#linuxcnc Logs

Dec 18 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:29 AM fragalot: hi
12:50 AM miss0r: fragalot hello
12:53 AM fragalot: miss0r: hey!
12:54 AM miss0r: so ah... Aren't you supposed to be at work? :)
12:54 AM fragalot: was on my way out the door :-)
12:54 AM miss0r: clearly :P
12:55 AM * fragalot out
02:01 AM Deejay: moin
03:28 AM Loetmichel: hmm, you guys (and gals) think that'll fit for a CNC 6040? Anything i forgot on the purchase list (german)? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=17261
03:44 AM Loetmichel: (its a PDF, nothing dangerous ;)
03:46 AM sensille: missing some motors for the rollers so it can move around autonomously ;)
03:46 AM Loetmichel: sensille: hihi
04:05 AM PL7icnc: HI someone online
04:06 AM PL7icnc: Question is this Channel Locked , for review
04:06 AM sensille: logged?
04:06 AM PL7icnc: Some german Here
04:06 AM PL7icnc: sensille, some Channels put all the posts into a textfile somwhere to review how has been writing
04:07 AM sensille: yeah, you mean 'logged', not 'locked'
04:07 AM PL7icnc: Im a german School Teatcher that Runs a classroom of CNC
04:08 AM PL7icnc: Sorry my English is Not that Good as im a Working side teatcher
04:08 AM PL7icnc: Technikal Toolmaker Mastercheaf
04:08 AM PL7icnc: "Werkzeugmacher Handwerksmeister"
04:09 AM PL7icnc: So to be Right is this Channel Logged
04:10 AM PL7icnc: I Guess this is mainly used by USA Citizens
04:10 AM PL7icnc: Thank you Very Mutch selroc
04:10 AM selroc: no, I am an Europe citizen
04:11 AM PL7icnc: German
04:11 AM selroc: welcome
04:11 AM PL7icnc: Whow 2 year Full Day Logging
04:13 AM PL7icnc: The People That did all the CNC Stuff in Education is not Here anymore
04:13 AM PL7icnc: so I Try to Get behind the System as good as i can
04:14 AM PL7icnc: I dident Even Know if the Men How did all this Have been Here
04:15 AM PL7icnc: ok i need to go back to Class
04:15 AM selroc: bye
04:18 AM XXCoder: caps
04:19 AM sensille: autocap?
04:19 AM XXCoder: nah making comment about odd cap havbig of other guy
04:19 AM XXCoder: *habit
04:20 AM sensille: auto-cap-first-letter-of-each-word
04:21 AM XXCoder: yeah like everything guy said is a title to a movie or book
04:22 AM sensille: even for german it would be too much
04:25 AM XXCoder: oh well lol
05:15 AM Tom_L: makes up for lack of punctuation
05:23 AM jthornton: morning
05:24 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
05:24 AM XXCoder: you remember friday blackout?
05:25 AM XXCoder: apparently they gave me hours for basically whole shifty
05:27 AM jthornton: nice
05:27 AM XXCoder: yeah since I planned to leave at 12 am lol
05:42 AM jthornton: what time do you normally get off from work?
05:43 AM XXCoder: 1:45 am
05:45 AM jthornton: I used to work midnight to 7am at the shipyard and got paid for 8 hours it was easy work
05:46 AM XXCoder: nice but over night shift isnt great for health
05:46 AM XXCoder: even just "late" like mine isnt too great
05:47 AM jthornton: I loved working that shift
06:15 AM jthornton: yea finally captured Ctrl c and got a clean exit https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/RQN5fKTcGj/
06:16 AM XXCoder: nice
06:21 AM jthornton: looks like another good afternoon to ride the mountain bike today and possibly tomorrow
06:22 AM XXCoder: :)
06:32 AM miss0r: I couldn't help myself; I needed to add a rope to the front bumper :D https://imgur.com/a/xcTNij3
06:32 AM XXCoder: you got roped in rope trend
06:33 AM miss0r: indeed :)
06:39 AM jthornton: what no farm jack? all self respecting jeeps over here have a farm jack on the hood
06:40 AM jthornton: https://www.roundforge.com/articles/best-hi-lift-jack-mounts/
06:45 AM miss0r: jthornton I only pring that when I am "in the mud"... and in that case it is stored in the mounting slots for it, behind the seats :)
06:45 AM miss0r: Next to the hand starter crank :D
06:46 AM jthornton: ok you will have to make a video of you hand cranking it
06:46 AM miss0r: You like to see men sweat?
06:46 AM pcw_home: Lcvette: almost always the A- B- signals should be left open
06:46 AM miss0r: hehe. To be fair, it is actualy not hard to do so
06:46 AM jthornton: is it gas or diesel?
06:47 AM miss0r: gas
06:47 AM miss0r: or as the brits say: petrol
06:47 AM pcw_home: (they are almost always generated by a differential driver like a 26LS31 so if you ground the output you might damage the driver)
06:47 AM miss0r: I wouldn't want to hand crank a diesel..
06:49 AM jthornton: I watched an 80 year old guy in the Mercedes museum start a diesel car by hand
06:49 AM miss0r: hehe. Probably not a diesel born with a preheater
06:49 AM jthornton: only had 1 cylinder IIRC
06:49 AM miss0r: which is the case with the land rover diesel...
