#linuxcnc Logs

May 16 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:24 AM CaptHindsight: it's not the organic solvents that are bad for you, it's the Isocyanates
01:29 AM pink_vampire: the drill is 62 lb/in
01:29 AM pink_vampire: that is about 1000 oz/in
01:29 AM pink_vampire: the speed is 400 rpm
01:30 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W395Kyz6PXo
01:35 AM pink_vampire: the box fan motor only make 22 oz/in
01:36 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ?
02:06 AM Deejay: moin
04:20 AM XXCoder: hey pink_vampire whats up[
04:21 AM pink_vampire: not so good
04:21 AM pink_vampire: i need a motor
04:23 AM XXCoder: something died?
04:25 AM pink_vampire: no, the bandwas is sooo noisy
04:26 AM pink_vampire: saw*
04:28 AM pingufan: Hello. I have a little CNC mill. The PC is based on a VIA C7 1500 MHz board. It works fine, but I have to stick with an relative old Ubuntu8 based image. Newer versions don't support the graphcs (onboard). But even this Ubuntu8 draws a vertical bar of 10 mm over AXIS window.
04:29 AM pingufan: How is the support of this hardware in new versions of linuxcnc?
04:29 AM XXCoder: get a good video card and disable onboard
04:29 AM XXCoder: it polls cpu
04:29 AM pink_vampire: try a live cd / live usb
04:29 AM XXCoder: and yeah live cd/usb is good way to test compitblity
04:30 AM pingufan: This is a super small PC with only one PCI socket inside. I think onboard graphics is better that that. :)
04:30 AM XXCoder: whats your latency like?
04:31 AM pingufan: Not so bad.
04:31 AM XXCoder: cool :) well live cd or usb is simple way to test
04:31 AM XXCoder: see if it works
04:31 AM pingufan: Sometimes I gat a warning, but I never had any noticable physical issue caused by that.
04:31 AM pingufan: ... get ...
04:32 AM pink_vampire: you can get a pci video card
04:32 AM pingufan: This is for sure slower than onboard.
04:32 AM pingufan: What chipset should I look for? nvidia, ati, ... ?
04:33 AM XXCoder: nvidida does have better driver support usually
04:34 AM pingufan: But it will never be some kind of powerful. Do you remember how old AGP is? And this came _after_ PCI. (This is no PCIe !!!)
04:34 AM Loetmichel: pingufan: slower is of no issue
04:35 AM Loetmichel: the point is that the onboard gpus of those old systems have issues with interrupt hogging, causing latency errors
04:35 AM XXCoder: indeed
04:35 AM Loetmichel: and the gpu CARDs usually do not
04:35 AM pingufan: The funny thing is: Only inside the black frame (where you see the job graphically) has this blach bar.
04:36 AM Loetmichel: yeah, driver support for old and obscure GPU chips isnt really good in recent linuxes
04:36 AM pingufan: How is support of 32 bit systems at all now ?
04:36 AM Loetmichel: had that problem with a server myself... other effect but similar issue: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15416&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:36 AM Loetmichel: the pink discoloration at the bottom
04:37 AM Loetmichel: you can still download x86 versions of most distributions
04:37 AM Loetmichel: so not that bad
04:37 AM Loetmichel: i honestly dont know if there is a linuxCNC livecd with 32 bit though
04:38 AM Loetmichel: any more
04:38 AM pingufan: I have a sharp black vertical bar of ~10mm width inside the black realtime display. The displaying of the job does not show up in this bar.
04:38 AM XXCoder: my linuxcnc pc is 13 years old
04:38 AM pingufan: So again, never touch a running system ...
04:38 AM XXCoder: videocard is of similiar age, 17k latency not too bad :)
04:40 AM pingufan: Are all linuxcnc images based on ubuntu?
04:40 AM pink_vampire: no
04:40 AM pink_vampire: now it is based on debian
04:41 AM pingufan: What window manager?
04:41 AM pink_vampire: xfce
04:41 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13089&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- not THAT shabby for a 3ghz P4 with only 1gb ram :-)
04:42 AM pingufan: So it is more gnome-alike or more kde-alike?
04:42 AM XXCoder: yours is quite more together in terms of hardware yeah. mine is quite a bit high end than that.
04:42 AM XXCoder: 8 gb ram, high end gamer video card, etc. it was my former pc after all
04:43 AM Loetmichel: industrial PC
04:43 AM Loetmichel: and old version of LinuxCNC of course
04:43 AM Loetmichel: you see the date below :-)
04:43 AM pingufan: I am milling with 800 MHz 1-core 32 Bit!
04:43 AM XXCoder: 7 years
04:43 AM Loetmichel: but it was runnign well for years that way in a CNC machine for a coworker
04:44 AM XXCoder: yeah production you want very little changes
04:44 AM Loetmichel: managed to get that industrial PC into the base: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13131&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:44 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13149&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:45 AM Loetmichel: 1mm space left in the lower compartment "wideness" though
04:47 AM Loetmichel: was a fun project, built it out of leftovers from other CNC projects
04:47 AM pingufan: I use mini-ITX mainboards based on AMD A10 soldered directly on the board. Is this ok? Uses ATi graphics.
