#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 05 2019
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:22 AM pink_vampire: hi
12:27 AM pink_vampire: someone here?
01:03 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:07 AM pink_vampire: what proximity sensors are recommend for homing?
01:33 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:45 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:09 AM Deejay: moin
02:10 AM pink_vampire: hi Deejay
02:10 AM pink_vampire: Deejay: do you know what proximity sensors are recommend for homing?
02:10 AM Deejay: hi pink
02:11 AM Deejay: unfortunately not :(
02:11 AM Deejay: do proximity sensors have a good reproducable accuracy?
02:12 AM pink_vampire: no idea,
02:12 AM Deejay: so that the machine stops always at the same home-position
02:12 AM pink_vampire: i build some optic based ones, but the chips killed them
02:13 AM Deejay: outch
02:13 AM * Deejay has simple mechanical switches
02:14 AM Deejay: but i also destroyed one of them ;)
02:14 AM pink_vampire: i have also those here, but if i'm going to make it again i want something that is chip resistance
02:53 AM miss0r: deejay: Inductive switches has good repeatability
02:54 AM miss0r: assuming you are moving towards them at a constant speed(the same every time). the it will position within a few 1/1000mm
02:54 AM pink_vampire: miss0r: what model is recommended?
02:55 AM miss0r: Depends on your needs. But if possible go for the lowest range possible
02:55 AM miss0r: i.e. 0.8 or 1.2mm
02:55 AM miss0r: I can recommend schneider brand
02:55 AM miss0r: or even omron
02:56 AM pink_vampire: and to do fly by or approaching?
02:56 AM miss0r: well. that is a bit of a tradeoff
02:57 AM miss0r: you get best accuracy doing approach, but you very much put the switch in harms way doing that
02:57 AM miss0r: the repeatability is also very good doing flyby, but not 'as good'
02:57 AM Deejay: re
02:58 AM miss0r: I always recommend doing flyby
02:58 AM pink_vampire: so 8mm sensor approaching vs 2mm sensor fly by
02:58 AM pink_vampire: what do you think is better?
02:59 AM miss0r: if your setup is rigid enough and you do a two step homing(high speed location followed by low speed homing at a static speed) then flyby is good enough for most applications
02:59 AM miss0r: are you talking about detection distance?
02:59 AM miss0r: in that case I would say both numbers are too great
03:00 AM pink_vampire: i want to go rapid, then do slow feed
03:01 AM miss0r: well. its a tradeoff you'd have to make with yourself. You get the best accuracy doing aproach, but chances of a collision is there. however; the precision of the flyby is not that bad, if you get a proper schneider inductive switch
03:01 AM miss0r: but in either case, you'd want a much smapper range
03:01 AM miss0r: smaller*
03:02 AM pink_vampire: i'm not sure how to mount the sensor on the x axis that avoid chip buildup
03:02 AM miss0r: send me a picture, then I might be able to give you some ideas
03:02 AM pink_vampire: it is the g0704
03:03 AM miss0r: put it underneath the table close to one of the hand wheels, and have it read a surface mounted on the cross mount
03:05 AM pink_vampire: i took some pictures
03:06 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/reqUClJ.png
03:06 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/nyFSfz9.png
03:06 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/3JxvesU.png
03:07 AM miss0r: so you are conserned with the Y-axis ? not the x-axis?
03:07 AM pink_vampire: x and y
03:07 AM pink_vampire: the Z is vary easy
03:08 AM miss0r: x axis is also easy, if you place the sensor underneath the table close to either end of it, and have it look for a bracket mounted on the x-slide part in the middle
03:09 AM miss0r: the y-axis is a bit more tricky.. perhaps I would make an extender arm on the side of the y-axis slide that reached to the back of the vertical column, and have the inductive switch placed there
03:09 AM pink_vampire: how can i mount it it?
03:09 AM miss0r: mill a bracket and thread in on there?
03:10 AM pink_vampire: the sensor is like a threaded rod, not sure how to mount it on the bottom
03:11 AM miss0r: make an aluminum block with a a threaded hole in it to fit the sensor, and use one of the nuts supplied with the sensor to lock it in place. then make two threaded holes in the bottom of the table or somewhere close to the handwheels underneath the table where you can screw it into place
03:11 AM miss0r: then have a bracket on the y-axis slide/cross slide in the middle that said switch is looking for
03:12 AM miss0r: making sense? :)
03:12 AM pink_vampire: you mean next to the x axis ballscrew?
03:13 AM miss0r: sure
03:13 AM miss0r: if that is where you can fit it .)
03:13 AM pink_vampire: i don't get how to fit it there
03:14 AM miss0r: snap a photo of the underside of the x-axis
03:14 AM pink_vampire: ok, one sec
03:18 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/xl9lVyC.png
03:18 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/mLAJadI.png?1
03:19 AM pink_vampire: lol - it is all covered with chips and oil
03:20 AM miss0r: https://imgur.com/a/N9zodTI
03:20 AM miss0r: perhaps a bracket on the face where I have placed a red circle
03:20 AM miss0r: and have the inductive switch located somewhere in there where the blue circle is
03:21 AM miss0r: that should give you enough clearance to do stuff
03:21 AM miss0r: remember, you can get inductive switches that are down to 4mm in diameter
03:22 AM pink_vampire: where? all the stuff on ebay are very big
03:22 AM miss0r: conrad electronics or rs-online
03:24 AM pink_vampire: is there a way to probe the location of the machine with my datum?