06:49 AM jthornton: spun the flywheel backwards
06:50 AM miss0r: Nice
06:50 AM miss0r: Theres a technique to hand cranking a land rover. You need to "cup" your hands, so when it catches or kicks back, you don't break your fingers
06:50 AM miss0r: Quite important to know :D
06:51 AM miss0r: I mean; it still hurts like a mofo.. when it happens, but the finger bones stay intact
06:52 AM jthornton: grandfather had a few hand crank tractors that I never could start when I was young
06:53 AM miss0r: its a 50/50 mix of practice and strength. so..
06:53 AM jthornton: my `56 Ferguson F40 has the hand crank on the crankshaft but is not visible through the front
06:53 AM miss0r: so, can you start that one with a crank?
06:54 AM jthornton: if there was a hole in the front yes
06:54 AM miss0r: ah.. so theres *IS* no hole :) I just thought perhaps it was hidden
06:54 AM jthornton: I think all the Continental engines from that era had the hand crank bit on the crankshaft
06:55 AM miss0r: You can see the crank hole in the middle of the bumper on the land rover picture I posted
06:55 AM jthornton: aye I see it
06:55 AM miss0r: come to think of it; That rope might be in the way of a proper swing
06:56 AM miss0r: Time will tell, I suppose :)
06:58 AM jthornton: wow a beautiful red sky this morning (it's just before sunrise here)
06:58 AM miss0r: Hehe.. 'round here I think I have about 1˝ hours worth of sunlight left.
06:59 AM miss0r: but as always: Picture or it didn't happen
07:01 AM miss0r: apparently sunrise to sunset it only 7 hours & 1 minut at the moment
07:02 AM jthornton: we have 9:38:50 of daylight from sunrise to sunset according to the chicken door
07:02 AM miss0r: hehe.. The local source of information :D
07:03 AM XXCoder: soon the longest night will be here
07:03 AM jthornton: I use astral to get the sun times each day so I know when to open/close the door
07:03 AM XXCoder: dec 23 something this year
07:03 AM jthornton: aye
07:03 AM miss0r: Here it will be dec. 21
07:04 AM XXCoder: 8:28 dalight at shortest here
07:04 AM XXCoder: dec 14th is when it turns to growing day length here
07:05 AM miss0r: I miss summer already...
07:22 AM methods_: https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/18/18144475/spacex-falcon-9-blue-origin-new-shepard-arianespace-soyuz-ula-delta-iv
07:22 AM methods_: weeeeeeeee
07:22 AM methods_: 4 launches today
07:34 AM SpeedEvil: Hopefully plenty of red glare, with less bursting in the air.
07:39 AM methods_: oh i guess the bezos one isn't actually going into the space
07:39 AM methods_: sub-orbital
07:40 AM methods_: sorta space
07:47 AM methods_: i guess there is a fifth launch too
07:47 AM methods_: some indian rocket
08:41 AM weenerdog: howdy
09:08 AM jthornton: hey
09:09 AM weenerdog: what up
09:09 AM jthornton: not much need to do some real work today lol
09:10 AM weenerdog: yeah me too lol
09:12 AM jthornton: got some done yesterday but it's a beautiful day here do after lunch there will be some mountain bike riding for sure
09:13 AM weenerdog: love mountain biking. i got good trails right out the back door.
09:13 AM weenerdog: i shoot a lot of deer off mountain bike. they're used to atvs. mountain bike gets'em
09:14 AM jthornton: nice, they built 25 miles of trails a few years ago about 5 miles from me
09:19 AM Loetmichel: weenerdog: get one with electric motor :-)
09:20 AM Loetmichel: ans you can even trace the deer at full speed
09:20 AM weenerdog: .308 outruns 'em :)
09:21 AM * Loetmichel smells a charles bronson quote incoming ;)
09:27 AM Loetmichel: but i meant: you can follow them even if they move quite fast. i know that they probably have more endurance than the battery, but it at least helps with YOUR endurance
09:29 AM FinboySlick: They don't need to follow the trail though.
09:32 AM FinboySlick: As a rural Canadian boy, I had to learn how to catch them and fight off bears who would steal my breakfast.
09:33 AM rmu: a deer seems to be quite a BREAKFAST
09:34 AM FinboySlick: wrestling bears stimulates the appetite. Though if you win, at leas you have something to keep warm with.
09:34 AM rmu: how often did you "now win"?
09:34 AM rmu: s/now/not/
09:35 AM Lcvette: pcw_home: pcw_home
09:35 AM Lcvette: > Lcvette: almost always the A- B- signals should be left open thanks pcw_homd
09:36 AM FinboySlick: rmu: Never. I had a very warm childhood.
09:38 AM rmu: better living through guns
09:39 AM * JT-Shop feels safe walking into the post office and people have large hand guns hanging on their belt
09:42 AM methods_: lot of shootouts in your post office?
09:47 AM JT-Shop: none
09:55 AM methods_: heheh
09:55 AM methods_: well that's just boring
09:56 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
09:59 AM gregcnc: this is pretty good https://youtu.be/xoxhDk-hwuo
10:01 AM rmu: staged?
10:01 AM gregcnc: who knows, but it is entertaining
10:01 AM gregcnc: 7M views in a day would pay for all the cleanup
10:03 AM rmu: HW discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18706193
11:57 AM gregcnc: ebay ultrasonic cleaner listing (for parts) "turns on, but makes constant buzzing noise"
12:02 PM Rab: haha
01:14 PM Lcvette: pcw_home: does it matter on the 7i77 where i grab the 5v for the encoder power? i found some reference for the 7i76 but it is using power from the step and direction signals outputs which i don't have there on the board im connected too. (i already used the 7i76's 16-19 up.. :(
01:17 PM fragalot: 'sup
01:20 PM Lcvette: sup
01:21 PM Tom_L: what's goin on today?