04:47 AM XXCoder: i have leftovers im not sure what to do with
04:47 AM XXCoder: 2 sets of 600mm supported bar rails, 2 smaller
04:48 AM XXCoder: as well as set of ballscrews
04:48 AM pingufan: Build a laser cutter!
04:49 AM pingufan: But then I would direct drive the head with the T5 timing belt.
04:49 AM XXCoder: ballscrews is bit slow for that yea
04:49 AM XXCoder: thats why so amny 3d printers dont use ballscrews or any kind of screws besides from z
04:50 AM * Loetmichel once hat a commercian CNC engracer that used 1/2" ballscrews with 2tpi
04:50 AM Loetmichel: that worked QUITE fast ;)
04:50 AM Loetmichel: engraver
04:51 AM XXCoder: 2 twist per inch?
04:51 AM Loetmichel: may even have been 1.5 turns per inch
04:51 AM XXCoder: dang
04:52 AM Loetmichel: thre "thread was at like 45° angle
04:53 AM pingufan: Direct drive is not so bad and extremely fast. Repeating precision is better than 0.1 mm (usually).
04:53 AM XXCoder: depends on project needs but thats usually fine for wood stuff
04:54 AM Loetmichel: pingufan: i made a small CNC mill out of an old dispenser bot
04:54 AM pingufan: I always take steppers from old bad laserprinters. Seppers usually don't get boken. This way I harvested 2 very strong and big ones recently. :)
04:54 AM Loetmichel: that used a "corexy" style drive with steel wires
04:54 AM pingufan: Do you have a picture?
04:55 AM Loetmichel: max feed: 15000mm per minute... quite scary.
04:55 AM XXCoder: pics or its expensive production cnc machine
04:55 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10465&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:55 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYgyqjHCBLg
04:56 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: enough pics?
04:56 AM Loetmichel: :-)
04:56 AM XXCoder: few hundreds sure heh
04:56 AM XXCoder: 30 fps thats few minutes ;)
04:57 AM XXCoder: thats quite fast for in house made cnc
04:58 AM XXCoder: it looks like twice as fast as small haas at work
04:58 AM Tom_L: morning
04:59 AM XXCoder: im... jaded. using big machines for years now lol
04:59 AM XXCoder: hey tom
04:59 AM Loetmichel: it had the tendecy to "wander off the desk" if there was some dust under its rubber feet
04:59 AM pingufan: What is your experience with coreXY ?
04:59 AM Loetmichel: in that machine: fine
05:00 AM Loetmichel: the "dremel" (proxxon FBS 230) limits the milling forces anyways because of only 100W motor that stalls easy
05:01 AM pingufan: I built a 3d printer with build size of 400x200x180 mm (LxWxH) in conventional X/Y/Z way. Works nice, but it is too small. My new one will have a build-room of 500mm in cube. But I think about using there a coreXY to reduce mass.
05:02 AM pingufan: My CNC mill is a modified GRAVOTECH VX. A very solid beast and horribly heavy. It also has 100-200W motor only. But it is very precisely because of its all-metal build.
05:02 AM Loetmichel: morning Tom_L
05:03 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: yay update on black 3.0, they are packing orders for everyone now! :D soon
05:03 AM pink_vampire: cooool
05:03 AM pink_vampire: did you got the pink?
05:03 AM XXCoder: yep
05:04 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UwUmcNkh4w this?
05:04 AM pink_vampire: is it worth it?
05:05 AM XXCoder: pingufan: is it the machine shown in that video? or like it
05:06 AM pingufan: Yes, this one. But I removed this funny holder by a plate with T-Slots over the entire footprint of the machine.
05:06 AM pingufan: The only disadvantage is that it can only move 60mm in Z.
05:07 AM XXCoder: wow thats actually shorter than my cnc router
05:07 AM pingufan: But it has GECKO Drives in the right chamber
05:11 AM pingufan: But it is extremely precise. 30mm round rods as rails for Y !!!
05:11 AM pingufan: Everything casted aluminum.
05:11 AM pingufan: This baby is close to 50kg !
05:11 AM XXCoder: dang
05:11 AM Loetmichel: pingufan: talking about heavy: 300kg "wood" and steel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:11 AM pingufan: I also replaced this default spingle by a Kress one (behind the hood is a 2nd stage of drive belt.
05:11 AM Loetmichel: but can travel 1700*1200*160mm ;)
05:13 AM Loetmichel: pingufan: like i have mine at home.
05:13 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
05:13 AM Loetmichel: its not a gantry one though
05:14 AM pingufan: I usually use end cutters (rectange shaped tip) of 1mm ... 3.175 mm. Most of the time I use 1mm. This is horribly thin, they easily break.
