#linuxcnc Logs
Dec 15 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:17 AM veek: why are bolts so very expensive and can you make your own .. I was looking at some M5 15mm bolts - they are x12 times (minimum) the steel weight
01:21 AM XXCoder: demend and unwilling to make
01:21 AM XXCoder: you need turret lathe to make ampounts worth making yourself
01:21 AM veek: lemme check thanks
01:21 AM veek: can't we use a press and die and some heat to melt the head in an oven and squeeze some of our own bolts
01:21 AM veek: ppl DIY shop presses 20 ton and such
01:23 AM XXCoder: dunno
01:24 AM veek: hmm.. the die would be in two parts.. so you'd need to machine the area where it joins.. i dunno much about die making anyhow :(
01:24 AM XXCoder: if you ened machine as well as machine threads and face off botton
01:25 AM XXCoder: rest dont need any kind of precision behind "it works".
01:25 AM veek: but frigging 12 times is ridiculous .. what happened to mass manufacturing reduces prices
01:26 AM XXCoder: well could always go chinese but could get butter alloy
01:29 AM veek: hmm a lot of people have complained about expensive bolts
01:45 AM Deejay: moin
02:16 AM SpeedEvil: Or find a reasonable vendor
02:17 AM SpeedEvil: https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/en/products/m5-x-16-hexagon-head-set-screws-high-tensile-grade-8-8-bright-zinc-plated
02:40 AM gloops: strong bolts? what are those for?
02:42 AM gloops: well, can tell im off today, freezing rain, sleet and bloody freezing
02:43 AM gloops: my rapid bandsaw build has turned into another long term project
04:53 AM andypugh: He has gone, but there is a lot of work in bolts, and most commercial ones use rolled threads (stronger) and are heat-treated. And if you go to the right plaxes they do only cost pennies.
04:53 AM andypugh: It seems a it like complaining that PC CPUs cost a lot more than sand does :-)
04:54 AM XXCoder: hey
04:54 AM XXCoder: lol
05:34 AM miss0r|office: andypugh: nice lol
05:34 AM XXCoder: yo
05:34 AM miss0r|office: 'ello
05:35 AM XXCoder: didnt you have project?
05:35 AM miss0r|office: the land rover project?
05:35 AM XXCoder: hmm cnc something?
05:35 AM miss0r|office: yeah. THe controller is sitting right beside me at the moment
05:35 AM XXCoder: cool :)
05:35 AM miss0r|office: All wired up, waiting for me to gather strength to program it :)
05:36 AM XXCoder: myself im just playing with wii u game
05:36 AM miss0r|office: hehe
05:36 AM XXCoder: but evenually circiut board kits will arrive
05:36 AM XXCoder: just playing around with solder
05:36 AM miss0r|office: and I am basically waiting for the misses to go into labor... (any day now)
05:39 AM XXCoder: wow and pre-congats ;)
05:39 AM miss0r|office: What no condolences?
05:39 AM miss0r|office: :P
05:39 AM miss0r|office: Its our number two...
05:39 AM XXCoder: lol
05:40 AM miss0r|office: What circuit boards are you waiting for?
05:40 AM XXCoder: oh silly stuff lemme link to couple
05:40 AM miss0r|office: Just give me the headlines
05:41 AM XXCoder: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Three-Dimensional-3D-Christmas-Tree-LED-DIY-Kit-Red-Green-Yellow-LED-Flash-Circuit-Kit-Electronic/32744769456.html
05:42 AM XXCoder: those kits is REALLY cheap
05:43 AM jthornton: morning
05:43 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:47 AM miss0r|office: not realy in a position to clock links right now. What are they?
05:47 AM XXCoder: oh small fun solder project kit
05:47 AM XXCoder: that one specifically is less than 2 usd xmas tree leds battery and stuff nesscary to run it
05:47 AM jthornton: a christmas tree made with circuit boards and leds
05:48 AM jthornton: my link shows $2.80
05:49 AM XXCoder: what I ordered is solder surface, kits (tree, 1 hz-50 mhz crystal oscillayor counter, "breathing light parts" (no idea), function signal generator, "dream light" (also no idea)
05:49 AM XXCoder: jthornton: youre right sorry lol
05:51 AM veek: what's the material used in welder film to protect the eyes? it has to block UV? #10 etc? plain glass?
05:54 AM XXCoder: no idea?
05:54 AM XXCoder: theres also ones that dim automically
05:56 AM jthornton: I havn't bought anything from aliexpress since they ripped me off for $300 for ssd's
05:57 AM XXCoder: some stuff I never buy, and thats storage media of any kind, batteries of any kind, charger of any kind
05:57 AM veek: \how did they rip you off?
