#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 25 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:19 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
01:29 AM CaptHindsight: shhh people are sleeping
01:39 AM Elmo40: i'm still awake...
01:42 AM Jymmm: Elmo40: no your not, it's only a dream
01:42 AM CaptHindsight: sshhss
01:43 AM CaptHindsight: now everyones up
01:43 AM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: blame Loetmichel
01:43 AM CaptHindsight: er eh a dream thats it, just dream
01:44 AM CaptHindsight: your eyes are getting heavy
01:51 AM Loetmichel: yaaaawn
01:51 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: you called?
02:00 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: What mod do you have again?
02:06 AM tecdroid: hi there
02:07 AM Loetmichel: mod?
02:07 AM Loetmichel: you mean which E-cig?
02:08 AM Loetmichel: if so: Zelos Aspire mod with Nautilus2 tank
02:16 AM tecdroid: is it possible to do some z correction for a machine? seems, my bed is a little higher at x0 y0 z0 than at xmax ymax z0..
02:52 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel I'm kinda impressed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_g_K7yRf7c
03:13 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: exactly that kit
03:13 AM Loetmichel: but in red :-)
03:14 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: I'm liking grey =)
03:14 AM Jymmm: Loetmichel: then it should compliment any tank
03:15 AM Lcvette: https://youtu.be/Y4OaXS05ZMQ
03:42 AM Lcvette: Loetmichel: vandyvape pulse x is awesome! once you go squonk you'll never go back to screw on coils
03:57 AM Loetmichel: Lcvette: i dont like those "drippers". i want a tank
03:57 AM Loetmichel: so nautilus2 it is
03:58 AM Loetmichel: also i only use 20W setting, enough for me
04:52 AM jthornton: morning
04:53 AM XXCoder: morning
05:02 AM Tom_L: morning
05:03 AM Tom_L: looks like jt may be getting wet
05:16 AM XXCoder: hope jt is not a warlock :(
05:17 AM XXCoder: water have known dissolving actions on witches and warlocks
05:19 AM SpeedEvil: What about water based coolant with dissolved oils?
05:19 AM XXCoder: i think jt simply uses more expensive oil only coolant
05:20 AM XXCoder: like those swiss machines
05:20 AM Deejay: moin
05:20 AM XXCoder: hey
05:33 AM Loetmichel: pure oil coolant needs larger hoses though
05:34 AM Loetmichel: because of less thermal capacity
05:37 AM XXCoder: interesting
05:39 AM Loetmichel: less capacity-> more volume for the same cooling effect
05:40 AM XXCoder: yeah got that
05:40 AM Loetmichel: and its not "a bit less". Its DRASTICALLY less capacity
05:41 AM jthornton: been raining since 3pm yesterday
10:12 AM Loetmichel: maaan, i should listened to the CAMBAM programm when it told me that the CNC mill job will take hours... sitting here at 7 minutes past work end for the day and the mill isnt even done 50%... (started it two hours ago, should have known better...) overtime it is :-(
10:18 AM jym: Loetmichel: Eh, you weren't gonna do anything anyway except sit on your butt, might as well get paid for it ;)
10:20 AM jym: Loetmichel: BTW, the the 18650 replaceable in the mod?
10:35 AM Loetmichel: nope, fixed salary. dont get paid for overtime
10:35 AM jym: Loetmichel: those bastards!!!
10:35 AM Loetmichel: the 18650 is repleaceable. IF you can solder and have a small torx screwdriver
10:36 AM jym: Loetmichel: Ok, woulda been nicer with a battery holder, and even have security torx bits =)
10:37 AM jym: Loetmichel: Now, just to see if I can find that mod in the USA
10:48 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.engadget.com/2019/04/23/laundroid-robot-seven-dreamers-bankruptcy/ who gave the dopes $20M?
10:48 AM jym: Loetmichel: HAs your red mode got scratched up yet?
10:49 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/06/foldimate-laundry-folding-robot-working-prototype/
10:49 AM CaptHindsight: but can't pick shirts from a pile :(
10:52 AM jym: CaptHindsight: Yeah, we know, but it's okey
10:53 AM jym: CaptHindsight: Oh , heh, I thought you said YOU can't pick shirts from a pile and that others have to dress you =)
10:54 AM CaptHindsight: oh put some pants on and have some self respect!
