Jan 10 2019
12:24 AM CaptHindsight: what is the going rate per hour for PLC programming?
12:28 AM CaptHindsight: mostly AB PLC's
01:55 AM miss0r: mornin'
03:15 AM Deejay: moin
04:49 AM jthornton: morning
04:52 AM XXCoder: yo
06:53 AM Net|: https://offgridsite.com/hemp-is-legal-industrial-hemp-the-off-grid-cash-crop-is-now-legal-in-usa
07:00 AM elmo40: that is interesting.
08:09 AM syyl: hey
08:10 AM syyl: the 12000bps myford just got cheaper
08:10 AM syyl: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Myford-ML7-lathe-240-volts-Beeston-Nottingham-Machine/202472039175?hash=item2f24462307:g:ipUAAOSwohVcNMRC:rk:1:pf:0
08:10 AM syyl: slightly cheaper
10:00 AM pcw_home: that's a new one to me spam/virus as .iso file
10:28 AM Jymmm: pcw_home: ???
10:29 AM Jymmm: pcw_home: iso virus???
10:33 AM The_Ball is now known as Guest51424
10:38 AM CaptHindsight: what is the going rate per hour for PLC programming?
10:38 AM Jymmm: how many hours?
10:40 AM CaptHindsight: wow, does it matter? OK, figure it's a new machine design, could take from a day to a week
10:41 AM CaptHindsight: might be a few weeks per machine
10:42 AM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Well, if it's a one off job (update/revision) I'd charge more due to the short duration. If it's longer will include maintance contract, then you could charge less just to keep the client(s) long term.
10:43 AM CaptHindsight: can't source it ti India since the freight takes too long
10:43 AM Jymmm: Plc Programmer Annual Salary ($74,070 Avg | Jan 2019)
10:43 AM Jymmm: That's as an employee, not a contractor
10:45 AM CaptHindsight: thats only ~ $37/hr
10:48 AM gloops: hmm, french industrial output down, as well as germany, looking like a recession is here
10:48 AM gloops: german car exports down 10%
10:49 AM CaptHindsight: China has been slowing down the past few years
10:49 AM CaptHindsight: is this any surprise about world production slowing?
10:49 AM gregcnc: we're shutting down completely
10:52 AM gloops: well, fragile situation in europe, and china i suppose
10:53 AM CaptHindsight: China managed to pull up a few hundred million from poverty the past 3 decades....
10:53 AM flyback: gregcnc, where are you?
10:53 AM CaptHindsight: all the while the west has been working on destroying the middle class
10:54 AM flyback: yeah china has softened a bit on their hard communism
10:54 AM flyback: I am not saying it's a great place to be but they generated so much wealth they had to loosen a bit
10:54 AM gregcnc: USA
10:54 AM flyback: venezula is just fucked
10:54 AM flyback: gregcnc, ah me too
10:54 AM CaptHindsight: China has run out of places to sell its crap and is now trading loans and building projects for natural resources and control
10:54 AM flyback: I heard you say shutting down I figured mabye you were talking about germany, their chancelor is a diptshit
10:55 AM gregcnc: no, we need a wall to stay open for business
10:55 AM CaptHindsight: flyback: you have it backwards, China is doubling down on comminess
10:55 AM gloops: if the germany economy tanks the euro will collapse
10:55 AM flyback: I hope uk does pull out of the eu
10:55 AM flyback: even if it's only temporary
10:55 AM gloops: i suspect an economic death spiral with global repercussions is looming
10:56 AM gregcnc: you suspect a lot of things
10:56 AM CaptHindsight: it's only bad for the middle classes in the west
10:56 AM gloops: flyback it doesnt look like the elite are going to allow it
10:56 AM gregcnc: fake money and exponential growth just isn't sustainable
10:56 AM flyback: because the eu has become a bunch of fatass arrogant jerks who lost the memory of the word "no"
10:56 AM flyback: gloops, oh well the attempt was still awesome
10:56 AM CaptHindsight: China is trying to keep their middle from becoming upset..
10:56 AM flyback: it make the eu flinch
10:57 AM gloops: there wont be an EU in its present form for long anyway i dont think
10:57 AM flyback: im ok with a eu
10:57 AM flyback: I just don't like the arrogance
10:57 AM gloops: yes its pissed a lot of people off
10:57 AM CaptHindsight: but in case they do they are already keeping them under constant surveillance and unaware of the outside world
10:57 AM flyback: "how dare you disagree with the eu"
10:58 AM flyback: that's what caused brexit
10:58 AM CaptHindsight: as much as they can
10:58 AM flyback: gloops, if brexit caused members of the eu to stop for 1ms and ask for another opinion
10:58 AM flyback: instead of just rubber stamping everything
10:58 AM flyback: then it's awesome
10:59 AM flyback: EVEN FOR ONLY 1MS
10:59 AM SpeedEvil: No, it isn't.
10:59 AM gloops: flyback and now the elite in our own parliament is trying to thwart the brexit vote
10:59 AM flyback: we aren't going to agree on this speed sorry
10:59 AM SpeedEvil: What caused brexit is internal conservative party politics.
