#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 18 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:43 AM RyanS: my VFD has two parameters that can only be obtained without a load on the motor. 'no load current' and 'mutual inductive reactance'. is there a way to calculate it using only the data off the motors nameplate?
02:26 AM Deejay: moin
03:27 AM RyanS: woo got the 3 phase dust extractor running on a vfd, no blue smoke
04:53 AM jthornton: morning
06:11 AM Tom_L: morning
06:23 AM jthornton: morning
06:24 AM XXCoder: morning
06:43 AM jthornton: john@raspberrypi:~ $ uname -a
06:43 AM jthornton: Linux raspberrypi 4.19.59-rt23-v7l+ #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Sun Aug 18 05:22:58 CDT 2019 armv7l GNU/Linux
06:43 AM jthornton: dang I got preempt rt going on the rpi4!
06:43 AM XXCoder: you the god!
06:51 AM XXCoder: so working on it some more :)
06:51 AM XXCoder: wish I had more willpower to do anything
06:54 AM CaptHindsight: time to compile a kernel for pi4 on a new x86 machine is just a few minutes
06:55 AM jthornton: doesn't take long on the rpi4 either
06:56 AM jthornton: the only instructions I've found to compile a kernel on a x86 are just too complicated to follow
06:58 AM jthornton: using ssh it's just copy and paste so plenty easy to do
07:00 AM CaptHindsight: you'd figure after several years and groups like yacto that this would be a snap but it's not
07:00 AM jthornton: what's this?
07:00 AM XXCoder: not that many needs to compile kernel
07:01 AM CaptHindsight: this situation need s a good working preempt_rt kernel and bootloader
07:12 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.yoctoproject.org/ not much
07:16 AM jthornton: wow I get dizzy looking at that page, someone spent way too much time trying to be flashy
07:27 AM CaptHindsight: a bunch of well funded super corps and this is what they come up with
08:00 AM jthornton: looks like I'll get all the LinuxCNC depends installed before free time is up...
08:04 AM jthornton: hmmm maybe not...
08:31 AM _unreal_: freetime?
08:31 AM _unreal_: heh my freetime just woke up.. DAD DAD DAD DAD I'm hungry
08:36 AM Deejay: re
08:45 AM _unreal_: wholy shit he talks rather then saying gn8 for once
09:01 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:03 PM perry_j1987_: any volunteer's to come clean up my shop for me?
12:14 PM _unreal_: I always $$$ volunteer
12:15 PM jym: lol
12:15 PM _unreal_: though I believe your a little more thne a hop skip and a jump from me. me being in SOUTH florida
12:15 PM _unreal_: you know down where the palm tree's say
12:15 PM _unreal_: sway
12:20 PM perry_j1987_: well i guess i dodge another bullet and i get to keep what i find as im cleaning yet again :P
12:37 PM _unreal_: I just ordered a few of these http://www.bgmicro.com/mini-pump-or-vacuum-12v-operation.aspx
12:37 PM _unreal_: cant beat the price and brushless
12:37 PM _unreal_: i'm looking at it as a vac pump for using as a hold down
12:37 PM _unreal_: I'll likely make a starboard design and add it to it
12:53 PM zhivko: hi guys!
12:53 PM zhivko: I have problem with limit switches - I am getting "joint 0 on limit switch error"
12:53 PM zhivko: in homing procedure G28
12:55 PM zhivko: Isn't normal to trip switch in G28
12:55 PM zhivko: Why it says this sis an error ? don't get it...
12:55 PM zhivko: anybody here ?
12:57 PM zhivko: I have debouncing in place
12:57 PM zhivko: I use NC limit switch
01:04 PM jthornton: noone is home...
01:04 PM zhivko: oh... shame
01:04 PM jthornton: with homing if you get joint x on limit error your homing is misconfigured
01:05 PM zhivko: I use NC limit switch and debounce... How do you mean misconfigured ?... my ini is at: https://github.com/zhivko/PipeCutter/blob/master/src/main/resources/myini/machinekit/CRAMPS.ini
01:05 PM zhivko: When I issue G28 X250, x axis starts moving when it hit limit switch I get this error...
01:06 PM jthornton: ah this is not machinekit
01:06 PM zhivko: Isn't limit switch tripping at homing procedure omething normal ?
01:06 PM zhivko: OK ... but it is fork of linuxcnc
01:06 PM jthornton: yes in order to home you must trip the limit/home switch if combined twice
01:06 PM jthornton: fork was a long long time ago...
01:07 PM zhivko: if combined twice? What this means ?
01:07 PM zhivko: How twice ?
01:07 PM jthornton: no telling what has changed there and here
01:07 PM zhivko: Ah fast and slow ? OK...
01:07 PM zhivko: you mean with latch speed ... OK ... but it doesn't get to that point at all
01:07 PM zhivko: It throws error and goes into emergency stop
01:07 PM jthornton: well I know nothing about machinekit but for LinuxCNC you trip the switch twice to home or not depends on the configuration
01:08 PM jthornton: hmm Monique just laid her egg brb
01:08 PM zhivko: OK I have setHOME_SEARCH_VEL = 2.0HOME_LATCH_VEL = 0.5HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 2.0HOME_LATCH_VEL = 0.5
01:08 PM zhivko: I belive that should make it to do it 2 times... but Why error ?
01:09 PM zhivko: oh :(
01:09 PM zhivko: I'm alone than
01:11 PM jthornton: actually it was Tu-Tu that laid the egg, they switched places on me
01:11 PM jthornton: is your switch also used as a limit switch?
01:11 PM zhivko: how can I know that ?
01:12 PM zhivko: it is meant to be only limit switch nothing more
01:12 PM zhivko: just want to home X axis that's all
01:13 PM jthornton: did you make the configuration?
01:13 PM gregcnc: shouldn't latch be negative if you're coming off the switch?
01:13 PM jthornton: in a nutshell if home and limit are the same switch you must tell LinuxCNC that but no clue for machinekit!\
01:14 PM jthornton: the search and latch can be several ways, one must look at the chart in the document...
01:14 PM zhivko: OK how do you do that in linuxcnc
01:14 PM zhivko: ?
