11:26 AM roycroft: not at all
11:27 AM roycroft: they're paid less than they would be paid for a similar position in the private sector
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.johntaylorgatto.com/
11:27 AM roycroft: on top of teachers being underpaid, their programs are underfunded
11:27 AM roycroft: so they take the money that they don't have and go to wal*mart to buy classroom supplies such as chalk and paper that the schools don't provide them
11:28 AM roycroft: most teachers are very hard-working, dedicated people
11:28 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: look at who and how schooling in the USA was created and evolved
11:28 AM roycroft: as far as the pensions, that is one of my big nits with the public sector in general
11:28 AM roycroft: and something that most people choose not to try to undersand
11:28 AM roycroft: understand
11:28 AM roycroft: yes, public employees get better pensions than their counterparts in the private sector
11:29 AM roycroft: that's because they get paid less during their working years
11:29 AM roycroft: it's a trick that politicians have been getting away with for decades
11:29 AM roycroft: they pay public sector workers less so that they can make their budget numbers look good
11:30 AM roycroft: and the give them generous retirement benefits, knowing that they won't be responsible for that - they push the cost of retirement benefits on their successors
11:31 AM roycroft: while i'm pretty pissed off at what the congress did to the postal service - forcing it to pre-fund all retirement benefits up front (completely unnecessary and unlike any other company/government agency in the country, perhaps the world)
11:31 AM roycroft: i am happy that postal service pensions are funded
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto#Main_thesis
11:31 AM roycroft: but that was done as an extreme measure by republicans who were trying to privatize the one bit of commerce that is mandated in our constitution as a government service
11:32 AM roycroft: they make impossible demands on the postal service and then point their fingers at it when it struggles to meet the demands
11:32 AM roycroft: it's typical republican starve the teat tactics taken to an absurd extreme
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: "heaven there is no beer"
11:34 AM roycroft: ok, i was not aware that we were discussing teaching methods here
11:34 AM roycroft: i came in seeing public education being maligned
11:35 AM roycroft: there are a *lot* of things with which i disagree regarding both public and private education methods
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: there is hope for you yet
11:35 AM roycroft: and i must say, it drives me absolutely crazy seeing how post-millennials are being coddled in schools
11:36 AM Rab: My wife was a public school teacher, and is quite jaded. I think there's room to say that educators are idealistic and hard-working, but the system is largely broken (partly by design, partly through evolution under pressure).
11:36 AM roycroft: this whole "safe space" bullshit makes me want to scream
11:37 AM roycroft: while i don't think there should be nazi marches on university campuses (public or private), it's insane to encourage students to run away and hide any time someone says something with which they disagree
11:37 AM roycroft: that's called "challenging
11:37 AM roycroft: " them
11:38 AM roycroft: and is an integral and necessary part of an education
11:38 AM CaptHindsight: in the USA breasts are a danger to society, not sure why they aren't so dangerous in other countries
11:39 AM roycroft: and rab, there certainly are some structural failings of oure education system
11:39 AM roycroft: and i have known some teachers who became jaded by the system
11:39 AM roycroft: i hope i did not give the impression that i think everything is hunky-dory other than the funding problem
11:39 AM roycroft: in truth, it's pretty messed up these days
11:40 AM roycroft: a lot more so than when i went to school
11:40 AM CaptHindsight: I will closely examine this issues today and report back
11:40 AM roycroft: but homeschooling everyone is not the answer
11:40 AM roycroft: parochial schools are not the answer
11:40 AM roycroft: not that they should be banned
11:40 AM roycroft: they should not receive public funds, for sure
11:41 AM roycroft: but if you want to send your kid to a private school and you can afford to do so, by all means do so
11:41 AM Rab: I think funding being contingent on standardized testing is a stake through the heart of the system.
11:41 AM roycroft: the answer is not to provide public funds for private schools
11:41 AM Tom_L: maybe they should be exempt from funding public education if their choice is one of the other?
