#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 05 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:28 AM flyback is now known as hootie_blowfish
12:33 AM hootie_blowfish is now known as flyback
01:53 AM Deejay: moin
01:53 AM iderik: hi, i found an unused servo motor (synchronous AC, 400~V, integrated feedback encoder) by indramat/rexroth. the drivers/controllers costs around 2000$ on ebay
01:54 AM iderik: is there a cheaper alternative?
01:54 AM iderik: datasheet for the motor (page 51): http://www.magnaproducts.com/content/file/MKD_PR07.pdf
01:55 AM iderik: datasheet for one of several compatible drivers: http://boschrexroth.ch/country_units/america/united_states/sub_websites/brus_dcc/documentation_downloads/ProductDocumentation/CurrentProducts/Drives/HDS/Firmware/SSE/SSE01/SSE01_FKB1.pdf
01:58 AM CaptHindsight: for a new motor and no drive? $2k?
02:00 AM CaptHindsight: Fig. 7-3: Technical data MKD041B-144 is on the bottom of page 51
02:01 AM CaptHindsight: Rated voltage UN V 115 170
02:04 AM CaptHindsight: iderik: you want a ~500W AC servo with 6k rpm top speed?
02:08 AM iderik: CaptHindsight: oh, sorry. i meant that ive found it in the trash, so i have the motor here next to me irl
02:10 AM Elmo40: kinda useless without the drive.
02:10 AM iderik: also found loads of linear rails and similar, so i though it could become a cnc in the future. but as you might notice, im quite a novice at this
02:10 AM CaptHindsight: Bosch is not known for their low prices
02:11 AM Elmo40: indeed they are not.
02:11 AM iderik: it seems all the stuff in the trash has been used as show-offs for customers on a retailer for bosch reroth
02:11 AM Elmo40: over priced, to say the least. i've seen customers with their hydraulic pumps and they don't seem to last any longer than others.
02:11 AM iderik: maybe i should go back and look for somekind of driver
02:11 AM Elmo40: demo units?
02:12 AM Elmo40: do it quickly. bins usually get dumped quickly
02:13 AM Elmo40: anyone use those TL Smoothers to quiet down their steppers?
02:13 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALLEN-BRADLEY-AC-SERVO-MOTOR-VPL-B0631U-PK14AA-VPL-B0631U-PK14AA/253089067997 similar motor for $350
02:13 AM CaptHindsight: New – Open box
02:13 AM CaptHindsight: “INSTALLED - NEVER POWERED UP”
02:14 AM CaptHindsight: easier to connect and tune with the drive, but not too difficult
02:15 AM iderik: im quite cheap, thats why ive been digging thru their trash :P
02:15 AM CaptHindsight: with other drives
02:17 AM iderik: pre-owned mkd041 sells for 500$ on ebay, maybe i will sell it instead and buy multiple smaller steppers for my linear stuff
05:06 AM Tom_L: morning
05:06 AM XXCoder: morning
05:14 AM Tom_L: you get lcnc working on mint?
05:15 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:15 AM XXCoder: only error on exit, and its known issue, reported 11 days agoi
05:15 AM XXCoder: no ugly workaround yay!
05:16 AM XXCoder: I also need to fix 2axis-tutorial, it dont work as is. have to fix tool mode
05:16 AM XXCoder: *3
05:17 AM Tom_L: well now you got a project
05:17 AM XXCoder: i already fixed it, just need to fix comments also
05:38 AM jthornton: morning
05:38 AM XXCoder: yo
07:26 AM Loetmichel: hmm, $me is musing if its possible to make a bandsaw blade with tungsten carbide teeth... just watched a video where someone milled thru some old logs with steel and gravel in them
07:27 AM Tom_L: likely just chip the carbide
07:29 AM Loetmichel: they would also last longer than the steel blades in normal wood
07:29 AM Loetmichel: and IIRC those sawmill blades are NOT cheap
07:29 AM Loetmichel: some of the channels i watch change the blades every 2 logs (and bring them to resharpen=
07:29 AM Loetmichel: )
07:29 AM Loetmichel: that cant be cheap either
07:31 AM * Tom_L wonders if they would stay cemented with the constant blade flex
07:31 AM XXCoder: i remember one yt showing automated resharper. interesting
07:32 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: its a matter of teeth form i think
07:32 AM Loetmichel: the "holding" part i mean
07:33 AM Loetmichel: so that the tooth iself doesent flex while the "steel band" its part of does
08:50 AM gregcnc: you can buy carbide tooth bands saw blades
08:53 AM Loetmichel: "woodmizer" sized?
