#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 27 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:41 AM Deejay: moin
02:26 AM gloops: no fragalot these days..
04:08 AM Loetmichel: *SWEATING* $me just left the CNC shop... no air conditioning, not even an exhaust fan in that room... 3 hours CNC router and shopvac running... its like a sauna in there :-(
04:17 AM XXCoder: ugh thats in my future basically. that plus lots ash in air
04:18 AM x2s: .oO( it's not the heat that get's you, but the moisture... *runs* ;)
04:21 AM XXCoder: why do people always try to run from assassins?
04:35 AM gloops: fortunately the heatwave is missing us atm
04:47 AM x2s: fortunately the heatwave is having a break here...
04:47 AM XXCoder: 2 weeks ago was quite hot for early june
04:48 AM XXCoder: but been cool since, at 60s-70s and high humidity
04:48 AM x2s: Sunday will be hard. 40° C...
04:49 AM x2s: I really considered just drawing something in CAD, so I can spend the whole sunday in the basement at the mill...
04:50 AM x2s: not optimised tool paths? Don't care at all...
04:51 AM x2s: But I fear the vacuum will make it warm anyway
04:51 AM gloops: we've had mainly rain
04:51 AM gloops: its probably about 65f here now - can stay like that for me i dont like heat
05:10 AM jthornton: morning
05:11 AM XXCoder: yo
05:19 AM Deejay: hey
05:20 AM Tom_L: morning
05:21 AM hightower2: moin
05:23 AM Deejay: hmm, kroatien
05:50 AM hightower2: Hallo aus Kroatien. Wo bist du! :)
05:55 AM Loetmichel: *gnhihi* just glued a new 8mm sacificial pertinax board to the CNC router vacuum table... now i have to drill two times 4800 vacuum holes (one pass 1/8", 7mm deep, one pass 0,8mm thru)... THAT may take a while ;) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwAizto843U ... at least the old board in the video took a year to get down to 2mm (="to thin") ;)
06:02 AM jthornton: interesting pattern, why are some holes skipped? structure under the board?
06:03 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14682
06:03 AM Loetmichel: there are the studs that carry the top
06:03 AM jthornton: ah
08:48 AM perry_j1987: Loetmichel what do you use your 6040 for mainly
09:05 AM Loetmichel: any more and she starts chattering and breaks the bit
09:09 AM perry_j1987: have you ever gotten an endmill to where its dull
09:09 AM perry_j1987: mine commit suicide before they get there heh
09:23 AM Loetmichel: a few
09:23 AM Loetmichel: i only use tungsten carbide endmills though
09:23 AM Loetmichel: the only things that dull them is PCB (Glass fibre) material and Carbon fibre compounds
09:26 AM perry_j1987: ok
09:26 AM perry_j1987: im also interested in your vacuum table
09:26 AM perry_j1987: i've no experience with them yet
09:26 AM perry_j1987: but how does it hold if you dont mask off the other areas not covered by the alum plate?
09:28 AM Loetmichel: because the drills are 2 step
09:28 AM Loetmichel: 1/8" diameter 90% of the top plate thickness, then drilled thru with 0.6mm
09:29 AM Loetmichel: so that if any holes are open (reasonable amount) the shopvac that provides the vacuum simply pulls more air out than can flow in thru the open(ed) holes
09:30 AM perry_j1987: whats the reason for the larger hole vs just a small hole all the way through
09:30 AM Loetmichel: and in the video the green parts are actualally taped shut
09:31 AM Loetmichel: the larger the hole diameter the larger the "pressure surface" and hence the holding force on the table
09:31 AM perry_j1987: oh ya that makes sense
09:31 AM Loetmichel: also the 1/8" because i then can use broken mill bit shafts as locating pins to have the material parallel to the edge of the milling machine
09:32 AM perry_j1987: oh thats great idea
09:32 AM perry_j1987: i might have to make a mini one for mine
09:34 AM perry_j1987: i have one of these https://www.idealvac.com/Edwards-2-E2M2-Rotary-Vane-Dual-Stage-Mechanical-Vacuum-Pump-Rebuilt-Refurbished/pp/P101069
09:34 AM perry_j1987: next time i plan to do some PCB milling i might sit down and make a small vacuum table for it
09:35 AM Loetmichel: perry_j1987: its easy as fu** to make a small vac table...
09:36 AM perry_j1987: i seen a video where a guy made a small vacuum plate and atached it to the rotary axis on his 6040
09:36 AM Loetmichel: (aaand the server is down...)
09:36 AM perry_j1987: he was milling openings in plastic enclosure
09:36 AM Loetmichel: (i HATE that isp...)