11:41 AM roycroft: it is to fix the public school system
11:42 AM roycroft: no, because that would be the end of public education
11:42 AM Tom_L: no, they must generate funds in addition to the public option no matter the choice
11:42 AM Tom_L: or public education would improve
11:42 AM roycroft: the wealthy who have all the power would withdraw from the public school system
11:42 AM Rab: Because children are very poorly served by a regimented fixation on teaching to an arbitrary standardized test.
11:42 AM roycroft: and leave it unfunded for the poor who cannot afford to send their children to private school
11:43 AM roycroft: educating all our children benefits all of society
11:43 AM roycroft: we need to eliminate the voucher system for private education
11:44 AM gloops: one of those tricky ones, teachers here work ok until they reach the top pay scale, then they take the foot right off the gas
11:44 AM Tom_L: it's also detrimental to those that could excel but are held up by the slowest learners
11:44 AM Rab: roycroft, that's happening here. The city is booming with an influx of wealthy transplants, who are displacing poorer residents. The new folks are definitely not putting their kids into the public schools, which are withering and dying as a result.
11:44 AM jesseg: I was home schooled. My dad worked twice as much as your dad because my dad was working to pay for my home schooling as well as paying for your schooling.
11:44 AM roycroft: rab: it's not a simple problem
11:45 AM jesseg: Is it fair that my dad had to pay for your schooling and again for my schooling when you dad was only working to pay for yours and not mine?
11:45 AM jesseg: :D
11:45 AM roycroft: my opinion is that, sadly, a large percentage of wealthy people are greedy and uncaring about them to whom they feel superior
11:45 AM Tom_L: jesseg exactly
11:45 AM roycroft: jesseg: nobody forces anybody to send their children to private schools
11:45 AM CaptHindsight: sounds like a problem for little people :)
11:45 AM roycroft: this is like saying that we build public roads for everyone to use
11:46 AM roycroft: but if you want to build a private road that has less traffic so you can go faster, you're free to do so as long as you pay for it
11:46 AM jesseg: roycroft, but everybody is forced to play for a failing education system. Even the ones that one something better for their children, who end up then having to pay for the failing one AND the better one.
11:46 AM roycroft: jesseg: the answer is to fix the failing system
11:46 AM jesseg: roycroft, HA! But if you don't USE the public road, you don't PAY for it.
11:46 AM roycroft: not to force it to fail even moreso
11:47 AM Tom_L: throwing more money at it every year isn't the answer either
11:47 AM Tom_L: which is what seems to happen around here
11:47 AM jesseg: roycroft, fixing it is a dandy idea. But if competition is not allowed there will be no motivation to fix it and it will never get fixed.
11:47 AM Rab: jesseg, I was homeschooled as well. And now over half my property taxes go toward the local school district. I guess there is some utility in keeping other people's kids off the street...or at least I sure hope there is.
11:47 AM roycroft: i did not say throwing more money at it is the fix
11:47 AM CaptHindsight: jesseg: around here we have privatized public roads with tolls
11:47 AM roycroft: i never suggested that even a tiny bit
11:48 AM jesseg: Rab, it only keeps the ones off the street who don't hurt anything. The ones who we want to keep off the streets don't stay off the streets anyway :P
11:48 AM roycroft: i did say that public schools are underfunded
11:48 AM roycroft: and i am correct
11:48 AM roycroft: but that does not imply that throwing more money at them will fix the problems
11:48 AM roycroft: it's a necessary part of the fix
11:48 AM roycroft: but by no means a fix in and of itself
11:48 AM Rab: jesseg, good point.
11:48 AM CaptHindsight: education over schooling!
11:48 AM jesseg: roycroft, I pay for public roads when I buy fuel for vehicles that go on public roads. If I'm driving on private roads, I can buy fuel without road tax, and I don't have to pay for public roads.
11:48 AM Tom_L: maybe the funds just aren't going to the right places
11:49 AM roycroft: fuel taxes do not even begin to pay for road maintenance
11:49 AM roycroft: because our congress refuse to raise the fuel tax
11:49 AM roycroft: it hasn't been raised since 1993, i believe
11:50 AM CaptHindsight: roads are for little people, same for bridges and railroads
11:50 AM Rab: Fuel tax does not go toward city road maintenance, at least around here. There is a tiny bit that goes into the general fund, but it mostly goes into highways.