03:25 AM miss0r: you'd need to elaborate a bit on that
03:26 AM pink_vampire: it is on a fixed location on the table
03:26 AM miss0r: you can. but you will probably need to fine ajust the position of the switch a bit to make it perfect
03:28 AM pink_vampire: yeah, but you still need the home switches for the g53 0
03:30 AM miss0r: I don't see the problem? :)
03:31 AM pink_vampire: I love the probe a bit more them putting homing sensors
03:31 AM miss0r: I don't follow you
03:33 AM pink_vampire: I was thinking that i might be ableto use the probe and the tool setter datum as my homing switches, but you cant because you need the machine to be home before you can use the probe :(
03:34 AM miss0r: yeah well. the machine needs to know where it is mechanically
03:34 AM miss0r: that makes sense
03:34 AM pink_vampire: yeah,..
03:35 AM pink_vampire: what do you think about the pnp vs npn sensors?
03:36 AM pink_vampire: what is easier to connect to the c10 board?
03:36 AM miss0r: c10 board... ? :)
03:36 AM pink_vampire: the c10 bob
03:37 AM miss0r: hmm looking at it now
03:37 AM miss0r: so, apparently you need to find some 5volt inductive switches or have a relay(not recommended) in between
03:38 AM miss0r: hmm.. perhaps a voltage divider would be in order to get a proper 24v one
03:38 AM pink_vampire: is there 12V sensors?
03:39 AM miss0r: I would assume
03:39 AM miss0r: but you bob board takes 5-volt signal
03:39 AM pink_vampire: i have 5V and 12V in the panel
03:39 AM miss0r: npn is for a "negative feedback" and pnp is for "positive feedback"
03:40 AM miss0r: yes, but your inputs are 5 volt
03:40 AM miss0r: unless you get a 5-volt proximity switch, you'd need a voltage divider to feed the signal to the board
03:40 AM pink_vampire: i can drive an optocupler from the sensor
03:41 AM foadsf: Hello everyone, I would appreciate if you could take a look at my question here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CNC/comments/b9olrv/using_single_board_computers_and_free_software_to/
03:41 AM miss0r: from the bob?
03:42 AM pink_vampire: to use something like the sharp817 and use it as a switch
03:42 AM miss0r: Indeed
03:43 AM miss0r: The precision of optical switches are higher than the proximity switches, no doubt. but they are more prone to faliure do to crud
03:43 AM pink_vampire: it is better to use input per axis?
03:43 AM miss0r: That is what I usualy do
03:43 AM pink_vampire: miss0r: this is the optocupler https://d1xahwiwo4b49p.cloudfront.net/630-large_default/pc817-el817-4-pin-phototransistor-photocoupler.jpg
03:44 AM miss0r: that would work
03:44 AM pink_vampire: it is just an optoisolator, you can drive it with any voltage like an led..
03:44 AM miss0r: yeah
03:46 AM pink_vampire: so i need something that when it active it will go to 1 logic? or 0 logic?
03:46 AM miss0r: reading on your board, it would seem it can handle both
03:46 AM miss0r: it says it has both pull-up and pull-down resistors you can choose from
03:47 AM pink_vampire: i mean if you look from a safety perspective
03:47 AM miss0r: but with proximity switches, it is good practice to use 0-logic
03:47 AM miss0r: that way, if theres a cable/wire faliure, the machine will think it has hit the end stop
03:47 AM pink_vampire: i see
03:48 AM pink_vampire: how do i know if the sensor is 0 or 1 logic?
03:48 AM miss0r: https://uk.rs-online.com/euro/img/site/campaigns/iz/transistor-sensor-1.jpg
03:50 AM pink_vampire: not sure
03:50 AM miss0r: this will not be a 100% solution, if you wanted that, you'd need "safety proximity switches"
03:50 AM miss0r: which are big, bulky and expensive
03:50 AM miss0r: this is basically: do you get a plus or a minus back from the sensor
03:50 AM miss0r: difference between npn and pnp
03:51 AM miss0r: but since you have an upto in the mix, I would go for the pnp
03:51 AM miss0r: and not do 0-logic
03:51 AM miss0r: fingers crossed'n all that :)
03:52 AM miss0r: I need to run, I have a client comming in an hour, and I need to clean a bit here first :) I hope I've been of some assistance - I will be back here later
03:52 AM pink_vampire: thanks!
03:53 AM miss0r: no problem - any time ;)
03:53 AM pink_vampire: cool!
04:24 AM XXCoder: boo
04:28 AM pink_vampire: baa
04:28 AM XXCoder: brr
04:29 AM pink_vampire: b??
04:31 AM jthornton: morning
04:31 AM XXCoder: bee
04:31 AM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAbCUrkCCIQ
04:32 AM pink_vampire: i need it in my life
04:32 AM pink_vampire: what are those circle stuff on the door window?
04:32 AM XXCoder: heh I want one too
04:32 AM XXCoder: what time in video?
04:33 AM sensille: get one for me, too
04:34 AM pink_vampire: 1:55
04:35 AM XXCoder: not sure too. never seen that before
04:36 AM pink_vampire: it is on all the new dmg
04:36 AM XXCoder: i ran doosan machine for first time this week and ran it entire week. i like it, not best but way better than old okuma it replaced.
04:38 AM pink_vampire: where it is made?
04:38 AM XXCoder: no idea?
04:40 AM jthornton: pink_vampire: the circles spin the coolant off so you can see, they use them in ships too to spin the condensation and water spray off
04:41 AM XXCoder: ohh fancy
04:42 AM pink_vampire: cool!!
04:44 AM XXCoder: after waiting 500 years, i finally got toy caliper
04:44 AM XXCoder: its funny
04:45 AM pink_vampire: ?!
04:45 AM pink_vampire: what is a toy caliper?
04:45 AM XXCoder: its fully functional, it has depth measurement, inside and outside
04:45 AM XXCoder: a caliper, but a toy
04:45 AM pink_vampire: pic!!