05:57 AM XXCoder: 'exceptions is ones already included with product i want
05:57 AM veek: Kingdian?
05:57 AM jthornton: never sent it and I didn't complain in time
05:57 AM veek: guhh!
05:58 AM XXCoder: doh
05:58 AM XXCoder: only once did someone try to rip me off
05:58 AM XXCoder: they failed
05:58 AM veek: jthornton, too late to rake it up again? 300's a lot of cash
06:01 AM veek: I don't buy much anyhow.. still a noob so.. +a lot of the stuff is available domestically imho but you got to know the in-out of the business to buy and not get cheated
06:01 AM jthornton: yea I got busy and forgot to file a claim in time
06:01 AM XXCoder: jthornton: btw if any of aliexpress seller tells you that they acciently overcharged you shipping by $1 and you need to accept dispute to get it, dont.
06:02 AM XXCoder: aliexpress you can only get refund once
06:02 AM XXCoder: it happened only once so pretty rare
06:02 AM jthornton: thanks for the heads up
06:02 AM Tom_L: morning
06:03 AM jthornton: morning
06:04 AM andypugh: veek: I would buy something from a welding shop, rather than guess
06:04 AM Tom_L: 26°F Hi 56 and clear
06:04 AM Tom_L: andypugh's clock must have stopped...
06:04 AM veek: andypugh, yeah, eye operations are way more expensive.. still good to know how all this works
06:05 AM Tom_L: welding glass is cheap compared to not using it
06:05 AM jthornton: 47°F with a high of 48°F and raining
06:05 AM XXCoder: take it from deaf guy. dont risk your eyes.
06:05 AM XXCoder: oh yeah
06:05 AM XXCoder: jthornton: i went to work today, worked only for 2 hours before blackout.
06:05 AM XXCoder: bah,
06:05 AM andypugh: Tom_L: ?
06:06 AM MarcelineVQ: XXCoder: we tend to share weather,also had blackout around lunchtime here
06:06 AM XXCoder: thankfully home area didnt have one
06:06 AM Tom_L: ahh nevermind.. i was thinking it was the middle of the night there
06:06 AM andypugh: No, it’s noon.
06:06 AM XXCoder: what sucks about work blackout is that one part may well be scrapped.
06:07 AM XXCoder: kart boring tool was in middle of part
06:07 AM XXCoder: bore has +- .0005" tol
06:07 AM XXCoder: yeah not likely to pass if restart
06:07 AM MarcelineVQ: can you bore from other direction? :>
06:08 AM XXCoder: spring cut will kill it
06:09 AM jthornton: when I worked in the shipyard building destroyers one job was to weld tabs in the exhaust stack for splitters (things that cool the exhaust so heat seeking missiles don't fly in) anyway I would get the tab in position and turn my head and the welder would tack it then I'd check it and turn my head while she welded it out... got the worst welding burn from the reflection off the opposite wall
06:09 AM XXCoder: ow
06:10 AM XXCoder: you probably ended up seeing it for days
06:10 AM XXCoder: or was you talking about skin type burn
06:11 AM jthornton: no sand in the eyes burn
06:11 AM XXCoder: literal sand or?
06:11 AM XXCoder: basically powder from soldering
06:12 AM jthornton: felt like sand in your eyes from the welding arc burn
06:12 AM XXCoder: not great feeling i guess heh
06:12 AM andypugh: That’s why you shouldn’t trust women to weld :-)
06:13 AM andypugh: I assume this was stick welding?
06:14 AM jthornton: no aluminum welding with a spool gun IIRC
06:14 AM jthornton: everything from the main deck up was aluminum
06:15 AM andypugh: I once brazed up a three-man tandem bicycle frame using a carbon arc torch (which used to be a common accessory for arc welders). I did it in a Tee-shirt. Ow.
06:16 AM jthornton: instant sun burn
06:17 AM XXCoder: new way to do tanb
06:18 AM jthornton: I wear long sleeve even when it's hot because I had melanoma on my arm years ago
06:19 AM XXCoder: ah skin cancer, the nost curable of cancers
06:22 AM XXCoder: *most
06:22 AM andypugh: Hair cancer :-)
06:22 AM andypugh: (Yes, I know that hair is dead so that can’t be a thing, but if it was, it would be an easy fix)
06:23 AM XXCoder: :P
06:23 AM XXCoder: unless its all hair at once
06:24 AM jthornton: melanoma if not treated right can be very deadly
06:24 AM XXCoder: woul have to remove all of em at once
06:24 AM XXCoder: jt indeed. good thing its so easy to stop once notice early enough
08:15 AM SpeedEvil: Clam cancer is a thing.
