#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 18 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:13 AM Deejay: moin
02:20 AM varesa_ is now known as varesa
03:00 AM rmu: Loetmichel: how often do those fuses blow? and how often does a fuse blow without there being something seriously wrong in the PC? i.e. requiring repair beyond changing fuse?
03:02 AM Loetmichel: rmu:never
03:02 AM Loetmichel: but the customer is french military, so they are quite anal about not stocking 2 different sorts of fuses for one series of PC
04:12 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: but they are fine with wierd unavailable adaptor?
04:13 AM SpeedEvil: I suppose including a couple of fuses taped to the PC is right out?
04:13 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOME-BUILT-CNC-MILLING-MACHINE-ROUTER-500x500x125mm/333155980622?
04:14 AM gloops: funny to look at some of the conflict in these home made machines
04:14 AM gloops: built the frame like a tank, ample motors, but then a hairdryer for a spindle
04:15 AM gloops: not much attention paid to the welds either lol
04:21 AM XXCoder: hey all
04:21 AM XXCoder: whats your preference on can paint for car part?
04:21 AM XXCoder: i got a part here, primered but want to match black with "shiny flakes" look
04:29 AM gloops: not sure they do metal flake in cans
04:30 AM gloops: oh yeah, they do
04:30 AM XXCoder: im not sure on many stuff though
04:30 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: its an "after delivery thing"
04:31 AM XXCoder: what weather to spray in, whats pre-paint prep, etc. part is pre-primered
04:31 AM Loetmichel: they are complaining about having to stock two different fuses. "cant make our soldiers chose" or something
04:31 AM gloops: if the part is primed you just need to add the colour, then clearcoat
04:32 AM XXCoder: is there such things as small cans? mirror cover is pretty small
04:32 AM gloops: obviously spray when warm, not windy
04:32 AM XXCoder: whats good brand cans?
04:33 AM gloops: you can get small cans here, dunno about usa
04:33 AM XXCoder: i'll probably get carded
04:33 AM XXCoder: attempting to fight against kids thats tagging
04:33 AM Loetmichel: carded means showing ID?
04:34 AM XXCoder: yep
04:34 AM Loetmichel: then yes. some kinds of paint are harmful enough that you need to show ID to buy them in germany (and i think in whole europe as well)
04:35 AM XXCoder: i wonder if goldnoses still exist
04:35 AM gloops: 2k paint is pretty bad, you wont be able to buy it off the shelf
04:36 AM gloops: probably best bet if you want a good match is to go to auto-paint dealer, theyll find a good match and put it in a can for you
04:36 AM gloops: just tell them exactly what you want
04:36 AM XXCoder: hmm ok
04:37 AM gloops: over here if you know your paint code, they do off the shelf cans for most ford colours
04:37 AM XXCoder: mines just basic black though shiny dunno
04:38 AM XXCoder: theres old saying by henry ford
04:38 AM XXCoder: you can have any color as long as its black
04:38 AM gloops: trying to match by eye is very hit and miss lol, there are hundreds of differents whites for example, and when you spray one slightly different on another - you can see the difference plainly
04:39 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: does it actually even by implication specify this in the contract?
04:39 AM XXCoder: btw goldnose is from decades ago. kids used to sniff paint can, and gold gave highest high
04:40 AM XXCoder: so end result is nose has gold paint
04:40 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: i don't suppose just supplying a sticker saying 'not a user servicable part' would work?
04:42 AM Loetmichel: nope
04:44 AM Loetmichel: problem is: while those fuses will normally not blow unless the ATX PSU dies and need an inhouse repair anyways someone managed to put in 3A hyperfast fuses in the PCs
04:44 AM Loetmichel: instead of 3A slow blow. So half of them blew at the customer already
04:45 AM Loetmichel: which made them being pissed already
04:45 AM Loetmichel: then they discovered that the machines have different fuses and blew the lid
04:45 AM Loetmichel: if you know what i mean
04:57 AM Tom_L: morning
05:04 AM XXCoder: alaska is 20 degrees hotter than normal for march :(
05:04 AM XXCoder: super hot summer coming
05:09 AM gloops: same here, 23C - July temps in April
05:10 AM XXCoder: i dont look forward to wearing mask for weeks
05:10 AM XXCoder: last year sucked.
05:10 AM Loetmichel: here in central germany its cloudy and 18°C today
05:11 AM Loetmichel: and it was +2°C this morning!
05:11 AM Loetmichel: s/morning/night
05:38 AM MrSunshine: hmm, been destroying alot of material these two days as linuxcnc writes arbitary numbers for offsets etc in the tooltable .. anyone experienced that and know a fix?
05:40 AM XXCoder: hey
05:40 AM XXCoder: thats weird. isnt there gcode that can assign those values? if so, is there any in your gcode?
05:40 AM jthornton: morning
05:40 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:40 AM XXCoder: odd problem there maybe you know
05:42 AM jthornton: what's that?
05:43 AM XXCoder: mr sun linuxcnc is randomly changing offsets
05:43 AM XXCoder: at tooltable that is
05:43 AM MrSunshine: XXCoder: the code is from fusion, never had issues with that before
05:44 AM jthornton: did you check your hard drive for errors?
05:44 AM jthornton: oh fusion code...
05:45 AM MrSunshine: had the problem at one time before also ,.. but it just disapeared .. now its back again :/
05:46 AM MrSunshine: gonna try to force a hd check and reboot and see ... but its strange as f*** :/
05:53 AM jthornton: install smartmontools
06:02 AM XXCoder: intresting https://playspeedgate.org/
08:25 AM gregcnc: Is fixing a pallet jack trivial? there are some cheap on craigslist, but all need "seals"
08:29 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: depends on the tools and dextirety you have
08:29 AM Loetmichel: its quite messy for sure
08:34 AM gregcnc: I should have been watching the auctions
08:38 AM gregcnc: ah I see there is a seal deep in the bore
08:40 AM * jesseg 's ears perk up.
08:40 AM jesseg: I've got a floor jack that needs new seals :P
08:41 AM jesseg: been wondering what kind of torment it is to change them
08:41 AM Loetmichel: jesseg: bottle jack?
08:41 AM Loetmichel: or what?
