#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 13 2019

01:56 AM Deejay: moin
02:05 AM sensille: morning
02:06 AM Deejay: :)
02:19 AM sensille: Loetmichel: did you configure the drivers to 3A instead of the default 2.5A?
02:21 AM Loetmichel: nope
02:21 AM Loetmichel: the motors overheat if you do that
02:22 AM Loetmichel: i DID wind up the voltage of the PSU to 28 or so volts though
02:23 AM Loetmichel: i also only use 1/8 microstepping because at 1/16 my PC cant generate steps fast enough for high G0 speeds
02:24 AM sensille: i tried 1/16th and can go up to 1400mm/min. i think the problem are the drivers, not the PC
02:25 AM sensille: as i use 1200mm/min as feed normally, it should be fine
02:25 AM sensille: although it makes me impatient
02:25 AM sensille: but the moves are much smoother
02:30 AM gloops: cheapest way to confirm that is tb6600 the new improved version
02:30 AM gloops: theyre about £8 each
02:31 AM sensille: are they pin compatible?
02:31 AM gloops: how do you mean?
02:32 AM Loetmichel: gloops: the CNC 6040 comes usually with TB6560
02:32 AM Loetmichel: not 6600
02:32 AM gloops: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XSBB45M/ref=asc_df_B06XSBB45M58476898/?tag=googshopuk-21&creative=22146&creativeASIN=B06XSBB45M&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310857088552&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13704784231397917766&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006627&hvtargid=pla-302821011531
02:32 AM sensille: the 3 6560 are on a board. to swap them it would be easiest to replace them on the board
02:32 AM gloops: the 6550 is inferior
02:32 AM gloops: right so the 6560 are integrated
02:33 AM gloops: i dont know how youd fit the 6600s in then, ive never tried
02:33 AM Loetmichel: thats how the boards look: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17238&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:33 AM sensille: more Vm probably doesn't matter at 1500mm/min
02:34 AM Loetmichel: (inside the driver box of my "new" 6040
02:34 AM Loetmichel: )
02:34 AM Loetmichel: sensille: mine moves at F3800 now... there you need the high step rate from the PC
02:35 AM Loetmichel: at 1200/1400 i doubt its the PC that is the problem ;)
02:35 AM sensille: with 1/16th
02:35 AM Loetmichel: more likely the dead slow opto couplers
02:35 AM Loetmichel: on that board
02:36 AM Loetmichel: i desoldered them and bridged them
02:36 AM sensille: the datasheet of the 6560 says something about 15kHz
02:36 AM Loetmichel: makes one hell of a difference
02:36 AM gloops: i get 5000mm/min on a dinosaur PC - i had up to 15000mm on the old machine
02:36 AM gloops: sensille yes cant handle the input pulse
02:36 AM Loetmichel: gloops: at which step/mm?
02:37 AM gloops: i cant remember without looking at the config - 1600 steps i think
02:37 AM sensille: so how can the optocouplers make a difference, if i already reach the driver limit with them?
02:41 AM gloops: its like anything though, you start upgrading one thing, you end up building a new machine
02:41 AM sensille: i already fear that
02:41 AM gloops: next thing bigger motors, stronger bearings, new gantry etc
02:41 AM sensille: that's why i'm trying to be content with F1400
02:42 AM sensille: but i alread want all of that
02:42 AM gloops: those drivers are known to be inferior though, i think some improvement would be seen if they were changed
02:42 AM sensille: and more travel in Z
02:42 AM gloops: up to the next bottleneck in the design
02:43 AM Loetmichel: sensille: the driver chips CAN do faster. if they get a reasonably strong signal
02:43 AM sensille: in my other project i'm building a controller for a 3d printer, fpga based. i hope to use that for the cnc, too, when it's done
02:43 AM sensille: Loetmichel: will try that
02:44 AM Loetmichel: as i said: my old machine does F4200 at G0. the new one a bit slower, may change when all the ballscrews and linear ways are "run in"
02:45 AM sensille: so i can expect to reach F2400 at least with 1/16th
02:45 AM Loetmichel: FPGA for a 3dprinter? isnt that a bit "shooting cannons on sparrows"?
02:45 AM sensille: erm. F2100
02:45 AM Loetmichel: the FPGA alone is already more expensive than a cheap complete printer ;)
02:45 AM sensille: no, that's exactly what they need
02:45 AM sensille: the fpga is <$10
02:46 AM Loetmichel: nice
02:46 AM Loetmichel: last time i looked into FPGAs they were $200++ depending on size ;)
02:46 AM sensille: i did testruns with a steprate of 6MHz
02:47 AM sensille: Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRmgpJZwEoM
02:47 AM Loetmichel: gloops: i made one machine that could do F15000 for a coworker. it had Steel cables on alu drums as drive though, no ballscrews..
02:47 AM Loetmichel: frightening when it moves full speed... ;)
02:48 AM gloops: that one i made used bike chain lol, rather fast gearing, it wouldnt cut sh^t
02:48 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10465&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:48 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYgyqjHCBLg
02:48 AM Loetmichel: :-)
02:49 AM gloops: i think youre probably looking at 3500-7500mm/min realistically with steppers
02:49 AM gloops: for a machine that cuts anyway
02:49 AM Loetmichel: depends on the cutting forces ;)
02:49 AM gloops: that looks pretty good Loetmichel!
02:50 AM Loetmichel: that dremel/proxxon on that machine would stall pretty easily anyways
02:50 AM gloops: might be ok for some things, hard foam etc
02:51 AM Loetmichel: it did sheet alu reasonably well
02:51 AM Loetmichel: you just had to be frugal on the DOC ;)
02:51 AM Loetmichel: 0,1mm was the absolute max
02:51 AM Loetmichel: and its resolution was only 50steps/mm
02:51 AM Loetmichel: so not that precise
02:52 AM Loetmichel: but for model hobby it was ok
02:52 AM gloops: yeah, there was someone in here recently who was cutting 10mm ally with an xcarve allegedly, using adaptive milling - never got to see the vids though
02:52 AM gloops: 10 cut with the side of the tool
02:53 AM gloops: 10mm
02:53 AM * Loetmichel just has a 12mm thick alu sheet on the 6040... runing big pockets into it with a 6mm two flute bit...
02:53 AM Loetmichel: takes ages ;)
02:53 AM Loetmichel: at 0.15mm DOC ;)
02:54 AM gloops: worth looking at the milling strategies with a slow machine, its another way to gain efficiency and save time
02:54 AM Loetmichel: 9mm deep pockets to boot ;)
02:54 AM Loetmichel: 6040 arent slow. but weak
02:54 AM Loetmichel: you cant have big forces or the gantry torsions
02:54 AM sensille: Loetmichel: yesterday i had the problem that the bolts holding the ballscrew nut were loose. did you have that problem?
02:55 AM Loetmichel: so low DOC, fast movement it is ;)
02:55 AM gloops: fill it with resin concrete or something
02:55 AM Loetmichel: sensille: nope
02:55 AM gloops: reduce vibes
02:55 AM Loetmichel: gloops: wont help. the "gantry" is unsupported 20mm rails. there IS nothing to fill it with ;)
02:55 AM Loetmichel: no holes i mean
02:55 AM gloops: sensille when theyre tight put another washer and another nut on them
02:56 AM sensille: i don't think they come out on the other side
02:57 AM gloops: ahh, mine are drilled flanges
02:57 AM gloops: the unsupported rails would be a subject for upgrading i think
02:59 AM sensille: Loetmichel: so what do you think is the weakest part of the machine? the gantry in Y direction? (Y being the shorter axis for me)
03:06 AM Loetmichel: sensille: yes
03:07 AM Loetmichel: the gantry "tilts" in the longer axis because the unupported rails can twist
03:07 AM Loetmichel: more in the middle of the movement than at the sides though
03:08 AM Loetmichel: an upgrade would be to put a 120*50 rectangular tube on the back of the gantry and swap the unsupported rails for supported ones
03:08 AM Loetmichel: THEN you also have something to fill with sand ;)
03:08 AM Loetmichel: or concrete
03:09 AM Loetmichel: problem with that is that the sled on the gantry is a single part for the X ballscrew nut and the 4 20mm linear bnearings
03:09 AM Loetmichel: so that has to be machined to accept the SBR sleds
03:10 AM sensille: sorry, what are the unsupported rails?
