#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 07 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:48 AM _unreal_: OMG just found an other good website https://cam.openbuilds.com/#
01:04 AM tom is now known as Guest40765
02:40 AM Deejay: moin
02:40 AM XXCoder: _unreal_: hows that cam so far?
02:40 AM XXCoder: hey
02:45 AM Deejay: hey xxcoder
03:51 AM PL7icnc: Hi its raining outside Bad for Familie good for Garden
03:52 AM PL7icnc: is the forum been overloaded with hits
03:52 AM PL7icnc: it is geting more and more slower
05:28 AM jthornton: morning
06:58 AM Tom_itx: morning
07:03 AM jthornton: morning
07:11 AM Tom_itx: what's up this morning?
07:11 AM jthornton: a little trim painting and finish up that damn wood lathe spindle adapter
07:12 AM Tom_itx: 74F Humidity: 94%
07:13 AM jthornton: same here
07:13 AM Tom_itx: startin to feel like the south here
07:16 AM Tom_itx: the M30 thread isn't part of that is it?
07:16 AM Tom_itx: just got to thinking that could be the spindle thread
07:17 AM jthornton: yea the spindle is M30x3.5 thread
07:18 AM Tom_itx: i'm still trying to make an adapter for my collet holder
07:18 AM jthornton: with a MT2 taper
07:18 AM Tom_itx: tried one last night and my 3/4 16 thread ended up too tight
07:18 AM jthornton: thread milled?
07:18 AM Tom_itx: yes
07:19 AM jthornton: how is the finish from a thread mill?
07:19 AM Tom_itx: couldn't seem to get it centered up good enough on my old manual lathe. the spindle bearings are getting worn
07:19 AM Tom_itx: really good finish
07:19 AM Tom_itx: i'll post a pic later
07:19 AM jthornton: I still need to get a few of them
07:19 AM Tom_itx: even though it's a scrap part
07:20 AM Tom_itx: it makes threading alot easier on the mill
07:30 AM Tom_itx: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/thread_mills/Mill_Holder8.jpg
07:30 AM Tom_itx: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/thread_mills/Mill_Holder9.jpg
07:31 AM Tom_itx: the hss spot (chamfer) tool is gettin a little tired
07:36 AM jthornton: threads look good
07:37 AM jthornton: I guess once you take it out you can't index it again
07:37 AM Tom_itx: i wish i had a plug gage for them but i'm not gonna get one
07:37 AM Tom_itx: right
07:37 AM Tom_itx: i got a bolt to test with but can't really test it until i take it out and try threading on the spindle
07:47 AM Tom_itx: on a previous one a while back i scribed the edge of the part and the softjaw and got it fairly close but probably not the best idea
07:48 AM Tom_itx: back when i first got the cutters and was trying to dial it in
07:57 AM jthornton: if something round fits in a 5C I have a square and hex holder that can be indexed
08:32 AM Inline_ is now known as Inline
10:38 AM perry_j1987: morning all
10:43 AM Tom_itx: jthornton, do you know what the 2B 3B etc on threads is? i know it's the fit but not sure what the tolerance is
10:43 AM Tom_itx: nm.. https://www.natool.com/sites/default/files/public/documents/classes_of_fit_web_catp101-102.pdf
11:15 AM perry_j1987: my challenge for the day
11:15 AM perry_j1987: make a boss and then flip it over and make a matching boss on the other side that is concentric with the first boss...
11:15 AM perry_j1987: ugh
11:15 AM jthornton: yea 3B is unobtainum with our tools, 2B is normal threads
11:16 AM Tom_itx: yeah that's kinda what i gathered
11:16 AM jthornton: think about it for a while... perry_j1987
11:17 AM perry_j1987: i'm dreading it is that the same thing? :P
11:17 AM jthornton: well I'm done painting for the day, it's too hot to paint...
11:17 AM perry_j1987: i gave it a college try and was off
11:17 AM jthornton: well that's close... do you have a photo or drawing of the part?
11:17 AM Tom_itx: can't keep up with the dry cycle?
11:18 AM Tom_itx: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortise_and_tenon
11:18 AM perry_j1987: i just redid the cam so when i do the flip the boss should be in the same spot
11:18 AM Tom_itx: maybe that's what you want
11:18 AM perry_j1987: just underneath now.
11:18 AM jthornton: not supposed to use this paint if the temperature will get above 90°F 4 hours after you paint
11:19 AM Tom_itx: i would have looked for one with a lower temp rating :D
11:19 AM perry_j1987: its just that it'd be measuring off the oposite side of the part when you do the flip this way
11:19 AM Tom_itx: or are you wanting a mirror image part?
11:20 AM perry_j1987: pretty much
11:20 AM Tom_itx: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A3/Mold_Rev2/Final_mold4.jpg
11:20 AM Tom_itx: like that
11:21 AM Tom_itx: shouldn't be that difficult
11:22 AM perry_j1987: so i gotta make sure my model is exact dimensions as the raw stock
11:22 AM perry_j1987: so when it gets flipped its still lined up right
11:22 AM jthornton: or make your raw stock match the model
11:22 AM perry_j1987: whoa whoa that sounds abit too advanced for me :P
11:22 AM Tom_itx: raw stock is just that. raw
11:26 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
11:26 AM jthornton: it's the first step to square up and size the raw stock, because it's usually not square or to size
11:26 AM perry_j1987: for this application i dont care about the raw faces that will be left i just need the bosses to line up
11:26 AM jthornton: in that case I use a fixture...
11:26 AM perry_j1987: i designed a vise stop that im using
11:26 AM perry_j1987: and parallels
11:26 AM perry_j1987: so i suppose... if im going off a vise stop. and then when i flip the part over to do the second boss i'd technically need to setup a second work offset
11:27 AM jthornton: for example this part http://spyderstore.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=62 I mill the center hole and drill and tap the holes you can't see then mount that in a jig to machine the od and the step in the back, then in the lathe on another jig I turn the face
11:27 AM perry_j1987: so i can measure off the same face as the first boss for keeping things lined up?
