Feb 20 2019
12:36 AM gloops: record february temps forecast for the weekend 19C
12:40 AM gloops: previous was 16C
02:10 AM Deejay: moin
02:29 AM Loetmichel: mornin'. *HRRRMPF* Note to self: If you use Dsub9 plugs for Linit switches on your CNC machine: TIGHTEN THOSE DAMN SCREWS!... Took me 1 hour just not to find the reason the §"$)(%() machine didnt want to home properly... :-(
02:37 AM sensille: Loetmichel: you're really having fun atm
02:39 AM Loetmichel: its morning. let me get my first coffee and it gets better
02:39 AM sensille: like every morning?
02:39 AM Loetmichel: yes
03:59 AM jthornton: morning
04:18 AM XXCoder: heys
04:34 AM jthornton: snow came within 60 miles of us
04:34 AM XXCoder: saturaday ponentally sleet lol besides that rain or sunny
04:35 AM XXCoder: missed drat lol I should aim snow better ;)
04:43 AM Loetmichel: hmpf... and another mill bit gone... *replace* *start machine again*... uuups, only one left... *orders another 20* .-)
04:43 AM XXCoder: fun
04:45 AM XXCoder: once had last tool break on very hot job
04:46 AM XXCoder: they rushed more tools in and arrived next day.
04:46 AM XXCoder: somehow inverory missed that tool was about to run out
04:46 AM * Loetmichel made D-bits with a dremel and a diamond disk myself a few times because of that ;)
04:46 AM Loetmichel: so now i am seeing to it that i always have bits in spare
04:47 AM XXCoder: I'm pretty dang sure it was very expensve. apparently tool company drove it in themselves
04:47 AM Loetmichel: ... if all fails there is a 10 pack 2mm alu mill bits in my jacket. from my home mill
04:48 AM Loetmichel: "just in case"
04:48 AM Loetmichel: generates funny looks tho when the police checks you out though.. "whats with all those tools and Thumbdrives in your pockets?"
04:49 AM Loetmichel: -tho
04:50 AM XXCoder: "oh just tools and files for my ghost gunner machine"
04:50 AM XXCoder: ;)
04:50 AM rmu: Loetmichel: how often do you get "checked out" by police in germany?
04:50 AM Loetmichel: rmu: not that often
04:51 AM Loetmichel: last time was about a decade ago
04:52 AM Loetmichel: rmu: are you from america?
04:52 AM rmu: i'm pretty sure police can't jsut search you
04:52 AM XXCoder: ghost gunner would be very illegal at your place lol
04:52 AM rmu: Loetmichel: austria
04:52 AM Loetmichel: they cant, but they can ask nicely to show them your pocket contents
04:53 AM Loetmichel: and i saw no reason to object, knowing i have nothing illegal in there
04:54 AM Loetmichel: i just asked because us citizens have a different "average experience" with cops than germans ;)
04:54 AM Loetmichel: austria is similar to germany in that aspect i belive
04:54 AM rmu: i had my fair share of awkward police interactions
04:56 AM Loetmichel: rmu: awkward: yes. potentially deadly: no ,)
04:56 AM Loetmichel: german cops (and i think austrian, too) are a lot less "trigger happy" on average than US american ones
04:56 AM rmu: no, this is civilized country
04:57 AM XXCoder: most of usa cops is fine
04:58 AM XXCoder: some regions, expecially southeast, there is some problem with police culture
05:00 AM rmu: southeast is florida?
05:00 AM XXCoder: im talking about general region
05:00 AM XXCoder: southeast region of usa
05:05 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: i had a police unit do a house search warrant once at my home (ordered some chemicals at the wrong vendor that got busted, so they searched all his customers). Even those were very polite and "non-violent"... a bit clueless though, could have had all kinds of things at home they wouldnt have found it.
05:05 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:06 AM XXCoder: 2 police body searches and one house search thats 3 more times than I have experenced
05:07 AM rmu: Loetmichel: they were probably checking if you were running a drug lab, and i think your typical small-scale meth lab won't be hidden very well
05:07 AM Loetmichel: rmu: nope, they were searching for explosives
05:08 AM Loetmichel: that vendot get busted for selling KNO and stuff to terrorists.
05:08 AM Loetmichel: vendor
05:09 AM rmu: hehe... i (or rather, my 386SX "laptop", ca. 1992) once got introduced to an explosives sniffing device at munich airport. car-sized apparatus. probably some kind of GC-MS. that was fun.
05:09 AM rmu: terrorists using KNO?
05:10 AM rmu: KNO3
05:10 AM rmu: to do what? make their own blackpowder?
05:15 AM Loetmichel: something like that
05:17 AM Loetmichel: there was a big uproar in the german media back then that those 1000s of search warrants were "unwarranted" just by being a customer of a chemicals vendor.
05:18 AM XXCoder: wht did company do to be caught
05:19 AM Loetmichel: nothing wrong other than selling stuff that could be used to make explosives to customers without a background check (that WASNT mandatory back then)
05:19 AM Loetmichel: and the attorney general ordered their whole customer database to be searched
05:19 AM Loetmichel: that was the point about the uproar
05:20 AM Loetmichel: also there were stories about police seizing sugar in "non standard containers"
05:20 AM Loetmichel: and such things
05:21 AM Loetmichel: "my" police were very understanding though. Quote" we know its silly but we have the order to search... "
05:22 AM Tom_L: morning
05:22 AM jthornton: morning
05:23 AM jthornton: you get much snow?
05:23 AM * Loetmichel doesnt. +16°C outside just now ;)
05:23 AM XXCoder: sleet RIGHT now apparently lol
05:24 AM Tom_L: ~4" or so
05:24 AM Tom_L: was out sweeping the walk
05:25 AM Tom_L: stopped mostly before bed last night
05:39 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2QFu-tTvTI
05:40 AM XXCoder: probably cost more than regular ones, but way better security lol
05:40 AM XXCoder: security cams have really badly insecure access
05:41 AM jthornton: why do you say that?
05:41 AM jthornton: all my cameras are a pia to log into
05:45 AM XXCoder: problems on loggining isnt always translate to highly secure
05:45 AM XXCoder: though some of em has silly issues like unchangable admin login and password
05:47 AM jthornton: mine force you to use a hard password or they won't even work lol and you can change the user name to whatever you want
05:48 AM XXCoder: having no default user name is nice security also yeah
05:48 AM jthornton: anyway all my cameras are only visible on my LAN so I wish I could use them without a password
05:48 AM XXCoder: 2 different data points to figure vs 1
06:06 AM jthornton: going to take the raspberry pi 3 with the broken i/o and put a camera on it to get some use out of it
06:08 AM jthornton: https://www.pyimagesearch.com/2018/09/26/install-opencv-4-on-your-raspberry-pi/
06:09 AM XXCoder: yeah as well :)
06:10 AM jthornton: first thing I gotta do is get a micro sd card flashed... just spent 20 minutes trying to figure out why I could not ssh into it lol
06:10 AM jthornton: then plug it into the pi lol
06:11 AM XXCoder: :)
06:11 AM Loetmichel: jthornton_ classic ;)
06:11 AM XXCoder: i heard stories about guy being unable to turn pc on
06:11 AM XXCoder: turns out extension was plugged to itself
06:12 AM XXCoder: evenually I directly experenced that helping somone. lol
06:12 AM Loetmichel: happens
06:12 AM jthornton: lol that's a good one
06:12 AM jthornton: if you have a rats nest like my tables down here I can see that happening
06:12 AM XXCoder: im not worried, it WILL happen to me someday
06:13 AM XXCoder: everyone ages.