03:13 AM sensille: ah, the rods?
03:15 AM sensille: so the basic idea is to swap them for sbr
03:18 AM gloops: even 12mm supported rails will be far stronger than unsupported
03:21 AM gloops: if you could mill the flat strip, you could even add support to the existing rails, if you can get sbr blocks the right size
03:23 AM sensille: are rods also called rails?
03:24 AM sensille: i'm having a bit of a trouble following, also because i'm currently not at the machine to look for details
03:24 AM sensille: (why do i have this day job again?)
03:25 AM gloops: still called rails - but unsupported
03:26 AM gloops: your rails have only their own strength, supported rails are bolted to a beam - the beam provides the strength
03:26 AM sensille: ok, then i see the problem now. i could measure deflection of the spindle in each direction to confirm
03:27 AM gloops: if you can press on the bottom of the spindle and z axis moves, youve got problems
03:28 AM sensille: is there an easy way to calculate the forces on the endmill/spindle with a given material, end mill, feed rate, spindle speed, stepdown?
03:28 AM gloops: there are formulas and calculators, nobody seems really sure
03:29 AM gloops: it takes about 12lbs to push a hand router through wood
03:29 AM gloops: if you try pushing it at 10000mm/min youll need more force obviously
03:31 AM gloops: cutting behaviour gives a clue, chattery noisy - deflection or backlash
03:32 AM Loetmichel: sensille:just swap them wouldnt help though
03:32 AM Loetmichel: you need something sturdy to mount the supports to ;)
03:33 AM Loetmichel: and no, there is no "formula" that isnt heavily idealized.
03:33 AM gloops: id probably take the components you have, screws etc, and design a new gantry around them
03:34 AM Loetmichel: because if your cutter is getting a bit dull that already has a bigger impact on forces than a lot of the other parameters that can be measured
03:35 AM gloops: you look at an industrial mill, you cant get anything to move with hand force, you can swing on it and it wont bend or flex
03:35 AM gloops: thats the difference
03:36 AM Loetmichel: gloops / sensille : you can kind of SEE how the machine gantry twists on the milling pattern here: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17171&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
03:36 AM Loetmichel: moving -x its a few though lower than moving x+
03:37 AM Loetmichel: thou
03:37 AM Loetmichel: the whole "z assembly" tilts
03:37 AM Loetmichel: slightly
03:37 AM sensille: Loetmichel: what is X for you? the longer axis?
03:37 AM Loetmichel: the longer
03:38 AM Loetmichel: i sit on the "side" of the machine, so x is left/right y is front/back in that picture
03:38 AM sensille: ok, same for me
03:39 AM sensille: i think the original wiring is different
03:39 AM Loetmichel: it is
03:39 AM Loetmichel: i didnt rewire it
03:39 AM Loetmichel: just swapped the pins in the software ;)
03:39 AM sensille: just swapped the plugs :)
03:39 AM Loetmichel: that works also ;)
03:40 AM Loetmichel: yeah, the machine is configured to sit on the small side
03:41 AM Loetmichel: "front" is meant to be where you can look at the gantry and spindle right ahead
03:41 AM sensille: i got G38.2 working and use it for position probing, very happy with the results: https://i.imgur.com/PYdNRaB.jpg
03:41 AM sensille: adding fillets to the back side
03:46 AM gloops: my gantry bends and its 60x40 heavy steel box https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf5p-7VZmcs
03:48 AM sensille: well everything bends, that's why it would be nice to know the forces involved
03:49 AM sensille: can you mill steel with it?
03:50 AM gloops: nope, well never tried but it wont
03:52 AM sensille: probably much easier to build a small machine for steel
03:53 AM sensille: like 20x15cm
03:54 AM gloops: yeah smaller is much easier to achieve, small levers
03:54 AM gloops: some have tried in here to make steel mills, patchy results
03:57 AM gloops: well i suppose i better think about getting to it, the mrs wants to see some products off this thing haha
03:58 AM gloops: i got two silverline 12 inch saw blades arrive this morning, £20 for the 2
03:58 AM gloops: slightly dubious about standing in front of these spinning at 2500 rpm
04:06 AM Loetmichel: gloops: i hope it doesent BEND but rather just flexes :)
04:07 AM Loetmichel: also it would have been useful to use ONE 300mm by 60mm rectangular tube than two 60 by 60 square ones.
04:07 AM Loetmichel: MUCH more rigid
04:07 AM Loetmichel: while not more room wasted
04:07 AM gloops: well im off
04:08 AM sensille: or add a panel
04:08 AM Loetmichel: two panels
04:08 AM Loetmichel: one wouldnt help rigidness
04:08 AM Loetmichel: you need a "box"
04:09 AM sensille: depending on the flexing direction
04:09 AM Loetmichel: yes
04:09 AM Loetmichel: for torsion you need walls on both sides
04:09 AM Loetmichel: an I-beam is just rigid vertically
04:10 AM Loetmichel: an [] beam is rigid in every direction
04:10 AM Loetmichel: at least a lot more rigid than two beams like :
04:11 AM sensille: hm, if the torsion is the problem with our machine, wouldn't it be best to move the workpiece as high as possible? to reduce the lever of the spindle
04:11 AM sensille: s/move/mount
04:12 AM sensille: it should help a ton
04:14 AM rmu: make a final pass cuting from one direction, and then a spring pass
04:16 AM sensille: rmu: what cam are you using?
04:17 AM jthornton: morning
04:17 AM rmu: emacs, freecad, fusion, and some self-cooked stuff
04:18 AM sensille: in fusion a "spring passes" is just "multiple finishing passes", right?
04:19 AM Loetmichel: a spring pass is a second pass with the same cutting depth as last one
04:20 AM Loetmichel: so an "empty" pass that just cuts away any "torsion/flexing" caused inaccuacys
04:20 AM sensille: haven't seen that option in f360, but i think i can tell it to make multiple identical finishing passes
04:21 AM sensille: Loetmichel: would conventional milling or climb milling better for our machine?
04:22 AM Loetmichel: depends
04:22 AM Loetmichel: climb milling makes the cut slightly "larger", conventional slightly smaller, so a spring pass can cut something away
04:23 AM Loetmichel: i usually climb mill because it gives the better surface
05:02 AM Loetmichel: *MAAAN* coworkers... Just came into the workshop, see the coworker using the air gun to blow alu chips off the CNC router... "Be careful to not blow them into the VFD!" Havent really spoken the whole sentence: *PATZ*... Workshop dark and quiet... How do i get that new 15N120 IGBT _now_? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17292&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:03 AM XXCoder: sigh conductive chips..
05:04 AM XXCoder: maybe you can repair it
05:04 AM XXCoder: clean it first tho lol
05:05 AM XXCoder: some recifiers and some resistors blown off
05:05 AM XXCoder: ah and some very fried traces. hm
05:05 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: down below is the fault.
05:06 AM Loetmichel: the cut off transistor has arc marks... and is 0,0 ohms across all pins
05:09 AM XXCoder: yeah though seems only basic stuff were broken? can you replace em?
05:09 AM XXCoder: i didnt see any chips fried
05:10 AM Loetmichel: hopefully ist just the single dead transistor (scoll down, the cut off one with the arc marcs
05:10 AM XXCoder: yeah i misremembered the name of part lol
05:10 AM XXCoder: saiod it was recifier
05:11 AM Tom_L: 33�F Hi 59
05:11 AM Tom_L: morning
05:12 AM XXCoder: high 47 low 35f lol
05:12 AM XXCoder: rained most of day but still so much snow.
05:12 AM XXCoder: I had to shovel a lot to get my car in parking spot
05:12 AM Tom_L: it will melt and make mud
05:12 AM XXCoder: make mud out of mud?