11:27 AM Tom_L: jym were you near enough to feel the quakes?
11:28 AM jym: Tom_L: No, they are abut 400 miles south. But I noticed they are 2 miles from China Lake naval weapons testing facility in th edesert
11:28 AM jthornton: yea if you rotate around the Y axis the X will remain the same and you now need to use the opposite Y as you did in the first op
11:29 AM jthornton: got my letters all wrong lol
11:29 AM jthornton: time for a nap
11:29 AM jthornton: if you rotate the part around the Y axis the Y face will be in the same place and you need to use the opposite X face for the second op
11:30 AM Tom_L: iirc you can change the sign on one axis in a pinch
11:30 AM jthornton: watching chicken TV and typing at the same time lol
11:30 AM Tom_L: i've never actually tried that
11:30 AM perry_j1987: ok
11:30 AM jthornton: if you use the left side for X0 in op 1 then you need to use the right side for X0 in op 2
11:31 AM perry_j1987: i'll work on setting that up to give a test run
11:33 AM jthornton: also to help me remember how the part was in the vise from the start I put a dot on the left rear corner of the Z face... has saved me a few times when dropping a part
11:35 AM jym: Tom_L: I've been a 7,2 before, I just covered my head with the blanket as I thought the popcorn celieing was falling. Untill the aftershock kicked in
11:41 AM perry_j1987: does linuxcnc have some sort of resolution setting for arcs
11:41 AM jthornton: yea
11:41 AM jthornton: er no
11:42 AM perry_j1987: i have 8x stepping
11:42 AM jthornton: it has a limit to how far out it can be
11:42 AM perry_j1987: this is a 6040 cnc with ballscrews (all china all the way) lol
11:42 AM perry_j1987: but i notice this boss test i did was not very ...round
11:43 AM Wolf__: ball screws dont mean no backlash
11:44 AM Wolf__: but also to get perfect circle the machine needs the step/distance dialed in perfect
11:44 AM jthornton: I thought you were talking about an arc error where the G2/3 was wrong
11:44 AM sensille: perry_j1987: haven't noticed that
11:44 AM perry_j1987: i did make a 100mm box in some mdf that measured dead on 100 on both sides
11:45 AM sensille: is it really G2/3?
11:46 AM sensille: on the other hand, i'm not sure f360 generates arc, so i might never have used them
11:47 AM jym: Tom_L: https://maps.conservation.ca.gov/cgs/fam/App/index.html?marker=-117.6028486737194%2C35.747191774461776%2C%2C%2C%2C&markertemplate=%7B%22title%22%3A%22HOL%22%2C%22longitude%22%3A-117.6028486737194%2C%22latitude%22%3A35.747191774461776%2C%22isIncludeShareUrl%22%3Atrue%7D&level=9
11:48 AM perry_j1987: i see a g3 line in the gcode
11:48 AM Loetmichel: *UHOH!* Just drove my BMW 525i on the steel ramps to see if where the exhaust leak is... (found it, exactly where i thought on the flange between manifold and catalysator. But: as i put in the parking brake to the higest notch possible and released the brakes the car just rolled down backwards the ramps. Had to put it in gear and stop the engine to look under it... MAAAAN do i need to repair
11:48 AM Loetmichel: the brakes!
11:51 AM Wolf__: perry_j1987: one thing you can do is chuck up a pencil or pen and drive the machine with raw code to play with the arcs https://i.imgur.com/B5uhafo.jpg https://i.imgur.com/uRt1WRZ.jpg
11:51 AM perry_j1987: thats a good idea
11:52 AM Wolf__: this is what my first run looked like https://i.imgur.com/S7VPDVw.jpg lol
11:52 AM Tom_L: Loetmichel you can make car payments or you can make repair payments :)
11:54 AM Tom_L: jym Califor n i a looks like a broken piece of glass
11:54 AM Tom_L: tread lightly
11:55 AM Tom_L: Wolf__, is that your sacrificial plate?
11:55 AM Wolf__: high end work surface =D
12:01 PM jym: Tom_L Same as the broken glass, nothing to see here... https://goo.gl/maps/Xn34A1qsVPB8kxB68
12:02 PM perry_j1987: now what size collet works on pencils heh
12:03 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L_ nah
12:04 PM Loetmichel: would never buy a car i cant pay cash
12:04 PM Loetmichel: a bit of repair is to be expected on a 2001 BMW ;)
12:05 PM perry_j1987: ah 8mm ofcourse
12:09 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: hihi, sacrificial plate... and i thought I was cheap using MDF as spoilboard ;)
12:10 PM Loetmichel: jym: i like how you have oil stains on the parking spaces
12:10 PM Loetmichel: seems the F14s are leaking a bit ;)
12:15 PM jym: Loetmichel: Heh
12:38 PM _unreal_: There finally getting my Cad file more tuned after finding a few errors in the cam software
12:38 PM _unreal_: Later when Fam leaves I'm going to go mill out my parts
12:39 PM _unreal_: speaking of parts I need to go find My starboard for the body
12:39 PM _unreal_: to be milled
01:19 PM jym: ve7it: Hi Ho!!!
01:20 PM jym: ve7it: Hey, you get on HF these days?
01:30 PM perry_j1987: so i just noticed.. when i zero an axis i can hear the steppers move
01:30 PM perry_j1987: so i put a dial indicator on it and when ever i zero an axis it moves the dial indicator a significant jump
01:30 PM perry_j1987: ....
01:34 PM perry_j1987: odd
01:34 PM perry_j1987: so if i leave axis default of 0.0 on the touch off screen it will move about .1mm off when zeroing...
01:34 PM perry_j1987: if i do 0.000 in the touchoff screen it stays put
01:34 PM perry_j1987: what is that all about
01:46 PM JT-Shop: odd
01:52 PM perry_j1987: very
01:52 PM perry_j1987: doesnt happen to any of you guys? :P
01:52 PM Tom_L: any backlash comp in the config on those axis?