10:55 AM CaptHindsight: jym: any fun projects lately?
10:55 AM CaptHindsight: between fires, mudslides, spider attacks etc
10:55 AM Loetmichel: jym: yes, quite a bit
12:30 PM xunil96 is now known as xunil
12:44 PM gloops: noteable absence of accurate set squares on ebay
12:44 PM gloops: i.e guaranteed square +-
12:45 PM roycroft: get a brand-new-in-a-box starrett
12:45 PM gloops: dont see those here
12:45 PM roycroft: or even better yet, get a certified cylinder square, and make your own squares
12:45 PM gloops: i dont want to spend hundreds, just a decent square
12:46 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tri-Square-Joiners-Try-Set-Square-Joinery-Carpenters-Rosewood-Brass-9-225mm/123477646207?
12:46 PM gloops: a lot of that rubbish, theyre never square
12:47 PM roycroft: if you're looking for an accurate square for woodworking, woodpecker's is kind of the standard around here
12:47 PM roycroft: https://www.woodpeck.com/shop-by-brands/woodpeckers/woodpeckers-precision-woodworking-square-12-x-8.html
12:47 PM roycroft: i have one of those and it is great
12:48 PM roycroft: i don't know about availability in the uk
12:48 PM roycroft: but in the usa that's a very very popular square
12:49 PM roycroft: contrary to what you would think from intial appearance, the square is made from a single billet of aluminium
12:49 PM roycroft: the reason for the rivets is to hold the scales on
12:49 PM gloops: 'A Square Must Be Square, Period.' theyre saying the right things anyway
12:49 PM roycroft: but both arms of the square are made of a single billet
12:50 PM roycroft: and it is dead nuts square, as long as you don't drop it or otherwise abuse it
12:50 PM Loetmichel: problem with aluminium squares is that aluminium warps if not properly "destressed" after casting/forging
12:50 PM roycroft: i wonder if axminster carry woodpeckers
12:51 PM Loetmichel: and it warps BADLY when machined
12:51 PM roycroft: loetmichel: i've never heard of anyone who had a problem with a woodpecker's square
12:51 PM roycroft: they machine everything in-house and pride themselves on the accuracy of their tools
12:52 PM roycroft: i'm sure they do whatever destressing is necessary prior to shipping
12:52 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: then i assume that they do the proper "destressing" before milling those squares
12:52 PM Loetmichel: i meant the cheap "injection molded" woodworkers squares
12:52 PM roycroft: yeah
12:52 PM roycroft: the one i linked to is $120
12:52 PM roycroft: it's not cheap
12:52 PM roycroft: but it's also not terribly expensive, for what it is
12:53 PM roycroft: 200x300mm
12:53 PM roycroft: a decent size
12:54 PM * Loetmichel has a 400*800 "anschlagwinkel" (machinists square) in 00 precision. THAT thing looks like absolute cheap but was pretty expensive ;)
12:54 PM Loetmichel: 400mm*800mm
01:32 PM jthornton: https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/KerhjvQgZmdcusrGRiWuvzhC
01:32 PM Tom_L: goin boating?
01:33 PM Tom_L: lotta extra cloth hangin off there...
01:34 PM jthornton: he had not trimmed it yet
01:34 PM Tom_L: or is that just your way of sayin you're tired of rain?
01:34 PM jthornton: my friend is making it, his second one
01:34 PM Tom_L: ahh
01:38 PM jthornton: I helped him glass the outside and was supposed to help with the inside but by the time I got over there he was done lol
01:43 PM gregcnc: is that the inside or outside? i can't tell
01:43 PM jthornton: the canoe?
01:44 PM gregcnc: yeah, i guess the reflection says it's the outside
01:44 PM jthornton: but the glass hanging off the top is your clue it's the inside
01:45 PM jthornton: but it could be the other way, sorta an optical thing
01:45 PM jthornton: the close end looks like the outside and the far end looks like the inside lol
01:45 PM gregcnc: heh, it looks like the inside toward the back and the outside in front
01:47 PM gregcnc: lighting shadows the strips all make it hard to tell, this could be the next is the dress blue or gold pic
01:47 PM jthornton: lol
01:48 PM fragalot: yanni
01:49 PM gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQonTfu8fZw
01:50 PM Tom_L: what? no PTO?