09:37 AM perry_j1987: on all 4 sides
09:46 AM Loetmichel: perry_j1987: simple cheap vac table made out of a bit of leftover 18mm thick fir and some 2mm model plywood... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4035
09:46 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4038
09:46 AM Loetmichel: easy as can be
09:47 AM perry_j1987: my vacuum pump, i need to get an air fitting for to use it
09:48 AM perry_j1987: and the clamp
09:48 AM perry_j1987: though i do have a shopvac too heh
09:53 AM Loetmichel: shopvac does about -0.3bar
09:53 AM Loetmichel: thats enough for roughly a ton of pressure on a 6040 bed
09:54 AM Loetmichel: sufficient to hold ANY sheet material firmly in place
09:54 AM Loetmichel: and it has enough volume to not care about any open holes, as long as they are not tooo many
09:54 AM Loetmichel: only caveat: the shopvac has to have a means of cooling when plugged
09:55 AM Loetmichel: either a side valve that opens and lets a certain amount of air pass or an independent fan and air duct for motor cooling (preferred, most of the water sucking ones do have that because of water in the motor-> bad)
09:56 AM perry_j1987: or real short milling jobs only
09:57 AM Loetmichel: i actually use an $50 ebay shopvac for the 6040...
09:58 AM perry_j1987: mine i found on side of road
09:58 AM perry_j1987: it was still there the next morning so i pulled over and grabbed it heh
09:59 AM perry_j1987: went to hardware store and picked up a hose and that was that heh
10:09 AM perry_j1987: Loetmichel what do you set for pitch on helical boring
10:10 AM perry_j1987: in alum
10:10 AM perry_j1987: 1/8 endmil
10:10 AM perry_j1987: ie depth per revolution
10:11 AM Loetmichel: 0.15mm per rev up to 0.6mm per rev, depending on horizontal feed and diameter
10:13 AM Loetmichel: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Na%C3%9Fsauger-Trockensauger-Staubsauger-Industriesauger-Nass-Trockensauger-Sauger/302020984534 <- thats the one i use as a vacuum source. works fine. and even has seperate motor cooling
11:16 AM gregcnc: i guess a 370V motor run cap doesn't like running at 420V for too long
11:18 AM jym: gregcnc: Try using 800V instead
11:18 AM gregcnc: I got the proper 440V today
11:18 AM gregcnc: I just hope that was it
11:18 AM jym: gregcnc: No, I main try using 800 volt mains, not cap =)
11:19 AM gregcnc: yesterday I happen to have a 40uF 370V and the AC started and ran, but my old man said it gave up a few hr later
11:19 AM jym: gregcnc: Didn't let out any magic smoke, did you?
11:19 AM gregcnc: no
11:20 AM Loetmichel: jym: starter capacitors are usually "self healing" metal paper caps
11:20 AM jym: I thought that start caps were just that, to start the motor. is this a compressor?
11:20 AM gregcnc: needed a 35uF and that lowered the cap current by an amp or two so I think it's OK
11:20 AM Loetmichel: they dont explode, each arc that occurs simply burns away a bit of the electrode surface
11:20 AM jym: Loetmichel: (I was speaking of letting the magic smoke out of the motor)
11:20 AM Loetmichel: until the the cap simply has not enough capacitance left
11:20 AM gregcnc: this AC is ancient, no start cap only a run cap
11:21 AM Loetmichel: run caps are identical in construction to start caps ;)
11:21 AM jym: oh AC, not a machine.
11:21 AM gregcnc: it's possible the motor or pump is on the way out
11:22 AM jym: 35uf? The one I replaced in my HVAC was like 3 or 4 F
11:23 AM gregcnc: that is a start cap
11:23 AM jym: ah
11:23 AM gregcnc: ~35 year old unit
11:23 AM jym: Mine is about 20yo I believe
11:24 AM gregcnc: ZERO info online, and i forgot to write down the compressor model
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: Menards has portable AC units this year, 12K BTU for $300
11:25 AM gregcnc: except that for it's age it' was very efficient
11:25 AM jym: gregcnc: I contact the mfg and they emailed me the tech manual for mine (Carrier in this case)
11:25 AM gregcnc: i got one off amazon last year
11:26 AM jym: I went to a local HVAC supply house, was MUCH cheaper than online
11:26 AM gregcnc: this is labelled whirlpool, but the tag is unreadable
11:27 AM jym: the cap is labeled whirlpool?
11:27 AM gregcnc: they stopped making these in lat 80's
11:27 AM gregcnc: AC
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: are you up to 40C yet this year?
11:27 AM gregcnc: china CAP was 13$ at Dreisilker, local motor shop
11:28 AM Loetmichel: 36 today
11:28 AM jym: gregcnc: is this a residental hvac unit?
11:28 AM gregcnc: yes
11:28 AM jym: gregcnc: There can't be that many 440V residental units
11:29 AM gregcnc: it's 240 single phase, but the motor run cap operates at 420V, I measured
11:29 AM jym: It magically double the voltage?
11:30 AM gregcnc: all depends on the motor
11:30 AM Loetmichel: thats what a phase shift cap does
11:30 AM Loetmichel: totally normal
11:30 AM jym: is there a label inside a panel?
11:31 AM jym: wiring diagram?
11:33 AM gregcnc: I needed the compressor data plate, and it probably has load current spec
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: what units do you use there for small AC's? (window or ductless)
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: units of cooling power
11:34 AM gregcnc: doesn't most of the rest of the world use mini splits?
11:34 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: Watts or BTU
11:34 AM Loetmichel: depends on the manufacturer
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: ductless/mini-split
11:38 AM Loetmichel: mini-split is crap
11:39 AM jym: Loetmichel: how so?
11:39 AM Loetmichel: sorry, my fault
11:39 AM Loetmichel: i meant the portable units that only have one hose to the outside are crap
11:39 AM jym: ah, heh
11:39 AM jym: Loetmichel: and blow out craptons of hot air
11:40 AM Loetmichel: had to google what a mini-split actually is ;)
11:40 AM Loetmichel: jym: thats not a problem, but they draw the air they blow out from the inside
11:40 AM jym: Loetmichel: instead of running air ducts, they run coolant lines
11:41 AM Loetmichel: so they draw air in, heat it up to cool the inside air, then blow it out... crawing fresh hot air inside the building from the outside in the process
11:41 AM Loetmichel: thats a "tad" inefficient if you ask me
11:41 AM Loetmichel: jeah, i figured
11:41 AM Loetmichel: after the google
11:42 AM Loetmichel: actually they are called "split-klimaanlage" in german, too
11:42 AM gregcnc: I bought a dual hose portable for teh garage on amazon last year, also has heat pump func
11:43 AM Loetmichel: dual hose as in "pulls air from the outside in to cool the hot side radiator and expells it outside, too"?
11:43 AM Loetmichel: those are OK
11:43 AM gregcnc: yes
11:43 AM jym: portable units are way too expenive on the cost per btu imo
11:43 AM Loetmichel: nearly on par with the split AC units
11:44 AM gregcnc: split should be twice as efficient, in general
11:44 AM jym: Loetmichel: what is on par?
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: jym: $300/12K btu is the sweet spot this year
11:44 AM Loetmichel: jym: dual hose AC and split AC
11:44 AM gregcnc: dual hose cost more
11:44 AM Loetmichel: are nearly on par, efficiency wise
11:45 AM jym: Loetmichel: Nah, you have to consider less loss in mini splits and better cliamte control,
11:45 AM Loetmichel: why less loss?
11:45 AM Loetmichel: heat loss on the hoses?
11:45 AM jym: gregcnc: I'm guessing those hoses arent even insulated?
11:45 AM gregcnc: just more effieicnt design
11:45 AM gregcnc: no
11:46 AM jym: Loetmichel: no loss in the ducts, dont have to heat/cool EVERY room
11:46 AM gregcnc: I should wrap them, but i have excuses
11:46 AM jym: gregcnc: "lzy bastard" isn't an excuse... it's a lifestyple =)
11:46 AM gregcnc: well there is that
11:46 AM jym: =)
11:46 AM Loetmichel: hrhr
11:46 AM * Loetmichel uses his ceiling fans as "swamp coolers" today
11:47 AM jym: To me, the exhaust hose on a portable is just a heat radiator for the room you are trying to cool
11:47 AM gregcnc: yes it is
11:47 AM Loetmichel: just hang 3 wetted tshirts on hangers on the 3 lamp posts underneath
11:47 AM Loetmichel: voila: 2 hours of evaporation cooling ;)
11:47 AM CaptHindsight: insulating the exhaust hose is no big deal
11:48 AM jym: Loetmichel: just go start your bbq to heat your pool already
11:48 AM Loetmichel: pool isnt set up yet
11:48 AM gregcnc: what i was going to do is use 2" extruded foam to amke the window insert
11:48 AM Loetmichel: and i dont use the BBQ any more, there are 100m of black PVC pipe on the garage roof
11:48 AM Loetmichel: works better than the BBQ ;)
11:48 AM jym: Loetmichel: ah ok
11:49 AM jym: Loetmichel: did you install a one way check valve instead of a pump?
11:49 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.amazon.com/FlexiFreeze-Ice-Vest-Velcro-Closure/dp/B001P30358
11:49 AM Loetmichel: nope
11:49 AM Loetmichel: cant do that. the garage roof is higher than the pool
11:50 AM jym: then seetup the pool on the roof... DUH
11:50 AM Loetmichel: the "coffe machine pump" with a check valve only works if the heat spiral is LOWER than the tank
11:50 AM gregcnc: https://www.amazon.com/Conditioner-Personal-Compressed-Waistcoat-Conditioning/dp/B07B4WBCKM/
11:51 AM gregcnc: https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/DFJ201ZL
11:51 AM gregcnc: i wonder how many jackets like that actually sold
11:52 AM CaptHindsight: not many since laborers are called "wusses" for using anything similar
11:53 AM jym: the heated jackets see to sell very well
11:54 AM jym: seem*
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: cooling beer vest
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: keeps you and your beer cold
11:54 AM jym: CaptHindsight: THAt would sell millions
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: *not be worn while driving
11:55 AM CaptHindsight: except in texas
11:55 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: i built a Cylon centurion costume back in the 90s that had a compressor cooler and 4mm water lines throuout the shells
11:55 AM jym: CaptHindsight: you cna drink and drive in texas??????????????
11:55 AM Loetmichel: so you could wear it all day without overheating
11:55 AM gregcnc: what did it weigh?
11:56 AM Loetmichel: about 40kg with all the tech in
11:56 AM Loetmichel: it had a little glow engine converted to propane as a "genset" and compressor drive
11:57 AM gregcnc: that's cool. drive the compressor directly?
11:57 AM Loetmichel: eventually exploded on my when i was welding a strut in the "tornister" and forgot to remove the 1/2 pound camping gas cartouche
11:57 AM Loetmichel: yes
11:58 AM Loetmichel: with a little belt drive
11:59 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/nitrogen-d_1421.html
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: have to run the numbers, how long would a tank of ~10Kg keep someone cool
12:01 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc: fun fact: if you get into a brawl with said costume: backhand slaps are surprisingly effective if supported by 40kg of costume and 2kg of steel chainmail (butchers) gloves ;)
12:01 PM Loetmichel: those skinheads didnt knew what hit them. literally ;)
12:04 PM perry_j1987: Loetmichel hey thank you a ton for those speeds and feeds hah
12:04 PM Loetmichel: my pleasure, perry_j1987
12:04 PM perry_j1987: just gave them a try on this helical boring hole 20mm deep bit didnt break
12:04 PM perry_j1987: and cycle time was less than a third from previous
12:04 PM Loetmichel: nice
12:05 PM perry_j1987: surface finish nicer too
12:05 PM perry_j1987: nicer looking chips as well
12:05 PM Loetmichel: perry_j1987: you did notice though that in the video the "boring holes" were hexagonal?
12:06 PM perry_j1987: i didnt
12:07 PM Loetmichel: air vents. looks nicer
12:07 PM Loetmichel: i have done some milldrilling with round holes though
12:08 PM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7eO5cu-fXg <- shouldnt have used a PC stand as the CNC base... its a bit wobbly at those accelerations ;)
12:08 PM Loetmichel: ah, sorry , those are hexagonal, too
12:08 PM Loetmichel: but nevertheless, its fast ;)
12:10 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16411
12:10 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16414
12:10 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16182
12:10 PM Loetmichel: little 19" 2u enclosure for a crypto server ;)
12:12 PM Loetmichel: hexagonal has the advantage of less acceleration and deceleration per rotation. makes for a smoother and faster run
12:12 PM Loetmichel: so i use it wherever i can
12:13 PM Loetmichel: (and yes, the 5040 is to small to do the bottom/top plate in one part... puzzle ears to the rescue ;)
12:14 PM Loetmichel: 6040
12:29 PM perry_j1987: mine is real wobbly
12:29 PM perry_j1987: its on a steel shelving cart
12:29 PM perry_j1987: made a wooden top with partial holes to fit over the top of the steel tubes and set the 6040 ontop of it
12:30 PM perry_j1987: the caster wheel brackets are what wobbles on it
12:49 PM perry_j1987: well this just doesnt make sense
12:50 PM perry_j1987: i was using neg stock to leave to bring these helical holes to size
12:54 PM perry_j1987: with the new endmill its slightly too big now so i dropped the size to leave down but now the holes are drastically smaller
12:54 PM perry_j1987: doesnt add up heh
12:55 PM perry_j1987: those are some nice looking cases Loetmichel
12:55 PM gregcnc: nothing else changed?
12:55 PM perry_j1987: nope
12:56 PM perry_j1987: well let me think back
12:57 PM perry_j1987: ok there was change
12:57 PM perry_j1987: the first gcode was setup for a single flute endmill
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: jym: ever see a small port (tire valve, camping air mattress port) for attaching to a vinyl membrane?
12:57 PM perry_j1987: i duplicated it and changed it to 2 flute and set the new speedand feeds Loetmichel suggested
12:58 PM perry_j1987: time to do some more measuring
12:58 PM perry_j1987: bbiab
12:58 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight Yeah, used for vafuum forming
12:59 PM gregcnc: bagging
01:00 PM roycroft: capthindsight: https://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Bag-Stem-Assembly-Flush-Mount.html
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.fibreglast.com/product/vacuum-connector-891/Vacuum_Fittings
01:01 PM gregcnc: all kinds depending on connection and durability
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: something made from silicone or vinyl would be nice
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: not brass/metal
01:04 PM gregcnc: people just caulk hoses in too
01:04 PM roycroft: the one i linked to has a brass stem, but the body is vinyl
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: yes, looking for smaller
01:05 PM perry_j1987: ok guys im stupid :P
01:05 PM roycroft: that stem is a standard schrader valve without the innards
01:05 PM CaptHindsight: figured some one who camps or survivalist would come across something for DIY a big water bag or air mattress
01:06 PM perry_j1987: i clicked out and back in to the tool path and it had lost the - symbol in stock to leave haha
01:06 PM roycroft: smaller than what you find on an air mattress, for sure
01:06 PM perry_j1987: thats why it was making the hole smaller heh
01:06 PM roycroft: better than having made the hole too big
01:06 PM perry_j1987: this is why im glad cnc machines dont have AI
01:07 PM perry_j1987: if there's ever a problem i know its my fault cause the machine is dumb
01:07 PM perry_j1987: lol
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.crowsleypark.com/Pics/HiLex/Airbed2.jpg
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: pretty small
01:07 PM roycroft: a shrader valve is the type of valve used on car tires and cheap bicycle inner tubes
01:08 PM roycroft: i'm not saying buy the one i linked to
01:09 PM roycroft: i'm saying the one i linked to is fairly small
01:09 PM roycroft: you may have other good reasons not to want it
01:15 PM andypugh: I am in a bit if a pickle here.
01:16 PM andypugh: My test machine isn’t booting with my newly-built kernel.
01:16 PM andypugh: But my keyboard doesn’t work until a few seconds after grub has stopped waiting.
01:17 PM methods_: input all your data with a hammer
01:17 PM andypugh: I might need to go shopping for a keyboard.
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.thistothat.com/
01:19 PM roycroft: i should point out as well that if this, indeed, a vacuum application a vinyl valve stem will likely collapse as soon as you start pulling the vacuum
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: water at ~1 psi
01:21 PM roycroft: aah, so it's not a vacuum application
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: 1 psi over atmosphere
01:21 PM roycroft: that changes the equation significantly
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: ever see a small port (tire valve, camping air mattress port) for attaching to a vinyl membrane?
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: original question
01:22 PM roycroft: i saw vacuum mentioned
01:22 PM roycroft: that must have been a response to the original question
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: someone mentioned a vacuum bag port
01:22 PM andypugh: AH, interesting. It turns out that a USB keyboard in the rear-panel USB does work. (And I found a PS2 connector and keyboard too)
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: yeah MB's are funny about which USB connectors work
01:24 PM mozmck: yeah, I have a shuttle mini-pc which won't boot from a usb stick plugged in the front, but will if its plugged in the back. After boot all ports seem to work fine for everything else.
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: PXE and UFI only work with the rear ones at times, thank you broken BIOSes
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: UFI/EFI
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DB25-25-pin-LPT-Port-PCI-E-Express-Parallel-Printer-Controller-Card-Adapter/272174222785 $9.29 shipped, confirmed working with LCNC on newer kernels
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: the driver was added sometime in the 4.9 and up
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WCH ^^
02:44 PM andypugh: Ah! one of thise with an uncommitted IO chip that emulates a p-port with the right firmware? Interesting if they now work, as they certainly didn’t with Wheezy
02:47 PM mozmck: Thinking of kernels and hardware: intel *finally* released a fix for the baytrail freezing issue. https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051#c1000
02:47 PM perry_j1987: so i heard that you can get die holder adapter for these tapping heads too?
02:47 PM perry_j1987: interesting
02:48 PM mozmck: The fix that worked for me for a couple of years now for J1900 and J1800 was the kernel boot parameter intel_idle.max_cstate=1
02:50 PM mozmck: But that patch won't go in the kernel until 5.3, so I backported it to 4.19.50 (to use with preempt-rt) and it seems to work great. If anyone is interested I can post my backported patch somewhere.
02:54 PM andypugh: What is the behaviour of the issue that it solves?
02:55 PM mozmck: The computer will freeze randomly
02:56 PM mozmck: Happens on all baytrail and seems like on some other lines of chips. It seems to depend on the board as well - some do it worse than others, some maybe not at all.
02:58 PM mozmck: I have J1900 that would only freeze on occasion, and some that were more common. One J1800 I have I can barely install Linux on because it freezes so often - until I set intel_idle.max_cstate=1 - or now install the kernel with this patch.
03:42 PM jym: mozmck Just curious, what is the "default" csstate?
03:43 PM mozmck: I think 1? Not sure. The higher the c-state the lower the power usage.
03:46 PM mozmck: jym: looks like C0 is the operating state: https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-cpu-c-states-power-saving-modes/
04:15 PM JT-Shop: dang M3x0.5 form tap has aluminum galled up on the first few threads... quite hard to clean out
04:15 PM Tom_L: 93F
04:15 PM Deejay: gn8
04:18 PM jym: mozmckIf you are setting it to CS1, what is it set to in th eunpatched kernel?
04:19 PM jym: mozmck HAve you disabled ACPI in the bios and tried it (without the switch)?
04:19 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, not enough lube?
04:20 PM Tom_L: or chips left over from the drill?
04:21 PM jym: Tom_L: Is this enough (read comments) https://www.amazon.com/Passion-Lubes-Natural-Water-Based-Lubricant/dp/B005MR3IVO?th=1
04:31 PM JT-Shop: dunno Tom_L
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: mozmck: the BIOS is more often the cause vs the chipset/cpu
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: you just can't trust a factory closed source BIOS to what is asked
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: to do what is asked
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: the PCI ID was not in the LPT driver
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: https://lore.kernel.org/patchwork/patch/800654/
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: was back ported to at least 4.9 as well
04:35 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: hi
04:36 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: I think I have found the same thing with that or similar, basically the PCI ID does not identify it as a parallel port and the drivers refuse to play.
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: mozmck: put it up on your git* and post the info on the forums so it's search-able
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: yes and to make matters worse there were Chine knock-offs of knock-offs that had other issues
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: Chine/Chinese
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: the one that came in today for $9 from ebay has parts soldered at all sorts of angles
04:38 PM andypugh: A Chine is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackgang_Chine
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: looks like hand placed smt
04:40 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: is it still legal in TX to have open liquor in the car?
04:40 PM tiwake: I don't know?
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: not any more
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: pretty sure it used to be
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.kcbd.com/story/937719/whatever-happened-to-texas-open-container-law/
04:46 PM andypugh: I wonder if there is any point keeping the software I just found? Boxed installation media and manuals for Quickroute 4.0 PCB design software from 1996.
04:48 PM andypugh: I realy don’t see why passengers shouldn’t be allowed to drink, to be honest.
04:49 PM jym: andypugh: Image the FDD's and scan the manuals?
04:50 PM andypugh: There was a time when we would drive our 1926 Morris truck around with an open barrel of beer in the back and hand it out to passers-by. But that became illegal for no good reason that I can see.
04:50 PM Rab: andypugh, passengers drinking is fine. But it's difficult to distinguish from the driver drinking, and handing the drink to their passenger when pulled over.
04:51 PM andypugh: So you test their blood-alcohol.
04:51 PM jym: California has a no open container in vehicle law
04:52 PM andypugh: In priniciple drinking _while_ driving isn’t a problem, if you drink little enough to be unimpaired.
04:53 PM andypugh: I feel that it really should be about being drunk, not about being in a position where you might be able to drink.
04:54 PM CaptHindsight: driving does not impair my drinking
04:54 PM andypugh: What next? banning carrying knives in case you stab someone? (Oh, that already happened). Maybe posessing a penis in case you rape someone?
04:54 PM Rab: It's 2019, anything is possible.
04:55 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: heh
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: no the logic here is that body openings (vaginas, etc) should be banned since they are distracting
04:56 PM CaptHindsight: whomever is weaker should conform to the demands of the more powerful
04:56 PM Rab: Americans hate authority, so they rip all their body hair off.
04:57 PM Tom_L: in the 60's they grew it out
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: oh no, they love authority now
04:58 PM Tom_L: yeah, just watch a couple episodes of 'cops' and you'll see how much we love it
04:58 PM Tom_L: or 'live pd'
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: they give all the breaks to the most wealthy
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: worship fame, wealth and power
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: look at who they idolize
05:00 PM Tom_L: they arrested shia labeouf on one of em
05:00 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, that's because they identify with those people, not because they desire subservience.
05:01 PM CaptHindsight: oh no, they crave it
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: tough talkers
05:03 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: I did crack a zieggen bock beer
05:03 PM tiwake: (made in texas)
05:03 PM tiwake: good stuff
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: i pretty much just drink sours if it's beer
05:04 PM Rab: No opinion on Ziegenbock, a no doubt typically fine Anheuser-Busch brand, but bocks in general are great.
05:04 PM tiwake: a sour beer?
05:05 PM tiwake: sour beer is unique... I've had some before.. I like that stuff too
05:05 PM Rab: Shiner Bock used to be our local favorite, but it's taken a back seat over the years.
05:05 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders_red_ale
05:06 PM CaptHindsight: almost wine-like
05:06 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: there was a company that opened up in oregon that made sour beer.. did a bunch of taste testing and bought a bottle
05:06 PM tiwake: I forget the name
05:07 PM CaptHindsight: one of the regs in here from thataways brews them
05:07 PM tiwake: it was right next to where I used to work... heh
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: 82 in here right now
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: i only have 4/9 of the AC installed
05:10 PM tiwake: crap, trying to find that beer...
05:12 PM tiwake: I think this was it http://www.degardebrewing.com/
05:13 PM CaptHindsight: oops how late can you order from Mcmaster?
05:16 PM CaptHindsight: ah open Sat for will call
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: RTAI 5.2 is wroking
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: should be working soon to
05:48 PM SpeedEvil: Is there any reason other than convention that lathes are setup to cut right-hand threads towards the chuck?
05:52 PM CaptHindsight: righty tighty lefty loosey
05:59 PM tiwake: SpeedEvil: you could spin it in reverse and use a left handed tool
06:00 PM SpeedEvil: Oh - I know workarounds can be done.
06:00 PM tiwake: SpeedEvil: the main reason is to allow for acceleration
06:01 PM tiwake: the fanuc books say to give minimum 0.2" between material and the starting position of the treading tool
06:01 PM SpeedEvil: Hmm.yeah - I guess there is little room if you're starting in a gutter.
06:02 PM tiwake: IMO pullout threads are nicer
06:03 PM Tom_L: rolled threads are even nicer
06:03 PM tiwake: Tom_L: yeah, I did a lot of rolled threads in copper
06:03 PM tiwake: they roll really nicely
06:03 PM Tom_L: brass for me
06:03 PM tiwake: don't try to fix it though
06:04 PM Tom_L: double 'timed' roller
06:04 PM jthornton: got the form taps cleaned up with some lye now to find a suitable lube for forming the threads
06:04 PM tiwake: did a bunch of formed tapping too.. such are kinda picky about diameters... heh
06:05 PM jthornton: yea they are
06:05 PM tiwake: jthornton: what material are you form tapping?
06:05 PM Tom_L: i can imagine the m3 is quite picky
06:05 PM jthornton: 6061
06:06 PM jthornton: yea m3x0.5
06:06 PM tiwake: just use thin oil I guess
06:06 PM jthornton: I did a lot of them with just coolant, maybe my coolant is not high enough concentrate now...
06:06 PM tiwake: enh
06:06 PM Tom_L: i dunno what the technical name is but for tapping we used tap honey. that might work good
06:07 PM tiwake: aluminum likes thin oil
06:07 PM tiwake: try wd40 or something
06:07 PM Tom_L: jthornton, got a refractometer to test it?
06:08 PM Tom_L: i don't worry about that since i'm doing mist only
06:08 PM Tom_L: just mix up the ratio they recomend and let it go til it's gone
06:08 PM tiwake: rapid tap is thicker stuff, but it might work reasonably well
06:09 PM jthornton: somewhere I do have a refractometer...
06:17 PM andypugh: jthornton: To avoid picking up when pressing steel my dad always advocated tallow. It might be worth trying a similar animal fat if you have any.
06:17 PM andypugh: Or, more modern, maybe hypoid gear oil?
06:17 PM jthornton: I do have some gear oil
06:18 PM tiwake: transmission oil would be good
06:18 PM jthornton: I have a bit of tallow but it's not to easy to get at...
06:18 PM tiwake: modern transmission oil
06:18 PM tiwake: actually I think transmission oil would work fantastically well
06:18 PM tiwake: now that I'm thinking about it
06:19 PM tiwake: like mercon 5 or whatever
06:19 PM Tom_L: ATF?
06:19 PM tiwake: mercon 5 is used in ford manual transmissions too
06:19 PM Tom_L: huh
06:20 PM tiwake: its what I'm supposed to put in my T45 (manual transmission)
06:21 PM tiwake: that stuff should work really well cutting or forming aluminum
06:21 PM jthornton: why is that?
06:21 PM tiwake: its designed to slick up aluminum... heh
06:22 PM tiwake: and its pretty thin
06:22 PM jthornton: needs to withstand a lot of pressure too...
06:22 PM tiwake: try it
06:23 PM tiwake: the other thing I'd try is marvel mystery oil
06:23 PM tiwake: I know some people who mix the two together
06:23 PM tiwake: for cutting oil
06:24 PM jthornton: good cutting oil does not mean it's good forming oil but it could be
06:24 PM tiwake: I generally don't use cutting oil in manual machines unless I have issues
06:24 PM tiwake: well sure
06:25 PM tiwake: aluminum is kind of special though
06:25 PM tiwake: try some transmission oil, lemme know how it goes
06:25 PM jthornton: yea I've figured that out over the years 7i75 you don't use the std tap drill...
06:25 PM jthornton: you try it lol
06:26 PM tiwake: I have not used a form tap in quite a few years
06:27 PM jthornton: I switched to form tap for this job some time back due to tiny taps breaking off
06:27 PM tiwake: yeah
06:27 PM tiwake: are you double drilling?
06:27 PM jthornton: these form taps are tough little buggers
06:27 PM jthornton: what do you mean double drilling?
06:28 PM tiwake: two drills so the hole comes out nearly the perfect size
06:28 PM Tom_L: probably to clean out the hole
06:28 PM jthornton: no, I'd use a reamer if that was a issue
06:28 PM tiwake: you might want to for a form tap
06:29 PM jthornton: like I mentioned a while ago, I've done a whole lot of these parts without any problem, so my suspect now is my coolant
06:29 PM tiwake: well, aluminum wouldn't be so bad I don't think
06:30 PM Tom_L: jthornton when's the last time you checked/changed it?
06:30 PM jthornton: no clue lol
06:30 PM Tom_L: been warming up lately and evaporating
06:31 PM jthornton: I don't use the vmc much, I keep it topped off with water but I'm sure there is some carry out of the actual coolant
06:31 PM tiwake: when I get my lathe working, I think I might just put transmission oil in it, instead of standard coolant
06:32 PM tiwake: I can't think of any kind of material that transmission oil would not work at least reasonably well with
06:34 PM roycroft: actually, aluminium can be a lot of trouble when tapping small holes
06:34 PM roycroft: it gums up the tap really easily
06:34 PM tiwake: roycroft: form tapping?
