Feb 28 2019
01:47 AM Deejay: moin
04:19 AM jthornton: morning
04:21 AM XXCoder: hey
04:21 AM XXCoder: jthornton: damn machine got clogged and spilled a LOT of coolant 10 minutes from end of shift
04:21 AM XXCoder: mopped a lot in a hurry but still incomplete by time i left
04:21 AM jthornton: made a big mess
04:22 AM XXCoder: machine is still clogged, no choice but just leave it.
04:22 AM XXCoder: i hate leaving job like that :(
04:24 AM jthornton: you have central coolant tank for whole shop?
04:26 AM XXCoder: nah its from one mill
04:26 AM XXCoder: its big one so tons gallons
04:26 AM XXCoder: hell the sill probably just dented it a little
04:34 AM XXCoder: ya know
04:34 AM XXCoder: centeral coolant would be pretty scary lol
04:34 AM XXCoder: something breaks in middle of night and...
04:41 AM jthornton: my vmc came from someplace that central coolant but the seller built me a tank for it
04:43 AM jthornton: dang I have 0.5GB of data to burn today lol
04:43 AM XXCoder: big data spender! ;)
04:55 AM jthornton: yea watch videos all day lol
05:22 AM Tom_L: morning
05:23 AM Tom_L: 15░F Hi 31
05:42 AM jthornton: morning
06:14 AM XXCoder: lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRr9jq7ZnJQ
06:16 AM Loetmichel: maan. just got the monthly salary slip... that paper must be made of onions... salary: 3050.- eur. transferred to my bank account: 1643.97 eur... rest is taxes and (health/old age nursing/retirement) insurances. ;)
07:55 AM Jymmm: jthornton: Morning =)
07:56 AM Jymmm: jthornton: got any bandwidth left?
07:56 AM gregcnc: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-peanut-butter-pump#/
08:03 AM Jymmm: gregcnc: I'm surprised there are that many backers
08:07 AM Jymmm: 52696% funded ... https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vinpok-split-best-on-the-go-touch-screen-monitor#/
08:28 AM PL7icnc: pcw_home, Are you Online here
08:35 AM jthornton: Jymmm: 0.5GB
08:46 AM Jymmm: jthornton: Ready to install on the 3/4 pipe https://i.imgur.com/DYASkL5.jpg
08:47 AM pcw_home: Gee, that PL7icnc person does not hang around very long...
08:48 AM Jymmm: pcw_home: and is persistant
08:48 AM pcw_home: its like slow motion whack-a-mole
08:48 AM Jymmm: heh
08:49 AM methods_: lol
09:00 AM skunkworks: pcw_home: is there a single smart serial port device? I don't want to waste a 7i76 for just one smart serial port..
09:01 AM skunkworks: or would it as 'simple' as using a line driver?
09:04 AM Jymmm: what is a "smart" serial port?
09:05 AM skunkworks: pcw_home: you sell 485x1 One channel RS-485/RS-422 adapter
09:05 AM skunkworks: Jymmm: mesa cards use them as an expansion option... It is their standard I think
09:05 AM Jymmm: ah
09:06 AM skunkworks: uses network cable to inter-connect certain cards.
09:07 AM skunkworks: pcw_home: I want to hook it into the second port of the 7i92
09:12 AM Jymmm: Anybody need a wifi relay? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ESP8266-ESP-01S-Relay-Module-Remote-Switch-Phone-APP-DIY-Project-Design-Kit/32835253177.html
09:53 AM pcw_home: No there's no single channel device other than the RS-485 adapter, I may have a 7I74 in my junk drawer though
09:55 AM JT-Shop: I thought you cleaned out your junk drawer when you moved LOL
09:58 AM skunkworks: pcw_home: I don't need that many smart serials.. do you have one of the RS-485 converters in stock?
09:59 AM pcw_home: Its re-grown...
09:59 AM pcw_home: Yeah they should be in stock
10:01 AM skunkworks: ok - let me think of things I need and make an order :)
10:01 AM JT-Shop: I know how that goes lol
10:01 AM rene_dev_: this would probably work: https://www.ebay.de/itm/173582914532
10:05 AM skunkworks: rene_dev_: cool - except this gives me a reason to buy more mesa stuff... ;)
10:19 AM pcw_home: you could solder wires to a SP491+RJ45connector and encapsulate it in hot melt
10:21 AM MacGalempsy: hello
10:31 AM skunkworks: pcw_home: hmmm.. I could probably handle that.
