#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 24 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
05:30 AM Tom_L: morning
05:34 AM XXCoder: yo
05:40 AM jthornton: morning
06:04 AM sgiles__: hello
06:06 AM sgiles__: i have a older working version of the 2.8 branch of linuxcnc running on a ubuntu precise box
06:06 AM sgiles__: when i go to update it : this is in my sources list : deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise master-rt
06:06 AM sgiles__: i get a GPG key error.
06:07 AM sgiles__: i have removed and re-added the build-bot key. but it still fails.
06:07 AM sgiles__: if i changes the distro over to wheezy : deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ wheezy master-rt
06:07 AM sgiles__: (just to see if i get a gpg error on an "apt-get update" it downloads and unpacks fine
06:07 AM sgiles__: is there something up with the precise repo?
06:11 AM jthornton: it's still there http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/dists/precise/
06:12 AM sgiles__: yup, but i get a GPG signing error when i try and "apt-get update" which means i can't verify the repo package list sig.
06:12 AM sgiles__: almost like the repo has been updated wtih the wrong GPG signing key.
06:13 AM sgiles__: now, it is way more likely that my linuxbox is at fault. But i can't work out how.
06:14 AM sgiles__: this is a copy of what is in my sources.list
06:14 AM sgiles__: : deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise master-rt
06:14 AM jthornton: looks like the Release.gpg is an empty file with no key
06:14 AM sgiles__: this is the error i get on "apt-get update"
06:14 AM sgiles__: Hit http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com precise-updates/universe Translation-en
06:14 AM sgiles__: niverse Translation-en
06:14 AM sgiles__: ecise Release: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 2
06:15 AM sgiles__: ah... there in lies the problem!
06:15 AM sgiles__: no GPG key to verify
06:15 AM sgiles__: who is the repo maintainer?
06:16 AM jthornton: seb_kuzminsky:
06:16 AM jthornton: you would have to email him he is seldom on the irc anymore
06:18 AM sgiles__: ok, hunting for his contact address...
06:22 AM sgiles__: done
06:23 AM sgiles__: what distro's do most other people use?
06:24 AM jthornton: dunno what other people use
06:24 AM sgiles__: thanks for your help
06:24 AM pingufan: I am using openSUSE since >10 years. But not with linuxcnc, but I would immediately switch to it if it would be available
06:25 AM jthornton: I use ubuntu 10.04 and debian 9.5 and also some linux mint 19
06:25 AM pingufan: I hate debians in general.
06:26 AM pingufan: debian is so braindead in following long time standards.
06:26 AM XXCoder: xfce mint here
06:27 AM pingufan: standard is assigning a user group 100 ("users". What does debian? It assigns every user a goup ID identicaly to UID ! (horror)
06:27 AM pingufan: And this is only the tip of the iceberg.
06:28 AM pingufan: Would be wonderful if linuxcnc would be available as .rpm package to be installed on opensuse/fedore/redhat/...
06:28 AM jthornton: doesn't seem to have any effect on my machines
06:29 AM jthornton: you could do that...
06:29 AM pingufan: What could I do?
06:29 AM jthornton: make it a rpm
06:30 AM pingufan: Sure, I could. But why isn't it offered as .deb _and_ .rpm natively?
06:31 AM jthornton: dunno, maybe they didn't feel like the work
06:31 AM pingufan: How critical is using realtime kernel or normal kernel on a CNC mill at all?
06:31 AM jthornton: it's open source...
06:31 AM jthornton: try it and see
06:31 AM pingufan: And I (as newbe) shall start with merging a .deb into a .rpm then. (chuckle)
06:32 AM jthornton: <pingufan> I am using openSUSE since >10 years.
06:32 AM jthornton: don't look like a newbee to me...
06:33 AM pingufan: USING. Not developing or porting software.
06:34 AM jthornton: well you have 10 years head start on someone that has never used linux...
06:34 AM pingufan: I don't want to start re-engineering the entire stuff to move it to suse
06:34 AM jthornton: then it most likely won't happen
06:35 AM pingufan: Developers of linuxcnc blindly know how it works. So they can make .rpm versions lots quicker (and with less failures) than me.
06:35 AM jthornton: they have left the building
06:36 AM pingufan: Means?
06:36 AM jthornton: it ain't going to happen unless you do it
06:36 AM pingufan: Wonderful.
06:36 AM pingufan: (facepalm)
06:37 AM jthornton: that's how it works... you want something you do it
06:38 AM jthornton: or you hire a programmer to add something you want
06:39 AM jthornton: which is how pathpilot got created
06:39 AM jthornton: tormach hired a programmer to write it and also improve the trajectory planner
06:39 AM pingufan: Well, I use an old Ubuntu 8 based ISO. I found out that newer isos don't run on the hardware I have. Shortly I found out that this wonderful linuxcnc has massive problems when using a 5 TByte NFS share. It didn't show any content of this share. So I had to move the NFS share for linuxcnc back to a small share to make it work again..