08:42 AM gregcnc: seal kits for pallet jacks seem to run 50-150USD, seems hardly worth paying 50-100 for a bad pallet jack
08:43 AM Loetmichel: seal kits?
08:43 AM Loetmichel: its usuall just a bunch of O-rings and square rings
08:44 AM jesseg: Loetmichel, yeah they use a bottle jack sideways to push up the arm, but it's a jack with 4 wheels for going under a car
08:44 AM Tom_L: gregcnc, what's the cost for a rebuilt one?
08:44 AM Loetmichel: nothig that expensive
08:44 AM jesseg: but are there huge nuts or special tools needed for dissassem?
08:44 AM Loetmichel: jesseg: those? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16289&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
08:45 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: i meant: i dont get why someone would charge $50 for a kit of a couple o-rings and maybe a paper gasket for the pump
08:46 AM gregcnc: rod seals, o-rings blah blah
08:47 AM gregcnc: if I knew the sizes I would source individually, but I'm not going to have the time, probably for even a rebuild
08:48 AM gregcnc: new chinese pallet jacks are under 300USD
08:52 AM Loetmichel: yes
08:55 AM jesseg: Loetmichel, LOL I need a pair of struts for my cube fan front hood too, but no, I'm talking about one of these style: https://www.bendpak.com/RFJ-3TQP-Quick-Pump-Floor-Jack-5150418.png
08:55 AM jesseg: they have a bottle jack built inside, laying on it's side, which pushes up the boom
08:58 AM Loetmichel: jesseg: look at the red thing that lifts the BMW
08:58 AM Loetmichel: i just had no other picture of it
08:58 AM Loetmichel: of my floor jack i mean
08:59 AM gregcnc: hah was the lifting pad rusted through?
08:59 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: indeed
08:59 AM jesseg: Loetmichel, OH... ok.. I scrolled up and down looking for a floor jack, and didn't see it.. I didn't realize I had to scroll to the right as well :D
08:59 AM Loetmichel: sorry for big picture ;)
09:00 AM jesseg: np
09:00 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: could lift the floor jack all the way up without the car moving an inch ;)
09:01 AM Loetmichel: hat to put a piece of porch flooring in between to spread the load ;)
09:01 AM gregcnc: mine has no rust so far.
09:02 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: that was just a beater car that i bought for 450 eur
09:02 AM Loetmichel: to drive a few months while my omega got an engine rework
09:03 AM Loetmichel: it was a rust bucket like no other
09:03 AM Loetmichel: it DID fix me up to get a 318i convertible 2 years later though .-)
09:03 AM gregcnc: i've had my 97 since 03 I think. we also had a 96 that had the typical e36 rust
09:03 AM Loetmichel: and now the 525i touring when my Omega died
09:04 AM Loetmichel: boght that later: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=16706&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:05 AM gregcnc: I'd still like to find a later e36 M3
09:05 AM Loetmichel: and now drive that: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17343&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:05 AM gregcnc: too bad we don't have many touring here, because I would drive one, no matter what the wife thinks
09:05 AM Loetmichel: ... a new (used) E36 convertible is in the works though, as soon as i recover from the expenses for the 525
09:06 AM Loetmichel: touring means station wagon, you are aware of that?
09:06 AM gregcnc: yes
09:06 AM Loetmichel: ok, just checking ;)
09:07 AM gregcnc: but E36 M3 prices are going up, if they are celan
09:08 AM Loetmichel: <- likes to drive station wagons because i have to drive some military PCs and peripherials across germany the "ASAP" was quite often ;)
09:09 AM gregcnc: ask your boss to buy one for teh co
09:09 AM Loetmichel: the company owns an E-class from 2004
09:09 AM Loetmichel: thanks but no thanks, i take the BMW or the Omega each time over that bucket of lose nuts ;9
09:11 AM Loetmichel: drove the E-class to austria a few months ago, arrived there, tried to park, dash goes all red "ESP failure, reduced brake power!" ... i noticed because the pedal went to the floor without resistnace and i narrowly avoided crashing into a pallet stack... ignition off, iginition on, fault gone.
09:11 AM Loetmichel: thats not that "confidence boosting" to say the least ;)
09:12 AM gregcnc: that's no fun
09:12 AM Loetmichel: indeed
09:12 AM Loetmichel: especially when you have to drive 800km home the same day ;)
10:06 AM Deejay: oh
10:18 AM gregcnc: Anyone interested in am Emco PC Mill 125, original control, single phase 230V, located outside Chicago?
10:54 AM jthornton: https://youtu.be/-wy2EXcCNpI
11:04 AM * Tom_L enjoys this youtube moment brought to you by jthornton
11:05 AM Tom_L: jthornton, when you make a page like the thread thing, how hard is it to add it into another set like the one above?
11:05 AM Tom_L: can you build them separate then add them to something like a tab or menu item or such?
11:08 AM Tom_L: good stuff...
11:11 AM jthornton: if you open both at the same time you can copy from one to the other if that's what your asking
11:12 AM jthornton: I use stacked widgets instead of tabbed widget seems cleaner to me
11:12 AM Tom_L: no, if you were building an application and wanted to add the modules together
11:13 AM Tom_L: would you add your python code to one main window then copy the widgets across?
11:14 AM Tom_L: haven't had much time to spend messin with it
11:16 AM jthornton: I use a separate python file for each thing I'm doing like one for g code one for mdi etc then I just import them in the mainwindow.py and call their setup and pass self
11:16 AM jthornton: not sure what you mean by copy the widgets across?
11:16 AM Tom_L: i'm not either :)
11:16 AM jthornton: LOL
11:16 AM Tom_L: i need more time on it
11:16 AM Tom_L: just not available atm
11:17 AM jthornton: so the one I just showed v6 I first did the general layout then added enough pages the did the navigation buttons
11:17 AM jthornton: then just started adding content
11:17 AM Tom_L: so each one of the left buttons is a page?
11:19 AM jthornton: yes the left and right columns are navigation buttons
11:19 AM Tom_L: i see that now
11:19 AM jthornton: when your in the hole ops page the center column is also navigation buttons
11:20 AM jthornton: because there are pages inside the hole ops page
11:23 AM Tom_L: on the readouts, how do you limit the decimals? i noticed on the demo they would run outside the box sometimes depending on what i did
11:24 AM Tom_L: i can't recall exactly what it was now..
