#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 03 2019

01:47 AM Deejay: moin
01:54 AM _abc_: Is anyone using 3-phase motors as hybrid axis (leadscrew) drivers on a diy machine?
01:54 AM _abc_: I see these are not too pricey https://www.cloudraylaser.com/products/cloudray-leadshine-3-phase-3dm580-stepper-motor-driver-18-50vdc-1-0-8-0a
02:08 AM CaptHindsight: _abc_: most use bipolar stepper since they are readily available
02:10 AM CaptHindsight: I use lots of 3 phase AC servos
02:11 AM _abc_: How big? Rephrased: how small is the smallest you are using. And are you microstepping them?
02:16 AM gloops: not much point with my router re noise
02:16 AM gloops: the motor noise is drowned out as soon as the cutting starts
02:16 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.parkermotion.com/products/Rotary_Servo_Motors____30_32_80_567_29.html
02:16 AM _abc_: That's a big list. How small is the smallest you use in hp or W? If it's not a secret? Axis motor obviously.
02:16 AM CaptHindsight: depends on the application, from 100W and up
02:18 AM _abc_: ha diy motor erector kit. Some of these may be interesting to EV diyers imo https://www.parkermotion.com/products/Rotary_Servo_Motors__7057__30_32_80_567_29.html from your link before CaptHindsight
02:18 AM _abc_: CaptHindsight: never say "never"
02:20 AM CaptHindsight: hasta banana
02:20 AM _abc_: CaptHindsight: your smallest 100W 3ph steppers, are they sensorless open loop or closed/sensored?
02:21 AM CaptHindsight: servo not stepper
02:21 AM CaptHindsight: servo closed loop
02:21 AM _abc_: Ah.
02:21 AM CaptHindsight: don't use any 3-p steppers
02:21 AM _abc_: You don't? Because that is what I asked.
02:21 AM CaptHindsight: mostly bipolar from few W to 100's
02:24 AM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/vKyLIN6
02:24 AM CaptHindsight: brushless DC ^^ ~400W
02:26 AM _abc_: Do nobody using this? https://www.cunanplc.com/2015/01/10/3nd583-3-phase-cnc-microstepping-drive-stepper-driver-8-3a-50v-dc-leadshine/
02:26 AM CaptHindsight: https://ibin.co/4HCxDgSmsztG.jpg ~800W linear servos
02:26 AM _abc_: I'm interested in microstepping interpolation issues
02:27 AM CaptHindsight: with encodes?
02:27 AM _abc_: With open loop or "simple" 3ph phase sensing
02:28 AM CaptHindsight: rule if thumb is 4x more encoder counts than steps
02:28 AM _abc_: I just said no encoder
02:29 AM _abc_: What type of linear drive is your second pic? Leadscrews or real linear?
02:30 AM CaptHindsight: https://ab.rockwellautomation.com/Motion-Control/LDC-Series-and-LDL-Series-Linear-Motors
02:31 AM _abc_: I think the last and only time I saw something like that was in a Rexroth (Bosh) catalog.
02:31 AM * _abc_ moves at the bottom end of things, being in a low wages country
02:32 AM _abc_: CaptHindsight: your Z axis in the second machine pic is also linear? What type of compensation spring does the Z use in this case? Gas spring? Integrated in the motor?
02:34 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.parkermotion.com/products/Linear_Servo_Motors__5471__30_32_80_567_29.html
02:35 AM _abc_: Thanks for the infos CaptHindsight, I need to move on a bit now
02:36 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anorad-Linear-Servo-Motor-with-Magnet-Track-32-3-4/190563671091
02:36 AM _abc_: Yeah, thanks.
05:11 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: about 5 hours
05:12 AM Loetmichel: Elmo40: via the repetier server print server webinterface. they started within 5 seconds of each other
05:53 AM jthornton: morning
05:54 AM XXCoder: morning
06:32 AM Elmo40: 5 seconds is a long time. one might heat up faster and begin printing earlier
06:32 AM Elmo40: not all heat beds are identical
06:36 AM Loetmichel: Elmo40: yes, but i would have expected to have the second one have the bed sit at the same place every layer like the first one, even if they were not in sync, so there must be some "iterference" going on, as the position of the second printers bed varies greatly
06:44 AM Tom_L: morning
06:44 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
06:44 AM Loetmichel: (although its already 1:40 pm over here ;)
06:45 AM XXCoder: very morning here. 4 am
06:50 AM Elmo40: 07:47 here.