06:40 AM jthornton: it ain't linuxcnc that has the problem but the libraries it uses
06:40 AM jthornton: used
06:40 AM pingufan: So there is no developer(-team) existing for linuxcnc?
06:41 AM jthornton: not as much as in the past
06:41 AM pingufan: Oh my god.
06:42 AM pingufan: So I will have to stick with this damned debian and teach it how standards work.
06:46 AM jthornton: not really you could port it to a rpm
06:46 AM jthornton: you have that option
06:46 AM sync: or you just build it from source
06:46 AM jthornton: or use mach and windblows
06:47 AM pingufan: No, thank you. Before touching winblows, I try to force standards into debian.
06:48 AM pingufan: I have absolutely no interest in touching this Microsoft crap.
06:48 AM XXCoder: in wedding night, lady finds out why bill gates named company microsoft
06:49 AM XXCoder: to be fair bill gates is quite nice guy now
06:49 AM sync: he always was
06:49 AM XXCoder: quite business bloodthristy tho
06:50 AM sensille: he saved apple!
06:50 AM XXCoder: yeah to avoid monopoly
06:51 AM sensille: or to make money
06:51 AM XXCoder: funny how things reversed now. it was windows, ios then linux
06:51 AM XXCoder: now its linux, ios, windows
06:52 AM pingufan: I wouldn't cry if apple would go.
06:52 AM pingufan: (together with Windows)
06:53 AM XXCoder: seems to me if company ages long enough, it turns into lawsuit company
06:53 AM pingufan: But in google news I read that even Microsoft themselves confirmed that Windows itself has no real future. They meanwhile integrate the full Linux kernel.
06:54 AM pingufan: Hope the final result will not be "Microsoft Linux".
06:56 AM pingufan: Is linuxcnc available as debian package? I was told that 'alien' should be able to install ".deb" packages in openSuSE.
06:56 AM pingufan: Self-compiling from source for sure exceeds my skills.
06:57 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/dists/
06:57 AM jthornton: it's quite simple actually to build from source
06:58 AM pingufan: Welcome to a long list of debians... :(
06:58 AM pingufan: Building from source is siimple? Perhaps like "make config" "make" "make install" ?
06:59 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/
06:59 AM jthornton: from a clean install you have to install the dependencies and a few other things
06:59 AM jthornton: and of course install a real time kernel
07:01 AM pingufan: Well, I usually do not try to do individual deep going changes on my systems. The reason is that such things often end in andless dependency issues.
07:03 AM pingufan: So I usually use YaST to install only pre-built packages. This makes things working more reliable.
07:03 AM pingufan: And better reproduceable.
07:03 AM jthornton: I don't seem to have any problem building and installing linuxcnc using those instructions
07:04 AM pingufan: I will try that.
07:04 AM jthornton: I'm in the process of changing all my machines to debian 9 and linuxcnc 2.8 and qtpyvcp
07:06 AM jthornton: and in my spare time which I have almost none writing a 7i92 configuration tool...
07:06 AM pingufan: Well, I am using openSUSE because of same reason. But I prefer an OS keeping to long time standards as much as possible instead if "defining its own standards"
07:06 AM jthornton: sometimes when you make choices you also have to make sacrifices...
07:07 AM pingufan: SuSE (and mostly Fedora/RedHat) are those being close to 70s standards
07:07 AM pingufan: Yes, this sacrifies are my problem.
07:11 AM jthornton: for me ubuntu 10.04 seemed to "work without hassle" better than any other os I've used in the last 11 years
07:11 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e70jdiDm7yc
07:12 AM pingufan: Configuring NFS needs for me 2 minutes on openSuSE. I was doing trial and error for half an hour on Ubuntu, then I threw this crappy tools away and manually edited the files.
07:13 AM pingufan: GNOME is horror for me
07:13 AM jthornton: that was most likely ubuntu 6.06
07:13 AM pingufan: Something with an "8" inside.
07:16 AM Elmo40: 10.04 was very stable. but, as with many things they keep fcuking with it...
07:16 AM Elmo40: just look how bloated firefox is these days.
07:17 AM pingufan: Version 10 is not running on my CNC mill PC at all.
07:17 AM jthornton: my CHNC still runs on 10.04
07:17 AM pingufan: mine on 8.x
07:17 AM jthornton: you could look at using Lubuntu it is light weight and supports old hardware
07:17 AM sync: Elmo40: at least it got significantly faster
07:18 AM pingufan: Except of a black stripe inside the AXIS area it works.
