#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 11 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:54 AM Deejay: moin
02:02 AM Tom_L: morning
02:18 AM Tom_L: nothing like waking up to a burst water heater
02:19 AM Tom_L: and 2-3" water in the basement
05:08 AM jthornton: morning
05:24 AM jthornton: rut row
05:55 AM Elmo40: so muggy out
06:03 AM jthornton: cold front today only getting to 88°F today
06:04 AM XXCoder: 70s and rain here
06:04 AM XXCoder: yeserday was literally rain all day
06:04 AM XXCoder: today heavy rain then quiet afterwards
06:05 AM jthornton: I think the chickens want out...
06:08 AM Elmo40: there was a slight rain here (southern ontario). all it did was brought up the humidity. my windows are dripping. as if i want florida weather! :-P
06:09 AM XXCoder: lol
06:09 AM XXCoder: i remember that strings only design that gets water from air
06:09 AM XXCoder: you would drown if you made one in florida
06:12 AM XXCoder: https://www.wired.com/2015/01/architecture-and-vision-warkawater/
08:39 AM perry_j1987: morning
08:42 AM SpeedEvil: Moning.
10:42 AM CaptHindsight: has anyone ever come across a system that has low latency jitter without a preempt_rt kernel?
10:54 AM pcw_home: DOS :-)
10:56 AM perry_j1987: i see people are removing the pcie to usb chip on the rpi 4 now and soldering in pciex1 adapters heh
10:57 AM CaptHindsight: yeah, they should have brought the PCIe signals out to a connector
10:57 AM CaptHindsight: but I knew they would not
10:58 AM CaptHindsight: someone claimed to have <2uS latency with a non-patched Linux kernel
10:59 AM CaptHindsight: but, the hardware remains a mystery, so I call BS
11:00 AM CaptHindsight: I never bother testing latency using a non-patched preempt_rt or RTAI kernel, but that is impressive for even RTAI
11:01 AM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: they also did something non-standard again with the USB circuit
11:01 AM Rab: CaptHindsight, I'm curious what you mean. The hack I saw attached the PCIe bus to one of the onboard USB connectors, linked to a riser adapter with a PCIe slot.
11:02 AM CaptHindsight: likely to save 2 cents
11:02 AM Rab: You would rather they'd soldered a slot straight to the bus, or what?
11:03 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: yes or some connector
11:03 AM CaptHindsight: or if they are really cheap, just pads waiting for you to solder your own connector
11:03 AM Rab: Some connector that's not USB3?
11:04 AM Rab: Or do you mean the RPi developers, not the hacker?
11:04 AM CaptHindsight: RPI makers
11:04 AM Rab: ahh ok
11:04 AM CaptHindsight: hackers can do whatever they wish
11:08 AM perry_j1987: why did the whole irc client go black and white and thug life glasses dropped onto CaptHindsight's username :P
11:08 AM Rab: One can only wonder what degree of competence the RPi team might have evidenced through such an implementation.
11:09 AM CaptHindsight: well isn't Eben Upton tey guy behind it?
11:11 AM Rab: Wikipedia claims he is responsible for the overall software and hardware architecture of the Raspberry Pi device, but I don't know how involved he might be in implementation details.
11:13 AM CaptHindsight: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/07/raspberry-pi-4-uses-incorrect-usb-c-design-wont-work-with-some-chargers/
11:14 AM CaptHindsight: Upton went on to say, "I expect this will be fixed in a future board revision, but for now users will need to apply one of the suggested workarounds. It's surprising this didn't show up in our (quite extensive) field testing program."
11:14 AM CaptHindsight: " (quite extensive) field testing program" was what exactly?
11:16 AM CaptHindsight: they could have posted the schematics before they built them
11:18 AM perry_j1987: how "does" this whole opensource hardware thing work
11:20 AM Rab: I do not believe RPi is open source hardware.
11:23 AM Rab: But I think OSH is an inane concept anyway, since you can't copyright a circuit topology (under US law at least). You could patent it, or encumber your design files.