10:59 AM gloops: less than 50% chance we will leave
10:59 AM SpeedEvil: It was never actually intended to happen, no plans were made for it at all.
10:59 AM SpeedEvil: And the train continues rolling on as the leadership can't back down.
11:00 AM gloops: they conned us like this when we joined the EU - first referendum we said NO, they doctored the words of the deal a bit had another vote and got YES
11:00 AM flyback: anyways time for work
11:00 AM flyback: 12pm I leave around 1230
11:00 AM flyback: nothing you said SpeedEvil :)
11:01 AM flyback: I spend 1-2 hrs sitting on irc waiting for my dieased colon to make up it's mind
11:01 AM flyback: fortunitely work understands which sis why I am still there after 12 yrs and got a raise
11:01 AM flyback: bbl
11:02 AM flyback: SpeedEvil understands
11:02 AM flyback: way worse than I do
11:02 AM flyback: feeling like a prisoner in your own body
11:02 AM flyback: cheers
11:02 AM gloops: i wonder if my mrs will be ok with pork chops for the 3rd day in a row
11:02 AM flyback: do something different with them
11:03 AM Rab: flyback, I thought you were in Canada.
11:03 AM flyback: bbq etc
11:03 AM flyback: rab no I just hate canadians (not really, running joke)
11:03 AM gloops: easier to just fry
11:03 AM flyback: peace
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: no go cannuck yourself?!
11:21 AM The_Ball: My toolsetting probe is triggering during heavy cuts, what logic do you guys use to inhibit triggering?
11:21 AM ziper: CaptHindsight, have you machined composites?
11:23 AM CaptHindsight: ziper: machined and printed
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: composites just means multiple materials >1
11:24 AM ziper: carbon fiber?
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: cheese and concrete
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: CF is machined all the time
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: cheap epoxy and CF
11:25 AM ziper: how close is fiberglass? That is, can I make up a test part from FG and find a process that works and trust it will work in CF?
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: thin sheets? <3mm
11:27 AM ziper: more like 10 or 20mm
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: well they are similar but that is an oversimplification
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: this should cue the "I work with CF sheet all the time and use this tool and settings people"
11:28 AM gloops: not much difference for machining i wouldnt have thought
11:28 AM gloops: XXCoder
11:28 AM gloops: works with it
11:28 AM ziper: i'm looking at making parts in a mold and doing the machining before removing them from the mold
11:28 AM ziper: such as facing the tops flat
11:28 AM gloops: what does the machining consist of?
11:28 AM CaptHindsight: are you laminating or mixing epoxy with short fiber strands?
11:29 AM ziper: laminating
11:30 AM gloops: i dont see why not re flattening, some kind of clamping to keep the part steady in the mold though
11:30 AM CaptHindsight: epoxy is a thermoset so it won't soften much while cutting, it will just start to burn and decompose when too hot
11:30 AM ziper: coolant?
11:31 AM ziper: oh, slotting also
11:32 AM gloops: burr cutters might work better, im sure xxcoder machines this day in day out
11:33 AM gregcnc: tooling for composite is readily available. in similar designs as wood tooling, up/down/compression
11:33 AM gregcnc: special drills
11:35 AM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6B7e5RSpf4
11:35 AM gloops: looks like diamond burrs
11:36 AM ziper: making that from stock bugs me
11:40 AM gloops: thinking of molding the outer shape and top - then skim the bottom ?
11:41 AM gloops: i suppose you could mold both halves and sandwich them with foam
11:41 AM gregcnc: making one wastes a lot of material, but that would nest well in quantity
11:41 AM gloops: still quicker to cut out lol
11:42 AM ziper: a couple reasons. its wasteful (doesnt really matter), but also that its not cored (important for weight critical applications) and that the fibers arn't actually running the direction that matters
11:44 AM gloops: cored?
11:45 AM gregcnc: channel/tube
11:45 AM ziper: foam
11:45 AM ziper: or honeycomb if you want to get exotic
11:46 AM gregcnc: a few frames use tubes for the motors
11:46 AM gregcnc: none are really optimized because they need to be pretty crashproof for fun
11:52 AM gloops: hmm, very thin to press out with a bag though
11:53 AM gregcnc: her's one https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24154001&postcount=53
11:53 AM gloops: in a closed mold
11:55 AM gloops: looks pretty much like two halves gregcnc
11:56 AM gregcnc: two piece mold
11:56 AM gloops: closed?
11:57 AM gloops: if you made two halves one male one female, stick the parts together, fill with foam
11:58 AM gregcnc: stuff actually goes inside
11:58 AM gregcnc: https://youtu.be/hQUKWzCUyb8
11:58 AM gloops: im not up with advanced laminating techniques but youve got some pain on doing that in a closed mold i would think
11:58 AM gregcnc: any optmial mold work is real work
12:00 PM gloops: they arent bagging it or anything, so straightforward, probably filling it with foaming resin
12:00 PM gregcnc: you missed it, there was a bladder, which is inflated after the mold is closed
12:01 PM gloops: ahh missed it then, so it is bagged
12:01 PM gloops: some faffing about there then, still i suppose once you done a few
12:26 PM Loetmichel: *MAAAN* german bureaucracy. lost one of my license plates off the car the friday before xmas. NOW i got an appointment at the Registration office. Went there. waited for 45 min, got called. explained my case, gave them all the paperwork and the remaining license plate: forgot to have the "copy of title" that is to be kept at the car... (had the title paper itself).. "sorry, we have to have
12:26 PM Loetmichel: the copy, you get a new license plate, so those get made anew. well make a new appointment for you. Di. 22 jan.." Are they insane?