11:50 AM CaptHindsight: why we don't rebuild our infrastructure here
11:50 AM roycroft: federal fuel tax goes to maintain the internet highway system
11:51 AM roycroft: local/county/state road maintenance is mostly paid for with local/state taxes
11:52 AM Rab: City roads come out of property taxes, for us.
11:52 AM roycroft: we don't rebuild our infrastructure becasue the republican'teabag party want it all to fail so they can use it as an ecuse to privatise everything
11:53 AM CaptHindsight: if we had a well educated society here, that can think critically and independently people like the Great Pumpkin wouldn't poll at 40%
11:53 AM roycroft: "i like the undereducated"
11:53 AM CaptHindsight: it would be 0.4%
11:53 AM jesseg: well if a lot of people build their own alternative roads and didn't use public roads and still had to pay for them, then that's an injustice. But most people that pay for roads use them.
11:53 AM roycroft: that's our commander-of-sharpies
11:54 AM roycroft: everyone uses the public roads
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: the well educated are also bad for business
11:54 AM roycroft: if not directly, then indirectly
11:54 AM roycroft: if you never leave your house
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: you want good well trained consumers
11:54 AM roycroft: someone used public roads to bring you stuff
11:54 AM jesseg: exactly
11:55 AM Rab: As a bicyclist, I'm occasionally subjected to a rant about how cyclists don't pay fuel taxes to maintain the roads; and so I must set the ranter straight.
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: is your bike over 3000lbs?
11:56 AM Rab: Few cyclists using the highway system (although there was one rather over-the-top Critical Mass).
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: just checking :)
11:57 AM roycroft: building new infrastructure is much more expensive than maintaining existing infrastructure (for the most part)
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a35e9p/cyclist-bike-deaths-are-exploding-because-us-cities-are-car-friendly-death-traps
11:57 AM Rab: CaptHindsight, yeah, simple physics proves my bike makes a very tiny comparitive impact.
11:57 AM roycroft: everyone who cycles instead of driving a motor vehicle helps fend off the need for new, expensive infrastructure
11:57 AM jesseg: but in the case of public education, there are entire alternative routes, and making someone pay double just because they want a decent education for their kids -- seems we have a Party mentality going on. In fact I think that not only should parents get to choose which school the state pays for their kids to go to, I think all tax payers should have a choice of where their taxes go - whether their tax contribution to education goes to state or othe
11:57 AM jesseg: r schools LOL
11:57 AM roycroft: and that's just the beginning of the argument
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: jesseg: yeah that is supposed to be by who we vote for locally (hahaha)
11:58 AM jesseg: hahaha
11:58 AM * roycroft notes that he is not a democrat, and rejects any "party mentality" label being put on him
11:59 AM jesseg: oh goodness I'm not talking about democrat or republican party
11:59 AM roycroft: while it's true that i dislike republicans/teabaggers by orders of magnitude more than democrats (as a whole), i'm not aligned with either
11:59 AM roycroft: in fact, not to risk changing the subject, but my biggest concern about society today is how tribal it's become
12:00 PM roycroft: to the point that members of the opposing tribes will not even talk to each other
12:00 PM roycroft: all they do is demonize the other side
12:00 PM roycroft: and this tribalism is not about policy
12:00 PM Tom_L: leads to wars
12:00 PM roycroft: because policy does not matter any more
12:00 PM roycroft: it's pure tribalism
12:01 PM jesseg: I'm talking about the mentality that a failing education system gets a monopoly on the funding. When the point is raised that it's failing, and the obvious answer is "Let people choose what works best", the Party says "No, it needs to be fixed, but it cannot be replaced."