05:25 AM jthornton: today will be nice here sunny and 55
05:26 AM XXCoder: nice
06:16 AM Deejay: re
06:26 AM Loetmichel: soo, mounted the VFD from the other mill... Spindle spins up... ALL steppers are "ghost turning"... i HATE cheap china VFDs... no filtering at ALL :-(
06:26 AM XXCoder: bleh
06:27 AM XXCoder: so its alive eh
06:27 AM XXCoder: is there anything that can clean it up?
06:27 AM XXCoder: ie get rid of noise
06:28 AM Loetmichel: a 3 phase LC filter would do the trick. if i had one
06:29 AM XXCoder: might need it if its affecting steppers
06:29 AM Loetmichel: yes
06:29 AM Loetmichel: not directly i suppose
06:30 AM Loetmichel: i think its going into the Stepper driver inputs
06:30 AM XXCoder: cleaning steppers data input?
06:30 AM sensille: is the input connected?
06:31 AM XXCoder: hm that;'d cancel data nm lol more like stepper controller power inputs? lol
06:33 AM XXCoder: oh yeah
06:34 AM XXCoder: Loetmichel: i saw people using caps on stepper controllers in order to prevent local brownouts
06:34 AM XXCoder: it was interesting but dunno if its worth doing on my tb6600s lol
06:34 AM XXCoder: but would it alos damp down noise?
06:35 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: not brownouts. The VFD has so much EMI outgoing that it couples into the step/dir wires from the PC to the Stepper driver box.
06:35 AM Loetmichel: its not the power
06:36 AM Loetmichel: its the step/dir lines that get "dirty"
06:36 AM XXCoder: ahh ok
06:36 AM XXCoder: I suppose would be better to just emi sheild vfd?
06:36 AM Loetmichel: yes
06:37 AM Loetmichel: or get a good german one that is "quiet" already ,)
06:37 AM XXCoder: yeah probably though my cnc router dont use vfd type
06:38 AM XXCoder: just basic pwm
06:39 AM Loetmichel: problem is that while those 3 phase spindles are great they need a special VFD setup
06:39 AM Loetmichel: because they are not "standard" ascnchronous motors for 50/60 hz
06:39 AM Loetmichel: they run up to 400Hz.
06:40 AM Loetmichel: a "standard" VFD will destroy them and/or be irritated and go "overcurrent" on low voltages
06:40 AM Loetmichel: low frequencys
06:41 AM jthornton: hot damn I finally got motioneye server back up and running
06:41 AM XXCoder: awesome hjt
06:46 AM Tom_L: nearly got my single point thread macro working
06:58 AM jthornton: for a lathe or mill?
07:53 AM PL7icnc: 1hr to go at bright sunnshine what a mess
08:41 AM pcw_home: Loetmichel: a common mode choke (giant ferrite bead) around (all 3) spindle motor wires can help a lot
08:56 AM Loetmichel: pcw_home: i got 5(!) giant common mode chokes ("klappferrite") on the spindle cable and the power cable each. waht helbed was to detach the Spindle on switch from the VFD. It seems the EMI carried over the shield of that cable back into the Stepper controller
08:57 AM rmu: Loetmichel: don't include the shield in the choke
08:57 AM Loetmichel: btw: got a piece of AlMg4,5Mn here that is the absolute horror to mill even with a specially ground "aluminium" 2 flute cutter... broke the off the 4th now from all that chattering.
08:58 AM Loetmichel: rmu: as i said: already solved it by disconnecting the spindle switch
08:58 AM ttuner is now known as toxx
08:58 AM Loetmichel: is it possible that that alloy is bad for milling or did the seller just gave us garbage?
08:59 AM rmu: IME it machines OKish
08:59 AM rmu: (3-flute zirkonium coated carbide cutters)
08:59 AM Loetmichel: so its possible that the (ebay) seller sold us crap?
09:00 AM Loetmichel: NEVER had that much of a problem with AlMg3 that i usually order
09:00 AM rmu: who buys aluminium on ebay
09:00 AM Loetmichel: coworker
09:01 AM rmu: chatter probably means wrong feed or bad workholding or lacking stiffness in machine
09:02 AM Loetmichel: all of that. but the same parameters work pretty well with AlMg3 from a "known good" source
09:03 AM rmu: is it already anodized?
09:04 AM Loetmichel: nope
09:04 AM Loetmichel: and that wouldnt matter because tungsten carbide cutters. can cut AlO2 just fine ;)
09:14 AM gloops: finally cutting again after the very very final mods to machine haha
09:15 AM gloops: the welder and tap and die set are back in their resting places
09:42 AM gloops: my hand built vertical table, with quick change camlock clamps, allows 4-8 box ends to be machined at once
09:42 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J82ggHEGOt4&feature=youtu.be
09:43 AM gloops: touch off once, whip 4 boards in, lever down - press run, repeat, obviously this code is pretty sluggish but just a test
09:55 AM gregcnc: loetmichel are you running that AlMg4.5Mn with coolant?
09:55 AM gregcnc: 5000 series tend to be sticky
10:05 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: both dry and with wd40
10:05 AM Loetmichel: no difference
10:05 AM Loetmichel: it smears like Al99.9
10:06 AM gregcnc: maybe you got dead soft vs hardened. it should be noted
10:09 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: ebay... i doubt the coworker that bought it looked for "hardened"
10:09 AM Loetmichel: and it came lasercut, not sawn off.. ,)
10:09 AM Loetmichel: (its 20mm thick)
10:10 AM gregcnc: send me some aluminum please, whatever you have will be fine.....
10:11 AM Loetmichel: something like that
10:11 AM Loetmichel: i warned him that some aluminium sorts dont mill well... thats what you get when you dont listen
10:11 AM Loetmichel: :-)
10:12 AM Loetmichel: he has to pay a new VFD AND has 3 plates of aluminium that are useless for milling ;)
10:12 AM gregcnc: don't you have prints which specify?
10:12 AM Loetmichel: was his private project
10:12 AM Loetmichel: i always specify AlMg3 sheet material when i send the boss to the metal dealer around the corner
10:13 AM Loetmichel: (he still manages to bring AlMg1 sometimes)
10:13 AM Loetmichel: (which is a PITA to mill, but still less "smearing" than the stuff the coworker brought)
10:41 AM rmu: AlMg4,5Mn should be hard
10:41 AM rmu: (no soft state AFAIK)
11:33 AM fragalot: evenin'
11:35 AM Deejay: hey there
12:23 PM Loetmichel: re from a coworkers home. "Just changining the exhaust of a 125cc bike because her son thought it funny to empty the mufflers and the police didnt like that."... easy... three broken PH2 bits later: MAAAN what a tool "quality" at the home improvement shop. The face of my coworker when i ripped off three bit tips in three consectuive screws was priceless though ;)
12:24 PM fragalot: the quality of bits really has gone down massively in the last few years
12:35 PM sensille: can i repair a small cut in aluminum by soldering? probably not with a soldering iron ...
12:36 PM fragalot: there exists specialty aluminium "brazing" rods
12:36 PM fragalot: all you need is a blowtorch
12:36 PM fragalot: I have mixed results with them though. sometimes it works out great, sometimes it just does not hold
12:37 PM sensille: or maybe i can just fill it with glue. wanted to give it to powder coating anyway
12:37 PM fragalot: if it's just for aethetics, fill it with baking powder & drip on some runny thin CA glue
12:39 PM sensille: it's 3mm wide though
12:39 PM sensille: why baking powder?
12:39 PM fragalot: acts as a filler, and as an accellerant
12:39 PM fragalot: the glue will set nearly instantly
12:41 PM sensille: so i should fill it completely with baking power?
12:41 PM Loetmichel: indeed
12:41 PM sensille: interesting, i'll try that
12:41 PM sensille: and does it affect powder coating?
12:41 PM fragalot: sensille: avoid breathing the fumes
12:41 PM fragalot: you will hate yourself :P
12:41 PM Loetmichel: fill the woud with baking soda powder, drip thin CA glue into the powder so it soaks.
12:41 PM fragalot: good question, it is non-conductive, so it may
12:42 PM Loetmichel: instant "cement"
12:42 PM Loetmichel: yeah, the fumes are quite nasty
12:42 PM Loetmichel: not only breathing, also to the eyes
12:42 PM Loetmichel: they "bite"
12:43 PM Loetmichel: sensille: you can solder alu with normal electronics solder. its tricky though. you need a blowtorch, some oil, a steel wire brush and some experience
12:43 PM Loetmichel: but it DOES work
12:43 PM fragalot: really?
