#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 10 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:39 AM fragalot: sup
03:23 AM Deejay: moin
03:25 AM gloops: hello
04:29 AM XXCoder: whoa
04:29 AM XXCoder: am I home?
04:29 AM XXCoder: yes! lol
04:55 AM gloops: right, suppose ive got some calibrating to do, on rebuilding the PC and config i stupidly used an old version of the config i made when i was first building the machine
04:55 AM gloops: havent saved a recent copy of files :/
04:57 AM XXCoder: :(
04:57 AM XXCoder: nobackup system?
04:59 AM gloops: i saved the whole config - which is about 98% good, the machine moves and homes etc, all the subsequent tweaking of velocities and acceleration and so on was lost though, its an hour or so closing and re-opening linuxcnc and making changes here and there lol
04:59 AM XXCoder: not too bad
05:00 AM XXCoder: not like you start from zero again
05:00 AM gloops: yeah that would be a pain, surprising though how the number come back to you after a year
05:00 AM gloops: numbers
05:00 AM gloops: ill have to check the movement is acurrate measurement wise - just routine stuff
05:01 AM XXCoder: LOL https://twitter.com/Foone/status/1103384684812255233
05:49 AM jthornton: morning
05:50 AM XXCoder: hey
06:19 AM XXCoder: jthornton: went to st patricks party today. fun
06:20 AM jthornton: cool
06:20 AM XXCoder: its annual deaf event. unfortunately young people dont go so evenually it will end
06:20 AM XXCoder: kinda sucks
06:22 AM XXCoder: im probably one of youngest there and im 43
06:24 AM Tom_L: morning
06:25 AM XXCoder: hey
06:32 AM jthornton: yea that's how it goes the kids now a days are into other stuff
06:33 AM XXCoder: yeah theres one club that has only few members left now
06:33 AM XXCoder: my dad was part of it, and we had tons people
06:33 AM XXCoder: nowdays oh well
06:34 AM XXCoder: the club is pretty old (not british old lol)
06:34 AM jthornton: https://jethornton.github.io/mill_touch/mill_touch.html
06:35 AM jthornton: making a new touch screen interface for my mill using the VTK backplot which is super fast compared to gremlin
06:35 AM XXCoder: grenlin is stock one>?
06:36 AM jthornton: yea gremlin was made back when axis was programmed
06:36 AM gloops: suppose it is looking a bit skullish https://ibb.co/0CYwqx3
06:36 AM XXCoder: that'd be one of ponental variants of humans
06:36 AM XXCoder: supposing evolution went differently
06:37 AM gloops: yeah its too missing link atm
06:37 AM gloops: this modelling lark is pretty theraputic though, its like the new knitting lol
06:38 AM XXCoder: lol
06:38 AM gloops: you come in, open it and pull a few dots here there, close it
06:38 AM Tom_L: is gremlin just the backplot part?
06:39 AM gloops: theres a skull photo as background image to work to
06:40 AM jthornton: Tom_L: yes in axis gommappppay and gscreen
06:43 AM Tom_L: have you tried yours under real conditions yet?
06:47 AM Tom_L: jthornton, are the repository keys for 2.7 & 2.8 listed anywhere on the linuxcnc site or just in your uspace doc here: http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian9-emc.html
06:48 AM jthornton: the key for linucnc is in the docs and the key for buildbot.linuxcnc is in the buildbot
06:48 AM jthornton: yea, that's why I'm making new one with a few changes in layout
06:49 AM jthornton: I realized that I wanted to see the DRO no matter what tab I had selected
06:49 AM Tom_L: yeah, good idea
06:50 AM jthornton: and my uspace doc has all the info in one place :)
06:50 AM Tom_L: i wasn't able to find it in the regular docs
06:51 AM Tom_L: i did get the mill up on 2.8 now though
06:51 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html
06:51 AM jthornton: cool
06:53 AM Tom_L: i'd been looking in the 'updating' page instead
06:56 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/code/building-linuxcnc.html
06:56 AM Tom_L: the http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org link there doesn't work for me
07:03 AM jthornton: looks like it's down
07:12 AM Ros44: Hello everyone, I just registered here. Is it suitable for me to ask some questions here?
07:12 AM Ros44: Regarding LinuxCNC, of course.
07:12 AM methods_: definitely
07:13 AM methods_: ask away it's a bit early usa time so might not be as many to answer right now
07:13 AM Ros44: Thank you methods_!
07:14 AM methods_: np it's irc so just be patient
07:14 AM Ros44: By the way it feels so strange to be back in IRC after decade or even more :)
07:14 AM methods_: and asking the question at different times might get you more answers based on who's on
07:14 AM jthornton: we talk about almost everything here
07:14 AM Ros44: :)
07:15 AM methods_: yeah you really gotta go OT to get reined in for that one
07:16 AM fragalot: christ it's windy today
07:18 AM * jthornton goes to let the chickens out
07:18 AM Ros44: A friend of mine has a Laser machine run by LinuxCNC. THe motherboard died so now we have a new one.
07:18 AM Ros44: I have downloaded http://www.linuxcnc.org/linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso and after installing it
07:18 AM XXCoder: Cry 'Havoc!,' and let slip the chickens of war!
07:19 AM Ros44: it seems that it doesn't recognise the hardware. Something is not quite well in that ISO cause the modules doesn't load properly in the kernel.
07:19 AM methods_: did you crc check the iso
07:19 AM Ros44: Yep!
07:20 AM methods_: well then it shouldn't be a problem with the actual iso
07:20 AM methods_: might be some driver issue with the new mobo
07:20 AM methods_: you runnning off of a serial port?
07:20 AM Ros44: I think so. My question is - Can I download and recompile new kernel with RTAI patch and then without touching the LinuxCNC installation run it as it is.
07:21 AM methods_: ahhh i do not know
07:21 AM methods_: but once jthornton gets back from molesting his chickens i bet he can tell you
07:21 AM XXCoder: chickens of war!
07:21 AM Ros44: :D
07:22 AM XXCoder: PROBABLY jt. https://i.imgur.com/O6btnFR.jpg
07:22 AM methods_: life as a chicken wrangler has given jthornton the prerequisite skills for a life of linuxcnc support
07:23 AM Ros44: Do you know if there is a new RTAI ISO of LinuxCNC than this one http://www.linuxcnc.org/linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso?
07:23 AM jthornton: XXCoder: that's the breed I have but they are not that big lol
07:24 AM XXCoder: think theres 2.8
07:24 AM Ros44: It is preempt_rt upsace i think. I couldn't find.
07:24 AM Ros44: It is preempt_rt upsace i think. I couldn't find RTAI
07:24 AM jthornton: Ros44: yes you can build kernels and I have all the instructions
07:24 AM XXCoder: unfortunately havent used linuxcnc for couple years. :( need shop to setup my machine and computers
07:25 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/index.html
07:25 AM jthornton: take your pick :)
07:25 AM XXCoder: maybe i should set a kickstarter lol
07:26 AM jthornton: or I'm not that small to ride a chicken lol
07:26 AM Ros44: jthornton, I have read your website for many hours. Is it possible that I take the http://www.linuxcnc.org/linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso that is downloaded from the official website, then rebuild the kernel and don't touch any of the settings of LinuxCNC?
07:26 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/chickens/11-29-17.jpg
07:27 AM Jymmm: jthornton: bearded hat wearing chickens?
07:27 AM Ros44: I mean if I replace the kernel will I be able to run LinuxCNC without any modifications?
07:27 AM Ros44: I mean if I replace the kernel will I be able to run the same LinuxCNC without any modifications?
07:27 AM jthornton: I've never tried that, but make a copy of your configuration and do what you need to do
07:28 AM Ros44: do you mean /boot/.config file copy?
07:28 AM XXCoder: yeah always backup
07:28 AM jthornton: kernels don't have any effect on lcnc except you must have rtai for rtai and rt preempt for uspace
07:29 AM jthornton: no, ~/linuxcnc/configs and any other files in ~/linuxcnc
07:29 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/chickens/10-8-17.jpg
07:30 AM XXCoder: just slacking around eh
07:30 AM jthornton: yea that was back in their younger days
07:30 AM Ros44: In one of my many attempts, after recompiling when I started LinuxCNC it told me that it requires specific kernel.
07:30 AM XXCoder: when did you start to have chickens? isnt it 2 years ago?
07:31 AM Ros44: I was wondering if there is a place in the configuration of LinuxCNC where I should point the exact kernel name?
07:31 AM jthornton: like I said if you have linuxcnc not uspace you need a rtai kernel
07:32 AM Ros44: yes, thank you. My point is if when compiling linuxcnc it writes down the specific kernel. Or I can change it without hassle.