01:59 PM Wolf__: I like how the rear axle isnt centered
02:08 PM Rab: I can respect an audacious rat rod concept, but that thing just made me sad.
04:08 PM Deejay: gn8
04:18 PM jym: CaptHindsight: No, just decompressing and killing things
04:19 PM jym: Loetmichel: I meant to ask you, how long have you had that mod, and how many times have you replaced the coil?
04:20 PM Loetmichel: Do 16 Nov 2017 19:43:33 CET
04:20 PM Loetmichel: about the 15th coil in now
04:20 PM jym: Loetmichel: wind you own coils?
04:21 PM Loetmichel: nope
04:21 PM Loetmichel: the ready made are just to cheap
04:21 PM jym: Loetmichel: how much?
04:21 PM Loetmichel: <2 eur IIRC
04:22 PM Loetmichel: havent bought one in quite a while
04:22 PM Loetmichel: just a moment
04:22 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Well, actually, I'm slowly working on a MINII thermal mass rocket stove
04:22 PM jym: CaptHindsight: ...as I salvage materials
04:23 PM Loetmichel: yes, below 10 eur for 5 pcs
04:23 PM jym: CaptHindsight: I've got 3 burned out propane tanks, and some 4" pipe so far
04:24 PM Loetmichel: https://www.gearbest.com/vapor-accessories/pp_613184.html
04:25 PM jym: Loetmichel: are the 0.7 ohm worth it?
04:25 PM Loetmichel: i think i have 0.8 in now
04:25 PM Loetmichel: just a moment
04:26 PM Loetmichel: nope, 1,8 ohms it was
04:27 PM jym: Loetmichel: Oh, because you linked me to 0.7 is why I asked
04:28 PM jym: CaptHindsight: Oh, and some burned out hinges too
04:29 PM Loetmichel: it was just the first i found
04:29 PM jym: gotcha
04:30 PM jym: Loetmichel: you dont cloud chase? lol
04:33 PM Loetmichel: i dont ;)
04:33 PM Loetmichel: i did a bit back when i started vaping
04:33 PM Loetmichel: but i think its moot
04:33 PM jym: using 1.8 or 0.7 ?
04:34 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14993
04:34 PM Loetmichel: totally different mod ;)
04:34 PM jym: yeah, I see that
04:35 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15365&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- hihi, and another mod ;)
04:36 PM jym: Yeah, I know you have (had) a belt pouch full of vape pens
04:40 PM jym: CaptHindsight: How about you? Any projects?
04:41 PM jym: Loetmichel: It that site you linked good to buy the mod from?
04:49 PM Loetmichel: i bought mine from a german company. i suppose you search for an american one?
04:49 PM Loetmichel: i honestly dont trust gearbest to be reliable
04:50 PM jym: Loetmichel: how about being authentic?
04:50 PM Loetmichel: wouldnt buy stuff there that i REALLY want to arrive timely
04:50 PM Loetmichel: its probably authentic, but i wouldnt bet my live on it
04:50 PM jym: ok
04:51 PM Loetmichel: meaning: the few times i ordered there (mostly gimmics like mini quadcopters and like stuff) they delivered what was advertized
04:51 PM Loetmichel: no fakes or knockoffs advertized as "brand"
04:51 PM Loetmichel: but the delivery time wasnt always like avertized
04:52 PM jym: Loetmichel: ah, well can't buy aspire in the USA it seems
04:52 PM Loetmichel: then go with gearbest
04:52 PM Loetmichel: but be aware of the drawbacks
05:11 PM Loetmichel: jym: just dismantle mine so you can see how easy it is to fit a new 18650 (also you can see the amount of chafing the anodizing mine has already) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17355&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:20 PM jym: Loetmichel: Your's looks trashed! haha TY for the breakdown pic
05:31 PM _unreal_: freaking hell I cant find my damn box of pcb BLANKS
05:34 PM * Tom_L hands _unreal_ a couple: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/etching/Copper1.jpg
05:35 PM jym: _unreal_: It's between that wal and the other wall
05:39 PM _unreal_: freaking hell I knew it
05:40 PM _unreal_: that looks like some good sized copper clad
05:41 PM _unreal_: I have a small box with high quality perf board that are 6x40 holes "size wise"
05:41 PM _unreal_: I need them so I can make my motor interfaces
05:41 PM _unreal_: for my stepping motors
05:41 PM _unreal_: big cnc project
05:41 PM _unreal_: MAN this pale ale kicks like a mule
06:03 PM _unreal_: hello?
