#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 06 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:11 AM _unreal_: There finally got aworking profile
12:15 AM _unreal_: pocketing
12:17 AM _unreal_: makes it so nice to be able to see EXACTLY whats going on and to inspect other areas of the machine if needed
12:21 AM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=17bzs0MxvgGTeBPOZkX1hfkQsGf2SuQKO
12:39 AM Valen: there's onshape, it's 100% browser and I believe has cam these days
12:39 AM Valen: _unreal_:
02:24 AM Deejay: moin
05:14 AM jthornton: morning
07:36 AM Tom_L: morning
07:41 AM Tom_L: http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201907040011.html
07:49 AM SpeedEvil: :)
08:57 AM gloops: few box plinths cutting today, nothing too drastic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB29EICnxUY&feature=youtu.be
10:12 AM perry_j1987: what is it?
10:40 AM gloops: whats what?
10:50 AM perry_j1987: what you were making
10:55 AM gloops: oh, thats plinths for some small wooden boxes, ive been trying to cnc-ise traditional made stuff
11:00 AM gloops: not many work with wood in here so not much interest in router stuff
11:05 AM gloops: so i get a plinth with double splines on each mitre - very strong, shaped bottom, obviously doesnt look much pre sanded
11:05 AM gloops: https://imgbb.com/
11:06 AM gloops: pretty time consuming to make manually, and gets very tedious to make a lot
11:06 AM gloops: this way all i have to do is load the router, assembly takes seconds, i even cut the splines on the router
11:06 AM _unreal_: onshape?
11:07 AM gloops: vectric
11:08 AM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=17bzs0MxvgGTeBPOZkX1hfkQsGf2SuQKO
11:09 AM gloops: is this your machine _unreal_?
11:15 AM Loetmichel: *hmpf* just refilled the window wash bottle on the car... tried it: front works, back: nothing... look at the system more closely: the pump motor for rear is THAT much rusted that it bursted open the plastic enclosure of the pump. :-( *orders new pump* Another 3 days wait. At least its cheap, 10 eur for a BMW part is surprising ;) (thats what you get when you buy oooold cars...:-( )
11:17 AM gloops: i took an 04 ford focus for MOT on wednesday - straight pass, nothing at all to do
11:18 AM Tom_L: gloops you showed us a blank page
11:18 AM Loetmichel: gloops: thats maybe because MOT is a joke compared to TÜV ;)
11:18 AM gloops: did i
11:18 AM gloops: so i did
11:19 AM Tom_L: anybody can make one of those
11:19 AM gloops: https://ibb.co/MhnDkdd not much to see anyway
11:20 AM Tom_L: and you're routing the bottom edge?
11:20 AM Tom_L: time saver for sure
11:20 AM gloops: but it is pretty satisfying to just pick the bits off the router and assemble those - takes ages manually and very boring
11:20 AM Tom_L: do you cut the horizontal profile too?
11:21 AM gloops: the horizontal profile i did on spindle moulder, just shove a few lengths through each time - that is something the router cant improve on speedwise
11:21 AM Tom_L: right, i just wondered if you purchased 'trim' or made them
11:22 AM gloops: its a panel raising block i use for that shape
11:22 AM Tom_L: one of these days i'll have to make another of these: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/toybox.jpg
11:22 AM Tom_L: got another niece on the way
11:23 AM gloops: that looks well, some work goes into those
11:23 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/toybox1.jpg
11:23 AM Tom_L: i planned ahead
11:24 AM gloops: lol, traditionally your supposed to sketch that with a 2 inch pencil on the back of a cig packet
11:24 AM Tom_L: it wasn't too bad
11:24 AM Tom_L: i made the joints etc as simple as i could
11:25 AM gloops: yeah joints are the time thing, i was looking at one on ebay someone is selling, he'd devised a pretty neat way of making a toy box with very few joints to cut, the sides like held one another together the way he'd done it
11:26 AM gloops: just screws that couldnt be seen
11:26 AM Tom_L: my kids had ones that slid under the bed like drawers
11:27 AM Tom_L: they'd pull em out and sit in em and play all day
11:27 AM Tom_L: i did those with dovetail joints
11:28 AM roycroft: dovetails are pretty kid-proof
11:28 AM gloops: well if it stands up to kids its passed the test
11:29 AM Tom_L: they outgrew them so i passed them on to other relatives
11:29 AM Tom_L: don't let them find out you can make stuf btw...
11:30 AM gloops: my mrs was posting pics to her mates in a facebook group they have - i put a stop to that
11:31 AM Tom_L: unless they bring cash
11:31 AM gloops: thats the thing, you feel obliged to do them cheap - and the other thing they never want the exact thing youre making, its always - can you make me one like that but with....
