#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 27 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:20 AM Choscura is now known as Christopher_HItc
12:25 AM Christopher_HItc is now known as ChristopherHItch
12:25 AM ChristopherHItch is now known as ChristopherHitch
03:42 AM Deejay: moin
04:56 AM jthornton: morning
04:56 AM XXCoder: morning
04:57 AM XXCoder: jthornton: they did it. door is now 12 feet wide lol
04:57 AM XXCoder: and still working on massively upgraded power system
04:57 AM jthornton: did they get the machine in?
04:57 AM XXCoder: not yet
04:57 AM XXCoder: may be while
04:58 AM XXCoder: and someone actually come to look at old cell OMG
04:58 AM XXCoder: its been 2 years since its on sale and nobody looked at it
04:58 AM jthornton: wow
04:59 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:03 AM Tom_L: morning
05:04 AM Tom_L: XXCoder how old is it?
05:04 AM XXCoder: not too sure
05:04 AM XXCoder: but it have windows 20000
05:04 AM XXCoder: -0
05:04 AM Tom_L: how many machines in the cell?
05:04 AM Tom_L: ick
05:04 AM XXCoder: 2 and 2 workstations
05:04 AM XXCoder: pretty much same as a61 I run, but much fewer pallets
05:05 AM Tom_L: one of my kids works at an OMG cell
05:05 AM Tom_L: 4 machines i think
05:05 AM XXCoder: OMG eh heh
05:05 AM XXCoder: wow thats quite large
05:06 AM Tom_L: yeah they've got some pretty big machines there
05:06 AM Tom_L: i think those are the small ones outside of the 3 axis
05:06 AM XXCoder: a61 is 4 axis, so are old cell
05:07 AM Tom_L: other one works on mag 3's
05:07 AM Tom_L: these are all 5 axis
05:07 AM Tom_L: i think
05:08 AM Tom_L: and some zimmermans
05:08 AM XXCoder: fancy
05:22 AM jthornton: I managed to copy my spyder store from webhost4life to dreamhost and get it working over there
05:23 AM XXCoder: :)
05:24 AM jthornton: going to save me a ton of work transferring the domain
07:24 AM Tom_L: always fun trying to get that stuff back up and working
08:08 AM jthornton: I was surprised how easy it was...
08:13 AM * JT-Shop has no packages to pack, no customers broke down, chickens are taken care of... maybe I'll get the shed wiring done today
08:30 AM jdh: bike ride time.
08:49 AM * JT-Shop has come to the conclusion that no work will happen until I spread some straw over the mud...
09:40 AM Loetmichel: Sometimes i ask myself if my boss is getting senile or just has selective memory... he just called "when do you think you will be done with those 8 enclosures you said you will have ready for powder coating yesterday?" $me: "The FOUR i said i will have ready are sitting here beside me ready for coating. the four you brought yesterday evening to make are still in the design, will be done by
09:40 AM Loetmichel: tomorrow noon to go coated with the other ones, AS WE DISCUSSED THIS MORNING, you joker!"... *grr*
01:54 PM Rab: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/its-official-no-more-cheap-shipping-for-chinese-sellers/493043
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: this goes back to the 90's when manufacturing started moving the china in mass scale
02:12 PM Tom_L: Loetmichel he just needs more to do
02:13 PM fragalot: 'sup
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: nothin, whatsup with you?
02:16 PM fragalot: trawling ebay for a toolmakers' microscope
02:16 PM fragalot: what I really should be doing is tidy up the lathe's electronic leadscrew, but ain't nobody got time to actually _finish_ things.
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: "electronic leadscrew" please define
02:19 PM fragalot: replaced the leadscrew change gears with an encoder & hybrid stepper
02:19 PM fragalot: should have done that years ago, it's freaking amazing.
