#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 29 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:53 AM Deejay: moin
02:50 AM Loetmichel: *sigh*... third time i mill those alu PSU enclosures... resized the width in CAD, forgot to click on one of the bending lines-> 1.5mm to wide still :-( MAAAN i should have had a coffee yesterday when designing that thing :-(
02:50 AM sensille: you have days *without* coffee?
02:51 AM Loetmichel: not anymore ,)
05:00 AM Loetmichel: hihi, finally the enclosures fit. all done, now to cover them in painters tape and then bring them to the powder coater... 1,5mm alu is really easy to use... :-) -> https://youtu.be/PRFFRJ3iQRM
05:08 AM Tom_L: morning
05:26 AM jthornton: morning
05:26 AM XXCoder: morning
05:27 AM XXCoder: it finally happened jt
05:27 AM XXCoder: they are replacing more lights to led type now
05:27 AM XXCoder: cell a61 im at is one of last areas with old light. BUT good news they are using better ones!
05:27 AM XXCoder: more placements too so less "one point" lighting
05:28 AM XXCoder: i think they plan to redo "old" led lighting too
05:31 AM jthornton: one of the places I do a lot of work at replaced all the 1000 watt high bays with motion activated leds that ended up being brighter and used a ton less electricity
05:31 AM jthornton: I didn't even notice the difference my buddy had to point them out to me
05:31 AM XXCoder: and waaaay less heat
05:31 AM XXCoder: if you cant tell difference your orginial or replacement is better.
05:32 AM XXCoder: old lights is very heavy yellow, and probably decade old (dont thinbk they ever replaced any)
05:32 AM XXCoder: few burnt out, they never replaced it
07:09 AM jthornton: yea I just created a local git server so I don't lose my programs any more
10:53 AM skunkworks: jthornton: did you follow any directions?
11:11 AM Loetmichel: Hmpf... little thunder and lightning here... and you see where your EMI meaures lack... PCs: no problems Router: no problems... but the little 8port COTS gbit switch the router is connected to decided to lock up... power off, power on: all well again :-(... should use a better 5V wallwart for it :-(
11:27 AM fragalot: 'sup
11:29 AM jesseg: Fiber optic is the cat's meow during a thunderstorm for sure.
11:29 AM jesseg: I've seen more than a few ethernet ports get fried from nearby lightening activity
11:29 AM fragalot: jesseg: very common issue with long cables
11:34 AM jesseg: yup
11:34 AM jesseg: that's why I like glass fiber :P
11:34 AM fragalot: :-)
11:41 AM Loetmichel: jesseg: i doubt it was that bad. the fritzbox survived just fine
11:41 AM Loetmichel: and thats the one that has connection to outside wiring
11:42 AM Loetmichel: not the switch that only sees the cat5e inside the appartment
11:42 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: you of all people should know that it doesn't need to go outside to get fried if there is a close enough strike
11:43 AM Loetmichel: i meant: the fritzbox would be gone LONG before any switch ports would be fried
11:43 AM Loetmichel: just because its WAN side wiring is a LOT longer so better "antenna" than any cat5e in the appartment
11:44 AM fragalot: sure, but it is possible that the surge rating on that is a LOT better than whatever consumer grade goods you've got hooked up to it
11:46 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: as i said: i think its either the ultracheap 5V wallawrt or the equally ultracheap 8 poot switch itself thats EMI sensitive and goes into lockup
11:46 AM Loetmichel: port
11:46 AM Loetmichel: should get some from my company
11:46 AM * fragalot wasn't here when you said that
11:46 AM Loetmichel: in EMP hardened ;)
11:46 AM fragalot: :D
11:46 AM Loetmichel: ah
11:46 AM Loetmichel: [18:05] <Loetmichel> Hmpf... little thunder and lightning here... and you see where your EMI meaures lack... PCs: no problems Router: no problems... but the little 8port COTS gbit switch the router is connected to decided to lock up... power off, power on: all well again :-(... should use a better 5V wallwart for it :-(
11:46 AM Loetmichel: sorry
11:47 AM Loetmichel: didnt see that you came afterwards
11:47 AM fragalot: :-)
11:48 AM fragalot: what I said still stands though, shite consumer grade cheapie routers typically aren't surge rated for anything more than 1m of cabling, if installed inside of a shielded enclosure with the cables not leaving the enclosure
11:48 AM Loetmichel: Fritzbox is by no means "cheap"
11:48 AM Loetmichel: IIRC i paid around 200 eur for that piece of crap
11:49 AM Loetmichel: because my old router wasnt compatible with the VOIP the provider canceled my ISDN contract for.