12:01 PM roycroft: the people with the red paint on their faces hate everything the people with the blue paint on their faces do
12:01 PM roycroft: and if the blue faces start doing what the red faces believe in, the red faces will do the opposite from what they used to believe
12:01 PM roycroft: just to be sure that they are opposing the blue faces
12:01 PM roycroft: and vice versa
12:01 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: the streets around here are so not bike friendly that I don't even ride a motorcycle
12:02 PM CaptHindsight: it's like china around here, bigger wins
12:02 PM roycroft: my argument, jesseg, is that if the education system were left to the private sector, only the wealthy would be able to afford to educate their children
12:02 PM roycroft: and society would lose
12:02 PM roycroft: we *must* maintain a public education system in order for our country to continue to flourish
12:03 PM roycroft: and if we allow the wealthy to opt out of paying for it, then only the poor would be funding it, and it would get even worse
12:03 PM roycroft: no, the answer is not to allow the wealthy to opt out
12:03 PM roycroft: it's to fix the system
12:03 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: why does compulsive obsessive not apply to money hoarders?
12:03 PM roycroft: i think we're all in agreement that our public education system has a lot of problems, and is, indeed, failing, in many places
12:04 PM roycroft: but to abandon it serves no good for anyone
12:04 PM Rab: roycroft, I think the tribes are vocal minorities, and that a majority of people are just generally disenfranchised. I think that may manifest through a centrist backlash against call-out culture in 2020...which might seal 4 more years of Trump.
12:04 PM roycroft: it doesn't even help the wealthy who no longer have to fund it
12:04 PM CaptHindsight: mental illness, personality disorder, or?
12:04 PM roycroft: because they don't even notice the extra money they have
12:05 PM roycroft: there is a very high chance that we'll see another four years of trump
12:05 PM jesseg: roycroft, The reason only the wealthy would be able to educate their children is because the working class are paying for it and not allowed to put that money toward the education of their own children.
12:05 PM roycroft: and if we do, things will get worse by an order of magnitude
12:05 PM roycroft: yes, jesseg
12:05 PM jesseg: And we must maintain a public education system only if it's working. If it's not working, it's not benefiting us. And if it's taking money from real education, then it's hurting us, and it must not be maintained.
12:05 PM roycroft: that is, the working class would be paying for the education of the wealthy children
12:06 PM roycroft: because the great lesson that henry ford (a generally reprehensible person otherwise) taught us has been lost
12:06 PM roycroft: due in large part to globalization
12:06 PM jesseg: So why not let the working class choose where their money goes - if they want it to go to a public school system because that's working the best, fine. If they want it to go to a private school because that's working best, then fine.
12:06 PM roycroft: but let's not go there right now :)
12:07 PM roycroft: so you're advocating for actually mandating that the working class be paid a real living wage?
12:07 PM CaptHindsight: jesseg: the working class can choose to do what they are told
12:07 PM Rab: roycroft, hey man, Hillary would not in a million years have backed out of TPP.
12:07 PM roycroft: clinton was a horrible candidate
12:08 PM roycroft: but that aside, i disgree with her on policy in many areas
12:08 PM CaptHindsight: TPP was far from perfect and whathe just said ^^
12:08 PM roycroft: i did not vote for her
12:08 PM roycroft: i'm not an anti-globalist
12:08 PM roycroft: nor a globalist
12:08 PM roycroft: we need to trade with other countries
12:08 PM roycroft: it's stupid to be isolationist
12:09 PM roycroft: but our trade policies are generally moronic
12:09 PM roycroft: the trump tariffs 10000x moreso than previous policies
12:09 PM CaptHindsight: we started this mess in the 90's with China, well really back to the 70's after Mao
12:10 PM CaptHindsight: it worked as planned for the wealthy
12:10 PM CaptHindsight: the working class (public schooled) just started noticing recently
12:11 PM roycroft: the working class have known since the '70s that their wages have been going down
12:11 PM roycroft: they just haven't known exactly why, and still don't
12:11 PM roycroft: today it's because of mexicans
12:11 PM roycroft: it's been because of mexicans for a long time, actually
12:12 PM roycroft: except that has nothing to do with it in reality
12:12 PM CaptHindsight: we should have bombed Mexico vs Iraq?