06:51 AM jthornton: 06:46 here
06:51 AM Elmo40: Central, eh? I'm in Ontario.
06:52 AM XXCoder: minutes should be all same its just clocks being off
06:52 AM XXCoder: well except for those weird areas where its only 30 min off
06:54 AM gloops: 12.43 going back to bed in a bit
06:55 AM gloops: got woke up at 4am then again at 5
06:57 AM Elmo40: looks like my laptop's clock hasn't been sync'd in a while and it is 2 minutes fast. odd.
06:58 AM Elmo40: Loetmichel, do you use the recirculating ball system or changed it to bushings or those igus bearings?
07:00 AM Loetmichel: the ender3pros are stock
07:00 AM Loetmichel: no changes other than mounting the two webcams are made
07:01 AM Loetmichel: enders use ball bearing weheels in the grooves of the aluminium extrusions though
07:01 AM Loetmichel: no shafts there to mount igus on
07:01 AM Loetmichel: or linear bearings
07:01 AM Elmo40: ah, right. extruded aluminum.
07:01 AM Loetmichel: you can actually see the wheels in the video
07:01 AM Loetmichel: on the x axis
07:02 AM Loetmichel: tight behind the print head
07:02 AM Elmo40: that is a so-so design in my eyes. those wheels are not hard and the play will increase.
07:02 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZae2e1knxA <- there you can see it better
07:02 AM Elmo40: they have cam'd bolts?
07:02 AM Loetmichel: those wheels are actually rubber and adjustable
07:03 AM Loetmichel: yes, they have adjusters
07:03 AM Elmo40: exactly. rubber. it will wear a groove.
07:03 AM Loetmichel: eventually
07:04 AM Loetmichel: can be compensated though
07:04 AM Loetmichel: and they are aviable as spares
07:04 AM Loetmichel: so no problem there
07:05 AM Loetmichel: its not like you have tons of side force on a 3dprinter
07:05 AM Elmo40: i'm building my next machine with extrusion and linear bearings. bolting the bed down to the frame, similar to deltas but i'll be setting it up as a cartesian or coreXY. unsure the exact details yet.
07:05 AM Loetmichel: for a CNC mill that setup would be no good indeed
07:06 AM Loetmichel: but i have seen it work
07:06 AM Elmo40: large, too. 1m x 2m bed
07:06 AM Elmo40: maybe 2m tall.
07:07 AM gloops: is this a router Elmo40?
07:07 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZae2e1knxA <- that machine from my ex boss uses the same technique
07:07 AM Loetmichel: but with steel rollers on round stock
07:07 AM Loetmichel: not rubber rollers
07:07 AM Loetmichel: and the V INwards, not outwards
07:07 AM Loetmichel: like V belt pulleys
07:08 AM gloops: oh, printers
07:08 AM Elmo40: i have 2.5m(8') pieces of 40mm(1.5") extrusion. This machine is going to be HEAVY!
07:08 AM Loetmichel: gloops: yes. emlo is complaining that the ender3s use rubber rollers as linear guides
07:09 AM Loetmichel: and i was just explaining that its ok for a printer and can even work for a CNC router if done right
07:09 AM gloops: i cant see them wearing too quick - no real resistance there
07:09 AM Elmo40: gloops, i might encorporate a tool changer. make it a 'universal' machine. i've seen a few companies do that already. add a laser to giggles. ;-)
07:09 AM Loetmichel: laser/plasma ideally needs a water "catch basin" underneath though
07:10 AM Loetmichel: milling/printing needs clamping/heatbed
07:10 AM Loetmichel: so making a "one machine fits all" isnt THAT easy
07:10 AM Elmo40: not a cutting laser. simply an engraver. maybe 5W.
07:11 AM Elmo40: 10W max
07:12 AM Loetmichel: ah, ok then
08:26 AM Elmo40: Loetmichel, all stock equipment? no 'upgrades' that can actually be downgrades since it takes forever to tune the machine afterwards.