12:44 PM sensille: but not with a soldering iron
12:44 PM Loetmichel: the trick is that the aluminium will oxidize instantly when exposed to air. especially at 300++°C
12:44 PM fragalot: sensille: not unless said soldering iron can put a few kW of heat into it :P
12:44 PM Jymmm: YAY for no electricity... NOT!
12:45 PM fragalot: Jymmm: still in the dark ages huh?
12:45 PM Loetmichel: so you clean the gash best as possible. then heat it up, put a high temp oil on the soldering joint to be to prevent oxygen to reach the surface, then heat it up to solder metl temperature, melt some solder into a puddle and "massage" it into the aluminium joint with the (stainless)steel brush.
12:46 PM Loetmichel: breaking the oxide layer with the brush and the oil prevents a new layer forming
12:46 PM Jymmm: fragalot: Pretty much, elecricity been out since 4am, 11am now. On gen for lights at least.
12:46 PM Loetmichel: works pretty well if you tried it a few times
12:47 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: ping
12:49 PM sensille: Loetmichel: so not the right tools at hand, need to order them :( which oil would that be?
12:50 PM Loetmichel: any high temperature oil. engine oil should work
12:50 PM Jymmm: chain oil?
12:50 PM Loetmichel: its just there to prevent oxygen from reaching the aluminium surface
12:50 PM sensille: i could try with the gas stove :)
12:51 PM Loetmichel: sensille: if you have a way to fix the aluminium part to the stove so you have two hands to work the brush and simultaneously add more solder or oil that could work
12:52 PM Loetmichel: just be careful that no oil drops into the flames... funny puffs of black soot arent really funny when the fire alarms trigger ;)
12:54 PM sensille: i can borrow a third hand :)
12:54 PM sensille: which solder would be the right one? "fittingslot"?
12:57 PM Loetmichel: i used normal electronics solder
12:57 PM Loetmichel: but copper water line solder should work, too
12:57 PM Loetmichel: maybe add a bit of agressive flux then
01:02 PM Jymmm: and 10,000 volts =)
01:04 PM _unreal_: sup
01:04 PM _unreal_: https://www.change.org/p/logitech-logitech-support-for-linux?recruiter=936145920&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=share_petition&recruited_by_id=a183e500-2fc1-11e9-bca6-d5314d5f6834
01:06 PM * fragalot stares at the required_by_id tag
01:10 PM _unreal_: ?
01:12 PM sensille: i already discovered the disadvantages of electrical probing the second day :( oxidation makes bad contact
01:13 PM fragalot: sensille: And that is why copper plating contacts is a thing :-)
01:13 PM Jymmm: fragalot: recruter by, not required by
01:13 PM fragalot: Jymmm: I stand corrected.
01:13 PM Jymmm: fragalot: no worries, I dont like those either
01:13 PM fragalot: read it right, typed it wrong :D
01:14 PM Jymmm: fragalot: LONG ASS url's bug the fsck out of me
01:14 PM fragalot: Jymmm: would you prefer a bit.ly version with god knows what in it?
01:14 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: copper plating dosent work that well to prevent oxidation
01:14 PM sensille: i have a collet for 3mm and one for 3.125mm, is it preferable to use the 3mm for a 3mm shank, or is it don't care? would have to switch all the time otherwise
01:14 PM Jymmm: fragalot: just friendly url's
01:14 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: because it is not an oxidation-free material...
01:15 PM Loetmichel: usually low power contacts are gold plated and high power contacts are massive silver or a silver/tungsten sinter material
01:15 PM Loetmichel: because silver oxide is mechanically SO weak that the closing contacts can displace it
01:16 PM fragalot: sensille: it is always preferable to use the correct collet
01:17 PM fragalot: the other one might work, but the tool won't be held as well as it could
01:17 PM sensille: it's well within spec (-0.5mm), but i thought it might be worth switching
01:18 PM Loetmichel: it IS worth switching
01:18 PM fragalot: being lazy is not an excuse :-)
01:19 PM Loetmichel: if anything because the ER11 collets tend to bend down when used with small diameters a lot, so you will have probelms to get an 1/8" shank in there after using a few 2mm ones
01:19 PM Loetmichel: 3mm ones
01:19 PM fragalot: just wrap some tape around the 3mm shanks to make them 1/8"
01:19 PM * fragalot nods
01:20 PM rmu: _unreal_: what is the issue with logitech
01:20 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: THATS asking for trouble
01:20 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: :D
01:30 PM sensille: so the soldering totally worked not at all
01:47 PM gloops: my new box jig is up and running lol 4-8 board at once https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J82ggHEGOt4
01:48 PM fragalot: neat :)
01:49 PM fragalot: you could probably save a lot of time if you cut on the back stroke rather than moving it up every time
01:53 PM gloops: yeah i think we came to that conclusion before fragalot, it is a bit of sluggish code really, ill work on it to speed it up
02:01 PM JT-Shop: pong
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L05RJ87Cg-4 Underwater Aluminum Welding
02:05 PM fragalot: 1:50
02:05 PM fragalot: what an expert explanation :D
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/flHXrJSbzMI?t=16
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: double barrel welding
02:11 PM fragalot: texas tig?
02:11 PM fragalot: oh no this is worse, lol
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: I need to write some fluff articles on 5+D printing, 4D is getting old
02:17 PM fragalot: don't forget you need to include in-process milling & CMM functionality
02:18 PM fragalot: bonus points if you can lathe it
02:18 PM fragalot: (in place, of course)
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.3dprintingmedia.network/ono-smartphone-printer-oh-no/
02:20 PM fragalot: oh no
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: looks like they shipped a few at a loss to prove it works
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: and did a live demo in NYC at some printing fair
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: http://kickscammed.com/project/olo-3d-printer/#.XGR8MMZ7lhE
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: contacted us again for resin, forgot they did so 2 years ago
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: scamming so long they forget who they even talked to
02:26 PM fragalot: or hoped that you would
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: scammers are pretty much the same....
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: they don't want to email after one or two...
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: they want to get on the phone so there is little written record
02:45 PM adamj12b: Hello Everyone, I am trying to gauge what a good acceleration rate is for a 5500lb bed mill with 1kw servos would be. I feel like mine is set a bit low at 15in/sec^2. Thoughts?
02:46 PM andypugh: What is your max velocity?
02:47 PM andypugh: The reason I ask is that you can then easily work out what distance the machine needs to reach max velocity, and if that is measured in feet then you probbaly do have too-low acceleration.
02:47 PM adamj12b: 258ipm (4.3 ips)
02:47 PM andypugh: You could just try increasing it until your following-error is too high, or you get scared :-)
02:48 PM adamj12b: O its already scary. lol
02:49 PM andypugh: Well, by my calculations that looks like 0 to max speed in 0.6”. That actually seems pretty swift to me on a machine that size
02:50 PM andypugh: It does mean that the minimum radius at a right-angle bend is also 0.6”, so you would have to take care with rapids inside the work.
02:50 PM adamj12b: I spent some time yesterday re-tuning my Z axis using 25in/sec^2. Here is the plot. https://photos.app.goo.gl/7WirMJsA9YT6sEWL6
02:50 PM andypugh: (Minimum radius for rapids, that is. I doubt you cut at 258ipm very often?)
02:51 PM adamj12b: Yes, Im trying to get it to be tighter in the corners. Ive noticed alot of rounding on YZ rapid moves that have caused a few very close calls.
02:52 PM andypugh: Looks like a peak error or 0.0004”. That seems pretty good at 4ips.
02:52 PM adamj12b: yes. that is correct. More impressive is this is Torque mode control.
02:53 PM andypugh: You could try doubling the axis accel, it will either work or give you a following error fault.
02:53 PM adamj12b: It took alot of time to get it that tight but its under 0.0005 over the 0-258ipm range.
02:54 PM andypugh: That’s a lot better than I have bothered to tune my machines to, to be honest.