12:12 PM roycroft: but "they took our jerbs" is easy to sell
12:12 PM roycroft: no
12:12 PM CaptHindsight: oh yeah oil
12:12 PM roycroft: if we had bombed mexico then we couldn't blame the mexicans any more
12:12 PM roycroft: we need to them to blame
12:12 PM roycroft: "we" meaning trump and his ilk
12:12 PM CaptHindsight: we probably still could have
12:13 PM CaptHindsight: those mexicans living in craters
12:13 PM CaptHindsight: all their fault
12:13 PM roycroft: what the wealthy do in this country is take the poorly educated
12:13 PM roycroft: bend them over
12:13 PM Rab: Talk about a refugee crisis...
12:13 PM roycroft: have their way with them
12:13 PM roycroft: and then blame it on teh gays or on immigrants
12:13 PM Rab: And who would build Tahoes and F-150s?
12:14 PM roycroft: and the poorly educated eat it up
12:14 PM CaptHindsight: well we did invade Mexico years ago
12:14 PM roycroft: in 1846?
12:14 PM CaptHindsight: they took off and hid in the hills
12:14 PM roycroft: and look what that did for us
12:14 PM roycroft: it gave us KALIFORNIA
12:14 PM CaptHindsight: our 51st state
12:15 PM roycroft: the mexicans got the last laugh on that
12:15 PM Rab: And Texas!
12:15 PM roycroft: well, we had texas before the war
12:15 PM roycroft: that was the excuse for the war
12:15 PM roycroft: president polk invited texas to join the union
12:15 PM roycroft: texas agreed
12:16 PM roycroft: but there was border dispute
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: we needed a cheap trade route to Guatemala
12:16 PM Rab: Sorry, I failed homeschool history. Or maybe it failed me.
12:16 PM roycroft: and when the mexicans crossed what we considered the border (the rio grande), we saw it as an invasion of our country
12:16 PM roycroft: and we went to war
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: South American had too many mountains
12:17 PM roycroft: and it really was an excuse
12:17 PM CaptHindsight: why we invented the Panama Canal
12:17 PM roycroft: polk had four goals for his presidency
12:18 PM roycroft: expanding our nation's border to the pacific coast by annexing the mexican territory that includes modern day california, arizona, new mexico, and north to the 42nd parallel, and settling the oregon territory dispute with the uk being two of them
12:18 PM CaptHindsight: if someone had invented the Panama Canal earlier Columbus could have found his path to the Indies
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: it would have shaved months off a many months journey to buy tea
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: and indigo
12:20 PM roycroft: polk also negotiated a treaty with new granada, which was a sovereign nation at the time that encompassed primarily modern-day colombia and panama
12:21 PM roycroft: part of that treaty allowed the us to build a railroad across panama, thus permitting us to move goods from the east coast to the west coast without having to sail all the way around south america
12:22 PM roycroft: as far as the canal itself, that was a french project
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: I have another theory as to why so many central and south American countries end in A
12:22 PM roycroft: but the french failed, and the us stepped in and took it over
12:22 PM roycroft: it was not our initiative though
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: they didn't fail
12:23 PM CaptHindsight: they just knew that we would finish it
12:23 PM roycroft: they gave up to do engineering problems and a very high worker mortality rate
12:23 PM CaptHindsight: same for WWII and Vietnam
12:23 PM roycroft: they worked at it for over 20 years
12:23 PM roycroft: the us completed it in a decade
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: Chinese could do it in weeks
12:24 PM roycroft: not really
12:24 PM roycroft: many projects, sure
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: well it would be only asphalt vs concrete
12:24 PM roycroft: but not many people comprehend how difficult the panama canal was to build
12:25 PM roycroft: i should get to work
12:25 PM CaptHindsight: up until then panamas chief exports were dysentery and mosquitoes
12:25 PM roycroft: my chore this morning is not going to be fun at all
12:26 PM roycroft: i have to do two tiny spot welds to some aluminium c-channel
12:26 PM roycroft: the welds will take me about 10 seconds with my tig welder
12:26 PM roycroft: but it will take me 20 minutes to pull the power cable out and set up the welder
12:26 PM roycroft: and a half hour to put it all away when i'm done
12:27 PM roycroft: this is the bane of my shop setup in general
12:27 PM roycroft: i can do a lot of stuff
12:27 PM roycroft: but space is at such a premium that setup/teardown of a workstation sometimes takes a long time
12:28 PM * roycroft gently tries to steer the conversation back to something at least peripherally machining/cnc-related
12:29 PM jesseg: well I'll chip in on that effort, althought it might start another religious war. But I've been reading about Microchip's new(?) PIC18F27K42 series of parts. They are pretty neat, and have 4 configurable logic blocks in them.