08:15 AM SpeedEvil: It is a transmissible cancer too. The cancer can infect other clams.
08:16 AM SpeedEvil: http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-337/
08:17 AM SpeedEvil: A handful of transmissible cancers have been found, thoughnone inhumans with intact immune systems
08:26 AM rmu: human papilloma virus causes cervical cancer in perfectly healthy women
08:28 AM andypugh: Tasmanian devils have a big problem with one
08:29 AM SpeedEvil: rmu: yes, but it's a virus causing cancer. It's not other animals cells of the same species causing cancer.
08:29 AM SpeedEvil: And being infectious directly, without any virus.
08:29 AM andypugh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_facial_tumour_disease
08:30 AM pcw_home: sheep can get lung cancer from a virus
08:31 AM andypugh: Though, again, to reinforce SpeedEvil’s point, that’s a transmissible virus not a transmissible cancer.
08:33 AM pcw_home: There are even some endogenous viruses that cause cancer
08:35 AM andypugh: Poor design, if you ask me.
08:36 AM pcw_home: whats funny is that it appears that some endogenous retroviruses were retained because they provide resistance to similar external viruses
08:37 AM pcw_home: kind of like a built in vaccine
08:47 AM rmu: interesting
08:51 AM rmu: andypugh: this is poor design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_laryngeal_nerve ;-)
09:25 AM andypugh: Yes, that does look a bit daft.
09:27 AM SpeedEvil: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/files/2012/04/Kangaroo-vaginas.jpg - worksafe
11:42 AM sensille: my 6040 came with a tool touch probe. does linuxcnc has builtin-support for that? i generate the gcode with f360
12:02 PM Deejay: re
12:17 PM jdh: sensille: yes
12:18 PM andypugh: sensille: Yes, in that there is a dedicated hal pin for a probe input and the probing G-codes are supported
12:19 PM andypugh: sensille: motion.probe-input http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/motion.9.html
12:19 PM andypugh: G38.N straight probe: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/gcode/g-code.html#gcode:g38
12:20 PM jdh: mine also came with a cheesy probe. I don't think it actually has a connection to the cheesier BOB in it.
12:22 PM Papagno: Hi at all . on actual master we have a problem with spindle at speed . the problem is caused the last patch for fix velocity zero arc to arc transiction in some case
12:22 PM Papagno: The problem is : m3 s24000
12:23 PM Papagno: stop spindle first the speed at speed is true
12:23 PM Papagno: after in mdi g1 x-100 f100
12:23 PM Papagno: the machine not move
12:24 PM Papagno: can test on axis but disable pin spindle at speed for simulation
12:24 PM Papagno: if command m3 s24000
12:24 PM Papagno: wait ramp for have spindle at speed true
12:24 PM Papagno: after command g1 x-10 f100
12:25 PM Papagno: the axis move normally and this is ok
12:25 PM Papagno: the problem is only if have commanded a m3 and stop spindle first the have spindle at speed true
12:25 PM Papagno: some solution ?
12:26 PM sensille: andypugh: thanks
12:27 PM Papagno: andypugh, can fix this bug
12:27 PM Papagno: andypugh, the problem not is in multiplindle patch
12:28 PM Papagno: but in new Tp fixed for resolve problem the zero velocity when have transicion arc to arc
12:28 PM andypugh: Papagno: So, spindle speed is zero, spindle speed is true, but motion is still inhibited?
12:28 PM Papagno: andypugh, no
12:29 PM Papagno: andypugh, command m3 s24000 , stop spindle first the have spindle at speed true , after command g1 x1 -10 , the axis not move and cnc is run
12:29 PM Papagno: andypugh, understand ?
12:30 PM andypugh: No, sorry.
12:31 PM Papagno: andypugh, you have temview , for connect on my pc and see in realtime problem ?
12:32 PM andypugh: Is the machine not moving when spindle at speed is false, or moving when it shouldn’t and spindle-at-speed is true?
12:32 PM andypugh: Sorry, ignore that.
12:32 PM Papagno: if have spindle at speed = true not have problem.
12:32 PM andypugh: Is the machine not moving when spindle-at-speed is true, or is it moving when spindle-at-speed is false?