11:50 AM Loetmichel: and while its know for having cheap PSUs as well its also known to have decent surge arrestors inside for the WAN port
12:14 PM fragalot: lol, "on the other hand if engineering got it right all the time i never would have learned to produce xray quality welds witha mirror and the stinger duct taped to a broom stick ."
12:41 PM skunkworks: we may be getting fiber here at work finally
12:42 PM fragalot: what the ISP's are doing here, is calling their new offers fiberNet
12:42 PM fragalot: and still supply standard coax cable
12:43 PM SpeedEvil: 'LED' TV.
12:44 PM fragalot: SpeedEvil: still /technically/ correct, if you're leaving the LED part open to interpretation
12:44 PM fragalot: Light Emitting Display ... :D
12:46 PM skunkworks: we have been trying to get a backup service here... (currently through cable - charter) last I called it was going to be really expensive though the phone company.
12:47 PM skunkworks: well - this time they think they can run the fiber and give us internet/phones and our bill should go down.
12:48 PM skunkworks: I figure it is because they want to free up some of the copper we are using...
12:48 PM Tom_L: i'm sure they see it to their advantage or they'd be charging more
12:48 PM skunkworks: or we have been paying way too much for the last 10 years.. ;)
12:49 PM fragalot: they'd still charge more :P
12:49 PM Tom_L: i have
12:49 PM Tom_L: i switched to a cell
12:49 PM fragalot: Tom_L: broke the law eh?
12:49 PM skunkworks: This is a business - probably 100+ phones..
12:49 PM Tom_L: but i don't need a switchboard either
12:49 PM Tom_L: ^^
12:49 PM fragalot: skunkworks: just do it all in the cloud
12:49 PM fragalot: they changed everything over to MS Teams at work because it worked out cheaper
12:50 PM fragalot: and the reason it worked out cheaper
12:50 PM fragalot: is because they stripped all the rights off of everyone
12:50 PM fragalot: can't call international numbers etc
12:50 PM skunkworks: heh - that comes up about once a month...
12:50 PM fragalot: which is really f*cking great for a multinational :P
12:50 PM fragalot: so the fixed phone service costs have gone down
12:50 PM fragalot: but the mobile costs have quadrupled
12:50 PM fragalot: because everyone just uses their cellphone now
12:51 PM gloops: corporate socialism
12:51 PM fragalot: That said, .. I do like MS Teams
12:51 PM fragalot: works pretty well
04:13 PM Deejay: gn8
04:42 PM skunkworks: the rpi4 without cooling gets up to 80c pretty quick
04:42 PM skunkworks: with just a simple fan it stays around 50c
04:45 PM roycroft: my actuator just arrived, and i like it
04:45 PM roycroft: it has a magnetic latching mechanism, which is a great safety feature
05:05 PM JT-Shop: that case I got for the Rpi4 with a built in fan stays around 30C IIRC
05:21 PM roycroft: jt-shop: have you had a chance to use any of those flap grinder discs yet?
05:24 PM JT-Shop: almost used one the other day...
05:25 PM roycroft: i'm just curious if you think they perform well
05:25 PM roycroft: but please don't go grind something just to test them :)
05:27 PM JT-Shop: lol
05:28 PM JT-Shop: I still need to do the grinding but it got put on the back burner for a bit
05:28 PM roycroft: that happens
05:29 PM roycroft: i made this box for my belt grinder switch and cable mount last week, but put it on the back burner until the electronic components arrived
05:29 PM roycroft: which they just did, so i guess it's time to go out to the shop
05:29 PM roycroft: today i really wish i had a cnc machine
05:30 PM roycroft: i have to drill a grid of vent holes in this box
05:30 PM roycroft: probably 100 or so holes
05:30 PM roycroft: that's going to be tedious to do manually
05:30 PM roycroft: especially the deburring on the inside of the box part
05:30 PM roycroft: which a cnc machine would not do for me anyway, i guess
05:31 PM * roycroft hopes his stuff from mcmaster arrives today, as scheduled
05:33 PM skunkworks: I printed one - but have not picked it up
06:01 PM jthornton: just checked it's 36C on the Rpi4
07:04 PM skunkworks: running linuxcnc it is about 47c
07:58 PM skunkworks: jthornton: <30us? with andys image i get into the 120us pretty quick
08:03 PM skunkworks: how is the graphics? like zooming and rotating a axis preview?