02:19 PM fragalot: no fucking around with gears for 20 minutes just to change the feedrate or set up for threading
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: I just see it used differently
02:20 PM fragalot: and best of all, it has increased my maximum depth of cut by around 4x
02:20 PM fragalot: managing a full 6mm per pass on my dinky little 250x550 lathe
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: last I recall you had gotten the mill through the narrow walkway and inside
02:21 PM fragalot: (in 100CrMo4+QT)
02:21 PM Rab: fragalot, how does it increase depth of cut?
02:21 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: indeed, i've also built a gantry crane since
02:21 PM fragalot: Rab: it no longer wastes power trying to drive the leadscrew with the same motor
02:21 PM fragalot: apparently that ate up a lot of torque
02:22 PM Rab: fragalot, huh, interesting.
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: I'm just workin on puttin synchronized DLP/LCD slices/layers into LCNC
02:23 PM Rab: fragalot, are you using the stock motor?
02:23 PM fragalot: Rab: no, that one got upgraded to a siemens 550W 3phase motor about 2 weeks into owning it after the capacitor blew up
02:23 PM jym: CaptHindsight: slices?
02:23 PM fragalot: guessing that was about 5 years ago now
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: jym: yup, 2D slices of a 3D part fer polymerization
02:24 PM jym: CaptHindsight: ah
02:24 PM jym: I think =)
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: jym: https://youtu.be/5qTAmPrHLow?t=22
02:33 PM jym: CaptHindsight: how long does it take to print a 1" cube?
02:33 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: have you seen that whitepaper on 3D layers in slic3r ?
02:34 PM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km1lvuva5mI
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: not sure, have been using slic3r
02:34 PM fragalot: it is someones' pet project, not in the main branch
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: nonplanar FDM
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: I never looked, has anyone made a multiple nozzle FDM head similar to inkjet and then raster scanned the prints?
02:41 PM fragalot: not that I am aware of
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: nozzle big would be wide but they could interlace scans
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: nozzle pitch
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: jym: sorry, 1" cube, solid or hollow may be printed in ~254 seconds, at 100um XYZ
02:47 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: hollow cube with DLP?
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: yes, just solid walls
02:48 PM fragalot: is it still a cube if there are holes to let the resin out?
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: wall-less cube without walls is subsecond time :)
02:48 PM fragalot: hehe
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: wall-less hollow
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: is it still a cube if the walls are solid but the center is a liquid?
02:49 PM fragalot: i was about to ask if there was a way to print it until the bottom layer, lift up to let it drain fully, then dip back in & continue, but realized that's a bit daft when it needs to peel .....
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: if printed top down then you don't need a drain hole
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: bottom up is terrible
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: all that stress every time you peel
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: solids float to the bottom
02:51 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: that is called sinking.
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: like there are more than one word to describe things
02:52 PM * fragalot is lacking the mental capacity to come up with something witty there
02:53 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: where are you when we need you?
02:53 PM jym: CaptHindsight: ah, very cool
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: late for you there, it's like 27:00 hours somethin
02:54 PM fragalot: somewhere around that, yeah
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: how is your late summer?
02:54 PM fragalot: sweltering
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: we went from 130% humidity and 90-ish (30C) to 70's dry and sun
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: 25C
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: and cool and clear at night
02:56 PM fragalot: it's peaked well over 40°C not too long ago, and is currently well above 30C
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: best end of summer I recall in decades
02:56 PM fragalot: doesn't really cool down at night - and the aircon at work is broken
02:56 PM * t4nk-freenode hardly slept last night because of the heat
02:57 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/783236244.html - just add pump, 12V/20A PSU, and couple of t-shirts with aquarium tubing through them, and done.
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: jym: https://imgur.com/zvxoHUT this one has a 140um (.0055") XY and a 21' x 12" build area
03:00 PM jym: CaptHindsight: IS the DLP always a distance from the printing surface, or jsut directly above it?
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: I found that just using a camping air mattress partially filled with water (few L) cools really well
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: jym: depends on optics
03:00 PM SpeedEvil: yeah - if you're at the point ambient air temp is cooler than body temp
03:00 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Well, typucaly?