11:24 AM jthornton: '{:.3f}'.format(the_number)
11:24 AM Tom_L: oh, on the right side widget pannel?
11:24 AM jthornton: which demo?
11:24 AM Tom_L: his
11:25 AM jthornton: the position readouts are status labels
11:25 AM jthornton: mini, brender, probe basic...?
11:26 AM Tom_L: https://qtpyvcp.kcjengr.com/tutorials/basic_vcp.htm
11:26 AM Tom_L: i think that was it
11:26 AM jthornton: oh that's mine
11:26 AM jthornton: I should fix that
11:26 AM Tom_L: you're just using his page?
11:26 AM jthornton: I wrote them, I'm on the team!
11:26 AM Tom_L: i went thru it kinda quick
11:27 AM Tom_L: :)
11:30 AM Tom_L: that would be fun if i had more time
11:31 AM jthornton: I hear that... I need to get going and get some work done
11:31 AM jthornton: weather.gov show a flood watch through Sunday...
11:32 AM Tom_L: we didn't get as much as they said
11:32 AM jthornton: I think their page is broken
11:32 AM Tom_L: i use intellicast but i don't like their new pages
11:33 AM jthornton: ah you can now set the format for positions in the yml file
11:38 AM Tom_L: new qtpyvcp update?
11:39 AM jthornton: or I didn't know about it when I wrote the tutorial lol
11:39 AM Tom_L: i wouldn't know the difference :)
11:40 AM Tom_L: i doubt i'll ever learn python
11:40 AM Tom_L: i did a tiny bit of oops but nothing i ended up using
12:24 PM gloops: hmm, just confirmed my suspicions about pewter melting on kitchen cooker hob - it does easily
12:24 PM gregcnc: what kind of soup is that for?
12:25 PM gloops: last course lol
12:25 PM gloops: so..in theory i can carve stuff like fancy hinges or catches on the router from wood, polish them up, then take a silicone mold
12:26 PM gloops: make my own bespoke fittings
12:26 PM gloops: also lettering
12:27 PM gloops: or just carve an aluminium mold direct
01:04 PM FinboySlick: syyl_: Where's our first episode of the deburring podcast?
01:11 PM syyl_: lol
01:11 PM syyl_: i dont think that that will be a thing
01:17 PM gloops: Wrought cast iron suffolk cottage latch + fleur de lys door gate tee hinges < wrought cast iron, interesting
01:25 PM _abc_: Hi. Does linuxcnc work with UC100 usb to parallel adapter, made for UCCNC software by cncdrive.com ?
01:26 PM _abc_: And I am asking about the genuine ones, made in Hungary, not fakes. Ref: http://www.forum.cncdrive.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=140
01:26 PM _abc_: UC100 has a config and drivers for windows + Mach3 and 4
01:26 PM _abc_: Among other things. No mention of linuxcnc.
01:29 PM Rab: _abc_, I do not believe so. LinuxCNC expects real-time execution of steps, and USB has unavoidable overhead which introduces unpredictable latency.
01:30 PM CaptHindsight: real time does not work over USB is why it does not work with LCNC
01:30 PM _abc_: I keep hearing that. UCCNC is a Windows based cnc program like Mach3 and it does support specifically that interface and others.
01:31 PM _abc_: Realtime works fine with usb assuming the correct paradigm is used and the correct drivers. Cue live audio capture and reproduction, dropless, cue video the same.
01:31 PM _abc_: I keep finding people who repeat the same "information" from the internet. Please cease doing that.
01:31 PM CaptHindsight: if you want an LPT port with LCNC gste a PCI/e to LPT card
01:31 PM _abc_: It is not a lpt port, it happens to use a lpt pinout.
01:31 PM _abc_: Again, on topic: Is UC100 (original from Hungary) known to work with linuxcnc?
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: so whats the actual problem or question?
01:32 PM _abc_: ^
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: NO
01:32 PM gloops: how about non-Hungarian ones?
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: hungarian phrase books
01:32 PM _abc_: The forum thread I linked explains the non-Hungarian ones.
01:33 PM _abc_: cncdrive.com seems to be based in .hu
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: USB is not real time unless your real time is really slow
01:33 PM gloops: i dont know, im just a humble usr
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: maybe Mesa can put an atomic clock in a USB FPGA and then we can have LCNC over USB
01:35 PM _abc_: You don't need an atomic clock. There are usb oscilloscopes and usb video capture and reproduction (simultaneous) cards which work great in very real time.
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: but I want an atomic clock
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: I don't HAVE to have one
01:36 PM * _abc_ drops a kg of radioactive Cs on CaptHindsight
01:36 PM _abc_: There, count the photons yourself, you wanted diy, you got it.
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: I don't want to see any of your photons, emitted or reflected
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: nothing personal
01:36 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: ntp gives you access to the best atomic clocks there are, if you are hell bent to get a second best one, get a Rb one from ebay, used, and get it calibrated
01:37 PM _abc_: Anyway, this is the "real" UC100 page https://www.cncdrive.com/UC100.html fyi
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: do us a favor and rewrite LCNC to work with USB LPT adapters please
01:38 PM _abc_: I am telling you the second and last time, that is NOT a lpt adapter. It uses a DB25 and is "compatible" with lpt digital pins that's all.
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: and while you are at it move the motion control to STM32's that are under $10 so we can use LCNC on Android
01:38 PM _abc_: There's a DSP cpu in the UC100 doing the realtime stuff.
01:38 PM gloops: so the question isnt 'does linuxcnc cnc work on usb' its 'why doesnt linuxcnc work on usb'
01:38 PM Rab: _abc_, do you promise it's the last time?
01:39 PM _abc_: Only if CaptHindsight stops.
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: and I want a USB to LPT adapter that works with LCNC, I'm telling for the number of times that I don't recall
01:39 PM _abc_: Well, if someone gets cncdrive.com to publish a linux driver for UC100, it will work.
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC does work over USB though, it just depends on what you mean by work
01:40 PM _abc_: Apparently it uses some encrypted serial number stuff to prevent use by "others" (China)
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: it's been 12 years since someone asked about USB to LPT that I recall and nobody wants to write the patch to do it
01:42 PM _abc_: Delete "lpt" from your thoughts. The lpt is not up to speed to generate decent stepper or servo outputs nowadays.