06:13 AM Loetmichel: had something similar today... boss: "that TFT isnt working" $me:"have you switched it on?" "Yes, of COURSE!"... came there to investigate: "and how did you do that, considering the menu keys PCB is missing entirely?" boss:"Ups!" :)
06:14 AM BitEvil: :)
06:14 AM XXCoder: lol
06:15 AM Loetmichel: got the front bezel with the PCB mounted, plugged it into the TFT electronics, pressed the power button and "voila" the TFT is working ;)
06:17 AM Loetmichel: <- had just mounted a shielding glass in front of the TFT, hence the missing front bezel
06:58 AM Loetmichel: *cough* *sway* ... spilling that half a liter of isopropyl alcohol on the workshop floor wasnt the greatest idea... quite "thick air" now in the shop... wouldnt smoke in there now ;)
06:58 AM sensille: "have you been drinking again?"
07:13 AM XXCoder: isnt that "go blind" type? or is that methinol something?
07:14 AM Loetmichel: IPA has the same effect as methanol if you drink it
07:14 AM Loetmichel: just more pronounced
07:14 AM XXCoder: extra fun!
07:14 AM Loetmichel: its for cleaning or rubbing, not for drinking
07:14 AM XXCoder: of course. lol
07:19 AM jthornton: hmm that rpi may have more problems than just no i/o it's running hot
07:21 AM XXCoder: fried chips?
07:22 AM jthornton: dunno I guess so it's still working but running hot
07:24 AM CNC_Brian: Anyone know how you set the initial gremlin backlit scale?
07:25 AM CNC_Brian: Is there an ini setting. My code is running but the backplot is just a dot and have to zoom it every time
07:26 AM jthornton: it zooms to the size of your program, do you have a long rapid move?
07:26 AM jthornton: that won't show btw
07:27 AM CNC_Brian: Its just the initial state before I load any g-gode
07:27 AM CNC_Brian: Be good to see the xyz
07:28 AM jthornton: is this in qtpyvcp?
07:28 AM CNC_Brian: Yes, just constructing a UI using you instructions.
07:28 AM CNC_Brian: The probe basic seems broken so starting from scratch
07:30 AM CNC_Brian: The envelope of the machine is also like looking a Jupiter
07:31 AM CNC_Brian: Be nice to have a initial iso view of the table
07:33 AM BitEvil is now known as speedevil
07:37 AM speedevil is now known as SpeedEvil
07:42 AM jthornton: I don't see anything in the ini options https://qtpyvcp.kcjengr.com/configuration/ini_options.html
07:43 AM jthornton: iirc once you load a file and select a view it zooms correctly
07:43 AM jthornton: that pc is down at the moment loading my rpi software so need the monitor
07:45 AM CNC_Brian: No probs, thanks for looking. It can go not the TODO list.
07:45 AM CNC_Brian: BTW have you used this Wings IDE for Python is awsome
07:46 AM jthornton: TurBoss: is working on a VTK cannon for the backplot which should be a lot better than gremlin
07:46 AM jthornton: no, I just use gedit
07:46 AM CNC_Brian: Got 6 days left on the eval. May have to get my card out
07:46 AM TurBoss: hello
07:46 AM TurBoss: I paid for pycharm pro
07:46 AM TurBoss: 8 € month
07:46 AM TurBoss: I don't use to code qytpycvp but i do for other things
07:47 AM CNC_Brian: ThaWas going to try that next before I take the plunge
07:47 AM TurBoss: comunity version is just enought for me
07:47 AM CNC_Brian: Im just learning Python 3 for work
07:47 AM TurBoss: just paid for the ssh feature
07:47 AM TurBoss: python is nice
07:48 AM CNC_Brian: Im going to try pycharm next.
07:48 AM TurBoss: cool
07:48 AM TurBoss: comuniti version is full featured
07:48 AM TurBoss: not limits on usage
07:48 AM CNC_Brian: Yes Im warming to it. Im a C# .Net programmer.
07:48 AM TurBoss: oh
07:48 AM TurBoss: I mantain a C# program
07:48 AM TurBoss: its uggly
07:48 AM TurBoss: :P
07:49 AM CNC_Brian: Im used to visual studio doing my job form me :-)
07:50 AM rmu: visual studio does the job for you until it doesn't
07:50 AM TurBoss: hahahaha
07:50 AM rmu: i remember remote debugging being really painful
07:51 AM CNC_Brian: Kind of concerning all we are working on is Python 2.7 and its end of support soon
07:51 AM rmu: did they fix debugging CLR programs running on different host (in different AD domain with no trust relationship?)
07:52 AM CNC_Brian: Not had that pleasure! Have a full dev environment to play with
07:53 AM TurBoss: CNC_Brian: don't wait 6 days to try pycharm lol
07:54 AM CNC_Brian: Having a look on YouTube over a coffee now.
07:54 AM TurBoss: xD
07:59 AM CNC_Brian: Yes see what you mean. It look much better and more polished that Wings for a start
09:34 AM CaptHindsight: if I inform some people that something works over a range of values, for instance between 3 and 6, why do they then ask "will it work at 4?" ....
09:35 AM CaptHindsight: have they been teaching some "new" math where this might be too confusing for some?
09:35 AM pcw_home: will it work at 5.5?
09:37 AM gregcnc: those people need their hand held crossing the street
09:39 AM gregcnc: are all silicone the same if I'm trying to seal some steel collets? some are non-corrosive, does it matter?
09:40 AM CaptHindsight: yes and no
09:40 AM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone
09:40 AM gregcnc: and if i need a form/mold to prevent the stuff from leaking out the slot, what plastic does silicone not stick to?
09:41 AM CaptHindsight: yes in that they fall under the category of polysiloxanes
09:41 AM gregcnc: store tube RTV?
09:41 AM CaptHindsight: but it's the side chains that can vary
09:42 AM CaptHindsight: the tubes also have fillers
09:43 AM gregcnc: nothing critical, I just want it to stick well not cause a bunch of rust
09:43 AM CaptHindsight: polypropylene is a good test of something that is difficult to bond to
09:44 AM Loetmichel: PE, too
09:44 AM gregcnc: Ok thanks
09:45 AM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: can you add a film of oil before adding the RTV?
09:46 AM gregcnc: not sure I can keep oil out of the collet's slot I'm trying to fill with RTV, just have to give it a try
09:47 AM CaptHindsight: RTV also won't adhere to water
09:50 AM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: whats the white grease at auto parts stores?
09:51 AM gregcnc: lithium base
09:51 AM CaptHindsight: it won't stick to that either and it's highly viscus
09:51 AM CaptHindsight: so it won't run
09:51 AM CaptHindsight: yeah lithium based
09:52 AM gregcnc: yeah ok. I have an extra 5C chuck then
09:59 AM CNC_Brian: On a standard BOB input with optocoupler I just apply 12V between ground and the pin in question don't I?
09:59 AM CNC_Brian: It has a built in resistor
10:02 AM skunkworks: if 12v isn't too much...
10:02 AM skunkworks: heh - 'standard BOB'
10:03 AM CaptHindsight: CNC_Brian: yeah, check the value of the resistor and the current range of the opto
10:03 AM CaptHindsight: no such thing as standard
10:04 AM CNC_Brian: seResistor is 102 on it, which I guess is 1000ohms
10:05 AM CNC_Brian: So 12mA through the opto
10:05 AM CNC_Brian: Not taking any current
10:07 AM CNC_Brian: 2.2 V across onto so it must be working.
10:07 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.electronics-lab.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Optically-Isolated-LPT-Breakout-Board-SCH.png this design uses common anode for the input optos
10:09 AM CaptHindsight: opto conducts when you pull the inputs low
10:09 AM CaptHindsight: some are just the opposite with common cathode
10:12 AM CNC_Brian: Yep that is need to ground the pin not supply 12 V!! Thanks though ~I was going mad
10:13 AM CaptHindsight: no problem, many BOB's have very poor on no docs
10:13 AM CaptHindsight: on/or
10:14 AM CaptHindsight: https://karusisemus.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/1323501781_1.jpg
10:15 AM CNC_Brian: Just testing my homing on the bench before I grind any motors :-(
10:17 AM pcw_home: Yeah the common Ebay-Mach 5 Axis BOBs have common anode OPTOS so "sourcing" inputs also 12V for OPTOS is common with spindle control
10:18 AM skunkworks: homing is awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYzwPdAdqyk
10:19 AM pcw_home: so those that use the analog spindle control with KBIC type drives will get electrocuted if they touch their limit switches...