05:17 AM Loetmichel: indeed
05:17 AM Loetmichel: ditch that kress, get one of the chinese watercooled spindles
05:17 AM pingufan: I bought 100s of then in China 1mm x 12 mm (cutting depth), 1-flute.
05:17 AM Loetmichel: and let someone grind the ER11 cone true to the shaft
05:17 AM Loetmichel: works a LOT better for <0.5mm tungsten carbide mill bits
05:17 AM Loetmichel: the kress collets and shaft have a way to high runout for those small bit
05:17 AM Loetmichel: s
05:17 AM pingufan: I use only the spindle of a kress. The front part with collet and front bearing. I pressed in a 8mm steel rod on the back. All that is inside a self-turned tube, holding both bearings (also the loose-bearing in rear).
05:18 AM Loetmichel: interesting approach
05:18 AM Loetmichel: should indeed work, too
05:18 AM pingufan: I already thought about buying a direct drive spindle. I want to have much higher rpm than 15.000.
05:19 AM Loetmichel: but the fact that the spindle and the collets for kress have quite a bit of runout remains
05:19 AM pingufan: Such small diameter gives only very low cutting speed, so I can mill only very slowly.
05:19 AM XXCoder: or very high rpm if can
05:19 AM pingufan: Yes, noise (= vibrations) is relatively high.
05:20 AM pingufan: I cannot exceed 15000 rpm with this kind of motor and drive belts. :(
05:20 AM pingufan: But I couldn't find a brushless motor with usable outside diameter and collet in front.
05:22 AM Loetmichel: pingufan: i like these: https://www.ebay.de/itm/0-8KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-ER11-FOUR-BEARING-MATCHING-INVERTER-DRIVE-VFD/253587837353
05:22 AM pingufan: Diameter 35mm would directly fit into the machine head
05:24 AM Loetmichel: noise isnt that much of an issue but small mill bits simply break off if the collet doesent run true to the center of the shaft
05:24 AM Loetmichel: thats called "runout"
05:24 AM pingufan: The machine head has a half-cylinder reciption for 35mm and uses a saddle to clamp the spindle.
05:25 AM pingufan: When using a motor of this diameter, I do not have to replace the entire machine head.
05:26 AM pingufan: But 35mm is very thin. Most motors are thicker.
05:26 AM Loetmichel: indeed
05:28 AM pingufan: If somebody could rework my machine head (mill a bigger radius in), it would help.
05:29 AM pingufan: I can disassemble the head. It has to be clamped down and then get a bigger radius milled as front reciption.
05:30 AM pingufan: So it matches the thinnest standard diameter.
05:32 AM pingufan: I.e. for this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/500W-Brushless-Spindle-Motor-Air-Cooled-Spindle-ER11-55MM-Bracket-DC-48V-Machine-Tool-Router-For/32973123263.html?spm=2114.search0604.3.52.1daf27a6gFtZ0e&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_8_10065_10068_10547_319_317_10548_10696_10084_453_10083_454_10618_10304_10307_10820_10821_537_10302_536_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=133839c6-da7f-43b2-b2b7-
05:32 AM pingufan: f1b4d63ed19b-10&algo_pvid=133839c6-da7f-43b2-b2b7-f1b4d63ed19b&transAbTest=ae803_3
05:33 AM pingufan: (This is 55 mm)
05:33 AM XXCoder: dat url heh
05:33 AM pingufan: ?
05:33 AM jthornton: morning
05:33 AM XXCoder: you can essentally skip part of url past ?
05:33 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
05:34 AM XXCoder: looks like bbit better AND cheaper than my router spindle
05:34 AM XXCoder: it will have small amount of runout due to er11 being bolted on into spindle shift
05:37 AM pingufan: I will show you a picture of my VX head.
05:39 AM pingufan: Look here: http://www.hantsch.co.at/_temp/VX-HEAD.jpg
05:40 AM XXCoder: the black thing is spindle, and motor is inside head back there, connected by belt?
05:40 AM pingufan: This is a self-milled saddle, clamping the self built spindle.
05:40 AM pingufan: No, this ribs are for getting away the heat from front bearing.
05:41 AM pingufan: This is a 2-stage drive belt. the green belt is 2nd stage.
05:41 AM Loetmichel: pingufan: try THAT approach then: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12821&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:41 AM pingufan: The motor is behind
05:41 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12773
05:41 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12846
05:42 AM Loetmichel: ... just with a belt pulley and an ER11 collet holder with 8mm shaft instead of the proxxon haft i used.
05:42 AM Loetmichel: those: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13221&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- dirt cheap on ebay
05:42 AM pingufan: I don't see any advantage in this
05:43 AM Loetmichel: because its more precise than the kress shaft and collet holder
05:43 AM Loetmichel: runout wise
05:43 AM pingufan: I have no lathe to make the tube for holding the bearings.
05:43 AM Loetmichel: and the 8mm bearings can do 40kRPM no problem if you buy ceramic ones for roller skates/skateboards
05:44 AM pingufan: The biggest problem is this hige KRESS bearing. D=32mm. This bearing runs hot.