08:54 AM gregcnc: should i check google or do you want to do it?
08:57 AM Loetmichel: and if so: why dont they get used? do they have drawbacks that i am unaware of?
08:57 AM Loetmichel: i mean: changing the blade every 2 or three logs cant be that efficient and cheap, or is it?
09:34 AM beachbumpete1: Well Shit.. After quite a few years of running perfectly my Cincinatti Arrow 500 retrofit failed me this past week.
09:35 AM beachbumpete1: my Z axis drive would not lock down
09:36 AM beachbumpete1: so after playing with it and talking to the folks at Machmotion about the problem I determined that the Z drive failed
09:36 AM beachbumpete1: so I ordered a new one to the tune of almost $800.00 OUCH
09:37 AM beachbumpete1: when I initially ordered all the electronics I got a cable that allowed you to plug in your laptop to the drive and upload/download to it
09:37 AM beachbumpete1: Now that I received the new drive and went to install it I cannot seem to find that damn cable
09:38 AM beachbumpete1: so last night I tried to just go thru the menus and write down ALL of the settings in the drives MANY locations and then installed the new drive and tried to manually input all of them
09:38 AM beachbumpete1: after I got them all installed I fired it up and the drive DOES lock down but it does not seem to want to move the millhead
09:38 AM beachbumpete1: I get a following error after trying to home the machine.
09:39 AM beachbumpete1: This sucks because I was behind already trying to troubleshoot the machine and get everything sorted
09:39 AM beachbumpete1: now I am REALLY behind and dont know why the machine is not working
09:40 AM beachbumpete1: so I get to go home today and both try to find that cable as well as reinstall the bad drive and power it up to check all the settings AGAIN.
09:49 AM Connor: beachbumpete1: Got that 13x40 lathe.
09:50 AM Connor: Ouch.. Dang, sorry about the Arrow 500. Wonder what the deal is.
09:52 AM gregcnc: what kind fo drive is that?
09:54 AM Connor: Also, what was the error ??
10:09 AM jym: Morning folks
10:17 AM beachbumpete1: I have Teco servo drives on it
10:17 AM beachbumpete1: its the TSTA-30 models
10:17 AM beachbumpete1: the Z has the motor with built in brake and seperate 24v pps
10:18 AM beachbumpete1: glad you got a nice lathe Connor.
10:18 AM Connor: Not mine personally.. For the Maker Space.. But, it's part mine. :)
10:18 AM beachbumpete1: I cannot remember the error number but it sure would not lock down
10:18 AM beachbumpete1: ah cool
10:18 AM Connor: lock down, as in the brake wouldn't engage ?
10:18 AM beachbumpete1: no as in the servo drive wont take control of the motor
10:19 AM skunkworks: rotar lock I assume.. (closed loop)
10:19 AM beachbumpete1: I am not sure if it is a brake problem
10:19 AM gregcnc: measure current
10:19 AM beachbumpete1: now with the new drive it locks down but it does not move and I think I hear the brake click
10:19 AM beachbumpete1: yeah this is all closed loop
10:21 AM Connor: Yea, that's odd.
10:22 AM gregcnc: ooh escargot is getting a cummins
10:25 AM skunkworks: I didn't catch why they didn't keep the original?
