#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 27 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:39 AM miss0r: Ahh. That feeling when you are laying under your land rover, trying to figure out why the pipe to hose joint on the frame for the rear axle is leaking & end up stripping the threads out of the nut while brake fluid runs down your arms.. :)
12:42 AM miss0r: The list of joys for land rover owners are just endless
01:05 AM CaptHindsight: miss0r: thats because you were supposed to get a Land Cruiser not a Land Rover :P
01:13 AM miss0r: CaptHindsight: That would be foolish :) Lanr-rovers are much more fuel efficient than land cruisers.. :) As their primari propulsion IS a land cruiser :D
01:13 AM miss0r: still, I love the old thing :D
01:21 AM Getty: XXCoder: i have finally decided ;-)
01:32 AM Deejay: moin
04:26 AM XXCoder: Getty: nice
04:26 AM XXCoder: whats you decided on?
04:29 AM sensille: i received my first aluminum sheets. is it normal that they're all bent or should i find a different seller?
04:30 AM sensille: even a 100x100x10mm block is bent
04:33 AM gloops: sensille how bent?
04:34 AM gloops: i got some 16mm plates at least a 1mm bow in them, its pretty standard unless you get cast
04:35 AM sensille: yeah, a 1 or 2mm but on 100x100 it's a lot
04:35 AM gloops: it is
04:35 AM sensille: i have the impression it comes from cutting
04:35 AM gloops: its when theyre made, they sag
04:36 AM gloops: the mic plates are cast then machined flat, much better
04:36 AM sensille: so i have to mill them flat first?
04:36 AM gloops: but a bit more expensive
04:36 AM sensille: but that would cost me several mm
04:36 AM gloops: if they need to be flat yeah
04:37 AM sensille: so try to straighten them first, then mill
04:37 AM gloops: for my z plates i simply mounted the pair of plates with the bow facing the same way, ended up spot on, probably luck
04:38 AM gloops: if its a working surface or precision part they need flattening though
04:39 AM sensille: where does "precision" start?
04:40 AM gloops: in my garage - with 4lb hammer lol
04:40 AM sensille: :)
04:40 AM sensille: is <1mm already "precision"?
04:40 AM gloops: what are the plates for?
04:41 AM sensille: functional parts for a 3d printer
04:41 AM gloops: 1mm may as well be 1 mile in some situations
04:41 AM sensille: and one as a base plate for experimental setup. that needs to be flat
04:42 AM gloops: i dont know how the bow would affect the operation of your machine, not knowing the design etc
04:42 AM gloops: yes the base needs to be flat
04:42 AM gloops: gantry plates things like that, you can maybe adjust the error away
04:47 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aluminium-Mic-6-Tooling-Plate-1-2-x-2-5-x-26-5cm-Offcuts-CNC-Milling-Myford/232430187472?
04:47 AM gloops: thats the stuff you want
04:54 AM XXCoder: sensille: work materials always is bigger than part by fair mirgin
04:54 AM XXCoder: like 3 mm
04:54 AM XXCoder: all around
04:55 AM XXCoder: thats small parts. larger parts has even more
04:57 AM gloops: see you could maybe tighten the bow out if the plate is mounted on a frame...but then the frame has to be flat
05:03 AM sensille: XXCoder: that's quite a margin. good to know
05:04 AM sensille: gloops: i'll get a tooling plate for my experimentatation board
05:09 AM gloops: probably save you some messing about
05:18 AM gloops: something else to consider - if youre using aluminium extrusions for the frame, they too will be out, i found it very helpful when drilling to make slots or oversize holes, to allow a bit of adjustment, dont take it for granted that an extrusion frame will just be square and true - it wont
05:25 AM jthornton: morning
05:26 AM XXCoder: hey
05:35 AM XXCoder: jthornton: how goes your vismach research
05:36 AM jthornton: I started reading vismach.py and found a few more bits of info and also found a hud example but have not got it to work yet
05:37 AM Jin|away is now known as Jin^eLD
05:39 AM jthornton: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/lib/python/vismach.py
05:39 AM sensille: gloops: in which way out? if i test them against each other they're flat, at least for the eye, testing in several directions
05:40 AM jthornton: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/configs/sim/tracking-test.hal
05:42 AM XXCoder: HUI to control machine outside linuxcnc?
05:43 AM XXCoder: so that poy file is "other end" to vismach
05:43 AM XXCoder: traverse ois known to me
05:43 AM XXCoder: not
05:44 AM XXCoder: wow theres capture command in it
05:44 AM XXCoder: but theres also apply draw traverse and unapply
05:44 AM jthornton: HUD is a Heads Up Display that should show up on the tk window
05:44 AM XXCoder: wow nice
05:45 AM XXCoder: "volume" why
05:45 AM XXCoder: not sure whats use of that
05:45 AM XXCoder: one of possible uses actually is checking if machine is self intecting
05:46 AM XXCoder: HALtranslate and rotate also has applu and unapply. wonder what those does. maybe its for linuxcnc side
05:46 AM XXCoder: wow! can have multi-viewpoints
05:46 AM jthornton: yea I don't understand all I don't know yet lol
05:47 AM XXCoder: I wonder if we can define a viewpoint at near spindle for "close up"
05:47 AM XXCoder: I bet that can be commanded by HUI
05:47 AM XXCoder: change to overall, close up, etc
05:48 AM XXCoder: is arc example existant in docs? I think there was but not sure
05:49 AM XXCoder: Hud(object)
05:49 AM XXCoder: we can change lights maybe
05:50 AM XXCoder: if we add pin we could add redraw also, to clear the current tooltip drawn stuff maybe>?