12:29 PM fragalot: isn't just german, new plates always take forever
12:31 PM fragalot: or is 22nd of jan the date at which you can request the plates, meaning you won't have them until feb?
12:32 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: its the next time i can request them
12:33 PM Loetmichel: but they usually have the process streamlined enough that you can walk out with new plates a few hours later
12:33 PM Loetmichel: even one hour later if you are quicke to buy the new plates so they can stick their stamps on.
12:35 PM gloops: lol, we just go to the car shop with the logbook
12:35 PM gloops: make one yourself
12:36 PM fragalot: gloops: here the rear place is an official one & the front is a "DIY copy"
12:36 PM fragalot: plate*
12:36 PM fragalot: but the official plate ordeal gets sorted by the insurance company
12:36 PM gloops: sounds a bit dramatic lol
12:37 PM fragalot: so it just shows up in the mail
12:37 PM gloops: i dont know how id feel if a cop came to the window and said 'do you realise your rear plate isnt a regulation plate sir?'
12:38 PM Loetmichel: gloops: that would be "urkundenfälschung"
12:38 PM Loetmichel: license plates are official documents in germany
12:38 PM gloops: Loetmichel that sounds about right
12:39 PM gloops: im not sure we even have cops anymore, i see the odd car with police on it
12:40 PM CaptHindsight: Germans are well known for their efficiency and rules.
12:40 PM CaptHindsight: You must have both.
12:42 PM gloops: how do they know a real rear plate from a copy?
12:42 PM CaptHindsight: in the USA you can get new plates instantly for $10-20 more than waiting for an exact replacement
12:43 PM gloops: well you could just go into a car spares shop and theyd knock up any plate you wanted here, now you have to take the car logbook
12:43 PM gloops: but nothing to stop you making your own
12:43 PM fragalot: gloops: here it's a mix of an official symbol, and some of the fancy stuff you see on passports
12:44 PM fragalot: eg. special holographic surfaces & other fancy things
12:44 PM gloops: i suppose its a good thing really
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: in Illinois they recently changed to using your mailing address as proof of your home address
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: they only give you temporary licenses at the DMV, the "real" ones come in the mail
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: if the mail gets screwed up you have to show up in person with a blood sample to get it cleared up
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: and wear loose clothing for the possible cavity search
12:46 PM CaptHindsight: so if the mail arrives then you must live there, not sure what genius came up with this
12:46 PM gloops: the cops just flash the reg plate with a scanner now
12:47 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: do they also just leave it on the porch for someone else to take?
12:47 PM gloops: everything is on the database, tax, insurance MOT
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: they have vans here that troll the parked cars with cameras looking for violtions
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: yes, what else would make sense?
12:47 PM fragalot: gloops: that's how my dad got a speeding and parking ticket in antwerp whilst we were on holiday in spain
12:48 PM gloops: we dont have paper tax discs anymore
12:48 PM fragalot: ANPR cameras got his plates.. on a different make car, but still sent the invoices to him
12:49 PM gloops: also the old 'average speed check' cameras
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: we also have toll roads here
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: they monitor all the plates through all the gates
12:49 PM gloops: everybody knows where the individual speed cameras are, so you slow down for a few hundred yards then speed back up - not with the average check cameras
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: they don't give out automatic speeding tickets yet but it's in the works
12:49 PM gloops: fragalot yeah its all automated
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: it's similar here
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: I have friends that have thousands of $ in tickets from old plates they left on cars when sold
12:51 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: because I drive a leasing car, technically a cop equipped with ANPR could pull me mover & impound the car because someone else driving a car from the same leasing company has an outstanding parking ticket.
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: even after reporting the plates stolen
12:51 PM pcw_home: The_Ball: I guess you could gate the probe signal path in hal with motion.motion-type <> probe-move
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: i love it, next they will just kill the car remotely
12:51 PM fragalot: (I say technically, but this has happened to someone else.. was on the news a while ago :D)
12:52 PM pcw_home: (with the proviso that you lose the ability to detect a crash into your tool setter with normal moves)
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: well it's good, the important thing is that justice was severed and that is the price we as non 0.001% have to pay
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: served/severed
12:53 PM FinboySlick: Ironic. Technological progress is supposed to afford mankind more freedom.
12:53 PM fragalot: I'm not even in the top 10%
12:53 PM fragalot: FinboySlick: lol.
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: only in the sci-fi books :)
12:54 PM FinboySlick: Well, from an economics perspective too.
12:54 PM FinboySlick: But yeah.
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: China is going bat shit crazy with the "social score" they place on people
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: litter on camera -20 points
12:54 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: don't forget their ban on exporting money
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: j-walk -50 points
12:55 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: And a public large-display shaming.