05:44 AM Loetmichel: indeed
05:44 AM Loetmichel: thats why i said: use the 8mm skate bearings
05:44 AM Loetmichel: they have 22mm outer diamenter
05:44 AM pingufan: Thinner bearings would make it lots better.
05:45 AM Loetmichel: and work great if you have small loads anyway
05:46 AM pingufan: But for sufficient precision I need a distance between bearings of at least 50 mm. No?
05:46 AM pingufan: What kind of machinery do you have?
05:46 AM Loetmichel: about that, yes
05:46 AM pingufan: Perhaps also a lathe?
05:46 AM Loetmichel: a ver small lathe, yes
05:47 AM Loetmichel: and a few CNC routers/mills
05:47 AM pingufan: Mine is an "EMCO Unimat 3". A real toy.
05:47 AM Loetmichel: VERY small lathe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J40p8dMZZk&t=37s
05:47 AM pingufan: This is huge compared to mine.
05:47 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14058
05:47 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:47 AM Loetmichel: it isnt
05:48 AM Loetmichel: unimat3 is bigger
05:48 AM Loetmichel: just not as high
05:48 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=520 <- thats a 50cm steel ruler there ;)
05:48 AM pingufan: But mine has two 12mm steel rods as bed. Such model I have. From 60s/70s, I guess.
05:49 AM pingufan: Horrible. It always tends to rattle.
05:49 AM Loetmichel: IIRC its 16mm steel rods on the unimat
05:50 AM Loetmichel: and they only rattle if not adjusted properly
05:50 AM pingufan: Wait, I measure...
05:51 AM pingufan: 12mm _measured_ is distance of ~50-60 mm
05:51 AM pingufan: And no hardened steel from what I see :D
05:53 AM * Loetmichel had an unimat SL at one time WAY better than that red china crap
05:53 AM pingufan: Your lathe appears to be very stiff. I can _hear_ that watching where you turn the fuse-adapter.
05:53 AM pingufan: Anyway.
05:53 AM Loetmichel: the bed is stiff, but it doesent help that the saddle can move UP
05:54 AM Loetmichel: its not fixed to the bed
05:54 AM Loetmichel: it just riodes on it
05:55 AM pingufan: My fist idea was to take a chinese spindle as you showed me. Only axle with pre-mounted ER11 chuck. But this has no effect on rpm. The motor in back, together with this 2-stage drive belt, ends up at 15000 rpm
05:56 AM Loetmichel: https://www.ebay.de/itm/283460151093 i had one like this
05:56 AM pingufan: Exactly! Mine is an unimat SL.
05:56 AM Loetmichel: turn a bigger second stage belt pulley
05:56 AM pingufan: 120 Watts only!
05:58 AM pingufan: My SL is entirely black, this is the older version (before the green one).
05:59 AM pingufan: I also thought about replacing the steel rods by hardened and grinded ones. But try to cut a thread into such material...
05:59 AM Loetmichel: it was just a (not) recommondation on buying those chinese "C0" lathes. DONT.
05:59 AM pingufan: I don't.
05:59 AM pingufan: I am technician enough to see their weaknesses on first view.
05:59 AM Loetmichel: good :)
06:00 AM pingufan: What do you think about air cooled brushless motors?
06:00 AM Loetmichel: works well if you oversize them enough
06:01 AM pingufan: They could go up to really high rpm. But I have no idea about their temperature, weight, ...
06:01 AM Loetmichel: and get a kind of coupling ion between the shaft and the ER11 collet holder
06:01 AM Loetmichel: or mount the brushless on rubber mounts
06:01 AM pingufan: coupling is mandatory when the shaft has a 2-point bearing.
06:02 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11519
06:02 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=436
06:02 AM Loetmichel: the latter one is a 50krpm 1.2kW inrunner
06:02 AM Loetmichel: that worked REALLY well
06:02 AM pingufan: This is an RC brushless, right?
06:02 AM Loetmichel: yes
06:02 AM pingufan: How did you get the heat away?
06:03 AM Loetmichel: oversize it factor 4
06:03 AM Loetmichel: so if you need a few 100W use a 1-2kw motor
06:03 AM Loetmichel: it will be able to stay cool enough at that power level
06:03 AM Loetmichel: without any fans
06:04 AM pingufan: And then I use a simple RC motor controller for them?
06:04 AM pingufan: As used in RC airplanes or RC cars?
06:05 AM pingufan: A nice approach.
06:05 AM Loetmichel: yes
06:06 AM Loetmichel: and a BIIIG DC PSU
06:06 AM Loetmichel: :-)
06:06 AM pingufan: But they need more than 100A on input then, or what did you measure?
06:07 AM Loetmichel: quote of the manufacturer of the inrunner (hacker) "yes, the motor will do 100krpm, will need new bearing every now and then though"
06:07 AM Loetmichel: 50krpm is guranteed ;)
06:07 AM Loetmichel: not that much
06:08 AM Loetmichel: the hacker has 1.2kW at 6S aka 24V
06:08 AM Loetmichel: so 24V 50A DC smps is sufficient
06:08 AM pingufan: Sounds interesting. There are also brushless motors on the market with steady shaft (rotating outside). Better?