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: jym: depends on throw distance and what you want for XY
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: 10 ft x 20 ft prints are usually several feet from the printer, 4" x 2" very close
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: printer/projector
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: it's not like a LCD printer where the display is directly under the resin vat
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: by directly i mean directly attached, no gap
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: the air mattress spreads the heat, add a few frozen gel packs and you're good for the night
03:04 PM SpeedEvil: ah
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: or fill with 5C tap water before bed
03:04 PM fragalot: that actually sounds tempting
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: and cheap
03:05 PM fragalot: don't have any cheap inflatable mattresses though
03:05 PM SpeedEvil: First find 5C tap-water.
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: $7 for a camping mattress
03:05 PM fragalot: yeah, i've only got $150+ ones >.> don't want water in those.
03:05 PM SpeedEvil: Also, with cheap matresses, consider the cost of water getting where you don't want it.
03:06 PM fragalot: SpeedEvil: just drape a plastic sheet over the real mattress :P
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: very little pressure inside, you only fill it with a few liters or water and hardly any air
03:06 PM fragalot: stack it all together in a soothing crinkly mess
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/outdoor-recreation/camping-rv-supplies/air-mattresses-pumps/intex-reg-inflatable-fabric-camping-air-mattress/67997e/p-1444436075035-c-12462.htm
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: we tried these
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: was going to order these https://www.ciamedical.com/adroit-medical-system-st-060-each-blanket-hypo-hyperthermia-ad
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: but didn't have to
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: no leaks and did the trick
03:09 PM fragalot: all i've got at the moment is a fan with a damp towel built into it with a little aquarium pump
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: tap water here is 10C
03:09 PM fragalot: at the start when the water is still cold, it works great
03:09 PM fragalot: after that it just makes the room humid
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: the big difference was adding these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9FJSTfoREE
03:11 PM fragalot: we're not quite at the point of requiring that just yet
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: if it's over 20C I'm not comfortable
03:12 PM jym: fragalot: got freezer?
03:12 PM fragalot: I do have a portable A/C unit for downstairs if it gets real bad, but that is only capable of lowering the temp by ~5°C
03:12 PM fragalot: the downstairs here is one large open area, which looks great, but makes temperature control a bit more demanding
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: the vents in my truck with the AC gets down to -2C
03:13 PM fragalot: (when I say large, it's probably about the size of an average american bathroom)
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: I have to turn it off from time to time to de-ice the coil
03:14 PM fragalot: lol
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: i need to move somewhere cooler
03:14 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: shame greenland isn't for sale ey
03:15 PM SpeedEvil: Plenty of land in Alaska.
03:15 PM jym: fragalot: got freezer?
03:16 PM fragalot: jym: sure, but that's dumping more heat back into the room than it pulls out
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: Conan goes to Greenland https://youtu.be/hT05eN3C3kI?t=19
03:16 PM jym: SpeedEvil: dependss on if it keeps melting
03:19 PM jym: fragalot: freeze (used) water bottles, then toss in an ice chest with a couple of inches of water, run a small pump into the ice chest thryu a bunch of tubing like a pseudo radiator in front of a fan. When the bottle thaw, have another set in the freezer ready to go
03:19 PM fragalot: jym: that is basically how it the current setup works
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: jym: we were going to recirculate 50F tap water but it ended up being too cold
03:19 PM jym: insulate the feed and return tubing
03:20 PM jym: CaptHindsight: the speed of the pump determines temperature
03:20 PM jym: they use that for knee surgery replacment
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ciamedical.com/adroit-medical-system-st-060-each-blanket-hypo-hyperthermia-ad
03:21 PM jym: https://www.amazon.com/Polar-Products-Active-Therapy-System/dp/B001ALNM3A
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: room temp was 82F max 28C
03:21 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Only $35 too
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: $7 https://www.menards.com/main/outdoors/outdoor-recreation/camping-rv-supplies/air-mattresses-pumps/intex-reg-inflatable-fabric-camping-air-mattress/67997e/p-1444436075035-c-12462.htm
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: water was <$0.01
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: roll it around a few frozen gel packs, frozen water bottles, liquid nitrogen etc
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: then unroll before use
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: if the room is over 90F (32C) I'd circulate tap water or through an active cooler
03:32 PM jym: QUESITON.... If 100 gallons of LN2 is -320F, what happens if the tank is left untouched for a month?