12:55 PM fragalot: colleague of mine has a chinese GF, but she can't actually move here because it's neigh impossible for her to sell her house there & get the money across the border
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: lose 100 points and you can't get a plane of train ticket
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: of/or
12:55 PM fragalot: FinboySlick: which is not guaranteed to be correct
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, moving money out is tricky
12:55 PM fragalot: your face may show up for shaming someone else
12:56 PM FinboySlick: Coming soon to a democracy near you.
12:56 PM CaptHindsight: one reason why bitcoin did so well last year
12:56 PM fragalot: until they realized why
12:56 PM fragalot: :P
12:56 PM CaptHindsight: you had better of transferred it last year
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: you can move merchandise out of china pretty easily and cheaply
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: you just need to move something you are sure to convert back to cash
12:58 PM gloops: they made a new rule here, any immigrants have to be on £30k plus
12:58 PM gloops: (assuming EU free movement ends)
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: i think Thailand is only $20k USD
12:58 PM gloops: which is a bit cunning by the tory party, because 30k is around the income level people start moving to the right lol
12:59 PM fragalot: lol
12:59 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: whats the latest on US refugees going to Canada?
01:00 PM FinboySlick: gloops: Says a lot about Orwell's statement that the largest motivator of leftist philosophy is envy.
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: fluent French and proof of not being a dick + $50K
01:00 PM Loetmichel: gloops: i would like to see THAT study that only "rich" people go neonazi ;)
01:01 PM CaptHindsight: are you allowed to say that?
01:01 PM Loetmichel: i would say its mostly the low income or welfare type that is dumb enough to fall for extreme right propaganda
01:01 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Well, if you want to move to quebec, you need those and a wilingness to have all of your schooling nullified (because that cartel wants its cut too).
01:01 PM gloops: Loetmichel well not far right, just right enough to vote Conservative
01:02 PM Loetmichel: ah, there was my error. i see
01:02 PM Loetmichel: yes, conservative i can imagine in "richer" people
01:02 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: allowed to say what?
01:02 PM CaptHindsight: nazi
01:02 PM Loetmichel: sure
01:02 PM CaptHindsight: neo****
01:02 PM Loetmichel: why not?
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: forget what the rules are there
01:03 PM Loetmichel: the only thing we cant do here in germany is deny the holocaust or use their symbols/greetings
01:03 PM Loetmichel: thats a federal offense
01:03 PM FinboySlick: I think it's only questioning historical details that is illegal in Europe, CaptHindsight
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: ah no hiling
01:03 PM gloops: it isnt here
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: oh wow, the USA is currently all about revisionist history
01:04 PM gloops: you have to go as far as inciting hatred or violence
01:04 PM fragalot: gloops: you can even do that, IF you are a politician
01:04 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: It's illegal even if factually verifiable though.
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: our fearless leader does that on-air
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: home of the free, land of the brave
01:05 PM FinboySlick: eg: If you argue that it was say 6.3 million instead of 6.2 and publish a book with your data, you could be in big trouble.
01:05 PM CaptHindsight: now bend over and lets check for liquids
01:05 PM HighInBC: I am in Canada and I think we should build a border wall
01:05 PM HighInBC: on OUR southern border
01:05 PM CaptHindsight: HighInBC: I agree
01:05 PM gloops: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/13/world/europe/prince-harry-apologizes-for-nazi-costume.html
01:05 PM HighInBC: perhaps we can get the US to pay for it
01:05 PM fragalot: xD
01:05 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: That's an idea. use the entire TSA budget to build the wall. Argument over.
01:06 PM HighInBC: I bet Mexico would help pay for the impeachment...
01:06 PM Loetmichel: HighInBC: i woulndt. the ones that will flee the US to canada will probably be the ones that are useful in a society.
01:06 PM fragalot: Theatrical Satire Agency
01:06 PM Loetmichel: not the dregs. so you only win ;)
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: north border of texas and another US/Canada
01:07 PM fragalot: so is the US gov still shut down then?
01:07 PM FinboySlick: As a Canadian who lived through 12 years of Jean Chretien, I assure all my US friends that having a big moron as a head of state is not that big a deal.
01:07 PM Loetmichel: gloops: harry may have been insensitive. but not doing a crime, doesnt he?
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: HighInBC: FinboySlick I was looking at some Google street views of Canada and spotted some homeless...
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: is that possible there?
01:07 PM FinboySlick: Yes.
01:07 PM gloops: nah not a crime, very bad form for a royal though
01:08 PM Loetmichel: that it is indeed
01:08 PM gloops: i wouldnt really expect to get through the streets in a nazi uniform here
01:08 PM Loetmichel: in germany that would be a crime, if he didnt make the swatiska and other symbols unreadable
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: also read a story about BC police targeting people of color and natives
01:10 PM gloops: i dont think holocaust denial or scepticism should be a crime, but thats how it is
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: the nazi uniform here is a trucker cap, camo and a pickup truck :)
01:11 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Canada is mostly used by the US left as a fantasy utopia to justify going even more socialist. It's not a bad place but nowhere near what the democrats make it sound like.