12:32 PM Papagno: the problem is :
12:33 PM Papagno: if command a m3 S24000
12:33 PM Papagno: the spindle for arrived at 24000 have ramp
12:33 PM Papagno: want about 6 secod for ramp ok
12:34 PM andypugh: OK
12:34 PM Papagno: when ramp ok inverter send digital out
12:34 PM andypugh: OK
12:34 PM Papagno: ramp ok and it is connect at spindle at speed
12:34 PM Papagno: the problem is present only if you stop spindle first the ramp ok
12:35 PM andypugh: You mean stop the spindle before the ramp is finished and before spindle-at-speed goes true?
12:35 PM Papagno: in this case if coomand a g1 not is executed , cnc is append and wait spindle at speed true, but i not have command a m3 , but stop spindle
12:35 PM Papagno: yes
12:36 PM Papagno: yes now understand
12:36 PM gregcnc: why does this situation occur?
12:36 PM andypugh: What is the value of spindle-at-speed in this situation?
12:37 PM Papagno: in the same velocity commanded
12:37 PM Papagno: the problem not is velocity , but spindle at speed signal
12:37 PM andypugh: I mean the actual value of the HAL pin.
12:37 PM Papagno: for test :
12:38 PM andypugh: Does the VFD output a spindle-at-speed true when the spindle is stopped?
12:38 PM Papagno: no , not is normal . when spindle is stopped not is ramp ok
12:39 PM Papagno: the spindle stop , spindle at speed is false
12:39 PM Papagno: this is normal
12:39 PM Papagno: on all machine you have this logic
12:39 PM pcw_home: Not at all
12:40 PM Papagno: the spindle at speed true is on when have coomanded m3 or m4 and s and ramp is ok
12:40 PM pcw_home: many will use feedback so spindle-at-speed will be true anywhere, even stopped
12:42 PM andypugh: I think this is correct behaviour.
12:42 PM pcw_home: I think so too, the VFD signal is not really the same as LinuxCNCs spindle-at-speed meaning
12:48 PM andypugh: The answer might be to use HAL logic and drive motion.spindle-at-speed from VFD-at-speed-input OR NOT motion.spindle-on (or spindle.0.on)
12:48 PM Papagno: i can modification the logic for have spindle at speed true when spindle is stop, but i thig not normally, monday test this . i thing can have same problem if on the same line write m3 s24000 g1 x-10 f100
12:48 PM Papagno: the g1 wiil wait the ramp ok ?
12:48 PM pcw_home: When a spindle encoder is used, typically spindle-at-speed comes from a "near" component so is true at 24000RMP and 0 RPM
12:48 PM andypugh: It should, if spindle.0.at-speed is true
12:48 PM Papagno: if the signal spindle at speed is on , when start command g1 and spindle not is conclused ramp
12:48 PM andypugh: (LUT5 might be the easiest way to make the spindle-at-speed logic set to true when the spindle is off.
12:48 PM Papagno: g1 can start first the ramp ok
12:48 PM andypugh: When you say “first” do you mean “before”?
12:48 PM pcw_home: Setting it true when the spindle is off might be a bit dangerous... (still coasting)
12:48 PM Papagno: i thing normally can move machine in g1 if not have commanded a m3
12:49 PM andypugh: I need to experiment in 2.7 to see what that does
12:50 PM Papagno: yes pleased test on 2.7ů
12:50 PM Papagno: i have only master
12:50 PM andypugh: Unfortunately I just checked out and started to build 2.8 to be reafy to look at the problem
12:52 PM pcw_home: I messed around a bit and it seemed to me 2.7 was identical
12:53 PM pcw_home: what problem are you actually trying to solve?, can you not use a G0 move if just moving the spindle to a safe place?
12:55 PM andypugh: (Indeed, I am wondering why you would ever do a G1 with the spindle off)
12:55 PM pcw_home: well engraving with a diamond...
12:56 PM Papagno: i have test is simulation , can connect in or the signal velocicy zero encoder speed and spindle at speed is true when spindle is stop or ramp ok
12:56 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest73068
12:57 PM Papagno: monday test on real machine
12:57 PM Papagno: and advise if ok
01:01 PM andypugh: I have experimented in 2.8
01:02 PM andypugh: Machine on, home axes
01:02 PM andypugh: setp spindle-at-speed 0
01:02 PM andypugh: G1 X10 F100 -> machine moves
01:02 PM andypugh: M3 S100
01:03 PM andypugh: G1 X0 F100 -> machine does not move
01:03 PM andypugh: setp spindle-at-speed 1
01:03 PM andypugh: Machine starts to move
01:03 PM andypugh: setp spindle-at-speed 0
01:03 PM andypugh: M5
01:04 PM andypugh: G1 X10 F100 -> machine moves! (ie, with spindle-at-speed false, but with spindle off)
01:04 PM andypugh: Which isn’t what I was expecting, but does seem to be what you were expecting. Or is this the unexpected behaviour that you have been describing?
