#linuxcnc Logs

Jan 24 2019

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:38 AM Deejay: moin
03:37 AM PL7icnc: Hi its Snowing outside the Education Center
03:38 AM PL7icnc: Q is there a command that i can add to Gcode to clear the screen for the Next part
03:38 AM PL7icnc: or even a Mcode
03:38 AM PL7icnc: 2.7.14
03:43 AM PL7icnc: off 2 class
04:16 AM XXCoder: no staying power
04:26 AM jthornton: morning
04:27 AM XXCoder: hey
04:29 AM jthornton: 23°F with a sunny high of 42°F today, maybe the chicken yard will dry out a bit
04:31 AM XXCoder: cloudy 46f
04:31 AM XXCoder: right now 42f and minor mist rain
04:31 AM XXCoder: something amazing happened: week prediction does not have rain in it at all
04:35 AM jthornton: wow that's nice
04:35 AM jthornton: the ground here is just soaked right now
04:36 AM XXCoder: jt you have no idea how unusual this is
04:36 AM XXCoder: normally if its not raining, its because its mist rain
05:16 AM Tom_L: morning
05:16 AM Tom_L: 34F, Hi 32, Lo 17
05:17 AM Tom_L: looks like it's downhill from here
05:21 AM jthornton: kinda cold here tonight then normal winter temps for a few days 20's to 40's
07:20 AM sensille: to mill something like that, what tool would i use? https://i.imgur.com/8ckZtXV.png
07:21 AM sensille: i have a radius mill, can f360 handle that?
07:22 AM sensille: i guess the radius has to be smaller than the smallest radius in the model
08:39 AM FinboySlick: Oh no. The autobahn will now have a speed limit to save the planet from climate change.
08:39 AM FinboySlick: I don't want the planet saved anymore.
08:40 AM syyl: taking away the germans unregulated autobahn is like taking the americans their guns
08:40 AM syyl: people will shit themself
08:41 AM FinboySlick: I'm not German and I'm upset, I can only imagine.
08:41 AM syyl: i am german ;)
08:41 AM FinboySlick: That you are. In the best possible ways.
08:41 AM Jymmm: Whats the new speed limit?
08:41 AM syyl: 130
08:41 AM syyl: probably
08:43 AM Jymmm: haha, I googled to convert that to MPH, and the Autobahn came up in the search results =)
08:43 AM Jymmm: Ok, what was was the avg speed?
08:44 AM Jymmm: And 130 is nothing, I drive that speed on the sidewalk
08:44 AM syyl: how long is a piece of string?
08:44 AM Jymmm: <--- THIS LONG -->
08:44 AM FinboySlick: Jymmm: The imagery you just summoned in my mind is priceless.
08:45 AM syyl: there are unlimited parts, there are large sections of autobahnlimited to 100 or 120km/h
08:45 AM FinboySlick: Jymmm: I hope you drive a pickup because that was part of the mental picture.
08:46 AM Jymmm: syyl: 120?! That's it? I was thinking like 195
08:46 AM Jymmm: FinboySlick: Nope, sorry
08:46 AM syyl: did you read what i wrote?
08:46 AM Jymmm: Well is 195 comon?
08:46 AM syyl: unlimited sections are unlimited
08:46 AM Jymmm: 300?
08:47 AM syyl: if the traffic allows for that
08:47 AM syyl: yes
08:47 AM FinboySlick: They could have just been clever, say they keep the 'unlimited' but spread them into 2km sections ;)
08:47 AM Jymmm: but is it common, not exception?
08:47 AM FinboySlick: With a photo-radar at the end of each.
08:48 AM syyl: if you want a percentage of how much the autobahn is unlimited you have to ask google ;)
08:49 AM Jymmm: Nah, google fail, only listed perforamance cars
08:50 AM Jymmm: I wanna see a yugo doing 300 =)
08:50 AM syyl: about 60% are unlimited
09:10 AM gregcnc: Jymmm Golf at 300? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvjQ7kDSgQ&t=160s
09:21 AM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: next week -30C (-21F) fun fun fun
09:22 AM gregcnc: oh I haven't checked next week yet
09:23 AM gregcnc: it was showing almost a foot of snow for sun/mon
09:24 AM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: the trend is to ruin everything nice
09:26 AM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: how many Yugo's are still on the road?
09:26 AM syyl: 2
09:26 AM syyl: roughly
09:27 AM rmu: we can't have nice things
09:28 AM CaptHindsight: are they really claiming that the unlimited speeds were an emissions problem?
09:28 AM syyl: yes, because everyone is in full-panic-mode
09:29 AM syyl: there would be way more meaningful ways to reason a limit
09:29 AM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: I wonder how much of that is just us growing old.
09:29 AM CaptHindsight: bend over and show us your papers
09:30 AM FinboySlick: My contribution to climate change is a pledge to burn less fuel than Al Gore.
09:30 AM FinboySlick: So far I've been doing very well.
09:31 AM gregcnc: meanwhile https://youtu.be/hwyqrf0JznY?t=46
09:31 AM CaptHindsight: burn baby burn
09:31 AM rmu: hehe
09:32 AM CaptHindsight: well the autobahn was doomed anyway with self driving track you cars on the way
09:32 AM FinboySlick: Oh, anyone here know good used telco equipment brokers? I'm looking for a Metaswitch card.
09:32 AM FinboySlick: (used)
09:33 AM CaptHindsight: the one I knew sold used to small developing nations
09:34 AM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Well, that might still work. Ebay has a few parts but not the ones I need.
09:34 AM CaptHindsight: Angola, Sudan, Mississippi etc
09:36 AM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: can't go VOIP?
09:37 AM FinboySlick: Well, it is voip.
09:37 AM FinboySlick: Just telco-grade.
09:37 AM FinboySlick: (since we technically are a telco)
09:41 AM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: look hard to find used
09:41 AM CaptHindsight: looks
09:41 AM FinboySlick: Yeah.
09:42 AM FinboySlick: They're reaching end of life though so telcos that actually have money should be getting rid of theirs about now.
09:43 AM CaptHindsight: from what i saw they would rip out entire central offices, warehouse them and resell to 2nd 3rd world
09:44 AM FinboySlick: I'd hate to have the job of putting it back together in sudan.
09:47 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.txo-systems.com/catalog/metaswitch/
09:48 AM FinboySlick: Ooh, looks promising.