08:33 PM jym: skunkworks: Such a tease aint he =)
08:39 PM roycroft: well that was impressive
08:39 PM roycroft: ups dropped off my parcel from mcmaster-carr
08:39 PM roycroft: less than a minute later i got an email from mcmaster-carr (not ups) that my parcel has been delivered
08:41 PM roycroft: and it really was from mcmaster - not ups pretending to be them
08:41 PM roycroft: Received: from spmep105.mcmaster.com (spmep105.mcmaster.com [])
08:41 PM roycroft: CIDR:
08:41 PM roycroft: NetName: MC-MASTE747-25
08:41 PM roycroft: Organization: MC MASTER CARR (MMC-304)
08:42 PM roycroft: not everything about the internet is horrible, i suppose
08:43 PM Rab: roycroft, yeah, McMaster used to be rather vague about when the order was shipped, and you'd get an invoice several days after the order (and sometimes you'd have to ask for it). They've tightened up their game a lot in the past year or two.
08:44 PM roycroft: the only thing i don't like about them is that they won't post shipping cost until they ship
08:44 PM Rab: And I dunno if they've opened up a warehouse nearby or what, but they deliver 9-11am next day with ground shipping now.
08:44 PM roycroft: i'm more impressed that ups send the tracking info to shipers in real real time than that mcmaster sent me the email
08:44 PM Rab: Yeah, true.
08:45 PM roycroft: they've always shipped to me from reno
08:45 PM roycroft: and it's always been 2 days or 3 days
08:45 PM roycroft: mostly 2 days
08:45 PM roycroft: reno is just outside the 1 day zone for ups from me
08:45 PM Rab: Nearest warehouse was in GA, but I think they must have opened one in DFW.
08:46 PM Rab: Mouser and Allied Electronics are in DFW and they get here overnight with ground shipping.
08:46 PM roycroft: i think if you went to the city border of reno and jumped north as far as you could you would be in the 1 day ups zone
08:46 PM roycroft: mouser are horrible about shipping updates
08:46 PM roycroft: every single time they send me something they make some vague promise to ship in 2-3 days
08:46 PM Rab: Huh, I get order/shipping/delivery updates like clockwork.
08:47 PM roycroft: and they eventually send a tracking number that 100% of the time shows as "shipping label created, waiting for reception from vendor" until a day or two after i actualy receive the parcel
08:48 PM Rab: It's completely destroyed local electronics retail to have next day delivery with a 9pm order cutoff.
08:48 PM roycroft: mouser and digi-key are usually 5 days for me
08:48 PM roycroft: allied an newark more like a couple weeks
08:48 PM roycroft: we have no local electronics stores any more
08:49 PM Rab: I'm kinda surprised there's no big distributor in CA.
08:49 PM roycroft: the last one ( not radio shack - that hasn't counted as an electronics store since it was allied radio in the '60s) closed about 5 years ago
08:49 PM roycroft: i think allied are in cali
08:49 PM roycroft: but they take their sweet time shipping
08:50 PM skunkworks: well - I get around 50us with isolcpus=1,2,3
08:50 PM skunkworks: but that seems like a waste..
08:50 PM Rab: Allied (Electronics) is here, as far as I know: https://www.alliedelec.com/customerservice/forms/contactus.aspx
08:50 PM roycroft: and i'm about 100% certain that the current allied electronics are not at all related to the old allied radio that became radio shack
08:50 PM roycroft: except i'm completely wrong about that :)
08:51 PM roycroft: i just looked them up on teh wikipedia
08:51 PM roycroft: they're in fort worth even
08:51 PM roycroft: where tandy/radio shack are/where headquartered
08:51 PM Rab: Yeah, there might be a connection.
08:51 PM roycroft: wikipedia say it's the same company
08:51 PM roycroft: founded in 1928
08:51 PM roycroft: purchased in 1970 by tandy
08:52 PM roycroft: rebranded allied radio shack, later radio shack
08:52 PM roycroft: then sold off in 1999
08:52 PM roycroft: so anyway
08:52 PM skunkworks: digikey is 1 day.
08:52 PM skunkworks: for me
08:52 PM Rab: That's kinda funny. Allied is great to deal with, although their search is clunky and their selection tends more toward industrial controls than components.
08:52 PM Rab: skunkworks, hott
08:53 PM roycroft: are there any europeans around at the moment who are familiar with eu electronics standards?