03:32 PM SpeedEvil: jym: depends on the tank.
03:32 PM SpeedEvil: For ~$1000, you can get a 30l dewar that will keep some for a year
03:32 PM SpeedEvil: 10% boils off in a month
03:33 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.boconline.co.uk/en/products-and-supply/cryogenic-equipment/dewars-and-accessories/dewars-and-accessories.html
03:33 PM jym: So the liquid in the tank that is sealed off, converts into gas?
03:33 PM SpeedEvil: It's not sealed off, or you have a bad time.
03:34 PM jym: So even transpoart tankers are "vented"?
03:34 PM SpeedEvil: yes.
03:34 PM SpeedEvil: If cryogenic.
03:34 PM SpeedEvil: Or have large heatpumps.
03:35 PM jym: Well, what if it's 1000 gallon tank holding 100 gallons of LN2 that is sealed?
03:35 PM XXCoder: no vents = bomb
03:36 PM SpeedEvil: yup.
03:36 PM SpeedEvil: Or you engineer it to take ~3400PSI or whatever.
03:36 PM jym: Whts the volume conparion?
03:36 PM SpeedEvil: ~600:1 or so
03:36 PM XXCoder: even different kind of tankers that dont have vents only partially fill tank, and inside have big baffles because changing volume can screw with driving
03:36 PM SpeedEvil: Liquid to gas at 14PSI
03:37 PM jym: Ok one gallon of LN2 in a 1000 gal tank?
03:37 PM XXCoder: it have emergacy vents even there
03:37 PM XXCoder: because you dont want it to be ponental bomb
03:38 PM SpeedEvil: jym: It evaporates at ~10%/month of the full capacity
03:38 PM SpeedEvil: So 100g/mo, so 6 hours.
03:38 PM XXCoder: well its already set to have vent so how much it contains dont matter
03:38 PM jym: SpeedEvil: But evap where if the tank is sealed?
03:38 PM SpeedEvil: No cryogenic tanks are sealed.
03:38 PM jym: SpeedEvil: or do you mena converts to gas form?
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: only these are sealed https://www.airgas.com/p/NI%20300
03:39 PM jym: CaptHindsight: I have one of those 80CF
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: i use the gas, and i keep it in these szie 300
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: size even
03:40 PM jym: I only have a CGA-580 80CF
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.2spi.com/item/z10415/liquid-nitrogen-dewars/
03:40 PM jym: SpeedEvil: So bascally after 6 hours, I'll just have a tank of nitrogen gas?
03:40 PM SpeedEvil: yes
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: i has a gas supplier steps my the lab but we get it from other suppliers
03:41 PM SpeedEvil: about a kilo total at 1000l
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: most vendros near the city want you on a rental plan
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: vendros/venders
03:42 PM jym: SpeedEvil: ok, thanks
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: same for dewars
03:43 PM andypugh: Where do you get 6 hours from? The ones in that listing loose less than a litre a day.
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: tank not the scotch
03:43 PM jym: Oh, what about in a vacuum tank (like the old thermos) ?
03:44 PM jym: double envelope tank?
03:44 PM CaptHindsight: jym: https://www.westairgases.com/blog/to-know-your-dewar-is-to-love-your-dewar
03:47 PM jym: CaptHindsight: MY questions were mostly in theory. Like why can't we storage thermal energy (hot or cold) and recall it as needed, sorta kinda bending the laws of physics sorta thing, not breaking them.