08:21 AM jthornton: oh my the sun is actually out for a change
08:21 AM perry_j1987: morning
08:29 AM jthornton: morning
08:30 AM perry_j1987: looks like im going to go look at an air compressor this morning
08:52 AM jthornton: tell you what I'll trade you, I'll go look at air compressors this morning and you clean out the CHNC coolant tank!
08:53 AM veek: nice drawing on all the myriad ways stell products are produced https://annualreview2015.arcelormittal.com/fact-book/additional-information/steel-making-process
08:55 AM veek: why does lump iron ore get the coke but loose-iron-ore doesn't?
09:23 AM perry_j1987: lol do i get to keep the coolant tank? :P
09:23 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-4-on-sale-now-from-35/
09:28 AM perry_j1987: lot of changes
09:32 AM pingufan: CaptHindsight: Well, as long as this Raspberries can't run linuxcnc seriously, I see then as nice toy (with 1GB RAM) and not really cheaper to a miniITX board with AMD A10 CPU.
09:33 AM pingufan: I am almost sure they have limitations in realtime things, no?
09:36 AM SpeedEvil: pingufan: You can lock out a core for realtime, and treat it as a big microcontroller.
09:37 AM perry_j1987: the pi4 can have up to 4 gig ram now
09:38 AM CaptHindsight: the main problem with the Rpi's has been the crappy Linux builds
09:39 AM CaptHindsight: why so many have problems building working preempt_rt kernels and LCNC packages for them
09:39 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/schematics/rpi_SCH_4b_4p0_reduced.pdf
09:39 AM pingufan: Sounds interesting then! It would be great if I could integrate a Pi directly into my CNC mill
09:40 AM CaptHindsight: have to see what they connected over USB and PCIe
09:42 AM CaptHindsight: reduced schematic... near useless
09:44 AM perry_j1987: so are they saying that the thing is usefull as a desktop environment now since they crammed dual monitor setup on it?
09:48 AM CaptHindsight: no schematics or complete data sheet for the SOC so I can't verify much
09:49 AM CaptHindsight: just translated marketing blurbs everywhere
09:49 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bcm2711/rpi_DATA_2711_1p0_preliminary.pdf
09:50 AM CaptHindsight: the integrated GB Ethernet controller hopefully is the used
09:51 AM CaptHindsight: SOC has PCIe but it looks like they didn't bring it out to a connector
09:52 AM CaptHindsight: "The Ethernet controller on the main SoC is connected to an external Broadcom PHY over a dedicated RGMII link, providing full throughput."
09:54 AM perry_j1987: they traditionally use the pcie for wifi,bluetooth,ethernet on the pis
09:58 AM perry_j1987: andypugh is going to have ot update his new pi pro case heh
09:58 AM perry_j1987: figures about the day after he machines something there's a new pi out heh
09:59 AM perry_j1987: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPQMB2bTBi5kMcKKc9T8iKlpAHcs496biUuc912w3WRTOHApNfTQRBCDaNtjWyyXg?key=RnhQMUROVnpYMUFVU3R0QjJnMUNjUnhnNUZYWktR
09:59 AM perry_j1987: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMJUnhi5xTmTf_i4ynDMCuh0ZI8dbBKYa3sF6HLjGPxmwj0T7MUA97MvrfHmDHN-g?key=OC1LQThNMnNDdXQ0NGFxY2FMNmVWVzVsSlprT0xR
09:59 AM perry_j1987: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3705677
10:00 AM CaptHindsight: he has sevral ARM boards already, what is one more :)
10:15 AM CaptHindsight: won't heads explode if they see something machined vs glue gun printed on Thingiverse?
11:03 AM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: this is the first Rpi with PCIe IIRC, the earlier Rpi's used USB for connecting Ethernet
11:03 AM perry_j1987: oh yes your right
11:04 AM perry_j1987: what board am i thinking of
11:04 AM perry_j1987: one of these litle boards i was looking into for that
11:04 AM CaptHindsight: and I don't see PCIe pinned out anywhere, but it might be possible to tap into it
11:05 AM CaptHindsight: but if the GB Ethernet controller is integrated then the connection to Mesa FPGA's should would great this way
11:05 AM CaptHindsight: would/be
11:08 AM perry_j1987: it would be real nice not running old desktops heh
11:08 AM jym: Morning folks
11:09 AM perry_j1987: morning
11:09 AM perry_j1987: everybody's talking about ditching their computers for the new raspberry pi 4 jym
11:09 AM perry_j1987: you onboard? :P
11:18 AM jthornton: Full-throughput Gigabit Ethernet I wonder if that will run a mesa ethernet card?