01:14 PM jthornton: does machinekit have documents?
01:14 PM gregcnc: does machinekit provide documentation?
01:15 PM jthornton: lol
01:15 PM zhivko: Yes!
01:15 PM gregcnc: hmm?
01:15 PM gregcnc: are tehy incorrect?
01:15 PM jthornton: did you look in the homing section where ever that might be
01:15 PM zhivko: In linuxcnc how do you tell that: "home and limit are the same switch" ?
01:15 PM zhivko: yes ofcourse
01:15 PM zhivko: http://www.machinekit.io/docs/config/ini_homing/#home_offset
01:16 PM jthornton: HOME_IS_SHARED
01:16 PM zhivko: They use different terminology: Switch and Index
01:16 PM jthornton: everything you should need to setup homing on machinekit should be there
01:17 PM Tom_L: not layed out as clear as linuxcnc though
01:17 PM zhivko: AH yes: Set this value to 0 to permit homing even if the switch is already closed.
01:17 PM Tom_L: i doubt they changed that part of it when they forked
01:17 PM zhivko: I think you are correct - but they have different terminology: switch and index? Is index meant to be "limit"?
01:18 PM jthornton: you would have to ask them what they mean
01:18 PM gregcnc: we use index too, but it's a separate signal fromteh encoder
01:19 PM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/ini-homing.html
01:19 PM Tom_L: it appears the same. they just copied the text
01:19 PM jthornton: that is our document page on homing configuration
01:19 PM gregcnc: if you have a single home switch, latch direction must be opoosite homing direction
01:19 PM gregcnc: common error
01:20 PM zhivko: will try
01:20 PM jthornton: not true
01:20 PM gregcnc: well i guess it's not the only option, but parking on the limit switch can be a problem
01:20 PM jthornton: they can both be positive
01:21 PM jthornton: and that's what I use on all my machines
01:22 PM jthornton: positive/negative is only used when you overshoot the home switch during search
01:22 PM gregcnc: no you're right
01:23 PM jthornton: if your home switch can not be overshot then you use positive/positive and it make 3 moves... search, back off, latch
01:23 PM jthornton: the biggest problem is not moving off of the home switch during the homing process
01:24 PM jthornton: if your still tripping the home switch it then becomes the limit switch and walla your on the limit
01:24 PM gregcnc: right
01:25 PM Tom_L: it wouldn't be worth the trouble but you _could_ put it thru a one shot or something like that to avoid that
01:25 PM zhivko: hmm HOME_USE_INDEX didn't help
01:25 PM gregcnc: his ini looks OK, but I'm not sure how much is different than Linuxcnc
01:25 PM zhivko: it should be same as linuxcnc
01:25 PM gregcnc: index is expecting an index pulse form an encoder
01:26 PM zhivko: I keep getting: joint 0 on limit switch error
01:26 PM zhivko: When limit is tripped
01:27 PM jthornton: do you have encoder with an index?
01:27 PM zhivko: Also When limit is in tripped state, when I reset linuxcnc - I get: "joint 0 on limit switch error" - I thinkn I need to tell it it is normal operation...
01:27 PM zhivko: no...
01:27 PM zhivko: I dont have any encoder
01:27 PM zhivko: steppers
01:28 PM jthornton: then you don't use home use index
01:28 PM zhivko: should I use override limits ?'
01:28 PM gregcnc: You can't start the machine with a limit tripped
01:28 PM zhivko: why not ?
01:28 PM zhivko: it can happen ...
01:28 PM jthornton: no you should configure the homing to move away from the limit switch
01:28 PM gregcnc: if you have one switch for each end you can I think
01:29 PM * jthornton hopes building LinuxCNC for the RPi4 works this time...
01:29 PM gregcnc: if you have common switches the machine doesn't know which way is safe
01:29 PM zhivko: to move away ?? How when than homing be made if it is moving away from limit switch ?
01:30 PM gregcnc: you must initiate homing with axis inside limits
01:30 PM gregcnc: if it's on a limit you must override and manually move the axis to a safe position , then home
01:30 PM jthornton: you set the home position some place away from the trip point
01:30 PM gambakufu: I've built lcnc for the rpi3 and it was pretty much the same as on a pc.
01:31 PM zhivko: override limit - how it is connected in hal ?
01:31 PM zhivko: Where can I see that ?
01:31 PM jthornton: pretty much different if your trying to use raspian 10...
01:31 PM _unreal_: I built a custom pcb just or that
01:31 PM zhivko: jthornton: yes I am inside limits when I start homing (G28)
01:31 PM jthornton: you don't want to override the limit in hal you want to move to a place away from the switch
01:31 PM gregcnc: if you are inside limits and getting the limit switch error somethign else is wrong
01:31 PM _unreal_: it allows you to use telephone cord as your signal wire. and does a breakout for the limit switch(s)
01:32 PM zhivko: OK I am away from switch - I turn off steppers and move by hand away from switch within limits.
01:32 PM _unreal_: so or ethernet and has a power button that makes it easy to turn off the limit switch signal so you can jog the machine off of the limit switch
01:33 PM zhivko: It is OK... but that when I start G28 X250 - it moves toward position X250 - than it hits switch - and I get joint 0 on limit switch error
01:33 PM jthornton: zhivko, do you have HOME_OFFSET set?
01:33 PM zhivko: yes
01:33 PM zhivko: HOME_OFFSET = 250.00
01:34 PM Tom_L: zhivko when you trip the limit switch do you back off a little from it for the home position?
01:34 PM zhivko: you men inside G28 procedure ?