12:29 PM CaptHindsight: if Mexico had invented CNC would they still have the problems they have today?
12:30 PM CaptHindsight: or Panama
12:30 PM roycroft: as long as the us needs a bogeyman, "they took our jerbs" will cause problems for mexico
12:31 PM roycroft: no matter what they invent
12:31 PM roycroft: i mean
12:31 PM roycroft: they invented tequila, and our poorly-educated still hate them!
12:31 PM roycroft: what's up with that?
12:32 PM CaptHindsight: I like the tequila angle
12:32 PM CaptHindsight: they don't want your jobs or women
12:34 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.statista.com/topics/2060/tequila/
12:35 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.statista.com/statistics/311749/mexico-s-export-quantity-of-tequila-by-country/
12:35 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.statista.com/statistics/486797/tequila-consumption-united-states-by-state/
12:39 PM jesseg: Anyway, I'm envisioning these logic blocks as being very handy for implementing some quadrature decoder hardware or other things in relation to CNC controls
12:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.fpga4fun.com/QuadratureDecoder.html
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.digikey.com/eewiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=62259228
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.edn.com/design/integrated-circuit-design/4363949/Decode-a-quadrature-encoder-in-software
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: jesseg: software vs hardware?
12:46 PM jesseg: yeah, I'm hoping to be able to do some of the decoding in hardware
12:47 PM jesseg: I've done it before in software but it creates a lot of interrupts and thus limits the maximum speed the encoder can be tracked at
12:48 PM jesseg: in fact a decade and a half ago I made a PID motor controller in pure 8 bit assembly for the PIC18F1320
12:48 PM CaptHindsight: yes, depends on how fast you need to decode
12:48 PM jesseg: and it works great, but I always thought it'd be neat to have a little more hardware doing some of that.
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: I have a bunch of older analog glass scales I need decoders for
12:49 PM jesseg: wow cool, quadrature analog?
12:50 PM jesseg: or absolute differential analog?
12:51 PM mr_boo: is it a good idea to let four leadscrews be the support for the first axis?
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: sine wave
12:52 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, cool! What is the base resolution? (i.e. how many sines per inch?)
12:52 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/encodertest3.jpg
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/oscilloscope-gurus-how-check-dro-scales-spec-sheets-attached-85553/
12:56 PM CaptHindsight: Sin/Cos encoder --> TTL
12:56 PM jesseg: I was working on a surveyor's theodolite the other day that had sine wave encoders on it
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: I have about 50 scales, 200mm - 1000mm
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: mostly sin/cos
12:57 PM jesseg: They basically had a CPU and a high speed multi channel ADC chip that'd read the voltages of all 4 sine waves (two axes each with sin and cos)
12:57 PM mr_boo: is this type of threaded rod suitable for a leadscrew? https://www.clasohlson.com/se/G%c3%a4ngad%20st%c3%a5ng/Pr110992003
12:59 PM DaViruz: for very low precision and speed applications
12:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://de-shop.ichaus.com/encoder-circuits/interpolation-sine-to-digital/
12:59 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, cool! would you be interested in perhaps trading a few scales for encoder boards? I like building little PCBs and writing PIC code, and I'm on the hunt for a few scales for my mill and lathe.
01:01 PM CaptHindsight: jesseg: lets see what we both need
01:01 PM jesseg: CaptHindsight, sure thing!
01:02 PM DaViruz: mr_boo: the thread pitch precision is generally pretty poor, you will get quite a bit of backlash, and they aren't very straight limiting at least speed. they also tend to wear fast due to rough surfaces
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: mr_boo: where are you located geographically?
01:03 PM jesseg: well it's Church time for me. Gotta go. Cya!