10:20 AM skunkworks: that is awesome!
10:20 AM CNC_Brian: Yes been there now built a daughter card on the KBIC which accepts PCM and gives the 0 - 7V
10:21 AM CNC_Brian: Opto isolated from everything
10:21 AM skunkworks: I must be having and awesome day
10:21 AM pcw_home: what did that machine start as?
10:22 AM skunkworks: pcw_home: mine?
10:22 AM pcw_home: Yeah
10:24 AM skunkworks: it was tormach's 440 prototype.
10:24 AM skunkworks: needless to say - they didn't go with that vendor.. :)
10:25 AM skunkworks: it is going to be a decent machine. It just needed a bit of tlc
10:25 AM pcw_home: Ahh thats the one you have been patching
10:25 AM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2BGYOcmC4w
10:25 AM skunkworks: yes
10:25 AM skunkworks: when time permits..
10:31 AM CNC_Brian: How did you end up with a Tormach prototype?
10:33 AM skunkworks: it was trade for some trajectory planner testing I did.
10:35 AM pcw_home: Looks great, a really thorough job
10:46 AM skunkworks: the spindle drives they gave me are pretty bad. I think I am going to use one of my stmbl drivers for it.
10:46 AM skunkworks: I have a couple previous generations..
10:47 AM skunkworks: of drives tormach tested. They are a bit scary
10:51 AM CNC_Brian: So you local to the Tormach factory.
10:51 AM CaptHindsight: how is Tormach doing after their CEO passed?
10:53 AM skunkworks: CNC_Brian: they are about 2 hours away.
10:54 AM CaptHindsight: https://madison.com/wsj/business/company-mourns-loss-of-innovative-congenial-co-founder-greg-jackson/article_3509bf21-7d24-5a81-a8ff-07787c6b5437.html
10:54 AM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: seem ok.. I really don't know.
10:55 AM CaptHindsight: has sold about 4,000 Tormach machines so far
10:55 AM CNC_Brian: Im saving for a PCNC 1100 in a special account my wife dosnt know about LOL
10:55 AM CaptHindsight: didn't know they sold that many machines
10:56 AM CNC_Brian: Doing some free-lance programming and squirreling the money away.
10:57 AM CNC_Brian: The new MX should shut up some of the critics, servos
10:59 AM skunkworks: I like the bt spindle.. rigid tapping and such. since they went with linuxcnc - that is all possible
10:59 AM CNC_Brian: Just need to do a linear rail and I can't see how anybody can criticise at the price point.
11:00 AM syyl_: i am still suprised that a dovetail should be cheaper to machine than just bolt linear rails on
11:00 AM syyl_: especially as they still do handfitting of the gibs
11:02 AM skunkworks: that was the nice thing about the tormach 440 prototype. the ways felt really good. just everything else was a bit scrappy.
11:03 AM CaptHindsight: the castings are made in China
11:03 AM syyl_: yes, i know
11:03 AM CaptHindsight: i think the article mentioned that a Taiwanese firm does their QC for them
11:03 AM syyl_: and you can even get the lathe completely on alibaba
11:03 AM fragalot: 'sup
11:03 AM syyl_: without tormachsticker on it
11:04 AM syyl_: not sure what electronics it would come with
11:04 AM fragalot: syyl_: and with a CE sticker on it if you so wish
11:04 AM CaptHindsight: yeah likely seconds or just not as QC'ed parts
11:04 AM fragalot: unlike tormach :D
11:04 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: tormach does QC?
11:04 AM * fragalot runs
11:04 AM CaptHindsight: what the article says
11:05 AM syyl_: i wouldnt mind the sland bed lathe ;)
11:06 AM fragalot: i've looked at getting a tormach before I would up with the schaublin
11:06 AM fragalot: just couldn't find a reseller in europe & really did not feel like importing it myself
11:07 AM fragalot: the 2nd choice was a syil
11:07 AM skunkworks: you can get used cnc machines for less than the tormach... If you have the time to do the work/
11:07 AM fragalot: skunkworks: my issue is neither the funds, nor the time to do the work
11:07 AM fragalot: my issue is sheer size & weight
11:08 AM fragalot: it it does not fit between an 800mm wide gap, and can not be lifted over a 150mm step, and is taller than 1m90.. I can't fit it in
11:08 AM CaptHindsight: Tormach offers support, training and customization
11:08 AM CaptHindsight: what they say gets them the business
11:08 AM CNC_Brian: The price of parts for commercial machines is up believable.
11:10 AM CaptHindsight: fragalot: you need bigger doorways and halls
11:10 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: if only it were that easy :-)
11:10 AM fragalot: there was a very nice building up for sale right around the corner (literally) here
11:10 AM fragalot: but it was about €6m above my budget
11:13 AM CaptHindsight: no family friendly industrial spaces there?
11:13 AM fragalot: none that are affordable if you're a mere hobbyist
11:14 AM CaptHindsight: I had a friend that collected cars
11:15 AM CaptHindsight: as the collection grew so did his garage
11:15 AM CaptHindsight: last i saw it was >70ft long
11:15 AM CaptHindsight: looked the same from the street
11:16 AM CaptHindsight: just kept on expanding back
11:16 AM fragalot: land prices in my area hover around €400/m² (in 2014..
11:17 AM CaptHindsight: we use sq ft so it's cheaper :)
11:17 AM fragalot: :D
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: I thought everything in socialist countries like yours is cheaper
11:18 AM fragalot: basic right goods are
11:18 AM fragalot: going to the dentist for example costs me €6
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: a fine hobby
11:19 AM fragalot: and you don't leave all loopy because we use more humane sedatives
11:19 AM fragalot: :D
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: land in cities here is no bargain either
11:20 AM gregcnc: at least we don't need generational loans...yet
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: you trade cheap land in the farmland for lack of culture and longer commutes to civilization
11:20 AM fragalot: yea, those are brutal
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: go too far out and you lose high speed internet
11:21 AM gregcnc: we're on the edge here now
11:22 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: given that my country is probably smaller than your average american town.. that's not that much of an issue here :D
11:22 AM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: I looked at some spots NW of Woodstock... just dialup or wireless ..
11:23 AM gregcnc: yeah, that house were were looking at too
11:23 AM fragalot: just set up good ol' sneakernets
11:23 AM CaptHindsight: the wireless ISP said: you're 20 miles from the tower, you'll have to see what signal is left
11:24 AM fragalot: nice
11:24 AM fragalot: here they'd offer to bill you for the added infrastructure required
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: some Motorola 50mb/s shared system
11:25 AM gregcnc: here, they know nobody would pay for infrastructure
11:25 AM fragalot: doesn't stop 'm trying
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: similar with Comcast cable, it's usually 10k-20K more than the cost of running the cable
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: 400ft, $12k
11:26 AM fragalot: friend of mine shelled out 25k to run 20 meters of electrical cable
11:26 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: "super audio" cable?
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: larger service with bigger transformers?
11:26 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: 3x400V+N
11:26 AM Loetmichel: ah, and buried?
11:26 AM fragalot: yes
11:27 AM Loetmichel: then its probably the digging that was so expensive, not the cable
11:27 AM fragalot: they just needed to pull it 'round the corner as it was not available yet at the front of his building
11:27 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: yes, the cable had to be provided by him
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: similar here but depends on how much public land it has to cross
11:28 AM fragalot: they dug 2 pits & shot it underground using one of those fancy flexidrill things
11:29 AM CaptHindsight: directional boring
11:29 AM gregcnc: expected consumption seems to have a big impact on install bill
11:30 AM CaptHindsight: still waiting for ATT fiber here, just inches away
11:30 AM gregcnc: in the building?