01:34 PM _unreal_: zhivko, hwen you hit your limit you should trip the limit. and any other limits as assigned. then back off to a set location and defeine that location as zero
01:35 PM _unreal_: or to a location as needed
01:35 PM Tom_L: G28 doesn't have anything to do with the initial homing sequence
01:35 PM _unreal_: oh 28 didnt see tha
01:35 PM zhivko: I dont use initial homing sequence
01:35 PM Tom_L: you use G28 _after_ you have determined the limits and home
01:36 PM zhivko: I use G28 X250 as homing command
01:36 PM Tom_L: then G28 doesn't know where to go
01:36 PM _unreal_: zhivko, you MUST set a known home before you can offset
01:36 PM Tom_L: if no initial home point has been set
01:36 PM zhivko: Tom_L: I guess negative or positive speed can determine where in which direction to go
01:36 PM Tom_L: whether it be soft limits or hard switches
01:36 PM gregcnc: the machine must know where in axis travels it is
01:36 PM Tom_L: zhivko yes
01:37 PM _unreal_: other wise your offset is a floating location and the machine has no idea where it is
01:37 PM zhivko: My understanding is positive velocity is velocity where x axis changes positively
01:37 PM zhivko: So from velocity direction is known no?
01:38 PM _unreal_: zhivko, the machine needs to know HOW much travel it can safely take in + or - direction
01:38 PM gregcnc: position is unkown
01:38 PM Tom_L: you're talking about direction. we're talking about position
01:38 PM * jthornton thinks he solved the raspbian puzzle with configure...
01:38 PM gregcnc: machinekit allows code execution without homing?
01:38 PM zhivko: position for X axis is whatever it is when linuxcnc is started on...
01:39 PM Tom_L: gregcnc i doubt it
01:39 PM _unreal_: YOU zhivko are giving a tape measure to a machine that works in PITCH BLACK. it has no idea where it is other then its moved a certain distance from its original location.
01:39 PM zhivko: gregcnc: yes
01:39 PM Tom_L: their docs on this are identical
01:39 PM gregcnc: that's instant machine crash
01:39 PM gregcnc: all CNC must be refernced (homed) upon power unless they have absolute encoders
01:39 PM Tom_L: yeah you should go talk to the machinekit ppl
01:40 PM zhivko: Tom_L: I am asking for linuxcnc...
01:40 PM _unreal_: your ignoring advice zhivko
01:40 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/NEW_MILL_2.7/new_mill.ini
01:40 PM gregcnc: In linuxcnc you MUST home
01:40 PM Tom_L: zhivko there's my config
01:40 PM Tom_L: look at the home_xxxx settings
01:40 PM Tom_L: for each axis
01:41 PM Tom_L: i travel to the switch then back off a bit to set home
01:41 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I hear your machine was kind of TOUCH and go THERE..
01:43 PM zhivko: I will try with: SEARCH_VEL=0
01:43 PM gregcnc: won't help
01:43 PM Tom_L: post your config somewhere
01:43 PM Tom_L: (not here)
01:44 PM jthornton: paste.ubuntu.com
01:45 PM jthornton: gregcnc, no, you don't have to home... you can turn that feature off
01:46 PM zhivko: Oh jessus...
01:46 PM zhivko: G28 is not HOMING at all
01:46 PM gregcnc: you can, but it's not really homes
01:46 PM gregcnc: why would it if....... SEARCH_VEL=0
01:47 PM zhivko: I used G28 as homing - I should use another command... I am doing my own machinekit client btw...
01:47 PM jthornton: g28 is NOT how you home
01:47 PM jthornton: at least in LinuxCNC it's NOT how you home
01:47 PM Tom_L: zhivko tried to tell you that
01:48 PM zhivko: Tom_L: well you were not fast enough - anyway thanks !!
01:49 PM Tom_L: Warning: Only use G28 when your machine is homed to a repeatable position and the desired G28 position has been stored with G28.1.
01:50 PM zhivko: Oh I goot: invalid homing config: non-zero LATCH_VEL needs either SEARCH_VEL or USE_INDEX
01:50 PM Tom_L: so you _could_ jog to where you want to set home and issue a G28.1 (axis)
01:51 PM Tom_L: HOME_OFFSET = 0.10
01:51 PM Tom_L: HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 2.50
01:51 PM gregcnc: G28 is a move to home position, not for homing (referencing) the machine
01:51 PM Kevin`: what's the actual homing command? i've always done it through one of the frontends, so it doesn't log
01:51 PM Tom_L: HOME_LATCH_VEL = -0.20
01:51 PM Tom_L: HOME_SEQUENCE = 1
01:51 PM Tom_L: those are my homing settings
01:52 PM zhivko: I think it will work this time :)
01:53 PM Tom_L: Kevin` it probably uses G10 after some seek routine built into axis but this is just a guess
01:54 PM zhivko: OH :( it start homing procedure for X axis but then i again got: "joint 0 on limit switch error" moving of axis didnt stopped when limit tripped
01:54 PM jthornton: successfully configured for 'uspace-Raspbian-10'-'uspace'.. YIPPIEE
01:54 PM Tom_L: for it to back off the switch reverse the latch velocity
01:55 PM Tom_L: jthornton, now whatcha gonna do?
01:55 PM jthornton: go play with the chickens
01:55 PM gregcnc: how did you start homing?
01:55 PM zhivko: Tom_L: will try this now
01:56 PM Tom_L: notice my HOME_LATCH_VEL is negative
01:56 PM zhivko: Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/134565d5cc45f9c322405b5197227c11/image.png
01:57 PM zhivko: gregcnc: check pic
01:57 PM Tom_L: are you messin with the code or the config?
01:58 PM zhivko: both
01:58 PM Tom_L: you shouldn't have to fix the code just to home a machine
01:58 PM Tom_L: there are enough config parameters to home it just fine
01:58 PM zhivko: HOME_LATCH_VEL negative didn't help
02:01 PM zhivko: In machinekit help I can read: Warning
02:01 PM Tom_L: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/32-documents/12146-an-explanation-of-limits-homing-hope-its-clear
02:08 PM gregcnc: he's creating a "home all" button for his machinekit interface. way over my pay grade
02:09 PM Tom_L: naw, you can do that with ngcgui
02:09 PM Tom_L: better have home_sequence set though
02:09 PM Tom_L: or z might hit something
02:10 PM Tom_L: mmm, maybe not 'home' but i have buttons to 'goto' once set
02:10 PM Tom_L: probably go dig thru the axis code to see
02:13 PM gregcnc: i'ts not even a mill looks to be a tube cutting machine like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Ck2x-X-4c
02:13 PM Tom_L: hmm
02:15 PM zhivko: yes... here it is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn0LQK8BILM
02:16 PM Tom_L: did you build it?