10:33 AM Jymmm: skunkworks: Or, design something, 3d print it, video the whole thing, post on youtube, and get a billion views... NOT!
10:53 AM skunkworks: Jymmm: I wouldn't mind that... But I wouldn't 3d print it..
10:53 AM skunkworks: milled out of solid aluminum...
11:14 AM * Loetmichel is a little bit frustrated. We got 8 alu enclosures for mini PCs from china where the mainboard bolt pattern was 180┬░ rotated. So i instructed the coworker: take a measurement from the left lower corner, apply to the upper right corner, drill and set a bolt, same for the other four bolts. Now we just wanted to close the lid on the PCs: not one fits. Up to 25mm deviation between
11:14 AM * Loetmichel CPU cooler and air duct in the lid. Coworker: "i didnt knew that the position is critical, so i just threw the board in and marked the holes."... MAAAN, to work with PROs for ONCE, please... :-(
11:16 AM jthornton: you have all the fun lol
11:17 AM SpeedEvil: To be fair, 25mm is a fair level of skill to manage to mismark stuff by. That takes expertise.
11:17 AM Loetmichel: wouldnt call that fun... means that i will have to work the weekend again. deadline is monday morning at the customer for those 8 boxes...
11:18 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17235
11:19 AM gloops: 25mm is a funny amount to mis-measure, im usually 100mm out
11:19 AM Loetmichel: thats the box and the mainboard... can you imagine to misplace the board by 25mm there?
11:19 AM SpeedEvil: If I had marked it by trying to mark it in yellow, in the snow, sure.
11:21 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: just print a duct, it will be fine! :D
11:21 AM fragalot: SpeedEvil: you wouldn't make it 25mm with that
11:21 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: not possible
11:21 AM Loetmichel: the aluminium would sit on the fan
11:22 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: now now i went to this seminar, and everything can be solved by 3D printing
11:22 AM Loetmichel: look at the picture. the duct sits on an aluminium "channel". you cant move the hole in the alu
11:23 AM Loetmichel: especially not past the mounting screws
11:23 AM fragalot: that's because you didn't follow a course on designing for 3D printing
11:23 AM Loetmichel: aside from that: 8 new ducts would be two days printing
11:24 AM Loetmichel: meaning moving the board is probably faster ;9
11:24 AM fragalot: :D
11:24 AM fragalot: printing is not hands-on though
11:24 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: origami
11:25 AM Loetmichel: hmm?
11:25 AM Loetmichel: what do you mean
11:25 AM Loetmichel: it IS already origami ;)
11:26 AM fragalot: :)
11:26 AM SpeedEvil: Origami ductwork
11:27 AM Loetmichel: ah. doesen work. as i said: the cpu fan protudes into the aluminium channel
11:27 AM Loetmichel: so whatever i do with the printed duct: wouldnt help
11:29 AM fragalot: increase hole size
11:29 AM fragalot: put duct over to cover up the mess
11:29 AM fragalot: done
11:29 AM fragalot: get the fancy aluminium filled plastic to print the ducts for EMI.
11:31 AM SpeedEvil: Do up the screws slowly with the fan on, so the blades conform
11:32 AM Loetmichel: hihi
11:32 AM Loetmichel: THAT'll work with the (military) customer for sure, SpeedEvil
11:32 AM fragalot: SpeedEvil++
11:32 AM Loetmichel: :)
11:33 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: Write up a proper seventeen point procedure for it.
11:33 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: army or navy?
11:33 AM Loetmichel: no idea
11:59 AM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: Ok, that works =)
12:00 PM Jymmm: Loetmichel: See, it's because it's metric, had it been sae, that wouldn't of happened ;)
12:02 PM Jymmm: Loetmichel: But I do feel for ya, that's all a bitch
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: docks for phones and laptop were all phased out years ago, that indiegogo must be wrong :)
01:11 PM PL7icnc: Q: Is it posible to start a Mesa Config without getting the real mashine Startet First
01:12 PM PL7icnc: pcw_home, are You Sir Online
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: PL7icnc: if you stay in the channel for more than 10 minutes you might get a reply
01:15 PM PL7icnc: Thanks but not Today Posible
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: how IRC tends to work, just FYI
01:17 PM Loetmichel: *sigh*
01:17 PM Loetmichel: why does he try at all?