06:08 AM Loetmichel: outrunners turn slower
06:09 AM Loetmichel: inrunners are faster usually
06:09 AM Loetmichel: look for the "K/V" value, it means unloaded RPM per volt supply
06:09 AM pingufan: But outrunners have better cooling because they have a perforated enclosure, no?
06:09 AM Loetmichel: but outrunners have more torque
06:09 AM Loetmichel: yes
06:10 AM pingufan: And how do i get a stable rpm with such motors?
06:10 AM Loetmichel: but if you overrate the motor factor 4 or more thats not an issue anyways
06:10 AM Loetmichel: get a "heli" ESC
06:10 AM Loetmichel: in Helimode they have a rpm governor
06:11 AM pingufan: Of what money are we talking here?
06:11 AM Loetmichel: so the RC signal only controls the rpm, the power needed for that is then calculated by the ESC itself
06:11 AM Loetmichel: less than 100 eur
06:11 AM Loetmichel: plus PSU
06:11 AM pingufan: motor and controllers in total?
06:11 AM Loetmichel: for motor, bearings, ESC AND ER11 shaft
06:12 AM pingufan: So the brushless is actually a 3-phase alternating current motor. This should end in relatively stable rpm. Right?
06:12 AM pingufan: Notz sensitive on load.
06:14 AM pingufan: The major question is: Can my old linuxcnc perhaps control the rpm in some way?
06:15 AM pingufan: I can also involve a little PIC microcontroller with USB. If linuxcnc can tell the controller the wanted rpm, the pic can generate the pwm by itself.
06:16 AM pingufan: Good or bad idea?
06:17 AM Loetmichel: pingufan: yes
06:17 AM pingufan: I also wonder about which clutch will survive 50000 rpm...
06:18 AM Loetmichel: you can configure to put out PWM signals that are 0,5ms to 1,5ms pulses with 50hz IIRC
06:18 AM Loetmichel: thats RC signal
06:19 AM pingufan: And this is stable enough (-> jitter)?
06:20 AM Loetmichel: pingufan: a normal ESC for those brushless motors commutate the motor at a fixed power. so the motor has indeed load variance in that mode. Thats why heli ESCs have a "heli mode" where the PWM signal determines RPM and NOT power and the ESC uses as much pwoer as needed to reach that RPM
06:20 AM Loetmichel: jitter is irrelevant
06:20 AM Loetmichel: the rpm cant follow fast enough anyways
06:21 AM pingufan: Sounds perfect.
06:21 AM Loetmichel: with model servos you would hear them "growl" if the PWM has jitter but for an ESC that dosent have any bad effects
06:22 AM pingufan: What voltage do such ESCs allow on input side? It is long ago that I had RC airplanes. At that time nothing of that was on the market at all.
06:22 AM pingufan: Higher voltage -> lower current.
06:22 AM Loetmichel: depends on the motor
06:23 AM Loetmichel: they usually have "2-3S" or "6-8S" ratings or similar
06:23 AM Loetmichel: "S" meaning: count of 3,7V lithium cells in series
06:24 AM pingufan: So a 8S = 8*3.7V = ~30V
06:24 AM SpeedEvil: moderately commonly available go up to 10s
06:25 AM SpeedEvil: (42V)
06:26 AM pingufan: So curent is not such high at all. 200-300W / 40V = 5-6 A then
06:27 AM Loetmichel: yes
06:27 AM pingufan: heli controllers I googled right now start at 100
06:28 AM Loetmichel: try on hobbyking.com
06:28 AM jthornton: Joe_Hildreth: I'm just installing Lubuntu and I'm liking the options
06:29 AM pingufan: How can one like something on ubuntu? (rofl)
06:30 AM jthornton: it's not ubuntu
06:31 AM pingufan: Loetmichel: Such one? https://hobbyking.com/de_de/multistar-32bit-20a-0-lite-before-is-18a.html
06:31 AM * jthornton can't stand ubuntu
06:31 AM Loetmichel: https://hobbyking.com/de_de/hobbyking-red-brick-70a-esc-1.html
06:31 AM Loetmichel: (yes, it has a heli mode)
06:32 AM pingufan: Heli mode is set by jumper?
06:33 AM Loetmichel: programming button and throttle stick
06:33 AM Loetmichel: look into files, there is the manual
06:33 AM pingufan: What a brutal german translation...
06:33 AM SpeedEvil: open-source /hacked firmware controllers are also available with random different features and connectivities other than '20ms ppm'
06:33 AM Loetmichel: yes, for some models indeed
06:34 AM Loetmichel: those ESCs DO need a fan though
06:34 AM Loetmichel: if they operate in "teillast"
06:34 AM SpeedEvil: If not very underrated
06:34 AM Loetmichel: (no idea whats that in english)
06:34 AM SpeedEvil: moving air?