02:16 PM zhivko: yes
02:16 PM Tom_L: cool
02:17 PM zhivko: maybe somebody know what override limits command do ?
02:17 PM zhivko: it is in gmocappy
02:19 PM Tom_L: dunno, i use HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS in my config
02:19 PM Tom_L: probably because i'm using a single switch for limit and homing
02:19 PM zhivko: It seems my linuxcnc goes into error immediately when limit switch trips
02:19 PM Tom_L: ^^ try that
02:19 PM Tom_L: read what it does first
02:20 PM Tom_L: it's been a while for me
02:20 PM zhivko: I have now: HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES
02:20 PM Tom_L: for each axis
02:20 PM Tom_L: that you need it on
02:22 PM Tom_L: If you do not have a separate home switch set this to YES and case connect the limit switch signal to the home switch input in HAL. LinuxCNC will ignore the limit switch input for this axis while homing.
02:24 PM Tom_L: you should add a limit switch to the window
02:26 PM zhivko: I have separate home switch
02:26 PM gregcnc: where is the home switch in realtion to the physical travel limits
02:26 PM zhivko: I use only xmax
02:26 PM zhivko: I am examining signal axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
02:27 PM zhivko: An I see it changes from false to true when I manually press it
02:27 PM zhivko: gregcnc: I will make a photo
02:27 PM gregcnc: between the limits?
02:28 PM zhivko: gregcnc: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jb63LcTyAvdL5TER6
02:28 PM zhivko: you can see it on left side
02:28 PM zhivko: yes
02:28 PM zhivko: it is between limits... is this wrong ?
02:28 PM Tom_L: is that the 'Y' axis?
02:28 PM zhivko: limit are -400, 400
02:29 PM zhivko: no it's X axis
02:29 PM Tom_L: ok
02:29 PM Tom_L: Y is the material movement forward / rev then?
02:30 PM zhivko: Tom_L: exactly
02:30 PM zhivko: is it regular to have: HOME_OFFSET = 250.00, and MIN_LIMIT = -400.0 MAX_LIMIT = 400.0
02:30 PM gregcnc: home=0?
02:31 PM zhivko: gregcnc: sorry? dont understand
02:31 PM gregcnc: is that the value for axis 0
02:31 PM zhivko: I am homing only axis 0 - yes
02:31 PM gregcnc: no
02:32 PM gregcnc: HOME = 0.000
02:32 PM zhivko: Yes those are values from INI for AXIS_0
02:32 PM zhivko: Also HOME=0 is for AXIS_0
02:32 PM Tom_L: what about HOME_OFFSET?
02:33 PM zhivko: my ini and hal files are in: https://github.com/zhivko/PipeCutter/tree/master/src/main/resources/myini/machinekit
02:33 PM zhivko: ini is in: https://github.com/zhivko/PipeCutter/blob/master/src/main/resources/myini/machinekit/CRAMPS.ini
02:33 PM Tom_L: which is the main ini?
02:35 PM Tom_L: HOME_OFFSET seems rather large but i'm used to a mill config
02:36 PM gloops: the things you forget, HOME_OFFSET is that where the axis parks after homing?
02:36 PM Tom_L: yes i'm pretty sure
02:36 PM zhivko: yes... to 0
02:36 PM Tom_L: no, to 250
02:36 PM zhivko: CRAMPS.ini is main ini
02:36 PM Tom_L: HOME_OFFSET = 250
02:37 PM gloops: if its set to 0 the axis will stay at 0
02:37 PM gloops: if its 250 the axis will home, then move to 250 and sit
02:37 PM zhivko: from manual: HOME_OFFSET
02:37 PM gloops: i used home offset on mine to bring the spindle where it was easy to change tool
02:38 PM zhivko: so 250 is the right one... from picture above positive is to the left I have limit switch on 250mm position
02:38 PM Tom_L: try changing that value and see what happens
02:39 PM gregcnc: I think that's fine
02:39 PM Tom_L: probably
02:39 PM Tom_L: but i don't know what he's using for a homing sequence
02:39 PM gregcnc: I don't understand how the axis can move to 400 without crashing the home switch
02:40 PM Tom_L: seem to be several unknowns here
02:41 PM gregcnc: I'm not familiar with home signals in hal, but I don't see any?
02:41 PM Tom_L: i didn't open the hal file
02:42 PM gloops: it depends where you are putting the machine 0
02:42 PM gloops: you want your 0 in the centre?
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: maybe it doesn't like being poked with a stick
02:43 PM gloops: good job it doesnt live with me then
02:43 PM Tom_L: net limit-x-max => axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
02:43 PM Tom_L: net limit-z-max => axis.2.pos-lim-sw-in
02:43 PM Tom_L: 2 limits used
02:43 PM Tom_L: so x max should be 400
02:44 PM Tom_L: because the ini says -400 to 400 for limits
02:44 PM zhivko: gloops: yes in center
02:45 PM gregcnc: how many switches on axis0 ?
02:45 PM zhivko: so limits sshould be smaller than switch ?
02:45 PM zhivko: Is this rule to follow ?
02:46 PM zhivko: on axis0 only one
02:46 PM zhivko: Xmax
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: zhivko: yes, or you then have to override the software limits
02:46 PM zhivko: I mean on positive side +x
02:46 PM zhivko: CaptHindsight: is this written in some manual? How could I know that arghhh...
02:47 PM Tom_L: so when the X limit trips try setting X with G10 L20 P0 X400
02:47 PM zhivko: It seems it is clear to verybody in thi chat room ?
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: it's has to do with homing
02:47 PM Tom_L: i think)
02:47 PM zhivko: will try to set limits to 240... instead 400
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: yes, it's frustrating when you don't know
02:47 PM gregcnc: yes that should do it
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: the machine stops and you don't know why
02:47 PM Tom_L: gregcnc, which?
02:48 PM gloops: zhivko we cant spoon feed you all the answers you wont learn nuthin
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: I fight this issue with 3d printer software
02:48 PM gregcnc: move teh home/limit switch position outside soft limits
02:48 PM gloops: this way your brain is stretching and become rubbery
02:48 PM Tom_L: i guess i assumed that
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: it'sd even worse with them since they don't document and they assume you do a home sequence first
02:48 PM zhivko: gloops: but this should be in some manual right? You think it is? Have I overlooked it in linuxcnc documentation ?