04:45 AM XXCoder: a sec
04:46 AM XXCoder: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-1Pc-Mini-Plastic-Ruler-Sliding-80mm-Vernier-Caliper-Gauge-Measure-Tools/32907023605.html
04:46 AM XXCoder: mine is reddish-pinkish
04:46 AM XXCoder: or red-orangish
04:46 AM pink_vampire: i got an anvil
04:47 AM XXCoder: nice I think still have one from dad
04:47 AM XXCoder: tiny one
04:49 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton think certification dept will certify my toy caliper? heh
04:50 AM pink_vampire: +-0.1mm
04:50 AM XXCoder: it has marks for .05mm lol
04:51 AM jthornton: give it a try lol
04:52 AM XXCoder: my tape measure (i have rare meteric one): 23mm. toy caliper: 22mm
04:52 AM jthornton: I really need to get these NHR Carriers done and quit putzing around with them
04:52 AM XXCoder: oh wait 23mm miscounted marks
04:52 AM XXCoder: there, its certified for toy usage!
04:57 AM pink_vampire: my new anvil https://i.imgur.com/8yxIRte.png
04:57 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ^
04:57 AM pink_vampire: jthornton: ^
04:57 AM pink_vampire: sensille: ^
04:57 AM XXCoder: lol pretty cool
04:57 AM XXCoder: whats you plan to do with it
04:58 AM jthornton: needs a little cleaning?
04:59 AM sensille: oh, i want one, 3x the size :)
04:59 AM pink_vampire: this anvil is the machinist version of this device
04:59 AM pink_vampire: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB15uYyvv5TBuNjSspcq6znGFXap/3pcs-Professional-Nail-Art-Painting-Tools-Finger-Stand-Support-Manicure-Tools-Pink-Finger-stand-nail-polish.jpg
05:00 AM sensille: pink!
05:00 AM pink_vampire: yes?
05:00 AM sensille: that pic is pure pink
05:01 AM XXCoder: lol
05:04 AM pink_vampire: it have hardened surface and very nice ring sound
05:05 AM XXCoder: nice
05:05 AM pink_vampire: i need a nano furnace
05:16 AM * SpeedEvil passes pink_vampire the worlds tiniest violin.
05:18 AM pink_vampire: SpeedEvil: ??
05:18 AM SpeedEvil: nano furnace related fuel.
05:19 AM SpeedEvil: ^You mean a tube CVD furnace?
05:20 AM pink_vampire: something very very very small
05:20 AM XXCoder: https://hackaday.com/2019/04/02/custom-inflatables-are-only-a-laser-beam-away/ lol
05:21 AM pink_vampire: why lol?
05:21 AM SpeedEvil: Packaging would be an obvious reason.
05:22 AM SpeedEvil: Adjustable pnumatic positioners.
05:22 AM SpeedEvil: (low pressure, large area)
05:22 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: honestly it looks very cool. I had some ideas
05:22 AM XXCoder: like inflatable hoverboat rc
05:22 AM XXCoder: but yeah speed has more ideas
05:23 AM SpeedEvil: Airfish. With integral muscles.
05:23 AM pink_vampire: ok, ok, laser cutter is added to the list.
05:23 AM XXCoder: airfish?
05:23 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: !!! air fish!!
05:23 AM SpeedEvil: You can also make near net shape 'polyhedra' which 'tile' well into a 3d volume.
05:24 AM XXCoder: first result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYFEFekPzDM
05:24 AM pink_vampire: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1ANzSigvD8KJjy0Flq6ygBFXab/RC-Air-Fly-Fish-Shark-Toys-RC-Shark-Clown-Fish-Balloons-Nemo-Inflatable-with-Helium-Plane.jpg
05:24 AM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: Take a fish, now make it float in air using helium. Propulsion is done in the usual manner by swimming with fins and tail using actuators
05:24 AM Tom_L: morning
05:24 AM SpeedEvil: ^or hydrogen if you're cheap and have insurance.
05:24 AM XXCoder: interesting
05:24 AM XXCoder: heh abiloity to make any custom air fish would be interesting
05:25 AM SpeedEvil: They get better the bigger they are, from a technical perspective.
05:25 AM SpeedEvil: square cube and all that.
05:25 AM XXCoder: bigger version of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_5-RIa3_9s
06:06 AM SpeedEvil: Edge precision - four hundred tools per part.
06:06 AM SpeedEvil: amazing.
06:07 AM XXCoder: 400 tools to make one part?
06:07 AM SpeedEvil: That was somewhat hyperbole.
06:08 AM SpeedEvil: I don't think he actually said the number of tools he was using.
06:08 AM SpeedEvil: But - massive very complex stainless (?) part, so frequent changes
06:09 AM XXCoder: dang
06:15 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlNDIoJjxOM (above part)
06:16 AM XXCoder: camera has airblade attachment?
06:17 AM SpeedEvil: yes
06:17 AM XXCoder: but yeah that part looks extremely complex
06:17 AM SpeedEvil: he covers that in another video
06:17 AM XXCoder: it beats one part type i ran few times across couple years
06:17 AM SpeedEvil: construction of. Nice solid aluminium box, with an airblade hemade
06:18 AM XXCoder: hard to beat that part even though its small enough to almost manage to hide in hand
06:18 AM SpeedEvil: smallhas its own issues. :)
06:18 AM XXCoder: heh that tiny part has it all
06:18 AM XXCoder: it has 3 gauges just to check one bore set
06:19 AM XXCoder: another for ears bores
06:19 AM XXCoder: theres 4 more different hole sizes
06:19 AM XXCoder: it has 5 tap sizes to check
06:19 AM XXCoder: theres 6 small tabs, detail depth on sides
06:19 AM XXCoder: its curved but not round so long cnc op there
06:20 AM XXCoder: i think theres around 40 features
06:20 AM XXCoder: which is HEFY amount of stuff to check for such a tiny part
06:21 AM XXCoder: wanna know what makes it worse?