01:22 PM Lcvette: mpg
01:22 PM Lcvette: :D
01:22 PM Lcvette: how about you?
01:22 PM Tom_L: shouldn't matter where you get 5v just so it's 5v
01:22 PM Tom_L: just working
01:22 PM Lcvette: perfect!
01:22 PM fragalot: found out that if my car says it's got 80km of fuel left, what it really means is "about 38"
01:23 PM Lcvette: you can fix that
01:23 PM Tom_L: yeah, just bend the dial a little
01:23 PM Lcvette: bend the float lever arm dowsn just a touch
01:24 PM fragalot: it has neither of those things
01:24 PM fragalot: digital pressure sensor
01:24 PM fragalot: 's fine though, just coasted along on battery power to a fuel station
01:24 PM Lcvette: or up depending on which way it moves the rheostat
01:25 PM Lcvette: ah
01:25 PM Lcvette: hybrid?
01:25 PM fragalot: yes
01:25 PM fragalot: it's dogshit
01:25 PM fragalot: :D
01:25 PM Lcvette: hahahaha
01:25 PM fragalot: guzzles more fuel than my previous non-hybrid and everything feels like it's been made out of foil
01:25 PM Lcvette: trade it
01:25 PM Tom_L: what sort of batteries?
01:25 PM fragalot: Tom_L: NiMH
01:26 PM Tom_L: wait for someone to hit you and watch it burn
01:26 PM fragalot: Lcvette: 4yr lease -- company car
01:26 PM fragalot: so i'mma just ride this one out
01:26 PM Lcvette: gotcha
01:26 PM fragalot: but it is interesting how it has about 50hp more than my previous car
01:26 PM fragalot: yet is nearly 2s slower to 100km/h, and has a lower top speed than the previous one
01:27 PM fragalot: even though they weigh about the same
01:27 PM fragalot: think about that for a moment
01:32 PM rmu: does that matter
01:32 PM rmu: how often do you go "top speed"
01:32 PM rmu: or get near
01:32 PM fragalot: it doesn't, but it struggled going slightly up-hill with a strong head-wind when I was in the UK
01:33 PM fragalot: power meter went to ~95% to maintain 113km/h
01:33 PM rmu: sounds like an old VW "bully"
01:34 PM fragalot: lol
01:34 PM rmu: except that wouldnt have a power meter and uphill would go only 100kmh;)
01:34 PM rmu: with wind from back
01:34 PM rmu: what car is it?
01:35 PM fragalot: toyota auris touring sports
02:02 PM rmu: i got email last week to configure my model 3
02:03 PM rmu: but still no real price
02:03 PM fragalot: I'm not really a fan of touch screens for cars - then again once they fully autopilot....
02:05 PM rmu: me neither
02:06 PM fragalot: I mean.. they ban cellphones because they distract you, but then they put in a fixed touch-screen where you have to focus hard on what you're about to press, where you're likely to press the wrong thing anyway because of a bump in the road
02:06 PM fragalot: obviously said screen is also mounted far below the normal line of view
02:07 PM rmu: and i will never ever shell out 60k in today's money for a car
02:08 PM fragalot: Aye
02:08 PM fragalot: also s/car/money-pit/
02:45 PM Papagno: pcw_mesa, Hi peter , i have fix on real machine, with spindle at speed true when spindle is stop. now machine is ok. Thanks for support
02:48 PM pcw_mesa: Glad its working now
03:15 PM fragalot: baha
03:15 PM fragalot: yellow vests are done protesting in france
03:16 PM fragalot: so now it's the cops' turn
03:17 PM Deejay: gn8
03:21 PM gloops: i see your PM has resigned fragalot
03:23 PM fragalot: i'm surprised it took as long as it did
03:24 PM gloops: Belgium doesnt seem to have much luck with governments
03:24 PM fragalot: :-)
03:25 PM XXCoder: belhium pm resigned?
03:25 PM fragalot: he's trying
03:25 PM XXCoder: why is he doing that?
03:25 PM fragalot: the king is taking the governments resignation "under advisement"
03:25 PM fragalot: because the majority party quit
03:26 PM fragalot: because they disagreed with the UN's voluntary migration pact that has no legal bearing
03:26 PM fragalot: at least, that's what they are using as an excuse
03:27 PM gloops: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1060800/belgium-prime-minster-Charles-Michel-resigns-UN-migrant-pact
03:28 PM gloops: the EU is failing rapidly
03:28 PM XXCoder: also heard pm theresa are challenged by labour party over brexit
03:28 PM XXCoder: would be interesting if removed then brexit is cancelled
03:28 PM gloops: XXCoder that fizzled out
03:29 PM XXCoder: interesting i saw news recently but then im at usa maybe that news were late
03:29 PM fragalot: UK's just trying to hard ball it for now
03:29 PM gloops: no the govmt is ramping up no deal preparations - seems increasingly likely now
03:29 PM fragalot: they have until march 29th to withdraw their exit as a 'worst case' fallback
03:29 PM gloops: its the best case fragalot, we need to wash our hands of the EU totally
03:29 PM fragalot: i'm curious what the no deal scenario would be IN PRACTISE.
03:29 PM gloops: they will crawl back for a deal
03:29 PM fragalot: ie. what do you do with all of the expats?
03:30 PM gloops: we dont do anything with expats
03:30 PM fragalot: what do you do when suddenly you can't import half of your medication & food?