05:50 AM jthornton: let me know if you figure something out :)
05:51 AM XXCoder: so we have this
05:51 AM jthornton: I have to solve a chicken code problem this morning the lights did not add 5 more minutes today for some reason
05:54 AM XXCoder: out of known group we have few unknowns like Track, coordsbase, invert (matrix for transformation invert)
05:54 AM XXCoder: there also class O looks like lighting stuff
05:54 AM XXCoder: also for redraw maybe that causes refresh oif tk window, removing drawn lines
05:56 AM XXCoder: hal test is interesting
05:56 AM XXCoder: wonder if can capture keyboard input
05:58 AM gloops: sensille well you might have got a good batch, ive seen people have no end of problems with extrusion when they need precision fitting
05:59 AM sensille: ok, they're from misumi, with a crazy packaging overkill
06:00 AM XXCoder: jthornton: odd hope you find why
06:00 AM gloops: if your 4ft gantry has a 2mm bow youve got major problems - you cant cut a straight line lol
06:04 AM jthornton: just isolating that bit of code now to sort it out
06:05 AM XXCoder: sigh read something that made me feel sick because it could happen to me
06:05 AM XXCoder: police stopped a van, went out, talked and apparently shouted few times to show hands, opened door and took driver out and very seriously beat him
06:06 AM XXCoder: he was trying to tell police that hes deaf
06:06 AM sensille: next you need a sign on the window :(
06:06 AM XXCoder: sadly not first time, but in least this guy lives this time. theres couple of police murder of deaf people
06:06 AM XXCoder: sensille: thats the thing. why?
06:06 AM sensille: because U.S.?
06:07 AM XXCoder: because he had sign
06:07 AM XXCoder: still hes beaten and hospitalized
06:08 AM XXCoder: large percent of police shootings at stops is deaf unfortunately
06:08 AM XXCoder: so could happejn to me
06:08 AM XXCoder: worse one there was deaf driver and his son
06:08 AM sensille: how can the public tolerate the US police?
06:08 AM XXCoder: son was hearing so he told police that driver is deaf, blam blam
06:09 AM XXCoder: police didnt listen to driver son, which is also adult
06:09 AM XXCoder: previous one I talked about hes 64 years old. not exactly a threat to [police
06:11 AM XXCoder: sensille: really it depends on where and training
06:11 AM XXCoder: washington west end seems good on this
07:43 AM gloops: 12 tct cutters for 7.99 i dont know how they do it
07:44 AM gregcnc: stuff that doesn't pass QC
07:45 AM gloops: well, looks ok to me, i had a quick look through magnifying glass blades look sharp
08:41 AM Getty: XXCoder: I decided for the OptiPlex with the many PCIe, but not because of that, because i found out that there exist something like PCIe extension box :D
08:46 AM weenerdog: good mawnin
09:09 AM treats: Hi all, new to cnc so my assumptions may be a bit off-base. I'm looking to cnc hardwood. I'm trying to find a bit without any luck. Could someone either point me toward a bit or inform me why I'm not thinking correctly?
09:10 AM treats: 1/8" or smaller diameter, 1" or more depth, no taper. Up or down is a-okay.
09:12 AM sync: 8x the diameter is not easy
09:12 AM sync: you can clearance a bit at the shank tho
09:15 AM treats: So look for a shank less than 1/8"?
09:16 AM sync: no
09:17 AM treats: I understand the 8x comment, but not the clearance comment.
09:21 AM sync: well, you still have 1/8 where you clamp it bit in between it is a weee bit thinner
09:21 AM sync: so it does not rub
09:22 AM sync: when you go past the cutting edges
09:23 AM gregcnc: necked
09:26 AM gregcnc: maybe http://www.harveytool.com/ToolTechInfo.aspx?ToolNumber=60308
09:27 AM Rab: treats, "real" industrial tooling with that much stickout might be a little exotic and pricey. But I can tell you that Rotozip make very long up- and down-cut bits, some of which are 1/8" dia: https://www.rotozip.com/en_US/tool-subcategory/-/rotozip-search-tools/1/accessories
09:27 AM Rab: Those bits are HSS IIRC, so they're quite flexible...prob need a low feed rate.
09:27 AM gregcnc: those were the first to come to mind, but HSS that long...
09:29 AM gregcnc: I probably did cut some MDF with those as first cuts in my CNC in 2004 or so.
09:31 AM Rab: I used them to bootstrap a Rotozip mount in plastic: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/rabbot/image/holdercut1.jpg
09:32 AM Rab: Unfortunately the only tool I had was downcut, and even with a relief channel underneath the cut packed full of chips. It was pretty bad. But successful! http://reboots.g-cipher.net/rabbot/image/holdercut2.jpg
09:34 AM Rab: McMaster-Carr option, cheaper than some: https://www.mcmaster.com/8876a48
09:35 AM Rab: 1/8" is the smallest they have in 1" length of cut.
09:51 AM treats: Nice find Rab
09:55 AM treats: Also, being new, both of those bit sources are helpful. I was relying on Amazon and Toolstoday.
09:55 AM ziper: i've been looking for something similar too
09:55 AM ziper: but for foam cutting
09:55 AM treats: toolstoday has bits that match my needs for foam.
09:55 AM treats: FYI
10:00 AM Rab: This might be appropriate for hardwood, 1.5" length of cut: https://www.ebay.com/itm/382429557631
10:00 AM treats: And the price is nice too... Might grab one now
10:00 AM Rab: That eBay seller (drillman1/Carbide Plus) is legit. Quality products and fast service. https://www.ebay.com/str/carbideplus
10:00 AM Rab: I recommend scanning through his listings. I didn't see 1/8" x 1" at a glance, but that might be cheaper and more robust.
10:02 AM Rab: I don't know the applicability of 3-flute high-helix for hardwood, but it seems like it would be a good match.