06:21 AM XXCoder: it still has more ops AFTER anodize
06:22 AM SpeedEvil: I bet that destroys tooling.
06:22 AM XXCoder: to finish inside pocket to size ( .020" side sizes)
06:22 AM XXCoder: flat area, and adds 4 nearly half inch deep tap holes
06:22 AM XXCoder: 1/2 inch dont sound like much till you realize how thin bolts for it would be.
06:23 AM XXCoder: nah tools live pretty damn forever
06:23 AM XXCoder: most breakable tool lasts maybe 1,000 parts
06:23 AM SpeedEvil: ah - I was assuming anodising would do bad things
06:23 AM XXCoder: surpising no effect
06:24 AM XXCoder: tools for that never broke besides tap, that was only because someone screwed up and hit bottom
06:24 AM XXCoder: anyway end result is 45 featured, 2 color anodized part
06:24 AM XXCoder: very complex for one use part..
06:25 AM XXCoder: once used its destroyed and useless
07:55 AM Loetmichel: *snicker* PMMA sheet + CNC router + bunsen torch lighter = finest cable guide/plug clip... http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17337&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 ... i especially like how the bunsen torch made the endges and bends shiny ;)
07:58 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:10 AM SpeedEvil: Flame polishing is nearly lame.
08:16 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: in this case its jsut a side effect of hand bending the acrylic
08:16 AM Loetmichel: but nice to look at
08:41 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:09 AM fragalot: 'sup
01:06 PM Jymmm: fragalot: not much buttercup
01:09 PM roycroft: so one quick tig welding question for the day (although quick questions often turn into long discussions)
01:09 PM roycroft: is the 1 second postflow per 0.001" thickness rule of thumb even remotely applicable to welding 3/8" steel?
01:09 PM roycroft: with a water-cooled torch, of course
01:10 PM roycroft: i don't want 38 seconds of postflow for every tack weld
01:10 PM roycroft: 'cuz i'm too old for that and will be dead before my project is complete :)
01:10 PM roycroft: not to mention i don't have an unlimited budget for argon
01:13 PM Loetmichel: *hmpf* new (old) car: already damaged. hust went to the local electronics store because i forgot to order an antenna adapter for my new satnav/radio that got delivered... on the way back: *brrrrr POP ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOO*... sounds like a broken exhaust manifold... (couldnt see any parts in the rearview mirror, so probably no mufflers lost, just a pipe rusted thru somewhere). Thats what you get
01:13 PM Loetmichel: for buying a 2001 BMW 525i. *GGRRRRR*
01:15 PM Jymmm: Loetmichel: Sorry to hear that
01:18 PM rmu: roycroft: in my book, 3/8" is 375 thou, ergo 375 seconds
01:32 PM roycroft: er, 0.1 seconds per thousandth
01:32 PM roycroft: sorry
01:32 PM roycroft: or 1 second per 0.010"
01:32 PM roycroft: however you want to look at it
01:33 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: you don't need to go above 10 seconds
01:33 PM fragalot: ever. as far as i'm concerned
01:33 PM roycroft: i'll be doing some experimenting, but as i've said before, i'd like to start out close to something that works and then dial it in
01:34 PM roycroft: instead of just guessing
01:34 PM roycroft: i've never tig welded mild steel before, nor anything that thick
01:34 PM fragalot: I think ym machine is set to 8 seconds, and i've never changed it from there, mainly because it is a PITA to get to that setting
01:34 PM roycroft: i'ts easy on mine
01:35 PM roycroft: i'm thinking it may not need to be that long because the torch is water cooled
01:35 PM roycroft: certainly the weld won't need 38 seconds
01:35 PM fragalot: it's not just to cool your torch
01:35 PM roycroft: the long postflow is pirmarily to cool the torch
01:35 PM roycroft: primarily
01:35 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: Bend the manifolds the other way and let the pipes come out of the hood.
01:35 PM fragalot: that, and I like keeping the stainless shiny
01:35 PM FinboySlick: Turn that failure into a feature!
01:35 PM roycroft: and if i'm honest, the tack welds will be smaller than the final welds
01:35 PM roycroft: they will be covered up
01:36 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: i doubt the german "TÜV" would like that
01:36 PM roycroft: so i don't care if they're a little crufty
01:36 PM roycroft: i can always clean them up before welding over them
01:36 PM Loetmichel: they are a bit picky when it comes to "loud pipes save lives" ;)
01:36 PM roycroft: and this is mild steel that will be painted
01:36 PM roycroft: not sanitary stainless welding that must be really smooth and pretty
01:37 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: Actually, that's a good idea. add an electric motor to your fan belt. Then all you can say is: "It's an hybrid and those are the pedestrian safety feature."
01:37 PM roycroft: maybe i'll start out at 20 seconds and see if it works out
01:38 PM Loetmichel: ahem: E39 have no fan belts
01:38 PM Loetmichel: electric radiator fan ;)
01:38 PM roycroft: if you have no fan belt then how do you beat your fans into cheering for you?
01:38 PM fragalot: roycroft: jumper leads
01:39 PM fragalot: also, for the electric cars you can always get a rumbler
01:39 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: Put an h-bridge to your alternator then? That way you can save on the hybrid motor.
01:40 PM FinboySlick: When there's a will, there's a way.
01:40 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: seriously: i would LIKE to buy an old E36 convertible again and convert it to electric... sadly thats not doable financially here in germany. the TÜV (road safety test organisation) requires a EMI measurement certificate for EVERY part you put in AND one for the whole car
01:40 PM Loetmichel: the certificates alone add up to more than 10k eur
01:40 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: sounds like your kind of thing though
01:41 PM FinboySlick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3EBs7sCOzo
01:41 PM Loetmichel: ben there, asked them
01:41 PM FinboySlick: I think of this every time Loetmichel mentions his car.