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: you CAN'T soft home
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: i have only a minute, let me find it
02:49 PM gregcnc: if you only have one switch, but I thought you said home switch was between limit switches
02:49 PM jthornton: we only have the one manual but it's getting bloated again with unrelated stuff again sigh
02:49 PM zhivko: no:( doesnt help me either...
02:50 PM gloops: Note
02:50 PM gloops: The home switch location, as indicated by the HOME_OFFSET variable, must be strictly within the soft limits. That is, MIN_LIMIT < HOME_OFFSET < MAX_LIMIT.
02:50 PM zhivko: still I got this "joint 0 on limit switch error" after homing.
02:51 PM jthornton: is that axis tripping the limit switch after you home?
02:51 PM Tom_L: you are one step away from getting this. just find that step
02:51 PM zhivko: yes
02:51 PM zhivko: I used: watch -n 2 halcmd show pin axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
02:51 PM zhivko: to check that
02:51 PM jthornton: then your home offset is wrong
02:52 PM zhivko: gloops: i had it right first time than... -400 < 250 < 400
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Homing_And_Limit_Switch
02:52 PM zhivko: jthornton: how do you mean wrong ? I set it to 250... this is what position location is
02:53 PM zhivko: physically it is 250 mm from center
02:54 PM jthornton: you said the axis was tripping the limit switch after homing was done... so how could it be in the center?
02:54 PM gloops: you dont need to re-fit the switch to test it, just take it off the machine and click it when the axis gets to certain points
02:54 PM gloops: might be quicker to work out whats happening
02:55 PM zhivko: jthornton homing was never done - I am strugling with it
02:55 PM zhivko: Problem is that axis keep moving after it hits switch
02:56 PM gloops: i bet theres no signal
02:56 PM Tom_L: is it wired to the wrong signal? + where it should be - ?
02:56 PM jthornton: are you saying it just crashes to the end and never stops when you home that axis?
02:56 PM Tom_L: gloops he's getting a signal
02:56 PM zhivko: yes I am getting signal:
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: post the .hal and .ini
02:57 PM zhivko: :)
02:57 PM zhivko: again
02:57 PM gloops: so +10/0 fluctates when you click the switch
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: i didn't look through the backlog :)
02:57 PM zhivko: https://github.com/zhivko/PipeCutter/blob/master/src/main/resources/myini/machinekit/CRAMPS.ini
02:58 PM zhivko: Hope I dont spam :)
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: nah
02:59 PM gloops: scale -200
03:00 PM Tom_L: gotta run
03:00 PM gloops: not unusual way to flip direction, but has been considered in other parameters?
03:01 PM zhivko: https://youtu.be/-BAKEVgsQ6I
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: if the limit switch is being ignored then it's not connected properly in .hal, wrong polarity or set to be ignored
03:01 PM zhivko: I am using NC limit switch
03:01 PM jthornton: HOME_IS_SHARED = 0 should be 1 or true if you use the same switch for homing and limit
03:01 PM jthornton: nevermind, wrong thing
03:02 PM zhivko: I posted video where you can see how signal changes when I manually press limit switch
03:02 PM jthornton: does the axis move toward the switch then back off then move back to the switch?
03:03 PM zhivko: it moves toward switch
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: i have to go battle a similar issues but with some closed source control software
03:03 PM jthornton: latency on the Rpi4 is looking good
03:03 PM zhivko: switch click (it is touched) but axis continue to moves.
03:03 PM zhivko: switch clicks (it is touched) but axis continue to moves.
03:03 PM jthornton: sounds like it's not connected in hal
03:03 PM gregcnc: yes
03:04 PM zhivko: I need to abort with PowerOff button
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: he psoted his ,ini, are his three .hal files also posted?
03:04 PM zhivko: yes
03:05 PM zhivko: They are there
03:05 PM zhivko: In cramps.hal I use: net limit-x-max => axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: don't have time myself, due to reason above, good luck, happy debugging
03:06 PM gloops: net home-y <= parport.0.pin-12-in-not
03:06 PM gloops: net home-x <= parport.0.pin-11-in-not
03:06 PM gloops: net home-xo <= parport.0.pin-10-in-not
03:06 PM gloops: net home-z <= parport.0.pin-13-in-not
03:06 PM zhivko: Is axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in right pin to connect limit switch ?
03:06 PM gloops: from mine
03:06 PM gloops: chewck hal, make sure you got the right pins for the axis
03:06 PM zhivko: @gloops what is final pin name to connect signal P?
03:07 PM jthornton: you also have a debounce that may be blocking the input
03:07 PM zhivko: isnt axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in the right one ?
03:07 PM jthornton: it is for 2.7 and older versions of LinuxCNC
03:08 PM gloops: net home-z => joint.3.home-sw-in
03:09 PM gloops: ahh 2.7 yes
03:10 PM * jthornton goes to dig a drainage ditch
03:11 PM zhivko: DO I have righ polarity - If I press switch it changes from FALSE to TRUE
03:12 PM gregcnc: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/ini-homing.html#_home_is_shared
03:13 PM zhivko: gregcnc: I have mutiple pins available
03:13 PM zhivko: gregcnc: and also connected.... This allows to home all axes at sasme time - I would like to keep it like this
03:19 PM gregcnc: so is this actually running in linuxcnc now or machine kit?
03:21 PM gregcnc: try uncomment this line in hal #net limit-x-min => axis.0.home-sw-in
03:28 PM gloops: A limit switch may be normally open (NO) or normally closed (NC) in its normal resting position. A NO device, when actuated, switches to close (or "make") the circuit, whereas an NC switch would open and break the circuit when actuated.
03:28 PM gloops: you know about that though
03:35 PM _unreal_: sweet my vice showed up
03:43 PM zhivko: gregcnc Machinekit
03:43 PM zhivko: gloops: yes
03:43 PM zhivko: gregcnc: is it not right line ?
03:43 PM zhivko: why uncommenting ?