10:02 AM Rab: And stronger than 2-flute.
10:02 AM gloops: i use the chino 3.175mm spirals on oak, theyre sound
10:03 AM Rab: Be aware that long 1/8" carbide like that will be very prone to breaking.
10:05 AM gloops: cant remember seeing them with 25mm cut, i think mine are 22mm
10:06 AM treats: Thanks for the tips guys. Big help.
10:07 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pc-3-175X22mm-Down-Cut-Cutter-Left-handed-1-Flute-End-Mill-Carbide-Cutting-Tool-/322167089410?
10:14 AM Tom_L: jthornton, feel free to fix my java issue when you finish
10:15 AM Tom_L: importing a .csv file to it with a few 'special' characters screws it all up
10:15 AM Tom_L: like ' " \ etc
10:19 AM weenerdog: can you just toss the special chars or do you need them imported?
10:19 AM Tom_L: they're part of the data set
10:19 AM Tom_L: i'm going to remove them to test but they need to be there
10:21 AM weenerdog: when you write them are you concatenating strings? and are you using escape chars?
10:22 AM Tom_L: no esc characters yet
10:22 AM weenerdog: like... read a char, see if its a comma yet, write a char?
10:23 AM Tom_L: the import code doesn't do that yet but that's what i'm getting ready to fix
10:23 AM Tom_L: i just don't know java or what format it wants on those cases yet
10:23 AM Tom_L: the export code is c / pascal
10:24 AM weenerdog: it wants you to refer to them as escape characters. like " is \", \ is \\, ' is \'
10:24 AM Tom_L: i'm sure i can fix it, it's just a pain in the ass
10:24 AM weenerdog: nah not bad
10:24 AM Tom_L: so the next char after the \ is the one you want
10:25 AM weenerdog: yes
10:25 AM Tom_L: what are all the special characters affected? ' " \ and what else?
10:25 AM weenerdog: it says, for example, i really want to stick a double quote here, not end the string
10:25 AM Tom_L: i don't think the data has anything else but maybe those
10:25 AM weenerdog: https://www.javatpoint.com/escape-sequence-in-c
10:25 AM Tom_L: that's easy enough to fix
10:26 AM weenerdog: thats a list of them
10:26 AM weenerdog: should just be backslash, single quote, double quote, question mark in your case
10:27 AM Tom_L: so really all i need to do when i encounter one is to add the \ ahead of it in the string
10:27 AM weenerdog: si senor
10:27 AM Tom_L: fscking java....
10:28 AM weenerdog: hehehe
10:29 AM Tom_L: it seems to accept the crlf ok
10:29 AM Tom_L: chr 13 chr 10
10:29 AM weenerdog: i dunno i'd have to read the code
10:30 AM Tom_L: well those import ok far as i can see
10:31 AM weenerdog: just hammer in code to check for ' " \ and ?, replace with \' \" \\ and \? respectively and see if it boogies
10:32 AM Tom_L: i plan to
10:32 AM jthornton: Tom_L: java lol
10:33 AM Tom_L: probably worse than brainfuck
10:33 AM weenerdog: it aint the kitchen... its the cook :)
10:33 AM Tom_L: https://esolangs.org/wiki/brainfuck
10:33 AM Tom_L: try that sometime
10:35 AM weenerdog: forth, man. cant go wrong with forth.
10:35 AM weenerdog: >coff<
10:35 AM Tom_L: i can cook just need to know the recipe
10:35 AM Tom_L: and now i do
10:38 AM treats: Another question. I'm going to need a new collet and I know this will work: https://vicious1-com.myshopify.com/products/1-8-collet-for-dewalt-dwp611
10:39 AM treats: But I'm wondering if I can get away without the housing and get this: https://www.amazon.com/Dewalt-Replacement-COLLET-389243-00-DW660/dp/B009L32RKS
10:40 AM gregcnc: the collet must match the tool it's going into. Those don't look like the same part
10:41 AM treats: Yeah, I'm reading the comments on the page I linked too *facepalm*
10:41 AM weenerdog: i tink its the same collet, the 2nd one just doesn't have the nut
10:42 AM gregcnc: it's not the same. which router?
10:42 AM weenerdog: ah you us right
10:48 AM gloops: pff $20 for one
10:51 AM gloops: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ER11-ER16-ER20-Precision-Spring-Collet-Set-CNC-Milling-Lathe-Tool-Workholding-UK-/272683360383?
10:51 AM gloops: these work like a dream
10:53 AM gregcnc: how many hand routers take ER collets?
10:57 AM gloops: a hand router i thought it was a spindle going by the first photo
10:59 AM gregcnc: the link says dewalt dwp611 https://goo.gl/4TkSaE
11:01 AM gloops: well im sure there will be standard collets to fit, there are better deals around than dewalt sell them for, i wouldnt buy anything dewalt anyway
11:01 AM gregcnc: that doesn't help find a collet to buy
11:10 AM Rab: That 1/8" collet looks legit to me.
11:26 AM JT-Shop: Tom_L: what are you up to?
11:38 AM dasbrow: Hi Everyone, I can't figure out how to adjust my TPI for my z axis. I used JT's 7i96 python configuration tool to generate the files. X and Y are fine, they have a TPI of 8, the Z has a tpi of 10. Thanks.
11:38 AM JT-Shop: really you used my 7i96 configuration tool?
11:39 AM dasbrow: yes, why is that a bad idea or are you just yanking me?