01:42 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: i can tell you waht happens: you go to jail
01:42 PM fragalot: :D
01:42 PM Loetmichel: and its EXPENSIVE to get caught without a license
01:43 PM Loetmichel: several 1000 eur minium fine. PLUS the (optional) jail time AND a locked license
01:43 PM Loetmichel: you cant regain it for several years after such a stund
01:43 PM Loetmichel: stunt
01:43 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: what if you had a valid license until the 12th of april and it is suddenly 13th of april, but you could not get it exchanged because they only allowed you to do that until 29th of march?
01:43 PM FinboySlick: Yeah, but what if you don't get caught?
01:43 PM Loetmichel: and dont forget that licenses in germany cost about 2500 eur for cars only ;)
01:43 PM Loetmichel: then you dont get caught
01:44 PM FinboySlick: See? That wasn't so hard.
01:44 PM Loetmichel: you now the 11th commandment? "DONT GET CAUHGT" ;)
01:45 PM Loetmichel: agains common belive germans are not THAT rule abiding they are painted to be
01:45 PM Loetmichel: just a BIT more than some other countrys citizens
01:45 PM Loetmichel: on average
01:45 PM fragalot: ha. :-)
01:45 PM fragalot: holy shit
01:45 PM fragalot: they clapped in the house of commons
01:46 PM Loetmichel: did theresa may resign?
01:46 PM fragalot: no, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H3WuPe_y_4
01:47 PM sync: the trick is to use a convertible before 1996
01:48 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: licenses in germany dont expire
01:48 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: let me explain why I said those explicit dates
01:48 PM fragalot: my gf is from the UK, living in belgium
01:49 PM fragalot: 2 months ago, we went to ask what to do about her license with this whole brexit thing
01:49 PM fragalot: they said nothing
01:49 PM fragalot: so today she went again
01:49 PM fragalot: "oh you could only exchange it until march 29th according to the instructions we received last month"
01:49 PM Loetmichel: nice
01:49 PM fragalot: yeah.
01:49 PM Loetmichel: try again
01:50 PM fragalot: bureaucracy.
01:50 PM Loetmichel: may got an extension
01:50 PM Loetmichel: maybe they exchange it now
01:50 PM fragalot: she tried TODAY.
01:50 PM Loetmichel: ah
01:50 PM Loetmichel: hmm
01:50 PM Loetmichel: mad
01:50 PM Loetmichel: bad
01:50 PM fragalot: their instructions just have the old date on it
01:51 PM Loetmichel: i would try again tomorrow and tell them that they got an extension
01:51 PM fragalot: you're just talking to intern staff there
01:51 PM Loetmichel: preferably not the same person though
01:51 PM Loetmichel: intern staff?
01:51 PM fragalot: first you make an appointment to make clear what it is you want to go for, you get 5 minutes at a desk with someone that goes "I can't change anything, these are my instructions, next please"
01:52 PM fragalot: making an appointment for anything takes 2 weeks
01:52 PM Loetmichel: you dont live in Offenbach am main by chance?
01:52 PM fragalot: and they are only open in the morning from 10am until 12:05
01:52 PM fragalot: on weekdays, except for monday and thursday
01:54 PM Loetmichel: you MUST live in OF ;)
01:54 PM fragalot: :D
01:55 PM fragalot: but yeha her license will now cease to be valid on april 13th
01:56 PM fragalot: so we're going to the UK on april 12th on holiday to request an international license, which should hopefully be done by the time we head back
01:56 PM Loetmichel: hopefully ;)
01:56 PM fragalot: whether MY license will be valid there when we're on holiday is another matter :D
01:57 PM Loetmichel: and THAT should be then be able to be converted ito a valid german one
01:57 PM fragalot: so I may have to drive up to the eurostar tunnel, and she may need to continue once (if) we arrive
01:57 PM fragalot: assuming eurostar's license isn't revoked
01:57 PM fragalot: :D
02:01 PM gloops: i wouldnt worry about paperwork, absolutely anyone can just walk in here and do whatever they want
02:01 PM fragalot: this is not there
02:02 PM fragalot: here*
02:22 PM gloops: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/05/uk-removes-words-european-union-from-british-passports?CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1554491371
02:25 PM miss0r: fragalot: First of 10 shafts/axels are now complete: https://imgur.com/a/GIKlphF
02:46 PM fragalot: miss0r: those are looking pretty snazzy!
02:46 PM miss0r: indeed. better than any original land rover part ever did :)
02:47 PM fragalot: as if that is hard :p
02:51 PM miss0r: fragalot: Meh.. not realy hard
02:51 PM miss0r: syyl: Remember the splines I asked about in here a while back? I've completed the first of 10 shafts now (after some delay:D ) https://imgur.com/a/GIKlphF
02:52 PM syyl: yay
02:52 PM syyl: how are you cutting them now?
02:53 PM JT-Shop: wow that's nice looking
02:53 PM miss0r: With a dividing head and a 6mm endmill
02:54 PM miss0r: as they were 90degrees, all options are open
02:54 PM fragalot: good job you have that 4th axis eh :D
02:54 PM miss0r: man it would be sweet if I can a cnc 4-axis
02:55 PM miss0r: I rotate the dividing head and press execute on the cnc
02:55 PM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cnc-router-machine-with-8-x-4-bed-running-Mach-3/153441087661?