08:32 AM Loetmichel: no upgrades
08:32 AM Loetmichel: not even a new firmware
08:33 AM XXCoder: upgrade by building new machine
08:33 AM XXCoder: once that new one is perfect, upgrade old one
08:33 AM XXCoder: goto 20
08:33 AM XXCoder: *10
09:14 AM perry_j1987: morning
10:24 AM Jymmm: morning perry_j1987
10:24 AM perry_j1987: hows it going
10:25 AM Jymmm: still asleep
12:23 PM andypugh: Tom_L: Not in Spain, LinuxCNC meet in Stuttgart now
01:33 PM t4nk_freenode is now known as t4nk-freenode
01:49 PM root-x is now known as NewNickname
01:49 PM NewNickname is now known as SkyWar
02:09 PM SkyWar: UPTIME: 3 days, 15 hours, 55 minutes
02:09 PM SkyWar: OS: 64 bit Windows 7 Professional (Version 6.1 Build 7601.24241) Service Pack 1, CPU: 4 x Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU 650 @ 3.20GHz @ 3192 MHz 512 KB Cache, MEM: 3767 MB, 55% (2035 MB) free, DISKS: total 551 GB - 483 GB free, GFX: Intel(R) HD Graphics 1760 MB, SCREEN: Monitor no PnP genérico, 1366 x 768 @ 32 bit, 60 Hz, AUDIO: Dispositivo de High Definition Audio, UPTIME: 3 d, 15 h, 55 m
02:10 PM SkyWar: my old friend 2 years running non stop
02:18 PM jdh: when you were trapped in a turkish prison and forced to use windows?
02:24 PM SkyWar: jdh i can use linux but here i have some payed softwares
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: I use Win7 for CAD, but that machine hasn't seen the Internet in 4+ years
02:24 PM SkyWar: payed buyed or licenced...
02:25 PM gregcnc: not getting away from winduhs for a decent CAD or CAM package
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: I hear 3D pass though works pretty well now
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: the next time I rebuild I'll probably go that direction and have multiple VM's on linux host for all the Winders CAD apps
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: it's take a week to reinstall everything
02:28 PM SkyWar: jeje. i use corel draw, for some years. I use for cut in a stepper plotter.
02:28 PM gregcnc: that's teh worst part
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: somebody downloaded a 100+GB compressed game
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: think it's >500GB installed
02:30 PM gregcnc: dang
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: racing Sim I think
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: we hooked it up to a high powered 4K projector
02:31 PM gregcnc: my wife can't take one picture on her phone. she takes 43 and keeps them all
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: the light in the rear view mirror are blinding when projected to only ~1m wide
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: so it's just like driving on the road
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: does the phone have a large SD card? :)
02:34 PM gregcnc: I only added a 16 or 32GB, but I have to find a compatible cam app that will save directly to the card.
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: Rpi 4 is out with 4K video but you end up having to build everything yourself or using Arch
02:37 PM gregcnc: this si a bit crazy https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3020823/chinese-tourists-injured-after-tsunami-pool-malfunctions-water
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: yeah saw that
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: or it was a military test on civilians
02:38 PM gregcnc: controls or drives failed?
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: somebody pressed the "do not press button"
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: was caused by a power cut that damaged electronic equipment
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: maybe they used Active low signals
02:40 PM gregcnc: seems like a runaway condition
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: they are still learning there
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: here it would be caused by knowing better but cutting some corner
02:43 PM gregcnc: I think I have the little mill sold. this guy is pretty serious, but I had two before
02:44 PM gregcnc: then, i'll have room for something else
02:44 PM jdh: what mill
02:45 PM gregcnc: Emco Mill 125
02:45 PM jdh: with the enclosure?