11:40 AM JT-Shop: no, this is the first time I've seen anyone that used it
11:40 AM JT-Shop: let me catch up to you
11:40 AM dasbrow: well I am a noob when it comes to setting up these things so I figured use a tool lol
11:40 AM JT-Shop: that's what it is for
11:41 AM JT-Shop: let me see if it is on this PC or not... I may have to set it up to see
11:45 AM * fragalot is wondering if he's better off with a high quality standard boring head, or a vertex universal
11:45 AM JT-Shop: dasbrow: I'll go down to the beer cave PC where I have it installed
11:46 AM dasbrow: ok thanks
11:52 AM JT-Shop: dasbrow: looks like the spindle page is missing the scale entry
11:52 AM JT-Shop: opps nevermind you said Z
11:53 AM JT-Shop: the Scale setting for each axis is the number of pulses per user unit if that makes sense
11:59 AM dasbrow: yes, I think I figured it out, I was setting scale = 4000 for all XY (10tpi) and was going up for Z, my Z is actually 8tpi. I am closer at SCALE = 3200. I may have this part.
12:00 PM JT-Shop: that sounds like 200 pulse/rev * 2 micro step * 8 TPI
12:03 PM dasbrow: Ha I was wrong again, it's 6tpi. Sad as I had this all set up when I was using a cheap bob. Thanks.
12:04 PM JT-Shop: hey I'm glad to hear someone used the configuration tool... makes me want to add more to it now
12:16 PM dasbrow: JT-Shop: a few things, I need to hack it to allow SERVO_PERIOD = 500000 (it would not allow me to go over 100000), MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION, should be allowed to be floating point numbers. Unless I have set up things wrong. On my Z I need both to be 0.2 or the stepper stalls out.
12:16 PM dasbrow: *needed
12:16 PM gregcnc: eck 500,000 won't run though
12:16 PM dasbrow: runs fine on my machine, don't ask me why :/
12:18 PM dasbrow: gregcnc: will I run into issue when I start making chips?
12:18 PM gregcnc: oh well mesa can deal with it, but still surprising
12:26 PM JT-Shop: dasbrow: thanks for the feedback
12:30 PM JT-Shop: dasbrow: did you discover the F1 help context for each tab?
12:30 PM dasbrow: No, probably should look at that.
12:32 PM JT-Shop: probably not a great deal of help but looks like I need to add something saying it's there
12:33 PM dasbrow: You've done a good job, as I said I am a noob, and have limited time. I am rushing to get this mill done so I can use it. Thanks for all your help.
12:34 PM JT-Shop: your just the person I wrote that for someone new to LinuxCNC and Mesa
12:35 PM JT-Shop: if you have anymore feedback feel free to holler at me here or in the beer cave i'm jthornton
12:36 PM dasbrow: Will for sure.
01:04 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, just parsing some data
01:05 PM Tom_L: java doesn't like it
01:06 PM JT-Shop: why use java?
01:07 PM fragalot: at least you don't have to do it in C on a controller with only 16K of RAM.
01:07 PM Tom_L: it's a damn phone app i import data to
01:07 PM Tom_L: i didn't write it
01:09 PM Tom_L: so i'm writing a funciton to add the esc codes to the ones it burps on
01:09 PM JT-Shop: ah
01:10 PM Tom_L: it writes a .cvs file and excel will import it fine but the phone app misses a good percent of the data on import
01:10 PM Tom_L: *csv
01:12 PM fragalot: probably messes up on numbers
01:12 PM fragalot: , vs . etc
01:12 PM Tom_L: i think it's mostly doube and single quotes
01:12 PM Tom_L: *double
01:14 PM fragalot: fun stuff
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: if someone in the USA says they need xML or something do they mean mL (mililiters) or M=1,000 Liters?
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: or/of
01:16 PM Rab: Almost certainly milliliters.
01:17 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:19 PM cradek: with six orders of magnitude between the two answers, you can probably use context to answer your question
01:19 PM cradek: (I don't think anyone really uses M that way today)
01:19 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: weeb. ML == MEGA liters.. 1000000 liters.
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, context doesn't help and yeah they could mean M = Mega
01:19 PM fragalot: as someone who's had to kindly ask the purchasing department if they meant to order 1000 rolls of cable, rather than 1000m of cable
01:19 PM fragalot: ask.
01:19 PM fragalot: :P
01:19 PM fragalot: because when that first truck arrives, starts unloading, and says "sorry the other ones are stuck in traffic"
01:19 PM fragalot: you know something isn't right
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: what frightening here is that this is a request from a medical science co
01:22 PM fragalot: so they've cracked 3D printing livers and are starting to scale production
01:22 PM * fragalot heavily invests in the stock market
01:22 PM cradek: I promise you nobody, even in the US, would write ML to mean 1000 litres
01:23 PM cradek: not since 1950 anyway
01:24 PM fragalot: cradek: not ever
01:24 PM fragalot: ML is not 1000, even if used correctly
01:24 PM cradek: and I really suspect you can tell from context whether they mean mL or ML
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: I come across it from time to time, I'll know in a few minutes
01:25 PM cradek: fragalot: it has been used that way a lot in the US, I've seen it on many (old) schematics
01:25 PM cradek: M for micro, MM for pico, and M for kilo (srsly)
01:26 PM cradek: but again you can just use the context to figure it out
01:29 PM gloops: they were printing plastic face inserts on tv earlier, for people with injuries or deformities, fairly straightforward process all done on site in hospital, scanning head, designing new parts, printing, cost per part £10 - no need to contract the making out
01:29 PM gloops: this cost tens of thousands before
01:29 PM cradek: fragalot: I found a schematic showing it in two tries: http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/zenith/7g605/
01:29 PM cradek: notice MFD, MMFD capacitors, 330M OHM resistors
01:30 PM cradek: hahaha also 9 MC frequency
01:30 PM CaptHindsight: heh they meant mL
01:30 PM fragalot: cradek: :'(
01:30 PM cradek: so in one table M is micro, kilo, mega
01:31 PM Rab: cradek, none of those examples are 1000.