02:55 PM miss0r: rotate -> execute -> rotate -> execute... ect
02:55 PM miss0r: 44 cycles per end
02:55 PM gloops: theyre getting pretty good with these pallet creations
02:56 PM fragalot: miss0r: or at least rig up a system like syyl did
02:56 PM fragalot: "44 divisions please"
02:57 PM miss0r: honnestly, I thought about it
02:57 PM miss0r: and almost lost my rotation direction while doing so :D
02:57 PM fragalot: i've managed to get an hour of programming in for my lathe's electr~onic leadscrew
02:57 PM syyl: perfect, miss0r :D
02:57 PM syyl: i painted the splashwall of my lathe in the meantime
02:58 PM fragalot: just need to get it to deal with overflows correctly, and make a UI, but the motion part seems to work
02:58 PM syyl: and got rid of the compound
02:58 PM miss0r: I think I'll complete this batch and then go make a version of syyl's dividing controller
02:58 PM miss0r: fragalot: Meh... that stuff should be childsplay for you ;)
02:58 PM fragalot: miss0r: I'm only a man though :D
02:58 PM miss0r: fragalot: Thats not the talk of the town...
02:59 PM miss0r: LGBT+ is okay now, you know
02:59 PM fragalot: most of the time was spent figuring out why it didn't work anymore only to find out that the board was faulty
02:59 PM miss0r: lol
02:59 PM fragalot: (bad solder joint on one of it's voltage regulators)
02:59 PM miss0r: also, sad news: I missed out on that compact 6
03:00 PM fragalot: that wasn't enough lathe for you anyway
03:00 PM miss0r: a guy snatched it right under my nose
03:00 PM miss0r: but it was sooo cute :D
03:00 PM fragalot: you need a C axis, Y axis, and live tooling
03:00 PM fragalot: :P
03:00 PM miss0r: you're right.. and a bigger shop to put it in ;)
03:00 PM fragalot: if the lathe is big enough, it IS your shop
03:00 PM syyl: i would love a emcoturn 120 or compact 6
03:00 PM miss0r: hehe
03:00 PM syyl: just without that stupid turret
03:01 PM miss0r: syyl: I almost bought one today
03:01 PM miss0r: for 2100eur
03:01 PM miss0r: but apparently, a guy picked up before I could
03:01 PM syyl: dang
03:01 PM miss0r: yeah
03:01 PM syyl: did it have the absurd large controll cabinet? :D
03:01 PM miss0r: not often you see them for sale in that price range
03:01 PM miss0r: yeah
03:01 PM syyl: :D
03:01 PM syyl: i would ditch that right away
03:02 PM syyl: on the way home, just at the side of the road
03:02 PM miss0r: lol
03:02 PM fragalot: syyl: but there is a certain je ne sais quoi to the oldschool controllers
03:02 PM syyl: thats a lot of green
03:02 PM syyl: http://gtwr.de/div/emcosuper11_087.jpg
03:02 PM syyl: http://gtwr.de/div/emcosuper11_088.jpg
03:03 PM miss0r: ARE THOSE CHIPS ON THE WAY COVER?! HOW DO YOU EXPECT TO MAKE GOOD WORK WITH CHIPS ON THE WAY COVER?! (imagine any drill sergant ever)
03:03 PM miss0r: looks like a CGI stage setup...
03:03 PM fragalot: syyl: how are you liking your new toy?
03:03 PM syyl: close, miss0r ;)
03:03 PM syyl: love it, fragalot
03:03 PM syyl: <3
03:04 PM syyl: suprisingly rigid for such a small machine
03:04 PM fragalot: :D
03:04 PM syyl: i tried hardturning with cbn yesterday
03:04 PM syyl: 2,5mm DOC in HSS
03:04 PM syyl: sound of the machine didnt even change
03:04 PM fragalot: how long until you replace the tailstock with one of those rack&pinion systems?
03:04 PM fragalot: nice!
03:04 PM syyl: http://gtwr.de/div/emcosuper11_082.jpg
03:05 PM fragalot: mine can do 2.5mm DOC in teflon.
03:05 PM syyl: i will keep the handcrank tailstock
03:05 PM Rab: Why the hate? This interface is awesome: https://photobucket.com/gallery/user/CNC4Cheap/media/cGF0aDpFTUNPIENvbXBhY3QgNlAgQ05DL0VNQ08xX3pwczM5ZjJlNTI3LmpwZw==/?ref=
03:05 PM syyl: if i need quick-retract drilling, i will drill with the carriage
03:05 PM fragalot: syyl: That's pretty damn nice
03:05 PM FinboySlick: syyl: You should frame that last picture.
03:05 PM fragalot: oh yeah i forgot you had a DRO on there
03:05 PM Rab: Rig it up as a vector MAME cabinet and play asteroids while running Axis from your Android tablet.
03:06 PM FinboySlick: syyl: Send it to Tony with a caption: "My hands may not be as beautiful as yours, but my chips are."
03:06 PM syyl: haha
03:06 PM syyl: my hands dont get clean anymore
03:10 PM fragalot: syyl: the trick is to slather them in lard every hour or so
03:10 PM fragalot: the slippier the better
03:10 PM syyl: yeah, because i have nothing better to do
03:10 PM syyl: :D
03:10 PM FinboySlick: syyl: Very impressive. The finish on that cut too.
03:11 PM syyl: and thats a full depth cut, without finishcut :D
03:11 PM syyl: could improve the finish a bit
03:11 PM FinboySlick: I was about to ask what the finish pass was.
03:11 PM syyl: ha :D
03:12 PM fragalot: have you tried hard turning on your previous one?
03:12 PM syyl: yes
03:12 PM syyl: i did it a lot
03:12 PM syyl: got great finishes, but couldnt take nearly a cut that depth
03:12 PM fragalot: I should have added some inserts to my last 2 orders at apt..
03:13 PM fragalot: save me some time grinding :P
03:13 PM FinboySlick: But if it was a Gotteswinter-sharpened lathe tool, that's a bit like cheating.