11:32 AM Tom_L: sure can $$$$
11:32 AM gloops: lol
11:32 AM Tom_L: women are seldom content with what you show them the first time
11:33 AM gloops: true they shouldnt have much choice really
11:34 AM Tom_L: that's why it takes so long at the store.. they have too many things to choose from
11:34 AM Tom_L: men's sections are usually 1/4th as big
11:37 AM perry_j1987: "yep... this covers my butt... mission accomplished"
11:37 AM perry_j1987: "no which way to the tools" - where you spend same amount of time as the women in their store heh
11:42 AM gloops: bespoke = double price easyily
11:42 AM gloops: easily
11:43 AM gloops: faffing around with phone calls and people, changing drawings, sourcing different materials
11:43 AM gloops: id rather do - this is the product, take it or leave it
11:59 AM roycroft: if you've developed flexible design tools bespoke products should not inherently double the cost
11:59 AM roycroft: it's the waffling and changes on the customer side that can realistically add cost
12:00 PM roycroft: if your fee structure puts a limit on design time, and has a rate for changes, then it's on the customer to determine the final cost
12:07 PM Tom_L: or: here's the product. here are the options you can add.
12:08 PM Tom_L: ok, mowed and showered. what's next?
12:11 PM gloops: a gallon of fluid intake
12:11 PM Tom_L: that was part of the job
12:21 PM * roycroft has a million things to do, but thinks he'll start making drawers for his grinder stand
12:21 PM roycroft: i need to start putting things away before i can do a lot of the other things on the list
12:21 PM roycroft: and drawers will help with that
12:38 PM perry_j1987: i need to make and sell enough stuff to buy myself a paramotor
12:48 PM _unreal_: gloops, yes it is my cnc
12:50 PM gloops: perry_j1987 and then you wont need money anymore haha
12:50 PM perry_j1987: they look like a ton of fun
12:50 PM gloops: so you got it up and running _unreal_ nice one
12:50 PM gloops: old mate of mine has started making paragliders
12:51 PM roycroft: be careful with that paramotor
12:51 PM roycroft: it will put your brain out
12:51 PM gloops: https://www.facebook.com/martin.keenan.58
12:52 PM gloops: https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61505751_2525129767499550_4751713170731565056_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQlgsB6fY08wLrjMSUPI2rDP0Wq1T0Pbnk7aINQ_D3-DeMdgxWcW63CstLp9h6pcOVE&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=a55a6d335c7756bc15f71f20076830e7&oe=5DB8EC85
12:53 PM gloops: you wouldnt get me in that
12:53 PM gloops: https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61789448_2516299108382616_8321673284038950912_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQlszx_KOccZtrmk0j_TyhuHG1vz-XVOIiGQuwU1CBE65SEnEC5rgIk41DhsvVThj0M&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=38a67bfa979964f5d918e61e705400e3&oe=5DBC46FB
12:53 PM gloops: dont know if non friends can see
12:53 PM gloops: that is a shopping trolley
12:54 PM _unreal_: gloops, yep up and running
12:54 PM _unreal_: I'm at a tuning state now
12:54 PM _unreal_: solving its working ablities etc...
12:55 PM gloops: all good fun
12:55 PM _unreal_: it clearly has a lot more play in it then I'd like to have but that has more to do with how I built the Z
12:55 PM gloops: you have a similar way with wiring to me lol
12:55 PM perry_j1987: not sure i'd like a trike
12:55 PM _unreal_: you have to admit for a totaly TOTALLY from scratch build
12:56 PM _unreal_: it came ok rather OK
12:56 PM perry_j1987: i was looking at the flat top paramotors
12:56 PM perry_j1987: looks alot nicer with the built in chair so your not starting flat on your butt heh
12:56 PM _unreal_: The machine its self is big enough that I could rebuilt most of its parts to be far more accurate
12:57 PM _unreal_: really its my Z bearing system has flex :(
12:57 PM _unreal_: not much but enough that anything I do milling wise would take a few passes to do a clean finish pass
12:57 PM gloops: very surprising how beams flex under a few pounds of pressure - when that there leverage kicks in
12:58 PM _unreal_: In hind sight id rather have purchased a mill but then again I started building this thing before my divorce and only just now got it going.. so 2011 ish
12:58 PM _unreal_: gloops, yep
12:58 PM gloops: lol, i said id never build another router
12:58 PM gloops: that passes though
12:59 PM _unreal_: the major flex is in the 5/16 bolts that hold the bearings
12:59 PM _unreal_: on Z
01:00 PM _unreal_: do any of you use KICAD
01:01 PM gloops: the spindle could go back 2 inch at least to the z, that is a boatload of leverage there
01:01 PM _unreal_: it cant move back at all
01:01 PM _unreal_: not on my machine
01:01 PM gloops: ideally the cutter wants to drop right between the X bearings
01:02 PM _unreal_: I take that back I could move it back 3/16th at most before the CAN from the motor would hit the threaded rod
01:02 PM _unreal_: ya
01:02 PM _unreal_: Hence where most of my flex comes from
01:02 PM gloops: these things dont seem important, we all say - nah that wont make much difference, but that is the difference
01:03 PM _unreal_: though when I was building the machine I had almost zero money and then my Xwife out of the blue deciding to go fuck her life up fucking up are life and are daughters.... I never had the chance to make a good design. :(
01:04 PM _unreal_: My goal was to use it to make some side money back then.