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: if he reads the logs he might find email or the forums more appropriate
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: how did you end up with such a talented coworker?
01:23 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: old worker rehired by the boss a few months ago
01:24 PM Loetmichel: and i get more and more to the conclusion that there was a reason he got fired a few years ago (before my time at that company)
01:25 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: Makes one wonder if it would end up cheaper to have an on-site laser cutter and break to make enclosures.
01:26 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: i have an on-site CNC mill
01:26 PM FinboySlick: Then again, I guess the problem wasn't the manufacturing but the ordering.
01:26 PM Loetmichel: and the programs ready (from the prototype) to make 8 new bottoms
01:27 PM Loetmichel: problem is the time i takes to cover them with powder coating again
01:27 PM Loetmichel: we dont have a powder coating oven at the company
01:30 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: you keep making your boss look good, hope he's compensating you for it
01:31 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: [13:13] <Loetmichel> maan. just got the monthly salary slip... that paper must be made of onions... salary: 3050.- eur. transferred to my bank account: 1643.97 eur... rest is taxes and (health/old age nursing/retirement) insurances. ;)
01:31 PM Loetmichel: qustions?
01:43 PM fragalot: does that number include overtime?
01:50 PM Tom_L: Loetmichel of all the ppl in your country to hire you get the smart one :)
01:54 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: indeed ;)
01:54 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: i dont get paid for overtime
01:54 PM Loetmichel: i chose to get offdays for it
01:55 PM Loetmichel: ... of which i have 26 from last year and another 8 from this year so far.
01:55 PM fragalot: i'm no longer allowed to carry mine over :(
01:55 PM Loetmichel: i cant take them
01:55 PM fragalot: lol
01:56 PM Loetmichel: i would LIKE to stay a few weeks at home by now. pretty burned out at the moment
01:56 PM fragalot: my dad's just retired on his saved up holiday
01:56 PM Loetmichel: no chance becaus every second day there is some other blunder i have to fix
01:56 PM fragalot: took several years off in a row
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: Blunderfixer
01:58 PM fragalot: have you ever looked into a cnc plate punch for your enclosures?
01:58 PM fragalot: it'd spit the panels out in minutes, giving you a lot more time to fix said blunders
01:58 PM fragalot: (and 2nd hand they really are not that expensive)
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: his boss doesn't need to hire competent staff since Loet just fixes everything
01:59 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: not useful for 8 box series
02:00 PM Loetmichel: the punch would be more expensive than a whole 100 series made in china
02:00 PM fragalot: that's where you're wrong
02:00 PM gloops: this identify lark is getting boring
02:00 PM fragalot: our subcontractor does one-offs on his
02:00 PM Loetmichel: ah. sorry misunderstood
02:00 PM fragalot: just put the panel on (in our case a Rittal door panel & backplate), sketch out the holes & hit go
02:00 PM Loetmichel: you mean a cnc punching machine
02:00 PM fragalot: yes
02:01 PM Loetmichel: yes, we have a contractor at hand that does that
02:01 PM Loetmichel: i thought you meant a punch die that puts out whole boxes
02:01 PM Loetmichel: in one "BAMPF"
02:01 PM fragalot: no :)
02:01 PM Loetmichel: ;)
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZxzN2DiE64 how will this help him?
02:01 PM Loetmichel: those tools are pretty expensive ;)
02:01 PM fragalot: lol
02:03 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: docks?
02:03 PM FinboySlick: I think fragalot meant one of those: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU3SKaBFHIk
02:04 PM fragalot: yup
02:04 PM fragalot: they aren't THAT expensive 2nd hand
02:04 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight you gettin any snow up there?
02:04 PM FinboySlick: Tom_L: We are.
02:04 PM FinboySlick: Actually...
02:04 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: our contractor has one of these (just without the robot feeders) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCoKkr2f68M
02:05 PM FinboySlick: https://twitter.com/xdeathmax/status/1100561493802844161
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: flurries
02:05 PM FinboySlick: Official government map.