02:45 PM gregcnc: yes
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: The nearby Hooters and Red Lobster are also on lockdown
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/03/us/el-paso-shooting/index.html
02:49 PM gregcnc: wtf is wrong with people
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2019/07/31/asian-carp-shock-electric-fishing-orig-cl.cnn
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: good sized carp
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: i heard they have been found as near as 100 mi from lake michigan
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: game over if they reach here
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: “I have seen places where you get a flood and grass carp will mow down a line of vegetation, or you actually can see where they nibbled on the trees that have been flooded,”
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: tree eating fish
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: will try Rpi4 with a Mesa 7i92
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: somebody on the forums mentioned a SPI board with a microcontroller for soft stepping
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: heh pigpio, which i obviously first read a s pig pio vs pi gpio
03:26 PM jym: andypugh: I got something for you
03:26 PM jym: andypugh: https://i.imgur.com/6LHkqaJ.jpg
03:26 PM jym: andypugh: In Germany huh?
03:46 PM Deejay: gn8
04:22 PM sync: last thing I heard stuttgart was still in germany jym
04:23 PM jym: sync: ah ok
04:28 PM Elmo40: For you 3D printer people: New Cura 4.2.1 is out. I like the improvements. Hiding the Z-seam actually works now ;-)
04:31 PM Elmo40: problem now is a bug in octoprint. if you adjust the speed or extrusion (i really hate those tiny sliders... it should be a value entered style or up/down arrows) when you close the browser and reopen it magically returns to 100% in both.
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: Raspberry Pi 4 model B 4GB running linuxcnc Mesa 7i76E card via the RPI4's ethernet port. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlZiq8uCcpI
04:46 PM Elmo40: wow
04:47 PM jthornton: nice
04:51 PM Tom_L: no sound here, what's that grapic interface?
04:51 PM Elmo40: lathe macro
04:51 PM Elmo40: ?
04:52 PM Elmo40: i still think they should have went with a barrel power supply over the flimsy usb one.
04:52 PM Elmo40: like these guys:
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: we will work on getting the latest 3D drivers going on the pi4 and build a Gentoo ISO
04:52 PM Elmo40: https://store.pine64.org/?product=rock64-media-board-computer
04:53 PM CaptHindsight: maybe someone else can build debs for it
04:53 PM CaptHindsight: Elmo40: RPi always cheaps out
04:53 PM CaptHindsight: they have a USB power bug as well
04:54 PM Elmo40: and it runs hotter than the 3
04:54 PM CaptHindsight: the usual maker folks will not use the Mesa cards
04:54 PM Elmo40: and something about hardware acceleration is turned off. some kind of bug?
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: they will cheap out and use some crappy micro (likely not even an STM32) for software stepping
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: pigpio
04:56 PM CaptHindsight: http://abyz.me.uk/rpi/pigpio/
09:56 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-022-j :)
10:11 PM jym: SpeedEvil: WHiskey Tango Foxtrot
10:13 PM roycroft: well, i had three goes at making the first part today
10:13 PM roycroft: all fails
10:13 PM roycroft: as soon as i start rotating the rotary table the upper x-y table starts moving on its own
10:14 PM roycroft: no matter how light the cut
10:14 PM roycroft: and i tried tightening the gib screws to "lock" it, to no avail
10:15 PM roycroft: since the part is just a router template for some wooden parts, i can make it freehand and it will be accurate enough
10:15 PM roycroft: so i gave up for today and made the pedestal mount for my belt grinder vfd, which i've been meaning to do for a long time
10:15 PM roycroft: since freehanding the template will require a lot of time on the belt grinder it seemed a good project
10:19 PM roycroft: i really need to figure out a way to lock the ways of the x-y table, but i can complete my current project without it, so i think i'll put that whole project aside for a while
10:36 PM Tom_L: mine is in the attic in a box
10:45 PM roycroft: well i don't really need mine for this project
10:45 PM roycroft: but there are times where it might come in handy
10:46 PM roycroft: i could have done this project just on the rotary table, without the upper x-y table
10:46 PM roycroft: but that would require repositioning the part during the machining
10:47 PM roycroft: which was the intended purpose of the upper x-y table
10:47 PM roycroft: i could have just mounted it directly on the rotary table and reindicated it when i need to rotate around the second point
10:50 PM Tom_L: the table is useless if it won't stay still
10:53 PM roycroft: correct
10:53 PM roycroft: which is why i gave up until i can figure out how to keep ti from moving
10:54 PM Tom_L: if i had a boat i might have a use for mine but i don't
10:54 PM roycroft: anchors are overrated
10:55 PM roycroft: it's the anchor chain that matters