01:04 PM _unreal_: Never got the chance. then I was full time solo daddy
01:04 PM _unreal_: sigh
01:04 PM gloops: well you cant just back out now haha
01:04 PM _unreal_: nope
01:04 PM gloops: this is only the mkI
01:04 PM _unreal_: so its working good now
01:05 PM _unreal_: mk1?
01:05 PM gloops: yeah youll be sorting the few teething problems out?
01:05 PM _unreal_: not sure what you mean by mk1
01:06 PM gloops: the first inception
01:06 PM gloops: just needs improvements - mkII maybe
01:06 PM _unreal_: AHHH ok.... see my motion control board IS the mk1
01:06 PM _unreal_: planetcnc mk1
01:07 PM _unreal_: and there boards are mk1 2 3 and 4
01:07 PM _unreal_: heh
01:09 PM gloops: one thing, if you did want to make new parts - you got a machine to cut them now
01:09 PM _unreal_: Thats the plan
01:10 PM _unreal_: something I want to do is get a custom PCB built to use these BLDC motors i have.
01:10 PM gloops: it looks to be cutting ok anyway in the vid
01:10 PM _unreal_: I can get BLDC motors offten totaly free
01:12 PM _unreal_: for example da23dbb-m201c
01:14 PM _unreal_: ?
01:17 PM gloops: how does the control with that work then?
01:20 PM _unreal_: I work in the marine industry working on yachts. you know how they have the satellite domes on top of the mega yachts....
01:20 PM _unreal_: they toss those all the time
01:21 PM _unreal_: most use the same basic parts. BLDC motors like that that I just posted and the same motor controller almost always
01:21 PM _unreal_: a3936sed
01:21 PM gloops: but fewer steps per rotation?
01:25 PM _unreal_: yes I dont know how many but its a "servo"
01:25 PM _unreal_: likely 3 to 6 steps per rotation but high torque
01:25 PM _unreal_: and capable of high RPM with high torque
01:25 PM _unreal_: some have encoders on them
01:26 PM _unreal_: da23gbb-13eu2c
01:27 PM gloops: never look a gift horse in the mouth, as they say
01:28 PM _unreal_: wish I could got ahold of some of the small domes again some times they have these nice nema17 6 wire steppers with built in encoders
01:29 PM _unreal_: lin engineering 4218m-58d-03
01:29 PM gloops: i got 2 italian nema 34s off ebay for £25, still never got round to fitting them
01:32 PM _unreal_: I take that back they are 4 wire with opto encoder disks
02:40 PM _unreal_: WOW that is a significant difference. I just finished swapping in this PSU "it" is/was a 12v CIG outlet for a car. it was the PSU for some long since failed car device. but its 12v input and 4.5v output. and it has a DC/DC. after looking it up its a DCDC that takes upto 48v input. and outputs based on the sense resistor. so its default is exactly what I need. So I just swapped out the LM317 OVEN. for this thing. the light
02:40 PM _unreal_: on my cnc is now brighter and nothing is making heat
02:40 PM _unreal_: infact the LIGHT is even cooler
02:40 PM _unreal_: and briighter.. I find that odd but hay what ever
03:41 PM Deejay: gn8
03:49 PM _unreal_: I'm designing a STUPID simple touch probe design. only a few partsand should be super relisable by design. and very very easy to build.
04:12 PM Tom_L: _unreal_ what stepper drivers do you have on it?