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: somebuddy needs to get one and try
11:23 AM jym: They just show comparion performance graphs of the eheernet between different pi's but that dont' give the chipset used
11:24 AM net|: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiIeKWKDdgo vertical chainsaw mill
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: jym: the GB Ethernet controller is integrated in the Rpi4's ARM SOC
11:25 AM jym: CaptHindsight: Oh, hmmm
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: so it should be good for real time over GB Ethernet
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: since it's no longer over USB
11:25 AM JT-Shop: I agree someone needs to try one
11:25 AM jym: CaptHindsight: why do you say that?
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: jym: integrated ethernet controllers are usually interconnected wit the cpu cores over a fst internal bus and not over USB
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: wit/with fst/fast
11:27 AM jym: CaptHindsight: I'm not speaking of over usb, and much as on the PCIe bus or equiv
11:29 AM jym: A transfer of randomly generated raw ethernet packets will give a clue
11:29 AM CaptHindsight: youre a randomly generated raw ethernet packet!
11:30 AM jym: TCP/IP is seriously bloated
11:31 AM jym: pcw_mesa: Is the ethernet i/o card you guys have TCP/IP ?
11:31 AM jym: pcw_mesa: or layer 2 ?
11:34 AM jym: Oh it's 10/100, yeah ok CaptHindsight, "real time"
11:35 AM jym: (not sarcasam)
11:38 AM jym: CaptHindsight: The 21143 chipset has a long standing it seems, cool
11:39 AM jym: If I knew anything about FPGA programming, I'd dump all the real time stuff on to it, and off the pc
11:40 AM CaptHindsight: Mesa uses UDP for transfers IIRC
11:41 AM CaptHindsight: hope and pray like steppers
11:41 AM jym: lol
11:50 AM jthornton: no rush to order one they don't ship till mid july...
11:56 AM Tom_L: not like the latest galaxy or iphone?
11:56 AM Tom_L: gotta have one today....
11:58 AM jym: Tom_L: You have to sleep outisde an Apple store 3 days before to get it today
11:58 AM JT-Shop: not me lol as long as the phone works I don't need a new one
11:59 AM Deejay: hi
11:59 AM jym: JT-Shop's mobile phone... https://www.esendex.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/retrophone.jpg
11:59 AM pcw_home: Yes, we use UDP for RT Ethernet
12:01 PM JT-Shop: pcw_home: I see you can 1 GB, 2 GB or 4 GB on the rpi4
12:01 PM pcw_home: 2G or 4G would be good (RPI3s 1G is a problem sometimes)
12:02 PM jym: pcw_home: the core install uses most of that?
12:02 PM pcw_home: (complex backplots use all of memory and OpenGL dies)
12:02 PM jym: ah
12:03 PM pcw_home: may not matter if you dont have complex profiling an want a backplot
12:04 PM CaptHindsight: i like to buffer an entire movie while running LCNC, so 4GB for me!
12:05 PM JT-Shop: https://github.com/jethornton/tkemc
12:05 PM jym: These were nice... car phone that converted to mobile (hand held) http://www.bochud.ch/images/panasonic.jpg
12:05 PM JT-Shop: a qtpyvcp with no backplot
12:06 PM jym: JT-ShopGUI wise, are those buttons big enough for fat finger touch screens?
12:11 PM JT-Shop: depends on your monitor...
12:13 PM jym: k
12:24 PM JT-Shop: and that's not a touch screen gui until you add a line of qss to make the buttons bigger
12:28 PM CaptHindsight: jym: I want to put a smartphone into a WWII field radio
12:29 PM CaptHindsight: or one of these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCR-536
12:29 PM jym: CaptHindsight: the wired field radios?
12:29 PM jym: Oh those, heh
12:30 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCR-300 I want to build a render farm/cluster computer in one of these
12:30 PM CaptHindsight: probably bigger since it will be battery powered
12:31 PM jym: CaptHindsight: not it you use li-ion
12:31 PM roycroft: put a smart phone in an old motorola brick phone
12:32 PM roycroft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_DynaTAC
12:34 PM Rab: I have heard that some of those old brick/bag phones are considered an EM radiation hazard now, with output power in the 1-3W range. I was not able to find info to substantiate that however.
12:35 PM Loetmichel: Rab: thats more of a question of definitoion
12:35 PM Loetmichel: IIRC GSM is 4W peak for phones and 8W peak for the towers
12:35 PM Loetmichel: or something in that ballpark
12:36 PM Rab: I'm guessing it would apply to handheld form factor, rather than bag phone with mobile antenna.