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: yes
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: other side of the interior wall
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: been there a year so far
11:31 AM fragalot: nice
11:32 AM CaptHindsight: will still have a $300 install fee
11:32 AM gregcnc: they just won't schedule you or what?
11:32 AM CaptHindsight: not available yet
11:32 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: Deejay has a tractor and plow to get fibre into the ground without digging
11:32 AM gregcnc: oh
11:33 AM Deejay: :)
11:33 AM Loetmichel: at least he has access to the plow. its in germany though :-)
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: might be waiting for Comcast to raise rates
11:33 AM Loetmichel: am i right?
11:33 AM Deejay: more or less, yep ;)
11:33 AM Deejay: thats how we got our fibre in the earth :)
11:37 AM fragalot: Another one bites the dust it seems (Honda)
11:38 AM CaptHindsight: what happened?
11:38 AM fragalot: closed up shop in the UK
11:40 AM Loetmichel: thats not "biting the dust" thats "cut the losses for next month"
11:40 AM CaptHindsight: 16,000 Workers to Lose Their Jobs as Payless Plans to Close All 2,500 U.S., Canadian Stores
11:41 AM CaptHindsight: people here can't afford new cheap shoes anymore
11:41 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: swindon, the town that its based in is going to feel this
11:41 AM gloops: EU killed the diesel engine
11:41 AM Loetmichel: fragalot: for sure
11:41 AM fragalot: and all of their suppliers
11:41 AM Loetmichel: but its not Honda (the company as a whole) closing
11:42 AM fragalot: Loetmichel: true, i misworded it.
11:42 AM gloops: think andypugh lost his job with jaguar?
11:42 AM gregcnc: catpt idiocracy had it right with the retail monopoly, but didn't see the amazon delivery model
11:45 AM gloops: some of these closures are just plans brought forward, Nissan scrapped the X trail being built here - the X-trail is scheduled to end production totally in 2022 anyway
11:45 AM CaptHindsight: Toys R Us, Sears, David’s Bridal, Mattress Firm, Claire’s, 9 west....
11:45 AM CaptHindsight: I'm having a harder time finding what i want on Amazon
11:46 AM CaptHindsight: i must be trying too hard
11:46 AM gregcnc: amazon search is not very good
11:47 AM CaptHindsight: over half the results I get are completely non related
11:48 AM fragalot: I don't like how amazon figures you're starting a toaster oven collection because you purchased one once
11:48 AM CaptHindsight: just a suggestion
11:48 AM gregcnc: hah yeah, buy a spare part for a fridge and they think you're building one
11:49 AM gloops: well its like supermarket psychology, you have to walk past everything else before you get to the bread and milk - good chance youll put something in the basket you didnt go in for
11:49 AM CaptHindsight: i just walk in and ask what i should buy
11:50 AM gregcnc: didn't commercials already tell you that?
11:50 AM CaptHindsight: if you say so :)
11:50 AM Loetmichel: gloops: and it works
11:51 AM gloops: it must do Loetmichel, or they wouldnt do it
11:51 AM Loetmichel: especially when i have to get grocerys on the way home from work when i have missed breakfast AND lunch that daay
11:52 AM fragalot: haha
11:52 AM gloops: its also socially questionable to put discount booze and chocolate smack beside the checkout queue
11:53 AM fragalot: I thought that was required?
11:53 AM gregcnc: we don't have beer at the check outs, we have energy drinks?
11:53 AM CaptHindsight: this is genius: Google says the built-in microphone it never told Nest users about was 'never supposed to be a secret'
11:53 AM fragalot: booze is usually either th first, or the last item you pass
11:53 AM gloops: it think its been banned here actually, well the chocolate
11:54 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: it wasn't supposed to be a secret, they just hadn't mentioned it
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: yeah that's it
11:54 AM gregcnc: free feature, what's the problem?
11:55 AM gloops: a free mic that goes absolutely everywhere with you
11:55 AM fragalot: I thought nest was their home automation setup that DOESN'T go everywhere with you but stays put at home?
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: https://nest.com/
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: secure cloud
11:57 AM mozmck: All of my home automation is powered by elbow grease. I haven't seen a compelling reason to use all those electronic gadgets yet - and a whole lot of reasons NOT to.
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: try to find versions that don't use the "cloud"
11:57 AM gloops: video doorbell
11:57 AM gregcnc: still stoking the fire by hand?
11:58 AM mozmck: Yes actually, my sole heat source is a wood stove.
11:58 AM fragalot: CaptHindsight: secure. except for those that had been hacked & didn't know for ages until the hacker started talking to their child
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: IoT
11:58 AM gregcnc: that's old school
11:58 AM fragalot: I fully redid my house as well, and didn't even bother putting in central heating
11:58 AM mozmck: I find splitting wood with a 16lb maul to be pretty good excercise!
11:59 AM gregcnc: not many doing that anymore
11:59 AM fragalot: let alone automation for lights.. just the bog standard switcheroo
11:59 AM mozmck: And it doesn't seem worthless like going to a gym or something :-)
11:59 AM mozmck: Yeah, same here - might live a little longer if I have to get off the couch to turn the lights on.
11:59 AM CaptHindsight: talk to someone under 25
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: you need all this stuff
12:00 PM gregcnc: did you send these messages last week by carrier pigeon?
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: who cares about privacy, I have nothing to hide
12:00 PM fragalot: mozmck: my concern was more that these switches will last for decades, whilst most automation systems will not
12:00 PM mozmck: true
12:00 PM fragalot: (and they require more space & wiring)
12:01 PM CaptHindsight: there a new thread on the ML about how PC for machine control are old tech
12:01 PM mozmck: That's one of my reasons - the simpler it is, the longer it will last.
12:01 PM mozmck: and obviously old == no good right?
12:02 PM fragalot: tech enthousiast: "I have a NEST controlling everything"
12:02 PM gloops: they do say the best wine comes from old bottles
12:02 PM CaptHindsight: https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-users/thread/9035dc8d-43e0-ba5a-dacb-05f28f0c8dc6%40linwin.com/#msg36590375
12:02 PM mozmck: Actually some of them are talking about going back to a bus setup with edge connectors - so they aren't against old per se.
12:02 PM fragalot: IT professional: "the most modern piece of equipment I own is a printer frlom 2004 and I have a loaded gun just in case it ever makes an unexpected noise"
12:02 PM CaptHindsight: silly old PC architecture from the 80's
12:02 PM mozmck: CaptHindsight: I'm on the list and have been reading that thread.
12:03 PM CaptHindsight: Another disappointment is G_code. It's archaic and "inhumane".
12:04 PM mozmck: yeah - not sure I understand the "inhumane" part
12:04 PM CaptHindsight: mozmck: was tempted to chime in but he's an idiot
12:04 PM mozmck: unless it's because he can't understand it...
12:04 PM CaptHindsight: he just attacks things without an explanation
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: I could draw him out but what is the point
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: "it's silly to search for suitable
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: PC motherboards that can run RT linux kernel when Arduino can handle
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: much of it."
12:05 PM mozmck: It's like the UI kids that think everything has to be "flat" and low contrast just because
12:05 PM fragalot: I hate that new UI craz
12:05 PM fragalot: e
12:06 PM fragalot: "oh yeah this flat text thing is actually an input field if you click on it"
12:06 PM CaptHindsight: "Why did GRBL designers go that route?" because they didn't see the big picture
12:06 PM Loetmichel: mozmck: not to mention that splitting wood is a pretty good stress release/anger vent ;)
12:06 PM mozmck: yeah - huge leaps backwards in actual useability.
12:06 PM CaptHindsight: kids often don't
12:07 PM mozmck: Loetmichel: haha! I sometimes go out and split a little while working over some problem in my mind - seems to help!