01:31 PM cradek: yes the resistors are
01:31 PM cradek: R1 330M OHM is 330k
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: so apparently someone was selling something that cost few $/L for $1,000's
01:32 PM Rab: OK, on second thought, 330 megaohm resistor seems unlikely.
01:32 PM cradek: see! context!
01:32 PM cradek: :-)
01:33 PM cradek: fwiw this one is 1941
01:34 PM Rab: It helps that they spell out "megohm" for those cases.
01:35 PM cradek: yes it would be madness otherwise hahahaha
01:35 PM cradek: this is confusing let's pick one of the four to spell out! but ... only when it's a resistance and not a frequency
01:36 PM Rab: Other noteworthy cases: "1000 OHM" "1 MEGOHM"
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: https://goo.gl/maps/t8KhBcpmwCt heh, that location today
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: Zenith
01:37 PM cradek: sometimes you encounter lowercase omega for ohms too, but rarely
01:41 PM Rab: That's a pretty good sized building.
01:42 PM Rab: Probably full of all kinds of nice things. Backs up to an elementary school. :P
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: Zenith was a giant co until the early 80's
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: they radio then TV then computers
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: they started in radio
01:45 PM Rab: Even had a Soviet knockoff, ИADIR.
01:48 PM gregcnc: Ml is not a valid unit?
01:49 PM jdh: anyone use form thread/roll taps? do they need different size drill holes?
01:50 PM fragalot: they do
01:50 PM fragalot: depends on the material too
01:50 PM cradek: yes form taps need their own starting hole sizes
01:50 PM cradek: it's critical and sometimes you might even want to ream the start hole
01:51 PM jdh: Any better or worse for rigid tapping? I assume the threads are better.
01:54 PM fragalot: never used them rigid personally, but I don't see why they'd be worse if your hole is the right size
01:55 PM gregcnc: you have to run them slower, that's all
01:55 PM * Loetmichel noticed today that a CNC 6040 isnt really rigid enough to do a 6mm ball end mill 5.8mm deep in aluminium... even if one does rough down the slot beforehand in 4 steps with a 3mm end mill... MAAAN was that thing chattering (no problem though, just have to put a bit more heat conductive goo around the heatpipes those slots is for than planned)
01:56 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: lol
01:56 PM fragalot: get yourself a schaublin. I don't think anyone ever told that machine the concept of "chatter"
01:57 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: i doubt my hobby room floor will stay in place... its only rated for half a ton per square meter.
01:57 PM Loetmichel: (and there is a cellar underneath)
01:57 PM Loetmichel: apart from that i have no room for one
01:57 PM fragalot: it's only 800kg.. leave it on the pallet :Pµ
01:58 PM * fragalot doesn't have the room either >.<
01:58 PM fragalot: it takes up a quarter of my shed, lol
01:58 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: i like machines i can grab and carry away if needed
01:58 PM Loetmichel: like the D40 lathe i have
01:58 PM Loetmichel: or said CNC 6040
01:58 PM gregcnc: for the madmax times?
01:59 PM Loetmichel: D480
01:59 PM fragalot: yea.. I can't move that thing on my own
01:59 PM fragalot: the 250x550 lathe and RF45 I could carry out alone
01:59 PM Loetmichel: the lathe has only 70kg and the CNC 6040 is about 40kg with all peripherials
01:59 PM Loetmichel: ;)
02:00 PM Loetmichel: the D480 is 480mm between centers
02:00 PM Loetmichel: it was very funny when i got it (used)
02:00 PM fragalot: minimum useful size, imho :-)
02:00 PM Loetmichel: the seller was a mountain. 1 head bigger than me and a good bit more wide
02:01 PM fragalot: I wouldn't mind a beefy larger swing lathe, but they don't come in "stub length"
02:01 PM Loetmichel: he said: how do you get that thing out of the cellar?
02:01 PM gloops: i have put wheels on a bandsaw and table saw
02:01 PM Loetmichel: $me "if you open the doors for me: Like this"... grabbed it and carried it out the cellar...
02:01 PM Loetmichel: he couldnt believe it...
02:02 PM gloops: theres one drawback with that Loetmichel - if you can carry it away, so can a burglar
02:02 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: that's how I got the 250x550 up to the attic :-) (all 125kg of it)
02:03 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11462&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- that little thing there
02:03 PM fragalot: but truth be told.. had it been 1 step further.. I wouldn't have made it
02:03 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: i know that feeling ;)
02:03 PM Loetmichel: i hope you used some straps or a hand truck though
02:04 PM fragalot: cheat! you took the slide off :D
02:04 PM Loetmichel: that 70kg lathe was about the max i could carry
02:04 PM fragalot: I had a safety line on it but couldn't keep tension on it
02:04 PM fragalot: so still had to lift the damn thing
02:04 PM Loetmichel: in my arms without leverage
02:04 PM Loetmichel: nope, that came off afterwards, the motor was/is bad
02:04 PM Loetmichel: thats why i got it cheap
02:05 PM fragalot: the capacitor on mine blew about 3 months after I got it
02:05 PM fragalot: replaced the motor with a siemens & VFD.. best upgrade ever.
02:10 PM Loetmichel: same
02:11 PM Loetmichel: just not a siemens buit a local manufacturer
02:11 PM Loetmichel: but mine had a bad motor winding
02:12 PM Loetmichel: and those dirt cheap "washing machine motors" (single phase with start cap) are garbage anyways
02:33 PM andypugh: There are some fun motors on the direct-drive washing machines.