06:24 PM jym: _unreal_: it's working =)
06:27 PM jym: Loetmichel: Why does your coil say 9.9 ohms???
08:32 PM net|: wow the lowest cost ram pump on ebay is 600 dollars, seen this today https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2762294
09:58 PM justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser
10:02 PM skunkworks: would you believe... rt_preempt?
10:02 PM skunkworks: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/8300/Screenshot_2019-04-25_21-25-12.png
10:11 PM norias: hmpf
10:11 PM norias: the haas mini mill 2 is only like $40k
10:11 PM norias: and you can get a pallet changer for that same amount for it
10:12 PM Tom_L: you could probably get a decent larger used one for that
10:12 PM norias: i'm sure you could
10:12 PM Tom_L: what's the work envelope on it?
10:12 PM norias: but the mini mill 2 can run on single phase
10:12 PM norias: i think 20x16
10:12 PM Tom_L: not too bad
10:12 PM Tom_L: what about z?
10:12 PM norias: hmmm
10:12 PM norias: 14?
10:12 PM norias: i don't feel like looking again
10:12 PM Tom_L: z will kill ya on a small mill
10:12 PM norias: yeah
10:13 PM norias: I don't want to make very big parts
10:13 PM Tom_L: i added a riser to mine after the fact
10:13 PM norias: although, i bet the pallet changer sucks up some of it
10:13 PM Tom_L: and alot of the work space
10:14 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Z-Riser_blocks.jpg
10:14 PM Tom_L: that helped
10:15 PM norias: i wonder what one of those arms from universal robotics costs?
10:15 PM norias: i'm half assed researching the cheapest way to get to lights out
10:15 PM Tom_L: scanner or work arm?
10:16 PM norias: work
10:16 PM norias: load and unload parts on the pallet
10:16 PM Tom_L: no idea
10:16 PM norias: i'm seeing another $30k
10:16 PM norias: so about $100k before consumables
10:17 PM norias: that's the easy part
10:17 PM norias: getting enough work, programming, etc is the hard stuff
10:17 PM Tom_L: need a programmer for it
10:17 PM norias: yeah
10:17 PM norias: realistically, i think you also need a cmm
10:17 PM Tom_L: you could pay a monkey to swap parts cheaper
10:18 PM norias: naw...
10:18 PM norias: no 24/7
10:18 PM roycroft: get a barrel of monkeys
10:18 PM roycroft: you can work them in shifts
10:18 PM roycroft: and there is no way to have more fun
10:19 PM Tom_L: i wonder what the MTBF would be on an arm
10:19 PM norias: good point
10:19 PM norias: gotta figure on repair downtime
10:20 PM Tom_L: aside from the occasional programmer crash
10:20 PM norias: yeah
10:21 PM Tom_L: i suppose some have a 'learn' mode
10:21 PM norias: supply chain
10:21 PM norias: gotta get material in and parts out
10:25 PM norias: consumables
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: what size arm? reach and weight of load?
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: robot prices really vary based on precision, speed and capacity
10:27 PM norias: fair enough
10:28 PM CaptHindsight: businesses usually lease anyway
10:30 PM norias: i think all the other stuff is the bigger issue
10:30 PM norias: quoting / programming / materials / consumables
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://hgrinc.com/surplus/robots/
10:34 PM norias: yeah
10:34 PM norias: makes me think maybe a pick and place is a better starting point
10:35 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Staubli-TX60B-L-Series-Robot-Arm-Type-TX60B-L-with-Control-Panel-and-Pendant/401722755473
10:35 PM CaptHindsight: $20K robot for $2300
10:37 PM Tom_L: may need a specialized gripper too
10:37 PM norias: yeah
10:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://schunk.com/de_en/gripping-systems/series/end-of-arm-modular-system-for-universal-robots/page/1/
10:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://schunk.com/de_en/gripping-systems/category/gripping-systems/schunk-grippers/
10:41 PM Tom_L: makes me also wonder what the power cost is for a fully automated line
10:42 PM Tom_L: must be cheaper than feeding a monkey cause there's sure alot of them around
10:43 PM CaptHindsight: monkeys don't always want to work
10:43 PM Tom_L: but there's a good supply of them
10:44 PM CaptHindsight: monkeys don't see the big picture, just next meal
10:44 PM Tom_L: but not a supply of good ones
10:45 PM CaptHindsight: good depends on your perspective
10:49 PM Tom_L: if newer systems run preempt-rt and older one run RTAI but can still upgrade to master, what is the push to get RTAI on stretch?