03:30 PM gloops: we can import our food
03:30 PM fragalot: only if there is an import deal
03:30 PM fragalot: or other trade agreement
03:31 PM gloops: hundreds of containers arrive here every day from China under WTO rules, no problem
03:31 PM gloops: we can get better food from africa
03:33 PM fragalot: it's a little more complicated than jsut falling back on WTO
03:34 PM fragalot: at the moment, most of the WTO agreements are done to EU member states, which the UK currently is
03:34 PM fragalot: after brexit, the deals made under WTO with EU member states no longer apply to the UK
03:34 PM gloops: there may be some temporary confusion, i doubt most brits will notice
03:34 PM fragalot: meaning that said deals must be re-negotated
03:34 PM gloops: yes thats pretty easy, we just tariff the stuff we dont want coming here
03:34 PM fragalot: i would expect prices to go up significantly in the short term
03:35 PM gloops: but down in the long term
03:35 PM fragalot: debatable
03:35 PM gloops: currently we seem to be subsidising a load of fat aristocratic french farmers
03:35 PM fragalot: no you don't
03:35 PM fragalot: the UK gets a massive rebate that no other EU member gets for that specific topic
03:36 PM fragalot: 66% in fact
03:36 PM gloops: our old friends in the commonwealth will supply us
03:36 PM fragalot: and you haven't since 1985.
03:36 PM gloops: fragalot you know full well that the UK is the EU cash cow
03:38 PM fragalot: one of the larger ones, yes
03:41 PM gloops: well, it isnt looking too good for EU in general, trouble spreading everywhere now
03:41 PM rmu: what about irish border in no deal brexit
03:43 PM gloops: it wont be a problem on our part, if the EU chooses to prioritise its stupid rules over a matter of war and peace, its on their heads
03:43 PM rmu: what do you men "no problem". what is going to happen with the border?
03:43 PM gloops: there isnt going to be a border
03:43 PM rmu: mean
03:44 PM rmu: and how does UK limit influx of people
03:44 PM gloops: not on our side, if the EU wants one it can build on its side
03:44 PM fragalot: so if there is no border
03:44 PM fragalot: how does that solve the migration issues you had?
03:44 PM gloops: there are technological solutions
03:44 PM fragalot: why would I then not fly to ireland, and walk over as if nothing happened?
03:45 PM rmu: if there is no border between uk and ireland and there is no border between ireland and rest of EU, how do you prevent people form going to UK
03:45 PM fragalot: how is it different from taking the ferry
03:45 PM gloops: you can walk into northern ireland, that doesnt mean normal rules for illegal immigrants dont apply
03:45 PM rmu: what does that mean
03:46 PM gloops: when you get caught you go back
03:47 PM rmu: go back where
03:48 PM rmu: so people go from poland to UK via ireland, and you put them on a flight back to poland if they get caught?
03:48 PM gloops: from whence thou comes
03:48 PM gloops: yes
03:49 PM andypugh: Well, just back to Ireland would do, ie back to the EU
03:49 PM andypugh: And you are missing the point that anyone who is in Ireland would have to be a moron to want to leave Ireland and enter the UK
03:49 PM rmu: assuming you catch them in the vicinity of the border
03:50 PM gloops: we'll take his photo and put it on the wall in police stations
03:50 PM rmu: there is no limit to stupidity, so people will go from ireland to uk
03:51 PM rmu: at least mr. beans police station was not large enough for that
03:51 PM gloops: there might be a slight upturn in tobacco and alcohol coming over the 'border'
03:52 PM rmu: the question is which way
03:53 PM andypugh: The idea of a three-answer second referendum is a cunning idea. By having two “Leave” options (no deal, the deal) and one remain option they can pretty much guarantee a 25 / 25 / 50 split.
03:53 PM fragalot: andypugh: gotta love numbers
03:54 PM rmu: nevertheless, it will not be funny in ireland. and i don't think EU prioritises "stupid rules" over other matters, those rules can't be changed that easily, it is somehow presumptuous of the uk to demand such a thing
03:54 PM gloops: andypugh that is what has happened in quite a few EU based referendums in various nations
03:54 PM gloops: they always keep voting, splitting the vote etc until they get the response they want
03:54 PM andypugh: So I guess that is how the MPs (few of who are in favour of leaving) will manage to wiggle out of doing what the first referendum told them to.
03:54 PM rmu: does anybody really think there will be a second referendum before brexit?
03:55 PM fragalot: doubt it
03:55 PM fragalot: they tried a referendum once and it blew up in their face
03:55 PM gloops: rmu seems unlikely
03:55 PM rmu: whatever the result of a second referendum, it would be damaging to the uk
03:55 PM gloops: there is no change in the polling, another referendum could lead to prolonged uncertainty
03:55 PM andypugh: There isn’t really time, and it undermines any future referendums
03:57 PM gloops: yes, if you defy the result of the vote, you might find the voters start defying govmt
03:58 PM gloops: rumour has it the EU are going to concede ground on the irish backstop after christmas, there is some chance of may getting her deal through, small though
03:58 PM rmu: the uk can't just say "f*** it we leave, to hell with contracts" and think nobody else will notice
03:58 PM fragalot: gloops: where did you hear that?