01:52 PM perry_j1987: i dont believe so i havnt played with that yet
01:53 PM perry_j1987: im actualy just getting around to playing with this mitutoyo dial indicator to verify everything
01:53 PM perry_j1987: just finished x and y
01:53 PM perry_j1987: according to it.. when commanded to move 15mm im getting 14.9479 on x and y
01:54 PM perry_j1987: so thats considerably off
01:54 PM perry_j1987: getting it ready to check z now
01:54 PM Tom_L: adjust the scale in [AXIS x]
01:54 PM perry_j1987: thats something i havnt understood
01:54 PM perry_j1987: what is all this scale stuff
01:54 PM perry_j1987: why not just simple steps per mm
01:55 PM Tom_L: it tells it how many turns to turn this for that to be there
01:55 PM Tom_L: because steps are broken down into microstepping
01:56 PM Tom_L: and it is steps per mm, it's just finer than you might like
01:57 PM Tom_L: or distance per rev however you care to look at it
01:58 PM Tom_L: so if your steppers are 1.8 deg per step, that's 200 steps per rev
01:58 PM Tom_L: if you have 10 microsteps that's 2000
01:59 PM perry_j1987: why not just ask user what micro steps they are using and the steps per mm and let it do the calculation
01:59 PM _unreal_: ok...... finally got the work part screwed down
01:59 PM perry_j1987: like 3d printer firmwares do
01:59 PM Tom_L: if it takes 5 turns to go 1mm (it shouldn't) then that's 10000 per mm
01:59 PM _unreal_: just made a bleep discovery
01:59 PM _unreal_: when I was using TURBOCNC I know I put the numbers in correctly
01:59 PM _unreal_: checked it over and over for the steps/mm
02:00 PM _unreal_: apparently the software has a fractions bug... becaus I know I did some test moves and it was on the money. but the further out you get from x0y0 it was off by a hair
02:01 PM _unreal_: so now that I'm using a differnt hardware/software steup that i know is 100% on the money. Iv discovered that all of my @#%Q$^!Q#$ mounting holes are not landing on the INCH as I had set them up to be
02:01 PM Tom_L: my x axis scale happens to be 10160
02:01 PM Tom_L: z is 30480
02:04 PM _unreal_: ok transfering nc files and preping to mill my "parts"
02:04 PM _unreal_: with any luck my TABS will be in the code though I dont think they are
02:04 PM _unreal_: not sure why
02:04 PM Tom_L: are we making good parts today or bad ones?
02:04 PM _unreal_: remains to be seen
02:05 PM _unreal_: I'm waiting for the ickk...... netbook to load chrome so I can get my files. dont know why but I just can not get that win10 laptop to talk to this linux computer network wise
02:05 PM _unreal_: they jsut wont comunicate
02:06 PM perry_j1987: looks like mine is 320 in the ini right now
02:06 PM _unreal_: 320?
02:06 PM perry_j1987: under scale
02:06 PM _unreal_: under scale?
02:07 PM Tom_L: in the [AXIS] section of each axis
02:07 PM perry_j1987: ya
02:08 PM perry_j1987: think i'd benefit from upping the microstepping on this 6040?
02:09 PM perry_j1987: i have the opportunity cause the case cover is off
02:09 PM perry_j1987: its about 20 screws to take it off heh
02:09 PM perry_j1987: pain
02:15 PM _unreal_: just started, we apear to be making a good part so far
02:16 PM _unreal_: I really need to make a dust collection system or purchase a vac, I'm thinking of making a dust collection with a tiny motor I have. I just need the squirl cage part of it.
02:16 PM _unreal_: thinking of making a small box putting a dust bag in it
02:17 PM _unreal_: just enough suck to collect light particials and dust
02:17 PM perry_j1987: dust cyclone
02:17 PM _unreal_: so far my chip production is beautiful
02:17 PM _unreal_: milling starboard
02:18 PM _unreal_: feed rate 10ipm
02:19 PM SpeedEvil: If you mill starboard, do you use port as a coolant?
02:20 PM _unreal_: the port is for me :)
02:20 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: a nice cianti
02:23 PM _unreal_: so far so good
02:23 PM _unreal_: wondering if I should risk a little more feed rate
02:23 PM Tom_L: by all means
02:24 PM _unreal_: milling .6" depth total with a .03 I believe plunge rate per pass
02:27 PM _unreal_: What do you guys think? https://drive.google.com/open?id=1S1jHAqz3x1Faq2qxIuKsokEJnwgqcskH
02:28 PM _unreal_: my nc files
02:41 PM _unreal_: ?
02:45 PM _unreal_: still milling but just did a test fit of my PCB that I did the test milling on. NOT a usable board. perfect fit
03:08 PM perry_j1987: hmmm i need to fix the indicator marks on this dial indicator
03:08 PM perry_j1987: they are so faded i cant read them heh
03:10 PM _unreal_: well so far per design dead nuts accurate
03:10 PM * _unreal_ needs pictures
03:11 PM _unreal_: pocketing operation going great
03:27 PM SpeedEvil: [[
03:27 PM SpeedEvil: |
03:29 PM _unreal_: you dont say
03:35 PM perry_j1987: there we go now i can read the indicator
03:35 PM perry_j1987: just popped the lens off and took the indicator disc out and touched up all the tick marks
03:36 PM perry_j1987: good as new
03:41 PM Deejay: gn8
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: ][
03:45 PM _unreal_: :) does deejay ever stay up past his bed time
03:45 PM _unreal_: LOL
03:45 PM SpeedEvil: pppppp
03:47 PM SpeedEvil: ikko'
03:48 PM _unreal_: 2 parts milled flawless
03:53 PM perry_j1987: ok
03:53 PM perry_j1987: so i go from some point and move to left in x
03:54 PM perry_j1987: pick a spot and zero it out
03:54 PM perry_j1987: zero the dial indicator as well
03:54 PM perry_j1987: command it to move 15mm more to the left and the movement is spot on cause i just finished fine tuning my steps per mm
03:54 PM perry_j1987: then i tell it to move back to x0 and its 0.007" off
03:54 PM perry_j1987: or 0.1778
03:56 PM JT-Shop2: how much will it move when you push on the table?