09:48 AM CaptHindsight: Help Wanted - Telecom installers, must have experience with older switch installations and dodging bullets and sand flys
09:50 AM CaptHindsight: compensation and job title based on experience
09:53 AM slakwhere: hello all. trying to sanity check my understanding of tool length offsets and touch off. I understand i have to populate the tool table with TLOs. i have a jig to measure the TTS tool holder stickout from the reference surface. so i'm considering zeroing on my spindle face, and then measure offsets and record them. When doing that, is the spindle Tool 0? then do all the subsequent tools?
09:54 AM slakwhere: at that point the tools know their offset, so moving forward for any new workpieces, i should be able to set z with any tool (assuming linuxCNC knows it's loaded) and then it's already using that offset, so when i switch tools again i get the same offsets?
09:54 AM gregcnc: You don't need the zero reference
09:54 AM slakwhere: i don't currently have a digital probe of any sort, so i am using an edge finder for x/y and then touching off z with whatever the facing tool is
09:55 AM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Apparently they have the part I need. Thanks a bunch, I hope the price makes sense.
09:55 AM gregcnc: so you aren't touching off a reference on the table?
09:57 AM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: good luck, happy to be of service
09:57 AM slakwhere: i hadn't planned on it. i was just going to measure the offset of every tool on the workbench. i built a tool, it's a glorified version of the tormach surface plate with the hole in it to measure TTS holders.
09:58 AM gregcnc: slakwhere, yes that is how it works
10:00 AM gregcnc: the spindle face being zero won't ever come into play unless you use it to touch off work offset
10:01 AM slakwhere: yes, i guess i don't ever expect to use the spindle face as a direct offset, it's just the thing that makes the most sense to use as a 0 reference if i'm going to be basing all other tool holder lengths off it.
10:02 AM syyl: seeing how many people break tons of haimer probetips, touching off with the spindlenose could be hillarious.
10:02 AM slakwhere: so looking at the output of fusion360, their G43 command is giving an offset. N890 G43 Z0.6 H2
10:03 AM gregcnc: H2 assuming T2
10:03 AM slakwhere: that's a result of f360's tool table. so i need to decide if i populate the Fusion table and let it do offsets or edit the post processor to omit the offset and let linuxCNC do it
10:03 AM gregcnc: no
10:04 AM syyl: dont let fusion do it
10:04 AM syyl: use the tool table in linuxcnc
10:04 AM slakwhere: syyl, that's my preference for sure. let linuxcnc do it.
10:04 AM slakwhere: just saying, both technically possible... but if i use fusion i lose tool offsets on the mill for anything that wasn't generated in fusion.
10:05 AM slakwhere: so then i need to modify the post to not include TLO's from fusion.
10:05 AM syyl: i have a ground pin as tool 1 - and i measure all other tools off that length
10:05 AM syyl: the output of the fusion post is fine, as long as you keep the tool numbers the same
10:06 AM gregcnc: what do you mean let fusion set the offset?
10:06 AM gregcnc: H2 is set in the post to be related to T2
10:07 AM slakwhere: gregcnc: i understand that. but isn't this setting a z offset? N890 G43 Z0.6 H2
10:07 AM gregcnc: no
10:07 AM syyl: no
10:07 AM gregcnc: Z0.6 is a move
10:07 AM slakwhere: oh!
10:07 AM syyl: ha :D
10:07 AM syyl: it moves to Z0,6 with the new tool length offset
10:07 AM slakwhere: see, good thing i asked :P
10:08 AM syyl: thats why its called closely after the toolchange
10:08 AM slakwhere: yeah that's what threw me.
10:10 AM slakwhere: ok so just measure everything, dump it into the tool table in linuxcnc. then call any tool i want using the tool change button and touch off.
10:10 AM syyl: yes
10:11 AM slakwhere: T1 M6 won't set the offset by default in linuxCNC, right? i'd need to do T1 M6 and then G43 H1
10:11 AM syyl: and make sure you call not only the tool but also the offset
10:11 AM syyl: yes, correct
10:13 AM gregcnc: syyl how do you use the pin reference tool?
10:13 AM syyl: its just a 4mm carbide pin in a collet
10:13 AM syyl: i use it to touch off on my work in x/y and z
10:13 AM syyl: using a gageblock
10:14 AM gregcnc: to avoid using a cutting tool?
10:14 AM syyl: yes
10:15 AM syyl: (for x/y i often use a DTI in a collet, but for Z, almost always the pin + gageblock)
10:16 AM slakwhere: syyl: so if you do happen to crash it in Z setting the height, you've just blown your reference for all other tools?
10:16 AM syyl: and thats why we dont crash setup tools
10:16 AM slakwhere: or do you just go "backward", touch off on another known tool with an offset and then reset the value for your pin?
10:17 AM syyl: dont crash it :)
10:17 AM syyl: i would probably just re-measure everything
10:17 AM syyl: to be sure
10:17 AM slakwhere: suddenly seeing why a tool height setter / probe is so coveted
10:17 AM gregcnc: I touch tools to a z gage on the table and never use a reference tool
10:18 AM slakwhere: gregcnc: so then nothing in your tool library is zero?
10:18 AM gregcnc: no
10:18 AM slakwhere: is anything in your world zero?
10:18 AM syyl: lol
10:18 AM gregcnc: the only thing that matters is that all tools touch the same refernce
10:18 AM syyl: nothing needs to be zero
10:19 AM syyl: i think my reference tool has also some random length
10:19 AM syyl: (if i remember correctly i roughly measured the length of the tool against the gage-line of the taper)
10:19 AM FinboySlick: slakwhere: The entire galaxy is moving through space. Posisition zero is long gone.
10:20 AM slakwhere: FinboySlick: hahaha
10:21 AM slakwhere: i get that it's not actually necessary, all i really need is a relative measurement between tools and any measurement will do that as long as it's repeatable.
10:21 AM FinboySlick: We're on God's ever-updating G54
10:21 AM slakwhere: wouldn't god use absolute positioning? he's god. what's he need work offsets for? ;)
10:21 AM syyl: he uses irrational numbers
10:22 AM syyl: so its all not clear
10:22 AM slakwhere: so then last question. in my setup Z is up. i assume i want to use negative numbers for my tool lengths in the table?
10:22 AM FinboySlick: syyl: Looking at most country's budget, I'm pretty sure he's not the only one using irrational numbers.
10:22 AM syyl: lol ;)
10:23 AM gregcnc: money is not rational
10:26 AM gregcnc: syyl is swisstoolmaker a machinist or a curator of a machinetool museum?