10:26 AM gregcnc: sounded like it was a dog
10:27 AM Connor: Who is escargot?
10:27 AM gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSP6l8JIIB8
10:31 AM Loetmichel: skunkworks: too heavy for their drivers license
10:32 AM Loetmichel: and the cummins is 200 pounds (or even kg?) ligher AND smaller AND more fuel efficient AND needs less space
10:32 AM Loetmichel: and has more power ;)
10:33 AM Loetmichel: funny how you throw one word in the CNC channel and half of the occupants know that we are talking of bad obsession motorsport ;)
10:39 AM gregcnc: even proper use of cheap calipers as scribes
11:12 AM JT-Shop: hmm the builders showed up this morning quite unexpected... now I have to get all the crap out of their way before they come back
11:18 AM Connor: When where they suppose to be there JT-Shop?
11:48 AM JT-Shop: this month sometime
12:21 PM skunkworks: Loetmichel: yes :)
12:22 PM D4mned: hello
12:23 PM D4mned: im making a tiny plotter using cnc shield v3 with 2 dvd rom steppers and a servo
12:23 PM D4mned: i cant seem to get the servo working with grbl
12:23 PM D4mned: i tried different versions also ones with servo support
12:24 PM D4mned: i cant seem to manage to get it to work
12:24 PM D4mned: can anyone help ?
12:43 PM Tom_L: this really isn't a grbl channel
12:46 PM * JT-Shop doesn't speak in grbl...
01:23 PM JT-Shop: new spam emails "Delivery notification for John" lol they sure are stupid!
01:54 PM FinboySlick: JT-Shop: You should answer and waste their time, like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QdPW8JrYzQ
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: what did you say?
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: your post was garbled here, please repeat that
02:34 PM gregcnc: everyone must be watching their stocks today
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: gag, China devalues its currency
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: take that Mr. Orange Smarty Pants!
02:38 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Do you really want that link back or am I missing the joke? I feel almost German.
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: uh huh, please say that again, I'm not sure if I read you correctly :)
02:39 PM FinboySlick: OK, I'm not German anymore, all is right.
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: I ordered my Chinese parts last night on ebay, now my $3 purchase would cost me something like $3.05
02:40 PM gregcnc: free shipping?
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: of course
04:01 PM Deejay: gn8
07:12 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:55 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6zM3ok8Dz8 Solid Granite Base for the Proxxon PD 250/e Lathe
09:00 PM Tom_L: some precision drilling there
09:03 PM Tom_L: i would never try drilling something like that: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Drillpress.jpg
09:05 PM RyanS: is this correct (i'm adding a VFD to a 3 phase motor to run on 1p, 230V)? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WIxdLBGhun0GYFHGxXEED1_nrbuklKOv/view?usp=sharing
09:07 PM Tom_L: https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-connect-a-delta-wye-motor
09:08 PM Tom_L: not sure about switching to single phase
09:09 PM RyanS: the VFD does that bit
09:10 PM Tom_L: the diagram shows the difference between delta and wye then
09:10 PM Tom_L: if you have doubts, verify it elsewhere as well
09:12 PM RyanS: I have seen some motors online that have 9 terminal screws, I guess that's not for a star- delta motor ?
09:12 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure
09:13 PM Tom_L: Three-phase motors with 9 leads are nearly always dual-voltage motors.
09:13 PM Tom_L: says google
09:15 PM Tom_L: the convention is RST for supply, UVW for output to motor. Motor leads may be labeled XYZ as well. There are many such conventions, In the US, the past 'standard' was L1/L2/L3 for incoming, T1/T2/T3 for outgoing and motors.