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: +- 100km precision
01:03 PM mr_boo: CaptHindsight sweden
01:04 PM DaViruz: mr_boo: for reasonably prized trapezoidal screws in sweden, have a look at https://www.wiberger.se/templates/pinnar-kilar-skruvar-muttrar.htm
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: mr_boo: what is the lead screw for?
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: what is the max load and max speed of travel?
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: the nut is just as important
01:06 PM jthornton: I either need to get a new PC for the shop that runs 64bit or move my printer down here lol
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: new software and old computer eh
01:07 PM mr_boo: i plan to build a cnc
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: we downloaded some 3d printer software that need some bleeding edge C libs
01:08 PM JT-Shop: well this pc is running linux 32bit her in the shop
01:08 PM JT-Shop: I need a new motherboard anyway for this one it keeps rebooting
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: the quick fix was using Arch or gentoo
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: mr_boo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgs1eCOf6ag
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: high today 63F, Tuesday near 90F
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: crazy weather again
01:20 PM jdh: hot & humid today. Tuesday will be also hot & humid
01:28 PM skunkworks: it is cold..
01:29 PM skunkworks: here
01:53 PM skunkworks: hmmm - I don't think the realtime linux image of pi actually has a realtime kernel..
01:53 PM skunkworks: Linux realtimepi 4.19.57-v7l+ #1244 SMP Thu Jul 4 18:48:07 BST 2019 armv7l GNU/Linux
01:56 PM skunkworks: http://unofficialpi.org/Distros/RealtimePi/nightly/
01:57 PM skunkworks: had downloaded this 2019-08-07_2019-07-10-realtimepi-buster-lite-0.4.0.zip
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: as I mentioned before, power management and cpu clock governor is best killed in the bootloader and then those features should be left out of the kernel config
02:21 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: have you gotten the pi usable?
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: we have the 3 and 4 a try, not worth it for us, the hardware was just too flaky
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: needs more circuitry for protection, poor pcb layout
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: the kernel devs don't know what they are doing
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: I'm sure that between a mesa IO for them and another year of kernel and u-boot tries it will be usable for hobby machines
02:30 PM pcw_home: I've had a PI3 running for linuxCNC about a year now 24/7 with no major issues
02:31 PM pcw_home: (not enough memory to do very dense backplots and a bit slow but that's it)
03:01 PM gloops: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-hotter-hawaii-month-before-19899944
03:01 PM gloops: UK weather: Britain to be 'hotter than Hawaii' before 'coldest winter in years'
03:02 PM gloops: hot summers, cold winters, suits me
03:02 PM jdh: the south of the UK, where temperatures will hit 26C.
03:03 PM jdh: "hotter than Hawaii" sounds much hotter than a relatively chilly 26C
03:04 PM jthornton: hmm the printer is doing so well I think I need to print some actual part
03:12 PM gloops: jdh it didnt say Hawaii in daylight
03:28 PM Elmo40: BGPNeighbored, yes. i swear people get into this to test their frustration. plus we like to tinker. ;-) getting non-standard components to work together is how we create great things!
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: Elmo40: the software devs hold themselves to very low standards
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: on top of picking hobby hardware
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: Cura seems to be the most polished
03:42 PM Deejay: gn8
03:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.autodesk.com/products/netfabb/overview
03:44 PM Elmo40: cura is very nice. my main issues with it is the UI.
03:45 PM Elmo40: the placement of items needs to be a little more user friendly. let me add the rotation angle, not simply drag it with the mouse.
03:46 PM Elmo40: plus, selecting the RGB arrows is such a PITA.
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/global/en/products/manufacturing-planning/3d-printing.html
03:46 PM Elmo40: especially if the item is smaller than another item. then it unselects all too often.
03:47 PM Elmo40: metal printing is beautiful. it has been around for a while now.
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: I'd ask the devs "hey what's up with the RGB arrows, yaddah yaddah"
03:48 PM Elmo40: lasers sintering metal powder was the first method. wiping away a few thou between each layer
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: what is the thought process here, am I missing something?