01:11 PM Papagno: not is this situation
01:11 PM Papagno: m3 s100
01:12 PM Papagno: spindle at speed 0
01:12 PM Papagno: abort or spindle stop or m5
01:12 PM Papagno: g1 not move
01:12 PM Papagno: andypugh,
01:13 PM Papagno: andypugh, understandtest
01:14 PM Papagno: you thing coomand spindle rotation, for same motive not have spindle at speed
01:15 PM Papagno: after want move in g1 in mdi, the g1 not is executed
01:16 PM Papagno: because at every m3 not have spindle at speed true
01:18 PM Papagno: andypugh, Your test is differetent understand ?
01:30 PM andypugh: I think that is because the system is stuck in “waiting for spindle at speed = true” and it does not notice that the spindle has been stopped.
01:30 PM andypugh: This is the same with 2.7
01:31 PM andypugh: setp spindle-at-speed 0
01:31 PM andypugh: G1 F100 X10 -> no movement
01:31 PM andypugh: M5
01:31 PM andypugh: Still no movement
01:31 PM andypugh: setp spindle-at-speed 1 -> movement
01:32 PM andypugh: (setp spindle-at-speed 0 / G1 F100 X0 -> movement)
01:34 PM andypugh: If you arange your system so that spindle-at-speed is true for a stopped spindle then you won’t see this problem (and I think that most systems will be using a spndle-at-speed which is true with the spindle stopped)
01:34 PM andypugh: Whether this is a bug or not, I cna;t decide.
01:37 PM Papagno: ok tahnsk for support , monday test on real m achine
03:24 PM Deejay: gn8
04:16 PM XXCoder: as predicted one part was scrapped
04:29 PM flyback: https://www.geek.com/news/commodore-amiga-computer-has-been-running-the-acheat-in-19-schools-for-30-years-1625147/
04:30 PM XXCoder: nice
04:34 PM jthornton: it only seems logical that if s = 0 and the spindle is stopped that spindle is at speed
04:39 PM XXCoder: guess so?
04:42 PM andypugh: This is the data coming out of my 24-bit A/D converter.
04:42 PM andypugh: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/r7cJ2bgDmM/
04:42 PM andypugh: I am not convinced..
04:42 PM andypugh: The format is the 3 bytes from the SPI read then those three bytes as a 24-bit hex, then decimal, then float.
04:43 PM andypugh: Too many repeated bytes, I reckon
04:43 PM XXCoder: whats value of?
04:43 PM XXCoder: amp or what
04:43 PM andypugh: Just a voltage
04:44 PM XXCoder: interesting so values is way off?
04:44 PM andypugh: No idea.
04:44 PM andypugh: But it doesn’t vary sensibly as I move the arm
04:45 PM andypugh: That is with everything stationary
04:45 PM andypugh: So the MSB (at leas) shouldn’t move.
04:54 PM andypugh: Another odd thing, you almost never see a number < 0x80
04:54 PM andypugh: (It happens, but rarely) So I think there is a problem with the SPI link
05:00 PM sync: doesn't it do differential spi stuff?
05:01 PM sync: idk it has been years since I looked into mine
05:01 PM andypugh: Doesn’t what?
05:02 PM sync: your arm
05:02 PM andypugh: This is 24-bit 8-channle ADC into Arduino
05:02 PM sync: ah, eh
05:02 PM andypugh: Ah, no, this one has potentiometers in the lbows
05:02 PM andypugh: (elbows)
05:02 PM sync: egh
05:03 PM andypugh: Well, it saves homing
05:03 PM andypugh: And I think they are quality devices, they seem pretty stable and sensitive with the multimeter.
09:18 PM veek: 1. what's the force involved when knocking a bolt into shape? 10T 20T? 50T? 2. Can you safely use bottle jacks in parallel?
10:01 PM veek: is there a good drawing of how the drill press works (the chuck/spindle to pulley bit)
10:10 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
10:55 PM veek: wow check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZj059q4Wm8 basically there are 4 internal parts to a chuck.. the jaws, the sleeve and 2 other parts and then there's the drill-press arbor. the jaws move in/out like a little Alien-movie-jaw when the sleeve's turned
11:34 PM * veek purrs happily
11:34 PM veek: https://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-number/113213151/0247/0713080.html