11:23 AM perry_j1987: ah the schematics are opensourced but no board designs
11:24 AM jym: Morning folks
11:25 AM Rab: The few OSH projects I've tried to use as a starting point for something were so poorly made--unconnected nets, etc--I just ended up redoing schematic capture and layout from scratch.
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: well it's Broadcom
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: who is worse? Intel, Monsanto, Dupont?
11:26 AM jym: CaptHindsight: Bayer, they bought monsanto
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: I wanna know who brokered that deal
11:26 AM perry_j1987: the asprin company?
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: hey I have this wonderful investment for you
11:27 AM jym: perry_j1987: Yes
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: yes, that one
11:27 AM perry_j1987: i've legitimately not seen a single ad from them since i was a kid
11:27 AM Rab: I don't eat Intel products. I can avoid eating Monsanto products, if I work at it. But DuPont is around me and inside me, the fabric of my life. :(
11:28 AM perry_j1987: that'd make quite the commercial script Rab :)
11:30 AM Rab: My waifu waged jihad against PTFE cookware, even our nice Zojirushi rice cooker. I had to gently break it to her that all the plumbing fittings in the house were sealed with PTFE tape or pipe dope, and I wasn't planning on changing them.
11:32 AM CaptHindsight: is room temp PTFE bad now?
11:33 AM Rab: Yeah, it has some chemical
11:33 AM Rab: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#PFOA
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: PFOA is not PTFE
11:35 AM Rab: That is accurate.
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: used during emulsion polymerization so there could be trace amounts
11:36 AM CaptHindsight: probably depends on who's making it and how much they give a damn
11:41 AM Rab: " GenX has been introduced as a replacement for PFOA, but in a 2015 study which tested the effects on rats, GenX caused many of the same health problems as PFOA."
11:43 AM CaptHindsight: higher risk of injury driving or using the bathroom
11:43 AM Rab: Illustrates a pernicious problem. Every time I see e.g. "BPA-free", I read it as "contains new plasticizer with unknown effects"
11:43 AM CaptHindsight: probably should look at banning those
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: self driving will take care of one of those problems
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: maybe padded bathrooms with a safety harness should be mandatory
11:45 AM CaptHindsight: cell mutation is another "killer"
11:46 AM CaptHindsight: all further children should be checked for "bad" genes before birth
11:48 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.osadl.org/Continuous-latency-monitoring.qa-farm-monitoring.0.html
11:48 AM CaptHindsight: nothing close to 2uS
11:53 AM pcw_home: Ive seen 2 on RTAI with minimal hardware (no video mainly)
11:56 AM perry_j1987: im looking forward to driverless cars
11:56 AM perry_j1987: but i think they should do tram systems that are retrofitable onto existing cars
11:57 AM perry_j1987: basically on freeways if your tram equipped you can signal and let your car into the train and snesors just keep you equal distance away from front and rear cars etc
11:57 AM perry_j1987: in the interum until all the existing cars rust off the road and left with only driverless vehicles
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: yes, I'm still waiting to see the actual CPU and server board that they are using
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: I'm sure it's BS
11:59 AM CaptHindsight: <2uS with just isolcpus and no RT patch
12:25 PM * SpeedEvil sighs at the 'electronic leadscrew' video.
12:26 PM SpeedEvil: 90% of the parts could go away if he either used a 5V microcontroller, or a 3.3V LCD.
12:33 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: what is an 'electronic leadscrew'?
12:34 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmvsenYaepo - variable electronic virtual gearbox for arbitrary leadscrew speed.
12:43 PM perry_j1987: ok guys I want to play with adjusting the fit with this threadmill now
12:43 PM perry_j1987: i've done threads and they work nicely
12:44 PM perry_j1987: now what needs tweeked if i want a slightly tighter fit or slightly looser fit
12:44 PM gregcnc: are you using cutter comp?