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: but I love LPT
01:42 PM gloops: me too
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: what did LPT do to you?
01:43 PM _abc_: I have problems even with ancient 10 year old Chinese mills, they need 640 pulses/mm, they go like the wind with the supplied self contained pendant, and crawl with lpt and linuxcnc
01:43 PM _abc_: lpt only serves as transport paradigm in the UC100, the pc sends data to it, and the dsp re-interprets it and issues the real commands to the hw
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: hey lets come with all the zilion ways we can make LCNC work over USB?
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: you start listing the first million
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: I jump in later after I go to the bathroom
01:44 PM gregcnc: then don't call it LPT, maybe DB-25?
01:44 PM _abc_: "lpt pinout compatible" driver
01:45 PM _abc_: It can be Centronics or DB25 or IDC 2x13
01:45 PM _abc_: In fact, lpt is so dead, you need to go to a wrecker to find a printer with a lpt interface connector on it.
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: clarifications aren't hipster
01:46 PM * _abc_ still hunts and buys ASROCK and other PC main boards which have native "lpt" interface since he is stuck with a lot of legacy programmers, and other controllers.
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: you're supposed to hijack a common tech term and reuse it for your own
01:47 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: Copy Microsoft[tm] LPT? Hey, I think they patented that business practice a long time ago.
01:47 PM gregcnc: well yesterday I went to the ford dealer to buy a chevy and they weren't having any of it
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: zealots
01:49 PM _abc_: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/30129-uc100-motion-controller-support look who's talking
01:49 PM Thomer: hey all - newbie here
01:50 PM Thomer: trying to do the basic stuff - setting up for the first time - anyone have a minute to assist?
01:50 PM _abc_: Can someone explain in 10 words the "new" joint thing the 2.8 still nags me about vs 2.7 ?
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: Thomer: ask away
01:51 PM Thomer: Taigturn2000AB Mesa card with no daughter boards
01:51 PM Thomer: set up with the G540x2
01:51 PM Thomer: not sure how to set the I/O connectors
01:52 PM Thomer: tried to find the equivalent from Mach3 but it made little sense
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: Thomer: which Mesa card?
01:52 PM Thomer: 6i25
01:53 PM Thomer: (so set up like a 5i25)
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: there is a 2x G540 config for that
01:54 PM Thomer: google has failed me
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: G540X2 I'll try to find the howto
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: JT-Shop don't one of you have a step by step howto on flashing firmware somwhere?
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://mesaus.com/info/firmware.html
01:57 PM Rab: Based on this analysis, looks like the UC-100 is exactly like a proprietary GRBL: https://wiki.cnc.xyz/UC-100
01:58 PM _abc_: That is very plausible except I am 100% sure the original UC100 uses a Pic dsp cpu.
01:58 PM Thomer: hmmm yes i did all that flashy stuff
01:59 PM Thomer: I am having trouble with the PncConf - maybe i wasn't clear
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: Thomer: what do you mean by set the IO connectors?
02:00 PM _abc_: Rab: so yes it is a marlin/grbl/whatever stuffed into a LPT connector shell, with USB to the host, and DB25 lpt compatible outputs. Also, it can look like a parallel port to the host for Mach3 setup purposes.
02:01 PM Thomer: so when going through the Pncconf, you get to a page where it asks what firmware you are using
02:01 PM Thomer: then there are tabs for I/O connector - and you assign x-home or whatever
02:01 PM Thomer: idk what to do there
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: Thomer: do you have Home and Limit switches?
02:02 PM Thomer: no
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: then leave those blank
02:02 PM Thomer: sure
02:03 PM Thomer: does it really matter what pins i assign to what then? It does give some direction - like some are PWM gen and such
02:03 PM Thomer: if so, then maybe i'm just looking for direction on what is necessary
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: I wonder what signals Mach3 sends to that LPT-ish board?
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: Thomer: besides the 2x G540's, what are you connecting?
02:05 PM Thomer: hmmm not sure what you're asking
02:05 PM Rab: _abc_, so the question becomes: why doesn't LinuxCNC support the whole class of deterministic real time peripherals like UC-100|GRBL, and the answer is usually that if you are doing real time in a peripheral and just need a dumb g-code sender, then why do you need LinuxCNC?
02:05 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: it sends lpt signals, but there's a DLL on Windows whihch then takes over and sends motion control data instead of step and dir pulses
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: does Mach3 send it Step and Dir signals, or?
02:06 PM _abc_: See above CaptHindsight
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: ah yeah, LCNC doesn't have that for your LPT-ish thingy
02:06 PM _abc_: Rab: so there never was an attempt to split processing into high level interpreter/planner and low level "executor"
02:06 PM _abc_: ?
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC does it all in the PC
02:07 PM _abc_: If so, why not?
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: you or others did write this yet
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: I'd say quit whining and give it a go
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: or write some open source 4+ axis CAM or get LCNC to work with Vulkan
02:08 PM Rab: _abc_, the UC-100 apparently does trajectory planning onboard. Why would you daisy-chain two planners?
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: i don't think he wants to
02:08 PM _abc_: Rab: because one would deal with parsing and ui and large disks and logging and whatever, and the other would do just realtime using a cooked pipeline of motion commands.
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: he just wants LCNC to no do what it does now and do what Mach3 does with his LPT-ish thingy
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: no/not
02:09 PM _abc_: Rab: essentially what linucnc's "realtime" task does right now, moved into the usb device.
02:09 PM gloops: whats the problem with using mach3 to do it?
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: sounds like a fantastic program
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: i wonder who will actually write vs talk about it
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: ?
02:10 PM _abc_: Btw linuxcnc's own rt-usb project is doing exactly this I think and also the fancy interface controller cards supported by linuxcnc do this?
02:10 PM _abc_: The ones selectable by the setup program.
02:11 PM _abc_: So, recap: a) it can be done by usb, usb is not the problem, b) there is no support currently for UC100 interfaces and none is planned. Ok
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: Thomer: sorry, do you have just the 2 G540's connected to the 6i25?