02:40 PM gloops: a washing machine motor does some work when you think about it, probably similar weight to a small cement mixer? at much higher revs
03:10 PM Loetmichel: gloops: yes
03:10 PM Loetmichel: but i meant the cheap things like on the $50 drill presses from harbor freight
03:10 PM Loetmichel: not VFD-Driven brushless multispeed direct drive motors ;)
03:11 PM Loetmichel: andypugh too
03:56 PM Deejay: gn8
04:25 PM weenerdog: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7839028/worlds-biggest-cow-australia-6ft-4-tall/
04:25 PM weenerdog: a cowasaurus
04:37 PM syyl: oh my :o
04:37 PM syyl: wtf
04:38 PM sync: an absolute unit
04:41 PM rmu: 1400 lbs = 450 steaks + 370 kg
04:57 PM hazzy-m: test
04:58 PM sync: failed
04:59 PM hazzy-m: as usual
04:59 PM hazzy-m: :)
05:00 PM Tom_L: java sucks
05:00 PM hazzy-m: LOL: “gcode has all the user interface delight of assembly with the readability of hexadecimal” - AvE
05:00 PM Tom_L: but i got the parser working and all records import now
05:01 PM hazzy-m: Tom_L: What are you working on?
05:02 PM Tom_L: i was importing a .csv file to a phone app but it wasn't getting all the records
05:02 PM weenerdog: that straighten you out, Tom_L ?
05:02 PM Tom_L: it's written in java
05:02 PM Tom_L: yes
05:02 PM Tom_L: so i had to massage the data a little
05:03 PM hazzy-m: ah
05:04 PM Tom_L: but i didn't know it was a java app so i couldn't figure out where the data was going at first
05:05 PM weenerdog: nearly everything on android is written in java
05:09 PM Tom_L: i filtered a few char but i just verified the only one really messin with it was the "
05:33 PM ChunkyPuffs: gonna try to cut some metal soon
05:33 PM ChunkyPuffs: hopefully you can help me, brb
05:34 PM * jthornton either needs to redo the 7i96 configuration tool with a setup.py or figure out how to write a submakefile and add it to LinuxCNC...
05:40 PM Tom_L: jthornton, what's wrong with it?
05:41 PM weenerdog: is the 7i96 a winning board for my build?
05:41 PM jthornton: the submakefile? I don't have one and I'm not sure my directory structure is right
05:41 PM jthornton: weenerdog: what is your build?
05:41 PM Tom_L: oh, the other part works though?
05:41 PM weenerdog: 48"x48" router
05:41 PM jthornton: yea the configuration tool works I just need to figure out how to add it to master
05:42 PM jthornton: weenerdog: not enough information
05:42 PM weenerdog: 3 axis
05:42 PM weenerdog: thats really all the info i have lol
05:43 PM jthornton: stepper, servo, hydraulic actuator, gorilla powered?
05:43 PM weenerdog: either really well trained hamsters on wheels or steppers. cant decide
05:44 PM jthornton: hamsters I'll let you borrow my cat for steppers the 7i96 is great
05:44 PM weenerdog: sweet. good cat?
05:44 PM jthornton: yep a lap cat
05:45 PM weenerdog: my cat got killed by a bear in the spring :(
05:45 PM weenerdog: he was a lap cat inside, killing machine outside. big yellow one.
05:45 PM jthornton: I'm so glad black bear is rare around here
05:46 PM weenerdog: they're like rats here
05:46 PM weenerdog: first time its down in the teens this year i think. 18 and dropping
05:48 PM ChunkyPuffs: anybody got a feeds n speeds calculator that's relevant for a noobie/
05:48 PM ChunkyPuffs: trying to cut aluminium with a 2 flute
05:48 PM Tom_L: start with a .001" chip load
05:48 PM Tom_L: on that machine
05:48 PM roycroft: The Internet(tm) has all that stuff
05:53 PM ChunkyPuffs: I don't know what a .001 chip load means Tom_L
05:53 PM ChunkyPuffs: I'm using fusion 360
05:53 PM ChunkyPuffs: I'm using Kinetic NC
05:54 PM ChunkyPuffs: I am not using LinuxCNC, so it' a problem in language, I eventually want to, but I can't right now
05:55 PM Tom_L: i explained that to you the other day
05:55 PM Tom_L: The chip load is a measurement of the thickness of material removed by each cutting edge during a cut. This is a valuable piece of information that can then be used to calculate new set ups. Calculation are as follows: Chip Load = Feed Rate (inches per minute) / (RPM x number of flutes).
05:56 PM Tom_L: so i suggested you start with a .001" chip load
05:57 PM Tom_L: or .025 mm
05:58 PM ChunkyPuffs: yes Tom_L, I have no idea how to actually set or make thi shappen
05:58 PM ChunkyPuffs: I know what it is in theory, but not how to adjust it
05:58 PM Tom_L: fusion should have a place to enter the chip load
05:59 PM Tom_L: then you enter the rpm and or the feed and it will calculate the other
05:59 PM ChunkyPuffs: Right, maybe
05:59 PM ChunkyPuffs: I will take a look
05:59 PM ChunkyPuffs: but as for a calculator, is there one?
05:59 PM Tom_L: so the calculator is built in fusion
05:59 PM Tom_L: there are hundreds of them
05:59 PM Tom_L: https://www.google.com/search?q=feedrate+calculator&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1
06:01 PM Tom_L: https://daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/Feed-Rate-Calculator.phtml
06:01 PM ChunkyPuffs: what is "surface speed" in this calc?
06:02 PM Tom_L: depending on the tool diameter it is the speed of the cutter at the blade
06:02 PM Tom_L: so at 1000 rpm the surface speed of a 1" cutter will be higher than a 1/4" cutter
06:02 PM ChunkyPuffs: 2mm 2 flute carbide bit
06:02 PM Tom_L: because it's further away from the center
06:03 PM Tom_L: generally that's a more important number on a lathe than a mill
06:08 PM ChunkyPuffs: right, none of this makes it easy for me to get cutting
06:08 PM ChunkyPuffs: there ought to be a calculator that makes this easy, instead of explaining the formulas to me.