12:44 PM gregcnc: in the code
12:44 PM perry_j1987: i dont believe so
12:44 PM perry_j1987: loading up fusion now
12:44 PM gregcnc: then you need to change the code
12:45 PM gregcnc: G41/42?
12:45 PM gloops: smoking motor problem seems to have been traced to on/off/stop switch, how can that cause a motor to smoke/run hot?
12:46 PM perry_j1987: ya its turned onto compensation "in computer"
12:46 PM gloops: (i know that because a second motor did exactly the same)
12:48 PM perry_j1987: so i'd have to turn that to "in control" to output g41/42 codes
12:48 PM perry_j1987: and then i setup the tool table in linuxcnc for this threadmill
12:48 PM gregcnc: so no cutter comp. you need to either change the diameter of the cutter in F360 or the dimension it's cutting to. I don't thread mill in F360 so don't know specifics.
12:48 PM gregcnc: or that
12:49 PM perry_j1987: im leery of this
12:49 PM perry_j1987: i dont want to break my expensive threadmill being stupid heh
12:49 PM gregcnc: it's gets easier after the first one
12:49 PM perry_j1987: after the first break? :P or... heh
12:49 PM gregcnc: the crying subsides and it's easier to spend the money on a new one
12:49 PM perry_j1987: lol
12:50 PM perry_j1987: should i be doing the whole g41/42 thing for everything
12:50 PM perry_j1987: and manage the diameter of tools in the tool table?
12:50 PM gregcnc: only if you need it
12:50 PM perry_j1987: as im learning i want to follow best practices etc
12:50 PM perry_j1987: so i dont get bad habits along the way
12:57 PM Rab: gloops, a friend of mine had an issue with the drum switch on his lathe: forward/reverse worked fine, but "off" position the motor emitted an ominous buzz. Turned out the cable insulation had abraded, and one of the conductors was shorted to the switch enclosure. Very bad fire/life safety hazard.
12:59 PM gloops: Rab hmm maybe something like that yes, ive checked the cables but cant see anything visually, by=passed the switch anyway no problems now
01:01 PM Rab: gloops, I've found drum switch wiring can be a subtle and mysterious art. Here are two completely different possible configurations I found for mine (currently using the second): http://reboots.g-cipher.net/mill/mill_motor_wiring.png
01:02 PM gloops: probably remain a mystery for me for all eternity Rab lol
01:15 PM perry_j1987: gregcnc ok regenereated the gcode with g41/42 setup
01:16 PM perry_j1987: so as i understand i'd make the diameter of the threadmill bigger in order to cut tighter threads on a boss right?
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: does PNCconf look for 5i25 configs in usr/lib/formware/hm2?
01:46 PM Deejay: re
01:51 PM jdh: I need a nema23 frame BLDC servo with hall, encoder, 50:1 gearbox. like 60-100 Ncm. any suggestions?
02:10 PM esch: looking for a plc discussion channel, is anyone aware of one?