07:33 AM gloops: there is 2.8 but 2.7 configs wont run on it
07:33 AM jthornton: if you build linuxcnc from scratch ie a RIP then it builds for the type of kernel you have installed unless you pass it a parameter to build for a different kernel
07:34 AM jthornton: ah yea they will as they get automqagicly updated
07:34 AM XXCoder: just keep a copy of orginial 2.7 config
07:35 AM Ros44: uff, I got very confused. Are there any instructions how this ISO was made: http://www.linuxcnc.org/linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso
07:35 AM jthornton: it makes a backup copy when it converts from 2.7 to 2.8 but yea always have a backup
07:35 AM jthornton: that will be RTAI
07:35 AM Ros44: yes, it is RTAI
07:36 AM jthornton: so only a RTAI kernel will work and none on my page are RTAI
07:36 AM Ros44: I know that :(
07:37 AM jthornton: so to see if I understand you changed motherboards and plugged the old hard drive in and it has problems?
07:37 AM Ros44: exactly! And my goal is to keep everyting as it is, but just recompile new rtai kernel.
07:38 AM x2s: uh, btw, Debian Buster will have -rt-Kernels. I'm using it for linuxcnc already
07:38 AM jthornton: debian 9 has rt preempt kernels
07:39 AM Ros44: to make things worse this machine has some custome addons written especially for rtai
07:40 AM jthornton: ouch
07:41 AM jthornton: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/h7qBp4RcSt/
07:41 AM jthornton: that may help you build a rtai kernel, they are my notes from building rtai for linux mint 17.3
07:43 AM x2s: well, I'd take rtai over preempt_rt, but rtai looks not active anymore :(
07:45 AM Ros44: thank you jthornton, this might help me a lot! Thank you! I will report back.
07:45 AM jthornton: ok good luck
07:53 AM XXCoder: lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgHCkgHm30o
07:53 AM XXCoder: made from addative method in order to use it for subtractive method
08:01 AM fragalot: the difference between the 2 has to be more than just weight
08:02 AM gloops: Ros44 i did that last weekend, if you saved the old configs, just re-install 2.7 from image, run stepconfig for a sample config, delete the files and pase your old config into it
08:02 AM gloops: rename the hal references in the INI - away you go
08:05 AM Ros44: gloops, thank you, can you tell me if you know how to download the latest RTAI 2.7.x image?
08:06 AM Ros44: by the way guys... today http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ stopped working.
08:06 AM Ros44: the A record is completely missing in the DNS zone
08:07 AM gloops: i mean the linuxcnc iso - wheezy is RTAI
08:07 AM Ros44: I am using it, but there is something wrong in it with the modules and they do not insert propery in the kernel
08:08 AM gloops: http://www.linuxcnc.org/linuxcnc-2.7-wheezy.iso
08:08 AM Ros44: exactly this one I am using!
08:08 AM gloops: a new install on blank drive?
08:09 AM Ros44: yes, and after the installation the video adapter and the lan adapter of the new motherboard do not work
08:09 AM gloops: i had to run fsck it does it sometimes on a new install
08:10 AM Ros44: hm... didn't think of that
09:06 AM pcw_home: Ros44 if the new motherboard uses recent CPU/Chipset, Wheezys RTAI kernel is likely too old to work
09:08 AM Ros44: I just figured out what the problem is. The motherboard has an oldchipset and CPU. The issue is that there is a bug in the kernel modules that stop the modules from being loaded.
09:08 AM Ros44: My research brought me here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495524
09:08 AM Ros44: So now I have a very clear goal. Use the same 2.7 ISO installation and update the kernel with the latest possible RTAI.
09:09 AM Ros44: If anyone has a clue how to do this I would be very grateful. I am stuck to RTAI because of some extra addons that use the RTAI I/O lib.
09:11 AM Ros44: jthornton, your instructions helped me figure this out. Cause with your instructions I have installed the same old RTAI kernel that seems to have that bug.
09:18 AM pcw_home: Thats odd, that bug is from 2009 but wheezy is much later
09:19 AM Ros44: pcw_home, you are right. The thing is that any distro I have tried once I do this
09:19 AM miss0r: fragalot: You around ? https://imgur.com/nIMYBIN
09:20 AM Ros44: apt-get -y install linux-image-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae rtai-modules-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae
09:20 AM Ros44: and this apt-get -y install linux-headers-3.4-9-rtai-686-pae
09:20 AM fragalot: miss0r: I am
09:20 AM miss0r: i made it ;)
09:20 AM Ros44: my video adapter is no longer recognised and my lan adapter stops working
09:20 AM pcw_home: what CPU/ Motherboard?
09:21 AM fragalot: miss0r: lookin' good :D
09:21 AM miss0r: I'm as surprised as you are :D
09:21 AM fragalot: I like the adjustment slots
09:21 AM fragalot: :D
09:21 AM miss0r: don't we all :D
09:21 AM fragalot: almost looks intentional
09:22 AM miss0r: but it is
09:22 AM miss0r: On the second one atleast :D
09:22 AM fragalot: :D
09:22 AM fragalot: anodiser did a pretty neat job too
09:22 AM miss0r: yeah
09:22 AM miss0r: almost made my halfassed production look pro :D
09:23 AM miss0r: it will set them back little over 7k eur
09:24 AM fragalot: that'd get you a single lens
09:24 AM fragalot: so not bad
09:24 AM miss0r: I think that is pretty good, considering how fast they got it..
09:24 AM miss0r: and also taking into account that everything is custom design by myself :D
09:24 AM fragalot: and given that you're a professional videographer yourself, you know exactly what they'd want :P
09:25 AM miss0r: Indeed :D
09:25 AM miss0r: lol. I spoke to the guy this morning. The two cameras that are going on these are ~67k eur each
09:25 AM fragalot: :)
09:25 AM miss0r: so... I should've charged more :D
09:26 AM fragalot: I've made it a rule not to spend more than 10% of my camera's value on a tripod head
09:26 AM miss0r: so, this would be slightly overpriced, I see :)
09:26 AM fragalot: also, what are you doing between the 20th of july until the 4th of august?
09:26 AM Ros44: pcw_home, this is the mobo https://www.advantech.com/products/1-2jkltu/pcm-3365/mod_b3576b63-5d3f-4ff9-936a-a7daa3d8f362
09:27 AM * miss0r is checking the calender
09:28 AM miss0r: I'm vacationing week 29 & 30
09:28 AM miss0r: which is from july 15, to jul 28.
09:29 AM miss0r: so WHATEVER THE HELL I... The kids and wife wants
09:29 AM fragalot: hehe
09:29 AM fragalot: I could also move mine to week 31/32
09:30 AM miss0r: Sure. lets take this talk later in the day. I just got into the shop to do a repair on a chair, which my 3year old managed to break a leg off of.
09:30 AM miss0r: apparently it could not handle being on the side while he sat on one of the legs. Cheap swedish crap
09:30 AM fragalot: should 've gotten one of those chairs that has a lifetime warranty on it
09:31 AM fragalot: shame the shop that gave said warranty closed for retirement ~40yrs ago
09:31 AM miss0r: and now it is glued up.. so I better get back inside and stop the family from murdering eachother.
09:31 AM miss0r: lol
09:31 AM fragalot: ttyl :)
09:32 AM pcw_home: Yeah, N2930 is probably too new for Linux 3.4.9 or at the minimum needs the "intel_idle.max_cstate=1" grub setting
09:34 AM SpeedEvil: miss0r: good show. 3yo doing woodworking already.
10:00 AM flyback: intel_pmu_bmcc=1
10:10 AM fragalot: miss0r: can you guess why brexit isn't going anywhere? I think the gears represent politicians. http://thelondoncoincompany.com/WebRoot/Store10/Shops/4d237887-b78a-4f19-8c94-ebc46654c578/54C7/D7AC/5C91/D301/1177/0A48/3523/9519/2015_Shoulders_of_Giants_BU_Two_Pound_Coin_4.jpg
10:11 AM SpeedEvil: Have you actually counted them and found out that there are the wrong number?
10:14 AM fragalot: SpeedEvil: have you?
10:14 AM fragalot: the 1997 has the correct #
10:22 AM Tom_L: what's the design supposed to be anyway? looks like stonehenge fell over
10:22 AM fragalot: lol
10:23 AM Tom_L: because of the political gears?
10:42 AM SpeedEvil: fragalot: i mean because half of the possible number of gears will run freely, half will interlock.
10:43 AM fragalot: SpeedEvil: meaning none of them turn
10:43 AM SpeedEvil: Err - no. It is possible to have a circular arrangement of gears that run freely.
10:43 AM fragalot: it is - but not that one
10:43 AM SpeedEvil: k
10:44 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: it is. they just have not to mesh somewhere ;)
10:44 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: or be an even number
10:44 AM Loetmichel: or be the right count ;)
10:44 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: yes
10:44 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: Or be an even number
10:44 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: WITH the right tooth count :P
10:44 AM SpeedEvil: fragalot: you can't have the wrong tooth count.