02:11 PM Rab: _abc_, which rt-usb project is this now
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: if you write it please be sure to support closed loop for things like servos and rigid tapping
02:12 PM _abc_: Rab: see bottom posting by andypugh and link https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/13312-why-not-usb-again?start=42
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: and pick better hardware than a *duino or Teensy
02:13 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: no kidding
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: you'd be surprised by the kooks that bring this up in here
02:13 PM _abc_: I would not be, I work in electronics, make projects, I meet the kooks in real life.
02:14 PM Rab: _abc_, how is that "linuxcnc's own rt-usb project"? It doesn't even seem to exist.
02:14 PM Thomer: CaptHindsight: I have it working like a generic parport
02:14 PM _abc_: Been there, done it all. People walk in with a nest of wires with an arduino in the middle and ask it I can make it work since it almost works, just "reboots/freezes now and then"
02:14 PM _abc_: Rab: well it was a beginning then and stopped. Maybe it will restart.
02:14 PM Thomer: CaptHindsight: Connor was asking about it yesterday bc i had the wrong stuff flashed to it. I decided to cut out the middleman today
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.geckodrive.com/g540-4-axis-digital-stepper-drive.html
02:16 PM Connor: Thomer: Oh. Hey
02:16 PM _abc_: Sarah Connor? :) Kidding.
02:17 PM Connor: _abc_: Um. No. Connor MacLeod
02:17 PM Connor: from highlander. :)
02:17 PM _abc_: [that was a Terminator movie reference just to close the matter]
02:17 PM _abc_: Rab: https://www.rtai.org/userfiles/downloads/RTAICONTRIB/ this suggests something last moved there in 2017
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: if Macloud fought the Terminator who would win?
02:18 PM _abc_: Rab: and "rtnet" suggests the ethernet attached controllers (industrial ethernet extensions?) may be more up to date.
02:18 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: Alien.
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: they already did that
02:18 PM Rab: _abc_, it does suggest that there was some effort to do something with USB in 2006.
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: USB is soooooo bbbbbborrring
02:19 PM _abc_: Rab: yes, but, moving on, rtNET suggests it's the ethernet attached hw branch that developed on
02:19 PM _abc_: Rab: and that is good because among others the maker of UC100 also has Ethernet attached interfaces.
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: RTAI on x86 works but people find the compiling way too difficult
02:20 PM _abc_: Rab: and others do too. I recently noted the BBlack's cpu has these Ethernet Industrial Extensions baked into the silicon too
02:20 PM _abc_: ti.com has some papers on this.
02:20 PM _abc_: Industrial Ethernet Extensions support Modbus Profibus and other realtime protocols.
02:21 PM _abc_: Excuse me for a bit, I need to research linux live-boot
02:23 PM Rab: I'm comfortable with the dichotomy of "cheap/free, use hardware parport" and "not so cheap, but awesome Mesa FPGA ethernet peripheral with drivers and everything". It's hard to get excited about hacking LinuxCNC up to use some $129 closed-source PIC-in-a-box from some outfit that's preoccupied with Mach3.
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-users/?limit=50&page=1&style=threaded
02:23 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
02:24 PM Tom_L: also in the wiki
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: Hardware emcmot? follow this thread
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: ends up he did that but he has more questions
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: unless they supply LCNC with a patch for Vulkan at the same time
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: or open 4+ axis CAM
02:25 PM _abc_: Rab: I mostly agree but it was worth asking if someone dunnit and also to get through the wall of "fact" [6~repeaters
02:25 PM _abc_: I mean it was worth the discussion. Thanks.
02:25 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I thought you had that under control.
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: funder didn't fund
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: all talk, no action
02:26 PM Rab: A story older than time itself.
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: the wiki needs a "why not break up LCNC to work with M$, Android and over USB"
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: answer: Why not you do it?
02:29 PM Rab: _abc_, I'm gonna double down on real-time over USB being difficult or impossible. You understand that the UC-100 is not doing real-time communication over USB, correct?
02:29 PM Connor: okay. So flag on the play with the g540 drivers.. it has pin 3 as a stepgen pin.. we need that on pin 2 and direction on pin 3
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: i don't get the attraction to using hardware a few $$ less than Mesa when the electronics are ~2% of the entire machine cost
02:30 PM Tom_L: Connor, swap them?
02:30 PM Connor: Yup.
02:31 PM Connor: I don't have pncconf running in front of me at the moment.. helping Thomer over chat.
02:31 PM Tom_L: oh
02:31 PM Tom_L: just walked in...
02:31 PM Connor: but, pin3 is pwn and we need it to be step.
02:31 PM Tom_L: a mesa config?
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: are those pins selectable on the G540?
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: surprised that a config would need more configuring later
02:32 PM Tom_L: i've never used a g540
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: same here
02:32 PM Connor: Ditto.
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: doesn't JT have them?
02:32 PM Tom_L: i dunno
02:32 PM Tom_L: g540?
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: yes
02:32 PM Tom_L: i think all he sells is mesa cards
02:32 PM Tom_L: but i could be wrong
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: or uses them
02:33 PM Tom_L: pretty sure he uses g203v or better
02:33 PM Tom_L: that's what i've got
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: Mesa cards $200, what price should I figure for something lower cost and maker approved?
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: $125?
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: ok so I save $75 and spend 2000 hours writing a fork of LCNC
02:35 PM Tom_L: for what mesa card?
02:35 PM Tom_L: i'm using the 7i90
02:36 PM Tom_L: and a daughter card
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: whatever expensive ones people seem to want to avoid
02:36 PM Tom_L: ethernet are cool but require preempt-rt
02:36 PM Tom_L: 7i90 does 3 interfaces
02:37 PM Tom_L: parallel spi and i forget the other one.. serial maybe?
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: is RT patching the kernel lots of work for those wanting to save $75?
02:37 PM Tom_L: you need better hardware for RT too
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: after all they seem to want to spend 100's of hours forking LCNC
02:37 PM Tom_L: andy is trying to port RTAI to stretch
02:37 PM Tom_L: not sure how that's goin
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: what kernel is in Stretch?
02:38 PM Tom_L: nobody's ever happy with what's curently available
02:38 PM Tom_L: preempt-rt
02:38 PM Tom_L: or at least you add it in
02:38 PM Tom_L: depending if you build it or get the iso
02:38 PM Tom_L: i added it
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: I mean what kernel version number?