02:11 PM jthornton: don't know of any but many of us use plc's
02:12 PM jthornton: and we chat about everything from beer to chickens here
02:13 PM esch: neat
02:13 PM esch: yeah a google search brought me here, figured it was a decent place to start
02:15 PM esch: got a job as a controls 'engineer' a couple months back, did some rslogix in school but using mostly studio5000 at this place
02:17 PM esch: figured if I find somewhere to idle I might pick up a trick or two along the way
02:18 PM JT-Shop: I use rslogix 500 and 5000, never used studio 5000 but I think I have it on my laptop
02:19 PM JT-Shop: the biggest PIA is just communicating with an AB PLC lol
02:19 PM esch: visual studio with AB crap
02:20 PM esch: I'd cry about it, but some of my projects use CCW
02:22 PM JT-Shop: and if you don't have the program on your laptop you can't get and tags or comments out of the slicks
02:22 PM esch: yeeeep
02:22 PM esch: thankfully we use all new stuff
02:23 PM esch: with a few exceptions here and there but nearly everything is done via ethernet
02:24 PM esch: a bit of a boon from being an OEM
02:27 PM esch: doing HMI stuff with factorytalk now though, can't figure out a way to make a bunch of buttons that are linked up to the same array without having to edit each one
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: does PNCconf look for 5i25 configs in usr/lib/formware/hm2? away from a LCNC machine right now
02:55 PM JT-Shop: esch: this where I go when I'm stuck http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/forumdisplay.php?f=2
02:59 PM esch: http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/forumdisplay.php?f=2
02:59 PM esch: oops
03:00 PM esch: not used to using putty, forget that right click is paste >.>
03:00 PM esch: yeah I've ended up on plctalk quite a bit the past couple months, haven't really gone there as a first resort though
03:01 PM esch: feel like I'm stepping through a portal to angelfire
03:01 PM JT-Shop: Ken Roach is mr allen bradley
03:01 PM * JT-Shop gets back to the brush fire
03:07 PM esch: yeah it's saved my butt, especailly with motion stuff
03:07 PM esch: didn't touch any of that in school
04:32 PM Tom_L: man what a day
04:45 PM Deejay: gn8
04:47 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: basement dry?
05:27 PM perry_j1987: whats up Tom_L
05:42 PM Tom_L: skunkworks no not yet
05:42 PM Tom_L: got a new water heater in and they ripped the basement apart and it's drying now
05:54 PM jthornton: you had carpet? or drywall?
06:00 PM Elmo40: why was the water heater buried?
06:06 PM _unreal_: Elmo40, because it was laid to rest LOL
06:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/araisrobo/Machineface oh no!
06:15 PM Elmo40: i think the Z steps are too small.
06:15 PM Elmo40: at least go to 10mm
06:15 PM Elmo40: the X & Y should go to 50
06:16 PM Elmo40: i hate those round 'dials' at the bottom... give me a slider!
06:16 PM Elmo40: so much 'wrong' with this design.
06:17 PM _unreal_: DING DING... milling job done
06:17 PM _unreal_: next in the nest
06:17 PM Elmo40: you mill a coffee?
06:18 PM Elmo40: or a pizza?
06:18 PM _unreal_: Elmo40, tried onces came out decaf
06:18 PM Elmo40: O_o
06:18 PM Elmo40: hope it was swiss water decaf!
06:18 PM Elmo40: and not the chlorinated one...
06:18 PM _unreal_: not sure used a china end mill
06:18 PM _unreal_: may have been a hybrid
06:18 PM Elmo40: unknown
06:18 PM Elmo40: true
06:20 PM Elmo40: anyone use machinekit?
06:21 PM _unreal_: machinekit?
06:21 PM _unreal_: What is machine kit
06:22 PM _unreal_: i'm looking at the site and I"m not sure
06:22 PM CaptHindsight: not sure what their real goal over there was
06:22 PM CaptHindsight: headless CNC controller on ARM?
06:23 PM CaptHindsight: or some embedded project or kickstarter
06:23 PM _unreal_: same. i just read most of the main web site links, home/about/community/doc.. etc... and I'm still not sure WHAT the core of it is
06:24 PM CaptHindsight: the BBB
06:24 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, no no no no its BB8
06:24 PM _unreal_: bb8t
06:24 PM CaptHindsight: uses the integrated microcontrollers for stepping
06:40 PM Tom_L: jthornton, both
06:41 PM _unreal_: well I have 3 hold downs cut out would like a 4th but I think I'm out of material
06:41 PM Tom_L: jthornton, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/basement/water_heater_split.jpg
06:41 PM Tom_L: not much room to get a pic
06:45 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, seriously put that tank on a fucking diet
06:45 PM gregcnc: relief valve fail or rust?