12:07 PM CaptHindsight: well when you don't know what you don't know yet
12:07 PM Loetmichel: ... that said: would i own a house it would probably have a central wood fired boiler and radiant heating in every floor
12:07 PM CaptHindsight: it's all so simple
12:07 PM gregcnc: if people ahven't looked at a complex machine vs a router or printer, they don't know why you'd want all the flexibility
12:07 PM Loetmichel: and a chute from outside right next to the furnace in the cellar ;)
12:08 PM mozmck: Loetmichel: I'm in Texas so we don't need that fancy a setup.
12:08 PM Loetmichel: german
12:08 PM Loetmichel: so we DO need that ;)
12:08 PM Loetmichel: gets pretty cold here
12:08 PM mozmck: Yeah, too cold there! I don't like temps under 75 degrees so I use my woodstove a good bit in the winter.
12:09 PM gregcnc: if they haven't coded a subroutine and run everything with G1 from a CAM soft, they don't know
12:09 PM CaptHindsight: heh my stat is set to 62F
12:09 PM mozmck: Better start a fire!
12:09 PM CaptHindsight: I keep the AC under 70F
12:09 PM mozmck: When we have HAD A/C, we set it at 80F
12:10 PM CaptHindsight: I'd melt there :)
12:11 PM Loetmichel: mozmck: the thermostat for the bedroom here is set to 64F, the rest of the flat has them set to 70F
12:11 PM Loetmichel: no AC
12:11 PM fragalot: all I have is a single gas heater in the livingroom & floor insulation
12:11 PM Loetmichel: wouldnt be worth the money for the 3 days a year you need it
12:11 PM fragalot: cold? turn the stove up. too warm? turn it down.
12:12 PM fragalot: upstairs not warm enough? open the livingroom door :D
12:12 PM fragalot: or grab an extra blanket
12:12 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: german houses tend to have central heating
12:12 PM Loetmichel: by design
12:12 PM Loetmichel: and its VERY convenient to have radiant floors
12:13 PM Loetmichel: especially in the bedroom and the bathroom(s)
12:13 PM Loetmichel: so you can walk barefoot on the tiles
12:13 PM fragalot: homes tend to have that here too
12:13 PM fragalot: but the investment if you're doing it all over is quite large
12:13 PM Loetmichel: indeed
12:13 PM fragalot: and I walk around barefoot without floor heating with no issues
12:14 PM fragalot: it makes a big difference if the floor is just insulated properly
12:14 PM Loetmichel: either design the house with radiant or basically tear it down and build a new one ;)
12:14 PM fragalot: the hallway isn't (because of the cellar), and there it is too cold to do it, but in the livingroom it's comfortable
12:15 PM Loetmichel: refitting radiant in an already built house is a pain.
12:16 PM Jymmm: Loetmichel: under floor?
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: invisible comfort zone that moves when you do
12:16 PM Loetmichel: <phone
12:16 PM gregcnc: microwave antenna on gimbals?
12:17 PM fragalot: replace all the ceiling tiles with IR heaters
12:17 PM fragalot: and motion sensors
12:17 PM CaptHindsight: very zoned heat source
12:18 PM CaptHindsight: i like gregs idea
12:18 PM Loetmichel: Jymmm: usually in /below the screet and above the insulation
12:18 PM CaptHindsight: but how about cooling?
12:18 PM Loetmichel: floors here tend to be 1' of concrete
12:18 PM Jymmm: Loetmichel: Eh, just raise the floor two inches
12:18 PM gloops: i dont see what was wrong with a good coal fire
12:18 PM gregcnc: the stares my wife give are enough
12:19 PM Loetmichel: meaning if you want to refit radiant: rip out the screet and insulation, redo the insulation, place the pex for radiant, puir the screet and let it harden for a week before using the room again
12:19 PM gregcnc: gloops trump agrees
12:20 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: that's what I did, sans the pex & radiant.
12:20 PM gregcnc: but can't you use some of the renewable peat over there?
12:23 PM fragalot: they are looking into distributing waste heat from factories in some areas
12:23 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: its called "fernwärme" in germany
12:23 PM CaptHindsight: http://bme240.eng.uci.edu/students/08s/heidarie/index.html need to make this simple and portable
12:23 PM Loetmichel: some cities with close by power plants use it extensively
12:23 PM fragalot: we're not set up for it yet
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: cooling gloves might be easier
12:24 PM Loetmichel: when i lived in wuppertal we had 5' thick insulated tubes along the whole river bed that supplied each house up to about 600' from the river with heat
12:25 PM Loetmichel: single steam line to each house, a heat exchanger in the cellar to power the central heating
12:25 PM Loetmichel: very convenient
12:25 PM Loetmichel: and not that expensive, too
12:25 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system
12:26 PM Loetmichel: because its "waste heat" from the power plant
12:26 PM CaptHindsight: China does similar
12:27 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating
12:28 PM Loetmichel: ... and to top it off: that power plant is using trash/waste as a heat source ;)
12:29 PM Loetmichel: so no dumps that fill up and have to be covered near the city either ;)
12:39 PM rmu: gloops: imagine, in pennsylvania they burn coal to heat a coal mine!
12:40 PM gloops: well that is the beauty of coal, so versatile
12:40 PM gloops: coal fired steam engines to ventilate the mine
12:41 PM CaptHindsight: yes, but they aren't very efficient, thats why they never put them in aircraft
12:42 PM gregcnc: nuclear aircraft saw limited use
12:42 PM gloops: theyre efficient in a different way, they use them for electricity generators
12:43 PM gregcnc: still?
12:43 PM gloops: yes still the best way
12:43 PM gregcnc: steam turbine is far better
12:43 PM rmu: wikipedia says centralia will burn for another 250 years
12:44 PM gloops: whats that rmu?
12:44 PM gregcnc: centralia has radiant floor heat for free
12:44 PM rmu: coal mine burning for 50 years
12:44 PM rmu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
12:45 PM gloops: why dont they flood the shaft
12:45 PM Loetmichel: happens
12:45 PM Loetmichel: we have one here in germany, too
12:45 PM rmu: seems it is not that easy
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire
12:46 PM CaptHindsight: Partially filled boreholes would provide an escape route for the fire
12:47 PM fragalot: rmu: have they tried large explosives?
12:47 PM fragalot: I'm pretty sure it'd work if the blast is big enough
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: The third plan was a "total and concerted flushing project" larger than the second project's flushing and costing $82,300. The state abandoned this project in 1963.
12:48 PM gloops: needs a canal making from the nearest river, you should never sink a pit shaft too far from a river
12:49 PM gregcnc: nor too close?
12:49 PM fragalot: :D
12:49 PM gloops: too deep to bother the normal mining process
12:49 PM gloops: we have shafts under the sea here, its no problem
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: gas-station owner, inserted a dipstick into one of his underground tanks to check the fuel level, the temperature of the gasoline in the tank was 172 °F (77.8 °C
12:50 PM rmu: we have shafts high up in the mountains, no real river nearby
12:51 PM fragalot: shouldn't have put the shafts there then
12:51 PM fragalot: did you not listen to what gloops said
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: should be using safe coal
12:51 PM rmu: fragalot: the soviet union used atomic bomb explosions to contain natural gas leaks / fires
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: only burns under pressure
12:51 PM rmu: with mixed results
12:51 PM fragalot: rmu: it worked, except when the blast was not large enough still
12:52 PM gloops: we're working on gasifying coal in situ
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: Germany's Brennender Berg, been on fire since 1688
12:53 PM gloops: that way you get the energy out, but not the tar
12:53 PM gregcnc: it's not steam, but could have been.. https://www.instagram.com/p/Btq5LcIALyY/
12:53 PM fragalot: gregcnc: gotta love those hit'n'miss engines
12:53 PM fragalot: no fuss, get the job done as inefficiently as humanly possible
12:54 PM gloops: get it going - then do ALL your drilling before letting it stop
12:55 PM rmu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darvaza_gas_crater
12:56 PM CaptHindsight: pour water down the hole, put up some of those steam windmills
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: power for a lifetime
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: Soviet engineers, my favorite!