03:57 PM _unreal_: .007 off I can sea easy
03:57 PM _unreal_: see
03:57 PM _unreal_: .1 off thats a bit much
03:57 PM _unreal_: and do you have any backlash in your machine?
03:58 PM _unreal_: What your describing sounds like backlash
03:58 PM perry_j1987: thats what im trying to figure out
03:58 PM perry_j1987: its a 6040
03:58 PM _unreal_: direct drive?
03:58 PM perry_j1987: ya steppers right off the ballscrews
03:58 PM _unreal_: ! you know I dont know what my machine translates into for size
03:58 PM _unreal_: heh
03:59 PM _unreal_: all I know is my machine is WAY cooler then what any one else has. from a point of DIY
04:00 PM perry_j1987: its going past the zero mark when i tell it to go back to x0
04:00 PM perry_j1987: by 7 ticks of the indicator
04:00 PM _unreal_: so its over shooting or under shooting?
04:01 PM perry_j1987: i think overshooting
04:01 PM perry_j1987: this is just weird
04:01 PM _unreal_: ? that is wierd
04:01 PM _unreal_: under shooting would be back lash
04:01 PM perry_j1987: aye
04:02 PM perry_j1987: i invented forwardlash
04:02 PM * perry_j1987 files patent
04:03 PM _unreal_: LOL
04:03 PM _unreal_: not often I burst out truly laughing but thats aaa... good ya......
04:03 PM perry_j1987: lol
04:04 PM perry_j1987: so i got the indicator in the vise and move the spindle into the plunger then zero out everything
04:04 PM _unreal_: so my machine is like 304mm x 196mm
04:04 PM perry_j1987: tell it to move in 15mm and the math says its on the nose now
04:04 PM _unreal_: working area not sure what that would be compaired to the chines 3040's etc...
04:05 PM perry_j1987: so yours is like a 3020 than
04:05 PM _unreal_: ? ok
04:06 PM _unreal_: sigh... an other T storm outside
04:07 PM gloops: ichs and loetmichel cut ally on their small plywood machines
04:07 PM _unreal_: gloops, what?
04:07 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, is there any chance your machine is skipping steps?
04:07 PM gloops: 2 people in here - made machines from plywood and successfully cut aluminium with them
04:07 PM _unreal_: over feed rate?
04:08 PM _unreal_: I'm sure I could cut alluminum with mine :)
04:08 PM Loetmichel: gloops: i wouldt say 1500mm by 1020mm by 160mm travel qualifies as small though :-)
04:08 PM gloops: mines all iron and i dont cut ally
04:08 PM gloops: Loetmichel yeah not so small heh
04:08 PM _unreal_: mine is made of fiberglass
04:09 PM _unreal_: I'm sure I am the only person in here with a fiberglass cnc machine
04:09 PM gloops: _unreal_ interesting, i seriously considered laminated fibreglass to make parts for mine
04:09 PM _unreal_: gloops, I would go that rout
04:09 PM _unreal_: woulddnt
04:09 PM gloops: we even talked about making a machine to produce for selling, you could have all the moulds and make all the parts fairly quick and cheap
04:10 PM _unreal_: better to use fiberglass board's like RED BOARD, GREEN BOARD, OR BETTER YET G10
04:10 PM _unreal_: g10 is the ideal choice
04:10 PM gloops: pretty rigid and light material
04:10 PM _unreal_: light LOL
04:10 PM _unreal_: HARDLY
04:10 PM _unreal_: strong like an MFFER though
04:11 PM gloops: compared to steel and ally
04:11 PM _unreal_: maybe
04:11 PM gloops: for much less $
04:11 PM _unreal_: 1/2" g10 5"x5" will support 10k lbs
04:12 PM _unreal_: if you did a holder 1" in all the way around and suspended with a bolt in the midle
04:12 PM perry_j1987: no not skipping steps
04:12 PM _unreal_: I assume steel and g10 are close in price
04:12 PM gloops: mic Z plates starting at £100 - fibreglass £10
04:12 PM perry_j1987: doing this test at F100
04:13 PM _unreal_: 100 ipm?
04:13 PM perry_j1987: metric
04:13 PM _unreal_: 100mm
04:13 PM perry_j1987: aye
04:13 PM gloops: per second?
04:13 PM _unreal_: 100" thats fast 100mm per inch thats crawling
04:13 PM _unreal_: 100mm per min
04:14 PM _unreal_: bottom part almost cut out
04:14 PM perry_j1987: F100 is 100mm/min
04:14 PM gloops: pretty slow, slow is right sometimes though
04:14 PM _unreal_: ya I'm milling the second part of my touch probe I designed
04:14 PM perry_j1987: how can it be overshooting when going back to zero
04:14 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1S1jHAqz3x1Faq2qxIuKsokEJnwgqcskH gloop
04:14 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: i made one a while back that was made of 3mm FR4
04:14 PM gloops: adaptive milling strategy speeds the work up - where applicable
04:15 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=359&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:15 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, my design is only a 5 parts dependong on how its milled
04:16 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: i doubt that would work
04:16 PM gloops: so homing not repeatable
04:16 PM _unreal_: Waht?
04:16 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, the design works good
04:16 PM Loetmichel: Rigidity isnt really a feature of the material but of the construction
04:16 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, https://drive.google.com/open?id=1o5n_bsAWQhsRSLu76Pp8b8F8XtUsFqjJ
04:16 PM Loetmichel: design boxes in wherever possible goes a long way
04:16 PM gloops: missed steps, mechanical - connector or pulley slipping, first checks
04:17 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: thats a picture of a touch probe, not of a machine
04:18 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, I know.... What did you refer to as not work?
04:18 PM _unreal_: then
04:18 PM _unreal_: probe or machine?