06:35 PM roycroft: i haven't done any form tapping like that
06:35 PM tiwake: thats why jthornton is using a form tap
06:36 PM jthornton: found my refractometer so I'll test my coolant tomorrow, too tired to do it today
06:36 PM andypugh: I wouldn’t use transmission oil for metal cutting, but a form tap is metal rubbing, and it seems to me that EP additves and friction modifiers might be excellent for the task.
06:37 PM tiwake: andypugh: I've used transmission oil for regular cutting oil... it works well
06:37 PM jthornton: EP Extreme Pressure?
06:37 PM andypugh: But I would me brushing it on, with no coolant, rather than replacing coolant with it.
06:38 PM jthornton: I turned off the coolant for that op and put a m0 after the tool change so I can open the door
06:43 PM roycroft: it's almost time for the second round of the first debate
06:43 PM roycroft: so not much more shop work for me today
07:35 PM gregcnc: EP additives are common in cuttingoils
07:36 PM jym: What is "EP" ? Extra Punch?
07:40 PM gregcnc: extreme pressure
07:41 PM roycroft: extra pushy
07:41 PM jym: since when is coolant... extreme pressure?
07:41 PM _unreal_: finally I'm starting to drill my mounting holes on my table. so I can tap them all and get my waste board setup
07:41 PM _unreal_: FINALLY
07:42 PM _unreal_: I also got my side shields installed today to protect the electronics
07:42 PM jym: _unreal_: cbale ties would have worked and been done in 12 seconds =)
07:42 PM _unreal_: cable ties?
07:43 PM gregcnc: jym use the coolant for cutting and not drinking
07:44 PM jym: gregcnc: Wait a minute, why would I do that?
07:44 PM _unreal_: these drill bits do not like drilling into 1/8th aluminum then into fiberglass board
07:46 PM _unreal_: damn... and there it is... drill bit broke
07:46 PM _unreal_: I dont think it was my feed rate but rather cheap shit drill bits
07:46 PM _unreal_: I used one the other day to drill a ton of PCB holes by hand. and it dulled
07:46 PM _unreal_: :(
07:47 PM _unreal_: ARG....
07:47 PM _unreal_: all i want is to mount my waste board
07:47 PM roycroft: fiberglass is not fun to be drilling
07:47 PM _unreal_: nope
07:47 PM roycroft: the tool geometry needs to be substantially different than for drilling metal
07:47 PM _unreal_: and I'm going from aluminum into it
07:47 PM jym: drill the alimunim, then switch to a glass bit??
07:48 PM roycroft: that's what i'd do
07:48 PM _unreal_: a glass bit would be a carbide which is also good for aluminum
07:48 PM _unreal_: thees bits I have are not likely carbide
07:48 PM _unreal_: they are a dirt cheap set from harbor freight
07:48 PM roycroft: when i worked in a boat factory we had two sets of drills - one for fiberglass and one for stainless steel
07:48 PM jym: No, a glass bit is lke a tile bit
07:48 PM _unreal_: nice drillbit guide holder though VERY nice
07:48 PM roycroft: we would use the latter on wood as well
07:49 PM _unreal_: jym no one uses tile drill bits on fiberglass. except maybe hole saws...
07:49 PM roycroft: all the "carpenters" carried around two drill indices
07:50 PM _unreal_: indice? index?
07:50 PM _unreal_: I kept reading it. indices??? indices what is this indicesooooooooo index
07:50 PM roycroft: indices is plural of index
07:50 PM Tom_L: indexes :)
07:50 PM roycroft: that's an abomination
07:51 PM Tom_L: hahah
07:51 PM jym: ah, I guess they are carbid tipped
07:51 PM _unreal_: I'll show you an index
07:51 PM roycroft: :)
07:51 PM _unreal_: ok almost 9pm going to make din...
07:51 PM _unreal_: I'm done here for a few I guess do to my dril bit breaking
07:52 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, how'd the drill grid go?
07:52 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I'm still working on it
07:52 PM _unreal_: I had to adjust the end of the frame a bit because it was still a 32nd high
07:53 PM _unreal_: so when I set the sub deck down it curled up
07:53 PM _unreal_: AT x0y0
07:54 PM _unreal_: My base deck is the fiberglass board. my sub deck bridges between the fiberglass and the wood frame (thanks to the travel of the cnc machine being to long.)
07:54 PM _unreal_: once I get my bottom hole pattern drilled. I'll then clamp down the waste board and run a slightly modified pattern again
07:55 PM _unreal_: I think if I do any other project tonight it should be to build my spindle relay
07:55 PM _unreal_: because the board i had been using had them bilt in
07:55 PM _unreal_: :/
07:55 PM _unreal_: sigh
09:10 PM _unreal_: interesting have not see fdarling in a while ether