06:46 PM Tom_L: i have yet to investigate but it looks like the side seam burst. i'll have to peel back the insul to see for sure
06:46 PM gregcnc: well yes, but why
06:46 PM Tom_L: no idea
06:47 PM Tom_L: it was fine at 11 last night by 1:30 it wasn't
06:47 PM Tom_L: no warning
06:47 PM gregcnc: at least it didn't rocket through the roof
06:48 PM Tom_L: true
06:51 PM jthornton: wow never seen one do that
06:51 PM jthornton: must have been leaking under the skin...
06:52 PM Tom_L: me either
06:52 PM jthornton: my buddy gave me a leaking water heater and the only thing wrong was no sealant on a plug
06:53 PM Tom_L: i never noticed any sign of moisture around it prior
06:53 PM jthornton: after stripping the water heater down and seeing what the issue was it's now my water tank for the plasma table
06:54 PM perry_j1987: i had a tankless heater once that sprung a leak right on one of the elbows where it wrapped back around to go into thee radiator. little pin stream of water shot across the room wetting some stuff heh
06:54 PM Tom_L: want a spare?
06:54 PM perry_j1987: small enough you couldnt see the stream
06:54 PM jthornton: not with a hole in it lol
06:55 PM Tom_L: i'll put some bondo on it. you'll never know the difference
06:56 PM jthornton: lol
06:58 PM Tom_L: time for a HOT shower :)
07:06 PM jthornton: yippie
07:09 PM Elmo40: JB Weld might be better ;-)
07:23 PM _unreal_: WOW the last 2 hold downs I must milled out came out amazing
07:23 PM _unreal_: I adjusted the RPM lowered them that is.
07:23 PM _unreal_: stopped the melt issues
07:24 PM _unreal_: Elmo40, jb weld for what?
07:26 PM _unreal_: As to that tank puffing. chances are IF the water supply is TOWN. there would have been a spike in pressure AND the tank is old and bee rusting on the inside.
07:26 PM _unreal_: regardless tanks rarly split like that unless they see a pressure spike. I deal with hot water tanks all the time working on the luxury yachts
07:26 PM _unreal_: ALLLLL the time
07:31 PM perry_j1987: they dont do tankless on yachts?
07:31 PM _unreal_: no that requires high amounts of energy
07:33 PM _unreal_: BTW tom your pink and yellow snow sleds look like hey are sweating LOL
07:33 PM _unreal_: They are out of there environment
07:33 PM _unreal_: LOL
10:08 PM perry_j1987: quiet tonight
10:10 PM Tom_L: exhausting day
10:10 PM perry_j1987: aye
10:11 PM perry_j1987: im feeling a bit lazy to get up and turn on the air
10:11 PM perry_j1987: so sweltering in the recliner instead
10:11 PM Tom_L: get your threads figured out?
10:12 PM Tom_L: just keep increasing the arc radius until you get what you want
10:12 PM perry_j1987: i chickened out for fear of brekaing my threadmill with the whole g41/42 thing :P
10:13 PM perry_j1987: spent some time researching but couldnt find anything that helped me grasp the whole concept
10:13 PM Tom_L: i increased it in the model, not using comp
10:15 PM Tom_L: my cad works a little different than f360 though
10:16 PM Tom_L: i wound up with a .3785 R for my 3/4" thread to get a good fit
10:25 PM perry_j1987: you just increased the boss size itself?
10:25 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/thread_mills/threads/
10:26 PM Tom_L: a little info on threads and fit
10:26 PM Tom_L: i'm doing internal threads, i kept increasing the helix radius until i got what i wanted
10:27 PM Tom_L: external threads boss should be the major diameter to begin with
10:28 PM Tom_L: on the 3/4
10:29 PM Tom_L: thread, taking into accound the cutter radius my helix radius ended up at .081"
10:30 PM Tom_L: so .2975 + .081 = .3785
10:30 PM Tom_L: my cutter may be cutting a little undersize too i dunno
10:50 PM perry_j1987: so on fusion i have that pitch offset value i can tinker with i guess
11:31 PM justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser
11:42 PM phillc54: linuxcnc-build: force build --branch=master 2000.docs