04:18 PM _unreal_: or someone else
04:18 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: i understood that you made your entire machine only out of 5 parts
04:18 PM Loetmichel: so single sheet "whatever"
04:18 PM Loetmichel: that doesent work that well
04:18 PM Loetmichel: not even in steel
04:19 PM Loetmichel: thats what i meant
04:19 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, my machine fiberglass https://drive.google.com/open?id=17bzs0MxvgGTeBPOZkX1hfkQsGf2SuQKO
04:19 PM _unreal_: my machine is made from single sheet fiberglass board
04:19 PM _unreal_: the only metal is the threaded rod, spindle mount, and bearing mounts
04:19 PM _unreal_: everything else is FRP
04:20 PM Loetmichel: yeah, all the same errors i made in the early days
04:20 PM _unreal_: ?
04:20 PM Loetmichel: side panels of the gantry just one (albeit thick) sheet of fibre board
04:20 PM Loetmichel: for example
04:20 PM _unreal_: 5/8ths
04:21 PM _unreal_: mine is all 5/8ths solid g10
04:21 PM _unreal_: all my flex is in the bearing mounts and pipes
04:21 PM Loetmichel: and the abysmal 400W dc "spindle"
04:22 PM _unreal_: ? working just fine
04:22 PM Loetmichel: yeah, as you hear
04:22 PM _unreal_: only spindle that would fit
04:22 PM _unreal_: My design
04:22 PM Loetmichel: that thing is chattering like crazy, and in soft wood
04:23 PM Loetmichel: i dont want to ill-talk your machine. i just see all the errors i made in the beginning repeatet
04:23 PM Loetmichel: -t+d
04:23 PM _unreal_: LOL Loetmichel I built the machine 7 years ago and never finished it. I JUST finished it
04:24 PM _unreal_: because its been sitting for years
04:24 PM _unreal_: just needed a motor controller and a few other parts
04:24 PM _unreal_: and yes DOES chatter like a MFer
04:25 PM _unreal_: but the output quality has been good
04:25 PM gloops: tool looks a bit long shanked
04:29 PM _unreal_: in that video it is ITS WAY to long
04:29 PM _unreal_: but it was the largest bit I had during that video. and I mean diam.
04:29 PM gloops: is it a spiral cutter?
04:30 PM perry_j1987: ok good news
04:30 PM _unreal_: more or less?
04:30 PM perry_j1987: some how i DID have some number in backlash compensation
04:30 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, its a boy!
04:30 PM _unreal_: ?
04:30 PM perry_j1987: i have no recolection of doign that
04:30 PM perry_j1987: so putting that at 0 and redoing the test
04:30 PM perry_j1987: it ALMOST goes back to zero on the dial
04:31 PM perry_j1987: feels good to have figured that out haha i had no idea how or why it was going so far past zero haha
04:31 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, ok so can you cycle to and from two points now repeatably and stop on the mark? with out loosing any location?
04:31 PM gloops: if you need the backlash comp you can compensate in final HOME position
04:32 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, makes sense to.... machine HAS no backlash and had backlash set
04:32 PM _unreal_: that would make it go over on the return
04:32 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: my old machine when we sold it to the new owner of the model plane shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUqo3zxv5Vo
04:32 PM perry_j1987: well it when it returned to 0 it was everso slightly off the mark for zero
04:32 PM Loetmichel: have no vif of it milling alu though
04:32 PM perry_j1987: so there is some amount i need to add to backlash comp
04:32 PM Loetmichel: or rather: i cant find it
04:34 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, if you motors are directly driving the ball screws and you ball screws have no back lash. then you likely do not need any backlash compensation
04:34 PM _unreal_: your
04:35 PM gloops: screw mountings also check - endfloat
04:35 PM _unreal_: now if you have lets say flex couplers of any kind driving the ball screws. and your ball screws have resistance (SHOULD NEVER HAPPEND) then you could be out by a few thou
04:36 PM perry_j1987: and now the x axis is dead on
04:36 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, also is your machine driven by dual ball screws? or single?
04:36 PM gloops: chinese c7 screws can have surprising amount of backlash
04:36 PM perry_j1987: i added .005 to the backlash now it returns directly on the needle nose
04:36 PM perry_j1987: single
04:37 PM perry_j1987: now to check Y
04:37 PM _unreal_: ! single ok reason I ask is because one side to the other. the machine can have flex
04:37 PM _unreal_: I dont have it setup in mine. never did dont know why but I have a crossing wire guide to keep the sides of the cnc inline
04:37 PM gloops: 1 screw for X - yeah racking
04:37 PM _unreal_: because I have a single threaded rod
04:38 PM _unreal_: RACKING!!! thats it. been so long since I've been doing CNC I have to relearn so many terms
04:38 PM gloops: switch on 1 side, youre not gonna get consistent homing if it is racking
04:38 PM _unreal_: FYI Loetmichel I've built 4 cnc machines
04:38 PM _unreal_: the one you saw is my second
04:38 PM gloops: every time it cuts one side may return different
04:39 PM _unreal_: a crossing wire stay system will stop racking in its tracks
04:39 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: my count is somewhere at 8 now. my first was bad though: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2859&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:39 PM _unreal_: but its really only good for the MAJOR axis
04:39 PM gloops: better with 2 screws, 2 motors and 2 switches - or 2 screws one motor and mechanical connection - belt or something
04:40 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, hehe the gears LOL
04:40 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: a crossing wire works for a 3d printer. not for a mill if ANY forces are involved
04:40 PM Loetmichel: the wire even if glass or steel isnt stiff enough
04:40 PM Loetmichel: it will eleongate
04:41 PM Loetmichel: a chain cross could work
04:41 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, a crossing wire stay is common
04:41 PM Loetmichel: yes, it is. for light load applications
04:41 PM _unreal_: its just to minimize the fractional racking
04:41 PM _unreal_: right
04:42 PM _unreal_: so a 3040 is an ideal candidate because its small and will stall the racking.
04:42 PM _unreal_: its not intended for compensating for heavy loading.
04:43 PM _unreal_: unless designed so. and even then steel cable even at 1/16 would be more then enough. will elogate over time. though likely not noticable in the life of the machine
04:46 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, did you built that in 08?
04:47 PM _unreal_: just looking at the time stamp in the page
04:47 PM Loetmichel: nope, i didnt meant elongate. a steel cable is a spring.
04:47 PM Loetmichel: which one?