10:26 AM syyl: lol
10:26 AM syyl: nope
10:26 AM syyl: he is a part-time engineer/homeshop machinist
10:27 AM gregcnc: he has the coolest tools and every gadget for them
10:27 AM syyl: https://williambrem.wixsite.com/mysite
10:27 AM syyl: thats his website
10:28 AM gregcnc: thanks
10:29 AM rmu: the negative budget numbers are even larger than typical astronomical numbers
10:33 AM slakwhere: syyl are your tools lengths stored as negative or positive?
10:33 AM syyl: positive
10:33 AM syyl: i rarely look into the tooltable
10:33 AM syyl: as i use the tool touch off button
10:34 AM slakwhere: so load tool 1 (your reference) and set z for g54 (or whatever offset)
10:34 AM slakwhere: then switch tools, touch off the new tool and hit the "touch off tool" button?
10:35 AM gregcnc: no need to touch the other tools if tool table is set
10:35 AM slakwhere: i meant to touch off a new tool to put it in the table
10:35 AM slakwhere: don't you have to know where the other tools think z is at the very least?
10:36 AM gregcnc: no
10:36 AM slakwhere: ok now i'm confused.
10:36 AM gregcnc: the absolute value of tool langth offsets doesn't matter
10:38 AM gregcnc: you can touch all tool the ot top of the vise(for instance) in G53 and it will work
10:39 AM slakwhere: oh so by using a physically known location (which is your process) you don't care what the actual value of the offset is
10:39 AM gregcnc: yes
10:40 AM gregcnc: but you are doing the same, just not in the machine
10:40 AM slakwhere: truth. essentially off the spindle face instead of the table, but still the same.
10:41 AM gregcnc: as long as you use a tool with it's offset to set work offsets, everything works
10:42 AM slakwhere: that makes perfect sense
10:44 AM slakwhere: basically i just need to pick a system, any system, and just use that. not try and mix and match.
10:45 AM gregcnc: now, in the lathe I have a tool that's Z0. , which is used to face stock to touch other tools
10:45 AM slakwhere: that makes sense
10:46 AM slakwhere: my lathe is still manual
10:47 AM slakwhere: guess it's time to measure some tools and do some sanity testing to make sure it works the way i expect
10:47 AM gregcnc: absolutely, there are a couple methods that are common
10:48 AM slakwhere: is there some (easy-ish) way to make the tool change button in linuxCNC also set the G43?
10:49 AM gregcnc: I could use the same method in the lathe, but there is no convenient Z reference
10:52 AM slakwhere: oh it maybe looks like gmoccapy does this for me, i'll just test.
10:52 AM slakwhere: thank you all for all the help :D
11:24 AM Rab: CaptHindsight, beep
12:13 PM * JT-Shop takes five with Dave Brubeck
12:18 PM fragalot: the deckel FP42NC arrived today
12:18 PM fragalot: a day sooner than planned
12:18 PM fragalot: thankfully the forklift rental company also had the forklift delivered a day before we asked
12:18 PM fragalot: lol
12:23 PM JT-Shop: got a good break for a change :)
12:24 PM * JT-Shop 30 more holes and I'm done working for the day
12:29 PM skunkworks: I love take five...
12:29 PM skunkworks: amazing jazz
12:29 PM gloops: i got another 10 cutters from china, 6x32mm single flute
12:29 PM gloops: drip drip of parcels - im getting stocked up
12:30 PM Loetmichel: sooo, FINALLY the Odyssee has an end. JUst got the new license plates for my car. 130eur in fees for changing the number. And the city License office is crazy with their appointment schedule... lost the front plate back in 21 december last year.
12:32 PM gloops: sounds like another nation paralysed by red tape
12:34 PM The_Ball: skunkworks, hows it going? long time
12:34 PM The_Ball: skunkworks, finally got my big MD5000 up and running
12:36 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: well, the machine doesn't actually power on
12:36 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: it boots up, but I can't get it to enable power to the drives
12:40 PM skunkworks: The_Ball: saw that - dad had sent me pictures of it (he reads the logs a lot)
12:45 PM skunkworks: Dad is trying to get his gantry crane going.. (had to create the drive for the long axis (gantry axis)
12:46 PM skunkworks: going to use vfd's to run the motors. (give a little acc/decel to the motion)
12:49 PM JT-Shop: fragalot: at least they didn't lose your machine :)
12:49 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/shop.JPG
12:55 PM fragalot: JT-Shop: :-)
01:03 PM gloops: https://news.sky.com/story/amazon-reveals-six-wheeled-scout-delivery-robot-11616473
01:04 PM fragalot: alternative title: "amazon screams for attention"
01:05 PM gloops: looks like something that could be picked up and thrown in a van
01:07 PM MarcelineVQ: "amazon reveals the T1 test model"
01:09 PM gloops: also - will be accompanied
01:10 PM * Rab places a delivery to West Oakland
01:11 PM MarcelineVQ: Even affluent areas are prone to people snatching deliveries off of doorsteps, moreso even, fragalot's reaction is probably the most apt
01:13 PM gloops: still, a practical version will probably soon be reality
01:14 PM MarcelineVQ: if police care enough to track down stolen robubs
01:15 PM MarcelineVQ: I sure wouldn't if I had that job
01:15 PM gregcnc: they don't track porch pirates now
01:15 PM gregcnc: except for a few stings
01:17 PM fragalot: which is why it's up to you to create a glitterbomb from hell.
01:17 PM gregcnc: you guys thought it was staged
01:18 PM Rab: It wasn't?
01:18 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: glitterbomb from hell is easy: just mount a 10000uF 63V electrolytic with reverse polarity on a 24V 25A PSU...
01:18 PM Loetmichel: MAN that was a loud bang
01:18 PM fragalot: haha
01:18 PM Loetmichel: and the smel....
01:18 PM Loetmichel: +l
01:19 PM Loetmichel: the confetti were nice though
01:19 PM gloops: just wants that thing the bank delivery guards have - you open the box - red dye sprays everywhere
01:19 PM Loetmichel: found pieces of aluminium covered mylar in every nook and cranny years later when we moved out of the workshop ;)
01:36 PM gloops: good idea https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/695383998690910510/
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: hi
02:01 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, which drives do you typically use with your linear stages? And what command interface do you use?
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: they are all different, from steppers and ballscrews on the low end to linear servo on the high
02:06 PM Rab: I have two of these collections of Parker stages, without the awesome tables: https://robertpuccinelli.com/assets/images/posts/170704_Arrayer3.jpg
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: I have used lots of parker
02:07 PM Rab: They came with Parker Gemini drives, which have both step/dir and +/-10V command interfaces. Step/dir is a familiar thing, but it seems like velocity control might be more performant if the drives can be programmed that way?