03:58 PM gloops: rmu the UK tried to make a deal
03:59 PM rmu: last i looked there was a deal
03:59 PM gloops: fragalot its just going round on social media
03:59 PM fragalot: I see
03:59 PM rmu: russian interference ;)
03:59 PM fragalot: just like how marylin manson got his ribs removed so he can suck himself off kinda rumour
04:00 PM gloops: legally, the default position now is that if mays deal gets voted down, we leave 1 month later with no deal
04:00 PM fragalot: isn't the leave part march 29th, regardless?
04:00 PM gloops: yes
04:00 PM rmu: gloops: then you can't say the UK tried to make a deal
04:00 PM gloops: mays vote jan 15th
04:01 PM gloops: 2 months later
04:01 PM fragalot: :P
04:01 PM rmu: fun times ahead
04:02 PM fragalot: indeed, given that half my household is UK living abroad
04:02 PM gloops: the DUP have pledged to support may until her deal gets voted down, then they part company, in that scenario, a vote of no confidence against the govmt could be called
04:02 PM fragalot: a vote of no confidence against may can no longer be called for at least 1 year
04:02 PM gloops: if lost that triggers a general election - it would be february by then lol
04:03 PM gloops: so we could leave the EU with no deal..and no govmt
04:03 PM fragalot: the no .gov part is fine
04:03 PM fragalot: we've got plenty of experience in that :D
04:03 PM rmu: i see the backstop as kind of insurance of EU against completely uncooperative future UL governments, it is an incentive to get a real trade deal
04:03 PM rmu: s/UL/UK/
04:03 PM gloops: it wouldnt be no confidence in may - it would be no confidence in the govmt
04:04 PM rmu: fragalot: that was a no confidence vote in the party, not govmnt
04:04 PM gloops: rmu the backstop is intolerable to many in the UK and ireland
04:04 PM fragalot: rmu: I still stand by my statement :D
04:05 PM rmu: gloops: yeah because they fear that nobody will make a trade deal and then status quo is prolonged
04:05 PM rmu: gloops: and it puts the pressure on UK
04:05 PM gloops: the northern ireland unionist refuse to have any different arrangement for NI than the UK mainland
04:05 PM rmu: gloops: as it was not possible to negotiate any trade deals in the time since brexit it is highly plausible that it will not be any easier in 2 years
04:06 PM gloops: rmu the backstop loads any negotiations in favour of the EU
04:06 PM rmu: not really
04:07 PM fragalot: not quite.. but it allows life to continue as those negotiations are taking place
04:08 PM andypugh: The iPhone app seems to want a password, and I don’t think I have one.
04:08 PM fragalot: have yuo tried 'Hunder6' ?
04:09 PM fragalot: Hunter*
04:21 PM gloops: here it comes - The front page of tomorrow's Daily Telegraph: @DominicRaab: Cut business tax with EU 39bn #TomorrowsPaperToday
04:22 PM gloops: the brexit blueprint for the UK was always a low tax low regs trading hub
04:23 PM gloops: so under the terror of no deal - we offset the fictional trading crisis by offering huge tax breaks to encourage investment and trade - using the money we save from the EU lol
04:24 PM rmu: https://www.ft.com/content/72252768-47de-11e8-8ae9-4b5ddcca99b3
04:25 PM rmu: nobody will want to do business with somebody that defrauds other countries of 39bn
04:26 PM gloops: defraud?
04:26 PM gloops: im sure the chinese will be very concerned
04:28 PM fragalot: not really
04:28 PM fragalot: the chinese game is ultra low wages
04:29 PM gloops: i mean concerned we didnt pay the EU
04:29 PM gloops: after all the EU books havent been signed off for 20 years, they cant exactly accuse others..
04:30 PM fragalot: most of that money is actually going to go to projects that the UK started,.. it's not just a EU bill
04:33 PM gloops: they say we cant take part in said projects after brexit
04:34 PM gloops: anyway we're having our own space program now
04:34 PM rmu: gloops: all the UK residents that were employed by the EU and have pensions etc.., you want to leave them in the dust? how do you think these things should be settled?
04:35 PM gloops: you mean the EU isnt going to honour the pensions?
04:35 PM rmu: what about other obligations the UK entered into that can more or less be attributed to the EU, that is all part of this 39bn "bill"
04:36 PM gloops: the UK may have to cut its losses with some things
04:37 PM fragalot: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1055978/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Theresa-May-Norway-European-Union-deal-latest <== lol
04:38 PM gloops: theyll never go for that here anyway - free movement
04:39 PM rmu: hehe... 'Ms Lunde added the UK would “mess it all up for us the way you have messed it all up for yourselves”.'
04:39 PM fragalot: :D
04:39 PM gloops: the UK isnt messed up though, we're doing fine
04:40 PM gloops: the EU is being slightly overconfident in its achievements in these negotiations, the UK has quite a formidable reputation for diplomacy you know
04:41 PM gloops: in the old days the colonies used to call the UK 'the old fox'
04:41 PM rmu: it seems the UK lacks confidence in these negotiations, else we would have some result
04:41 PM gloops: are you sure you arent seeing the trap?
04:42 PM rmu: i don't see any trap, but i'm no negotiator
04:44 PM rmu: but some negotiation strategy of UK surely seems odd, like the election. reminds of election in greece to get "strong mandate" by the people
04:45 PM rmu: somehow the whole negotiation between UK and EU reminds of the greece <-> EURO group negotiations lead by (on the greek side) varoufakis
04:45 PM gloops: well, parliament was well aware of the approach the eu would take
04:46 PM rmu: so you lead out a big trap for EU and now you decide which way EU will step in?