02:54 PM PL7icnc: Good Evening
02:55 PM PL7icnc: German from Forum Here as he anounced
02:55 PM andypugh: Hallo!
02:55 PM adamj12b: I searched for some time, but havnt found a good reference of whats "Good Enough"
02:55 PM PL7icnc: gloops, are you here
02:55 PM gloops: yes, hello
02:55 PM andypugh: adamj12b: I would say that only you can define “good enough”.
02:56 PM PL7icnc: andypugh, German Citizen ?
02:56 PM PL7icnc: gloops, 1000 hits in 1 week
02:56 PM andypugh: Nein. Ich in Inselaffe. :-)
02:56 PM PL7icnc: gloops, did you know how many Ich got
02:56 PM gloops: yeah see, those videos are much appreciated
02:56 PM gloops: ich got a lot of hits, more than that in a day sometimes
02:56 PM PL7icnc: andypugh, ?
02:57 PM gloops: i know he answered hundreds of emails
02:57 PM PL7icnc: gloops, People starting to find the Channel
02:57 PM andypugh: (typo in = bin)
02:57 PM PL7icnc: I did Refuse email connection
02:57 PM PL7icnc: andypugh, inselaffe ?
02:57 PM gloops: yeah, id put all the vids back on PL7icnc, thousands of people building those simple stepper machines all the time
02:57 PM PL7icnc: andypugh, Hallig Usedom
02:59 PM PL7icnc: gloops, Youtube is refusing alot as the ID/checksum is uploaded less then 2years ago
02:59 PM PL7icnc: gloops, i need to recompile them
02:59 PM PL7icnc: rubberband transform
02:59 PM andypugh: adamj12b: The way I see it, once your tuning error is in the order of your backlash and machine flex, you are chasing precision that can’t be achieved. Though I _really_ need to re-visit the tuning on my lathe X, it takes several seconds to pull in that last 0.01mm
03:00 PM adamj12b: andypugh: In your opinion, would 60in/sec^2 be too high or still acceptable? The reason I ask is I did a lot of diffing and a comparable machine in size and weight(Haas VF2) uses 60in/sec^2 for acceleration.
03:00 PM PL7icnc: Best is that now All CNC relevant Apps are on bionic direct synaptic Apt
03:00 PM adamj12b: I was getting a ring on deceleration and it was driving me nuts.
03:01 PM adamj12b: it was only about 0.0015" but would make the counterweight make alot of noise.
03:01 PM PL7icnc: adamj12b, i got all Trapezional Mashines and they do not loos steps at all at max 2500mm/min
03:01 PM andypugh: adamj12b: I suspect that Haas spent a lot of time matching servos to axes. Was your machine built as CNC, or is it a conversion?
03:01 PM PL7icnc: at Aluminium milling hard stuff its so cool
03:01 PM adamj12b: built. It had an Anilam control
03:02 PM andypugh: What did the original Anilam achieve?
03:02 PM adamj12b: previous tuning: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8DTGaHb1D3tXZFta9
03:02 PM PL7icnc: adamj12b, did you adjust the Leadscrew system
03:02 PM andypugh: I wouldn’t count on getting mush more out of the mechanics than the Anilam did.
03:02 PM adamj12b: I never got to run it. It was damaged by the riggers and i never bothered to fix an outdated control.
03:02 PM andypugh: any specs online?
03:03 PM adamj12b: PL7icnc: Sorry, Im not following.
03:03 PM PL7icnc: No Problem only one can help you at the time
03:03 PM adamj12b: I have the controller in storage. I will boot it to see if I can find some acceleration numbers. The machine was originally a tool room machine so I assume it was detuned.
03:04 PM PL7icnc: adamj12b, mm or inch
03:04 PM adamj12b: inch
03:04 PM PL7icnc: im off not my system
03:04 PM andypugh: 25.4
03:04 PM PL7icnc: i always start at 40 / 120 as requested
03:04 PM andypugh: That’s all you need to convert
03:05 PM PL7icnc: maning 2400mm/min
03:05 PM PL7icnc: 2inch per second
03:05 PM PL7icnc: and acc then 6inch second square
03:06 PM adamj12b: Here is a pic of the machine from a few months ago. https://photos.app.goo.gl/mAYsSw6ayWYiDxr67
03:06 PM PL7icnc: then go as you see no error double
03:06 PM Connor: Anyone know anything about a Walker 6x12 surface grinder? I'm trying to find some specs on it, or a manual.. and can't find anything.
03:06 PM adamj12b: 30X 20Y 23Z
03:06 PM andypugh: He is at 15 in/s2 = 380mm/s2
03:07 PM adamj12b: and Z is at 25 in/s2 currently.
03:07 PM PL7icnc: andypugh, cut it in half and see
03:07 PM PL7icnc: andypugh, what is his backlash
03:08 PM adamj12b: backlash is under 0.001 on all 3 axis
03:08 PM adamj12b: in
03:08 PM andypugh: PL7icnc: You seem to be answering the wrong question… He is wondering whether more acceleration would be reasonable.
03:08 PM PL7icnc: andypugh, it all depends on his work
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: walker makes magnetic chucks http://www.walkermagnet.com/workholding-standard-grinding-chucks-ceramax.htm
03:08 PM PL7icnc: Plasmas need higher then mill
03:09 PM Connor: http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/0907180903.jpg
03:09 PM adamj12b: I am working on mapping the screws using a 1 micron linear encoder, but had to put that project on hold.
03:10 PM Connor: CaptHindsight: Yea.. I saw that.. and I'm wondering if the older gentleman isn't using that for the make of the machine..
03:10 PM gloops: is this a vintage grinder - walker-turner?
03:10 PM gloops: or just walker
03:10 PM Connor: it does have a variable magnetic chuck on it.
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: looks like a pretty standard manual surface grinder
03:10 PM PL7icnc: adamj12b, what Voltige are this Steppers on
03:10 PM Connor: You tell me. The listing said Walker, and that's the picture of it.
03:11 PM PL7icnc: adamj12b, seams that they are 5V so you need at least 36V
03:11 PM Connor: $600.00 for it..
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: $400
03:11 PM Connor: Didn't sound all that bad too me..
03:11 PM adamj12b: PL7icnc: 1kW AC servos. DMM-Tech.com Dyn4 amplifiers.
03:11 PM gloops: 600 is not OTT for that i wouldnt have thought
03:11 PM PL7icnc: Oh Highteech adamj12b
03:11 PM Connor: It is 3-phase..
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: 1HP?
03:12 PM Connor: Older guy, diagnosed with Cancer.
03:12 PM PL7icnc: adamj12b, is the encoder giving back the commands as you said you tried to liniar scale
03:12 PM adamj12b: 1.3HP
03:12 PM Connor: Dunno.. I'm going to go inspect in the next few days.
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: Connor: if everything works
03:13 PM PL7icnc: at 50 years of age cancer is always around the next iinspection
03:13 PM Connor: He said it's still under power and we can even grind something while I'm there.
03:13 PM gloops: if youre looking at the badge on the magnet - thats just the chuck maker, not the machine itself
03:13 PM adamj12b: the linear scale is not for positioning. The rotory encoders do position feedback. The linear was just fed to the A axis so I could use the log output to write commanded position and actual position to a CSV to compute error for the compensation file.
03:13 PM PL7icnc: gloops, is my Upload Mix good for You
03:14 PM PL7icnc: adamj12b, you need to check this minimum 3 times bevor beliving a real
03:14 PM gloops: PL7icnc yes not a bad mix, im going to watch some myself, i see the freecad vids are getting quite a lot of hits too
03:15 PM PL7icnc: gloops, i need to connect this guys at freecad
03:15 PM PL7icnc: gloops, they removed Ichs aplications also
03:16 PM gloops: #freecad - some of the developers come in here, Ichs was working on Freecad i think
03:16 PM andypugh: Connor: Those handles are pretty distinctive, maybe try a google images search like https://www.google.com/search?q=surface+grinder+site:www.lathes.co.uk
03:16 PM PL7icnc: gloops, ive seen some repro git action on the main Education PC
03:16 PM adamj12b: PL7icnc: I was doing an average after 5 runs, but I was getting noise on the encoder line which was causing drift in the reading. I will get back to it soon.