12:58 PM fragalot: so THAT is what they mean by geothermal energy
12:58 PM fragalot: we've been going about this all wrong boys
01:01 PM rmu: this is proper geothermal energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor in gabon, central africa
01:04 PM fragalot: Neat.
01:06 PM Loetmichel: rmu: thats dead for a few millenia though IIRC
01:09 PM fragalot: well this is disappointing
01:09 PM fragalot: bought some talisker skye single malt scotch whisky
01:09 PM fragalot: it's not.. nice.
01:10 PM gloops: not going to drink it then fragalot?
01:10 PM fragalot: give it to the guests, hope they're polite enough to drink it without complaining
01:10 PM fragalot: feed 'm some story about how this is from the only distillery on the isle of skye
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: not a fan of Islay? peat and smoke?
01:11 PM fragalot: the smokey peat is a bit too much
01:11 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: ever tried laphoraig? ;)
01:11 PM fragalot: it's not subtle, it's right there in your face, might as well go suck on an empty bbq fueled by car tires
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: then you probably won't enjoy Ardbeg, Lagavulin or Laphroaig
01:12 PM fragalot: ardberg is alright, not as "in your face" as this one
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: i call it heaven in an ash tray
01:12 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: thats what i meant ;)
01:12 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: that is quite an apt description, haha
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: my favorite flavors :)
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: it's funny when somebody asks for a good scotch to try and someone points at what I'm drinking
01:14 PM gloops: did lostinsip get that machine he was looking at?
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: i usually suggest a starter scotch like balvenie
01:14 PM gloops: piranha
01:14 PM SpeedEvil: irn bru.
01:14 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: Laphoraig had a customer qoute on their website: "drinking it is like getting kicked in the face by a horse that ran hours of peaty fields... and totally liking it!"
01:14 PM fragalot: i'm more of a cardhu or aultimore guy I guess
01:14 PM Loetmichel: or something to that extent
01:15 PM Loetmichel: and he is right, that describes it pretty well...
01:15 PM Loetmichel: i am a weakling though and use some ice in my glass
01:16 PM fragalot: nothing wrong with that
01:16 PM fragalot: water down to personal taste
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: drink what you like
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: how you like
01:16 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15469
01:16 PM Loetmichel: because of "cask strengh" ;)
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: just keep the light beer and IPA away from me
01:16 PM fragalot: IPA is awful
01:16 PM fragalot: absolutely disgusting
01:17 PM Loetmichel: that stuff has 58%vol
01:17 PM Loetmichel: undiluted its just tasting like nedicine
01:17 PM Loetmichel: -n+m
01:17 PM fragalot: ok this skye stuff is slowly growing on me
01:18 PM Loetmichel: watered down a bit there is a lot of flavor emerging suddenly
01:18 PM fragalot: once you get used to the ashtray, as CaptHindsight describes it, lol
01:18 PM gloops: i dont like watering stuff down, vodka is all you need really
01:19 PM Loetmichel: vodka is for getting drunk, its tasteless
01:19 PM gloops: there is a big gin fad here atm
01:19 PM Loetmichel: a good whiskey is to be savoured and rolled around
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: Islay Storm is $20/750ml here
01:19 PM fragalot: this bottle was €52
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.bourbonbanter.com/drink/drink-reviews/scotch-whiskey-reviews/islay-storm-single-malt-scotch-whisky-review/#.XG2ny8Z7lhE
01:20 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: i paid 120€ for that bottle of laphoraig
01:20 PM gloops: £30 a bottle here
01:20 PM Loetmichel: and that was an auction of a pub that closed down
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: yes, it's on the higher priced side
01:20 PM Loetmichel: its usually more ;)
01:21 PM Loetmichel: totally worth it imho though
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: Ardbeg 10 is my usual
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: Islay Storm since it costs so little as is great
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: i understand the older stuff but it loses some of what I tend to like
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: not worth the extra $$ to me
01:25 PM CaptHindsight: http://whiskyadvocate.com/most-heavily-peated-whiskies-peatiest/
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: what i call poison http://whiskyadvocate.com/ratings-reviews/?search=&submit=&brand_id=190
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: Amrut Indian Whisky
01:44 PM roycroft: islay storm is decent stuff, but i'm also a big fan oaf ardbeg 10
01:45 PM roycroft: i keep some lagavuli in stock as well
01:45 PM roycroft: and usually there's a bottle of laphroaig hanging around - i have friends who like to gift me with laphroaigh
01:45 PM roycroft: i don't complain
01:46 PM gloops: in the blind trials for gin here, the Aldi brand wins every time
01:46 PM roycroft: although it's not my favorate islay scotch, it's still good stuff and one should not a gift horse in the mouth
01:46 PM roycroft: especially when it's delicious
01:47 PM roycroft: for something a little different, though, i like oban a lot
01:47 PM roycroft: it's a highland scotch
01:47 PM roycroft: but it is a bit peaty
01:49 PM SpeedEvil: On the hydraulic press channel have they ever done repeated folding - of say copper with tin - to get bronze?
01:50 PM gloops: it would never be bronze would it?
01:52 PM SpeedEvil: Sure. Once you fold it enough that the folds are smaller than an atom.
01:52 PM SpeedEvil: - some 40 times.
01:52 PM gloops: the acid test would be, if you melt it down, can you seperate it again
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: what! no Bowmore? :P
02:12 PM * Tom_L quietly steps into the back of the bar and takes a seat
02:13 PM * Jymmm sends a pitcher to Tom_L's table
02:14 PM * Tom_L pours some in a tin cup and watches the cup dissolve
02:15 PM gloops: beer before wine - youll feel fine
02:15 PM gloops: wine before beer makes you feel queer
02:15 PM Tom_L: dare you jeer in here!
02:16 PM gloops: nobody ever seems to do any machining in here lol
02:17 PM Tom_L: maybe that's why archivist left
02:17 PM SpeedEvil: Hydraulic presses are machine tools too!
02:18 PM gloops: funny about archivist, he left the electronics channels as well and took down his servers with a lifetimes archives
02:18 PM Tom_L: odd
02:19 PM fragalot: decided it was time to go back to the coal mines
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: we answer any noobs questions
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: often more thoroughly than they wanted
02:20 PM Tom_L: hasn't been an awful lot goin on lately
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: i prefer designing and building machines to using them
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: way too noisy
02:22 PM Tom_L: i'd rather be in a room full of machines than a room full of women
02:22 PM * SpeedEvil has been playing with large battery charger/battery/solar designs.
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: aren't working on writing thread forming routines?
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: aren't you
02:23 PM Tom_L: finished
02:23 PM SpeedEvil: (~12kW/8kWh/3kW charger.
02:23 PM Tom_L: only so many ways you can spin a helix...
02:23 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: as in rapid charging?
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: ichs waiting until after he was dead to take down everything
02:24 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: 5th dimension helix?????
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: archivist is just being proactive :)
02:24 PM SpeedEvil: Jymmm: few hours to charge a 8kWh battery from generator as backup at near full throttle on a 3kW generator.
02:25 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: what kind of battery / configuration?
02:25 PM SpeedEvil: 18650*several
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: at least a dozen
02:26 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: unprotected?
02:26 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, results: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Smartcam/ThreadMill.mcl
02:26 PM SpeedEvil: Jymmm: 4s*4p modules seperately protected and then fused together.
02:27 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: Individual cell monitoring too?
02:27 PM SpeedEvil: Jymmm: No.
02:27 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: Still, nice. HAve you seen that 30KW setup on youtube?
02:28 PM SpeedEvil: Nope. Designing for simplicity and safety.
02:28 PM gloops: i think one of Ichs machines scanned him at molecular level and reconstructed him as a signal inside a mach3 BOB
02:28 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: HE uses some computering monitoring/logging
02:29 PM SpeedEvil: Jymmm: 50C thermal fuses help, as well as adequate isolation to cope with a cooking off pack.