03:44 PM gregcnc: you need home signal if you want to home. commented out it is not used
03:45 PM zhivko: I know...
03:45 PM zhivko: But I have it uncommented:
03:45 PM zhivko: https://github.com/zhivko/PipeCutter/blob/master/src/main/resources/myini/machinekit/CRAMPS.hal#L341
03:45 PM zhivko: so it should be used - no ?
03:45 PM zhivko: you see it is not commented...
03:45 PM zhivko: ?
03:45 PM gregcnc: line 339
03:45 PM _unreal_: ok testing an other etching
03:45 PM _unreal_: with my laser etcher
03:47 PM _unreal_: man these laser protection goggles are odd
03:48 PM zhivko: gregcnc but I dont use xmin switch
03:48 PM zhivko: You mean I should uncomment it anyway ?
03:48 PM gregcnc: OK then make it max, whatever to make teh signal work
03:48 PM _unreal_: zhivko, you have 2 options for limits.
03:48 PM gregcnc: you have to edit thing to amtch you configuration
03:49 PM zhivko: I only use on xmax home limit... physically connected is only one
03:49 PM zhivko: I dont have xmin in place... now I dont know why I should provide xmin signal because I dont use it... is it required by linuxcnc ?
03:50 PM _unreal_: ether you have a + and - limit so the machine knows its inbetween the MAX and min travel area. or you have a single limit split between + and - and set it in software as a single. but a single means that you CANT back off of the limit when you hit a limit unless your homing
03:50 PM zhivko: I mean - they should always be two of them for each axis or what ?
03:50 PM _unreal_: if your using a single limit switch paralleled between + and -
03:50 PM jthornton: axis.N.home−sw−in IN BIT Should be driven TRUE if the home switch for this joint is closed
03:50 PM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/axis.9.html
03:51 PM _unreal_: ! FINALLY I think I got my laser etcher working with out screwing up images
03:52 PM _unreal_: the software is STUPID picky about the image attributes
03:55 PM zhivko: Does homing procedure uses bothi pins: axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in and axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in - and cannot work if only one is provided ?
03:55 PM zhivko: Where can I check this? Where is homing procedure code ?
03:56 PM gregcnc: smashes head to wall, I'm out
03:57 PM _unreal_: zhivko, I'm going to describe it one last time
03:59 PM _unreal_: you have clearly stated that your controller has + and - limit switch imputs.That means that YES you should use both + and minus. chances are you could use a SINGLE one but you MUST parallel a single one for the + and - sides of the machines limits. if you use both the + and - INPUTS that your controller has life is going to be easier.
04:00 PM gregcnc: change 339 to net limit-x-max => axis.0.home-sw-in
04:00 PM _unreal_: paralleling a single limit is typically for parallel port control because of the lack of I/O's if only using a single parallel port.
04:01 PM zhivko: will try this - thanks!
04:02 PM _unreal_: or for machines that are setup with a mono limit switch per axis meaning one switch per axis paralleled. and the signal is ether high or low when its in the safe or working zone. and low or high when at its limit.
04:02 PM _unreal_: and I'm done
04:02 PM _unreal_: !!!!! YES its working. I'm making straight etched images
04:02 PM _unreal_: FINALLY
04:03 PM _unreal_: windows paint 8bit monochrome is the only thing that seems to work
04:03 PM _unreal_: FINALLY
04:04 PM _unreal_: laser etcher for PCB's
04:04 PM _unreal_: hum
04:04 PM * _unreal_ ponders
04:18 PM zhivko: I uncomented x_min home switch - but it doesnt help
04:18 PM zhivko: Same problem...
04:18 PM zhivko: X axis passes over switch and keeps going further
04:19 PM zhivko: than it gives: joint 0 on limit switch error
04:24 PM zhivko: ugh... checking: https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/src/emc/motion/homing.c
04:26 PM jthornton: if your not using the Axis gui then run halmeter to watch the home-sw-in pin
04:39 PM Deejay: gn8
04:44 PM Tom_L: so did he ever get his limits working?
04:50 PM zhivko: no,
04:50 PM zhivko: but I have additional info
04:50 PM zhivko: Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/78aa4fe2eedfe418ffc25bb923544fae/pasted.txt
04:51 PM zhivko: I also tried with HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = NO in my ini, but then I get: "hit limit in home state 5", and "joint 0 on limit switch error"
04:52 PM zhivko: since I have multiple pins for home switches, i think I can use: HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = NO
04:52 PM Tom_L: i only use 1 switch on my Z
04:52 PM Tom_L: so you can set it up with one pin
04:52 PM Tom_L: and i use a soft limit on the other end
04:55 PM zhivko: Id should also do latched move and move to 0, but it reports error now: 23:39:18 MT_EMC_OPERATOR_ERROR
04:56 PM zhivko: https://github.com/jadonk/machinekit/blob/master/src/emc/motion/homing.c#L80
04:56 PM zhivko: read comments...
05:01 PM zhivko: I think I am missing "limit override" functionality in my SW, maybe homing should be done in a mode where home limit switch error doesn't interrupt homing procedure
05:27 PM * jthornton has no clue what you said and has never needed to add a limit override in order to home an axis
05:28 PM Tom_L: he's modifying the source for his app i think
05:28 PM jthornton: if the axis does not stop when it hits the home/limit switch then you have to fix that issue first
05:28 PM Tom_L: not sure why...
05:28 PM jthornton: ah good luck then and stop bothering us with modified sources lol
05:30 PM XXCoder: why do you need to bypass limits?
05:35 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I'm rather certian zhivko is getting enjoyment over suggesting going against what is considered safe and logic friendly and trying to annoy everyone in the channel
05:35 PM zhivko: sorry guys... will not bother anymore thanks for suggestions!