04:47 PM _unreal_: the first machine
04:47 PM _unreal_: you built
04:47 PM Loetmichel: in 1998
04:47 PM _unreal_: the every error under the sun one I uess
04:47 PM _unreal_: ahh
04:47 PM _unreal_: ya my first I believe was 02
04:47 PM _unreal_: photo of it on cnczone.com
04:48 PM Loetmichel: link?
04:48 PM _unreal_: looking
04:48 PM _unreal_: I had no money or tools when I built it as well
04:49 PM _unreal_: there it is
04:49 PM _unreal_: https://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=945
04:50 PM Loetmichel: meh. needs a login
04:50 PM _unreal_: What?
04:51 PM _unreal_: https://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/500/3850first_cnc_machine.jpg
04:51 PM _unreal_: view able?
04:52 PM Loetmichel: niiice
04:58 PM _unreal_: ?
04:59 PM _unreal_: I dont know if you know what they are but in the background I have an IOPENER computer
05:00 PM _unreal_: still have it as well
05:00 PM _unreal_: still works even :)
05:00 PM _unreal_: the base was made from a scanner that had parallel bars.
05:01 PM _unreal_: everything had brass sleeve bearings
05:01 PM _unreal_: workd
05:01 PM _unreal_: I had big dropping resistors in the motor controllers though. nothing was very strong :( I needed a current control in the worst way
05:01 PM _unreal_: oh wel
05:02 PM _unreal_: time for a drink
05:02 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: this one worked surprisingly well: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3080&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:04 PM Loetmichel: same machine from below: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3017&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:05 PM Loetmichel: bigger picture: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3014&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:08 PM _unreal_: looking
05:10 PM _unreal_: nifty
05:10 PM _unreal_: when I built my first I had zero money
05:10 PM _unreal_: single guy living on my own
05:10 PM _unreal_: my own "home"
05:11 PM _unreal_: renting
05:11 PM Loetmichel: that machine was around 2003.
05:12 PM Loetmichel: just married a couple years ago and moved to a different city.
05:12 PM Loetmichel: so we were pretty much broke, too ;)
05:14 PM _unreal_: That was my issue with this machine.
05:14 PM _unreal_: I started building it about 4 months before my Xwife told me she was divorcing me
05:14 PM _unreal_: out of the blue
05:14 PM _unreal_: 2yo daughter etc...
05:15 PM _unreal_: only to discover she was cheating and drugs and all kinds of stuff. now I'm full time single dad
05:15 PM gloops: not be the first machine building divorce
05:16 PM _unreal_: ok brb one sec getting that drink I keep talking my self into
05:19 PM _unreal_: I guess its not going to arrive today
05:19 PM _unreal_: was hopping my spindle speed controller was going to show up
05:19 PM _unreal_: shipping said it would
05:19 PM _unreal_: oh well
05:22 PM gloops: one thing, building/tweaking a cnc machine takes the mind off other things
05:23 PM _unreal_: yep :)
05:23 PM _unreal_: and alcohol
05:27 PM _unreal_: for such a crappy little spindle I have to admit.... it does NOT have any wobble
05:27 PM _unreal_: all my wobble is in the machine
05:31 PM _unreal_: sweet my spindle speed controller just showed up
05:31 PM _unreal_: and no instructions MF'ERS
05:32 PM _unreal_: jsut got this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0789NKJZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
05:35 PM _unreal_: lol, everyone must be milling
05:40 PM Tom_shop: yup
05:40 PM _unreal_: amazingly my cheapy china 48v 4.5a psu I just got that is driving my spindle is stone cold
05:40 PM gloops: no instructions - the chinese know how to make it interesting
05:41 PM _unreal_: STONE cold. yet my spindle is just shy of being on fire
05:41 PM _unreal_: ya
05:41 PM gloops: assuming its on max rpm
05:42 PM gloops: air cooled you need a certain rpm for the cooling system to work efficiently
05:42 PM gloops: unless you fit independent fan
05:43 PM _unreal_: I dont have any fans on it
05:43 PM _unreal_: I can put my hand on it for 30 seconds before I cant take it any more
05:43 PM _unreal_: ok 20 seconds
05:44 PM gloops: shouldnt catch fire then
05:44 PM _unreal_: ya its not seeing any load
05:45 PM _unreal_: I'm milling a bear in starboard for my daughter. at 5ipm feed rate. and skilled down 50% @#$@#$@3 code goes full plunge cuts
05:45 PM _unreal_: skilled scaled
05:46 PM _unreal_: YEP there is clearly a bear in that starboard. WHO KNEW
05:47 PM _unreal_: ! ARG... 2hr of milling to go.. I should maybe risk some speed
05:47 PM _unreal_: and do a finish pass
05:47 PM _unreal_: heh gloops I'm not even using a BALL end bit nor the right size bit :)
05:48 PM _unreal_: she'll never know the difference
05:48 PM gloops: have to improvise sometimes
05:48 PM _unreal_: I think the step over rate is like 8%
05:49 PM perry_j1987: well this just turned out beautiful
05:49 PM gloops: my main 2 bits are 3.175mm and 6mm chinese spiral endmills, single flute
05:50 PM gloops: work out about £1-2 each
05:52 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, truth or sarcasm
05:53 PM _unreal_: so like $1.10 to $2.20 USD each
05:54 PM _unreal_: time to get more tequila
05:54 PM _unreal_: :)
05:54 PM _unreal_: waiting for a milling job is such hard work
05:54 PM _unreal_: :)
05:55 PM perry_j1987: truth heh
05:55 PM _unreal_: I was going to go sailing today but it decided to T storm
05:55 PM perry_j1987: whats wrong with a little thunder storm and sailing :)
05:55 PM _unreal_: I'm starting my planning for bilding a new boat
05:55 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-pcs-1-8-Carbide-Single-Flute-Spiral-Flat-Nose-End-Mill-CNC/263742381450?