03:13 PM syyl: i am to cheap to buy new cbn inserts
03:13 PM syyl: i recycle old ones
03:13 PM FinboySlick: :s/recycle/improve/
03:13 PM syyl: reshape/resharpen them
03:14 PM syyl: or even take the cbn off and braze it to a new shank, for example on a boring bar
03:14 PM fragalot: do you just get used ebay lots then & hope for the best?
03:15 PM FinboySlick: fragalot: Hoping has nothing to do with it. The best just comes naturally to him.
03:16 PM fragalot: seems that way, then again he does live in surplus central
03:17 PM syyl: lol
03:18 PM syyl: there is a guy who comes to our machinist meetups
03:18 PM syyl: who sells partialy used cbn inserts for a very reasonable price ;)
03:18 PM fragalot: neat :-)
03:18 PM syyl: and as long as they are not chiped, there is life left in them.
03:18 PM miss0r: Why don't I know a guy like that :)
03:19 PM fragalot: miss0r: you have no reason to complain, Mr. I get brand new endmills by the bucketload
03:19 PM miss0r: not brand new.. they have run 125minuts in soft plastics
03:19 PM miss0r: :D
03:19 PM XXCoder: 125 min on plastics? still basically new
03:20 PM miss0r: yeah :)
03:20 PM miss0r: but not brand new, mr. fragalot
03:20 PM miss0r: :D
03:20 PM syyl: not if its G10 ;)
03:20 PM miss0r: mostly pom
03:20 PM XXCoder: if it was fiberglass I'd run far awat from it lol
03:20 PM syyl: :D
03:20 PM fragalot: syyl: is G10 considered a "soft" plastic?
03:20 PM syyl: no
03:20 PM miss0r: :D
03:20 PM syyl: its abrasive and hard as heck
03:21 PM syyl: awesome material
03:21 PM syyl: but most nasty to work with
03:21 PM fragalot: :p
03:21 PM miss0r: the 'only brand new until seal is broken' still counts
03:21 PM miss0r: but yeah.. I'm pretty lucky to have that supplyer
03:22 PM fragalot: my main tooling & material supplier turned 94 last year
03:22 PM fragalot: and he's stopped selling materials now
03:26 PM gregcnc: i don't know why I keep thinking screw clearance drills with countersink are a thing in smaller sizes (M2)
03:29 PM syyl: you can get them in M2
03:30 PM gregcnc: big enough for a flat head?
03:30 PM gregcnc: I have Mikron pilot drill
03:30 PM syyl: if you live in the metric part of the world, probably ;)
03:31 PM syyl: wow
03:31 PM syyl: i lied to you
03:31 PM syyl: they start at m3
03:31 PM syyl: sorry :(
03:31 PM gregcnc: yeah we have dormer here
03:32 PM syyl: you can get a piloted countersink for M2
03:33 PM syyl: but thats probably not what you want ;)
03:36 PM gregcnc: yeah maybe i'll try a small mill-drill
03:41 PM andypugh: Make one?
03:41 PM andypugh: Just put an M3 one on your T&C grinder.
03:41 PM andypugh: (I am very proud of that “just” there)
03:44 PM gregcnc: yeah, if i could do that it would be done. it may be time to get a tool grinder
03:49 PM fragalot: it is.
03:50 PM fragalot: i've got one of those 80's deckel D-bit grinder clones
03:50 PM fragalot: and it has already paid itself back several times
03:57 PM roycroft: i've considered a used deckel or a deckel clone
03:57 PM roycroft: my biggest problem is where to put it
03:57 PM roycroft: i don't want to start moving machinery into my dining room
04:00 PM andypugh: roycroft: They are quite small. Maybe a kitchen cupbard?
04:00 PM andypugh: I could fit one comfortably inside the lathe cabinet in my liing room :-)
04:01 PM andypugh: (living room)
04:05 PM roycroft: yes, i know they're quite small
04:05 PM roycroft: but i have a lot of quite small things
04:05 PM roycroft: and a lot of not quite so small things
04:06 PM roycroft: i'm working on storage though
04:06 PM roycroft: by this weekend i'll have the drawers completed for a couple cabinets i built to fit in my lathe stand
04:06 PM roycroft: and my 4 jaw and tool holders and collets and tooling and all that other nice lathe stuff will have a home instead of being scattered about everywhere
04:07 PM roycroft: but then i'm going to build a belt grinder, which will be not as small as a tool grinder, and i still haven't figured out exactly where the stuff that it will displace will be living
04:08 PM roycroft: my shop could work a lot better and be a lot tidier if i ever finish building storage fixtures for things
04:08 PM roycroft: that's a big part of what this year is about for me
04:08 PM roycroft: but getting more stuff while i'm in the middle of organizing my existing stuff is not very productive
04:10 PM roycroft: which is why i just got another half dozen big woodworking parallel clamps
04:10 PM roycroft: that are sitting in the middle of the shop floor because they have no home
04:15 PM Jymmm: lol, they are clamps, clamp them to something and they will have a temporary home at least
04:27 PM roycroft: i actually need them to finish making the aforementioned drawers this weekend
04:27 PM roycroft: then i can stash them somewhere until i build a new clamp rack for them
04:28 PM roycroft: i realised just now that it might have been a good idea to order a gas lens kit for my welder before this upcoming project
04:28 PM Deejay: gn8
04:28 PM roycroft: but it's too late for that now unless i want to pay overnight shipping, as the welding commences on tuesday at the latest
04:43 PM jdh: order anyway. something could go wrong beforehand.
04:48 PM mase-tech: hi
04:50 PM XXCoder: hey
04:50 PM XXCoder: oh left already
05:04 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:07 PM tumdedum_ is now known as tumdedum
06:11 PM tiwake: I start my new job on monday
06:11 PM tiwake: different machine shop
06:11 PM XXCoder: congats
06:14 PM Jymmm: tiwake: twice the hours, half the pay?