03:48 PM Elmo40: talking to cura devs is impossible. they are ultimaker guys. they don't listen to anyone.
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: they often have some philosophy on why it works that way or I have gotten a yah know you're right, we should fix that
03:49 PM Elmo40: but, if they would take that non-planar printing technique and run with it, i'd forgo a few of the issues i have with them ;-)
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: ah ok
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: I'm working on DLP/LCD printing for LCNC
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: after that laser SLS/SLA using XY2-100 galvos
03:51 PM Elmo40: interesting
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: then more sintering using DLP vs laser for photopolymers, composites and metals
03:52 PM Elmo40: resin is an eventuality for me. it is such a mess, though
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: sand casting forms and molds using photopolymers and sand
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: I'm building on LCNC vs reinventing wheels
03:53 PM Elmo40: makes sense to me
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: also inkjet for polyjet
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: I've been using LCNC for inkjet but with two separate systems
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC for motion and the inkjet controller synchronized to the motion
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/LOriL1y.png
03:56 PM Elmo40: inkjet?
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: yes
03:56 PM Elmo40: for printing on items?
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: the red anodized part held the inkjet cartridge
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: yes
03:56 PM Elmo40: i see that
03:57 PM Elmo40: very interesting
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: can also deposit photopolymers for 3dp
03:57 PM Elmo40: commercial cartridge or something from HP or Canon or them?
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: that one was a Lexmark Thermal inkjet cartridge, but I can use just about any printhead that I have specs to
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://global.kyocera.com/prdct/printing-devices/inkjet-printheads/
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.xaar.com/en/products/xaar-printheads/
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.rpsa.ricoh.com/
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/industrial_inkjet_printheads/
04:05 PM Elmo40: interesting
04:05 PM Elmo40: how close to the part does it need to be?
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: depends on res and head, 1-5mm
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: drop velocity varies from 1-10m/s
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYTviWkTa8Y Xaar 128 controlled by Arduino
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: those heads ^^ are interlaced, so you have to make multiple passes
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7G_HwT3bkI
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=SmrdrCN_7No
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: much faster than inkjet sand mold printing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxdWaxOoXs8
04:29 PM XXCoder: nice
04:29 PM XXCoder: I want one lol
05:31 PM jym: skunkworks: how's the new toy coming along?
06:39 PM _unreal_: just got back from disney and universal studios
06:40 PM _unreal_: the new Starwars park is so so imo
06:55 PM jesseg: Howdy
07:20 PM _unreal_: That was almost a nightmare
07:20 PM _unreal_: just made a quick FIX gcode file and made it for the wrong side of the board
07:20 PM _unreal_: then my daughter came in as I was starting so how much attenthcne do you think I payed hehe
07:21 PM _unreal_: relized luckly but :S
07:21 PM XXCoder: doh
07:21 PM _unreal_: I dont think it did anything and the OOPS is totally hidden
07:21 PM _unreal_: have to make the NUT holes deeper
07:21 PM _unreal_: I some how got the ID of the sleeves rather then the OD? dont know how
07:21 PM _unreal_: so I fixed those only to forget to adjust the nut pocket depth
07:23 PM _unreal_: Now they are being milled a little deeper
07:23 PM _unreal_: 2 to go
07:49 PM _unreal_: yawn
10:25 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sAY9WkOFoU cooool
10:25 PM XXCoder: map area cut into wood then covered by resin
10:27 PM Elmo40: CaptHindsight, that sand mold laser machine is cool
10:27 PM XXCoder: elmo I thought so too :)
10:47 PM Elmo40: i dont understand the laser path, though
10:47 PM Elmo40: why a straight line on a 45?
10:47 PM XXCoder: dunno
10:51 PM Elmo40: i'll take one of these machines over a resin machine!
10:51 PM XXCoder: SLS is pretty cool
10:52 PM XXCoder: material I want is nylon, but thats so fiddly
10:52 PM XXCoder: very sensive to water, and could make CO as its running
10:54 PM Elmo40: hence enclosure and ventilation
10:54 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:54 PM XXCoder: and expense
11:27 PM _unreal_: I was not impressed by the new starwars park at disney