02:38 PM Tom_L: oh i have no idea
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: we wrote all the support for RTAI for 6-7 years
02:39 PM Tom_L: 4.9 LTS?
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: stopped about 1-2 years ago
02:39 PM Tom_L: google said that btw
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: 3.16.52 was the latest when we stopped
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: have a link to what Andy is doing?
02:47 PM Tom_L: no
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: I'll ask when I bump into him
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: andy could build a 3.16.52 RTAI kernel for debian in a few minutes
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: so I'm not sure what he's actually doing
02:52 PM Tom_L: <andypugh> And then try to get an RTAI one working. (My latest attempt to make a 4.9.80 RTAI kernel failed, again)
02:53 PM Tom_L: <andypugh> I tried building an RTAI kernel on the Preempt-RT LiveCD install.
02:53 PM Tom_L: <andypugh> But it doesn’t really boot.
02:53 PM Tom_L: <andypugh> (It boots far enough to tell me that it is dumping core)
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: if Andy just wants a working kernel he should just use https://github.com/ntulinux/rtai for 3.16.52
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: looks like he's using rtai-org beta stuff and he is in for lots of pain
02:57 PM Rab: http://www.forum.cncdrive.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=140#p742
02:57 PM Rab: Who wants to support these goons?
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: not goons, Chinese, they live by a different philosophy than what's typical in the west
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: if you can't tell the difference than what is the problem?
03:01 PM Rab: I am referring to CNCdrive, who I guess are Magyar.
03:01 PM FinboySlick: syyl_: Admitedly it might get old pretty fast. But I say you would make *millions* on a 'hand-scraping ASMR' series.
03:02 PM Rab: Looks like they've been taking tips from FTDI.
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: on one hand you have this
03:02 PM SpeedEvil: FinboySlick: keith fenner
03:02 PM SpeedEvil: ^rucker
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: and on the other you have people where cheapest is the only thing that matters
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: they tend to meet
03:02 PM _abc_: Rab: "realtime" needs an exact definition as in latency and timing and speed. Let's split this: a) usb is able, with buffering in the slave device, to sustain 10MBps data streams without any drops. Such as video. b) there is no such thing as zero latency from input to output. A definition of latency from input to output is needed. USB streaming similar to before is able to get the "delay" between a real
03:03 PM _abc_: input and it being delivered to the application down to under 2msec and probably 1msec.
03:03 PM _abc_: The rest is "details". There is no point in discussing this without numbers.
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: you have to find projects that nobody wants to copy
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: RTAI for instance :)
03:04 PM _abc_: The "latency" of a parport (lpt) is around 500nsec at best assuming asm threads uninterruptible etc. In reality it is much worse.
03:04 PM Tom_L: then they get popular and copied :)
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: when i want cheap i give the design to the Chinese
03:04 PM _abc_: latency between an output being driven and an input sensing and reporting same to the software
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: when i want it to work I build it myself
03:05 PM Tom_L: you're not cheap?
03:05 PM Tom_L: i work for free for myself :)
03:05 PM Rab: _abc_, 10MBps is a non-sequitur since that has nothing to do with latency. HDMI pushes a lot of data, but often with latency plain to human faculties.
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: I'm on the pricier side of Chinese
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: fork USB and call it RSB, realtime serial bus
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: give the designs to the Chinese, sit back wait for cheap stuff that almost works
03:08 PM _abc_: Rab: yes hdmi has huuge buffers. Usb buffers tend to be smaller, thus, faster.
03:08 PM _abc_: Anyway I am intrigued by the Industrial Ethernet Extensions which should exist in BBlack firmware somewhere.
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: oh just give them their open loop steppers over USB already
03:09 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: are you high?
03:09 PM _abc_: Adjust the dose, higher or lower, anyhting is better than the noise you have been making till now.
03:10 PM Rab: _abc_, I believe the real difficulty is not raw latency--all electronic systems have latency, even if it's the speed of light--but whether the latency is predictable. My understanding is that while USB is fast, it's not predictable.
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: none of these users do anything with precision anyway, they just want cheap
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: just tired of the whining
03:10 PM rmu: typical usb implementations suck and the design (isochronous transfers) is problematic for CNC stuff
03:11 PM _abc_: Rab: I think a 1:1 host to slave USB is predictable in timing, with quite low jitter, from what I read.
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: what is the actual problem?
03:11 PM _abc_: Rab: 90% of incertitudes come from competing devices on the bus.
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: time and funds to write this or how to write this?
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: or all the above?
03:12 PM rmu: usb host controllers may have unpredictable timing, depending on chipset and POM
03:12 PM _abc_: Rab: Industrial Ethernet Extensions work along similar principles, the "ethernet" is actually moved on from send and pray (for no collisions) to something much more time-slot like, perhaps a reincarnation of ATM.
03:13 PM _abc_: This is what I gather from it till now.
03:14 PM _abc_: Next they'll reimplement ARINC 429 nets over ethernet :) Back to the future.
03:14 PM _abc_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARINC_429
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: how about having the monitor/display, keyboard and mouse over USB?
03:14 PM _abc_: Note there are much faster versions out there
03:14 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: old hat, already exists.
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: then the motion controller can be over USB near the motors
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: so we need new hats beacuse?
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: newer is more better?
03:15 PM FinboySlick: SpeedEvil: Watched those, want more.
03:16 PM _abc_: (MIL-STD-1553 being 1MHz)
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: why come?
03:16 PM Rab: _abc_, so instead of the current requirement for a magic motherboard with decent latency and a parallel port, your LinuxCNC/UC-100 user will need to somehow ensure that they have a dedicated USB controller with no bus contention? Doesn't sound like much of a win from a UX perspective. I forsee much support for laptop users who don't realize their touchpad and bluetooth are sharing the same bus as
03:16 PM Rab: their UC-100 port.
03:16 PM _abc_: Rab: er no, the UC-100 has it's own dsp and buffering, no need for special things there
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: nah, you make the USB connector that goes to the UC-100 bigger and different color
03:17 PM _abc_: But for general USB based direct machine control, assuming the end stop loop is closed in the slave, options do exist imo
03:17 PM Tom_L: get this all worked out an implemented by the time i return... mkay?