03:47 PM jym: Or like why is it a nice 55F six feet down, but nobody utilizes that -shrug-
03:48 PM fragalot: jym: people do use that
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: heat pumps are anti-uhmerican
03:48 PM jym: fragalot: rarely
03:48 PM jym: CaptHindsight: eh true
03:48 PM fragalot: jym: depends on where you are
03:48 PM fragalot: they're just pricey up front
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: why do we drive everywhere?
03:49 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: have you ever tried to walk somewhere in the US?
03:49 PM fragalot: there are no usable sidewalks in most areas, and zero crossings on some roads
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: thats the plan stan
03:50 PM fragalot: (at least in the areas around where I've been in the US :-))
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: cities are pretty well covered
03:50 PM jym: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD_3_gsgsnk
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: they decided years ago that selling gasoline was better than sidewalks, trains (high or low speed) street cars, etc
03:51 PM jym: that is the best damn example
03:52 PM jym: -25F and growing oranges
03:52 PM XXCoder: frag depends on where. theres sidewalks everywhere gere
03:52 PM fragalot: jym: not shown is the cost of the electricity required VS the cost of just doing the same thing using natural gas
03:52 PM fragalot: XXCoder: of course
03:53 PM fragalot: hence me specifying "the areas I've frequented"
03:53 PM jym: fragalot: you didn get thru a 18m video in that time
03:53 PM fragalot: jym: I know the technology well enough to know, like I said geothermal is not that uncommon
03:54 PM fragalot: is it a good tech? yes.
03:54 PM fragalot: there are even areas here where factories dump their waste heat to local homes to heat them
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: solar power will never be economically sound in the USA
03:54 PM fragalot: which is way cheaper than running most geothermal setups
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: because they say so
03:55 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: of course
03:55 PM fragalot: but the price of electricity is never going to decline is it
03:58 PM SpeedEvil: jym: It's 55F some feet down if your average air temp is 55F.
03:58 PM SpeedEvil: Here, it's 40F.
03:58 PM fragalot: SpeedEvil: just dig deeper
03:59 PM SpeedEvil: Need to go km down
03:59 PM fragalot: on my boss' house they go down 160m
03:59 PM fragalot: sorry, 60m
04:01 PM fragalot: anyway i'm off - cya
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: in more urban area they could have placed large heat pipes underground to share
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: NYC even did it with steam
04:02 PM SpeedEvil: https://eurogeologists.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/figure1-1-von-1.jpg - is down 1km in the UK
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: in Beijing they heat neighborhoods from central boilers
04:03 PM SpeedEvil: Some bits are as low as 23C even 1km down
04:04 PM SpeedEvil: I am annoyed I can't find the near subsurface (30mish) one.
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: psychedelic map of the UK from 1970 :)
04:05 PM SpeedEvil: But IIRC here it's 7C at 56N
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-project-maps-us-geothermal-energy-potential/
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.php?page=geothermal_where
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: jym: we don't do much here since the idiocracy is "burn baby burn" fossil fuels
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.ecomech.net/ewp/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Geothermal-Map-of-the-USA-600x387.jpg
04:55 PM _unreal_: Long flipping day
06:07 PM * jthornton calls it a day
11:24 PM _unreal_: sup
11:24 PM _unreal_: who's around?
11:24 PM _unreal_: wondering what I should choose https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Bearings-Washers-28000rpm-Limiting/dp/B07W1YVVSL/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?keywords=uxcell+Tc411+Needle+Roller+Thrust+Bearings+1%2F4%22&qid=1566965101&s=gateway&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFPTkdEMlZMM1NYSlAmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAwNTg5MzUxNEs2UEdEQ1lQUjdGJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3OTE5MTIyVzZEOFJVT1BNVVhRJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmR
11:24 PM _unreal_: vTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
11:24 PM _unreal_: this? https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Bearings-Washers-28000rpm-Limiting/dp/B07VXSLPT1/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=uxcell+Tc411+Needle+Roller+Thrust+Bearings+1%2F4%22&qid=1566965101&s=gateway&sr=8-1
11:24 PM _unreal_: or
11:29 PM flyback: https://realterm.sourceforge.io/