09:17 PM RyanS: this is a connection diagram for ABB (ASEA) motors https://search-ext.abb.com/library/Download.aspx?DocumentID=9AKK105408A2971&LanguageCode=en&DocumentPartId=&Action=Launch
09:20 PM Tom_L: same thing really
09:20 PM Tom_L: left is wye right is delta
09:21 PM Tom_L: and if i remember right, switch any 2 motor wires to reverse direction
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: any 2 supply wires
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: keep the matched pairs of wires together on multi voltage motors
09:38 PM roycroft: correct
09:38 PM roycroft: i don't even bother trying to connect the supply wires in any particular order
09:39 PM roycroft: just connect them all, turn on the motor, and if it goes the wrong way, swap two of them
09:43 PM KimK: RyanS: Running a VFD on single-phase is fine, but be sure to consult the drive manual, doing that usually cuts the drive's horsepower rating by at least 25%, sometimes as much as 60%. The manual will have the details.
10:14 PM _unreal_: So I'm looking at getting a quadcopter brushless motor setup in the vacuum I have
10:14 PM _unreal_: I picked up one of those 12v car vacuums. its very quiet compaired at any AC one yet its more then powerful enough to pick up chips and dust
10:15 PM roycroft: yes, i use larger vfds than the rated output power because i only have single phase mains
10:15 PM roycroft: i've done ok with 5hp vfds for 3hp motors
10:15 PM roycroft: i've not smoked one yet :)
10:15 PM * roycroft is suddenly afraid to turn one of them on now, having just said that
10:31 PM Rab: _unreal_, so the plan is to upgrade the car vac with a BLDC? Or...?
10:34 PM _unreal_: Rab, ya...
10:35 PM _unreal_: just use an ESC controller and a motor. I can then control the speed
10:35 PM _unreal_: the vac its self is rather quiet as far as vacuums go
11:10 PM Connor: Hey guys, what sort of paint is used to repaint machines like lathes and mills? Including stands and chip trays? (and be able to get it mixed with specific colors)
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: automotive enamels, not 2 part systems
11:14 PM Connor: not 2 part systems?
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: tractor and farm implement paints, not 2K urethanes or epoxies
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: not if you are asking
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: too toxic for home use
11:15 PM Connor: Oh. Yea.. I used garage floor paint on a workbench.. it's not lasted very well.
11:15 PM Connor: Can those be matched? and if so by whom?
11:16 PM CaptHindsight: automotive paint suppliers
11:16 PM CaptHindsight: plenty online if there is not one near you
11:17 PM Connor: Spray? Roll? Brush? (Prefer Brush and Roll)
11:17 PM CaptHindsight: rustoleum has a big line
11:18 PM CaptHindsight: if you can use a standard color then they match spray cans with quarts,gallons and pails
11:18 PM roycroft: automotive enamels are not good for machinery
11:18 PM roycroft: i use industrial paint that is designed for machinery
11:19 PM CaptHindsight: alsdo https://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-26045%3Aproduct-6799
11:19 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: you likely prepped poorly
11:21 PM CaptHindsight: if you really want tough I can mix in a component they use for bridges and exterior steel that lasts for 50+ years
11:21 PM roycroft: but that's using industrial paints, not automotive paints
11:22 PM roycroft: the problem i've had with automotive paints is that in a chip tray the paint scratches after prolonged exposure to way/cutting oil and swarf
11:22 PM roycroft: they're just not tough enough
11:22 PM roycroft: even with hardeners
11:23 PM roycroft: i could get a clear coat that is made for school buses and that would probably work ok
11:23 PM roycroft: but i don't like having to shoot clear on machinery
11:23 PM CaptHindsight: you guys should just stay away from anything 2-part isocyanate based
11:24 PM roycroft: yeah, i don't use that stuff at all any more
11:24 PM roycroft: 40 years ago i used to shoot bicycle frames with imron
11:24 PM roycroft: but i stay far far away from that stuff now
11:24 PM roycroft: a standard respirator is not safe with it
11:25 PM roycroft: one really needs a good fresh air respirator
11:25 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, one of the early ones
11:25 PM CaptHindsight: it reacts with water so it's not just a respirator you need ...