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: lots of great condition used Parker on ebay
02:09 PM Rab: I'd like to drive a gantry on a synchronized pair of stages, but I'm not sure an analog signal in the control loop is wise for that application.
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: I have run pairs of stages to double the power but they were mechanically coupled (big steel plate) and they used only one encoder for feedback
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: so 2 drives, 2 motors , 1 encoder and mechanically coupled
02:11 PM Rab: Step/dir seems like it wouldn't give the drive enough information to do built-in velocity planning, but I'm not sure how it works.
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: I haven't used step/dir with servos yet
02:12 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I see. Sounds like running on opposite ends of a gantry would be a racking problem waiting to happen.
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: I mean not for 2 stages synced
02:14 PM Rab: Have you used a +/-10V analog voltage interface with servo drives?
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: yeah mostly
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: same for galvos
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: properly wired I have never had noise issues
02:17 PM Rab: Which control hardware are you using? Mesa analog cards?
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: yes, mostly 7i77
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: they even drive galvos to 1-2Khz
02:21 PM Rab: Cool, thanks for the info!
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://imagebin.ca/v/4HCxDgSmsztG you can see the 2 linear servo drives side by side
02:23 PM gregcnc: Just how tall are you?
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: 7i77, rockwell/AB servos, AB drives
02:23 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, seen that pic before, that's a tough-looking machine. I guess the Z axis is some kind of ballscrew stage?
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: yeah was like 2mm pitch
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: was non contact inkjet few um res
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: had a curing laser as well
02:25 PM Rab: Does that table frame underneath support it in action, or was that just for assembly?
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: it was similar, big granite surface plate
02:31 PM gregcnc: https://www.instagram.com/p/BrWSX40AF-o/
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/a/vlH3Dap here's a pic with a printhead
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: that had $80K in positioners and servos
02:36 PM gregcnc: oh new linear axis smell
02:37 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: is that still selling for half the price of a single new ink cartridge?
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: since it was a new custom machine and inkjet it was a one use printer :)
02:40 PM fragalot: c:P
02:40 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, interesting application. Do you know the intended workpiece?
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: yeah was for a silicon valley fruit co
02:41 PM Rab: Haha!
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: could print a drop of ink into a hairline on a consumer electronics enclosure
02:42 PM fragalot: custom printed clementines
02:42 PM Rab: They must have really wanted to do whatever they were doing.
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: had laser mics on it to account for machine drift over temp
02:44 PM Rab: gregcnc, the author claims the base is granite, but in the video it looks like a giant chunk of MDF. ;)
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: I'll juts say that the machine travel was big enough to hold a laptop
02:46 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: That's not saying much... https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/2CEAAOSwMQBaMfAO/$_86.JPG
02:46 PM fragalot: I've been really tempted by one of those
02:47 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: or this even http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kyjZ7c9H9YE/UbxB-kBBvRI/AAAAAAAACDQ/pKme8DL9RE8/s1600/world's+smallest+laptop+(3).jpg
02:47 PM Jymmm: fragalot: Not worth it in the least imo
02:47 PM fragalot: Jymmm: not even the new gen one,
02:47 PM fragalot: ?
02:47 PM Jymmm: fragalot: $600+ USD
02:48 PM fragalot: well yeah, but the combination of form-factor & performance from that little thing was pretty good
02:48 PM fragalot: but that price tag is indeed the reason I haven't actually bought it :P
02:48 PM fragalot: (That, and they're not available 'round here)
02:48 PM Jymmm: fragalot: For that price, you can get 3 or even 4 chromebooks and put linux on them
02:49 PM fragalot: my GF has a chromebook from work
02:49 PM fragalot: I do not want a chromebook.
02:49 PM Jymmm: fragalot: I have a netbook, it's nice but a phablet offers more
02:49 PM Jymmm: fragalot: and install linux on it I said
02:49 PM Jymmm: fragalot: the chromebook that is
02:50 PM Rab: <$600 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MMSQ9ZM
02:50 PM Jymmm: it's VERY NICE hardware
02:50 PM fragalot: it's not necessarily the OS that bothers me
02:51 PM Jymmm: I was VERY surprised with the performance of this... https://www.bestbuy.com/site/acer-15-6-chromebook-intel-celeron-4gb-memory-16gb-emmc-flash-memory-granite-gray/6170703.p?skuId=6170703
02:51 PM fragalot: Rab: that's the one. :-)
02:52 PM Jymmm: fragalot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFbvAJ6eUCY
02:52 PM Rab: 15.6" 1366x768 :(
02:53 PM Rab: I can't see any attraction to the chromebook stuff. I bought a loaded (used) 15" i7 Thinkpad for that money.
02:54 PM Jymmm: During the fire, it was a lifesaver for so many reasons.
02:54 PM fragalot: I'm using a fairly new inspiron 15 5000 atm
02:54 PM fragalot: works well
02:54 PM Jymmm: just logged in and was set,
02:55 PM fragalot: except for the random 'q' showing up every now & again when typing ideqas
02:55 PM fragalot: i d e a s
02:59 PM skunkworks: my current favorite laptop is a MSI gs60 4th gen...
02:59 PM skunkworks: only thing that sucks is the battery ife
02:59 PM skunkworks: life
02:59 PM skunkworks: i7
03:00 PM skunkworks: (I mean it isn't bad... it probably runs for 3-4 hours depending
03:02 PM Jymmm: skunkworks: I get 50 minutes on my luggable laptop =)
03:03 PM skunkworks: it is the first laptop that I have been sucessful at passing the dedicated video card to a vm..
03:04 PM skunkworks: the second sucky thing is that it doesn't actually connect the dedicated video directly to a external video port. (muxless)
03:04 PM Jymmm: Um you have a laptop you can change the video card/chipset?
03:04 PM skunkworks: no.
03:05 PM skunkworks: primus style laptop
03:05 PM Jymmm: no clue, but thats ok
03:05 PM skunkworks: (switchable graphics)
03:05 PM Jymmm: switchable between what?
03:06 PM Jymmm: like an accessable gpu?
03:06 PM skunkworks: I was so excited I made a couple of videos.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oewzzB54MZk&t=54s
03:06 PM skunkworks: I was so excited I made a couple of videos.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oewzzB54MZk&t
03:07 PM skunkworks: it has the intel video card + a nvidia gtx860m
03:08 PM skunkworks: 'gaming' laptop
03:08 PM Rab: Jymmm, a lot of laptops now have two graphics adapters. A basic one integrated into the MB chipset, and a fancy one with a name-brand GPU.