04:13 PM Tom_L: going from 12 to 48v _would_ make a significant difference
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: "LM317 OVEN" but now you have a noisy supply, not a clean linear regulator :(
04:22 PM Tom_L: always a tradeoff
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: 12V to 4.5V is quite a drop for a high current linear supplky
04:25 PM Tom_L: lots of heat
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: I've had customers insist on linear supplies for applications like audio and intercom
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: they can also hear distortions not measurable with modern earth technologies :)
04:27 PM Tom_L: maybe they're not from here
04:33 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, have on what
04:33 PM _unreal_: oh the 48v is my spindle psu
04:33 PM Tom_L: oh
04:33 PM Tom_L: i thought you bumped up the steppers
04:33 PM _unreal_: 48v 4.5amp
04:33 PM _unreal_: no
04:34 PM _unreal_: I could go upto 48v stepper but I dont know I'd want to go that hight. besides if i was going to bump I'd bump to 36v or 38v
04:34 PM _unreal_: I have a hobbycnc motor driver
04:34 PM _unreal_: but the motion control board I forget what it supports upto for voltage
04:34 PM _unreal_: would be nice to up the voltage on the steppers
04:35 PM _unreal_: but its ok at 24v
04:35 PM Tom_L: yeah i think mine go up to 80v but i'm running them at 48 right now
04:47 PM _unreal_: good lord. I need to get some different bits. I have so much play with that one trying to mill a PCB its stupid
04:47 PM _unreal_: then again that bit was not designed to do what I was using it for anyways :)
04:48 PM _unreal_: saddly I ahve little to no fine tip dremel bits on hand :(
04:48 PM _unreal_: and I dont feel like going to the store but I'll have to if I want anything :(
04:48 PM _unreal_: damn
04:48 PM _unreal_: Have to get up off my lazy ass
04:49 PM perry_j1987: i use burr bits for doing pcb edge milling
04:49 PM perry_j1987: works nice
04:49 PM perry_j1987: v-bits for engraving the pcb
04:50 PM Tom_L: quite a bit to ask for on a .125" cutter
05:13 PM _unreal_: I just ordered these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CCRK51C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
05:13 PM _unreal_: and these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C6TCXJ9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
05:14 PM _unreal_: now I just need to get kicad figured out on exporting the DRILL files
05:14 PM _unreal_: clearly its faster to ETCH a pcb and CNC mill the holes
05:17 PM perry_j1987: na milling is fast
05:17 PM perry_j1987: use brass pins from sewing store for vias for super quick
05:17 PM perry_j1987: or you can cnc the holes and plate and then etch
05:17 PM perry_j1987: all sorts of options
05:31 PM gloops: not used the rotary burrs but the chinese endmills are fine for wood
05:32 PM gloops: (just a random irrelevant factoid)
05:33 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, do you use a touch probe at all?
05:34 PM _unreal_: I just finished designing one in inkscape. now I need to convert it into 3D just dont want to reboot into windows :(
05:34 PM _unreal_: I'm thinking of running to lows/home depot to get some dremel bits so I can buz this stupid PCB
05:35 PM _unreal_: What do you guys think? https://drive.google.com/open?id=1o6zbK449plEHfkdAJsTI2sTEkf1ScHpk
05:36 PM _unreal_: its only a 2D view but just the same
05:37 PM _unreal_: ?
05:41 PM gloops: z touch probe?
05:42 PM gloops: $3 from china
05:44 PM perry_j1987: i do
05:44 PM perry_j1987: i wouldnt live without one for doing pcb
05:44 PM perry_j1987: but
05:45 PM perry_j1987: you dont need a probe for pcb
05:45 PM perry_j1987: just use the pcb itself to probe so you have zero offset
05:54 PM _unreal_: gloops, ?
05:55 PM _unreal_: show me a $3 china 3d digitizing touch probe
05:55 PM _unreal_: if I have the choice between a $3 chana and building I'm going to buy it
05:55 PM perry_j1987: i think he was refering to touch plat
05:55 PM perry_j1987: plate
05:55 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, I figured
05:55 PM _unreal_: but one never knows
05:56 PM _unreal_: perry_j1987, did you look at my inkscape drawing?
05:57 PM perry_j1987: i dont have inkscape anymore
05:57 PM _unreal_: TOP/BOTTOM and rings would be acrylic or plexy. or star board.... and then the two PCB's the idea is the top PCB has the threaded balls
05:57 PM perry_j1987: it didnt open in browser to look at
05:57 PM _unreal_: your browser may show it?
05:57 PM perry_j1987: i tried it didnt in browser
05:59 PM perry_j1987: one sec downloaded the file opening with illustrator
05:59 PM perry_j1987: that looks like a good candidate for 3d printing parts for
06:00 PM _unreal_: uploading png file
06:00 PM _unreal_: 2 PCB'S
06:00 PM _unreal_: I cant believe no one has ever designed it like this before
06:01 PM _unreal_: I mean probe just needs a standard rubber gromet
06:01 PM perry_j1987: i mean for the housing parts
06:01 PM _unreal_: that to
06:01 PM _unreal_: I dont have a 3d printer :?