06:35 AM pingufan: I was wondering about that. Do they need a forced ait flow or is a simple decent fan sufficient?
06:35 AM Loetmichel: no, "teillast"
06:35 AM Loetmichel: in my experience a small 40mm fan aimed at the (de-shrinkwrapped) ESC is sufficient even at worst case 50% load/throttle
06:36 AM pingufan: This is the "heli mode" ? Support the func tion of fixed speed
06:38 AM Loetmichel: yes
06:38 AM Loetmichel: https://hobbyking.com/de_de/turnigy-xk3674-2200kv-1750w-brushless-inrunner.html <- i would recommend THAT motor
06:39 AM pingufan: I already browse through the manual. HK-60A is rated 2-4 LiPo
06:39 AM Loetmichel: and a beefy 24V 50A PSU for that
06:39 AM Loetmichel: 4s is a bit small
06:39 AM pingufan: I tend to use higher voltages.
06:40 AM pingufan: Do this ESCs have soft-start?
06:40 AM Loetmichel: the link i did was a 7S one
06:40 AM Loetmichel: https://hobbyking.com/de_de/hobbyking-red-brick-70a-esc-1.html
06:40 AM Loetmichel: kind of
06:40 AM Loetmichel: they do ramp up
06:40 AM Loetmichel: or did you mean at plug in`?
06:41 AM pingufan: So i do not have an extreme rush-in current. That is good.
06:41 AM Loetmichel: there: nope, they draw quite an impressive spark when you plug them into a 6S battery
06:41 AM Loetmichel: charing their caps
06:41 AM Loetmichel: but not that bad when connected to a PSU that also ramps up
06:41 AM Loetmichel: no inrush limiter needed
06:41 AM pingufan: If the ESC is connected permanently to the PS and I torn mains side of the PS on...
06:41 AM Loetmichel: (but for the PSU ;)
06:42 AM Loetmichel: yes, works
06:42 AM Loetmichel: IF the PSU itself has inrushlimiters
06:46 AM pingufan: What kind of clutch would you use? Claw cluth with rubber cushions?
06:47 AM jthornton: wow lubuntu minimal is really minimal it uninstalls everything almost
06:47 AM Loetmichel: made mine myself: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12834
06:47 AM pingufan: I usually use openSuSE Leap. This is the other end...
06:47 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12846
06:48 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12821&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- seen the drawing?
06:48 AM Loetmichel: PE was a bad idea though, Rubber is the way to go
06:49 AM pingufan: EPDM you mean?
06:50 AM Loetmichel: no idea, it was a bunch of 50mm diameter "rubber" enclosure feet i milled down for the stars
06:50 AM Loetmichel: smelled like burning car tyres for sure
06:50 AM pingufan: Then it is EPDM if it was black.
06:50 AM Loetmichel: 30mm diameter
06:51 AM Loetmichel: look at the pictures
06:51 AM Loetmichel: one of the feet is there ;)
06:51 AM pingufan: Did you mill them from aluminum rod?
06:52 AM pingufan: But looks nice, indeed.
06:54 AM pingufan: what is the maximum rpm in heli mode the ESC allows?
07:04 AM Loetmichel: yes
07:04 AM Loetmichel: depends on the motor
07:04 AM Loetmichel: poles
07:04 AM Loetmichel: usually about 30 to 50khz "3hree phase RPM"
07:05 AM pingufan: This is really fast then...
07:08 AM pingufan: Well, I think I will do it as you suggested. First I will make a new spindle with a pulley on its back side. When this runs smoothly and without outrun, I still can do the next step when rpm is too low.
07:12 AM Loetmichel: yes
07:13 AM Loetmichel: pingufan: https://www.amazon.de/C8-ER11A-100L-Verl%C3%A4ngerungsstange-Zylinderschaft-Spannfutter-Drehmaschine/dp/B076X3YPVD/ref=sr_1_8
07:14 AM Loetmichel: those are pretty precise and take 8mm standard skate bearings
07:15 AM pingufan: And they are the same as from aliexpress but arrive quickly. :D
07:15 AM Loetmichel: indeed
07:16 AM pingufan: did you have to force the bearings on the shaft, orare they smoothly sliding?
07:19 AM Loetmichel: smooth
08:17 AM beachbumpete1: Hey guys good morning... have any of you ever used the WinAMC program to drip feed a machine?