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: they don't even know what Nazis are, now or in Europe 70 years ago
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: it's from all those hippies that migrated there in the 60's-70-s
01:12 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: not white gown with a white tipped hat with holes for the eyes?
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: even the skinheads traded the flight jackets and buzz cuts for suits and ties
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: now they look like well trained corporate types to blend in
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: they discovered that stupid people can't think so if you dress like "safe" people they can't spot you
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: they can't reason, so you hide in plane sight
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: bad people look different
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: skin, hats, haircuts etc
01:15 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: and i dont think many of the american "rednecks" are neonazis. a few may be, but mosty i think they are just the same "hinterwäldler" we have here in europe
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: well not "neonazis" but definitely devout racists
01:16 PM Loetmichel: somewhat inbred, somewhat too proud of they country but mostly good guys with a simple view on things
01:16 PM FinboySlick: Personally, given a choice between south georgia and Portland, I'll go with the rednecks.
01:16 PM Loetmichel: sure? are there much racists in that group of people?
01:16 PM Loetmichel: what i see on youtube i cant tell
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: which group?
01:17 PM gloops: well, there are plenty of rednecks in non-western countries
01:17 PM Loetmichel: the proverbial "truckdriving, camo wearing hicks"
01:18 PM gloops: i think Japan took about 2 dozen refugees last year
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: around here and over 30 very much so
01:18 PM Loetmichel: interesting
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: 20 somethings don't seem to mind as much
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: same for race, sexual orientation, hair cuts etc
01:18 PM FinboySlick: In my experience, 'progressive' racism is worse. I prefer someone who openly dislikes you to someone who's being condescending with open arms.
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: our fearless leader has brought them out in the spotlight
01:19 PM Loetmichel: <- would have them more in the "i dont mind what colour/religion you are or what you do as long as you dont mind me doing what i want"
01:19 PM Loetmichel: corner
01:20 PM FinboySlick: Live and let live is the vast majority of people, really.
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: some of it is just old religious beliefs
01:20 PM FinboySlick: All the fuss is about the 20% of the population that the news likes to talk about.
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: it's polarized people here
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: the main problem is people not doing anything about these issues
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: people here don't know how to do anything about it
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: they dropped teaching civics in most public schools by the 70's
01:22 PM Loetmichel: civics?
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: so people under 60 don't really know how guberment works
01:22 PM Loetmichel: does it work at all?
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: the study of the rights and duties of citizenship
01:22 PM Loetmichel: arent you still in shutdown?
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
01:22 PM Loetmichel: <- pours some salt in the gash ;)
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: the Dems are holding the fearless leader to Mexico paying for the wall
01:23 PM Loetmichel: ah, like "staatsbürgerkunde" in the Ex-DDR?
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: which I think is now a fence
01:24 PM Loetmichel: and the mexican government sits there and laughs their collective asses off i think ;)
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, child ruler
01:24 PM FinboySlick: Well, they're in talks about protecting the southern border of Mexico so they might not have money to pay for the northern wall too.
01:25 PM CaptHindsight: but it's at a level that the simpletons here can understand
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3boy_tLWeqA pretty much covers it
01:27 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: didn't said fence have a design where the height requirement of the steel posts used in it were of such a specific length that they could only really be made by one of the russian owned steel mills that your beloved leader had stock of?
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: are you trying to imply that a building developer know for running scams might be running another scam?
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: know/known
01:29 PM gloops: the thing is, after all this, there just has to be a wall
01:29 PM fragalot: get the germans to build it
01:29 PM fragalot: they're experienced
01:30 PM gloops: under russian supervision?
01:30 PM CaptHindsight: why not just crocs for the Rio Grand
01:30 PM Deejay: haha
01:31 PM CaptHindsight: how stupid does the USA look from your eyes?
01:31 PM fragalot: on the whole, or certain individuals?
01:31 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: i doubt any of the ones that built the berlin wall are still alive or in any condition to work
01:31 PM CaptHindsight: say from international news, TV etc
01:31 PM Loetmichel: s(or/and
01:31 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: TV is mostly neutral, actually
01:31 PM fragalot: just reporting facts... as unlikely as that sounds
01:32 PM Loetmichel: other than that: sure, we could built the wall. we know how do do concrete structures very well
01:32 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: it's a steel structure, not concrete.
01:32 PM Loetmichel: but i doubt trump would be willing to pay our prices ;)
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: I read/watch BBC, france 24, etc
01:32 PM gloops: from what ive gleaned from Louis Theroux shows - most americans are pretty batty
01:32 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: we can do steel just as well ;)
01:32 PM Loetmichel: still the price problem applies :-)
01:32 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: but you can't import it, it has to be US steel :D
01:33 PM Loetmichel: not that big of a problem
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: news here has become maybe 5% actual news and 95% speculation
01:33 PM Loetmichel: i can imagine we would be still able to find some of the old steel mills you dismantled and shipped overseas after WW2
01:33 PM Loetmichel: they should still work ;)
01:33 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: I notice that when going to the US on business trips
01:33 PM Loetmichel: and be up to spec ;)
01:34 PM fragalot: just looking at the TV in the hotel lobby.. Christ.