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: I'd make a UC-100 that doesn't even need a PC
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: UC-100 with BT
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: works with Linux, M$,andoid, ios and OS2
03:19 PM _abc_: Funny you mention BT, I have a gcode sender for BT enabled 3d printers on my phone
03:19 PM _abc_: Of course it is a gcode sender, the receiver is typically a bt enabled Marlin version.
03:19 PM _abc_: Never used it as such.
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: even better would be "just think of a Yoda" and it's already printing
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: so maybe a STM32 for each axis and then some "bus" for them to signal feedback to each other
03:22 PM Rab: I'm pretty sure Bre Pettis would've had us there if he hadn't been beaten down by open sores zealots.
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: so they can synchronize motion for each axis
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: and E-stop, Limit etc
03:24 PM gloops: so i had a couple of glasses of wine and told a woman on marketplace i was coming to buy/collect her husbands machine on saturday...100 miles away
03:25 PM gloops: ni why i did that
03:25 PM Rab: gloops, sounds like you were desperate.
03:25 PM gloops: i was desperate to type maybe
03:25 PM Rab: Or she was.
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: so rather than a single x86 or ARM processor synchronizing motion you'd have 3-6+ STM32 (or similar) each sending commands to a motor and also signaling each other with position info
03:26 PM gloops: hopefully someone will gazump me
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: signaling over some bus (wire thingy)
03:27 PM Rab: gloops, what kind of machine?
03:27 PM * SpeedEvil wishes LASER interferometers were cheaper.
03:27 PM gloops: a spindle moulder Rab
03:28 PM gloops: manual
03:28 PM SpeedEvil: just totally decouple the measure part from the machine part.
03:29 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I believe that is a thing that exists. As far as open source, I believe MIT had a research project along those lines.
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: not a big deal, you just have to write it
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: work out the bugs
03:30 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I like using code, not writing code. And I don't want to pay for it, either.
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: maybe call it DLCNC
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: I like money
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: knowledge is good to
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: and experience can come in handy
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: if devs didn't need to get paid, eat, bathroom breaks etc this would be easy
03:34 PM gloops: so write a script that writes scripts
03:35 PM Deejay: gn8
03:35 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I believe I am thinking of "Gestalt": https://3dprinting.com/3dprinters/gestalt-modular-machines-make/
03:35 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: competent coders seem to be pretty scarce too these days. Seems all we have is web 'programmers' now who get a glazed look in their eyes as soon as you mention words like 'mutex' or 'memory allocation'.
03:36 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: Propeller from Parallax has iirc 9 or more independent RISC cores.
03:36 PM XXCoder: fin most competent programmers is off working well paid jobs
03:36 PM _abc_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_Propeller 8
03:37 PM Rab: Another of many, many completely obtuse websites obliquely referring to "Gestalt" motion control technology: http://archive.monograph.io/james/m-mtm
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: _abc_: I recall working some chips with 64+ cores (not bits)
03:37 PM _abc_: Cavium
03:37 PM _abc_: MIPS
03:37 PM _abc_: Used in among other things Juniper boxes
03:38 PM _abc_: Cavium Networks. The MIPS cores went out, they now make multi cored ARM cpus for the same purpose(s)
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: so does you want multiple controllers or just one with multiple cores?
03:38 PM FinboySlick: XXCoder: Yeah. I just worry that the pool isn't being replenished.
03:39 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: I don't want anyhting now, just talking. The Propeller is a nice part for a motion controller with multiple channels for obvious reasons
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: it is but with cesspool water
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: I've noticed around these here parts is when they ask for a Linux dev they really mean someone familiar with graphical tools for configuring Linux severs like cpanel
03:40 PM _abc_: hehe
03:41 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: recently I tried to help some people who had a vps and the moron admin gave me cpanel access instead of root.
03:41 PM _abc_: This led to discussions :)
03:41 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Yeah... We bought a windows shop a couple years ago and I have to say things aren't improving in Microsoft-land either.
03:41 PM _abc_: Such as, why are they paying for vps when they get just cpanel hosting (10:1 price difference) and similar. The problem was quickly resolved after that.
03:42 PM _abc_: "bought a windows shop"? Uhh. What does that mean?
03:43 PM FinboySlick: We bought a company who does windows solutions. ASP.NET web sites, C#, etc.
03:45 PM FinboySlick: Nobody's competent at infrastructure, so everybody's moving to the cloud... Which means nobody's able to build skill managing infrastructure.
03:45 PM FinboySlick: And then you'll end up with 3 companies running the world.
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: wanted: Linux developer with M$ experience veritas, cloudsphere, monkeyshine etc
03:46 PM FinboySlick: "Where's the button to have a firewall."
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: hah, yeah, cloud based security admin :)
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: the safest screen doors for your submarine available anywhere
03:47 PM FinboySlick: It's incredibly scary the number of businesses that simply turn off as soon as their internet connection drops.
03:48 PM FinboySlick: "But it's in the cloud, it's better." Yeah... Until you can't reach it anymore.
03:48 PM _abc_: FinboySlick: it's even more scary that 99% of mom and pop shops AND LAWYER OFFICES have that golden candid look on their faces when you ask "when did you last make a backup of your server"? This, after having been in business in the same location/config for 10 years or more.
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: oh that's the advice that #netfilter "experts" give out
03:48 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Easy there. I am a netfilter expert ;)
03:49 PM _abc_: FinboySlick: I had that candid look in front of me 3 times since the beginning of the year, all people I know and have warned. A 4th is cooking, not backed up android dying.
03:49 PM XXCoder: i read about one business that simply closed doors after they found out "backups" was blank
03:49 PM _abc_: XXCoder: no choice.
03:49 PM XXCoder: apparently their it guy found a way to speed up backups. oh and its test mode which does not actually store files
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: most ports should be left open since you don't know what a surprise app and port might be used, for reasons outside of you needing to know
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: they had the safest data
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: safe from even themselves
03:50 PM _abc_: CaptHindsight: blocking ports is so useless now that people auto install search bars and trojans.
03:50 PM FinboySlick: Yeah. That windows shop we bought got hit by a crypto-attack not long after we acquired them.