03:09 PM Jymmm: Rab: ah
03:09 PM skunkworks: ^ sorry - yes. exactly
03:10 PM Rab: Which on a good day gives you two chances to get your laptop working with Linux, and on a bad day causes all kinds of complication: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/bumblebee
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: nah that's just Arch linux :)
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: if you want to learn how to debug Linux use Arch
03:15 PM fragalot: or Gentoo
03:16 PM skunkworks: I have only gotten bumblebee working once on an ubuntu install
03:16 PM skunkworks: I turn the dedicated video on and off using acpi calls.
03:16 PM skunkworks: acpi?
03:16 PM Jymmm: skunkworks: nice video
03:16 PM skunkworks: that's right - acpi
03:17 PM Jymmm: (no pun intended)
03:17 PM skunkworks: Jymmm: thanks.
03:17 PM Jymmm: skunkworks: is it sad that I got excited the most by seeing minecraft?
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: i haven't touched nvidia sine the 90's
03:18 PM skunkworks: minecraft?
03:18 PM Jymmm: the game
03:19 PM XXCoder: minecraft is heck of a lot of fun
03:19 PM Jymmm: I dont have it (want it) but no win boxes
03:20 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: 90's? I thought it was all about maxtor & voodoo cards!
03:21 PM fragalot: with the 1m20 tower PC's with (cold) swappable harddisk bays
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: S3 graphics
03:23 PM fragalot: I remember having to swap harddisks, where one had my games on, and the other had office tools
03:24 PM fragalot: the full 4GB!
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: nvidia never supported open source so we rarely used them in designs
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: was mostly AMD/ATI and Via/S3
03:28 PM Jymmm: 4MegaByte VIDEO
03:29 PM FinboySlick: skunkworks: Have you played with qemu pci passthrough?
03:40 PM Deejay: gn8
03:48 PM skunkworks: FinboySlick: yes
03:51 PM FinboySlick: skunkworks: Oh, duh, title... I thought from the video that you were using virtualbox.
03:52 PM skunkworks: No - didn't have good luck with virtualbox and rt_preemt
03:53 PM FinboySlick: I never used the a qemu gui so I got a bit confused.
03:53 PM Jymmm: isn't KVM Type 1 ?
03:53 PM FinboySlick: They're slowly working on a windows driver for virgl, that would be even better than passthrough.
03:54 PM FinboySlick: Can't wait for that to be done.
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: I see two main problems, people don't want to pay for open source development and good open source developer go elsewhere
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: why these projects only sort of work
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: after that it's all the drama created by toxic devs when good devs work on projects on their own time
04:04 PM FinboySlick: I'm pretty sure open source will outlive just about everything. It just takes a lot longer to get there.
04:04 PM FinboySlick: Though the browser situation has me worried.
04:04 PM SpeedEvil: And mobile.
04:05 PM FinboySlick: Chrome is eating everything and Mozilla keeps shoving crayons up its nose.
04:05 PM SpeedEvil: But they're chrome crayons!
04:05 PM FinboySlick: And eating Rust glue.
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: well the open browser will be non chrome
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: probably won't be by Mozilla
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: likely a fork
04:05 PM HighInBC: ya b ut all browsers suck
04:06 PM HighInBC: open source or otherwise
04:06 PM Jymmm: Netscape 4.79 FTW
04:06 PM HighInBC: hehe
04:06 PM HighInBC: Mosaic 1.1
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: systemD and Chrome is being shoved at us
04:07 PM FinboySlick: Among other more insidious monsters.
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: like non-systemD distros, there will be other browsers and tools
04:08 PM FinboySlick: But it's time to go home now.
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: sad to see it happen like this
04:09 PM XXCoder: chrome is apple of browsers
04:09 PM rmu: upstart was way worse tham systemd
04:09 PM XXCoder: they hide a lot of stuff
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: lots of sneaky stuff going on now
04:10 PM FinboySlick: rmu: There were problems with all the init systems but fixing problems is better than trying to reinvent the wheel. OpenRC is doing rather well and I have no complaint about it.
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: say it's for one thing and it's really for tracking/spying etc
04:11 PM rmu: i never liked the mess with 100 different init scripts
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: Fedora was talking about UID numbers for every install
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: so that they know the number of installs :)
04:11 PM phipli: hehe
04:11 PM FinboySlick: rmu: You'd rather have 100 different impossible to figure out binary blobs?
04:12 PM phipli: migrated a Arm server to a new machine and broke my sftp auto upload script
04:12 PM phipli: spent hours trying to work why it stopped working
04:12 PM XXCoder: problem is they may know number of installs... but how do they know when installs is not installed anymore?
04:12 PM phipli: finally realised that when it was connecting, it was been presented with the first connection "are you sure you want to continue? yes/no" prompt and failing
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: they just want to track you
04:12 PM rmu: FinboySlick: daemon management is not spread over 100 binaries
04:12 PM * phipli hangs head in shame
04:13 PM FinboySlick: rmu: No, they're in-memory completely opaque things now.
04:13 PM rmu: don't understand what you are talking about
04:15 PM rmu: init scripts are/were a mess. some include some distro specific libraries, some not, not clear where to look for logfiles, how PID files are managed/put etc. etc. etc., some scripts need bash, some dont want bash
04:15 PM FinboySlick: rmu: So standardize the scripts then, don't re-invent a binary database with impossible to understand xml configs.
04:15 PM rmu: then you get inittab, inetd, daemontools, supervisor and what else
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: sure but thats not the point of systemd
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: everyone sure jumped on that bandwagon pretty fast
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: and you weren't allowed to criticize it
04:17 PM FinboySlick: It just gives up on the 'every tool has one specific job' philosophy of unix.
04:17 PM rmu: i find it works remarkably well. it has been critizied to hell and back. then the ad hominem attacks on the devs.
04:18 PM rmu: no it does not. else it would be one binary.
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: with x86 cpu's and chipsets they just stopped publishing init specs and quietly introduced management engines with out of band access to the PC
04:19 PM rmu: running minix ;)
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
04:20 PM FinboySlick: rmu: Well, in many people's experience, windows works remarkably well too.
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: they already have that backdoor, seems one or two is not enough
04:21 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: source code of systemd is available, you can audit it if you want, or use openbsd
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: or gentoo
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: devuan
04:21 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: have a look at the linux kernel and the problems it has. good luck finding a backdoor there. no need to backdoor userspace.
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: there are never enough backdoors!
04:22 PM FinboySlick: rmu: Don't you find that it sounds a bit like "We've taken over, move to some other place please."
04:22 PM rmu: i need only one.
04:23 PM rmu: FinboySlick: for me it sounds like "this discussion is settled. whoever doesn't want to doesn't need to."
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: "I don't mind"
04:24 PM rmu: even debian decided that (limited) developer resources are better spent than simultanously maintaining 3 different and incompatible init systems
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: "but I want to inject you with window cleaner so your brain dies last" , "I don't mind"
04:25 PM gloops: like Clint said 'if you want a guarantee, buy a toaster'
04:26 PM rmu: only 2 things are guaranteed in life, 1) inifiteness of human stupidity and 2) death
04:26 PM gloops: and taxes
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: gloops: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fbi-surveillance-internet-of-things_us_56b4d6f0e4b04f9b57d957fc
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: The FBI Could Be Eavesdropping On Your Toaster
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: might be Mi6 in your position
05:31 PM gloops: well, i never talk in the kitchen in the morning anyway
05:31 PM andypugh: If MI^ are listening to my toaaster then perhaps it is time to buy a “Talky Toaster” to drive them mad.
05:35 PM The_Ball: skunkworks, wow, that's attention to detail (your dad reading the logs) lol
05:40 PM The_Ball: skunkworks, btw been using kvm with a dedicated gpu for years, just started using lookingglass with win10 which is quite handy
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: anyone every have noise issues with analog +-10V servo controls?
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: I don't
05:43 PM rmu: i have an issue with drifting zero point
05:44 PM rmu: seems to change slowly with temperature of the servo drive
05:45 PM andypugh: Zero posiiton, or zero speed?
05:45 PM CaptHindsight: does having a wider deadband help?
05:46 PM rmu: zero speed
05:46 PM andypugh: That’s normal. The PID position control keeps it under control
05:46 PM rmu: yeah, but it needs an I term
05:47 PM andypugh: So?
05:47 PM andypugh: You have an I term, why do you feel it is bad to use it?
05:47 PM rmu: i don't
06:10 PM hazzy-m: how does one run emccalib from a terminal? I can't find the commnad
06:10 PM andypugh: Good question.
06:11 PM andypugh: It looks to be this file here? https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/tcl/bin/emccalib.tcl
06:12 PM hazzy-m: yes, that is it
06:12 PM andypugh: It looks like an executable filr
06:12 PM hazzy-m: halshow can be launched directaly, but I assume Ineed to use tclsh to run emccalib.tcl, but I keep getting errors
06:13 PM andypugh: It seems to be a shell script
06:14 PM andypugh: #!/bin.sh
06:15 PM hazzy-m: it does, with that shabang, but it just hangs the terminal if I run it directly
06:15 PM hazzy-m: hmm
06:16 PM * hazzy-m looks at how axis launches it
06:17 PM andypugh: Well, if it makes you feel better, it doesn’t work for me either :-)
06:18 PM andypugh: It seems to expect two command line parameters. Or maybe one. Not sure what $@ is
06:19 PM andypugh: I am glad to have my horizontal spindle surprisingly often. This might become a proper edited video at some point.
06:19 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwNT5t6lb1I&feature=youtu.be
06:20 PM andypugh: But I am cutting a V-way groove in the bottom of a lathe fixed steady. And I am not sure how I would have done it with a normal vertical mill
06:21 PM rmu: "$@" forwards the arguments (any number, incl. 0)
06:22 PM hazzy-m: using the t-slot for cutter clearance, nice!
06:22 PM hazzy-m: a little more luck with:
06:22 PM hazzy-m: tclsh /usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc/bin/emccalib.tcl --ini /home/kurt/linuxcnc/configs/sim.axis/axis.ini
06:23 PM hazzy-m: not it complains about not having a connection to LCNC, which is valid since LCNC is not running
06:26 PM andypugh: It looks like it ought to run as a shell script
06:27 PM andypugh: Though it’s npt clear to me how
06:29 PM andypugh: Of course, if I do edit and publish that video, I will take out all the random bits and the stuff where I am worrying about end-float in my Z-drive. Also the facial close-ups. Ewww!
06:30 PM rmu: is is supposed to be run as shell script. i think it was done this way to avoid hardcoding the path to tclsh into the script
06:31 PM rmu: /usr/bin/env
06:31 PM rmu: oups
06:32 PM hazzy-m: http://dpaste.com/0CCSRMT
06:33 PM hazzy-m: seems like it might require the HALLIB_DIR env var set
06:34 PM Tom_L: andypugh, vertical: could have held the cutter like a slitting saw and the part in a vise although it may not have been as sturdy
06:35 PM Tom_L: i tried a slitting saw on mine a while back but the spindle just didn't have the hp
06:35 PM andypugh: Tom_L: It’s a wierd shape, the only other machined reference face is the one clamed to the bed.
06:36 PM Tom_L: i see
06:38 PM andypugh: Not great photos, bit here is one mounted on the lathe https://photos.app.goo.gl/RKCtxUZUyQzYJdQo8
06:39 PM andypugh: (needs scraping-in)
06:39 PM andypugh: But lots more machining first.
06:39 PM Tom_L: yet another lathe...
06:40 PM andypugh: Actually, that reminds me. Has anyone ever felt the need to use a travelling steady?
06:40 PM andypugh: Tom_L: No, this is the same lathe as usual.
06:40 PM andypugh: I have only ever had 4. No, 5.
06:40 PM andypugh: I still have three of them.
06:41 PM Tom_L: if you're cutting small diameter long parts the steady could be handy
06:42 PM Tom_L: we ran alot of brass on the 6 spindles that used similar arrangement
06:42 PM andypugh: Current Rivett (living room) Colchester Triumph (my dad’s workshop). Holbrook Minor (my workshop). I had a micro lathe that I sold for being too micro and a 9x20 that I sold for being tool Chinese.
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: who is the guy on the horizontal mill?
06:42 PM Tom_L: probably in the 3/8" diameter range
06:42 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: The fat bloke with the santa beard? That’s me
06:43 PM Tom_L: santa clause
06:43 PM andypugh: My beard turned white. In about a year.
06:43 PM CaptHindsight: you changed your look since the fest in 13
06:44 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: I got older.
06:44 PM CaptHindsight: we all have
06:44 PM Jymmm: speak for yourself
06:44 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight you were there?
06:45 PM andypugh: Though this currrent beard is a bit of an abberation.
06:45 PM andypugh: Tom_L: Yes, he was
06:45 PM andypugh: But under a differnt name
06:45 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: yeah, forget which days
06:46 PM CaptHindsight: spent 6 extra hours at the airport trying to leave
06:46 PM Tom_L: new airport now
06:46 PM Tom_L: trying to smuggle goods?