04:47 PM gloops: lol, alls im saying is, dont take the apparent UK position at face value, there may be several layers
04:49 PM rmu: who knows the UK position? what's in the news is incomplete and at best only half of the picture
04:50 PM gloops: it seemed funny that all the other credible experienced candidates dropped out of the tory leadership contest when may won - for no apparent reason
04:50 PM rmu: there is the official communicated position of you prime minister, that can be defined as "the" UK position
04:50 PM andypugh: gloops: Sadly I think you might be over-estimating the guile of our leaders.
04:51 PM gloops: andypugh maybe, but there is just something about all this 'chaos' in govmt that smacks of an underlying plan
04:51 PM andypugh: I suspect that Johnson dropped out because the job at the moment is a poison chalice and the incumbent prime minister is dooemed to be unpopular, and Johnson couldn’t face being an unpopular PM.
04:53 PM rmu: gloops: if you want to look for an underlying plan ask putin, he has to be congratulated for trump and for brexit
04:53 PM gloops: andrea leadsom also mysteriously disappeared
04:54 PM gloops: all the time may has stalled and delayed, its like they wanted to end up with no deal right at the end
04:55 PM rmu: and then what? risk months of chaos?
04:55 PM gloops: then we are in a real negotiating position
04:55 PM rmu: like the greek?
04:56 PM gloops: you are 39 billion short, bmws have 20% tariffs
04:56 PM gloops: greece was bankrupt
04:56 PM rmu: it's not like the 39billion would flow immediately
04:56 PM gloops: you could borrow on it though
04:57 PM rmu: and, you could also borrow on it if the UK doesn't pay
04:58 PM rmu: how many BMWs are imported into UK per year? that will surely be a big drop in the ocean.
04:58 PM gloops: i think the UK has just sounded the EU out and wont bother with their offer
04:58 PM gloops: 7% of bmw sales i think
04:59 PM rmu: so those super-rich brits magically won't buy BMWs any more because they re even more expensive? don't think so
05:00 PM rmu: but in the grand scheme of things, BMW doesn't matter
05:00 PM gloops: About 1 in 7 German cars are sold in the UK
05:01 PM rmu: go on and replace them with chinese cars
05:01 PM gloops: 14%
05:02 PM rmu: seems there is a demand that will magically vanish in 3 months
05:02 PM gloops: lol, your sales pitch isnt very convivial rmu
05:03 PM rmu: that is a fancy word
05:04 PM rmu: in my opinion, less cars sold is good for the planet, so there you go
05:04 PM gloops: you cant add 20% and not affect sales, obviously it doesnt mean sales will stop but 20% will cause a slump id think
05:04 PM gloops: but 70% of your workforce is in autos
05:05 PM rmu: no
05:05 PM rmu: i think 30% of our workforce is in tourism
05:06 PM rmu: and it seems more than 50% of UK produced cars are exported into EU
05:06 PM gloops: yes the 70% figure was a stupid meme i think, it is a considerable number though
05:07 PM MarcelineVQ: It's nice to see the current state of affairs as some kind of plan, but from an outsider perspective it just looks like may is a traitor to the UK and that the government doesn't give a singular shit about enacting the people's will.
05:08 PM andypugh: 50% of UK produced cars is about 10 cars though.
05:08 PM jthornton: where is the mini cooper produced for USA?
05:08 PM gloops: Marceline yes im seeing that too, but hoping there is a plan lol
05:08 PM rmu: really? formula 1 stuff?
05:09 PM andypugh: We don’t have the motor industry that we used to have, that’s for sure.
05:09 PM rmu: MarcelineVQ: what should they have done?
05:11 PM gloops: we could make cars again, we have had some minor revival in motorcycles
05:11 PM MarcelineVQ: I'm not especially qualified to answer what should happen
05:12 PM rmu: "the will of the people" ignores thermodynamics
05:12 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmcmqTAu6b8 <- a collection of all the UK-made cars
05:13 PM rmu: what about landrover, rover, mini, vauxhall and all those other UK brands?
05:14 PM gloops: all gone
05:15 PM rmu: jaguar?
05:15 PM gloops: we are still making sporty/prestige stuff, definitely got the know how - no real incentive for mass production though
05:15 PM rmu: where are they produced? vauxhall is just another name for opel and is now owned by PSA it seems, but i thought they did also produce in UK
05:16 PM gloops: all been bought by foreign investors
05:16 PM andypugh: It depends if you refer to UK-owned car companies or UK-made cars. That video was from 5 years ago, but I think that they all still exist.
05:16 PM rmu: UK made
05:18 PM rmu: https://www.acea.be/statistics/article/motor-vehicle-trade-between-the-uk-and-main-eu-partners
05:20 PM gloops: germany the big loser there then rmu
05:21 PM gloops: in the event of wto
05:21 PM rmu: wto?