10:44 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: tooth count should be irrelevant
10:45 AM Loetmichel: if you have no "2 stage" gears in there
10:45 AM fragalot: k
10:45 AM Loetmichel: if every gear meshes only with its two neighbors and nothing else it will work regardless of size
10:46 AM Loetmichel: they will just turn with different rpm when you turn ONE of the circle
10:49 AM Loetmichel: btw: just tought abut a printer with an addition milling head that does lay a layer of plastic, then mills the edges to "perfect size" then lays the next layer
10:49 AM Loetmichel: is that done already?
10:49 AM Loetmichel: i mean: has someone done something like that?
10:50 AM fragalot: in metal, yes
10:50 AM fragalot: never heard of it done for plastics
10:50 AM Loetmichel: i meant those "plastic string" layers
10:50 AM Loetmichel: not the metal sintering ones
10:51 AM fragalot: FDM
10:51 AM fragalot: and not that I know of
11:09 AM R2E4: anyone around?
11:10 AM Ros44: Yes :)
11:11 AM Ros44: flyback, pcw_home, thank you! I will dig into that!
11:12 AM R2E4: I am trying to denergize a relay when I get M5 in gcode. Drawing a blank. Can I get a hint?
11:13 AM R2E4: basically when motion.spindle-on goes false I want to turn off a motion-digital-output.
11:13 AM R2E4: Which is connected with a 7i77 output which turns of my 45 drill spindle motor
11:14 AM cpresser: why do you want to connect it to motion-digital-output?
11:14 AM R2E4: My three 9kw spindles work with m5 via 7i77 trough a select-spindle relay.
11:15 AM cpresser: just wire it up to the IO of the 7i77 in HAL. like "net motion.spindle-on 7i77.output0"
11:16 AM R2E4: that wont work cause it will run the same time as my 9kw spindles.
11:17 AM jthornton: R2E4: did you know in master you control 9 spindles?
11:17 AM R2E4: OH...9 spindles
11:17 AM jthornton: yup
11:17 AM R2E4: LEt me look that up
11:18 AM R2E4: ITs in the devel docs?
11:18 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/m-code.html#mcode:m3-m4-m5
11:18 AM R2E4: lol
11:19 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini-config.html#_traj_section
11:19 AM R2E4: I see. I dont want to change post gcode, would like to do it in HAL.
11:20 AM jthornton: ah ok
11:20 AM jthornton: you can connect more than one thing to a signal
11:21 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/hal/basic-hal.html#_net
11:21 AM R2E4: When one of the three spindles is running I dont want the drill motor running.
11:21 AM R2E4: sounds like a job for CL, but rather try and find a way in HAL.
11:22 AM jthornton: how do you control the spindles now?
11:23 AM R2E4: The three spindlws are controlled via 7i77, M5 and I select a relay determining which spindle in remap.
11:23 AM R2E4: I get the drill spindle running in remap depending tool I use.
11:23 AM R2E4: but oit wont shut off with M5.
11:24 AM jthornton: might use or2 to turn it off
11:24 AM Elmo40: afternoon peeps
11:24 AM Elmo40: daylight savings kicked in...
11:25 AM Elmo40: any recent 3D printing tutorials or videos around? Everything I see are from 10 years ago.
11:26 AM jthornton: R2E4: or the logic component
11:26 AM R2E4: jthornton: how would I use the or logic for this?
11:26 AM jthornton: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/basic-hal.html#_logic_components
11:26 AM jthornton: as three or's
11:27 AM jthornton: hmm I thought there was an example of logic in there
11:28 AM R2E4: This would be a good example to put in the docs......lol
11:28 AM jthornton: lol yea
11:31 AM R2E4: I'm not using spindle-on or M3 for the drill spindle, so I need to intercept M5. I cant logically picture how you would do that with or.
11:32 AM jthornton: yea I'm not sure what you have so just tossing out ideas
11:32 AM R2E4: Any iodea how to get a relay to momentary fire on an M5?
11:33 AM jthornton: maybe a oneshot
11:35 AM R2E4: down transition on a relay as input to a oneshot. Thats what I need if that is [possible.
11:41 AM R2E4: oneshot falling edge.
11:41 AM jthornton: in hal use not to reverse logic states
11:42 AM jthornton: be back later
12:24 PM Ros44: Just to ask again is there information how the RTAI kernel in the official 2.7 LinuxCNC ISO was build? I want to rebuild it again but with a newer version and eventualy use the same instructions.
12:38 PM pink_vampire: hi
12:38 PM fragalot: hi
12:40 PM Ros44: hello pink_vampire, fragalot
12:41 PM fragalot: sorry Ros44 I have absolutely no idea.
12:41 PM pink_vampire: more wiring stuff today
12:47 PM jthornton: Ros44: no official documentation on how the kernel was built
12:48 PM Ros44: thanks
12:48 PM Tom_L: when building a kernel there are lots of options but nobody has really discussed them here
12:50 PM SpeedEvil: you do knowabout the kernel config file thatmay be readable from /proc/config.gz ?
12:51 PM Ros44: I didn't know about that. Only a /boot/.config-xxxx file.
12:51 PM Ros44: But still I am browsing for some guide lines on how to do compile it
12:52 PM Ros44: It seems that the RTAI kernel idea is dropping out from LinuxCNC, am I correct?
12:52 PM pcw_home: Alec Ari would probably be the go-to guy if you want to build a up-to-date LinuxCNC compatible kernel
12:52 PM SpeedEvil: (it may have moved, I last looked at it in an old version
12:53 PM Ros44: Does Alec Ari show up here?
12:53 PM Tom_L: not that i'm aware of
12:54 PM Elmo40: LoL
12:54 PM R2E4: I am trying to get a motion-digital-output to turn off when it receives an M5.
12:54 PM R2E4: I cant seem to figure it out.
12:54 PM Tom_L: post a code snip of what you have
12:56 PM Tom_L: remap the M5 and turn it off there
12:57 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/remap/remap.html
12:57 PM R2E4: I am trying to stop a biesse 43 spindle motor with M5. 3 9kw spindles are working with 7i77
12:58 PM R2E4: when I remap, instead of selecting one of the three spindles I select the 43 spindle motor, so I need m5 to stop it. it is being turned on with M66 P54
12:59 PM R2E4: oh....
01:00 PM Tom_L: i've only done remap once and it was on M6 and it's been a day or so ago...
01:02 PM Tom_L: or like jt said, apparently 2.8 supports multiple spindles now
01:02 PM Tom_L: haven't tried that myself
01:03 PM R2E4: What version 2.8 was multiple spindles added?
01:03 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/m-code.html#_m4_1
01:03 PM Tom_L: i bet andy would know
01:04 PM Tom_L: i think he worked on it but i'm not sure
01:04 PM R2E4: I am using 2.8 pre 1-2833
01:04 PM JT-Shop2: R2E4: there is no 2.8 actually it's just master
01:05 PM Tom_L: just update master and it should be there
01:05 PM R2E4: I am on my productions machine. Kinda leary about updating, dont want anything to break.
01:06 PM JT-Shop2: R2E4: the links to the docs earlier show how to use and have multiple spindles
01:06 PM Tom_L: backups are your friend.
01:06 PM JT-Shop2: break out a hard drive and install on that and you can just boot to the hard drive you want
01:06 PM JT-Shop2: while testing stuff
01:06 PM Tom_L: i've learned about that :)
01:08 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, do you know what the new motion. pins are for multi spindle?
01:09 PM JT-Shop2: not off the top of my head but if you add some spindles you can look in show hal configuration to see the pin names
01:09 PM Tom_L: ahh. motion.spindle.X.command...
01:09 PM JT-Shop2: there you go
01:09 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
01:10 PM Tom_L: R2E4 ^^ for individual spindle status etc
01:11 PM R2E4: If I have input with a motion digital-output tied to it, can I connect another input pulse to turn it off? example, I have the relay energized by motion-digital-output, if I connect an input and I pulse the input, would it torn off the output?
01:12 PM Tom_L: it would likely be thru an or2 comp
01:12 PM Tom_L: in order to have 2 inputs tied to an output
01:13 PM R2E4: ah yeah, the diital output is an input to the 7i77 output.
01:29 PM miss0r: fragalot: Alright, I'm back for a short while
01:37 PM fragalot: miss0r: Welcome.
01:37 PM miss0r: Thank you
01:37 PM miss0r: almost gone again :D
01:38 PM miss0r: So, you are thinking of visiting Denmark. There are a few things you need to know
01:38 PM fragalot: --> pm ?
01:38 PM miss0r: Indeed
02:06 PM Tom_L: guess we'll see if the little sherline spindle can cut a 3/4 16 thread soon
02:11 PM gregcnc: anyone experienced with Atlas Copco SF compressors? Would it be difficult to change from 460V to 230?