11:25 PM CaptHindsight: you have to cover your eyes and any area that produces sweat
11:26 PM roycroft: i'm trying to find the data sheets on the stuff i've been using lately
11:26 PM roycroft: well a fresh air respirator is generally a full-face one
11:26 PM roycroft: so that + a full body suit + gloves and booties should do
11:26 PM roycroft: basically a space suit :)
11:27 PM Connor: Dang.. this turned into a complicated question :/
11:28 PM roycroft: all good questions are, aren't they?
11:28 PM roycroft: i can go look at some paint cans tomorrow
11:28 PM roycroft: if i can't find the data sheets tonight
11:28 PM roycroft: i used to use deltran dar, but that's an old school automotive polyurethane enamel
11:28 PM roycroft: and it works ok for most things
11:28 PM Connor: I'm looking for a nice white for the lathe... and a teal color that matches some rattle-can and water based paint I had mixed up.
11:29 PM roycroft: but it doesn't hold up on chip trays, even with double the normal amount of hardener
11:29 PM CaptHindsight: http://lumiflonusa.com/technical/the-benefits-of-feve-resins-fluoropolymer-based-over-pvdf-coatings/
11:29 PM roycroft: i can't remember what i'm using now, obviously
11:29 PM roycroft: which is why i'm trying to find data sheets
11:29 PM roycroft: i switched paint vendors a few years ago
11:29 PM roycroft: and they steered me into this industrial stuff
11:30 PM CaptHindsight: tough paint means not too hard with some flex
11:30 PM roycroft: yes
11:31 PM roycroft: if there is zero flex it will chip easily
11:31 PM roycroft: but if it's soft it will scratch easily
11:31 PM CaptHindsight: urethanes vary over a wide range
11:31 PM CaptHindsight: molecular weight and their structure
11:31 PM roycroft: the bottom line is this though:
11:31 PM roycroft: even when i find the data sheets for the stuff i'm using, if you don't have a vendor for that product locally it's useless
11:32 PM roycroft: you really need a good, local vendor for your paints
11:32 PM roycroft: especially if you want to do custom color matches
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: where are you located?
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: I formulate paints and coatings BTW
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: adhesive,resins etc
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: I was going to tell him to look for white and then he can add his own colorants
11:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/color/rgb-to-cmyk.html find your color
11:39 PM roycroft: but what is white?
11:39 PM roycroft: there are at least a half dozen categories of "white"
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: likely not that big a deal
11:40 PM roycroft: same with black, although the variations in black are greater in dyes than pigmented finishes
11:40 PM CaptHindsight: unless his teal is an off-white
11:40 PM roycroft: i'm pretty particular about that kind of stuff, capthindsight
11:40 PM roycroft: i spend far too much time getting the colors right on my projects
11:41 PM roycroft: and far too much money, as off-the-shelf products rarely give me the results that i want
11:41 PM CaptHindsight: color matching for me is pretty boring
11:41 PM CaptHindsight: much like machining
11:44 PM roycroft: color choosing not so boring :)
11:50 PM roycroft: well i still can't find the datasheets, which i know i scanned and stashed somewhere
11:51 PM roycroft: but i just went and looked at a can
11:51 PM roycroft: i'm using northstar 777, which is a polyurethane enamel
11:51 PM roycroft: for light industrial use
11:52 PM CaptHindsight: http://lusid.biz/index.php/ns-binders/item/259-777b
11:52 PM roycroft: it's cheaper than high end automotive paints, and more durable
11:52 PM roycroft: that's the stuff
11:54 PM CaptHindsight: http://lusid.biz/~lusidtech/index.php/products/northstar
11:57 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: the activator contains: 28182-81-2 poly(hexamethylene diisocyanate)
11:58 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0320.html
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: http://lusid.biz/~lusidtech/index.php/sds-tds/safety-data-sheets/func-download/270/chk,89da1979acf6a7305998c6dc2496e19e/no_html,1/
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: Trade name: H87 ACTIVATOR