06:14 PM XXCoder: double the pay, half the hours
06:15 PM tiwake: heh no... same pay more hours while still keeping it sane, with tons more growth headroom
06:16 PM tiwake: never worked with mills with 4/5 axis, and lathes with Y axis... they have quite a bit of both
06:22 PM andypugh: Anybody had any luck with Stretch, RTAI and the 4.9.80 kernel?
06:23 PM andypugh: I tried building an RTAI kernel on the Preempt-RT LiveCD install.
06:23 PM andypugh: But it doesn’t really boot.
06:23 PM andypugh: (It boots far enough to tell me that it is dumping core)
06:31 PM SpeedEvil: Lathes with a y axis? unpossible!
06:31 PM SpeedEvil: (congrats!
06:42 PM XXCoder: 5 axis lathe ;)
06:42 PM XXCoder: though that brother machine comes pretty close to being 5 axis lathe.
06:42 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TUoPDvS3WE
06:43 PM tiwake: holy snot
06:43 PM tiwake: that thing rips
06:43 PM XXCoder: yeah.
06:45 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7IuBHqDBmA
06:46 PM XXCoder: love how they have insert of rerun to show how it actually looks like without coolant!
06:46 PM XXCoder: first time I see it do sideways lathe op
06:48 PM andypugh: Interesting stuff here about machine construction. The milling head that also does lathe tools has a fascinating locking mechanism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=yPqsRgPDQNs
06:49 PM XXCoder: ude
06:49 PM XXCoder: the tap is fast.
06:50 PM XXCoder: i was wondering why they re-drilled after edge breaks, but no thats tap.
06:50 PM XXCoder: it reverses on way up so fast
06:53 PM XXCoder: looks like 4" facemill?
06:53 PM XXCoder: 20:20
06:54 PM XXCoder: bah! at end it purges coolant by using lathe style. just spin clear out coolant and now part is clean and ready to be removed lol
06:54 PM XXCoder: andypugh: watching
07:01 PM XXCoder: pressure lock interestin
07:02 PM andypugh: The release is more interesting than the lock, to me.
07:02 PM XXCoder: video is diffult to follow, but then im not an engineer
07:03 PM andypugh: Probably easier if you can hear the commentry.
07:03 PM XXCoder: it was autocaptioned
07:03 PM XXCoder: kinda working
07:03 PM XXCoder: google have beta of live transcription app
07:03 PM XXCoder: i use it at work now, around autocaptions quality
07:04 PM XXCoder: its heck of a big helper. i wish I can contact google though
07:04 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/20190405_185736.jpg
07:05 PM XXCoder: homepage of that site lol
07:06 PM skunkworks: XXCoder: mine? it was a school project from the 90's... never changed it
07:06 PM XXCoder: never change it.
07:06 PM skunkworks: well - it has been this long...
07:07 PM SpeedEvil: XXCoder: is that transcriber on device, or cloud?
07:07 PM XXCoder: yeah I wonder hmm
07:07 PM XXCoder: lemme test it
07:08 PM XXCoder: it says no network connection when i disabled everything
07:08 PM XXCoder: so i guess its cloud
07:09 PM SpeedEvil: Of course it is. :/
07:09 PM XXCoder: theres a way to set local one
07:09 PM XXCoder: not sure if its same system as google tho
07:09 PM XXCoder: one of reasons i want to contact google :(
07:10 PM SpeedEvil: It would be really nice if you could purchase a $10 google support ticket.
07:11 PM XXCoder: talk with live person?
07:11 PM SpeedEvil: yeah
07:12 PM XXCoder: heh ok'
07:12 PM XXCoder: yeah would be nice
07:19 PM XXCoder: i bought a toy caliper as a toy, but its surpising good fidget toy
07:28 PM XXCoder: https://hackaday.com/2019/04/05/recreating-classic-model-kits-with-modern-tech/ pretty cool
07:30 PM XXCoder: know what'd be better? 3d pen as glue
07:46 PM roycroft: well that was fortunate
07:46 PM roycroft: i stopped in at the local airgas just for the heck of it
07:46 PM roycroft: i try to avoid that place
07:46 PM roycroft: but i went to see if they happened to have a gas lens kit for my torch
07:46 PM roycroft: and was informed that they hardly ever sell anything tig-related, and have very little stock on parts
07:47 PM roycroft: but they were able to piece together exactly what i needed
07:47 PM roycroft: i got the only collet holder, the only cup, and the only insulator they had for my application
07:47 PM roycroft: and fortunately my existing collets fit
07:48 PM roycroft: i did find it odd that they claim to sell almost zero tig-related products though
07:48 PM roycroft: 20 years ago i would not be surprised by that
07:48 PM sync: depends on the industry in the region
07:48 PM roycroft: but with all the cheap inverter machines around now i figured they would do more of that kind of business
07:49 PM roycroft: although along with the cheap inverter machines there are cheap consumables at harbor freight
07:49 PM roycroft: anyway, i have what i need to get started
07:49 PM roycroft: and i'm kind of excited to see how much better a gas lens does
07:50 PM roycroft: and they only charged me $12 for the lot
07:50 PM roycroft: that's one of the main reasons i avoid airgas
07:50 PM roycroft: if you do enough volume with them to open an account their cost is competetive
07:50 PM roycroft: if you're a cash customer the cost is about double
07:51 PM roycroft: one of the other big welding supply places in town are the same way
07:51 PM roycroft: the one i usually go to charges everyone the same price
07:51 PM roycroft: there are volume discounts, of course, but a 5# co2 fill costs me the same as a 5# co2 fill costs their biggest customer
09:09 PM jdh: even if you have an account, they charge you random prices every time you go in
09:09 PM XXCoder: ?
09:10 PM jdh: re: airgas
09:10 PM XXCoder: oh
09:49 PM skunkworks: I have an ex-reletive that works for airgas.