05:21 PM gloops: world trade organisation tariffs on cars
05:22 PM rmu: seems prices of cars will go up in UK
05:23 PM gloops: if there are tariffs i doubt theyll be there long, but youd probably see an uptake in home produced cars in the UK, and a slump in german made imports
05:23 PM gloops: it also creates an opening for other makers to enter - indian, chinese etc
05:25 PM rmu: yeah, as i said, you will replace all those mercedes, bmws and audis of your superrich kids with chinese and indian imports
05:25 PM gloops: why not? they have your engines in them lol
05:26 PM rmu: not really
05:27 PM rmu: BMW motors are produced not very far from here, about 1.3mio/year
05:28 PM rmu: also motors for lincoln and landrovers
05:28 PM rmu: but the days of ICEs are numbered anyway
05:30 PM andypugh: Indeed. I think I need a new job :-/
05:31 PM gloops: yes, even the days of wheels are numbered
05:32 PM rmu: but that number has another order of magnitude
05:33 PM rmu: in the end, the continuum hypthesis is undecidable, so it is anybodies guess if everthing is numbered
05:35 PM gloops: passenger drone tests seem successful enough
05:37 PM rmu: if you ignore thermodynamics it could work
05:37 PM jthornton: and cost
05:39 PM rmu: that's the same in the end
05:40 PM gloops: 100mph as the crow flies, no traffic, no emissions
05:40 PM gloops: no seatbelts
05:42 PM MarcelineVQ: no emissions is the kind of thing you'd see in an ad :> batteries don't charge themselves
05:42 PM rmu: line of sight with human-sized obstacles will not work in a city
05:42 PM gloops: gps guidance rmu
05:43 PM rmu: that doesn't even work for relatively few commercial airliners
05:43 PM gloops: vertical landing - easy parking
05:43 PM rmu: it won't do obstacle avoidance
05:43 PM jthornton: the big problem is flying is way more expensive than driving
05:43 PM rmu: it won't do collision avoidance
05:43 PM gloops: they can put a parcel on my front step
05:44 PM rmu: that is something completely different
05:45 PM rmu: your parcel won't complain (vomit, die or become a vegetable) if you subject it to multiple gs of acceleration
05:45 PM rmu: it has next to no weight compared to a human
05:46 PM rmu: and it doesn't go anywhere near 100mph
05:47 PM gloops: yes thats now, think 20 years from now
05:47 PM rmu: thermodynamics won't change and i don't see mini-nukes powering drones in the next 20 years
05:49 PM rmu: flight-planning can probably be somewhat solved, given there are no "bad faith" actors
05:52 PM jthornton: the only thing that makes any sense is a land based electric powered distribution system for packages
05:52 PM Tom_L: cannon shot delivery
05:52 PM Tom_L: ftw
05:53 PM jthornton: but as soon as you get out of the "big city" it would not be cost effective
05:53 PM jthornton: yea I can do that but it's gotta be smaller than a golf ball and pretty solid
05:54 PM Tom_L: iirc at one time they were testing electronic payloads in those big cannons
05:54 PM jthornton: unless the Paris Gun is still in service somewhere
05:54 PM gloops: i thought some of my stuff had been fired from a cannon
05:54 PM Tom_L: from the way it arrived?
05:54 PM rmu: energy efficiency of a gun is also very low
05:54 PM jthornton: aye
05:54 PM gloops: yeah looked like it had a rough landing
05:55 PM Tom_L: toss it in the drink and let the tide take it
05:55 PM jthornton: hamster fart power is the most cost effective
05:55 PM gloops: space elevator - into orbit, drop out over destination
05:55 PM Tom_L: jthornton, you got any windmills over there?
05:56 PM Tom_L: theyre everywhere here
05:56 PM rmu: windmill-powered trebuchets
05:56 PM jthornton: I have determined that setting rat traps are a waste of time... much easier to just put cat food out
05:56 PM jthornton: not a one, too hilly for them
05:56 PM andypugh: Eh? How hilly is it?
05:57 PM jthornton: rolling hills mostly all very wooded
05:57 PM Tom_L: good for making moonshine
05:58 PM MarcelineVQ: jthornton: car food?
05:58 PM jthornton: we have built a trebudhet as well as a ballista
05:58 PM MarcelineVQ: *cat
05:58 PM jthornton: aye cat food
05:58 PM MarcelineVQ: bad for them?
05:58 PM jthornton: well the cats you attract are bad for them yes
05:58 PM MarcelineVQ: hoho
05:58 PM andypugh: They don’t seem to mind putting wind turbines on hills in the UK https://goo.gl/images/oiF3ob
05:59 PM Tom_L: those look like they came from the US
05:59 PM jthornton: aye but this is rural area, I see wind turbine parts going down the highway very often
05:59 PM jthornton: but none stop here
06:00 PM jthornton: well there is a tiny one at cherokee village
06:00 PM jthornton: but it's usually not spinning
06:00 PM Tom_L: all you need is one. it would power your whole shop and then some
06:00 PM jthornton: one cat?
06:00 PM rmu: same here: http://sternwind.at/
06:00 PM Tom_L: one windmill
06:01 PM gloops: make one
06:01 PM Tom_L: cats are too lazy to produce much energy
06:01 PM jthornton: I have considered that for sure
06:01 PM gloops: just the batteries to find
06:02 PM andypugh: The (Ford) Dagenham Engine Plant is powered by wind turbines: https://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/ford-factory-to-add-third-wind-turbine.html
06:02 PM andypugh: If they can power an aluminium casting line they can power your workshop :-)
06:03 PM jthornton: aye but I can't afford a windmill that large lol
06:03 PM rmu: become a utility
06:03 PM Tom_L: http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/fp2a.asp
06:03 PM Tom_L: washer motor
06:03 PM jthornton: you can sell energy back to the grid
06:04 PM Tom_L: bud i used to chat with in Au built one of those
06:04 PM Tom_L: lost all the blades in a windstorm
06:04 PM jthornton: that doesn't look very efficient, looks like it needs better wings
06:04 PM gloops: a lot of diy turbines seem to be based on car alternators
06:04 PM rmu: you could use old stepper motors as generators. nema34 should be good for 100-200 W
06:05 PM Tom_L: F&P pancake motors work pretty good
06:05 PM jthornton: hmm good idea I only nee 10 to power the lights
06:05 PM jthornton: I do have a tower at the top of my property but it's just at the top of the trees
06:06 PM gloops: you only want an old 3kw generator
06:07 PM gloops: $100 non runner
06:10 PM gloops: what do you do with the electric though?