02:30 PM Jymmm: SpeedEvil: I would be interested is seeing data if you plan on collecting any
02:31 PM SpeedEvil: Jymmm: I may eventually add per-subpack current monitoring.
02:32 PM SpeedEvil: But, per-cell tells me little of interest that per-pack temperature from IR occasionally + whole pack performance does.
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: Galaxy Fold , phone unfolds to a 7" tablet
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/PIBmy9T_sfc?t=63
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: no visible seam in the video
02:36 PM SpeedEvil: neat
02:36 PM SpeedEvil: And it's only the price of two tablets and two phones.
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: yeah :)
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: well in a few years $200
02:38 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: lasts for up to 200 folds.
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: wonder what the durability is now
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: outside at -5C
02:40 PM fragalot: at least one
02:40 PM fragalot: note how they didn't fold & unfold a lot in the demo :D
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: if the two sides still work, it's still a sucess
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPSyw0mtzWg Chinese automation
02:52 PM fragalot: ItWorks(tm)
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: how they make the dovetails for Tormach https://youtu.be/rPSyw0mtzWg?t=139
02:54 PM fragalot: I was thinking the same thing about my old RF45 :D
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: much of that video is how to do things without a concern for safety
02:57 PM fragalot: or quality for one or 2 things
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: why your parts look like they were stored on a dirty floor, well because they were made on one as well
02:58 PM fragalot: you'd be hard pressed to automate something faster than some of these workers are doing it, lol
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: check out 6:00
02:59 PM fragalot: it gets better
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: workers wanted, 9 fingers or more required
03:10 PM XXCoder: so safe. lkol
03:11 PM fragalot: that micrometer at 5:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfDUHGKuXwU
03:12 PM XXCoder: so many ways to get rid of inconvient fingers.
03:13 PM fragalot: or convenient fingers. the machines aren't fussy
03:14 PM XXCoder: 5:10 dang insane
03:16 PM XXCoder: crazy stuff, but swapping parts while its going up and down is worse
03:26 PM XXCoder: fragalot: interesing video
03:26 PM XXCoder: also saw maching to make barrels also. interesting
03:28 PM XXCoder: fragalot: omg the mic. the mic to rule all
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: chicken feet powered https://youtu.be/rPSyw0mtzWg?t=515
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: why the claws?
03:32 PM XXCoder: probably more effiecent on moving whatever in
03:32 PM XXCoder: stuff isnt shown spo dunno what its made to move.
03:33 PM XXCoder: video shows basically only one guy doing specific task, then at 9:30 theres what 8 people watching LOL
03:58 PM Deejay: gn8
04:34 PM Jymmm: YAY, landline AND internet are back
05:05 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: you have really had a sting of outages... heat, phone, internet
05:05 PM CaptHindsight: sting/string
05:07 PM ItsFlipp_: Man, I'm _still_ having trouble with heat buildup with 6061 :(
05:07 PM CaptHindsight: welding or cutting
05:07 PM ItsFlipp_: Part getting hot enough to actually boil the mist coolant I'm using
05:07 PM ItsFlipp_: no welding AFAICT
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: are you rubbing vs cutting?
05:08 PM ItsFlipp_: Brand new ZrN 2 flute had the same issue as my old YG-1
05:08 PM ItsFlipp_: I don't believe so. Chips are clearing just fine, and surface finish looks alright
05:08 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: electricity too, but have the dual fuel gen that I love
05:08 PM ItsFlipp_: I've tried 0.001, 0.0015, and 0.0027 IPT with similar results
05:09 PM ItsFlipp_: I'm tempted to just let the mist coolant go wiiiiiiide open and see if it's simply that I'm not providing enough
05:10 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: I'm still working on tapping into the 250gallon propane tank as well, Just incase the seven 5gal tanks I have go empty
05:10 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: don't drill it until its empty
05:11 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: What, I might start a wildfire or soemthing???
05:11 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: you already had fires, what are the odds of another one? :)
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: ItsFlipp_: what is the tool dia? speed and feed rate used?
05:12 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: After 150,000 acres, eh, not sure
05:13 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: what is left to burn?
05:13 PM ItsFlipp_: Tried with two 1/4 inch 2 flute, one bright and one ZrN coated
05:13 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: have any pics? does it look like an alien landscape?
05:14 PM Jymmm: https://i.imgur.com/eHbSDr4.png
05:14 PM ItsFlipp_: I've tried 8400RPM@40 IPM (~0.002X IPT)
05:15 PM ItsFlipp_: and 10k@20 IPM (~0.001 IPT)
05:16 PM ItsFlipp_: Chip evac is solid, chips go flyin' away in a nice stream
05:17 PM ItsFlipp_: Cut parameters are ~.45" DOC, 25% WOC (0.0625")
05:18 PM ItsFlipp_: Adaptive (HSM) toolpath from fusion
05:21 PM ItsFlipp_: To me that seems like a bit of an aggressive cut, but GWizard suggests going gangbusters at something like 10k@109 IPM
05:21 PM ItsFlipp_: which comes out to like 0.0055 IPT O.o
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: .45" DOC with 0.25" dia tool?
05:30 PM ItsFlipp_: Flute length is 1", and GWiz suggests deflection is < 0.0001
05:32 PM ItsFlipp_: ack, scratch that. 0.75" flute length, and stickout is ~0.9"
05:37 PM jthornton: carbide or HSS?
05:37 PM ItsFlipp_: ZrN coated carbide, 2fl
05:38 PM jthornton: if 6061 is getting hot your chips are too small
05:39 PM jthornton: you have to "pull" the heat from the cut out with the chip
05:39 PM Tom_L: ItsFlipp, you didn't mistakenly get left hand cutters did you ? :)
05:40 PM ItsFlipp_: jthornton: Yeah, that's what I've seen in steel; the chip turns slightly yellow (with blue being too hot)
05:40 PM ItsFlipp_: Tom_L: That'd sure explain it ;) but naw, got normal ones
05:40 PM jthornton: same in aluminum if your chip is too small then your rubbing which makes even more heat
05:41 PM Tom_L: i brought that up because i've actually seen it happen
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: or spindle is going backward
05:41 PM ItsFlipp_: jthornton: I'm not sure what to look for in alu chips though
05:41 PM jthornton: if the part is cool to the touch the chips are large enough
05:42 PM ItsFlipp_: Don't have a picture of any handy, but the chips seem to look "alright" (for whatever that's worth)
05:42 PM jthornton: 6061 is a bit gummy compared to 7075 so you can't take a small deep cut
05:42 PM jthornton: if the mist is boiling off then the part is too hot
05:42 PM ItsFlipp_: jthornton: yeah, the part gets hot enough to flash boil the mist coolant O.o
05:42 PM ItsFlipp_: clearly I'm doin' something way wrong :C
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: depth of cut for .25" dia > 1x gets me broken tools
05:42 PM jthornton: chip too small
05:43 PM jthornton: yea too deep small chip load
05:43 PM Tom_L: .250" cutter?
05:43 PM ItsFlipp_: .25" carbide ZrN 2fl
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: yes
05:43 PM Tom_L: yeah that's too deep for that cutter
05:44 PM ItsFlipp_: really? hmm, interesting
05:44 PM Tom_L: the yt i showed you was full width cuts at ~.1-.125 iirc
05:44 PM Tom_L: maybe more
05:45 PM ItsFlipp_: jthornton: what's a typical IPT for 6061?