12:36 PM Loetmichel: depending on design of the cellphone it can have either godd or bad reception with either good or bad efficiency
12:36 PM Loetmichel: meaning there ARE some phones that have higher EIRP than others
12:36 PM roycroft: this was my first cell phone: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133002775602
12:36 PM Rab: Loetmichel, remember that those were analog.
12:37 PM Loetmichel: but in normal use they may even be LOWER radiating than others
12:37 PM roycroft: i got it in the late '80s
12:37 PM Loetmichel: Rab: those were even less "bad" because they didnt use packet transmission, so lower peaks
12:37 PM roycroft: that nokia phone had 1w output
12:37 PM Loetmichel: and even them had a power regulation feedback loop
12:37 PM roycroft: the hand-held phones at the time were 600mw
12:38 PM jym: roycroft: looks like a panasonic knock off
12:38 PM roycroft: and there were not may cell towers back then in my part of the world
12:38 PM roycroft: no, it's a nokia mobira
12:38 PM roycroft: that extra 400mw made a big difference
12:39 PM Rab: I remember seeing those phones or similar in the Rat Shack catalog, for thousands of dollars. Seemed completely unattainable.
12:39 PM roycroft: between bellingham (right by the canadian border, se of vancouver bc) and seattle there were a couple dozen dead zones along i5 when using a hand-held
12:39 PM roycroft: there was only one dead zone with the bag phone
12:39 PM roycroft: iirc it cost me about $800 at the time
12:39 PM roycroft: which is like ONE MILLION DOLLARS today :)
12:39 PM Rab: Along with similarly expensive Tandy PCs. ^_^
12:39 PM Rab: roycroft, how much was service? Was it metered in minutes?
12:39 PM roycroft: yes, it was metered in minutes
12:40 PM Loetmichel: Rab: and now we have mini computers on the belt with single digit GIPS processors, FullHD displays and loads of storage
12:40 PM roycroft: and if my memory serves me correctly, i was paying ~$400/month on average for service
12:40 PM Loetmichel: not to mention insanely fast data transfer
12:40 PM roycroft: i used it a lot though
12:40 PM Rab: roycroft, what was your line of business at the time, if I may ask?
12:40 PM Loetmichel: can you imagine giving some Motorola designer a modern cellphone back then? maybe with a wifi access point to it?
12:41 PM Loetmichel: that face... ;)
12:41 PM jym: roycroft: YOu call Tandy PC's expensive... https://i.imgur.com/vTjiBLd.jpg
12:41 PM roycroft: i was a unix systems sales support engineer, and was travelling every day to meet with customers
12:41 PM Rab: roycroft, sounds like quite the valid business expense.
12:41 PM roycroft: yes
12:41 PM roycroft: i was able to expense it all
12:41 PM roycroft: and it made sense to do it
12:42 PM Loetmichel: jym: pish... these were $20k each: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=6247&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
12:42 PM Loetmichel: ... back in 1993
12:42 PM Loetmichel: :-)
12:42 PM roycroft: i still had that bag phone in 1992 when i started my isp
12:42 PM Loetmichel: 2gb(!) scsi2
12:42 PM roycroft: i used to go out and do field demos of the internet service using a modem connected to the cell phone
12:43 PM jym: Loetmichel: NO SCUM C I, II, or III =)
12:43 PM Loetmichel: jym: fun fact: those two still run
12:43 PM Loetmichel: still no hard errors ;)
12:44 PM roycroft: i would demo the blazingly fast 14,400 baud modem service that customers could get using mosaic, after they installed the tcp/ip shim on their windows 3.1 machine :)
12:44 PM Rab: I had a bunch of these: http://yorgalily.org/photos/2010/SeagateSabre/
12:44 PM jym: Loetmichel: The fact that you have a working (AND in operation) SCSI controller is the bigger question =)
12:44 PM Loetmichel: i do
12:44 PM Rab: Gutted them and used the cases as enclosures. Serious cast aluminum.
12:45 PM jym: Loetmichel: COME TO THE DARK SIDE OF THE 21st CENTURY... we have cookies
12:45 PM roycroft: we used a lot of these back in the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujitsu_Eagle
12:45 PM roycroft: and i would not be surprised if many of them are still working
12:45 PM Loetmichel: jym: not on a production machine though
12:45 PM Loetmichel: they are in my old server
12:45 PM roycroft: the eagle was the most rock-solid hard drive i've ever used
12:46 PM Loetmichel: that still is in standby as a backup, should the main fileserver die
12:46 PM Loetmichel: at home
12:46 PM jym: Loetmichel: Ssso, you just use it as a space heater huh?