06:14 PM andypugh: Charge a car?
06:15 PM rmu: monitor the chickens, open and close the coop-doors?
06:15 PM Tom_L: store it in deep cycle batteries and convert it to AC and use it
06:16 PM gloops: that seem to be the awkward part, making electric is straightforward, getting it to the TV isnt
06:17 PM rmu: storing it is the hard part
06:19 PM gloops: plus there are regulations here, they wont have you just wiring some deathtrap up to the grid, insurance may be void etc
06:22 PM rmu: hehe, that will go away with brexit ;)
06:22 PM rmu: copying is done. gn8.
06:23 PM gloops: goodnight
06:59 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--sH0071ZDc
07:05 PM andypugh: flyback: Do you have LinuxCNC + a stepper machine? Have you spotted the “daisy.ngc” file?
07:06 PM flyback: no
07:07 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyvdr1jDDeY
07:07 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgKKCJQ29KY
07:08 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNuI6keQXYA
07:11 PM andypugh: The stepper organ seems to be like a cross beween a Hammond Organ and a Mellotron
07:38 PM Lcvette: hey all, have a question regarding my MPG and wire length. I was wondering about using a DB15 cable between the front and back of the machine to make it a bit cleaner but was concerned if there is an issue the same as using a db25 cable over a certain length?
07:38 PM Lcvette: cable length would be 15'
07:39 PM Lcvette: cable length of the MPG is probably another 6-8'
07:41 PM andypugh: Is rhe MPG analogue or digital
07:41 PM Lcvette: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CZ7F3Y3/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
07:41 PM Lcvette: analog
07:41 PM andypugh: I would think it is probably alright then
07:42 PM Lcvette: ok
07:42 PM andypugh: A couple of CAT5 cables is probably cheaper though
07:43 PM Lcvette: i looked at those but the screw temrinal plugs are more and need twice as many
07:43 PM Rab: Yeah, their pinout diagram is a mess but it's basically just DC switching (and pulses for the encoder).
07:43 PM Lcvette: yeah it was fun deciphering that
07:43 PM Lcvette: lol
07:43 PM andypugh: And if you miss the odd pulse on an MPG you probably won’t even notice.
07:44 PM Lcvette: :/
07:44 PM andypugh: Anyway.. Goodnight
07:44 PM Lcvette: lol
07:44 PM Lcvette: night andy
08:27 PM * Lcvette uploaded an image: image.png (134KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/ErsiSrtDQqKFdFxArLNSWiQa >
08:28 PM * Lcvette uploaded an image: image.png (180KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/QiEGUlsluNAWDGWPXoLlfbkk >
08:28 PM Lcvette: anyone know for ceretain which of these two encoder types the mesa should use?
08:28 PM Lcvette: pcw_mea:
08:28 PM Lcvette: pcw_home:
08:28 PM Lcvette: ?
08:28 PM Lcvette: pcw_mesa:
08:28 PM Lcvette: ?
08:32 PM gregcnc: both will work, differential potentially has advantages
08:33 PM Lcvette: ok
08:35 PM gregcnc: I need to see if I can add a pendant to the lathe without going through Emco
08:35 PM Lcvette: you got an emco?
08:35 PM gregcnc: yes
08:35 PM Lcvette: pics man pic!
08:36 PM gregcnc: one is still in pieces, and now that i've had another that runs might be for much longer
08:37 PM Lcvette: you have 2 emcos?
08:37 PM Lcvette: what models?
08:37 PM gregcnc: http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/emcocompact6/
09:59 PM veek: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_fan sleeve bearing - that descriptions a bit weird.. 'The bearing has a spiral groove in it that pumps fluid from a reservoir. This allows them to be safely mounted with the shaft horizontal (unlike sleeve bearings), since the fluid being pumped lubricates the top of the shaft' I thought a sleeve was just two metal rings mounted concentrically with some oil in between held in place by surface tension?
09:59 PM veek: what prevents a sleeve from being mounted horizontally?
10:01 PM veek: he's saying that the oil is held in a reservoir and when the shaft spins centrifugal forces will pull the oil out along the grooves.. ??
10:03 PM veek: http://e.cdn-hardware.com.br/static/c/m/993908c51fbea75208e87285635082e1
10:08 PM veek: http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image/akg/Air_Cooling/212P/CM_212Plus_A12025-20CB-4BP_sm.jpg
10:09 PM veek: 'Sleeve bearings may be more likely to fail at higher temperatures, and may perform poorly when mounted in any orientation other than vertical.'??
10:13 PM MarcelineVQ: sleeves (bushings) do have the potential to squeeze when heated, which could lead to failure. dunno about the rest
10:14 PM veek: MarcelineVQ, because of thermal expansion of the rings.. inner will touch outer?
10:14 PM MarcelineVQ: yes
10:22 PM veek: okay so if the rifle bearing's mounted vertically, the oil's at the bottom and capillary action will draw the oil into the grooves.. so once the bearing spins.. all is hunky dory
10:22 PM veek: (thanks to Branes :p from #hardware)
10:28 PM * veek purrs happily
10:41 PM veek: check this nice https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/hubs-bearings/identify-tapered-roller-bearing-damage/