02:05 PM FinboySlick: (closed roads due to storm)
02:05 PM Tom_L: supposed to get 5" on the weekend
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: how does that help if the box is already bent?
02:06 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: still punches holes into boxes if they're not too deep & the lid can be removed
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: he needs a CNC phasor for cutting out openings
02:06 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: the box can be made anew
02:06 PM Loetmichel: its not that big of a problem
02:06 PM Loetmichel: if you have a CNC punch and the material
02:07 PM Loetmichel: files are there
02:07 PM Loetmichel: but we have no time to redo the powder coating
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: more messy area
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: powder coat spray booth and oven in one
02:08 PM fragalot: one of those inflatable spray booths? :P
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: oh oh , laser sintered powder coating!
02:08 PM fragalot: & just put the part on the dashboard of your car & park it in the sun to bake it
02:08 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: i already suggested quite a few times to get a powder coating booth
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: have to wait until june
02:08 PM Loetmichel: and a small oven
02:08 PM Loetmichel: luckily boss has refused so far ;)
02:08 PM fragalot: cheap bastard :D
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: powdercoat applicator on laser sinter all in one!
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: on/and
02:09 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: it would be another thing only me can use though
02:09 PM Loetmichel: so its probably for the better ;)
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: would you coworkers warm their lunches in the oven?
02:10 PM Loetmichel: nope.
02:10 PM fragalot: xD
02:10 PM Loetmichel: but the ONLY one i would trust with producing anything sellable in that booth is my apprentice
02:11 PM Loetmichel: which happens to have aborted an apprenticeship as a painter beforehand
02:11 PM Loetmichel: ... and myself
02:11 PM Loetmichel: all the other ones: dont give them a rattlecan and some parts to paint: it WILL end with a bunch of runners and "orange skin"...
02:11 PM Loetmichel: been there tried that
02:12 PM Loetmichel: i doubt they will be able to do better with a powder applicator
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: can imagine your entire workspace covered in pink powder
02:12 PM fragalot: harder to get those artifacts with powder coating I thought?
02:13 PM Loetmichel: THEY will get them. Trust me in that.
02:13 PM fragalot: what if I don't?
02:13 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: i can
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: I need an inflatable oven
02:13 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: your loss ;)
02:13 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: let me know when you find one that can be used to heat treat stuff
02:14 PM fragalot: should fold up to the size of a shoe box, and be able to fit parts the same size as a shoebox when inflated
02:14 PM fragalot: half a shoebox would be fine too
02:15 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: sounds doable if it can be "flip up" instead of "inflateable"
02:16 PM fragalot: that'd be good too
02:16 PM Loetmichel: hrrrmp, if i only had time for all the things i could build ;)
02:16 PM fragalot: my list of things i've started keeps growing faster than the list of things i've finished
02:17 PM Loetmichel: same here ;)
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: https://youtu.be/vfSoA-Vk0l8?t=9
02:17 PM fragalot: difficult to control temperature of the overall part
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: why he's waving it around
02:18 PM fragalot: yea, no. :)
02:18 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: steel is a funny thing
02:19 PM Loetmichel: you can make it red hot at one and and still hold it with your naked fingers half a foot from that
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: levitate and heat treat at the same time https://youtu.be/vfSoA-Vk0l8?t=236
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/NhrxlXKA2yA?t=93 just for fun
02:22 PM miss0r: bah. I think I've bitten over more than I can chew here..
02:22 PM miss0r: I've bought home a siemens servo controller, that is making errors.
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: hardware or software problem?
02:23 PM miss0r: but you can get it to make the same error and fault out if you tap it lightly on the side with a screwdriver - which by the power of reasoning should mean a loose something.
02:23 PM miss0r: but I've been over it again and again. I can't find a single issue
02:23 PM miss0r: hardware
02:23 PM fragalot: they often have issues with broken pads
02:23 PM fragalot: difficult to find visually
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: rework every solder joint
02:23 PM fragalot: ^
02:23 PM Loetmichel: miss0r: get your glasses. resolder the control boards completely
02:23 PM miss0r: Indeed - also hard to find with a multimeter
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: we used to do that all the time
02:24 PM Loetmichel: and thourly
02:24 PM miss0r: Loetmichel: yeah, that won't take forever :)
02:24 PM Loetmichel: try again ;)
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: rework each pad and swap each electrolytic cap
02:24 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: The caps check out
02:24 PM miss0r: frozen, heated, shaken ect.
02:24 PM fragalot: miss0r: CaptHindsight's suggestion is actually one that works a LOT of the time
02:24 PM miss0r: indeed
02:24 PM miss0r: I think I will do that
02:24 PM fragalot: joints that look good, might not be
02:25 PM fragalot: flux is your friend
02:25 PM Loetmichel: indeed
02:25 PM miss0r: Indeed. I will give it a go.
02:25 PM Loetmichel: miss0r: classical case of "Grundig"
02:25 PM miss0r: I'm hoping it is on the power board, and not the controller itself. then I might as well give up.
02:26 PM Loetmichel: "Gr├╝ndlich Ueberall Nachl├Âten Dann Ists Gut!"
02:26 PM miss0r: Hell, a refurbished controller card for it is only ~8000eur
02:26 PM Loetmichel: (throughly and all resolder then its good again)
02:26 PM miss0r: hehe
02:26 PM miss0r: I will give it a go.
02:27 PM miss0r: But it makes 'some' sense that is is on the power board - the error the HMI reports is "missing x/y axis phase wire"
02:27 PM Loetmichel: Grundig was a german company that in the 80ties decided to cut costs on solder
02:28 PM miss0r: I know Grundig all too well
02:28 PM Loetmichel: for their TVs
02:28 PM miss0r: I had a grundig tv...
02:28 PM miss0r: :D
02:28 PM Loetmichel: with the above effects ;)
02:28 PM Loetmichel: hmmm
02:28 PM * miss0r is gathering strength for the resolder process.
02:29 PM Loetmichel: does the drive have IDC cables between the boards?
02:29 PM miss0r: Tell me; would you guys think it enough to just heat the existing solder + add a little more with a flux core?
02:29 PM Loetmichel: if so: have you tried to "re-press" them?
02:29 PM fragalot: miss0r: usually, yes
02:29 PM Loetmichel: i have seen those connections go bad over the years
02:29 PM miss0r: Loetmichel: re-press?
02:29 PM miss0r: as in the connectors?
02:29 PM Loetmichel: unplug the cables, press the plugs in a vice
02:29 PM miss0r: I have not
02:30 PM Loetmichel: so they reseat/cut the cable again
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: that is what we used to do, add new solder to old joints
02:30 PM miss0r: But the PSU is two busbars - they are bolted
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r: this was the through hole days
02:31 PM miss0r: the power board is also though hole
02:31 PM miss0r: the controller is a whole new can of worms
02:32 PM * miss0r is uploading photos
02:33 PM fragalot: miss0r: do you have a part#?
02:34 PM miss0r: its a simodrive lt-module 2x15A
02:35 PM fragalot: these guys have used in stock & offer repairs on those https://www.abcparts.be/en/spareparts/all/all/simodrive-lt
02:35 PM miss0r: https://imgur.com/a/8GBMk7M
02:35 PM fragalot: i've talked to them quite a few times on tradeshows, from what i've gathered they seem to know what they're doing
02:36 PM miss0r: That is good to know.
02:36 PM fragalot: yea just resolder the lot
02:36 PM fragalot: :D
02:36 PM miss0r: Should this repair not work, I will contact them
02:36 PM miss0r: but I wouldn't mind being able to pull this off over night - that looks good on the resume :)
02:36 PM fragalot: :-)
02:37 PM miss0r: I wonder what my chances are, that the tap-a-tap-tap on the side was showing a defect on the power board, and not some micro vibrations in the motor cables ect..
02:37 PM miss0r: or even worse - the controller
02:37 PM fragalot: 33%
02:37 PM fragalot: :D
02:38 PM miss0r: lol thanks
02:38 PM fragalot: if you don't have a 2nd set to compare or swap parts around, a defect could be anywhere
02:38 PM miss0r: I don't suppose I get to keep those odds if I list a few more options?
02:38 PM fragalot: no
02:38 PM miss0r: :D
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: "was able to solve major manufacturing delay overnight"
02:39 PM miss0r: I actualy have a machine quite like this, standing next to it, with simylar issues
02:39 PM fragalot: but most electronics repair is literally just resoldering joints & replacing parts that look like they shat themselves, or run hotter than they should
02:39 PM miss0r: fragalot: By the way; the replacement board for the safety relay worked a charm
02:39 PM fragalot: oh good i'm glad it wasn't a critical part
02:39 PM fragalot: :D
02:40 PM miss0r: hehe - it is not used as such - then I wouldn't replace the innerts :D
02:40 PM miss0r: I should just stick to calling it a redundant relay
02:40 PM fragalot: they're only redundant if there is a feedback loop signalling one has failed
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: "solved critical manufacturing issue with bare hands"
02:41 PM miss0r: Nothing looks like its ever been above room temperature in there.
02:41 PM fragalot: probably hasn't, but it's likely to have seen a lot of vibration
02:41 PM fragalot: so either the cable, or the solder joints are possible to have microfractures
02:41 PM miss0r: CaptHindsight: Indeed. I can see the yellow star stickers the boss of the factory will insert next to my name in his little black book :)
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: gold stars
02:42 PM fragalot: 'are possible to' -... can you tell english isn't my first language? >.<
02:42 PM miss0r: take it easy there cowboy. I'm not planning to put out a factory wide fire with my bare hands
02:42 PM miss0r: fragalot: Still better than alot of native speakers ;)
02:43 PM fragalot: the natives didn't speak english
02:43 PM miss0r: how is you doing ma' man? I is faaaaane
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: "solved critical manufacturing issue with bear hands"
02:43 PM miss0r: solving anything with bear hands in impressive, unless it is catching salmon directly out of a stream
02:44 PM miss0r: I can't type either.. lol
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: "solved critical food infrastructure delay with bear hands"
02:44 PM miss0r: I need to go fire up 'ye oldie soldering iron
02:44 PM skunkworks: I talk pretty one day
02:44 PM miss0r: See you around
02:44 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: you mean the supply chain?
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: customer facing at that
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: cringe or kill when you hear these terms?
02:45 PM fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kjY9sKdHlY
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: Ouw my balls, animal planet edition
02:52 PM fragalot: you found a compilation?
02:52 PM fragalot: :P
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turret-Punch-Press-PULLMAX-Pullmatic-104-27-Ton-CNC-16343-/192209716900
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/chassis-maker-CNC-turret-punch-press/183399207769
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-PUNCH-Wiedemann-C1000-Turret-Punch-Press/172660063343
03:02 PM fragalot: like I said, not that expensive
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: the problem is usually moving them
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: some body here had one they we going to convert
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: was in Atlanta area, built and flew planes
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: had a laser mishap
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: whatever happened to him?
03:03 PM fragalot: no idea
03:04 PM SpeedEvil: I thought you said he had a LASER mishap.
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: minor fire, just the top floor
03:05 PM fragalot: colleague of mine outsourced some copper parts to a laser shop once
03:05 PM fragalot: turns out that the laser they used does not like copper
03:05 PM fragalot: also turned out to be a brand new machine, less than a week old
03:05 PM fragalot: ._.
03:05 PM SpeedEvil: :)
03:06 PM methods_: ouch
03:06 PM methods_: yeah co2 lasers can't cut copper or brass
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: tan from the sun :) https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Punch-Press-Strippit-Custom-AG-18-30-3-Phase/391995345012
03:06 PM methods_: or not for very long at least
03:06 PM methods_: our new fiber laser will however cut up to 3/8" copper and brass which is really cool
03:06 PM fragalot: methods_: he explained it apparently acted like a "perfect mirror" & just reflected the full beam right back up where it came from
03:07 PM methods_: yeah
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: know your wavelengths!
03:07 PM methods_: it's not a good thing to do to your laser
03:07 PM SpeedEvil: Phase conjugate mirrors FTW
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: or use fancy optics
03:08 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: this is why some things get outsourced to people that are expected to know better than you do :P
03:08 PM gloops: re-callibrate the trans-warp hub with the spacetime continuum
03:08 PM fragalot: gloops: before or after ejecting the warp core?
03:09 PM gloops: in tandem
03:09 PM fragalot: how on earth would you do that
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: hyper spanner
03:09 PM fragalot: ah, of course!
03:09 PM gloops: not my field really
03:09 PM fragalot: miss0r: you done yet? :P
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-sets-Turret-Punch-Dies-3-1-2-D-MATE-LOWER-DIE-HOLDER-Strippet-Amada-type/153386580065
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: never worked with software for those
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: can you make a punch a standard and them use it to punch larger holes?
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: in nibble mode
03:11 PM fragalot: on some machines
03:12 PM methods_: yes
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: say you have a range of round holes
03:12 PM methods_: a lot of them have rotating holders too
03:12 PM methods_: so they can punch and roll in any direction with the sheet
03:12 PM fragalot: yeah they're fun machines. kinda underrated
03:12 PM gloops: id think it would be difficult to keep a circular shape, if thats a necessity
03:13 PM fragalot: some of them can even roll form beads into the sheet metal
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: can you just use say a 5mm dia to make 6-25mm dia holes?
03:13 PM fragalot: gloops: sheet metal punches nibbling something out are more for approximate shapes than exact holes
03:13 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: yes
03:13 PM gloops: right
03:13 PM methods_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBlkiCaqH54
03:13 PM fragalot: it'd be ragged, but it would do it fine
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: do you have to use the machines controller to do that or is that done before in CAM?
03:14 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: i've only ever used our sucontractors machine once, he just does everything on the machine
03:14 PM fragalot: pretty sure he has never done any CAM & runs all his machines right from their controllers
03:15 PM methods_: definitely easier to do in cam
03:16 PM fragalot: and with the speed at which that guy rams the parameters in, I think you'd be hard pressed doing it faster in CAM for the type of work we ask him to do
03:16 PM methods_: just load up the turret and auto tool
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: been thinking about converting some machines here to sheet metal forming
03:16 PM methods_: you really need to do a lot of chassis work with lots of holes or special form tools before turret punch makes sense anymore
03:16 PM methods_: lasers are just so much faster
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: but for one offs
03:17 PM fragalot: are they still faster if you need to do large hole patterns?
03:17 PM fragalot: lasers are certainly a lot more versatile, but imho punches still have their place
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: lasers can't form a rib
03:18 PM fragalot: not with that attitude
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: do you just need holes or some forming?
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: laser and prayer for metal forming
03:19 PM fragalot: we only need holes, some hex shaped for inserts, or square for HMI's, round for buttons, etc
03:20 PM fragalot: punches can't do this though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_g_odCplHE
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: similar here plus some DB connector shapes
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: but have been thinking about CNC forming for short runs of obsolete sheet metal parts
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: say old cars
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: vs hammer, English wheel and lots of welding, grinding polishing
03:23 PM fragalot: that'd be an interesting project
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/0xOANlj_O88?t=72
03:25 PM methods_: methods_> you really need to do a lot of chassis work with lots of holes or special form tools
03:26 PM methods_: it's much easier to put a lower skilled person on a laser too
03:26 PM methods_: the learning curve for a turret punch is quite a bit steeper
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/7FCFjihORZ8?t=22 example application
03:27 PM methods_: sharpening tools, choosing die/punch clearance, loading/unloading tooling
03:27 PM fragalot: don't worry just put the top & bottom dies in at random & pray
03:27 PM methods_: lol
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: they eventually meet at some mutual shape :)
03:28 PM methods_: believe me i've had to unstick my fair share of punches put in the wrong way after some moron came back from lunch high as a kite
03:28 PM methods_: cross loaded punches are hell
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: imagine you scan the metal part required with your phone....
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: send the scan in.........
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: the part gets formed and shipped to you the next day
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: who wants to fund me?
03:29 PM fragalot: ha.
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: this is the crap i see
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: with a team that has no idea how to properly implement it
03:30 PM methods_: i have a great idea.......
03:30 PM * methods_ vomits
03:31 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: don't forget to use microsoft dynamics for everything
03:31 PM fragalot: let an AI work out how to form it
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: Java
03:31 PM fragalot: compute it on a tensorcore
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: Java AI
03:31 PM methods_: deep learning node.js AI
03:31 PM fragalot: and bitbang the result on an arduino
03:31 PM fragalot: methods_: not even Q learning where you can punish the AI?
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, why OVER build?
03:32 PM methods_: hehehehe
03:32 PM methods_: quittin time
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: just use found driftwoods for machine frames
03:32 PM methods_: totally green
03:32 PM methods_: renewable
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: total win win
03:33 PM gloops: driftwood is far too valuable for making machines with
03:34 PM gloops: not when you can jetwash it, call it 'fishermans cottage' and put it on ebay for $400
03:34 PM XXCoder: lol
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: how far upstream does lumber have to be tossed into a river before it becomes driftwood?
03:34 PM fragalot: xD
03:35 PM XXCoder: draftwood have that unique look, so a while I guess
03:35 PM XXCoder: why bother with river though? just build artifical looping salt water heh
03:36 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, old tub or shower
03:36 PM CaptHindsight: Single Point Incremental Forming https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnMW_YuMLh8
03:36 PM gloops: i know they are using a basic jetwash with grit in the water for scouring wood, think some special parts are required
03:37 PM gloops: or you can throw the wood in a cement mixer with sand and gravel
03:37 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: interesting
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: when I said driftwood I actually meant "found" wood items
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: might be a chair, fence, lose garage door etc
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: loose/lose
03:39 PM XXCoder: lol "wow this ikea chair parts must have drafted for a while!"
03:39 PM XXCoder: "amazing that I found all parts!"
03:40 PM gloops: ikea parts might not need very long lol
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CBCs9Bqvnc they change the angle of the rollers to form a cone
04:00 PM Deejay: gn8
04:59 PM Tom_L: is that better than hydropress?
04:59 PM Tom_L: same idea
05:00 PM CaptHindsight: SPIF has no tooling except for the rounded point
05:00 PM Tom_L: they have a form
05:00 PM Tom_L: so does a hydropress
05:01 PM CaptHindsight: hydropress has a form
05:01 PM CaptHindsight: SPIF has just a tool path
05:01 PM Tom_L: i didn't see the fixture til just now. he just mentioned all you need is a form
05:01 PM Tom_L: just a cutout in an aluminum plate
05:01 PM Tom_L: or whatever
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, that part of the video was not well worded
05:02 PM Tom_L: might be ok for prototype
05:02 PM Tom_L: no sound
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: yes, short runs
05:02 PM Tom_L: hydropress is definitely quicker
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: old car parts seems like a great fit
05:03 PM Tom_L: depends how much the metal stretches
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: any application that uses forming for production
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: but you only need 1 to few
05:03 PM Tom_L: you'd have to work out your path so it didn't work harden and tear
05:04 PM Tom_L: they still have springback
05:05 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55LjFIIT8nA
05:05 PM Tom_L: i think we allowed 2-3 degrees on the sides of the hydroblocks typically
05:06 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/55LjFIIT8nA?t=81
05:07 PM Tom_L: i'm not real sure why the even need the spindle on there
05:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/55LjFIIT8nA?t=237 heat shields for exhausts
05:07 PM CaptHindsight: the first thing that rusts and gets thrown away
05:08 PM pink_vampire: I love PVC
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: i have an old EDM I might convert, no spindle
05:08 PM pink_vampire: keep the EDM an EDM
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: was an EDM, now it's just 3-axis with no tools
05:11 PM Tom_L: they've been doing that on lathes for years
05:11 PM Tom_L: makes sense to use a mill
05:12 PM Tom_L: lathe usually has a form behind it though
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilb64LTWcxM
05:25 PM andypugh: Cool punch. Also does bending and swaging: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU3SKaBFHIk
05:26 PM andypugh: Oh, and tapping.
05:29 PM andypugh: I just recieved my granite square from China.
05:29 PM andypugh: I wonder why they felt the need to coat it in rust-proofing oil?
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: granite rust is difficult to remove :)
06:26 PM SpeedEvil: To be fair, it is.
06:26 PM SpeedEvil: But it's more staining.
11:02 PM pink_vampire: hi
11:02 PM pink_vampire: someone here?
11:03 PM Tom_L: doubtful
11:09 PM pink_vampire: I just finish soldering to the G320
11:11 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/g2ya2WI.png?1
11:12 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/ks1ock5.png
11:12 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/c2hldjS.png
11:14 PM pink_vampire: Tom_L: ^
11:21 PM Tom_L: nice