08:53 PM roycroft: i know it's like after midnight in .eu
08:53 PM roycroft: so i'm probably asking at the wrong time
08:53 PM roycroft: my question is about indicators
08:54 PM skunkworks: huh - google says they are 7 hours away from me.. Thought they where closer..
08:54 PM roycroft: .eu are very particular about what color indicators can be used for particular states of a machine
08:54 PM roycroft: i remember this being a big deal back in the early '90s, when i was heavily invested in telebit modems, as i owned an isp (which was all dialup back then)
08:55 PM Rab: roycroft, zeeshan and I were discussing that the other day.
08:55 PM roycroft: and telebit had to change all the indicators on their modems from red to amber to comply with eu standards
08:55 PM Rab: Well, with regard to pushbuttons.
08:55 PM roycroft: it's clear to me that a red indicator is for a fault condition
08:56 PM roycroft: a green indicator is for everything is running smoothly
08:56 PM roycroft: an amber indicator is an informational indicator
08:56 PM roycroft: what i'm getting at is this
08:56 PM roycroft: i tend to overload some of my circuits, as i don't have enough mains power to power everything at once
08:57 PM roycroft: i handle that by physically plugging in and unplugging machinery as i use it, to a degree
08:57 PM Rab: This is what I was working from, maybe it'll help: https://www.infoplc.net/files/documentacion/seguridad_normativa/infoplc_net_200941458485281.pdf
08:57 PM roycroft: so that i don't pop breakers
08:57 PM roycroft: i like to have indicators on the machines that tell me when the mains are connected
08:57 PM roycroft: but not that the machine is turned on and running
08:58 PM roycroft: i *think* that amber is the appropriate color for that
08:58 PM roycroft: and that green should be reserved for when the machine is actully running
08:58 PM roycroft: so amber for standby, and green for operating
08:59 PM Rab: YELLOW: Abnormal condition, Impending critical condition
08:59 PM roycroft: hmm
08:59 PM roycroft: but telebit changed *all* the indicators on their modems from red to amber
08:59 PM Rab: WHITE: Neutral, Other conditions; Monitoring
08:59 PM roycroft: and none of those indicators are illuminated for faults/failures
09:00 PM Rab: The lathe at work has a standby indicator...I think it's white, might be wrong.
09:00 PM roycroft: in the simplest case, rd and rd are illuminited whenver data are incoming or outgoing, respectively
09:00 PM roycroft: which is what they're supposed to do
09:01 PM roycroft: i'll read through that document - thanks
09:01 PM Rab: This was p.59 btw.
09:01 PM roycroft: standards docs are usually hard to come by unless one is purchasing from the standards organization, and those are always very expensive
09:02 PM roycroft: ok, that's for pushbuttons, not indicators
09:03 PM Rab: I am not sure modem indicators will give useful insight into proper life safety indication for machine tools. It could be they just got a good deal on yellow LEDs.
09:03 PM roycroft: however, i see that the next table, for indicators, also states that yellow (amber) is for an abnormal condition
09:03 PM roycroft: white is for monitoring
09:03 PM roycroft: so i suppose that according to that standard, "mains present" should probably be white
09:04 PM Rab: ISO60204-1 seems hard to come by for free.
09:05 PM roycroft: for the types of indicators i tend to use, white is a difficult color to come by
09:05 PM roycroft: and i don't feel beholden to follow .eu (or any other) standards
09:05 PM roycroft: but if the standard makes sense it's nice to comply with it
09:06 PM roycroft: it's more important imo to be consistent in-house than to comply with any particular stadards body dictate
09:06 PM Rab: Plus you can invite Europenians into your shop without fear of confusing them.
09:06 PM roycroft: i can easily confuse anyone
09:06 PM roycroft: i case you've not figured it out yet, i'm from a different universe than most people
09:07 PM roycroft: i like my universe, but many are confused by it
09:08 PM roycroft: it is time to make dinner
09:08 PM roycroft: thanks for the link
09:08 PM roycroft: looks like an interesting document
09:12 PM Rab: Yeah, I kept it around to refer to. I sometimes put together panel controls for work; not safety critical stuff, but it's nice to have something more authoritative than intuition.
09:13 PM roycroft: i try to do things sensibly
09:14 PM roycroft: and yes, an authoritative standards doc is at the very least a good affirmation
09:14 PM roycroft: and often has better solutions than one's own