12:46 PM Loetmichel: you coud, if they were spinning
12:46 PM Loetmichel: they park after 10 minutes of no use though
12:47 PM Loetmichel: fun: you can see the CRT picture get smaller when they spin up synchronusly
12:47 PM Loetmichel: seems the VGA port uses 12V somewhere in its amplifiers
12:47 PM Loetmichel: ;)
12:47 PM roycroft: the eagles required 3 phase power, even though they "only" required 600w
12:48 PM roycroft: i remember that being an issue at several installations
12:51 PM jym: All my hard drives I've ever owned... https://i.imgur.com/UUyBwnJ.jpg
12:52 PM Loetmichel: jym: that fills 2 boards in my industrial rack here in the mancace
12:52 PM Loetmichel: mancave
12:52 PM Loetmichel: including a bunch of ST225 formatted to RLL (33MB)
12:52 PM Loetmichel: and most if not all of them are still in working condition
12:53 PM Loetmichel: <- cant let go of electronics ;)
12:53 PM Loetmichel: s/rack/storage rack
12:55 PM Rab: I've used several ST225s for enclosures: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/theremin/image/powersupply.jpg
12:55 PM Rab: Now they are collector's items...would be worth tens, if not dozens of dollars.
01:03 PM grantsmith: lol
01:03 PM grantsmith: thats awesome
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: cq cq cq dx ... cq cq cq dx
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_bHuCwKmkI
01:30 PM jym: Band change ASAP
01:43 PM jym: Tom_L: The quenching worked, thanks.
01:43 PM Tom_L: nice
01:44 PM jym: Tom_L: I really didn't think there was ANY integrity left in it at all
01:44 PM Tom_L: it was just annealed
01:45 PM jym: and in the rain for a while
01:46 PM jym: If anyone is fighting ants... I read they love HFCS
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: banned in the UK
01:47 PM jym: Good ting we are not in the UK
01:49 PM jym: Dollar Tree "Honey Flavored Syrup"... HFCS + honey
01:49 PM gregcnc: how long until they get cancer and die?
01:50 PM jym: as soon as I set out the bait traps?
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: why are the ants so interested in you?
01:56 PM jym: There are 4 species of ants I'm dealing with primarily, plus it's the mountains
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: is there some way to redirect the energy from SJW's toward ant infestations?
02:00 PM jym: SJW ???
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Social%20Justice%20Warrior
02:03 PM gloops: ants are wasps without wings
02:05 PM jym: gloops: If that was the cassse, they would be dead already along with the wasps and yellowjackets
02:06 PM gloops: not necessarily
02:08 PM jym: Witht he stuff I use, everything else but the ants die
02:08 PM gloops: when wasps took the the ground they evolved resistance to different things
02:09 PM Rab: jym, for your consideration: http://www.anthillart.com/
02:09 PM gloops: jym probably a matter of neo-natal care
02:09 PM gloops: they aint feeding the babies the poison
02:09 PM jym: rob you ever watch the video making them?
02:10 PM jym: gloops: and that's why I'm changin up the formula
02:10 PM Rab: jym, affirmative, a grisly business.
02:13 PM jym: Hmmmm 8oz syrup + 1 oz of borax, I'm thinking that's too strong
02:14 PM gloops: wonder of ants have nematodes
02:15 PM gloops: https://www.garden4less.co.uk/nemasys-no-ants-ant-killer.asp?partner=fr&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6cHoBRDdARIsADiTTza92QNSYRpqXhBbMTz9mcEzBv_qq4r-B2Hq_eROs6J8Ba54c1pPHwQaAlaHEALw_wcB
02:17 PM gloops: i just use petrol and a match if they start swarming outside
02:20 PM jym: gloops: Can't do that on a acre
02:21 PM jym: and still doesn't kill the nest, the wildfire was proof of that
02:21 PM gloops: an acre...ahh
02:29 PM jym: YAY got enough disposable containers to make 5 bait traps =)
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: any advice on using long thin end mills on aluminum?
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/whats-seceret-long-series-end-mills-154697/
02:57 PM SpeedEvil: 'use a shorter endmill instead'
02:58 PM JT-Shop: don't
03:06 PM Deejay: gn8
03:10 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, 3-flute?