06:47 PM Tom_L: :)
06:47 PM CaptHindsight: I forgot to check the flight before I left the fest
06:47 PM CaptHindsight: i turn in my rental car and go to check in to find my flight has not even left Chicago yet
06:52 PM hazzy-m: noob question on DIN terminal blocks: I have a bunch of triple stack blocks, that I am going to be connecting three wire proxy switches to.
06:52 PM hazzy-m: I was hoping to use two of the rows for power and ground, and one for the signal. So one block per switch.
06:53 PM hazzy-m: does this make sense, and what is the standard way to gang the blocks togeter for the power and ground?
06:53 PM andypugh: I haven’t used multi-stak blocks
06:54 PM andypugh: But single-stacks have commoning bars available.
06:55 PM hazzy-m: yeah, it seems easy to gang the singe stack ones, but I don't see any provision for doing so on the triple stack ones. Seems like that would be the main use for stacked blocks
06:56 PM andypugh: It seems you can common the top one
06:56 PM hazzy-m: I guess I could just use little Us of wire to link the blocks, but that seems like a pain lol
06:56 PM andypugh: Actually…
06:56 PM andypugh: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/non-fused-din-rail-terminals/0454542/
06:57 PM andypugh: These can all be commones
06:57 PM andypugh: There is a top-hole and threaded hols for each level
06:57 PM hazzy-m: oh! That is exactly what I need!
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: the fest was in 13, someone had pics but i can't find any now
06:58 PM Tom_L: sam had em
06:58 PM hazzy-m: andypugh: thanks, now I know they exist at least
06:59 PM andypugh: It seems pretty common, once you know what to look for
06:59 PM andypugh: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/non-fused-din-rail-terminals/5076973/
07:00 PM andypugh: Even the cheap one: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/non-fused-din-rail-terminals/7637444/
07:01 PM flyback: https://www.caliper2pc.de/en_index.html
07:15 PM Jymmm: Eh, just twist al the wies together and wrap in duct tape.... what could go wrong?!
07:17 PM andypugh: flyback: Are you selling, asking, suggesting?
07:17 PM andypugh: (I wonder if linuxCNC could bit-bang the SPC protocol?)
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/gallery/vxvCk1M this pic was going around earlier
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: not an easy fix
07:19 PM andypugh: Blame whoever set cables direct in concrete.
07:20 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: Especially if it was 20’ down.
07:22 PM andypugh: I guess ypou have to start digging with chisels down to that level, making a hole big enough for an electrician.
07:31 PM justan0theruser is now known as justanotheruser
07:48 PM sparq: I'm shopping for a CNC microlathe, and trying to wrap my brain around the long-term implications for what kind of spindle I go with. Will I regret not springing for a 5C spindle up front? i.e., how much of a pain in the neck will it be if I accumulate tooling for a E16, and then upgrade to a 5C later?
07:52 PM andypugh: I confess I am not familiar with the class of tool you are talking about
07:53 PM gregcnc: somewhat depends on the work you're doing
07:53 PM andypugh: 5C are cheaper than most
07:54 PM gregcnc: 5C vs ER16 is taig?
07:56 PM andypugh: 5C 1/2” is $38. My lathe takes 4NS. A 1/2” 4NS collet is $220
07:56 PM andypugh: https://www.shophardinge.com/Search.aspx?str=4NS&catid0=1625
07:56 PM andypugh: E16 NE ER16
07:57 PM andypugh: So we need to be clear what he means..
07:57 PM andypugh: sparq: Still there?
07:58 PM gregcnc: E16 is obsolete
07:58 PM flyback: andypugh, no but I known for yrs
07:58 PM flyback: people found even the $2 calipers
07:58 PM flyback: a lot of times have a hidden serial uart
07:58 PM flyback: and I guess someone came upw ith software I guess for graphicing continiously
07:59 PM flyback: just thought it looked insteresting but expensive
07:59 PM flyback: there's plenty of ways to do the capture etc free
08:00 PM andypugh: flyback: That was my thinking
08:00 PM andypugh: rene_dev_: Are you still awake?
08:00 PM flyback: I bet that's damn useful
08:00 PM flyback: even if it's not that well accurate
08:00 PM flyback: taking many sample points around a long shaft etc
08:00 PM gregcnc: The only lathe I know of with ER16 and 5C spindle options is the taig
08:01 PM andypugh: Well, we need him to act like he is stil there...
08:02 PM sparq: andypugh: yep, spilled my coffee :-)
08:06 PM andypugh: So, do you mean ER16 or E16?
08:07 PM sparq: Yeah, I'm looking at Sherline and Taig lathes (and similar sized machines). There are some options for a 5C spindle, which I'm givin to understand is pretty common on larger machines?
08:08 PM * sparq checkes the specifications
08:08 PM gregcnc: 5C tooling is common
08:09 PM gregcnc: With collet stops or soft emergency collets handy for second operations
08:09 PM andypugh: And you can get 4-jaw and 3-jaw chucks on a 5C mount.
08:10 PM andypugh: COuld be convenient
08:10 PM gregcnc: I don' thtink that's an option with this lathe
08:10 PM gregcnc: http://www.taigtools.com/c1015-5C.html
08:10 PM andypugh: Isn’t ER16 significantly smaller than 5C?
08:11 PM gregcnc: http://www.taigtools.com/taigturn2000.html
08:11 PM gregcnc: yes, 10mm thru vs ~26mm for 5C
08:11 PM andypugh: I was going to say that I would go for 5C. But then I realised I would never buy such a small lathe
08:12 PM andypugh: You can make tiny things on a big lathe, but not the reverse
08:12 PM sparq: Let's see... the base model Sherline spindle is 3/4"-16 T.P.I. with a #1 Morse taper. Taig's base model spindle is a "3/4 in. - 16 (3/4 in. SAE)", which doesn't seem to be exactly the same hting.
08:13 PM sparq: andypugh: Yeah, I just don't have the space of money for a bigger lathe, and I'm curious what I can do with the hackability of the microlathes.
08:13 PM andypugh: sparq: You might find this interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CfzNqDR7M
08:26 PM sparq: andypugh: Yeah, this is exaclty why I'm wondering about spindles. I'd like to avoid having a bunch of incompatible tools.
08:28 PM andypugh: What’s the difference in price?
08:28 PM sparq: about $500
08:28 PM andypugh: Ah
08:28 PM andypugh: I would expect an entire lathe for that
08:30 PM sparq: The basic Taig costs about $500. The 5C spindle by itself is also about $500, and the packages including the 5C spindle start at about $750.