03:17 PM PL7icnc: adj remove the cabled get the double shilded ones
03:18 PM adamj12b: a good portion seemed to come from the power supply but didnt have the stuff handy to build a better filter at the time.
03:18 PM PL7icnc: as time goes by mashines getting better
03:19 PM PL7icnc: i need to leave class is waiting at 8am
03:20 PM Connor: It looks like to me it's also a little benchtop unit..
03:20 PM Connor: which is kinda nice.. I didn't want a very large one..
03:21 PM XXCoder: magnet thing?
03:21 PM gloops: guard over the wheel might be an idea
03:22 PM gloops: saw a surface grinding wheel go when i was about 18 - like a flak gun lol
03:23 PM adamj12b: andypugh: will adjusting acceleration greatly effect tuning, or is it something I can play with and just watch the following error till I find the max?
03:23 PM andypugh: You should be able to change the accel in LinuxCNC and not need to change servo tuning at all.
03:23 PM adamj12b: Fantastic
03:24 PM Connor: He has the guard.
03:27 PM adamj12b: one additional question before I go. I am changing the spindle on the machine and the new one will allow me to set up spindle orientation. Currently the VFD takes an analog speed command and forward/reverse digital signals. Would this be suitable to orient or should I look into the other input methods the drive supports?
03:30 PM andypugh: That should be perfectly usable for spindle orient.
03:31 PM adamj12b: Cool. Thanks for the info.
03:33 PM Connor: OMG How many different surface grinders are there...
03:34 PM XXCoder: Answer is always "more than you expect"
03:36 PM Connor: http://www.lathes.co.uk/sanford-sg-48/
03:36 PM Connor: Those hand wheels look the same...
03:36 PM Connor: That's a Sanford..
03:43 PM roycroft: there are 42 different types of surface grinders
03:43 PM gloops: looks like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SljaS-b-Zo
03:44 PM gloops: www.d-and-d.com/misc/MANUALS/Sanford/SCANNINGS/Flyer-1.pdf
03:45 PM andypugh: lathes.co.uk is definitely the best web site in the world.
03:45 PM gloops: sg48 , some scant info on that flyer
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.fischer-modell.de/
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: trains ^^
03:48 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: Spent a day at Miniature Wunderland in Hamburg at New Year. Probbaly the biggest train set in the world.
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: have only seen pics
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: coreboot had a fest there years ago but I missed it, should have gone
03:50 PM andypugh: It’s pretty impressive. https://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/news/invasion-of-the-giants/
03:55 PM Connor: So, do we think it might be a Sanfard then? Based on those hand wheels?
03:57 PM andypugh: It looks a lot like one to me, the overall design is also very similar.
03:58 PM Deejay: gn8
03:58 PM andypugh: It’s pretty small, or the guy has very big boots.
03:59 PM Connor: It's small. I don't need something huge..
03:59 PM andypugh: I wasn’t saying that was a bad thing. I think I could make a space for that myself.
03:59 PM Connor: I was wondering if they made a benchtop surface grinder..
03:59 PM Connor: looks like they doo.
03:59 PM Connor: 4" Wheel?
04:00 PM Connor: or maybe a 6"
04:00 PM Connor: What's the deal with dry grinding vs wet grinding?
04:00 PM andypugh: Worn 6” assuming a 12” foot fits in the boots :-)
04:01 PM Connor: it's listed as a 6x12
04:01 PM Connor: So, I'm not sure if that's the size of the chuck, or the size of the travel
04:02 PM Jymmm: IS JT-Shop awol ???
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/a/gUbxkbV always strap the machine to the truck when moving
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: have to glue that back on someday :)
04:07 PM Jymmm: Does this look liek air hose quick connect??? https://propanewarehouse.com/shop/fittings/acme-fittings/male-opd-x-male-type-2-quick-connect/
04:08 PM andypugh: Are the ini.N.max_limit pins etc documented? Which component do they belong to?
04:13 PM Connor: https://www.stvrainmfg.com/facilitieslg.html?id=Harig-Super-612&title=Harig%20Super%20612%20Manual%20Surface%20Grinder
04:13 PM Connor: I think that's the one.
04:14 PM Connor: Same base, some wheels, tapered column
04:14 PM gloops: just needs a control system now Connor
04:15 PM Connor: Even the guard is mounted the same.
04:17 PM Connor: 1HP, 1-1/4" arbor. 6" x 10" chuck.
04:42 PM * Jymmm is back, scred yet?
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: boo
04:43 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: power back on?
04:43 PM andypugh: I am always scred
04:43 PM Jymmm: No, just the ups is flipping out on the generator
04:44 PM Jymmm: andypugh: But, you won't have to replace the roof for another 150 yers, so don't have to be scared about that
04:45 PM andypugh: The roof hasn’t been touched for weeks, as I have been skiing and such instead (and waiting for better roofing weather)
04:45 PM Jymmm: andypugh: I thoguht you were done with the roof about 5 years ago?
04:46 PM andypugh: Ahh, I thought you were talking about the shed roof that I started to repair at Christmas.
04:47 PM Jymmm: Oh, I didnt know about that project
04:47 PM andypugh: Start of the job, christmas Eve https://photos.app.goo.gl/HqTpKHZWMwi2PKKg8
04:48 PM andypugh: Got this far by New-year https://photos.app.goo.gl/diGazLV5UT9BK95F7
04:49 PM Jymmm: is that a metal skin I see?
04:50 PM Jymmm: andypugh: That's an awesme view you have there
04:50 PM Jymmm: andypugh: how many acres?
04:51 PM andypugh: I used a layer of 6mm Stokboard. The problem with that roof is that the pitch isn’t really steep enough for the roofing material.
04:52 PM andypugh: There is almost no land with the house. My mu was renting 5 acres down the hill, but as she is 78 and never even went for a walk on it, she let the rent lapse.
04:52 PM Tom_L: may as well get the view for free
04:53 PM lostinsip: evening all
04:53 PM lostinsip: How's it going Jymmm did you get the heating working yet?
04:54 PM Jymmm: andypugh: You have to RENT land togo for a walk?
04:54 PM Jymmm: lostinsip: I got parts, the rain and snow stopped me, then the electricity has been out for 11 hours now too =)
04:55 PM andypugh: You can enjoy the view in Google Maps here: https://goo.gl/maps/P9EXGtiHfBK2
04:55 PM Tom_L: got a gen goin?
04:55 PM andypugh: Jymmm: No, she was renting the right to farm it. But wasn’t doing anything at all with it.
04:55 PM JT-Shop: Jymmm: pong
04:55 PM lostinsip: Ah no what a pain Jymmm
04:56 PM lostinsip: I hope you get back up and running soon :)
04:56 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: Yeah, it's a nice little dual fuel gen.
04:56 PM Tom_L: iirc we discussed dual fuel back when i was considering it
04:56 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: Hey, I was just wonderfing how you tapped into your big propane tank? how did you terminate the ends?
04:57 PM Tom_L: do you have to start on gasoline?
04:57 PM Jymmm: nope
04:57 PM Jymmm: pull and electric start too
04:57 PM JT-Shop: just used flare fittings and copper tubing to run from the tank to the house
04:58 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: Oh, I thought you used air hose
04:58 PM JT-Shop: air hose for my cajun cooker
04:59 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: Yeah, how did you connect each end, ? Acnme fitting to the coooker, and ???
05:00 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: amazon and ebay have free shipping
05:00 PM lostinsip: I have a random question hi does anyone have any experience connecting a wacom graphics tablet with gimp or inkscape in linux?
05:00 PM JT-Shop: the cooker has a QD air fitting on it as it is made from a peice of pipe
05:00 PM lostinsip: oops sorry a bit of copypasta with a random hi
05:01 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: ok, and to the tank???
05:01 PM andypugh: lostinsip: Not altogether off-topic though.
05:01 PM JT-Shop: normal regulator
05:01 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: There is a 10K version too... https://www.amazon.com/XP4850EH-Starting-Electric-Portable-Generator/dp/B00J7V5ENG
05:01 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: But did you plumb it to a QD or direct or ???