03:11 PM jym: how long
04:23 PM jym: CaptHindsight: naked cast iron really sucking up cooking oil it seems =)
04:50 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, check into variable flute EM to help avoid chatter
05:00 PM _unreal_: swetting my ass off... OMG its hot out side
05:00 PM _unreal_: just mowed the lawn
05:00 PM _unreal_: South florida
05:01 PM jym: _unreal_: they have robots to do that now
05:02 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Nice tip, but this guy does some damn fine dutch oven cooking... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7w9B9_9-Ck
05:03 PM jym: CaptHindsight: I couldn't even stand near my fire yesterday, bout burned my legs =)
05:09 PM _unreal_: jym, I love cast iron. I have a LOT
05:09 PM jym: _unreal_: I do as well, but this is my first dutch oven
05:11 PM gloops: its funny warm here
05:11 PM gloops: its like the air is v warm, but theres no visible reason it should be
05:12 PM gloops: cloudly misty kind of day
05:22 PM jym: _unreal_: dmanit, just went out and looked, had a touch of surface rust in the last hour or so, just added more oil and letting it soak into the metal
05:22 PM jym: gloops: Sounds like storm weather
05:23 PM gloops: it feels like that, but the air is still, no big clouds or anything, just wishy washy grey
05:27 PM jym: gloops: BIG storm??? lol
05:34 PM gloops: nah cant see it
05:40 PM jym: The ants are LOVING that HFCS+honey+borax =)
06:09 PM perry_j1987: well i have an air compressor now
06:09 PM perry_j1987: old 80's century air compressor
06:09 PM perry_j1987: off craigslist
06:10 PM Tom_L: probably better than a new one
06:10 PM Tom_L: tank size?
06:12 PM perry_j1987: i havnt had chance to go all over it quite yet
06:12 PM perry_j1987: the guy got it in an acution
06:12 PM jym: perry_j1987: how mayn people did it take to carry it?
06:12 PM perry_j1987: drain cock busted off want to replace that and also add a safety valve
06:12 PM perry_j1987: two guys
06:12 PM gloops: check inside the tank
06:13 PM perry_j1987: inside the tank had some fine rust sludge
06:13 PM perry_j1987: i ran it up to about 20psi and opened the drain plug outside blasted a nice stream of rust painting 60' out heh
06:17 PM jym: perry_j1987: go for 100 ft next timee =)
06:17 PM perry_j1987: heh
06:18 PM perry_j1987: so now to figure what fittings and tubing i need for this mist coolant thing
06:18 PM Tom_L: 1/8 npt
06:19 PM perry_j1987: it has a ptc fitting threaded into it already and a ball valve
06:20 PM perry_j1987: no regulator on the thing either
06:21 PM perry_j1987: so going to add a few things like that to the thing but it was cheap 30 bucks heh
06:21 PM Tom_L: i mounted one to the wall
06:24 PM perry_j1987: ya thats a good idea instead of on the compressor
06:29 PM perry_j1987: this thing is pretty quiet though im liking it so far
06:36 PM CaptHindsight: I have a 1.5" outlet on the back of my 400 gal tank on wheels, takes off like a rocket
06:43 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Got rudder?
06:45 PM perry_j1987: lol
06:59 PM _unreal_: Sweet I found em.... 2x 22pf ceramic caps for the crystal on this board I'm building
06:59 PM _unreal_: The only thing I'm missing now I just dont have
07:00 PM _unreal_: and that is a 10k 8 resistor network "chip/resistor"
07:03 PM gloops: compressor is loud but not such a bad loud, he noise is not high pitched or nerve raking
07:10 PM sync: screw compressor ftw
07:11 PM * jym hands _unreal_ 2.3 feet of 40ga NiChrome wire
07:12 PM jym: it's the smallest gauge I have
07:16 PM _unreal_: just finished touching up a few solder points
07:16 PM _unreal_: and going over the board
07:16 PM _unreal_: and taking the rosin off
07:17 PM _unreal_: aside from the one part I'm missing that does not matter anyways because I'm not using the adapter YET that goes with it :)
07:17 PM _unreal_: now I just need to program My MCU/PIC CHIP and see if she works
07:17 PM _unreal_: :0
07:17 PM _unreal_: :)
07:17 PM _unreal_: I may need a beer
07:19 PM jym: it KILLS me every time I see a teflon coated pan used over a open fire
07:25 PM roycroft: i hate teflon coated pans, period
07:25 PM roycroft: except for my omlette pan
07:25 PM roycroft: i'm a big fan of le creuset cookware
07:26 PM roycroft: porcelain coated cast iron
07:26 PM roycroft: it's ideal
07:26 PM jym: teflon pans outgas at 550F, wanna guess what bacon gets up to temperature wise?
07:26 PM roycroft: pig++ ?