09:00 AM Tom_L: beachbumpete1 no but we do have other dnc software
09:02 AM Tom_L: realterm _would_ do it
09:03 AM Tom_L: i used that on an old machine for my friend because you can add delay into the serial stream which it needed to be reliable
09:03 AM Tom_L: @4800 baud :)
09:04 AM Tom_L: he had been using hyperterm but it got to where it wouldn't work
09:15 AM Tom_L: beachbumpete1, by Lincoln Electric? ... never heard of it
09:15 AM Tom_L: you can set realterm up to do just about anything though
09:20 AM beachbumpete1: Hey Tom
09:20 AM beachbumpete1: actually the program was for our control on the router
09:20 AM beachbumpete1: it uses an AMCb control
09:20 AM beachbumpete1: it has a max file size of 200kb which is nothing
09:20 AM beachbumpete1: so we have to drip feed larger programs into it
09:21 AM beachbumpete1: they sent me a copy of this WinAMC program
09:21 AM beachbumpete1: setting it uip now
09:21 AM beachbumpete1: the machine has run many programs for us now but most are smaller just plywood profile programs well under the 200k size
09:22 AM beachbumpete1: we are now needing to run some larger 3d files on it and it chokes on them
09:22 AM beachbumpete1: gotta set it up in the machines control computer that is linked to the control ...it is NOT the control
09:23 AM beachbumpete1: but it is used to upload programs into and from the control
09:23 AM beachbumpete1: it is housed in a large podium like box that has a screen and keyboard etc..
09:24 AM beachbumpete1: the machines control has a pendant that is where you operate the machine from for the most part
09:24 AM beachbumpete1: I am going to go over to the shop now and start setting this up.
09:24 AM beachbumpete1: If I run into a problem maybe I can log in here on my phone and ask questions... tech support is less than stellar.. :)
09:26 AM beachbumpete1: Thanks for the suggestions
09:32 AM elmo40: beachbumpete1, did you get the wood worm paths all converted to g-code?
11:56 AM FinboySlick: It's Lord Pete the Latheless.
11:58 AM Tom_L: beachbumpete1 i assume it's a serial link
11:58 AM Tom_L: if so they will either use ack nak or xon xoff for flow control
11:59 AM Tom_L: one is hardware one is software
11:59 AM Tom_L: if it's software, you may need to jumper the pins on the D plug to make it work
12:06 PM Tom_L: https://www.windmill.co.uk/handshaking.html
12:07 PM Tom_L: so if it sits there and gives you a dumb look it's probably waiting for some sort of handshaking
12:08 PM Tom_L: since it's proprietary software maybe it will 'just work'sm
12:08 PM mozmck: Joe_Hildreth: I pushed the changes to configure and config.in to support ubuntu 16.04 and 18.04 to the 2.7 branch
12:08 PM Tom_L: mozmck for the time thing?
12:09 PM Tom_L: no that would likely be something else..
12:09 PM mozmck: Tom_L: no, this is just to allow building on 18.04
12:09 PM mozmck: The time thing will be a little later after I finish and test it.
12:09 PM Tom_L: i would hope you might push that timer comp to 2.7 :)
12:10 PM mozmck: I plan to - but have to make sure it doesn't break any existing setup using it.
12:10 PM Tom_L: yeah
12:10 PM Tom_L: i generally pay attention to it on the first part then ignore it
12:27 PM SpeedEvil: https://i.imgur.com/I99Wsgr.jpg my new toolchanger.
12:44 PM matic292_: Hello
12:44 PM matic292_: I just made fresh install linuxcnc
12:45 PM matic292_: the PC is not connected on PC
12:45 PM matic292_: Im getting problems when PC is booting up
12:45 PM matic292_: i get this kind of problem: a start job is running for raise network interfaces
12:45 PM matic292_: and it takes 5 minutes
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: anyone know part numbers for new currently available cpu/mainboard combos that work well with LCNC and ethernet Mesa cards?
01:44 PM beachbumpete1: Tom_L: I was over at the other building looking at this problem/
01:45 PM beachbumpete1: I THINK the machine is already configured correctly for the communications
01:45 PM beachbumpete1: I say that because the way you load a program into the machine is thru a program called Onsrud DNC and it uses a serial comm setup
01:45 PM beachbumpete1: it works great and we load programs all the time with it.
01:46 PM beachbumpete1: this is just another program that will use the same setup
01:46 PM beachbumpete1: only difference is the WinAMC program has just two settings
01:46 PM beachbumpete1: the comm port setting and the speed
01:47 PM beachbumpete1: the speed setting is just slow medium or fast
01:47 PM beachbumpete1: no specific speed settings
01:48 PM beachbumpete1: initially it seemed to connect
01:49 PM beachbumpete1: in fact it did connect because when I close the program the display on the pendant for the control says lost connection or something
01:49 PM beachbumpete1: the company that makes the machine wants like 7k dollars to have someone come down here and help us get it setup.
01:50 PM beachbumpete1: they want like $2500 just for phone support for a year
01:50 PM beachbumpete1: I am half tempted to rip this fucker apart and start retrofitting it to LinuxCNC LOL
01:50 PM beachbumpete1: if we did not need to use it RIGHT NOW I would
01:52 PM beachbumpete1: elmo40 No not yet still working on that. This file size issue is a big problem for us right now
01:52 PM beachbumpete1: gotta solve this before we can worry about running large files on the machine like that...
03:42 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: which NIC's tend to work best with the Ethernet FPGA cards?
04:12 PM Deejay: gn8
04:14 PM mozmck: CaptHindsight: pcw_home has said that Intel chipsets work well, and at least some of the Realtek chipsets. I have not had problems with any realtek chips or intel.