05:02 PM JT-Shop: what is an it?
05:02 PM lostinsip: thanks andypugh yeah i wondered if anyone uses them
05:03 PM Jymmm: {250gal tank} --> {regulator} --- pipe --- ??? ---airhose
05:03 PM JT-Shop: 20lb tank regulator hose QD QD cooker
05:03 PM lostinsip: My partner is looking at a used one from a friend and looking via google it looks like it is supported but more info is always good before shelling out!
05:03 PM JT-Shop: also use that on my 100lb tank
05:03 PM Jymmm: OH! I thought you were tapping intoa a BIG 250 gal tank
05:04 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: Ok, so pipe, ball vlave then qd ?
05:04 PM JT-Shop: I could boil crawfish for a few years connected to the 500 gallon tank lol
05:04 PM Jymmm: Or are you trusting the QD to do it's job =)
05:04 PM JT-Shop: no just like I said above
05:05 PM Jymmm: ok, thanks
05:05 PM JT-Shop: the 20lb tank has a valve...
05:05 PM Jymmm: and the 100lb?
05:05 PM JT-Shop: the QD is for convenience to carry the cooker without having to lug the tank at the same time
05:05 PM Jymmm: Oh
05:06 PM JT-Shop: same setup on the 100lb it's the same as a 20lb only bigger
05:06 PM Jymmm: See, I'm tappig intot eh existing propane gas pipe to the house
05:08 PM JT-Shop: I use gas valves at the house in case I need to shut off the kitchen or the heater for service
05:09 PM Jymmm: There is one for that already, I'm just adding an exttra valve for the QD so I can lock it off.
05:10 PM JT-Shop: I would not mount a QD directly on a generator, I would have a short hose then the QD so it does not vibrate and wear out
05:11 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: Good idea, thanks.
05:12 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: I'm thinking a Male QD connected to this https://www.amazon.com/DozyAnt-Propane-Fitting-Adapter-Thread/dp/B06Y3KMP1M
05:18 PM lostinsip: im off to bed guys, good luck with the heating and power Jymmm
05:19 PM Jymmm: power back
05:19 PM Jymmm: need to shutdown the gen, brb
05:27 PM sparq: Hey, has anyone tried building a DRO out of anything other than a pair of calipers? I'm looking at some darkfield optical sensors for gaming mice that say they can do 12,000 counts-per-inch in the datasheet, which is... interesting.
05:28 PM SpeedEvil: sparq: readout speed can be quite slow
05:28 PM SpeedEvil: also, mice while they may do 12000CPI, don't do it repeatedly
05:28 PM sparq: Hmm.
05:29 PM SpeedEvil: in principle, you could use pretty much any camera, and finely focus it on a scale, or random dot pattern and track it in software
05:30 PM * sparq waits for the inevitable "in practice"
05:31 PM andypugh: Renishaw have a very clever system that uses a non-repeating pattern and a camera. The camera gets absolute position by reading the bar code, and the really fine position by where the pattern is in the camera field of view.
05:31 PM sparq: That's neat
05:32 PM andypugh: https://www.renishaw.com/en/how-optical-encoders-work--36979
05:33 PM andypugh: Wow! “ All this while maintaining 1 nm resolution at 100 m/s”
05:36 PM sparq: I wonder how far you have to move one of these mouse sensors before it looses repeatability. If it's a millimeter or three, you could maybe use a cheap laser rangefinder to get the course position, and only rely on the mouse sensor for very fine relative movements?
05:37 PM sparq: My machine is tiny, so mounting scales for DROs is going to kinda suck.
05:40 PM sparq: andypugh: This page is really cool
05:53 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: I'm VERY pleased with the gen. I haven't even put gasoline in it at all. Comes with the propane hose and regulator, 12V battery, wheel kit, Just need a 5gal bbq propane tank. It just ran for 12 hours non stop on about 1/2 tank (I'm guessing)
05:54 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: I do use Mobile One oil though
05:54 PM Jymmm: OH, and you need oil too, forgot =)
05:55 PM Jymmm: 43,000 people without power
05:56 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: how wide an oxcart can you get down that path?
05:56 PM Jymmm: lmao @ CaptHindsight
05:57 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: Here's the 10KW version... https://www.amazon.com/Duromax-XP10000EH-Hybrid-Generator-50-State/dp/B00Y1DMW2G
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: thats the kind of England we only see in movies here
06:00 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: midevil england only though
06:03 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: Some of the bigger cars I borrow from work barely fit.
06:04 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: same paths for 800+ years?
06:04 PM Jymmm: andypugh: Any actual horse drawn wooden wagons?
06:06 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: I don’t think anyone lived there 800 years ago. The house is the oldest (remaining) in the valley and is only about 550 years old.
06:07 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: ah I though it was a bit older
06:07 PM CaptHindsight: though/thought
06:08 PM andypugh: Talking about wooden transport, I couldn’t stop watching this series: https://youtu.be/4FhTu3aGM60
06:08 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1450s_in_England
06:14 PM CaptHindsight: deliver boat, build shed around boat
06:15 PM CaptHindsight: more projects not for single parents
06:16 PM andypugh: He is a single parent of a boat.
06:16 PM CaptHindsight: heh
06:16 PM CaptHindsight: I managed to 99% finish one old car
06:16 PM CaptHindsight: partially gut a house while living in it
06:17 PM CaptHindsight: 18 years where any free time was spent sleeping
06:19 PM CaptHindsight: you have to do those projects because you just love the work
07:13 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.armytimes.com/resizer/EQuPp3iSH3GC5iakw-uhZpq6s1I=/1200x0/filters:quality(100)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-mco.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5TUAHLFBZZGFFCOFMZYRJCHWIY.jpg
07:14 PM CaptHindsight: 77 years under the ocean
07:17 PM andypugh: looks like it would start
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/02/12/sunken-aircraft-carrier-hornet-best-known-for-doolittle-raid-located-miles-below-the-waves/
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: still on its deck
07:42 PM asdfasd1: anyone tried iron plating on copper?
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: just you :)
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: asdfasd1: I'd ask here: https://www.finishing.com/index.html
08:08 PM asdfasd1: I did look there, only 1 person seems to have experience, and his last reply is from 2007
08:09 PM Jymmm: I"m wondering why iron on copper, instead of the other way around.
08:09 PM CaptHindsight: ask anyway
08:09 PM CaptHindsight: don't be shy
08:09 PM asdfasd1: soldering iron tips
08:09 PM asdfasd1: copper core with iron protective coating
08:09 PM CaptHindsight: some people have been on there for years and years, since the site began or even longer :)
08:12 PM Jymmm: Eh, all you need is a battery, iron brake disc and some baking soda =)
08:14 PM asdfasd1: sorry disconnected
08:14 PM asdfasd1: what you mean with baking soda and brake disk?
08:16 PM Jymmm: basic electroplating
08:17 PM asdfasd1: does it work for plating iron on copper?
08:18 PM Jymmm: I don't know, never tried it like that
08:19 PM asdfasd1: I know some people here do proper electroplating, one of them is rob_h but he seems to be missing for a long time
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: asdfasd1: you have been following the proper formulas...
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: you just need some experience with good chemistry practices
08:24 PM asdfasd1: I did some plating
08:25 PM asdfasd1: but when heated/cooled it cracks
08:25 PM CaptHindsight: it takes more a than good recipe to make a good meal
08:26 PM asdfasd1: and also it seems doesnt stick strong enough to the copper
08:26 PM asdfasd1: I dont know how to resolve these 2 problems
08:26 PM asdfasd1: I did try with a help of nickel
08:26 PM asdfasd1: much better, but still not good enough
08:26 PM CaptHindsight: if you ask on the finishing forums you will get answers from you need more practice to maybe someone who knows the exact issue
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: even if they already know
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: post the steps you followed and pics
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: the more info you have the better the answers will be
08:28 PM asdfasd1: most of their answers are advertising their books
08:28 PM asdfasd1: if any useful answer appear it is years later
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: hire a consultant
08:29 PM asdfasd1: haha
08:29 PM asdfasd1: if that was for a business - I would definitely do it
08:29 PM asdfasd1: for a hobby - I better give up
08:35 PM Jymmm: Um, just try it? You dont have a car battery or DC power supply?