07:31 PM gloops: cast iron pans are self cleaning, if you leave them on the gas dry for 10 minutes
07:33 PM jym: I tested that theory yesterday.... https://i.imgur.com/YbUR2iv.jpg
07:34 PM roycroft: i have a piece of stainless steel chain maille that i use to clean my cast iron pans
07:34 PM roycroft: when i'm camping, if the pan gets really crusty i'll toss some sand in it and then scrub it with the chain maille
07:35 PM roycroft: the le creuset pans i do not ever scrub
07:35 PM roycroft: i take care not to let them get crusty
07:36 PM jym: I'll typically just boil water in tem too loosen up anything
07:36 PM roycroft: when one paying $200+ for a saucepan one is motivated to not abuse it
07:36 PM roycroft: one is, rather
07:37 PM jym: I would NEVER pay $200 for a pan, $60 for a pasta pot, strainer, steam and lid, but that's about it
07:37 PM roycroft: it's a lifetime investment
07:37 PM jym: A GOOD knife, that's another story
07:38 PM roycroft: and if taken care of will last well more than a lifetime
07:38 PM roycroft: the cookware really is amazing
07:38 PM roycroft: well worth the money, if you can afford it
07:41 PM jym: I probably still wouldn't get one
07:45 PM Tom_L: one would be crazy to spend $200+ on a pan
07:47 PM gloops: or on a car lol
07:53 PM jym: Where does he think we live... India? $200 car is way too expensive!!!
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: solid 316 SS pans
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: "from surgery to your table"
08:03 PM jym: .... with fava beans and a nice cianti
08:06 PM jym: BEST THING EVER https://i.imgur.com/h8C4Ydp.png
08:10 PM roycroft: i hate ss cookware
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: wooden cookware is only good for steaming, it chars easily and becomes part of the flame if kept over the heat too long
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: paper is good for baking
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: i like the look of copper
08:26 PM CaptHindsight: titanium is strong but pricey
08:26 PM CaptHindsight: magnesium can get exciting
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: but great if you need a really hot flame
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: lead is heavy, melts easily and tends to be poisonous
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: never tried brass cookware
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: the zinc leaches into water and food it comes in contact with
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: too much zinc in your diet can be a problem
08:35 PM Tom_L: clay
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: Earthenware is generally safe, you just have to watch out for heavy metals in the clay or inany glazing
08:40 PM jym: CaptHindsight: you forgot glass
08:40 PM CaptHindsight: no, I just don't like to talk about it
08:40 PM jym: CaptHindsight: flashbacks huh?
08:40 PM CaptHindsight: glass cookware, glass clothing, etc
08:41 PM jym: CaptHindsight: how much was the fine for wearing glass clothing in public?/
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/4XEJKi_ybAw?t=52
08:44 PM CaptHindsight: nearly 3 minute video but only 10 seconds showing the glass
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: Mic-6 only comes with a thickness tolerance of 0.005", do they use a 3d printer frame to mill them?
09:11 PM bjorkintosh: is this channel still active?
09:12 PM jym: no
09:12 PM bjorkintosh: excellent!
09:12 PM jym: Just dead people
09:12 PM jym: zombies even
09:12 PM bjorkintosh: is there a mazatrol interpreter somewhere?
09:12 PM bjorkintosh: (besides on mazaks)
09:13 PM bjorkintosh: the damned thing reads and writes to an inscrutable format. can't make heads or tails.
09:14 PM bjorkintosh: jym, do you use linuxcnc?
09:15 PM CaptHindsight: it does quiet down by this time of the day
09:16 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: hey, what was that anodize dye you suggest again? the solvent based stuff
09:17 PM CaptHindsight: http://bucktownpolymers.com/anodize00.html
09:18 PM CaptHindsight: bjorkintosh: https://www.solution-ware.com/modules/mazatrol/diagram.html
09:19 PM tiwake: hmm
09:19 PM tiwake: thanks :3
09:19 PM tiwake: starting to think about getting back into it
09:20 PM tiwake: now that crap is starting to get paid off
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: the standard stuff is water thin
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: we can make it as thick as honey
09:20 PM tiwake: as thick as glass?
09:21 PM tiwake: XD
09:22 PM jym: CaptHindsight: what is the hot/cold "sealing" they speak of?
09:22 PM tiwake: I kinda wish color scheme for stuff like this was compatible with HSA
09:23 PM tiwake: instead of RGB or CYM
09:23 PM tiwake: oh well
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: how do I say this https://convertacolor.com/
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_converter.asp
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: colour space
09:28 PM jym: -u
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_space
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: jym: nah I done likes the brits version
09:30 PM jym: ok
11:47 PM CaptHindsight: jym: you wanta da oxides to form properly on the anodize
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: you nedah hot water close-ah to 99C or youse gottah have sometin like a nickel fluoride to seal at cold temperatures
11:51 PM CaptHindsight: jym: here'sah article onna dah colda sealing https://www.pfonline.com/articles/selecting-the-best-anodizing-seal-process-