02:18 PM JT-Shop: most 3 phase motors can be changed from 480 to 240...
02:19 PM gregcnc: agreed, I'm just wondering what/if anything else needs to be done inside these. Manuals mention overload relays and fuse sizes
02:23 PM JT-Shop: that just depends on the control voltage
02:23 PM JT-Shop: yea the overloads and fuses have to be changed out for larger amps
02:24 PM JT-Shop: if they have a 480 to 120v control transformer that would have to be changed, or if they use line voltage the contactor coil would have to be changed
02:25 PM gregcnc: I'll just have to go look at it and see what's inside
02:26 PM JT-Shop: a compressor your thinking of buying?
02:26 PM gregcnc: yes
02:27 PM JT-Shop: you have 240v 3phase in your shop?
02:27 PM gregcnc: converted, yes
02:28 PM JT-Shop: RPC?
02:28 PM gregcnc: PP
02:28 PM JT-Shop: ??
02:28 PM gregcnc: Phase Perfect
02:28 PM roycroft: keep in mind that compressor motors draw a whole lot of current when starting up
02:29 PM JT-Shop: a rotary phase converter?
02:29 PM roycroft: depending on the type of phase converter you have, you may need to overspec it by a factor or 2 or 3 in order to start up the compressor motor
02:29 PM gregcnc: digital
02:29 PM roycroft: so if it's a 5hp compressor you may need a 15hp phase converter
02:29 PM gregcnc: all that is worked out
02:29 PM JT-Shop: you better check with PP if it will start a compressor
02:29 PM JT-Shop: ah ok nevermind :)
02:31 PM gregcnc: I'm temped just to run it as is, from the 400V transformer that runs my lathe, but I just don't think it's enough voltage for 60Hz.
03:29 PM gloops: i need one of these, with a flushing pan built in https://i.pinimg.com/564x/8d/9f/f7/8d9ff768a545de0858f32f5a4fae11f3.jpg
05:22 PM Deejay: gn8
05:42 PM Lcvette: need input guys, for umbrella type tool changers, does anyone know of pcoket counts besides the following? 8, 10, 12, 16, 18, 21, 24?
05:42 PM JT-Shop2: XXCoder: ^^
05:43 PM XXCoder: yo
05:43 PM XXCoder: whats up
05:45 PM JT-Shop2: Lcvette: is looking for some info on tool changers, figured you might know
05:45 PM Lcvette: XXCoder: need input guys, for umbrella type tool changers, does anyone know of pcoket counts besides the following? 8, 10, 12, 16, 18, 21, 24?
05:45 PM XXCoder: ahh
05:45 PM XXCoder: corsel type?
05:46 PM XXCoder: im looking up fadal 88 now think that one has bit unusual
05:48 PM Lcvette: corsel?
05:48 PM XXCoder: mispelled word but yeah confirmed it is
05:48 PM Lcvette: xarousel
05:48 PM Lcvette: yes
05:48 PM Lcvette: carousel
05:49 PM XXCoder: so far from what I recall old fadal may be only one out of those but might be wrong
05:49 PM Tom_L: much more and it would get impractical
05:49 PM XXCoder: everything else falls within those
05:49 PM Tom_L: calculate the distance between holders and the diameter it would have to be
05:50 PM XXCoder: others with different amounts tend to be either chain type or grid storage system
05:50 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: yeah likely
05:50 PM Lcvette: im not needing to make an actual atc, iots for graphical representation for the interface
05:50 PM Tom_L: i know
05:50 PM Lcvette: the ones i lidted i just finished making
05:50 PM Tom_L: you can't make a variable and let the user input?
05:51 PM Tom_L: then build to size..
05:51 PM Tom_L: it would be more work on your part :)
05:51 PM XXCoder: ah fadal 88 has 21 tools
05:52 PM Lcvette: the sizes change so drastically
05:52 PM Lcvette: 8 tool to 24 tool
05:52 PM Tom_L: exactly
05:52 PM Lcvette: the representation has to fit in the same size spot in the gui
05:52 PM Lcvette: so everything destorts
05:52 PM Tom_L: take your pockets and size them by the number that will practically fit in a circle
05:53 PM Tom_L: make the pockets smaller representation
05:53 PM Tom_L: or can you?
05:53 PM Lcvette: you feel like coding it?
05:53 PM Tom_L: no but i can sit here and offer ideas
05:53 PM Tom_L: :)
05:53 PM Lcvette: lol
05:53 PM Tom_L: i said it would be alot of work...
05:53 PM Lcvette: yeah too much work
05:54 PM Lcvette: the numbers will be arrayed already
05:54 PM Tom_L: so just offer prebuilt ones with fixed count?
05:54 PM Lcvette: no need to over complicate it
05:54 PM Lcvette: for now
05:55 PM Lcvette: its not like there are that many options
05:55 PM Tom_L: what language?
05:55 PM Tom_L: no not really
05:55 PM Lcvette: engrish
05:55 PM Lcvette: lol
05:55 PM Tom_L: sa
05:55 PM Tom_L: (intelligent donkey)
05:55 PM Lcvette: hahahah
05:56 PM Lcvette: the graphical code is done in qml
05:56 PM Lcvette: in qtcreator
05:56 PM Lcvette: for the animation
05:56 PM Tom_L: none of which i know at all
05:56 PM Lcvette: did you see the video?
05:56 PM Tom_L: i did, impressive
05:57 PM Lcvette: https://youtu.be/ZE2_2_riYyw
05:57 PM Lcvette: ah
05:57 PM XXCoder: asl?
05:57 PM Lcvette: well there it is again for anyone that may not have
05:57 PM Lcvette: that is Turboss's handy work
05:57 PM Lcvette: QQuick
05:58 PM Lcvette: qml
05:58 PM Lcvette: qtquick
05:59 PM XXCoder: interesting
05:59 PM Tom_L: i see somebody got them going clockwise now
05:59 PM Tom_L: err did they.. is that right? i can't remember
06:00 PM Tom_L: i haven't seen one in a day or so
06:00 PM Tom_L: Lcvette i was questioning if the tool pockets were numbered clockwise or counterclockwise earlier and i can'
06:01 PM Lcvette: only have mine for reference and looking at the top of the platter they are number 1-12 counter clockwise
06:01 PM Tom_L: t recall now..
06:01 PM Tom_L: they're likely all the same
06:01 PM Lcvette: oddly enough it didn't dawn on me they might be different
06:01 PM Lcvette: lol
06:02 PM Tom_L: so are you gonna represent a belt with a swingarm next???
06:02 PM Lcvette: so for those with an atc, please chome in with the numbering direction of your carousel pockets as seen from the top
06:02 PM Lcvette: no
06:02 PM Lcvette: this is really just to have representation of whats in the carousel
06:03 PM Tom_L: haas counts up clockwise
06:03 PM Tom_L: https://www.haascnc.com/video/service/hxsqciapvgc.html
06:04 PM Lcvette: good lookin out
06:04 PM Lcvette: will need to make a representation in the code to flip
06:04 PM Lcvette: shouldn't be too hard as turboss is using a repeater
06:04 PM Tom_L: okuma appear to be swing arm
06:04 PM Lcvette: should just be a line of code or two
06:07 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1ZcKoUSlqI
06:07 PM Tom_L: turns too fast for me to tell
06:09 PM Tom_L: i don't think it's a deal killer either way
06:29 PM Lcvette: i always loved that little tool changer
06:29 PM Lcvette: whatever happened to the guy making them? they give up?
06:29 PM Tom_L: no idea
06:30 PM Tom_L: surprised the holders don't fly outta it
06:31 PM XXCoder: that reminds me of robodrill tool changer.
06:31 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaAxC75zBOU
06:31 PM XXCoder: does it count as carosel? if so, its 14 lol
06:33 PM Lcvette: guess soo
06:33 PM Lcvette: typer?
06:35 PM Lcvette: yeah
06:38 PM XXCoder: dunno robo is bit strange
06:38 PM XXCoder: they made it to get around patents im sure
06:39 PM Lcvette: lcvette is making a 14 tool carousel
06:40 PM Tom_L: from scratch?
06:41 PM Lcvette: no, rendering now
06:41 PM Lcvette: lol
06:41 PM Lcvette: I do graphics as easy as I can
06:45 PM * Lcvette uploaded an image: image.png (78KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/yYJLrPZJcJORgFjjigsbnDLb >
06:46 PM Lcvette: thats now 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 21, 24
06:46 PM jthornton: your on a roll now
06:47 PM XXCoder: sigh kinda bad news
06:47 PM XXCoder: https://www.haascnc.com/machines/vertical-mills/compact-mills.html
06:49 PM jthornton: what's bad news?
06:50 PM XXCoder: 20 tools
06:50 PM Lcvette: ok
06:50 PM Elmo40: everyone knows you need 60
06:50 PM XXCoder: 24 is largest that I know of, and it was kinda in ricious range
06:51 PM XXCoder: larger than that tend to be chain or other kinds
06:52 PM Elmo40: chain for sure. you dont want a 60 tool carosel... that'll be 30' diameter ;-)
06:53 PM XXCoder: heh machine i sometimes run has 250 tools
06:53 PM Tom_L: most of those are gonna be swing arm
06:53 PM Lcvette: rendering 20 tool
06:53 PM XXCoder: think 60 is silly? 250 would be riciously large
06:53 PM Elmo40: XXCoder, those HAAS are only a $60k machine. What more do you expect?
06:53 PM Tom_L: my bud had a 119 tool one
06:53 PM XXCoder: crazy
06:54 PM Tom_L: cage on the back of the machine
06:54 PM XXCoder: Elmo40: those office mills is great.. as long as you dont use it for production
06:54 PM gregcnc: http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/Automatic_Tool_Changer_Plans.htm
06:54 PM Elmo40: problem with that many is unless the tool sits in a shield, they get covered in smoke/coolant/chips and then the taper gets all chewy.
06:54 PM Elmo40: XXCoder, indeed. small and light duty machines.
06:54 PM Elmo40: wont be cutting tool steel with them!
06:55 PM XXCoder: didnt run harder metals. just alum. 1000+ parts
06:55 PM XXCoder: broke both machines spindle and toolchangers
06:56 PM gregcnc: insert haas joke here?
06:56 PM XXCoder: nah haas is just ok. its that specific machine
06:56 PM XXCoder: hurco now...
06:57 PM Elmo40: well... i just built my machine. turned into $120k !!
06:57 PM gregcnc: when will it be delivered?
06:57 PM Tom_L: practically though how many of these we're pointing out will soon to be conversion candidates?
06:58 PM Elmo40: next tuesday. they claim everything is in stock
06:58 PM gregcnc: very few
06:58 PM Elmo40: convert a HAAS to linuxcnc?
06:58 PM XXCoder: old fadal couuld be done you'd have to copmpletely replace ccomputer on it anyway
06:58 PM Elmo40: i'd rather convert my 3D Printer to linuxcnc.
06:58 PM gregcnc: There are a few older brothers out there running on Linuxcnc
06:59 PM XXCoder: if I recall right fadal 88 has around 24k memory for programs
06:59 PM gregcnc: I'ts the older dumber than rocks controls that are worth doing, otherwise just fix it
06:59 PM weenerdog: howdy
07:00 PM XXCoder: Elmo40: need few gcodes to do that. pink did it different way though, she just had seperate system managing it lol
07:01 PM XXCoder: stripped temperate gcodes and manual control it
07:04 PM Lcvette: ok any others?
07:05 PM Lcvette: have 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 21, 24
07:06 PM gregcnc: https://www.instagram.com/p/BlD4DuFnuVj/
07:07 PM XXCoder: lol
07:07 PM gregcnc: action https://www.instagram.com/p/BaND3mtHrLh/
07:08 PM XXCoder: think that would be "door opener" type like a61 (but with carosel not grid storage)
07:10 PM Lcvette: ok imm gonna leave it where it is then
07:10 PM Lcvette: think that should cover most
07:10 PM Lcvette: if we need another can always add
07:11 PM XXCoder: yeah most is good enough
07:11 PM jthornton: hmm no rain tomorrow, if I can get the new battery in the old hoe I can offload the logs from my trailer then rain rain rain
07:12 PM Tom_L: doesn't look too good for you
07:13 PM Tom_L: https://www.wunderground.com/maps/radar/current/sln
07:13 PM jthornton: no, and I'm really tired of the rain
07:14 PM jthornton: had a cat in bad shape show up last week... looked pretty bad it took over my feral cat's hooch so I gave it food and water and it finally died last night
07:14 PM jthornton: at least it had a cozy place for a few days
07:15 PM jthornton: now the feral cat I made friends with is not eating... dunno
07:16 PM XXCoder: may have spread sickness :(
07:16 PM Lcvette: oh no
07:17 PM jthornton: I don't think so they were never in the same place and the feral cat sorta stopped eating a few days ago
07:19 PM jthornton: it took me a month or better before I could pet it, now I can carry it around with me like a baby
07:20 PM XXCoder: wonder if you could get deworm and see if help
07:21 PM XXCoder: lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL0LZFcNaow'
07:21 PM XXCoder: minus '
07:21 PM jthornton: I'm thinking of trying to take it to the vet but that will be a rodeo for sure
07:23 PM XXCoder: yeah
07:23 PM XXCoder: vets is so expensive. i know why just sucks.
07:24 PM XXCoder: also why i wont have pets
07:24 PM jthornton: at least with our indoor cat it can be alone for some time but when we had a dog we had to take him to a kennel when we left
07:42 PM Elmo40: XXCoder, why did pink split it up? can't linuxcnc control the whole thing?
07:42 PM XXCoder: no linuxcnc has no support for some gcodes specific to 3d printing
07:43 PM XXCoder: so you'd have to add it in somehow
07:44 PM Wolf__: so much odd stuff that only applies to 3d printing/FDM that IMO better off using firmware meant for it
07:44 PM XXCoder: reprap.
07:44 PM Elmo40: interesting. the idea has been around for over a decade. why hasn't anything been added in? No extra libraries to install?
07:45 PM Wolf__: smoothie board + smoothie firmware IMO
07:45 PM Elmo40: ugh. such junk.
07:45 PM XXCoder: most 3d printers has its own board usually and frmware.
07:45 PM XXCoder: in order to get linuxcnc to work on it you'd either have tio oort linuxcnc to one of those boards or strip it out and make it more proper linuxcnc machine
07:46 PM Elmo40: yeah. i have a few of them. my next build was going to use a DUE + RADDS Shield.
07:46 PM XXCoder: *to port
07:46 PM Elmo40: but I have seen a few linuxcnc builds and wondered why i didn't go that route.
07:47 PM Wolf__: I have a ramps machine, and smoothie board, also have a smoothie board running a laser engraver
07:47 PM Wolf__: smoothie is impressive vs arduino based 3d print junk
07:48 PM Wolf__: anything else cnc then I would look in to linux cnc =D
07:50 PM Elmo40: what i really don't like are the slicers.
07:50 PM Elmo40: they produce such horrid g-code
07:50 PM Elmo40: but, that is for another channel, i guess...
07:50 PM XXCoder: no g2 g3 support
07:51 PM XXCoder: or rather, "support" by converting em into g1s
07:51 PM XXCoder: boards internally convert em to g1s also
07:51 PM Tom_L: is smoothie arm based?
07:52 PM Wolf__: I dont pay attention to what slicer kicks out, hit the slice button followed by start print… when I’m doing cnc mill work cam thats a different story
07:52 PM XXCoder: one guy is making it actually work properly, and making noises about being first one. hey hellp linuxcnc? lol
07:52 PM XXCoder: *hello
07:53 PM Elmo40: they don't even follow convention in terms of g-code.
07:53 PM Elmo40: M0 Unconditional stop
07:53 PM Elmo40: M1 Same as M0
07:53 PM Elmo40: this is their definition
07:53 PM Wolf__: Tom_L: yeah its arm based, and the firmware pulls live config from INI file on local storage (micro SD) so you can live config it vs reloading sketches like the arduino based stuff
07:54 PM XXCoder: Elmo40: m0 and m1 didnt work on one i tried on lol
07:54 PM XXCoder: they use entirely different gcode to act as m0
07:54 PM XXCoder: kinda wtf
07:54 PM Wolf__: ^ and thats why I dont bother to look at the 3d print code lol
07:54 PM Elmo40: my point exactly
07:55 PM XXCoder: indeed
07:55 PM Wolf__: long as the part spits out, good
07:55 PM Elmo40: but then there is no optimization happenin
07:56 PM XXCoder: sometimes making parts fit is bit complex due to "polyholes" guess where that comes from lol
07:57 PM Elmo40: i'd like to build a machine with Mesa boards or go all out and use a Gecko drive.
07:57 PM Elmo40: hence why i'd like to use linuxcnc
07:57 PM Wolf__: poor optimization is likely right for open sauce stuff, probably different story in commercial $100k closed source FDM machines tho
07:57 PM XXCoder: nice
07:58 PM Wolf__: sounds like a neat idea, but then comes the Why question…
07:59 PM Elmo40: i've seen how a $30k sla machine... there isn't any optimization happening. they simply slice in smaller increments to achieve the details they want. no proper 'tool path' editing at all.
07:59 PM Wolf__: building a 3d printer measured in meters?
07:59 PM Elmo40: i do want one 1m cube.
07:59 PM Elmo40: will use 4040 extrusions
07:59 PM Wolf__: fdm plastic?
07:59 PM Elmo40: and nema23 motors.
08:00 PM Elmo40: not entirely an FDM machine... laser and small high speed spindle, too.
08:00 PM Elmo40: the gantry will be full ;-)
08:00 PM Wolf__: so compromise based machine =P
08:00 PM Elmo40: i might use nema34 for X&Y but the Z can surely be twin nema23.
08:01 PM Elmo40: bein a multi-in-one machine, i want to use a common controller for them all.
08:01 PM Wolf__: I dont like the idea of multi process machines
08:02 PM XXCoder: fsm tend to need light and fast
08:02 PM XXCoder: mill tend to want heavy and slowish with strong force
08:02 PM XXCoder: 3d printing and laser combo works but milling eh
08:03 PM Wolf__: except diode lasers kinda suck
08:03 PM Wolf__: unless you are doing a fiber laser head…
08:03 PM Elmo40: it wont really be a 'mill'. not for steel. we fab a bunch of AL extrusion and currently outsource complex shapes needed in them. We want the FDM for 'fun' ;-) The laser and spindle will be for 'work'.
08:04 PM Wolf__: but that makes more sense to galvo
08:05 PM Wolf__: what sort of complex shapes in Al
08:06 PM XXCoder: nonecludian ;)
08:07 PM Wolf__: cnc router wouldnt be at the top of my list for aluminum production work
08:08 PM Elmo40: not a router. something that we can control the RPM and also has an ER collet in it.
08:09 PM Elmo40: there are some sections that need to be milled to a dimension. hex holes cut. the odd rectangle... stuff a drill has difficulties with ;-)
08:10 PM Elmo40: now this is the overkill I want to do! :-D
08:10 PM Elmo40: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aftagyC00Wg
08:12 PM Elmo40: Wolf__, my main issues with these cheap boards are the missed steps
08:12 PM Elmo40: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1zQWISpO5o
08:12 PM Wolf__: because of the polou style stepper drive?
08:12 PM Elmo40: this guy is whipping (not printing, but testing the speed capability) If I tried that with a 4988 or 2208 driver, it would skip on the second line!
08:15 PM andypugh: The second one doesnt need to increase temperature, but probably does need to increase the heater power.
08:15 PM Wolf__: iirc my one smoothie (Azteeg X5) is running TMC2660 based drivers
08:15 PM Wolf__: and you can always just feed the step/dir in to a external stepper drive
08:19 PM Wolf__: hell, you could go fully nuts and build a 3d printer using clear path servos
08:22 PM Elmo40: Wolf__, hellz ya!
08:22 PM Elmo40: you have any for sale... for cheap? ;-)
08:22 PM Wolf__: no lol
08:23 PM Wolf__: I almost did a cnc plasma table with nema 34 servo motors but I think that would be a bit overkill
08:25 PM Wolf__: my version 2 cnc plasma table will get clear paths on it
08:29 PM Wolf__: if I bother with a v2...
08:35 PM tiwake: what is a good/cheap oscilliscope to get?
08:35 PM Wolf__: ds1054 ?
08:36 PM tiwake: ah right, rigol
08:36 PM Wolf__: if usa, from Tequipment + join eevblog and post/contribute to threads and get the 5% discount code
08:37 PM tiwake: my birthday is the end of the month, was thinking of special things to get for myself
08:38 PM tiwake: DS1054Z
08:38 PM tiwake: $375
08:38 PM tiwake: can't that be hacked to work up to 100mhz?
08:39 PM Wolf__: yeah
08:39 PM Tom_L: those rigol scopes?
08:39 PM Tom_L: i think so
08:39 PM Tom_L: 50 -> 100
08:39 PM Tom_L: i'd likely get the 100 to start with
08:40 PM tiwake: too expensive
08:40 PM tiwake: realistically I should pay off other crap first
08:40 PM Tom_L: what's it for?
08:40 PM tiwake: and I don't really need one till I get around to building a controller for the hardinge CHNC
08:40 PM Wolf__: http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/ =D
08:41 PM Tom_L: you need more than 5v logic?
08:41 PM tiwake: iunno
08:41 PM Tom_L: i'd get a saleae LA first
08:41 PM Tom_L: i've got an old one
08:41 PM tiwake: there have been times when such a thing would have been very useful though
08:41 PM Tom_L: never use my 100 mhz scope much
08:41 PM tiwake: linky?
08:41 PM tiwake: I've had some alcohol already
08:42 PM Tom_L: https://www.saleae.com/
08:42 PM Tom_L: aparently not enough or you'd have pulled the trigger already :)
08:42 PM tiwake: well
08:42 PM tiwake: money
08:42 PM tiwake: money is the bottom line for everything
08:42 PM tiwake: unless you are the government
08:43 PM tiwake: screw the government
08:43 PM Tom_L: mine is logic level only but they have others now that have analog
08:43 PM Tom_L: you can dl the software and look it over
08:43 PM Elmo40: tiwake, ditto
08:44 PM tiwake: Tom_L: is the saleae a DAC?
08:44 PM tiwake: data acquisition
08:44 PM tiwake: unit thing
08:45 PM Tom_L: to the pc yes
08:45 PM Tom_L: it will save your signal
08:45 PM tiwake: merf
08:45 PM tiwake: I think I have a cheap NI unit somewhere
08:46 PM Tom_L: you can get clones for cheap i think but mine's the real deal
08:46 PM tiwake: yeah, I'd rather have a rigrol
08:46 PM Wolf__: guess it kinda depends on what your end use is…
08:46 PM Tom_L: yep
08:46 PM Tom_L: then you're stuck with 2 channels
08:47 PM Tom_L: unless that's all you need
08:47 PM Wolf__: used/surplus scope market is also a possible
08:47 PM tiwake: the saleae is more expensive
08:47 PM Tom_L: not all of em
08:47 PM Wolf__: DS1054z is 4 channel
08:47 PM Tom_L: find a cheap clone
08:47 PM Tom_L: ok
08:48 PM Tom_L: just depends what your needs are
08:48 PM tiwake: don't need it now
08:48 PM Wolf__: for my own stuff I think its one of the 2 tools I own that havent paid for itself yet lol but I’m not a EE at all
08:48 PM tiwake: the thing I need to do now is finish paying off the hardinge CHNC and my student loan
08:49 PM tiwake: yeah, I'm not either... I'm just a stupid crap machinist who has a crap job
08:50 PM Wolf__: now if I ever bother to trouble shoot/ fix my miller 200DX and end up using the scope, then it will pay for itself along with the LCR meter lol
08:50 PM tiwake: I went to houstex, a manufacturing trade show here in texas... there was a booth there where the guy was representing a security firm catered for manufacturers
08:50 PM tiwake: the guy asked me, after we talked a bit, if I was working for the Department of Defense or something
08:51 PM tiwake: (because I know how to do all that crap)
08:51 PM tiwake: I make machines sing
08:51 PM Wolf__: Ive thrown a few trade show reps for a loop in similar ways lol
08:52 PM tiwake: electronic or mechanical machines
08:52 PM tiwake: or any combo thereof
08:52 PM norias: I've got an interview in a screw machine shop tomorrow
08:52 PM norias: acme gridley's
08:52 PM norias: looks interesting
08:53 PM Tom_L: i ran a row of new brittans
08:53 PM Wolf__: like at a dod show asking how well the drone jammer does vs 433mhz freq hopping rc control
08:53 PM Tom_L: in a past life
08:53 PM Tom_L: all mechanical
08:53 PM norias: i've never seen one of these in action
08:53 PM norias: i think it will be a blast
08:54 PM tiwake: taught myself how to program in C and Java before I saw any machines
08:54 PM Tom_L: 6 & 8 spindle with cross slides and end slide for all 6 or 8
08:54 PM tiwake: then I started working in a machine shop
08:54 PM tiwake: when I was 18
08:54 PM Tom_L: norias typically they run larger barstock
08:54 PM tiwake: in two weeks I'll be 32
08:54 PM norias: Tom_L: should be fun.
08:54 PM Wolf__: I wish I had learned how to code when I was younger =/
08:54 PM Tom_L: in 2 weeks i'll never see 32 again :)
08:55 PM Tom_L: norias kindof a dirty job
08:55 PM tiwake: I think on monday, the 25th, I'll take the day off to see if there are other good jobs around I could get
08:55 PM Wolf__: I’m a year or 10 past 32 =(
08:55 PM Tom_L: form tools
08:55 PM Tom_L: heh me too
08:55 PM norias: Tom_L: dirty doesn't bother me too much, as long as things are well organized
08:55 PM tiwake: right now my job is manual machines, where the ways of all the machines look like they were milled out with a cob endmill
08:56 PM Tom_L: it's old junk
08:56 PM Tom_L: interesting if you've never seen one
08:56 PM tiwake: working with any of the machines where I currently work pisses me off pretty much every day
08:56 PM norias: lol
08:57 PM tiwake: not because they are manual
08:57 PM Wolf__: sounds like me, except all the machines are my own =/
08:57 PM tiwake: they are in such dis-service though... blah
08:57 PM tiwake: super seriously pisses me off
08:57 PM tiwake: don't even have any digital readouts
08:58 PM Wolf__: ick
08:58 PM tiwake: two mills, 5 lathes
08:58 PM Wolf__: that was one of the first things I added to my mill and lathe after I got them
08:58 PM norias: DRO's can be over-rated :)
08:58 PM gregcnc: large work? how does a shop like that stay open?