05:35 PM Kevin`: I think he's messing with code and config at the same time and should be instead starting from some basic working state
05:37 PM _unreal_: interesting... call it for what it is and he leaves immediately
05:45 PM Tom_L: how rude
05:47 PM Tom_L: i bet he wasn't getting help from the machinekit bunch so he came here
05:47 PM XXCoder: from what i see hes doing something dangerous
05:47 PM Tom_L: just like the ardweenie bunch does
05:47 PM XXCoder: hope he retires with all fingers intact
05:47 PM Tom_L: someone here set their house on fire so... meh
05:49 PM Tom_L: his machine looked rather interesting for a homebuilt thing
05:50 PM Tom_L: seemed to have skills or i wouldn't have bothered. unlike alot of ardweenie dweebs we get
05:52 PM jthornton: lol
05:54 PM XXCoder: any picture link? cant find it
05:56 PM Tom_L: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPCAliMonuSfJuYabOkg5gb4yTJqizhB37ni6hZE9YiOzbg7Q29XHiIrMiPXTBvFg?key=S0g2aXE2LVc2WXZ3S1dpNm9lMUtfMWgxZDZCM0ZR
05:56 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn0LQK8BILM
05:57 PM jthornton: looks like a tube plasma cutter
05:57 PM Tom_L: yup
05:57 PM jthornton: wonder why he is trying to run machinekit on that???
05:58 PM Tom_L: maybe he made a bad choice in ignorance?
05:58 PM Tom_L: i mean.... it could have been mach3
05:58 PM jthornton: could be
05:58 PM Tom_L: didn't ask about his hardware
05:58 PM Tom_L: dunno what he was running it on except gmocappy was the interface
05:58 PM jthornton: need to install a file manager on the RPi4 so I can show off the latency histogram...
05:59 PM XXCoder: interesting
05:59 PM Tom_L: the horizontal slide was his X
05:59 PM Tom_L: Y was the tube and Z is obvious
06:01 PM Tom_L: ok that explains it.
06:01 PM Tom_L: he's using a beaglebone black
06:02 PM Tom_L: you just didn't dig deep enough
06:02 PM XXCoder: isnt that dont have linuxcnc compitability yet
06:02 PM Tom_L: machinekit
06:02 PM jthornton: seems a poor choice for a plasma cutter but maybe that's all he has
06:02 PM Tom_L: true but it explains more why he used machinekit
06:03 PM roycroft: i have 24 nice wooden drawer pulls
06:03 PM roycroft: it took me about four hours to make them, but some of that time was spent finishing up the jigs and tuning up my bandsaw
06:03 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoq8KcUa9Lw
06:03 PM Tom_L: his following video
06:07 PM CaptHindsight: well machinekit is more-better since it's newerer
06:07 PM _unreal_: roycroft, I have a delta 3 wheel mini band saw
06:07 PM jthornton: more better than what?
06:07 PM _unreal_: and a nice BIG ass 96" band saw
06:07 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC will be better once it works well on the Rpi4
06:07 PM jthornton: it does work well on the RPi4...
06:08 PM CaptHindsight: jthornton: to most maker types under 30 years of age, newer anything is better
06:08 PM _unreal_: jthornton, are you saying CaptHindsight doesnt work well on the rpi4?
06:08 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight and you don't believe that!?!?!
06:09 PM jthornton: could be dunno, might be personality conflict between them
06:09 PM CaptHindsight: the pi4 is a partly working toy board
06:09 PM _unreal_: loving this. I just got my second LCD mounted to my shit desk
06:09 PM CaptHindsight: it needs some extras and probably another rev of silicon
06:09 PM _unreal_: on one of those multi swing arms. now I can pull the second monitor out in front of the other monitor. so I can use my desktop computer
06:10 PM CaptHindsight: not anything I'd want to warranty to a customer
06:10 PM _unreal_: will be nice to have one dedicated to all the windows software and one as a GOOD linux system
06:11 PM Tom_L: _unreal_ you should have 3 or 4 of each
06:13 PM _unreal_: OMG I smell so bleeping pretty
06:13 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC forums vs rpi or nanodlp, printrun, grbl etc
06:13 PM _unreal_: my daughter came in saying that her detangler wasnt working just spitting.
06:13 PM Tom_L: i'm glad i have boys
06:13 PM CaptHindsight: most posts are actually clear and coherent vs every possible conflicting answer
06:13 PM _unreal_: though she showed me th other bottle after I tried cleaning it. it was missing the misting tip
06:14 PM _unreal_: though=then
06:14 PM CaptHindsight: if you ask about some input needing to be High or Low, you get High, Low, highlow and lowhigh as answers, possibly even high and low at the same time
06:14 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight sounds like #reprap
06:15 PM _unreal_: ? what to manly to be a makeup ginipig
06:15 PM * _unreal_ batts eyes
06:15 PM Tom_L: no, just all the whining
06:15 PM _unreal_: ?
06:15 PM _unreal_: oh I beat that out of her young
06:17 PM CaptHindsight: I don't think that they guy with the plasma cutter first language is English
06:17 PM CaptHindsight: so that makes it tougher to help
06:18 PM Tom_L: yeah
06:18 PM jthornton: yep
06:20 PM Tom_L: Machinekit & beagle bone black controlling 4 axis CNC machine wih 4 closed loop stepper motors, leadshine closed loop hybrid servo
06:20 PM Tom_L: Slovenia
06:23 PM CaptHindsight: could be worse, I'm working temporarily with a closed source app where Ive had to reverse the stepper motor wires to get the app to work since they didn't offer a config for when your Z is reversed
06:24 PM CaptHindsight: sure they allow all sorts of G-code to be entered into the operation but it inherently thinks that your Z only works one way
06:24 PM Tom_L: he's got 2 rotary axis drives synched for the Y rollers
06:24 PM Tom_L: you can see that in his 2nd video
06:25 PM CaptHindsight: the time to ask HOW is before you start the parts collection
06:25 PM CaptHindsight: not after it doesn't work as planned
06:25 PM Tom_L: that's the engineer in you
06:26 PM CaptHindsight: but that is how you learn
06:27 PM Tom_L: he's using a rack for his Y drive
06:28 PM Tom_L: from what i see in the video, he didn't just scribble it out on a napkin over lunch
06:29 PM CaptHindsight: he's almost there
06:29 PM Tom_L: i know
06:29 PM Tom_L: and i feel confident he'll figure it out
06:30 PM CaptHindsight: people make assumptions about software
06:30 PM CaptHindsight: then you see how it really works
06:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/Aoq8KcUa9Lw?t=177 gears on the backside, are those off the shelf?