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: they should call it Speculation and not News at 6 and 10
01:35 PM fragalot: speculation with a hint of manipulation
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: sad but many Americans will object to what I'm saying, they think I'm paranoid and negative
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: they really buy into it
01:36 PM fragalot: the main thing that irks me about the US is the general waste of resources & terrible healthcare system
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: you can't reason with them since they have mostly joined a tribe and just spew what they memorized
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: if the overall plan is to destroy the middle class it all should make sense
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: keep them ignorant and fighting with each other while you take over everything
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: why it's so polarized here
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: bread and circus, been working for generations
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: sorry for being a downer, let me get some kitten pics :)
01:45 PM gloops: yes only these days we dont actually get to see any of the real action
01:45 PM gloops: in roman times you could watch gladiators carve one another up for real
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: was watching a John Cleese interview about him leaving the UK
01:47 PM gloops: yes Cleese has had enough
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: said he was offered a position in parliament
01:48 PM gloops: the england he knew is disappearing fast
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: he said the original family name is Cheese and almost wanted to stay so he could have the title of Lord Cheese
01:48 PM gloops: i dont think anybody would notice another clown in the house of lords
01:50 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: i am afraid there is no "PLAN" in any of that. you know the movie "idiocracy"? i think the beginnings of that plot can be seen in the US today
01:51 PM FinboySlick: I read yesterday that Bezos is having a divorce. 70 billion... Hope the girl was worth it.
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: it's not being dumbed down by accident
01:52 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Let the german think it's because of bad genetics ;)
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: yeah, well she did help build the empire
01:52 PM FinboySlick: (sorry Loetmichel, I just had to)
01:52 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: i dont see any "accident" in idiocracy
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: she wasn't sitting at home cooking and cleaning :)
01:53 PM Loetmichel: just a social function that runs away
01:53 PM Loetmichel: FinboySlick: you are partly right
01:53 PM Loetmichel: we have a saying in germany... "Dumm bummst gut!"
01:53 PM Loetmichel: (dumb is good to fu**)
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"
01:54 PM Loetmichel: sadly all to true
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: forget the german version
01:55 PM Loetmichel: "Der Apfel fällt nicht weit vom Stamm"
01:55 PM rmu: der Apfel fällt nicht weit vom Stamm
01:55 PM Loetmichel: pretty much word for word
01:55 PM rmu: oups
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: haha
01:55 PM Loetmichel: "stamm" is more trunk than tree though
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: my moms favorite
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: my dads was "You can never trust the Russians:"
01:56 PM Loetmichel: oh you can, but even their leader knew that its better to check once in a while ;)
01:56 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: I wasn't really questioning her deserving the 70 billions. I was more dazzled by Bezos' risk assessment calculations.
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: they were married in 93
01:57 PM Loetmichel: i know i should know jeff bezos... i just can pinpoint why
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: Amazon
01:57 PM Loetmichel: ah
01:58 PM Loetmichel: thanks
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: founded Amazon in his garage on July 5, 1994
01:58 PM FinboySlick: Loetmichel: Watch the last two episodes of South Park, you'll understand exactly who he is ;)
01:58 PM Loetmichel: hihi
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: hah yeah
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: i loved how they have the big heads from the pilot episode of Star Trek
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/ISiIAr3yGYF_IAHfEExl8Jm8SRI=/768x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/Talosians_3-571560313df78c3fa22704ed.jpg
02:00 PM Loetmichel: yo i get it that the divorce was a consequence of him getting a young "side chick" and not him divorcing his long years wife to get a new one?
02:00 PM Loetmichel: -y+s
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5c0a458199bcd5115a25b404-750-563.jpg
02:01 PM rmu: is that the bush administration on the picture in the background?
02:02 PM FinboySlick: No, I think it's the south park city administration.
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: do you recall the cover of Stern during the Bush years? was all superheros
02:04 PM rmu: Stern as in german Stern magazine?
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: i made it into t-shrts
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: yes
02:04 PM rmu: no, i'm more a titanic and less a stern guy i guess
02:05 PM rmu: but i remember this: https://www.titanic-magazin.de/shop/index.php?action=showdetails&from=list&pageNr=1&productId=3f7acc8253928
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: can't find a link online
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-cover-of-the-german-newsmagazine-der-spiegel-a-drawing-showing-us-picture-id703381
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: was Spiegel sorry
02:11 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: that i know. could be it still is in the archive
02:11 PM rmu: in my archive
02:11 PM rmu: "the expendables"
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: hah, then later https://coverjunkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/1285249814-250x331.jpg
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: Jack Ma says hire the craziest, not the "most qualified"
02:16 PM pcw_mesa: "Hire the insane"
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.kalibrr.com/blog/2016/01/this-is-how-the-biggest-ceos-hire-the-right-people
02:19 PM Jymmm: pcw_home: you called?
02:25 PM The_Ball: pcw_home, "with the proviso that you lose the ability to detect a crash into your tool setter with normal moves", yes that's unfortunate but I don't see any better way
02:27 PM `Wolf: JT-Shop, got deb 9 installed and working, can see the 7i96 as well with the config tool
02:30 PM pcw_mesa: The_Ball: if its just very short contact closures from motion, you might use a slow debounce when not probing and fast debounce when probing
02:31 PM `Wolf: now if I could just figure out what half this stuff is in the configuration tool i'll be set lol
02:35 PM `Wolf: pcw_mesa, pretty sure I have asked before, but for a thcad 10 voltage divider for a 300v hypertherm 1000 w/ pilot arc is there some specific type resistor needed?