06:09 PM ChunkyPuffs: I get the formulas, but really I want to get cutting.
06:09 PM ChunkyPuffs: I'm not afraid to break the bit
06:09 PM ChunkyPuffs: some manufacturers provide you with feeds n speeds out of the box, this doesn't have to be this hard.
06:11 PM weenerdog: theres loads of online speed & feed calculators, chunky
06:12 PM ChunkyPuffs: Right, but is it really as slow as they suggest
06:14 PM ChunkyPuffs: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/336568402447564811/517130559227691028/unknown.png
06:14 PM ChunkyPuffs: tell me what I have gotten wrong here
06:15 PM SpeedEvil: slow?
06:16 PM SpeedEvil: 2mm is a damn tiny endmill is the roblem
06:17 PM ChunkyPuffs: SpeedEvil, what I'm cutting is small, I don't get it
06:18 PM andypugh: What is slow?
06:18 PM ChunkyPuffs: well, my machine max is 30,000 rpm
06:18 PM SpeedEvil: 1m/min isn't very slow
06:18 PM ChunkyPuffs: but I don't want to cut at 30,000 rpm
06:18 PM ChunkyPuffs: I didn't set 1m/min
06:19 PM ChunkyPuffs: I don't understand what I'm supposed to be setting
06:19 PM SpeedEvil: the calculated result was that.
06:19 PM andypugh: 275m/min seems fast.
06:20 PM andypugh: But then I run slow typically.
06:20 PM ChunkyPuffs: I want to run safe for the bit
06:20 PM ChunkyPuffs: so I don't get it
06:20 PM ChunkyPuffs: I don't get how to calculate the cutting speed
06:21 PM andypugh: It’s based on the tool material and the workpiece material.
06:21 PM ChunkyPuffs: aluminium, carbide
06:21 PM ChunkyPuffs: I didn't set it, it was set for me automatically
06:22 PM ChunkyPuffs: how do I figure out a sane value
06:22 PM andypugh: So, 275 is probably about right.
06:22 PM andypugh: (Possibly low)
06:22 PM SpeedEvil: That is a sane value, pretty much. You could back off the chip load by half, and half the RPM
06:22 PM andypugh: But that’s as high as you can get with a 2mm tool and a 30,000 rpm spindle
06:22 PM ChunkyPuffs: I don't want to run the spindle at max
06:22 PM SpeedEvil: that would quarter your cut speed
06:22 PM ChunkyPuffs: I don't have the coolant for that
06:22 PM sync: you want to run it at full rip
06:23 PM sync: with such a small mill
06:23 PM SpeedEvil: but probably that
06:23 PM andypugh: I think that with a 2mm you _do_ want to run at max
06:23 PM SpeedEvil: Indeed.
06:23 PM ChunkyPuffs: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/336568402447564811/517132881739513907/unknown.png
06:23 PM ChunkyPuffs: You're not getting it, that isn't calculated
06:23 PM ChunkyPuffs: I'm asking how to figure out a sane value
06:23 PM ChunkyPuffs: that is a manually changed variable, and you're suggesting it's sane
06:23 PM ChunkyPuffs: if I change the rpm, that doesn't change, how do I find out a sane vlaue
06:23 PM ChunkyPuffs: value*
06:24 PM andypugh: What makes you think that these are not sane values?
06:24 PM ChunkyPuffs: because default does not equal safe
06:24 PM andypugh: You will note that for the same surface speed at 10,000 rom your feed rate is now much lower?
06:24 PM ChunkyPuffs: and halving the rpm, but cutting at the exact same fucking rate, doesn't see mright
06:24 PM andypugh: No, hang on, that’s not right
06:25 PM ChunkyPuffs: but the cutting rate is the same
06:25 PM ChunkyPuffs: wtf
06:25 PM andypugh: What happens if you put the machine max up to 100,0000
06:26 PM andypugh: 30,000 rpm with a 2mm cutter is 188 m/min
06:26 PM ChunkyPuffs: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/336568402447564811/517133700304207873/unknown.png
06:27 PM andypugh: There you are, it takes 43,000 rpm to reach your target surface speed
06:27 PM andypugh: So, anywhere below 43,000 the calculator is ust going to say “turn it up to 11”
06:28 PM andypugh: (it’s a pity that it doesn’t adjust-down the surface speed to make this more obvious)
06:28 PM ChunkyPuffs: dude, I don't get it
06:28 PM ChunkyPuffs: all I want to do is get a sane value for my cutting
06:28 PM ChunkyPuffs: I don't want to go fast
06:29 PM andypugh: all the values so far seem sane
06:29 PM andypugh: The point is that a 2mm cutter would ideally by used in a faster spindle
06:30 PM ChunkyPuffs: no coolant
06:30 PM ChunkyPuffs: remember that
06:30 PM ChunkyPuffs: I want to practice on aluminium and have compressed air, that's it
06:30 PM andypugh: But, if you don’t want to run at 30,000 then the suggested feed rate at 10,000 was 360mm/min. Though with a tiny 2mm end mill I probbaly would only go at half that
06:30 PM ChunkyPuffs: what do you mean probably
06:31 PM ChunkyPuffs: this is supposed to be a science
06:31 PM ChunkyPuffs: that's why I'm asking for a calculator ffs
06:31 PM sync: you don't need coolant to go fast
06:31 PM ChunkyPuffs: this isn't about estimates, that's why it's calculated
06:31 PM sync: it is about guesstimates
06:31 PM ChunkyPuffs: I'm asking for calculations, how to do it, etc, not vague feed and speed recommendations, ACTUAL facts about the material
06:31 PM ChunkyPuffs: it is **not** about guesstimates
06:31 PM sync: it is
06:31 PM ChunkyPuffs: and all you're doing is misleading me when you say this
06:31 PM ChunkyPuffs: That's not how it's done by any manufacturer
06:31 PM andypugh: Well, I have coolant, but only have a 1000 rpm spindle, so I am not really able to run 2mm tools anywhere near the right speeds.