06:33 PM CaptHindsight: looks like he cut a plate
06:34 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/Aoq8KcUa9Lw?t=204 another closer up of the gear
06:46 PM jthornton: https://imagebin.ca/v/4ryyzSmtFinK
06:51 PM Tom_L: no load?
06:51 PM jthornton: na
06:51 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight i wonder if he made the gear
06:51 PM Tom_L: the round ones
06:53 PM Tom_L: ok who here in larger towns has those crazy scooters you can rent and ride right out in traffic?
06:53 PM Tom_L: https://www.spin.app/
06:54 PM Tom_L: one vendor
06:54 PM Tom_L: those darn things are all over the place here now
06:54 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: yep hehi remember how I thouht how cnc works
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: waiting to see what they do over the winter
06:57 PM Tom_L: my guess is they pull em
06:58 PM CaptHindsight: recover as many as possible before the first snow or just distribute new ones in the spring
06:59 PM CaptHindsight: jthornton: are you trying to get a combo together of the rpi4 and the mesa pi IO boards?
07:00 PM CaptHindsight: working turn key combo preloaded with LCNC?
07:02 PM CaptHindsight: did peter make some easy to work with heat sink for the IO boards?
07:05 PM CaptHindsight: http://mesanet.com/graphics/parallel/7c81colo.png
07:05 PM CaptHindsight: http://mesanet.com/graphics/parallel/7c80colo.png
07:07 PM CaptHindsight: so the rpi's don't physically plug in
07:07 PM CaptHindsight: you run cables from board to rpi
07:10 PM pcw_home: Yeah, I wanted the RPI right side up
07:11 PM pcw_home: heat sink up...
07:12 PM CaptHindsight: heh, so they don't make a U shaped header? :)
07:13 PM CaptHindsight: if you have the space maybe some right angle Female to Female
07:13 PM pcw_home: No but the RPI geniuses cleverly put one of the mounting holes in the way of a IDC connector
07:14 PM jthornton: lol
07:14 PM pcw_home: (I guess I cant complain, the first RPI didn't even have mounting holes...)
07:14 PM jthornton: CaptHindsight, no for the ethernet cards but I'd like to try one of the rpi cards
07:15 PM pcw_home: I think to use standard IDC I need to mill a flat on one side of the board-board spacer
07:17 PM pcw_home: JT I'll include a 7C81 on your next order, I have the SPI driver patched so it recognizes the card and I incorporated that forum guy's RPI4 patches
07:17 PM jthornton: cool, thanks
07:19 PM pcw_home: 7C80 needs a new module supported in LinuxCNC, I'm slowly working on it, I did add 7I94 support and offset mode PWM so I'm slowly learning how the driver works
07:20 PM jthornton: did you see the mesaflash man page?
07:20 PM pcw_home: (not a C programmer but can copy/paste with the best of 'em)
07:21 PM pcw_home: Yes I see a few mistakes (I think they are also mistakes in the --help)
07:21 PM jthornton: I can barely program in C but I did a astral app in C not to long ago
07:21 PM jthornton: ah ok, yea I copied help
07:22 PM pcw_home: Should I fix what I can and push?
07:22 PM jthornton: yep
07:22 PM pcw_home: OK i think I tried and got some error with urls
07:23 PM jthornton: hmm, did you change branches to man-page?
07:23 PM jthornton: are you using git from the command line or something else?
07:24 PM pcw_home: command line
07:24 PM jthornton: I use GitKraken
07:24 PM jthornton: and have use git gui in the past
07:24 PM jthornton: from the command line git pull --rebase
07:24 PM jthornton: git push
07:24 PM jthornton: should do it
07:25 PM Tom_L: pcw_home i thought that's how c programmers got to be c programmers :D
07:25 PM pcw_home: I will try that, but now Katherine is paging me...
07:25 PM jthornton: ok, gotta see what the boss wants
07:25 PM pcw_home: Yep...
07:26 PM pcw_home: Tom_L well works for me, there are enough examples in the code for almost any use...
07:26 PM pcw_home: bby duty calls...
07:26 PM Tom_L: later
07:26 PM jthornton: ok
07:27 PM Tom_L: i learned asm from peter norton etc
07:27 PM Tom_L: what little i remember now
07:27 PM jthornton: I have his book...
07:27 PM Tom_L: same
07:28 PM Tom_L: and a couple other 'cook books'
07:28 PM Tom_L: i got one that stuffs the keyboard i still use
07:28 PM Tom_L: use it with quicken to 'automate' transactions
07:29 PM jthornton: nice
07:29 PM Tom_L: i write a file out from my business program and run that to import payroll, bank deposits etc
07:31 PM * jthornton wanders upstairs to relax for the evening
07:31 PM Tom_L: neighbor's chicken has been jumping the fence last few days
07:31 PM Tom_L: hasn't figured out how to get back yet
07:43 PM CaptHindsight: rock64 vs Rpi4
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: i guess if there is enough demand for something that the rpi4 offers that is not in the rock64...
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: then one could order a ton of rpi4's just for the SOC
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: unsolder, reball and make a better board
08:02 PM _unreal_: I have an on going offer for the tinkerboard
08:02 PM _unreal_: any one in the US I'll make them one of my FRP shells to house an SOC computer
08:03 PM _unreal_: If they can write a working HAL file(s) to get the GPIO working using the tinkerboard and linuxcnc
08:03 PM _unreal_: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNjUL9VJW4BIh58ZOHM6jOWS10l43lfzL_nr7FMD-YXm_o6hG63BfTN2Rv6ch6C_Q?key=OVV0UTBXUmF0NXNSR2NKVzdoaFhxQzVTbDI5V3JB
08:03 PM _unreal_: this is the shell I'm talkign about
11:21 PM _unreal_: So the good news My desktop is now working and my second monitor is setup. bad news my win10 install is totally farked and I dont know why
11:21 PM _unreal_: sigh kind of wishing I had gotten off my ass sooner over the weekend to get the wires hooked up etc...
11:21 PM _unreal_: was a total pain in the ass but I digress