02:42 PM jthornton: `Wolf: are you using my configuration tool? and I have a note around here somewhere about the resistors I'll see if I can find it
02:42 PM `Wolf: yeah, using your tool
02:43 PM `Wolf: i'm somewhat lost because I havent set up a lcnc machine in like 5 yrs
02:44 PM `Wolf: mostly I dont know what the axis type fields are under the joint tabs, scale min/max limit
02:47 PM pcw_mesa: `Wolf: 2.9 M for 300VFS
02:47 PM pcw_mesa: 2.4M for 250V FS
02:49 PM JT-Shop: scale is how many steps it takes to move one user unit, does that info show up when you press F1 on that tab?
02:51 PM `Wolf: nope, just says joints must be configured in order starting with 0 and not skipping any, and axis, pid stepgen are required
02:51 PM JT-Shop: I need to work on that some then :)
02:52 PM JT-Shop: so min/max are the limits of your axis
02:52 PM `Wolf: ok like 4 foot gantry type would be 0, 48
02:54 PM `Wolf: and the example is a 60" travel being -30, 30
02:55 PM pcw_mesa: JT-Shop: also noticed if specify flood and mist outputs you get 2 flood (or 2 mist I forget)
03:04 PM The_Ball: pcw_mesa, that's an excellent idea actually
03:06 PM `Wolf: ugh, is my math correct, 8mm pitch, 400 pulse per rev = 0.02mm so 1270 pulse per inch?
03:16 PM JT-Shop: pcw_mesa: thanks
03:18 PM JT-Shop: wolf that's what I get for scale exactly
03:18 PM * JT-Shop goes back to work
03:19 PM Deejay: gn8
03:21 PM `Wolf: cool, not lost my mind yet lol
03:22 PM XXCoder: on what?
03:22 PM `Wolf: math...
03:22 PM XXCoder: lol ok
03:23 PM `Wolf: configuring the plasma table finally
03:23 PM XXCoder: awesome getting there :)
03:29 PM `Wolf: need to stretch my x axis tho
03:30 PM XXCoder: i think size is one of those stuff about cnc machines everyone complains about. :)
03:30 PM `Wolf: my x axis is 1" short vs the bumper plate width I need lol
03:33 PM XXCoder: ow heh
03:36 PM `Wolf: easy fix, add .75" spacers to each end of my x axis rail lol
03:41 PM JT-Shop: yea work done... chicken time
03:49 PM `Wolf: bumped it up to 800 step/rev, now to see if it works
03:59 PM Wolf_ITX: hmm fail
04:05 PM Wolf_ITX: JT-Shop, https://pastebin.com/zsw0tuM1
04:07 PM rmu: ./io.hal:5: Pin 'joint.0.neg-lim-sw-in' was already linked to signal 'min-limit-home-joint-0'
04:08 PM Wolf_ITX: yeah, I noticed that, config was built with JT's 7i96 config tool
04:13 PM Wolf_ITX: from the io.hal "# This file was created with the 7i96 Wizard on Jan 10 2019 16:51:23 If you make changes to this file your screwed" lol
04:14 PM rmu: the wizard could check the generated files' timestamps and prompt the user if those are newer than the source files'
04:15 PM JT-Shop: Wolf_ITX: thanks for the report, I'll see what's up paste.ubuntu.com the io.hal file for me
04:15 PM rmu: at least open a dialog "I warned you, now you are screwed!" ;-)
04:16 PM Wolf_ITX: JT-Shop, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7FXjSkgrw8/
04:16 PM JT-Shop: rmu: it just opens the ini file and reads that
04:17 PM JT-Shop: opps, let me what I've got screwed up, unselect the limits and test
04:18 PM Wolf_ITX: I chose min limit & home, will change to min limit only and test
04:19 PM Wolf_ITX: or home actually
04:21 PM JT-Shop: ok thanks
04:25 PM jthornton: I'm hooking up a 7i96 to this PC so I can do more testing
04:25 PM Wolf_ITX: lcnc didnt like having a output pin set to spindle on either, opened w/ inputs set to home only tho
04:28 PM jthornton: did you select a spindle type?
04:29 PM Wolf_ITX: nope
04:30 PM jthornton: ah that is not tested sadly
04:34 PM Wolf_ITX: now, I set it up as a YYXZ, under manual control in axis its showing joint 0,1,2,3
04:38 PM jthornton: you have to home all the joints before it goes to XYZ
04:38 PM jthornton: just wiring up the 7i96 now
04:39 PM jthornton: the cool thing is you can pastebin the ini and I can recreate your whole configuration
04:39 PM Wolf_ITX: hmm, my stepper drivers aren't powering up =/
04:40 PM jthornton: what driver do you have?