06:01 PM _unreal_: been toying with getting one but have not seen one that I have fallen in love with
06:02 PM _unreal_: so you like my design concept?
06:02 PM perry_j1987: you have a 3 axis mill
06:02 PM perry_j1987: strap a hotend to it heh
06:02 PM _unreal_: true
06:03 PM _unreal_: do you follow how my design works?
06:04 PM perry_j1987: ya
06:04 PM perry_j1987: 3 contact points
06:04 PM perry_j1987: one breaks when bumped etc
06:05 PM _unreal_: heh I've shown it to a hand full of people and most need me to explain it
06:05 PM _unreal_: they have all been stuck on the dual contactors with a metal bar sticking out to make the contact mentality
06:05 PM perry_j1987: i can follow along pretty much anything the only thing that alludes me is proper feeds and speeds that wont break bits on me haha
06:07 PM _unreal_: !! ditto
06:07 PM _unreal_: back in a few running to lows/home dot to get some dremel bits
06:07 PM perry_j1987: so far the only answer i've come up with is.... i need to spend half million dollars for a "rigid" machine to solve the problem
06:07 PM Tom_L: shoot for ~ .0008" chip load
06:08 PM Tom_L: and you'll be safe on it
06:08 PM Tom_L: maybe .001" in alum
06:08 PM _unreal_: I've been trying to get this converted to gcode https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QIzBvaQ9ExYMFmFxOvvmBTlkAyjYYJN_ and drill file
06:08 PM _unreal_: KICAD file
06:09 PM _unreal_: ok back in 30+ min getting bits and maybe alcohol
06:09 PM _unreal_: I may be in south florida but its been light shit raining and off and on T storms. was planning on taking my sail boat out :(
06:10 PM _unreal_: the PCB is my design for an easy LIMIT switch system using telephone cords.
06:10 PM _unreal_: T phone cords can take a real beating so makes perfect sense to be a signal wire
06:11 PM _unreal_: My board design has 2 options in it, one is a solder bridge pad to make it a fixed working design. the other has a JST header for a remote toggle switch to enable/disable limit switches. makes it much easyer to just disable limit switch if I hit one
06:11 PM _unreal_: Other wise my software wants me to "home" to get off the limit
07:14 PM net|: would hemp fiber make good gears ?
07:15 PM net|: would be neat to have the strength comparable to steel or aluminum.
07:36 PM _unreal_: ok got din and purchased a bunch of parts and didt do alcohol go figure
07:37 PM _unreal_: net|, ?
07:55 PM _unreal_: !!!!!! DO I KNOW YOU!!!!!
07:55 PM _unreal_: I just sat on some scissors
08:20 PM * roycroft was always taught that running with scissors is unsafe, apparently that is wrong
08:20 PM roycroft: it is sitting with scissors that is unsafe
08:21 PM XXCoder: remind me of one time nephew grabbed scissors with hands
08:21 PM XXCoder: he was "scissoring" with both hands, my bro had hard time getting it back
08:21 PM XXCoder: ended up with tip of pinkie cut off
08:22 PM XXCoder: not a lot but could be worse
08:22 PM XXCoder: not end of finger, but the fingerprint tip
08:22 PM perry_j1987: i remember one time shortly after meeting my new stepbrother he was trying to cook a dijorno pizza he grabbed a knife to use
08:23 PM perry_j1987: he didnt udnerstand the plastic peal'ed apart
08:23 PM perry_j1987: lol cut his hand right open
08:23 PM roycroft: i would have grabbed the laddie's wrists, not the scissors
08:23 PM XXCoder: thats why he did
08:23 PM XXCoder: boy was fast
08:24 PM XXCoder: *what
08:24 PM roycroft: baseball bat on the head?
08:24 PM XXCoder: boy was like 4 years something. hes 18 now
08:27 PM perry_j1987: so i got myself a new endmill today
08:27 PM perry_j1987: it is amazing
08:27 PM perry_j1987: i cut a the first test in some scrap brass
08:28 PM perry_j1987: its so shiny of a cut i can see a rainbow prism effect in it
08:29 PM perry_j1987: i've never experienced nice cuts before heh
08:29 PM perry_j1987: so im very excited
08:29 PM perry_j1987: is this what normally happens when you spend 20 bucks on a single endmill vs 10 for 9.99 :P
08:30 PM Tom_shop: possibly so
08:30 PM XXCoder: likely
08:31 PM perry_j1987: https://amzn.to/2JsWlYj this is what i got
08:32 PM XXCoder: looks like actual carbide
08:32 PM XXCoder: fuck. tariffs on solar panels
08:33 PM XXCoder: orange tariff man is owned by coal
08:33 PM roycroft: that's actually one sector where tariffs are warranted
08:34 PM roycroft: the right like to make a big deal out of the stimulus grants that went south when the american solar panel companies failed
08:34 PM XXCoder: why?
08:34 PM roycroft: but they're not honest about the reason
08:34 PM _unreal_: yep setting the code to 0.01 lifts for safe move was a bit foolish
08:34 PM _unreal_: :)
08:34 PM roycroft: the instand obama announced the grants to develop domestic solar technology the chinese government started heavily subsidising its own solar industry
08:34 PM _unreal_: back to 1.0
08:34 PM roycroft: and they have been dumping product at a loss ever since
08:35 PM XXCoder: maybe. sucks though
08:35 PM roycroft: solyndra had a sound business model
08:35 PM XXCoder: i invested in company that would make much thinner solar panels
08:35 PM roycroft: and would have been a very safe investment
08:35 PM roycroft: had the chinese not dropped the price of their panels by 30% overnight
08:35 PM XXCoder: thinner= much cheaper.
08:36 PM XXCoder: no kerf wastage also
08:36 PM _unreal_: I dont think will be a usable PCB
08:36 PM XXCoder: but when will they start making product? dunno
08:36 PM _unreal_: not using this dremel it anyways
08:36 PM _unreal_: My traces are way to fine
08:37 PM perry_j1987: what are the trace width
08:37 PM roycroft: dremels are for tool collectors, not tool users :)
08:37 PM _unreal_: more then fine for laser/blue pcb transfer paper though
08:37 PM _unreal_: roycroft, you are kidding right
08:37 PM Wolf__: roycroft: well that explains why BP solar closed up in Frederick MD then
08:37 PM roycroft: no, i am not
08:37 PM _unreal_: people who work on boats use dremels non stop
08:37 PM roycroft: dremels are absolute shite
08:37 PM Wolf__: dremel is juck
08:37 PM roycroft: the proxxon stuff is better
08:38 PM _unreal_: ya go to any marina
08:38 PM Wolf__: fordom or ^
08:38 PM roycroft: i have a foredom tool, which is what real tool users use :)
08:38 PM * roycroft worked in a boat factory for several years, and never once saw a dremel
08:38 PM _unreal_: dremel ( like tools) are the most common for doing gelcoat repair and cutting out accesses in fiberglass using carbide rotory rasps
08:39 PM roycroft: we used air-powered die grinders for that kind of work
08:39 PM _unreal_: roycroft, thats big repair
08:39 PM XXCoder: ah yes rayton solar
08:39 PM Wolf__: I was going to say, sounds like work for air pencil grinder
08:39 PM _unreal_: gelcoat repairs like spider cracks are done with dremels and diamond ball end tips
08:40 PM roycroft: only by people who like repurchasing their tools every day
08:40 PM _unreal_: and cone stone bits
08:40 PM _unreal_: roycroft, no
08:40 PM _unreal_: I have the same dremel I've been using for the past 20 years
08:40 PM _unreal_: the key is to blow it out when done with compressed air. and NEVER spin the tool using the air power.
08:40 PM Wolf__: guess a dremel would work for gel coat work because you wont notice the bearings being toasted =P
08:41 PM roycroft: the key is to use a tool with a sealed ball bearing spindle, and not bushings or open bearings
08:42 PM Wolf__: reminds me, I need to replace the bearing in my milwaukee rotary tool
08:42 PM roycroft: you can buy a die grinder from hf for the same price as a dremel, and it will last 100x as long
08:43 PM _unreal_: roycroft, now i know your full of sheet
08:43 PM roycroft: or maybe you have the one magic dremel :)
08:43 PM XXCoder: https://www.startengine.com/rayton-solar if you guys are curious
08:43 PM roycroft: they're actually tolerable if all you are doing is pecking with them
08:44 PM _unreal_: HF "dremel like tools" are total crap
08:44 PM XXCoder: 3 microns vs 200
08:44 PM roycroft: but as soon as you put a radial load on a dremel it will fail magnificently
08:44 PM _unreal_: like most of the cheap tools they sell and YES I have a lot of them
08:44 PM roycroft: an air die grinder is not a "dremel like tool"
08:44 PM XXCoder: by 200 microns they mean 400 since half of it is cut off by kerf
08:44 PM roycroft: i'm sure hf sell an electric motor thing that is dremel-like
08:44 PM roycroft: and i'd bet it would fail even faster than an actual dremel
08:46 PM roycroft: i have owned probably a dozen actual dremel-brand rotary tools
08:46 PM roycroft: none of them lasted any appreciable amount of time
08:46 PM _unreal_: Oh purchased a new dremel bit today "dremel bit 664 dr"
08:46 PM roycroft: i've had my foredom flex-shaft tool for about 15 years
08:46 PM roycroft: and it still works as well as it did on day one
08:46 PM _unreal_: dual ended drill bit wil dimond dust on it
08:47 PM _unreal_: 1.6 and 2.1mm
08:47 PM _unreal_: double ended
08:47 PM Wolf__: roycroft: I think this is what you had in mind for HF grinder? https://www.harborfreight.com/18-in-air-micro-die-grinder-kit-60244.html
08:47 PM _unreal_: so its a drill bit and a side cutter
08:47 PM roycroft: something like that, wolf__
08:48 PM _unreal_: would I have one just like that only made by "grip" its rated for 68,000 RPM the one I have
08:48 PM roycroft: if all you're cutting with the dremel is balsa wood or plastic i guess it will probably last a while
08:49 PM _unreal_: roycroft, I cut fiberglass, redboard, G10 and stuch stuff
08:50 PM _unreal_: baaaa.... these bits I just got for trying to do this PCB are loosing there tip fast
08:50 PM _unreal_: glad I only purchased one
08:50 PM roycroft: dremel tooling is way overpriced and mediocre quality
08:51 PM roycroft: the only reason i ever use it is because it's the weekend and i need something right now
08:51 PM roycroft: i can't imagine trying to route a pcb with dremel tooling
08:51 PM roycroft: especially in a dremel spindle :)
08:51 PM _unreal_: My spindle is not dremel made.
08:51 PM _unreal_: roycroft, on THAT i agree with you
08:51 PM roycroft: that's good
08:52 PM _unreal_: dremels FINE spindle head is typically not that accurate
08:52 PM _unreal_: when spinning on center with out any wobble
08:53 PM _unreal_: ya its lost its sharp tip
08:53 PM roycroft: most dremels i've owned have bushed shafts, not bearing shafts
08:53 PM perry_j1987: i need a chip shield of some kind
08:53 PM roycroft: so there's heaps of built-in runout out of the package
08:53 PM perry_j1987: not plesant standing at the mill when its pelting you with chips heh
08:53 PM _unreal_: roycroft, dremel has never made a bushing shaft bearing tool
08:53 PM _unreal_: EVER
08:54 PM _unreal_: always ball bearing
08:54 PM roycroft: if that is true (and i do not believe you), then the bearings do a damn good job of all going missing when the tool fails
08:54 PM _unreal_: show a picture then or give the model number
08:54 PM _unreal_: this I have to see
08:55 PM roycroft: you would have to rumming through my trash of 15+ years ago
08:55 PM roycroft: rummage
08:55 PM roycroft: because all those old dremels are long, long gone
08:55 PM _unreal_: right.......
08:55 PM _unreal_: dremel has never made a dremel tool with sleeve bearings
08:55 PM roycroft: as i said, once i got the foredom flex shaft tool i had zero interest in ever touching a dremel again
08:55 PM _unreal_: EVER
08:55 PM roycroft: if i *have* to use something more portable i'll get a proxxon
08:59 PM _unreal_: roycroft, then prove it find it on line. every dremel tool dremel has produced is listed on line so show me the sleeve bearing version "you claim" to have had. :) please
09:00 PM _unreal_: as to this PCB I'm torn..... I'm running the part again and off set the Z a few thou lower..