08:58 PM norias: gregcnc: sales.
08:58 PM tiwake: ALL of them are so sloppy because over a lot of years the ways have never been wiped down after turning cast iron or sanding or anything
08:59 PM Wolf__: probably never oiled ways either
08:59 PM tiwake: gregcnc: sales, its an electric motor repair shop, so the machine shop is just to support everything else the company does
08:59 PM gregcnc: OK makes sense
08:59 PM tiwake: but the equipment super pisses me off
08:59 PM tiwake: crap I need more alcohol now
08:59 PM Wolf__: lol
09:00 PM tiwake: I'm one of two machinists
09:00 PM norias: gregcnc: i could tell some stories about the place i work now
09:00 PM norias: the only reasonable explanation for it's survival is amazing sales
09:00 PM gregcnc: I here them from my old man.
09:00 PM norias: because they do almost nothing right when it comes to manufacturing
09:00 PM tiwake: yeah, there is a guy at my work who does more than $1mill in sales every year
09:00 PM gregcnc: .005"/1" of taper in the ways of a CNC and they want ±.0005 or better at times
09:01 PM norias: gregnc: most of the parts that get shipped late were i work
09:01 PM norias: are late because someone lost them
09:01 PM tiwake: selling industrial things, bigass motors, bigass air compressors... etc.
09:01 PM norias: lost
09:01 PM gregcnc: They had a lathe last year, an entire turret fell off
09:01 PM norias: no fucking clue where they are
09:02 PM tiwake: sigh
09:02 PM Wolf__: wow… and here I was pissed that my manual lathe was cutting a .001” taper over 3”
09:02 PM tiwake: I could do so much better
09:02 PM gregcnc: hah, that's crazy
09:02 PM norias: it's the most batshit thing i've ever seen
09:02 PM norias: no production schedule
09:02 PM tiwake: Wolf__: my machine does 0.001" taper every 1/2 inch
09:02 PM tiwake: well, my main machine at work
09:02 PM gregcnc: taper is a bigger pain on manual
09:02 PM tiwake: and the turning is never round
09:02 PM gregcnc: on CNC you program it out
09:03 PM Wolf__: did help pressing bearing on lol
09:03 PM tiwake: generally 0.0005" out of round because of how sloppy the compound is
09:03 PM tiwake: sometimes more
09:03 PM gregcnc: but whent he machine is so shitty you need three tapers programmed on a single bore...
09:04 PM Wolf__: yeah thats bad
09:04 PM Wolf__: and most likely my lathe is cutting taper due to the thing not being bolted down or leveled
09:04 PM tiwake: brb - getting more alcohol
09:04 PM Tom_L: norias, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzFaRQt_i9I
09:04 PM Tom_L: the 52 was a little newer one
09:05 PM norias: looks awesome
09:05 PM Tom_L: i ran 60 61 52 51 and 812
09:05 PM gregcnc: right Wolf__ with some pateince not too difficult to dail in
09:05 PM norias: are those cam driven?
09:05 PM Tom_L: yes
09:05 PM Tom_L: rotary cam on the front slide
09:06 PM norias: how are the cams made?
09:06 PM Tom_L: drum cam ^^
09:06 PM Tom_L: and flat moon shape cams on the sides
09:06 PM Tom_L: drive gears are in the front
09:06 PM Tom_L: for all of it
09:06 PM norias: because you have to make new cams for each new part, right?
09:06 PM Tom_L: not always
09:07 PM Tom_L: we used 'close'
09:07 PM Tom_L: new jobs got new cams
09:07 PM Tom_L: if the stroke was enough and within reason we used em
09:07 PM norias: ok
09:07 PM norias: how are they made?
09:07 PM Tom_L: some had spindle brakes per station for cross ops
09:08 PM Tom_L: how are what made?
09:08 PM norias: the cams
09:09 PM tiwake: back with peach whiskey and orange soda
09:09 PM gregcnc: fuzzy navels?
09:09 PM Tom_L: ^^
09:10 PM tiwake: ..?
09:10 PM Tom_L: tool n die made ours i think
09:10 PM Tom_L: i know they made the form tools
09:10 PM tiwake: did I mention how the machines at my work piss me off?
09:10 PM tiwake: I can't even sharpen drills
09:11 PM tiwake: I can sharpen drills by hand better than I can with the crappy machine they have
09:12 PM tiwake: on top of that, the other machinist is like "well, everything we have here works, we don't need to be super precise
09:12 PM tiwake: "
09:12 PM tiwake: blarf
09:12 PM Tom_L: norias i figured i ran thru probably a ton or two of material per shift
09:12 PM norias: I bet
09:13 PM Tom_L: then you get to scoop out the oily shavings from the bin to a hopper to be spun
09:14 PM norias: ok, i heard about this spinning
09:14 PM Tom_L: collet tubes are probably 2.5' long or so
09:14 PM norias: is that just cleaning the oil off the chips?
09:14 PM Tom_L: yes
09:14 PM norias: makes sense
09:14 PM norias: higher value scrap, right?
09:14 PM XXCoder: probably how shop extracts expensive swiss oil heh
09:14 PM norias: or does the oil get reused?
09:14 PM Tom_L: they re'use the coolant too
09:14 PM Tom_L: both
09:14 PM norias: gotcha
09:15 PM XXCoder: oil yes at work. one lathe uses only oil, and its expensive
09:15 PM Tom_L: i probably went thur 55 gal per shift overall too
09:15 PM tiwake: Tom_L: you and your fancy machines
09:15 PM tiwake: I used to work with fancy machines
09:15 PM Tom_L: those were not fancy dude
09:15 PM norias: Well, I'm excited.
09:15 PM tiwake: I made them sing
09:15 PM XXCoder: me and company oi work for fancy machines
09:15 PM norias: It's an hour drive, but I think it might be worth it
09:16 PM Tom_L: i made money doing setups
09:16 PM XXCoder: theres companies hiring people to do setups? interesting
09:16 PM norias: I bet
09:17 PM tiwake: setups, custom fixtures, programming, process refinement... I think they call that manufacturing engineering
09:17 PM norias: naw
09:17 PM norias: that's just machining
09:17 PM tiwake: you would think
09:17 PM XXCoder: interesting. we do outprocesses but thats uncommon, we do all in-house otherwise
09:18 PM tiwake: manufacturing engineering is arranging machines to maximize process potential, and some other things
09:18 PM tiwake: mostly stuff centered around maximizing process flow
09:18 PM Wolf__: unless the place just uses lower skilled operators during production runs and the higher skilled more $$/hr for setup
09:19 PM XXCoder: more basic jobs I do everything (not fixture making and programming) myself
09:20 PM norias: huh
09:20 PM tiwake: have half of a mechanical engineering degree
09:20 PM norias: looking at the cam designs for these machines
09:20 PM norias: i've made stuff like this
09:20 PM tiwake: only stopped because the classes started getting too easy
09:20 PM norias: for uh, presses that make pills
09:21 PM norias: and other compacted powders
09:21 PM norias: tiwake: how much math did you take?
09:21 PM Tom_L: an older model 62: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqPcodjqUkU
09:22 PM Tom_L: the 60 & 61 were older, 51 52 etc are a bit newer with enclosed feed tubes
09:23 PM XXCoder: turret nice
09:23 PM tiwake: norias: all through calculus
09:23 PM tiwake: got done with all calculus and physics
09:23 PM norias: tiwake: oh, just calculus?
09:23 PM XXCoder: its really named british 62?
09:23 PM tiwake: then they got to the actual engineering classes
09:23 PM XXCoder: man now thats super ungoogleable name
09:24 PM Tom_L: brittan
09:24 PM Tom_L: new brittan gridle
09:24 PM Tom_L: y
09:24 PM tiwake: the engineering classes were too boring for me so I dropped out
09:24 PM norias: tiwake: no linear algebra, no diff eq?
09:24 PM tiwake: differential equations is calculus
09:24 PM tiwake: and I did that
09:24 PM norias: eh, i'd argue that point, but right on
09:25 PM tiwake: linear algebra is not required for mechanical engineering
09:25 PM norias: no? that's surprising
09:25 PM Tom_L: is that what you went for?