05:45 PM Tom_L: but on my machine i was going ~.001" chipload
05:45 PM Tom_L: ItsFlipp, depends on the machine really
05:46 PM Tom_L: i've heard as high as .006-.008" chip load on a big machine
05:46 PM ItsFlipp_: Tom_L: yeah, that makes sense. Less LOC = smaller chips
05:46 PM ItsFlipp_: I'm running a 1.5HP tormach, so not terribly beefy
05:46 PM jthornton: hmm I don't have my mill calculator down here it seems
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: https://daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/Feed-Rate-Calculator.phtml
05:47 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUDHCXu4Pwo
05:47 PM Tom_L: look at 4:40
05:47 PM jthornton: ItsFlipp_: all the charts and stuff are guides you still have to tweak them to your machine and the material
05:48 PM Tom_L: i wish i'd have had 2 vises for that part
05:50 PM Tom_L: zeeshan was a fan of thin deep cuts
05:50 PM Tom_L: claims quicker material removal @ less load
05:51 PM ItsFlipp_: jthornton: Sure, sure. It's just that I'm finding a bit of conflicting info at times. that daycounter.com Capt linked suggests 280 sfm for 6061, while Niagara's website suggests 800-2000
05:52 PM Tom_L: niagra sells cutters.
05:52 PM ItsFlipp_: e.g. Niagara suggests 0.002 IPT for a 1/4", which was what I tried
05:52 PM ItsFlipp_: yeah, have a few of 'em :)
05:52 PM Tom_L: they like to show off their stuff
05:52 PM jthornton: sfm is a guide as well and that depends very much on machine capabilities, I machine 6061 at 200SFM on my BP just because that's all she's got
05:53 PM jthornton: 0.002 IPT for a 1/4" sounds ok to me but the proof is in the pudding, is the part cool...
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: https://littlemachineshop.com/mobile/speeds_feeds.php
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: have to see what SFM works for you
05:55 PM Tom_L: ItsFlipp, my spindle is only .6hp :)
05:55 PM Tom_L: otherwise chips'd be flyin out the back door
05:56 PM jthornton: custompartnet is a good calculator for starting numbers
05:56 PM Tom_L: fswizzard is decent too
05:57 PM Tom_L: i keep it on my phone but generally rely on the cad cam calcs
05:57 PM jthornton: ItsFlipp_: I learned how to weld 6061 to an end mill first...
05:57 PM ItsFlipp_: Haha, yeah, I learned that a while ago :)
05:57 PM Tom_L: ur not supposed to weld steel to aluminum...
05:58 PM jthornton: yes you are, how do you think they make aluminum super structures for ships? they have a steel/aluminum strip that is welded together
05:58 PM Tom_L: huh, really?
05:58 PM ItsFlipp_: So FSWizard suggests 10k@80 IPM (?!)
05:59 PM Tom_L: so change the rpm to what you can do and maintain the chipload
05:59 PM jthornton: yea, it's like 2" wide at the joint and 1/4" wide at the end
05:59 PM Tom_L: what filler metal?
06:00 PM jthornton: dunno looked like aluminum to steel to me
06:00 PM * jthornton used to work in a shipyard building destroyers and overhauling subs
06:00 PM ItsFlipp_: Do they stir weld it?
06:00 PM jthornton: I think it is a pressure weld
06:02 PM jthornton: ItsFlipp_: what Tom_L said rpm is SFM and chipload is IPM so adjust them to fit your machine
06:03 PM ItsFlipp_: Yup
06:04 PM ItsFlipp_: but to be clear: if the 6061 part is getting warm/hot, increase IPT?
06:04 PM jthornton: you might have to lower DOC to get chipload without breaking a 1/4" end mill
06:04 PM jthornton: yes
06:06 PM jthornton: I like Lakeshore Carbide end mills
06:07 PM jthornton: the vari-flute for alum is awesome
06:07 PM ItsFlipp_: Heard of them on Saunders' channel
06:08 PM ItsFlipp_: A coworker swears by SpeedTiger
06:08 PM jthornton: T-6 for the automagical chicken door to close :)
06:10 PM jthornton: Tom_L: you getting more rain tomorrow? we are getting it friday and saturday
06:10 PM Tom_L: the chicken door has had more code changes lately than linuxcnc
06:10 PM jthornton: yep lol
06:11 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure, i haven't seen the forecast yet
06:11 PM jthornton: I think I have the new door ready to install now, it auto starts at boot up and it tries twice to open/close
06:12 PM jthornton: so I'm happy with the code now
06:12 PM jthornton: I'm thinking I can get out to my buddy's property and cut some firewood tomorrow if his field is not too wet from yesterday
06:13 PM Tom_L: snow is pretty much gone now though
06:13 PM jthornton: I think the cold is starting to wind down here
06:13 PM Tom_L: certainly hope so
06:14 PM Tom_L: i suppose i could work out a macro now for external threads
06:15 PM jthornton: got my seeds from Baker Creek the other day so time to get ready for planting https://www.rareseeds.com/
06:15 PM asdfasd1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoOWi1r6-Eo
06:15 PM asdfasd1: Published on Dec 28, 2007
06:15 PM asdfasd1: robot controlled by emc2 (linuxcnc)
06:16 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure where my neighbor used to get her seeds but she was always coming up with something different
06:16 PM jthornton: Baker Creek has everything you can think of and then some lol
06:17 PM jthornton: both chicken doors are down... time for chow
06:19 PM CaptHindsight: still freezin up here
06:19 PM CaptHindsight: not even thinking about planting yet
06:20 PM * Jymmm install a secret chicken-speak door opener
06:20 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: looks eerie
06:20 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: how big is your lot?
06:21 PM CaptHindsight: ~ 4ft x 20ft with shrubs and two ac units
06:21 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/eQ1ZZh0.png
06:21 PM CaptHindsight: the rest is asphalt
06:22 PM CaptHindsight: post apocalyptic
06:22 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/o1z9uaZ.png
06:22 PM Jymmm: war zone
06:22 PM Jymmm: I have many more photos, just not posted
06:22 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: is that your before or after? :p
06:23 PM CaptHindsight: i see farms out here that look like that
06:23 PM Jymmm: I'll have to look back to see how many "before' I actually have
06:23 PM Jymmm: That was a surplus store actually
06:23 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: was the last pic a house or whats left of it?
06:24 PM Jymmm: surplus store
06:24 PM CaptHindsight: looks like some brick lower right corner
06:24 PM Jymmm: lots camping, gold panning, gear, etc
06:24 PM CaptHindsight: steel building?
06:25 PM Jymmm: No, yeah brick, we have LOTS of fireplaces and wood stoves in this area
06:25 PM CaptHindsight: or all wood and there some corrugated materials scattered about
06:25 PM Jymmm: not steel bldg
06:25 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: do the larger trees survive?
06:26 PM Jymmm: Won't know till spring, but doubtful
06:27 PM Jymmm: There are tree companies as far a NC here
06:27 PM CaptHindsight: salvageba;e as any lumber or just toasted mulch?
06:27 PM CaptHindsight: salvageable even
06:41 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Anything smaller than 6" is being trashed, the trees are being turned into lumber. This is forestry area, and lots of lumber mills
07:19 PM MacGalempsy: good evening
07:52 PM Tom_itx: http://www.carbidedepot.com/resources.htm
07:52 PM Tom_itx: good resource for various tool & machining data
08:52 PM hazzy-m: are subs not verified to be within machine limits before running?
08:54 PM hazzy-m: just ended up on a limit switch at 300ipm, thankfully it stopped fast enough to not hit the hard limit
08:55 PM Tom_L: not sure
08:57 PM hazzy-m: LCNC is so good at checking that the program fits within limits that I am spoiled
08:58 PM hazzy-m: I guess it would be hard to check subs since they can change dynamically as they execute
09:02 PM Tom_L: it's not a perfect world
09:05 PM cradek: hazzy-m: being in a sub isn't what caused that
09:06 PM cradek: hazzy-m: (from memory) certain arcs aren't checked fully for soft limit violations, I wonder if that's what caused your surprise
09:10 PM hazzy-m: cradek: ah, interesting, the sub was a single G2 arc
09:16 PM skunkworks: Yes - i have run machines into hard limits because of that..
09:16 PM skunkworks: It only checks endpoints.
09:17 PM skunkworks: So an arc can have both endpoints within the soft limits - but the actual motion can be outside
09:54 PM hazzy-m: skunkworks: Thanks! Thanks makes sense
11:05 PM skunkworks: i think there is a bug report based on it