05:55 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, simple. the lighting rod
05:56 PM perry_j1987: I want to build that Vacationer sailboat some day http://www.stevproj.com/VacSan17.jpg
05:56 PM _unreal_: gloops, What BS they dont ship to US
05:56 PM _unreal_: :)
05:56 PM _unreal_: I could built that easy perry_j1987
05:56 PM gloops: (Please allow 1-3mm error due to manual measurement. pls make sure you do not mind before you bid.)
05:56 PM gloops: lol
05:56 PM _unreal_: My industry IS boats
05:56 PM perry_j1987: oh ya?
05:57 PM perry_j1987: thats why you made your cnc from fiberglass then heh
05:57 PM _unreal_: ye[
05:57 PM perry_j1987: that vacationer boat looks like alot of fun
05:57 PM _unreal_: I work mainly on 80+ foot yachts
05:57 PM _unreal_: fiberglass, hardware tech, you name it
05:57 PM _unreal_: ya that would be considered a weekender
05:57 PM perry_j1987: no
05:58 PM perry_j1987: this is the weekender http://www.stevproj.com/WeekSlide5.jpg haha
05:58 PM _unreal_: omg..
05:58 PM _unreal_: he
05:59 PM perry_j1987: lol
05:59 PM perry_j1987: thats what its called the weekender
05:59 PM perry_j1987: and the first one is the vacationer
05:59 PM _unreal_: My sailboat https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3vL4RqyNgQAaVhLSW5Rb0czaWc
05:59 PM _unreal_: naa the first one is a weekender the smaller is really a day sailer
05:59 PM perry_j1987: i love gaff rigs
06:00 PM _unreal_: Hand built
06:00 PM _unreal_: everything even the sails
06:00 PM perry_j1987: aye i made the sails and a gaff rig for my 18ft canoe years ago
06:00 PM perry_j1987: was a ton of fun to sail
06:00 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3vL4RqyNgQAUGZYcjM1WWpJVWc
06:01 PM _unreal_: hand made tiller arm https://drive.google.com/open?id=1efOaSN1goArgnZ10vc7HnLtssyDGWtz5
06:01 PM _unreal_: custom tiller extension as well
06:02 PM _unreal_: FAB https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3vL4RqyNgQARVRPcTVndjVrOWM
06:03 PM _unreal_: Making my dagger board https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3vL4RqyNgQAQVNoRTJRaEtaVXM
06:03 PM _unreal_: Vaccuum bagged https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3vL4RqyNgQAbEtCMVlEb1lOWXM
06:03 PM _unreal_: two halfs https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3vL4RqyNgQAMXVPZ2JLSEM2UU0
06:04 PM _unreal_: two halfs glued https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3vL4RqyNgQAREpTd05pbXVhVTA
06:04 PM _unreal_: ! and now the sun comes out
06:05 PM _unreal_: florida man I tell ya https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3vL4RqyNgQAdmZXSlRKOGV3Zk0
06:07 PM _unreal_: I assume you have no photos?
06:08 PM perry_j1987: my dagger boards were torch cut steel 4' long out of old I Beams
06:08 PM perry_j1987: no idea where photos were from that time
06:08 PM perry_j1987: it was a ton of fun though
06:10 PM _unreal_: ya my dagger board is about 4' and does not weigh much more then 30 lbs
06:10 PM _unreal_: then again full of red board as you see in the photos
06:10 PM _unreal_: so solid glass. and a lot of faring not shown
06:13 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, but ya I could built that boat given the dedicated time in about a month or less
06:14 PM _unreal_: if I had the molds in NOOOO time out of fiberglass
06:14 PM _unreal_: infact I could infuse it. make it 2x stronger and half the weight
06:19 PM perry_j1987: its a sheet goods design boat
06:19 PM perry_j1987: the vacationer
06:19 PM _unreal_: as in plywood
06:19 PM _unreal_: ?
06:21 PM _unreal_: brb tinkI'm going to go open a coconut
07:05 PM _unreal_: sweet. no major failure problems
07:05 PM _unreal_: just got back was next door picking mangos
07:29 PM perry_j1987: i am in love with my procunier tapping head heh
08:44 PM perry_j1987: I want a small compact cheap (not hacksaw.. .ugh) option for cutting off bar stock
08:45 PM perry_j1987: those little mini bandsaws are expensive
08:50 PM Rab: perry_j1987, metal cutting chop saw? https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-14-in-355-mm-Chop-Saw-D28710/203163991
08:50 PM perry_j1987: I have one of those too
08:50 PM Rab: Takes too long?
08:51 PM perry_j1987: i have an ancient power hacksaw over at the other place that i love using
08:51 PM perry_j1987: contemplating building a mini version for quick stuff around here
09:04 PM Wolfmetalfab is now known as Wolf__
09:13 PM perry_j1987: heh something like this would maybe work https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3658148
09:17 PM jym: perry_j1987: And it didn't take 36 hours to print... https://www.harborfreight.com/horizontal-vertical-metal-cutting-bandsaw-93762.html
09:17 PM perry_j1987: said im looking for a small compact :P
09:17 PM perry_j1987: otherwise i'd go use my beefy power hacksaw
09:18 PM jym: IT's called a jigsaw
09:20 PM jym: perry_j1987: didn't mean to be snarky
09:20 PM perry_j1987: i forgot about jigsaws...
09:22 PM perry_j1987: so been having a lot of fun with threadmilling
09:22 PM _unreal_: hum
09:23 PM Wolf__: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M12-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Sub-Compact-Band-Saw-Tool-Only-2429-20/203349759 I’m thinking about one of these for small barstock cutting
09:24 PM _unreal_: Wolf__, dude get the harber freight one. bigger and cheaper
09:24 PM _unreal_: granted not cordless
09:25 PM Wolf__: I already have the m18 fuel deep cut
09:26 PM _unreal_: well in that case saddle up little doggy
09:27 PM _unreal_: o,O maybe its just me but I feel like most people in here can not full hand type?
09:27 PM _unreal_: considering the amount I type vers others?
09:27 PM _unreal_: and the peed
09:27 PM _unreal_: speed
09:27 PM Wolf__: have 2 of the normal porta-bands and one compact, they are great but overkill at times, cordless cutoff wheel works as well but throws sparks everywhere
09:27 PM Tom_L: perry_j1987, just ran some thread parts this evening
09:29 PM _unreal_: figures, my bear that I was milling before I decided to do a second pass over it. I reved it way up was going good till the last 5min in the job and Z stalled :(
09:29 PM _unreal_: I ended up milling down half the foot on the bear. :(
09:29 PM _unreal_: ARG.
09:31 PM _unreal_: I'm trying to figure out what to do with these motors that I ordered
09:31 PM Tom_L: perry_j1987, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/thread_mills/Mill_Holder10.jpg
09:32 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/thread_mills/Mill_Holder11.jpg
09:34 PM perry_j1987: nice Tom_L threadmilled eh?
09:34 PM Tom_L: both yes
09:34 PM perry_j1987: guys just had a flash/pop
09:35 PM perry_j1987: chips hit hit the plug that was plugged into an outlet across the room..
09:35 PM perry_j1987: fell inbetween the plug and outlet
09:35 PM perry_j1987: wow
09:38 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, what 3d printer is that? In your youtube video what is the make?
09:38 PM perry_j1987: show and time for bed
09:38 PM perry_j1987: cya guys in morning
09:38 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, seeing as how I'm a few thousand miles behind you ;) MSG me if needed
09:39 PM _unreal_: show and time?
09:39 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, where are you?
09:39 PM _unreal_: I feel that those of us that are in the us in this room are few
09:42 PM Wolf__: we are out numbered
09:44 PM _unreal_: Wolf__, at least we got one thing going for us... being american. :) were big where it counts :)
09:44 PM _unreal_: (( :)
09:44 PM jym: hey Wolf__
09:45 PM _unreal_: !! see an admirer
09:45 PM _unreal_: Q#%$&*$%^&^@#Q$%!#@$%^@#$%~!@#$%@Q^@%# AAHHHHHH freaking hell
09:45 PM _unreal_: OMG....
09:45 PM _unreal_: OMG
09:45 PM _unreal_: My daughter made some cute little I love you thing. I hung it on the wall like 3 months ago
09:47 PM _unreal_: small made of popsicle sticks and it just fell on my head. wholylyly hell that scared me.
09:47 PM jym: Did you just use it as a table prop?
09:47 PM _unreal_: OMG... no wonder it fell. she taped the string on with scotch tape
09:48 PM _unreal_: JEZZZZ
09:48 PM _unreal_: my heart is still going 100mph
09:48 PM jym: _unreal_: What do you expect, her to use two part epoxy? nail gun?
09:48 PM _unreal_: brands would be nice
09:48 PM _unreal_: brads
09:48 PM jym: and she's 5yo?
09:49 PM _unreal_: 10
09:49 PM jym: 10yo with a nail gun...
09:49 PM _unreal_: :)
09:49 PM _unreal_: got to teach em young
09:49 PM jym: Did you show/teach her how to use a nail gun?
09:49 PM _unreal_: O,O.. maybe
09:50 PM jym: Then it's your own damn falt
09:50 PM jym: fault*
09:50 PM _unreal_: sigh. 10:45pm and I have to work tomorrow
09:50 PM _unreal_: arg.
09:50 PM jym: coffee pots, many
09:51 PM _unreal_: screw coffee, i have not finished drinking yet
09:51 PM _unreal_: :)
09:51 PM jym: lol
09:51 PM _unreal_: drinking homemade mead right now
09:51 PM _unreal_: I made pumpkin and mango. mango from the backyard
09:54 PM _unreal_: FREAKING hell that messed with me
09:55 PM _unreal_: My buzz is like gone
09:55 PM _unreal_: nothing like an OUT of the blue random object falling on your head
09:56 PM jym: _unreal_: Ask her to make you another one
09:57 PM _unreal_: nothing worng with it, the scotch tape holding the string on lete go
09:57 PM _unreal_: and I cant ask her right now. she's :( at her mothers for a few weeks
09:57 PM jym: text her?
09:57 PM _unreal_: rare time her mother takes her
09:57 PM jym: ah
09:57 PM _unreal_: she's 10
09:57 PM jym: so
09:59 PM _unreal_: sigh...
09:59 PM _unreal_: trying to get the gumption up to take the controller cover off of my CNC and wire in this new spindle speed controller I have. probelm is that there is a jumper. for manual or PWM input
10:00 PM _unreal_: I dont know if I have any two posision switches
10:00 PM _unreal_: and I dont feel like getting off of my ass going up ionto the attic where my pile of electronics BS is
10:00 PM _unreal_: sigh
10:00 PM _unreal_: maybe its the alcohol talking :)
10:01 PM _unreal_: or as my father would describe it. yeast piss
10:29 PM _unreal_: just found my old router...
10:29 PM _unreal_: forgot I had it, Bringing that into work thats for sure
10:59 PM skunkworks: router can be so many things in todays world...
11:02 PM roycroft: a traffic cop telling people which way to go is a router
11:03 PM Wolf__: magic box with blinky lights that makes the interwebs work
11:09 PM roycroft: when i'm at work i think of that kind of router
11:09 PM roycroft: when i'm not at work i think of the machines i have that make nice edges on pieces of wood
11:12 PM Wolf__: I’m wondering if I can turn one in to a edge beveler for welding
11:14 PM roycroft: i made a 45 degree table for my new belt grinder
11:14 PM roycroft: it works amazingly well for that
11:15 PM roycroft: the only problem is when you need to grind on parts too big to hold up to the belt grinder
11:15 PM Wolf__: I need a tool that moves to the work, new roll off truck bodies have mounting plates that are 3 feet long 3/8” plate
11:15 PM roycroft: a sliding table for a belt grinder could be very useful
11:16 PM roycroft: i don't have room to make one for mine in its current location
11:18 PM Wolf__: current method is have one of the low skillset guys grind the bevel in
11:21 PM Wolf__: I also want a huck bolt gun but $$$
11:35 PM jym: Ssounds like you want what I made for my belt sander
11:35 PM jym: Just a block of wood that now feeds the material too
11:36 PM jym: works damn well surprisingly