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: so are firewalls with factory installed backdoors
03:51 PM XXCoder: with fancy hardcoded admin
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: you want deep packet inspection.....
03:51 PM XXCoder: hardcoded blank password
03:52 PM FinboySlick: Lots of pretty high-end Cisco gear has been found to have hardcoded admin accounts in them.
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: preferably by porn staved teens under the impression that deep inside there are naked women looking for you
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: or men
03:53 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Thank god you aren't Canadian. You'd be compelled by law to mention all 78 other official genders.
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: oh the 78
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: men women and 78+, standard boiler plate
03:54 PM XXCoder: why? just make it "there is people of gender you find appealing hidden in it!"
03:54 PM FinboySlick: Well, technically, they're 78 official pronouns. I'm not sure on the number of genders.
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: hey what about gender free people
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: what yha gots against them?
03:54 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight fighting for the oppressed!
03:54 PM XXCoder: give those different movations
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: well you are correct
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: i should have just said naked
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: things
03:55 PM FinboySlick: What about never-nudes like Tobias Funke?
03:55 PM XXCoder: so youre saying gender neters is interesting on hving sex with things?
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: or inanimate objects that don't generally wear anything but aren't naked
03:56 PM FinboySlick: It's always amusing trying to apply logic to collectivist thinking. Futile, but amusing.
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: makes for a good comedy sketch in the right hands
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: AI firewalls
03:58 PM FinboySlick: Well, work day is nearly over but that sure was a fun way to end the day.
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: checks for malicious activity as well as gender and racial sensitivity
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: "I noticed that these packets are coming from China"
04:00 PM FinboySlick: Must be frustrating for AI programmers. They need to train AI on real-world data but they don't want AI to behave according to the real world.
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: just like public school
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: it will end up just as nuts
04:01 PM XXCoder: all schools need to teach critical thinking
04:02 PM XXCoder: wanna know why schools sucks? budget cuts.
04:02 PM XXCoder: teachers pay way too low
04:02 PM FinboySlick: I don't think that's for lack of budget.
04:02 PM FinboySlick: That's just not where the money goes.
04:03 PM FinboySlick: Take education budget divided by number of teachers.
04:03 PM FinboySlick: It'll make you want to be a teacher.
04:03 PM XXCoder: I dont mind being a teacher, I found I have love of teaching decade+ ago
04:04 PM XXCoder: but money just isnt in it
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: keeps the lower classes suppressed
04:04 PM FinboySlick: Yeah. You get my point though.
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: the problem is older than you
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: not really a problem depending on your viewpoint
04:05 PM XXCoder: and deaf schools get worse of it, if budget calls for schools increase of pay, deaf schools is "inusitional so dont count" but if inustion are called for pay increase, it's a school so dont count
04:05 PM FinboySlick: Solving department X problems would mean Department X can't ask for more money. The last thing you want to do is solve department X problems.
04:05 PM XXCoder: so they get far fewer pay increases
04:05 PM XXCoder: also reason my brother quit from being staff and moved on into dvr
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: digital video recorder?
04:06 PM XXCoder: no.
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: I give up
04:06 PM XXCoder: Division of Vocational Rehabilitation
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: ah knew it
04:07 PM XXCoder: budget there is seriously undersized and understaffed
04:07 PM XXCoder: my bro has over 120 clients
04:07 PM XXCoder: old normal would be 40 to 50
04:07 PM FinboySlick: We actually have a decently managed schoolboard here. Every year they go on a big spending spree... Because if they don't hit their budget, it gets sent to the schoolboards that are too incompetent to be on budget.
04:08 PM XXCoder: FinboySlick: yeah old spend or cut
04:08 PM FinboySlick: No price pressure on performance = promotion of inefficiency.
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: stop making sense
04:09 PM FinboySlick: Yeah sorry. Going for real this time.
04:09 PM FinboySlick: Once again, it was great.
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: hasta banana
04:10 PM XXCoder: off also. later
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: i left hours ago
05:08 PM gloops: whats the android app - picks up signals from overhead planes, make, destination, pilot etc
05:28 PM SpeedEvil: flightaware?
05:29 PM SpeedEvil: Itisnotactyally recievingdata fromlanes,asthehone can't do that, but from a server from a network of recievers which recieve info from planes
05:38 PM gloops: flight radar24 - got it
05:38 PM andypugh: Eh? https://imagebin.ca/v/4eAVx6uxQO7T
05:38 PM andypugh: I have never sworn in my life, and am not doing so there…
05:39 PM jthornton: lol
05:39 PM SpeedEvil: ah
05:40 PM andypugh: Stupid web filters. It’s a good job I don’t like in Penistone or Scunthorpe.
06:25 PM elmo40: LoL
06:28 PM * Loetmichel just got a nice easter present from the car insurance per mail today: they moved me from SF1/2 to SF3 (accident free time reduces the insurance cost)... the BMW 525i touring is now "only" 654€ a year, not 783€ like they said when i insured it last month. not much, but still worth a night out or two :-)
06:48 PM jthornton: nice
06:58 PM Tom_L: jthornton, got more Qtpyvcp tutorials i can look over?
07:00 PM jthornton: just the ones on Kurt's site
07:00 PM jthornton: of course you can look at all the GUI's on my github
07:01 PM Tom_dev: i started to look at this briefly: https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtwidgets-module.html
07:01 PM Tom_dev: but haven't gotten very far at all
07:02 PM jthornton: yea that's for c++ there is a python one, what are you looking for just general info on pyqt?
07:03 PM Tom_L: just something to learn
07:04 PM jthornton: https://build-system.fman.io/pyqt5-tutorial
07:05 PM Tom_L: may not get far today anyway, long day
07:12 PM Tom_L: in your threadpercent function, where did you get the /0.01299 from?
07:13 PM Tom_L: also in the holeDiaCalc function
07:15 PM Tom_L: i assume '\' is line continuation in python
07:16 PM jthornton: yea \ is line continuation
07:16 PM jthornton: for formulas I got them by googling
07:25 PM _unreal_: got a major step in my motor controller box done. got the motor wiring interface adapter done. now I can start dealing with logic wiring
07:44 PM gregcnc: jthorton did any of that spreadsheet make sense?
08:47 PM flyback is now known as phlyback
08:47 PM phlyback is now known as flyback