04:15 PM miss0r|office: engine swap = success !
04:15 PM mozmck: CaptHindsight: Broadcom and Marvel chipsets I've had to NOT set the rx-secs to 0 or latency got really bad. More recently I found that there are some other settings in ethtool that I might should try on those as well.
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: mozmck: thank you
04:22 PM mozmck: CaptHindsight: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSQPD3_2.6.0/com.ibm.wllm.doc/usingethtoolrates.html
04:24 PM mozmck: I noticed after seeing that article that rx-frames was some high number I think on the marvel chipset. I haven't tried yet, but setting that to 1 might also be necessary on some chipsets.
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: I haven't used any Intel cpu's in 15+ years, well I might have one around here that was given to me
04:28 PM mozmck: You can set those settings in /etc/network/interfaces (for the systems that still use that) by adding the line "hardware-irq-coalesce-rx-usecs 0" for the interface. I assume you could do that for rx-frames but haven't looked it up.
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: Broadcom still uses blobs for their NIC's so they are avoided as well
04:28 PM mozmck: I'm only talking about network chipsets here.
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: tweaking NIC settings
04:29 PM mozmck: I use AMD cpus when I build my own computer - a lot cheaper for the performance.
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: there is no stable RTAI for the new Ryzen processors
04:30 PM mozmck: Yeah, putting the settings in the interfaces file allows the settings to be set every time the interface is brought up. ethtool only does it for the current session.
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: so I'm just looking at options for new LCNC controllers
04:31 PM mozmck: I haven't gotten a Ryzen yet - it's tempting though. My 8350 still works fine and is fast enough.
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: I have to provide a warranty and not use used
04:32 PM mozmck: We've been using various mini computers. We've just switched from J1900 based computers to a shuttle mini
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: used lots of GIGABYTE GA-F2A88X-D3H boards with various APU's
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-F2A88X-D3H-rev-30#ov
04:33 PM mozmck: If you browse the cpu's here it could help: https://www.osadl.org/QA-Farm-Realtime.qa-farm-about.0.html
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: out of production
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: looking for tried and tested with LCNC
04:35 PM mozmck: pcw was using an intel h81 based board I believe, and the osadl tests showed good latency with Pentium G4400 and G4600 chips.
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: you can have the same chipset and cpu with a crappy BIOS and on one system >100k jitter and another with good BIOS at 5K
04:36 PM mozmck: Hmm, interesting. PCW is the one to ask for sure. I've done a bit of testing but not as much as him.
04:44 PM miss0r|office: CaptHindsight: The engine swap was a success: https://imgur.com/a/6AP6s1C
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r|office: \0/
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r|office: did you swap engines or rebuild and replace?
07:06 PM _unreal_: RTAI?
07:06 PM CaptHindsight: wut about it?
07:06 PM _unreal_: mozmck,
07:06 PM sync: it's 2019
07:06 PM _unreal_: talkeda bout it
07:06 PM _unreal_: talked
07:07 PM CaptHindsight: yeah we kept it alive until a couple of years ago
07:33 PM gregcnc: anyone use Mitsubishi CCGT 215x FJ-P RT9005 inserts? I had great luck with WCGT version breaking chips boring.
07:33 PM gregcnc: in aluminum
07:46 PM methods_: i don't know if i've ever used those exact inserts but you usually can't go wrong with mitsubishi
07:46 PM methods_: i love their high feed cutters
07:47 PM methods_: the ajxu line
07:51 PM gregcnc: I was pleasantly surprised. considering this was on the manual at a reasonable RPM.
07:57 PM methods_: i just got some cnmg insert samples to try yesterday from the yg-1 rep
07:58 PM methods_: have to see how they run next week
09:21 PM jdh: I need some tpmc32-ngc-62
09:21 PM jdh: which seem to be difficult to find from vendors I can buy from
09:24 PM Tom_L: https://www.travers.com/stvo-screw-down-holders-for-tnmctpmc-style-inserts/p/109751/?keyword=tpmc32&lite=true&pricelistname=SITE
09:24 PM Tom_L: that type of insert?
09:25 PM Tom_L: http://www.carbolineusa.com/assets/on-edge-pages.pdf
09:26 PM Tom_L: i forgot where you were
09:28 PM Tom_L: http://www.horizoncarbide.com/
09:48 PM jdh: they are grooving inserts. triangle. cut width 0.0625
09:48 PM jdh: we just use them for parting tubes though. scrap ones at that.
09:49 PM jdh: would probably be simpler to buy new tool holders to replace the 20 year old hardinge ones we have
09:50 PM jdh: there are lots of TNMC32's. and left hand ones but ours are positive and righthand
09:50 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:50 PM jdh: I can't imagine it makes a difference for this use, but comparing inserts is painful
09:51 PM jdh: https://www.ebay.com/itm/WALTER-VALENITE-INSERTS-TPMC-32-NGR-062-5845/163671817068