06:32 PM sync: that is how it is done by the tool mfgs
06:32 PM ChunkyPuffs: You will continue to break bits your entire life if you say that sync
06:32 PM sync: look at the range of feeds and speeds they give you for each material
06:32 PM ChunkyPuffs: it's about tolerances, that's why your tol manufacturer will give you them when you buy their tools
06:32 PM ChunkyPuffs: if they're any good
06:32 PM ChunkyPuffs: Exacts, no range for guessing
06:32 PM ChunkyPuffs: you're misleading me, badly.
06:32 PM sync: so why do I twiddle my feed override knob on every job?
06:33 PM sync: to find where the part and machine is happy?
06:33 PM andypugh: This table says anywhere from 200 to 600 for high silicon aluminium. And that is assuming coolant.
06:33 PM andypugh: https://www.itc-ltd.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/milling_speeds_and_feeds.pdf
06:33 PM sync: when it is an exact science that I could have found out before?
06:34 PM ChunkyPuffs: sync, There's a mathematician who works for autodesk at my makerspace who suggests what you're doing is retarded
06:34 PM andypugh: But I am also thinking that the chip load in that calculator looks a bit big for a tiny cutter. I am not sure that it is considering tool forces, just surface speed and a generic chip load
06:34 PM ChunkyPuffs: And has spent the last hour convincing me of the science behind it
06:35 PM andypugh: So, get that bloke to tell you what feed and speed to use, rather than asking us for avice
06:35 PM ChunkyPuffs: but had to go, so here I am asking for advice and being told it's not a science
06:35 PM ChunkyPuffs: he had to go, and I'd prefer not to waste his time
06:35 PM ChunkyPuffs: but the blatant mislead is annoying
06:35 PM andypugh: So you are wasting our time instead?
06:35 PM sync: it's not a mislead, it is just the reality of it
06:35 PM andypugh: (By asking for advice, then telling us we are wrong)
06:36 PM ChunkyPuffs: It is not a matter of estimation
06:36 PM ChunkyPuffs: it is a matter of formula, and I'm just asking if there's a calc for the formula
06:36 PM andypugh: Ii is when you say “I don’t want to run that fast” and “I have no coolant”
06:36 PM ChunkyPuffs: and if you don't think it's a matter of formula, you're ignoring the manufacturers you're buying bits from, who sometimes give you the exact tolerances of the tool
06:37 PM MarcelineVQ: Did you ask your manufacturer?
06:37 PM sync: the tolerance of my tooling has nothing to do with the speeds i run it at
06:37 PM sync: but yes, ask your tool mfg
06:37 PM SpeedEvil: Tool manufacturers specify speeds and feeds for good machines in good conditions.
06:37 PM SpeedEvil: Tiny CNC routers aren't that, often.
07:05 PM methods_: is this still happening
07:16 PM CaptHindsight: situational awareness core: 2.2, congeniality score 1.7
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/p3DmvDJm3ww?t=11 comes to mind
07:20 PM methods_: i mean this stuff is easy just follow the formula
07:23 PM ChunkyPuffs: what formula?
07:24 PM ChunkyPuffs: show me the formula I need to figure out cutting
07:24 PM ChunkyPuffs: the chip ratio or whatever
07:24 PM methods_: https://www.kennametal.com/content/dam/kennametal/kennametal/common/Resources/Technical%20Tips/Machining%20Knowledge/TechTip_030_CuttingToolFormulas-1.pdf
07:29 PM methods_: https://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-us/knowledge/machining-formulas-definitions/pages/milling.aspx
07:39 PM jbar: Good reference thanks for the link methods.
07:41 PM methods_: np
07:41 PM methods_: sandvik has some very comprehensive material
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: hey same formulars here https://www.destinytool.com/speeds--feeds.html
07:41 PM methods_: they have a great machining book they put out
07:41 PM methods_: see if i can find it
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.harveyperformance.com/in-the-loupe/speeds-and-feeds-101/
07:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
07:43 PM methods_: https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Metal-Cutting-Practical-Handbook/dp/B000ARWOFM
07:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.cnccookbook.com/g-wizard-feeds-speeds-calculator-beginners-hobbyists/
07:45 PM CaptHindsight: this one ^^ has a guy with a headset ready to chat with you
07:50 PM infornography: I do need to chat with a guy in a headset
07:52 PM methods_: light coat of oil, check
07:52 PM methods_: umbrella check
07:52 PM methods_: headset, check
08:09 PM Tom_L: i'm convinced he's a troll
08:17 PM infornography: Who?
08:17 PM Tom_L: chunkypuffs
08:19 PM infornography: *reads*
08:23 PM infornography: I dunno, I know people that are just like that
08:58 PM CaptHindsight: yes, they are called trolls
10:19 PM ChunkyPuffs: cutting again on twitch
10:19 PM ChunkyPuffs: hopefully don't break my bit trying to cut deep with a 3mm bit
10:19 PM Tom_L: how deep?
10:19 PM ChunkyPuffs: Trying to cut through 20mm
10:19 PM ChunkyPuffs: 1mm passes
10:20 PM Tom_L: less than 3mm i hope
10:23 PM ChunkyPuffs: Tom_L, I'm streaming it again at https://twitch.tv/memetic_
10:23 PM ChunkyPuffs: I attempted to put some tabbed boxes in