09:00 PM roycroft: i really am not intersted in "proving" anything
09:00 PM roycroft: you are obviously very antagonistic
09:00 PM roycroft: and argumetive
09:00 PM roycroft: so i'll just leave you to believe what you will
09:00 PM * roycroft has better things to do
09:01 PM roycroft: i'll just say, honestly, that when i expressed my dislike of dremel based on long experience with their products i had no idea that you have such a love affair with them
09:01 PM roycroft: it really was not personal
09:02 PM roycroft: it was about dremel, not you
09:02 PM * roycroft is done now :)
09:02 PM XXCoder: aww was storing rant up for winter warming ;)
09:02 PM XXCoder: kidding
09:03 PM _unreal_: heh
09:05 PM roycroft: so i did not get very far on my drawers today
09:06 PM roycroft: i needed a sheet of 19mm baltic birch plywood, and did not have time to get it during the week
09:06 PM perry_j1987: too much information
09:06 PM perry_j1987: we expect you to be fully clothed when you come to IRC
09:06 PM roycroft: i was willing to pay retail, but none of the consumer lumber yards who are open on saturday carry it
09:06 PM roycroft: so i guess i have to wait until next week to get that sheet
09:07 PM perry_j1987: might try calling around to some cabinet shops might sell you a sheet for cash
09:07 PM roycroft: i also could not find full sheets of 1/4" birch plywood - only 2'x4' sheets, and they are way too expensive
09:07 PM perry_j1987: if you find one working on the weekend
09:07 PM roycroft: i'll just go to my normal sheet good yard on monday or tuesday, where i have a wholesale account
09:08 PM roycroft: i'll pay ~$45, vs. ~$75 if i had to pay retail
09:16 PM _unreal_: My really cool stepping motors arrived today
09:17 PM _unreal_: PG22L71.7-20P020L0-02
09:18 PM _unreal_: http://g2motion.com/6PM_GB_Sync-_P_L_S_.pdf this tells how to read the That number
09:18 PM _unreal_: but more or less its a tiny stepper. with a 71.1 gear ratio, 18degree steps bipolar and the one I have has an encoder on the back :)
09:20 PM _unreal_: the entire motor is like 3" long not including shaft. and it has a planary gear on it.
09:20 PM _unreal_: I wante dto get 4 but I kept dragging my heels when I went to purchase them ther were only 3 left so I got them.
09:21 PM _unreal_: I'm thinking they may be very nice for a small machine in the near future
09:27 PM _unreal_: wow found cached info. so these motors can produce 0.35nM or 3 lb - in
09:28 PM _unreal_: ok so 50oz-in
09:28 PM _unreal_: MAN thats tiny :)
09:28 PM _unreal_: the motor for what it can do
09:29 PM gregcnc: well 71.1:1
09:31 PM _unreal_: ;)
09:41 PM _unreal_: Please make it go away
09:42 PM _unreal_: this netbook I'm using to control the cnc machine is FINE for the cnc machine but general USE omg........ make it go away
09:42 PM _unreal_: win10 single core 2gb ram atom cpu
09:42 PM _unreal_: BLAAAAAA
09:42 PM _unreal_: still waiting for it to load google drive
09:53 PM _unreal_: I think you guys will like this
09:53 PM _unreal_: http://maslowmakercam.000webhostapp.com/
09:54 PM _unreal_: one thing to remember. after setting up all of your cam operations. click "calculate all" IF you dont you will not be able to generate and export final GCODE
09:54 PM _unreal_: took me awhile to figure it out and only ONE youtube video talks about it
09:54 PM _unreal_: makes it VERY easy to setup a tool path
10:09 PM _unreal_: ?
10:33 PM XXCoder: flash player.
10:39 PM _unreal_: if you toy with it a bit its STUPID simple
10:39 PM _unreal_: make shape in SVG. give it options and export gcode
10:41 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, here is my touch probe CODE https://drive.google.com/open?id=1S1jHAqz3x1Faq2qxIuKsokEJnwgqcskH
10:41 PM _unreal_: I have not made it yet but should be every thing needed to make my PCB desiogn
10:41 PM _unreal_: design
10:41 PM _unreal_: :)
10:42 PM XXCoder: nice
10:56 PM _unreal_: !#@$!#@$%!@#4 way off set
10:56 PM _unreal_: I knew I forgot to do something
10:57 PM XXCoder: lol
10:57 PM XXCoder: thats why i always walk at start, to make sure I didnt forget something
11:01 PM _unreal_: easy to fix just I have to DRAG shit around in that web program
11:01 PM _unreal_: and re-export
11:01 PM _unreal_: but you like?
11:01 PM XXCoder: i dont want to sign in to read so dunn o
11:02 PM _unreal_: there we go much better
11:02 PM _unreal_: sign in?
11:02 PM _unreal_: oh OH google
11:16 PM roycroft: debian 10 was released this evening
11:26 PM _unreal_: OH HELLL YA!!! just did a TEST cut over the botched PCB milling. and my PCB bottom is sweet I do need to adjust the size on one of the parts though :( I killed the cross trace
11:54 PM _unreal_: I tell you its just odd
11:54 PM _unreal_: I use FINE TINY bits and the mill head jumps around a lot yet I do a 1/8th and .5mm depth cut and it doesnt jump around at all
11:54 PM _unreal_: hehe
11:54 PM _unreal_: oh well