08:30 PM andypugh: Roger (in the video) obviously spent a fair bit more.
08:30 PM sparq: Heh. Yep.
08:31 PM andypugh: I spent £1000 on my lathe, £500 on castings, £750 on Mesa cards and a lot of time.
08:32 PM * sparq nods
08:33 PM andypugh: So, from my perspective it would be the 5C option. But when I _started_ on this journey I would have been making different choices. ie back when this wasn’t my main hobby.
08:34 PM * sparq nods
08:34 PM sparq: I live in a loft apartment -- basically one huge room with a mezanine and a bathroom. So, a hard constraint is that I have to be able to pick up the machine and put it away when I'm not using it.
08:35 PM andypugh: But 5C tooling is cheaper than most. Maybe you can persuade yourself that you will save money in the long term
08:35 PM andypugh: I am still not sure I would get a Taig though.
08:35 PM sparq: no?
08:36 PM andypugh: I am a bit of a “has to be cast-iron” snob
08:36 PM sparq: Ah.
08:37 PM sparq: The rack-and-pinion Z-axis looks like it runs a little fast to me, but people seem to get great results out of them anyway.
08:37 PM andypugh: So possibly might look at a Cowells (but those are not CNC)
08:37 PM sparq: Eh. I want to do the CNC conversion myself anyway.
08:38 PM andypugh: Look, I am not you. And you will be a different you in 5 years. All you can do is make your own choice now.
08:39 PM andypugh: And the Cowells lathes are nearer $3000
08:39 PM sparq: True. I'm just trying to avoid painting myself into a corner w.r.t. tooling.
08:41 PM sparq: Since I don't have a lathe, I don't have a good sense of what issues are likely to crop up as a result of my choice of spindle.
08:42 PM andypugh: Well, near;y everything I make is made in a chuck. I very rarely use collets.
08:42 PM * sparq nods
08:42 PM andypugh: (and I do have a choice of Multisize or 5C collet chucks, it isn’t for lack of options)
08:43 PM andypugh: On a tiny lathe the choices might be different.
08:43 PM gregcnc: if you need a chuck or four jaw chuck, that would make a big difference
08:44 PM andypugh: I am not clear if the ER16 version can hold a chuck, I would assume so
08:44 PM sparq: Yeah, it comes with one.
08:45 PM andypugh: So, the ER16 has a threaded nose for chucks, and the 5C can mount a chuck on a 5C shaft.
08:45 PM andypugh: I would assume a much bigger through-hole with the 5C option, and through-hole is useful.
08:46 PM sparq: exactly
08:46 PM andypugh: It’s only $250 of someone else’s money. I would say 5C :-)
08:46 PM sparq: haha
08:47 PM sparq: I started considering the 5C spindle after looking at example projects (e.g., Clickspring's jeweler's hammer project), and wondering how I would hold the thing without being able to pass it into the spindle bore. But maybe I'm just not thinking creatively enough?
08:47 PM andypugh: And I should have been asleep hours ago, I need to be up in 6 hours to make my own money.
08:47 PM sparq: oh, well, get that sleep then, and thanks for chatting!
08:48 PM andypugh: sparq: No, not really. Through-spindle size is about 50% of why I changed up from a Chinese 9x20 to an old English 10x20
08:49 PM sparq: That's good to know
08:49 PM andypugh: The on-paper capacity is not so different, but look at this picture showing the chinese 9 x 20 ailstock on the 10 x 20 bed… https://photos.app.goo.gl/UJmCrNsWdBcaaDUG7
08:51 PM sparq: Ha! Quite the wide stance on those ways.
08:51 PM andypugh: Quite.
08:51 PM sparq: Does that make it more difficult to true?
08:52 PM andypugh: I am nit sure what you are asking?
08:52 PM andypugh: The Holbrook is just better in every way except portability.
08:53 PM sparq: I'm just going through the process of removing twist from the ways, and it seems like a wider separation between the rails would make that a little more work.
08:53 PM sparq: er, ways, not rails.
08:53 PM andypugh: (and one big plus is the D1-4 spindle nose, which isn’t directly comparable to your question, but hints the same choices)
08:54 PM andypugh: I am not sure that the Holbrook would ever twist.
08:55 PM sparq: Huh. I've giving to understand that all machines eventually develop some twist as they wear.
08:55 PM andypugh: I mean, in theory, maybe… But look at the depth of the bed… https://photos.app.goo.gl/AVJTDV8ZE1i8QXoHA
08:56 PM Tom_L: mmm nearly 3am :) you're gonna pay tomorrow
08:56 PM sparq: Oh, sure. I guess most people I know have bought giant machines that needed a lot of work.
08:57 PM sparq: My friend Will's lathe is... 8 tons, or thereabouts, and he still has to correct for twist every year or so.
08:57 PM andypugh: I like how it’s the “Minor” as it is only 10” swing, but weighs 2 tons.
08:58 PM sparq: But that could be because he's mostly interested in metrology.
08:58 PM Tom_L: that is a hefty hunk of iron
08:59 PM sparq: 2 tons and 10"? What a little chonker! :-)
08:59 PM andypugh: Yes, there is that. I make parts for 1910-1925 vehicles. I don’t particularly worry about the machinery as long as the parts are coming out right.
08:59 PM hazzy-m: thats like a 10EE
08:59 PM andypugh: hazzy-m: Like a 10EE + 30% more iron.
09:00 PM andypugh: The cosmetic covers are half an inch thick. It’s crazy
09:00 PM hazzy-m: that is stout!
09:01 PM andypugh: Anyway, to bed! You can read all about the Minor here: http://www.lathes.co.uk/holbrook-minor/
09:01 PM hazzy-m: finally figured out how to launch emccalib, it needs the proper env vars set
09:01 PM hazzy-m: http://dpaste.com/1RZQSKH
09:04 PM hazzy-m: wow, there is a lot of meat in that lathe, just the apron looks like it would weight a few hundred
09:23 PM skunkworks: hazzy-m: what does emccalib do?
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: did you have pics up somewhere of the fest in 13 or 14?
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: Wichita
09:31 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: let me look
09:32 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/Fest2013/
09:32 PM hazzy-m: skunkworks: It is a GUI tool that lets you change HAL parameters on a running system, mostly used for calibrating PIDs
09:33 PM skunkworks: ah
09:33 PM hazzy-m: I'm sure you've used it, I think it is the calibration menu item in axis
09:33 PM skunkworks: ah - use it a lot
09:34 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: ^
09:35 PM CaptHindsight: thanks
09:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/gallery/j8AyoKL