09:25 PM tiwake: it is for a bunch of other stuff
09:25 PM tiwake: Tom_L: ja
09:25 PM Tom_L: i've got 2 headed that direction
09:26 PM tiwake: but whatever, I've learned everything I need from college
09:27 PM tiwake: and college is supposed to be a starting point
09:27 PM tiwake: I did take a programming class, but... bleh... screw that
09:31 PM norias: well, at least you are making good money doing what you are doing
09:31 PM tiwake: $18/hour is good money?
09:31 PM norias: i dunno, where are you
09:31 PM tiwake: its average I guess, for a manual machinist
09:31 PM norias: and if it's not, why are you doing it?
09:31 PM norias: go do cnc, then, if it pays more
09:32 PM tiwake: but manual machining is like 1/3 of my capability
09:32 PM norias: what's the other 2/3?
09:32 PM tiwake: honestly because they were the first company willing to hire a guy that used to live 1,800 miles away
09:32 PM tiwake: heh
09:34 PM tiwake: thats why I'm thinking for my 32nd birthday I'll look around for other jobs
09:34 PM norias: where i live, if you have machining skills
09:34 PM Wolf__: ugh, 18/hr is what I make on my side gig that involves doing just about nothing for 12-16hr shifts
09:34 PM norias: and no drug habits
09:34 PM norias: or felonies
09:34 PM norias: you've got a job
09:34 PM tiwake: no speeding tickets even
09:34 PM tiwake: ever
09:35 PM tiwake: no kids, no wife, never even laid a female
09:35 PM norias: well, that's a different problem
09:35 PM tiwake: (honestly its cheaper)
09:35 PM tiwake: heh
09:35 PM XXCoder: doing nothing for 12-16 hours lol
09:35 PM XXCoder: so boring
09:36 PM Wolf__: it is
09:36 PM Wolf__: I’ll write maybe 5-6 incident reports a day on that job
09:36 PM XXCoder: kindle paperwhite with some books and some gaming like bittboy or retro mini lol
09:43 PM tiwake: merf
09:43 PM tiwake: I'm going to do some wiring for the in-dash wiring harness for my mustang
09:44 PM tiwake: needs some tweaking, its laying out in the living room
09:54 PM norias: awe hell
09:54 PM norias: i just went over the website for the place i'm interviewing tomorrow
09:55 PM norias: this could be more serious than i thought
09:56 PM Wolf__: o.0
09:58 PM norias: consider that their top setup people
09:59 PM norias: they were advertising up to $35/hr
09:59 PM norias: figure with overtime that's $80k / yr
10:03 PM Wolf__: not bad
10:03 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:04 PM XXCoder: thts pretty lot higher pay than mine
10:04 PM norias: yeah
10:05 PM norias: I'm interviewing for the shop foreman position
10:05 PM norias: in charge of 50 some folks on the floor
10:05 PM norias: through 5 subordinate supervisors
10:05 PM Wolf__: I had a guy offer to hire me on the spot w/ a $75k/yr starting salary and company work van after talking to him and him seeing my RC stuff I was flying at a local park lol
10:07 PM XXCoder: lol wow
10:07 PM Wolf__: may have been a neat job, RF id access control systems for nursing homes/hospitals
10:08 PM norias: you said no?
10:09 PM Wolf__: yeah, already have my own business
10:10 PM norias: ahh, makes sense
10:16 PM Wolf__: salary position was also a red flag to me, willing to bet the job came w/ 24/hr on call shift
10:17 PM XXCoder: my bro works for salary, but very strict program there on no overttime at all.
10:18 PM XXCoder: iof he works 50 hours one week, next week he must work 30 hours
10:25 PM Tom_L: Wolf__ fun ehh?
10:26 PM Tom_L: running a business...
10:26 PM Wolf__: oh yeah
10:26 PM Wolf__: maybe should have taken that job lol
10:26 PM Tom_L: workin fer da man...
10:26 PM Tom_L: no thanks
10:27 PM Tom_L: it's got it's moments
10:27 PM Wolf__: yup
10:44 PM tiwake: hmm
10:46 PM Wolf__: hmm?
10:49 PM tiwake: iunno
10:50 PM tiwake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYwSHRTakW0
10:51 PM XXCoder: having 4 legs and wings always seemed awkward to me heh
10:51 PM XXCoder: gonna exercise em all sometimes
10:52 PM tiwake: ignore the video
10:53 PM Wolf__: finish that muskrat harness yet?
10:53 PM tiwake: meh
10:54 PM tiwake: no
10:54 PM Wolf__: fords suck anyways, I should know, I have 5 of them…
10:54 PM tiwake: I need to strip some wires and solder on the connector
10:54 PM tiwake: the 1998 mustang is a good platform really
10:55 PM Wolf__: one of mine is 1/2 mustang lol
10:55 PM tiwake: just don't convert a 1998 6 cylinder to an 8 cylinder
10:55 PM tiwake: its horrible
10:56 PM tiwake: the 1996-1998 6 cylinder is the old push-rod style, where the same year 8 cylinders had completely different wiring schemes for the newer modular engines
10:57 PM Wolf__: I have a ’93 explorer sport (2 door) that I swapped a ’95 5.0HO block/accessories in to w/ a ’93 manual harness/ distributor and ’99 explorer 4r70w + trans controller
10:57 PM tiwake: hopefully me and my friend will get to put the cobra engine in it before my birthday
10:59 PM Wolf__: that sounds fun
10:59 PM tiwake: have all the parts and stuff
11:00 PM Wolf__: ’93 wasn’t bad seeing the motor harness is 98% stand alone
11:00 PM tiwake: need to trade out the in-dash wiring harness
11:00 PM Wolf__: top way is to just gut a donor car
11:00 PM tiwake: we did that
11:01 PM tiwake: but my friend thought it would be fine without changing all the wiring over
11:01 PM tiwake: which I told him was a crap idea
11:01 PM tiwake: and it was
11:01 PM Wolf__: yeah… newer ones have half the engine crap running in the dash harness
11:02 PM tiwake: I'd like to get a 2008 or newer, with the CAN bus system
11:02 PM tiwake: 2008 was when the federal government said the CAN bus system had to be a certain way, standardizing things
11:04 PM Wolf__: I’ll be pulling the stuff out of the explorer later this year probably, drive train is going in my ’69 bronco project truck
11:04 PM tiwake: I love embedded systems
11:05 PM Wolf__: yeah is somewhat nicer to work with
11:05 PM tiwake: enh
11:05 PM tiwake: I've always liked bare-metal programming, and machines in general
11:06 PM Wolf__: I wish BCM and ECM stuff was all standardized for programming tho, sorta like the VAGcom for vw group stuff
11:06 PM tiwake: https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
11:07 PM Wolf__: I need stuff to program newer stuff we work on in shop
11:07 PM Wolf__: but we arent in the position to spent $50k on software...
11:08 PM tiwake: Wolf__: https://www.moates.net/quarterhorse-for-fords-p-199.html
11:09 PM tiwake: I forget what year range it works for
11:09 PM tiwake: http://support.moates.net/ford-information-we-need-to-help-you/
11:10 PM Wolf__: I’m talking more like parameter setting in pacar and international trucks along with the alison trans computers
11:11 PM tiwake: why would you need a computer for a manual transmission?
11:11 PM Wolf__: alison automatic
11:11 PM tiwake: sell it and put in a manual
11:11 PM tiwake: :P
11:12 PM Wolf__: for PTO control/overspeed shutdown
11:12 PM tiwake: manual transmission all the things
11:12 PM Wolf__: customer trucks
11:13 PM tiwake: thats why I don't work on other peoples crap... its all crap
11:13 PM Wolf__: https://i.imgur.com/TP9VELB.jpg
11:13 PM tiwake: oh ok, 18 wheelers
11:14 PM Wolf__: shorter https://i.imgur.com/jqcxUnf.jpg lol
11:23 PM Connor: Man.. Dialing in a collet chuck is a pain in the a$$. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_QHQWnmQj4
11:23 PM Connor: I got it to around .001"
11:24 PM tiwake: nice collet
11:25 PM Connor: I'll work on it some more.. maybe I can get that down to a bit more..
11:26 PM Wolf__: I would check it w/ a collet and a gauge pin or something to see if the bore is concentric
11:34 PM Connor: I did both.
11:35 PM Connor: Was using a 3/4" End mill shank.
11:35 PM Wolf__: same run out?
11:36 PM Connor: Yea. I had it dialed in to around .0005" took it off to add the holes for the locks and put it back on.. I suspect that the locks moved it a bit. I dialed it back in, but had to go bome.. so, .001" is the best I got.
11:46 PM flyback: <flyback> my sister got me a pi for my 45th
11:46 PM flyback: <flyback> dunno which one but any will be cool