08:35 PM asdfasd1: I did try it, with proper recepy, with proper power supply
08:35 PM asdfasd1: but iron plating is very tricky
08:36 PM asdfasd1: and Im missing something important, but dont know what it is
08:52 PM fdarling: I am trying to test a custom Smart Serial (Mesa Electronics card compatible), and I was hoping to do this from my non-realtime desktop of even from a virtual machine. Does anyone know if it's strictly necessarily to have realtime to interface with an ethernet based Mesa FPGA card?
08:53 PM flyback: https://youtu.be/HyznrdDSSGM
09:06 PM Elmo40: flyback, people have way too much free time on their hands to build an 8-bit computer on breadboards...
09:07 PM Elmo40: sure, if he is a teacher and showing kids then it would be fine but for 'personal fun' ?? Ugh... I have a thousand better things to do with my time than making blinking lights.
09:07 PM fdarling: Elmo40: you've seen that guy who not only built his own wire wrap computer, but wrote a compiler for it and runs a webserver, right?
09:07 PM Elmo40: eating a taco comes to mind ;-)
09:07 PM Elmo40: no. that sounds even more backwards
09:08 PM fdarling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv2TxiwAquM
09:14 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNhu03_dgfg
09:14 PM Elmo40: http://oi64.tinypic.com/259fi9e.jpg
09:14 PM Elmo40: this is SAE30 at only -21C !!
09:15 PM Elmo40: it was standard back in the 20-40's
09:15 PM Elmo40: imagine trying to start your car with that?
09:15 PM Elmo40: silly thing is that old shit is *still* being used today!!
09:16 PM Elmo40: but not for educational purposes, like that 8-bit video ;-)
10:09 PM CaptHindsight: just flip the pic 90 deg and everything is fine
10:17 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Smartcam/threadmacro4.jpg
10:17 PM Tom_L: got the macro working
10:22 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: whats the green?
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: I went around collecting electrical power for you tonight
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: hope you accept donations
10:27 PM Tom_L: green is a 1/4 20 path and major minor diameters, the red is 3/8 and blue is major minor diameters for ti
10:27 PM Tom_L: it*
10:27 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: have you heard of titanium engine blocks?
10:27 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: usually just rods
10:28 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: me and a friend were talking about making things with the SLS type machine I still want to build...
10:29 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: they aren't that complicated
10:29 PM Tom_L: Jymmm i tested more than one at once there
10:29 PM tiwake: titanium should work better because its more thermally resistive than even steel
10:29 PM CaptHindsight: the laser and galvo are pretty trivial
10:29 PM tiwake: right
10:30 PM CaptHindsight: powder spreader and compactor that works to 300-400C is a bit more difficult
10:30 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: Ah, gotcha. Thought you were making an inner and outter threads at the same time =)
10:30 PM tiwake: yeah... heh.. preheat the machine
10:31 PM Tom_L: Jymmm, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Smartcam/ThreadMill.mcl
10:31 PM Tom_L: for what it's worth..
10:31 PM Tom_L: i doubt anybody else can use it
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.todaysmotorvehicles.com/article/tmv1214-titanium-truck-engines/
10:34 PM tiwake: yeah, titanium alloys
10:34 PM CaptHindsight: vales are another
10:34 PM CaptHindsight: valves
10:35 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: how much does titanium powder cost anyway?
10:35 PM tiwake: and aluminum for that matter
10:36 PM CaptHindsight: $10/kg and up
10:36 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/titanium-powder.html
10:37 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: Very cool =)
10:37 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/400mesh-titanium-powder.html
10:38 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: if you were making blocks then you could invest in a plasma nanoparticle generator and make it yourself
10:38 PM tiwake: I have never heard or seen that sequence of words before
10:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDcINv5JKDg
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWjsPR4zVGs
10:43 PM tiwake: hmm
10:44 PM Jymmm: Um how would you unscrew these? I dont see any flats... https://www.amazon.com/LASCO-17-5381-4-Inch-Thread-Adapter/dp/B00I8NS6Q6/
10:45 PM MarcelineVQ: are they left-handed?
10:46 PM Tom_L: why would you?
10:46 PM MarcelineVQ: ah, no, nvm
10:46 PM Tom_L: there may be an internal hex you can't see
10:46 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: wouldn't the differences in materials - titanium engine block and aluminum radiator+pistons cause erosion problems?
10:46 PM Tom_L: otherwise waterpump pliers it is...
10:47 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: thats what all the extra surface treatments are for
10:47 PM Tom_L: MarcelineVQ those are not left handed
10:48 PM MarcelineVQ: Tom_L: yeah it was hard to tell in the first pic, it's clearer in the second
10:49 PM Tom_L: i must have missed the first one :)
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: for every day use cast iron works and is far less expensive
10:56 PM tiwake: enh, yeah... we are talking multi-thousand hp engines though too
10:56 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: I was speaking more of the two male acme fittings,
10:56 PM Tom_L: most of those are aluminum blocks
10:56 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: super fuel and F1 use aluminum blocks, super fuel has iron sleeves
10:56 PM tiwake: donno... I was just thinking about it
10:56 PM tiwake: yeah, steel sleeves
10:56 PM Tom_L: yeah afik they're all sleeved
10:56 PM tiwake: well no, not all
10:57 PM tiwake: whenever they talk about coated cylinder walls, its generally coated directly on the aluminum
10:57 PM tiwake: which is crap... because they are cheap bastards
10:57 PM Tom_L: what about thermal expansion and blowby?
10:58 PM tiwake: what about it?
10:58 PM Jymmm: Tom_L: THIS one has hex flats... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KZTXSW3/
10:58 PM Tom_L: that's why they use sleevs
10:58 PM Tom_L: es
10:58 PM tiwake: yeah
10:59 PM Tom_L: unless you're talking about a single summer use lawn mower etc
10:59 PM tiwake: heh
10:59 PM tiwake: the top fuel engines are one-shots... heh
11:00 PM Tom_L: the keith black i helped work on was sleeved
11:00 PM Tom_L: aluminum lower end and heads
11:00 PM tiwake: typical
11:00 PM Tom_L: 540cc iirc
11:00 PM Tom_L: cu in
11:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/a/GKiIhYW iron sleves and aluminum pistons for SLS printer powder and build beds
11:01 PM CaptHindsight: sleeves even
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: 4.560-inch bore
11:04 PM Tom_L: iirc the pistons my bud uses has different coatings around the skirt than the ring lands
11:18 PM Elmo40: CaptHindsight, those round rails, what is the name for those?
11:18 PM Elmo40: i'd like a set for my 3D printer. Maybe not as fat but I do like the round style.
11:18 PM Jymmm: round rails =)
11:19 PM skunkworks: https://youtu.be/n2BGYOcmC4w
11:20 PM MarcelineVQ: I like that vacuum tube on the facemill :>
11:22 PM skunkworks: ?
11:22 PM Elmo40: lovely little machine!
11:23 PM MarcelineVQ: that's quite the z travel
11:24 PM Elmo40: did I hear steppers ?
11:24 PM skunkworks: yes - no clue the specs.
11:24 PM skunkworks: running off a leadshine 3 axis driver
11:25 PM Jymmm: skunkworks: moves quick and smoothly, worlds most expensive kids toy ;)
11:29 PM skunkworks: Jymmm: that is what soft limits are for
11:48 PM CaptHindsight: Elmo40: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/bearing-block-rail/25mm-x-1200mm-supported-linear-shaft/
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.thomsonlinear.com/en/products/shafting/support-rails-products
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.thomsonlinear.com/en/products/shafting-products
11:51 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.automation-overstock.com/categories.asp?cat=14
11:51 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.nookindustries.com/Product/ProductLine/Linear-Shafting-and-Shaft-Supports
11:52 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.pbclinear.com/Products/Round-Shaft-Technology/Linear-Shafting-Support-Rails
11:53 PM CaptHindsight: baby size with crunchy bearings https://www.adafruit.com/product/1179