10:49 PM Tom_L: just out of curiosity...
10:50 PM CaptHindsight: I'm tired
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: a few things
10:51 PM Tom_L: it was just a passing thought i had
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: wheezy is EOL so some feel that it's bad to only have that as a live cd
10:51 PM Tom_L: other than the parallel port think which you mentioned..
10:51 PM Tom_L: ahh
10:52 PM CaptHindsight: new hardware needs a newer kernel that what RTAI can currently support
10:52 PM Tom_L: doesn't seem that RTAI is keeping up though
10:52 PM CaptHindsight: but RTAI is not going to happen unless there is some miracle project that pays for it
10:53 PM CaptHindsight: no and rtai.org doesn't want our help
10:53 PM CaptHindsight: we kept it going for our own projects
10:54 PM CaptHindsight: it's a university profs pet project
10:54 PM Tom_L: figures
10:54 PM CaptHindsight: I guess fixing his code makes him look bad
10:54 PM Tom_L: but not fixing his own also does
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: we tried, but it's thankless and nobody wants to pay much for support
10:55 PM Tom_L: or his next gen of students...
10:56 PM CaptHindsight: EU aerospace stuff
10:56 PM CaptHindsight: he might not even teach anymore
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: it could have stalled 7-8 years ago
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: why Peter started working out new hardware with preempt_rt
11:04 PM pink_vampire: hi
11:04 PM selroc: hi pink
11:04 PM skunkworks: Plus rt_preempt is going to be part of the kernel at some point in the future
11:04 PM pink_vampire: how do i split a bushing?
11:05 PM skunkworks: And from what I have read, watched.. To make rt_preempt part of the kernel is making the kernel better.
11:05 PM pink_vampire: any idea ow to hold it?
11:05 PM skunkworks: slitting saw?
11:06 PM skunkworks: in a vice edge wise?
11:06 PM CaptHindsight: not sure how many use RTAI anyway
11:06 PM pink_vampire: yeah, but it is vary thin
11:06 PM selroc: later
11:06 PM CaptHindsight: even fewer that actually need it
11:07 PM pink_vampire: i 'm thinking about making an insert and super glue it, and then split it
11:07 PM skunkworks: I am not using rtai anymore.. I just switched the K&T over to rt_preempt. It was painless. (suprisingly)
11:07 PM CaptHindsight: mostly for cheepies that want stepping over LPT
11:08 PM CaptHindsight: so it's lots of work so others can save money
11:08 PM skunkworks: well... Some hardware 'seems' to be just as good as rt_preemt.. I hope to test it this weekend...
11:08 PM skunkworks: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/8300/Screenshot_2019-04-25_21-25-12.png
11:08 PM CaptHindsight: RTAI when properly built is always faster
11:08 PM skunkworks: it has now been running for 3 hours...
11:09 PM CaptHindsight: the RTAI with a generic kernel config is like snow tires on a Ferrari
11:09 PM skunkworks: oh - I am sure.. But in my playing - <10us is pretty darn good...
11:09 PM skunkworks: that should give you easy 40khz...
11:10 PM skunkworks: if you need more than that - go hardware
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: so it was always kind of goofy with LCNC livecd
11:10 PM CaptHindsight: we built it specifically for our hardware
11:10 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: what have you seen?
11:10 PM skunkworks: latency wise?
11:11 PM skunkworks: I think the best I have seen with rtai on all the systems I have tested is like 5us
11:11 PM skunkworks: latency
11:11 PM skunkworks: and that might have been just a wet dream
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: I'm off
11:13 PM skunkworks: Night!
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: oh what happened to Jepler?
11:13 PM skunkworks: ? why
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: did he move away or take time off from LCNC or?
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: haven't noticed him in the dev channel
11:14 PM skunkworks: Oh - I think he has been slowly moving away from linuxcnc
11:14 PM skunkworks: other interests.
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: then again i haven't been around much either
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: me to
11:14 PM skunkworks: heh
11:48 PM Deejay: moin