04:40 PM Wolf_ITX: mb450A which are reboxed m542 leadshines
04:41 PM Wolf_ITX: enb is wired to 5pv and gnd so it should be showing power
04:44 PM Wolf_ITX: great, need to power stepper drivers before mesa
04:44 PM jthornton: I'm not familiar with that drive
04:44 PM jthornton: you can use an output with a relay
04:45 PM Wolf_ITX: yeah, just use one of the outputs at a enable
04:45 PM Wolf_ITX: at/as
04:46 PM Wolf_ITX: well power lights on drivers, no move
04:47 PM pcw_mesa: jthornton: Not sure what you want to do about the spindle stuff, if you use latest master its has the multi-spindle names
04:49 PM pcw_mesa: Wolf_ITX "Enable" on most step drives is really "Disable" so leave unconnected to work
04:49 PM jthornton: pcw_mesa: yea when I wrote this it was before that merge so I need to look at that
04:50 PM Wolf_ITX: lol yup that did it
04:56 PM jthornton: ./mesaflash64: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpci.so.3: version `LIBPCI_3.5' not found (required by ./mesaflash64)
04:57 PM jthornton: pcw_mesa: I made a 32 bit and 64 bit version of mesaflash to read the card but on this new PC without mesaflash installed I get the above error
05:00 PM pcw_mesa: I know mesaflash needs the PCI lib to build, did you install it when building mesaflash?
05:01 PM jthornton: I built mesaflash on another pc
05:02 PM jthornton: I think I need to add mesaflash to my uspace docs http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/
05:02 PM jthornton: then just use the installed mesaflash
05:03 PM jthornton: good thing this is a fresh pc so I can find those mistakes in my code
05:03 PM Wolf_ITX: well, I can jog stuff
05:03 PM jthornton: yippe
05:03 PM Wolf_ITX: machine runs worse then I expected lol
05:05 PM pcw_mesa: Yeah if you built it on a machine you pull in its (1) dependency
05:09 PM Wolf_ITX: floppy lead screws
05:10 PM Wolf_ITX: I think if I secure them in tension it might work better lol
05:12 PM gloops: those screws are intended for 3d printers
05:12 PM Wolf_ITX: yup
05:12 PM Wolf_ITX: works ok at 90in/min tho
05:13 PM gloops: thats not bad, maybe doubling the end bearings might do something
05:13 PM Wolf_ITX: right now it just has bearings with shaft collars on the insides holding them in place
05:13 PM Wolf_ITX: I think thats letting it pull in to the frame and whip
05:14 PM Nick001-Shop: Can I control 2 spindle motors on linuxcnc?
05:14 PM Wolf_ITX: iirc 8 spindles w/ 2.8
05:15 PM Nick001-Shop: is that out?
05:15 PM jthornton: yep
05:15 PM jthornton: well it's master
05:15 PM jthornton: so not a release
05:16 PM Nick001-Shop: will it thread with at least one of the spindles?
05:20 PM pcw_mesa: should thread with any
05:21 PM pcw_mesa: (that is AFAICT all the spindle sync collateral is available for all spindles)
05:24 PM Nick001-Shop: just neet to tap with 1 spindle, but one set of 2 slides have to operate with the 2 motoactual spindles
05:25 PM Nick001-Shop: motoactual/motors driving 2 spindles each
05:31 PM Nick001-Shop: what version linux should I have on the machine for 2.8?
05:33 PM pcw_mesa: LinuxCNC version and Linux Version are basically independent as long as you can meet the dependecies
05:35 PM Nick001-Shop: does 2.8 require a certain version of linux and is ir 32 or 64 bit? And where do I get 2.8 from? Still seaching the forum.
05:36 PM gloops: i upgraded, but be careful i think it changes any 2.7 configs you might have
05:37 PM Nick001-Shop: This would be a new install with an ITX board
05:38 PM Nick001-Shop: back in 1/2 hour
05:38 PM Wolf_ITX: deb 9 seems to work
05:55 PM pcw_mesa: It may trigger the spindle update part
05:57 PM pcw_mesa: (The script always prints the same Joints/Axis related message so can be confusing in this case)
05:58 PM jthornton: ah ok that makes sense
05:58 PM jthornton: thanks
06:12 PM Nick001-Shop: Thanks for the info-will be back I'm sure.
07:09 PM russian_troll: Tom_L: Today's Log http://www.isaeff.net/logs/%23linuxcnc/2019-01-11.html
07:10 PM Tom_L: Nick001-Shop, http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/
07:10 PM Tom_L: debian 9 (stretch)
07:10 PM Tom_L: version 2.7.xx linux iirc
07:11 PM Tom_L: 2.8 would be master i believe
07:34 PM Nick001-Shop: Tomorrow I'll check what's on the extra computer I have for this project
07:35 PM Tom_L: basically i think that debian 9 build (preempt-rt) is for cards that need preempt
07:35 PM Tom_L: ie ethernet etc
07:36 PM Tom_L: it also requires a little faster hardware for good latency
07:50 PM Nick001-Shop: will an ITX card suffice?
09:15 PM flyback: PHEAR ME Tom_L https://imgur.com/a/1GGRK2c
09:32 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest24135
09:44 PM BitEvil: https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1083567087983964160/photo/1 insane
11:36 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil