#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 26 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:00 AM Getty: but i hate dog poo
12:03 AM XXCoder: delgate that task to someone else heh
12:03 AM XXCoder: as long as its not puppy mill
12:03 AM Getty: well, if i ever get a full office for the company, then we will include dog care in it, for sure
12:06 AM Getty: i think i found a good one
12:07 AM Getty: and it cost nearly like the T30... arghl 8-D
12:11 AM XXCoder: maybe you'll find better one
12:11 AM Getty: yeah i think i found it.... 3 PCIe next to the 1 PCIe x16
12:11 AM Getty: and just like 400 EUR, still i5, nice desktop case better for the lab
12:12 AM XXCoder: probably decent video card also
12:12 AM Getty: windows pro license on top, no home crap, but i anyway got 20 EUR windows license, long live german law
12:12 AM Getty: not really, but at 400 EUR i can actually add up 200 EUR for a 1060
12:12 AM Getty: but might be too extreme :D
12:12 AM XXCoder: if you want to use it for more than just linuxcnc probably worth it
12:13 AM XXCoder: linux cams tend to be not very good unfortunately so yopu'd need windows for cam part
12:13 AM Getty: well that is the idea, that its dual boot to also use it for gaming
12:13 AM Getty: so someone can go sit in the lab for gaming
12:13 AM Getty: cam?
12:13 AM Getty: what you mean? like webcam?
12:13 AM XXCoder: yeah computer aided machining
12:13 AM Getty: oh
12:13 AM XXCoder: cad is computer aided designing
12:13 AM Getty: AH
12:14 AM Getty: ok
12:14 AM XXCoder: so you use cam to make programs for cnc to run
12:14 AM MarcelineVQ: *manufacturing
12:14 AM MarcelineVQ: mind that a dedicated graphics card's point when it comes to a diy cnc machine is simply to prevent the integrated graphics of the cpu from having to do anything. no need to get fancy
12:14 AM XXCoder: though if you would use yours for just drill you probably could easuly hand code it
12:14 AM MarcelineVQ: And even then it's not strictly neccesary
12:14 AM Getty: but i COULD add a real gamer card
12:14 AM Getty: :D
12:15 AM XXCoder: MarcelineVQ: yeah thats why I recommanded good video card of any era, 10 year old one would fine as long as it never was cheapest card new
12:15 AM XXCoder: shitty video card specials sometimes use cpu to offload some of its shitty gpu tasks
12:16 AM XXCoder: my linuxcnc video card were pretty high end 14 years or so ago. works great for linuxcnc
12:16 AM Getty: i will also add up one of my 4-5 flight stick to it
12:16 AM Getty: then its a warthunder station
12:16 AM XXCoder: lol
12:17 AM MarcelineVQ: ehe, mine doesn't even have a card, runs a lathe just fine
12:21 AM Getty: ah i need to take care of slots
12:21 AM Getty: the thing has 3 PCIe but if the PCIe x16 would be 2 slots one of them would be not reachable
12:25 AM Getty: wow you cant get a decent gfx as 1 slot! :D
12:25 AM XXCoder: my current pc its one slot also, no reason to get 3 slot monstosity'
12:25 AM Getty: well i am thinking forward
12:25 AM Getty: more slots, more extension cards, more CNC
12:25 AM Getty: think mcfly, think
12:25 AM XXCoder: :P lol
12:25 AM Getty: meh i go to bed now, its freaking 7:21 here
12:25 AM Getty: cya tomorrow ;)
12:25 AM XXCoder: ;later
01:27 AM Deejay: moin
04:55 AM jthornton: morning
04:56 AM XXCoder: hey
05:15 AM rmu: jthornton: https://www.iotforall.com/building-cheap-automatic-chicken-coop-door-opener/
05:26 AM jthornton: not very instructional lol
05:26 AM jthornton: spend way too much time showing the resistor chart lol
05:30 AM Tom_L: morning
05:30 AM XXCoder: yo
05:30 AM Tom_L: 28°F Hi 42
05:31 AM Tom_L: not quite as windy
05:37 AM jthornton: pretty much the same temps here but windy still gusts up to 28 mph
05:37 AM XXCoder: 50s trending down during week here. rain very often
05:38 AM jthornton: rmu: I did get the touch screen, relay board and terminal block mounted to a base yesterday for the new chicken door :)
05:38 AM XXCoder: typical early winter (and all winter)
06:46 AM XXCoder: 4:44 am, 44f
06:46 AM XXCoder: yay
07:14 AM weenerdog: gooooooooood mawnin
07:22 AM jthornton: morning
07:23 AM jelly-home is now known as jelly
09:11 AM jesseg: Morning guys. Anyone used Kodiak brand cutting tools?
09:11 AM jesseg: My brother just discovered them on ebay last night and we were both surprised that the prices were as low as they were for USA made tools.
09:12 AM jesseg: or so they claim.
09:12 AM gregcnc: I have a few, I was happy with them
09:13 AM gregcnc: It costs a lot to feed reps an distributors
09:28 AM Roguish: jesseg: i've used a few Kodiak, pretty good value
09:29 AM Roguish: Amazon besides ebay.
09:45 AM jesseg: cool, thanks
01:46 PM beachbumpete1: Hey folks howsitgoin?
01:48 PM JT-Shop: hey Pete
02:05 PM beachbumpete1: Hey guys got a hardware question for the machinist and tooling gurus on here if you dont mind
02:06 PM beachbumpete1: we have a project we are working on where we have to drill a LOT of holes thru some 1 1/2 inch hardwood and into some stainless sheetmetal
02:06 PM gloops: ok
02:06 PM beachbumpete1: we are needing to machine a jig with hardened drill guides to facilitate drilling these thousands of holes
02:07 PM SpeedEvil: how precise?
02:07 PM gloops: why not cnc drilling
02:07 PM SpeedEvil: Also, drilling from stainless to wood side may be better in some cases
02:07 PM beachbumpete1: but the holes if we had our way would need to be drilled thru the wood and into the stainless to predrill for a screw
02:08 PM beachbumpete1: not terribly precise just as accurate as our jig locations will be
02:08 PM beachbumpete1: drilling from the opposite side is impossible
02:08 PM beachbumpete1: now the drill has to go thru the wood into the stainless as I said to predrill for a #12 screw
02:08 PM gloops: stainless can be a bitch for a small bit
02:09 PM SpeedEvil: That's what - 2mm?
02:09 PM beachbumpete1: AND at the same time preferrably countersink the hole in the wood to allow the screw to be installed and then a plug installed on top of the wood face afterwards
02:09 PM SpeedEvil: Wood may also blunten the drill and makes coolant problematic
02:09 PM gloops: and may burn
02:09 PM beachbumpete1: no coolant no cnc this is going to be jobsite work
02:10 PM SpeedEvil: why does the screw need to go into the sheetmetal?
02:10 PM beachbumpete1: I was HOPING there was a durable combined drill and countersink that would do this but it would need to have a long pilot length to allow the screw to be say a half inch into the wood
02:10 PM SpeedEvil: Is it to secure teh sheetmetal?
02:10 PM beachbumpete1: it is to secure the wood TO the sheetmetal
02:11 PM SpeedEvil: beachbumpete1: you can trivially attach countersinks
02:11 PM SpeedEvil: to bits.
02:11 PM beachbumpete1: yes of course but we need to try to make this a one and done
02:11 PM beachbumpete1: IE using the hardened drill guides to locate, drill, and countersink all in one shot
02:11 PM gloops: make the jig with a wider bore to the depth you want to sink
02:11 PM gloops: follow on with bigger bit
02:11 PM SpeedEvil: You're not going to do that and are very certainly going to need to replace the bits with likely a lifetime of only several tens of holes for the bits maximum
02:12 PM JT-Shop: Pete the biggest mistake made drilling stainless is too fast RPM's and too light pressure when hand drilling
02:12 PM beachbumpete1: that is kinda what I figured you would say
02:12 PM beachbumpete1: yes work hardening is killer
02:12 PM gloops: yes JT
02:12 PM MarcelineVQ: how thick is this sheet metal?
02:12 PM gloops: you might be as well blasting a self tapping screw through with impact driver
02:12 PM beachbumpete1: we are already doing something similar on this job and it is burning thru bits
02:12 PM SpeedEvil: Indeed.
02:13 PM SpeedEvil: This sounds like it's the wrong approach
02:13 PM beachbumpete1: That may be we are trying to give the installer guys the best option. nothing is set in stone yet but we are working on the jig design
02:13 PM SpeedEvil: Various sorts of rivets or other fixings, or glue even might be another option
02:13 PM beachbumpete1: cannot be rivets or glue must be stainless steel screws
02:13 PM gloops: hilti nails
02:14 PM SpeedEvil: Why do you have stainless on the other side if it's not cosmetic?
02:14 PM beachbumpete1: the stainless is a channel to keep the wood off the side of the house and allow air to get to both sides so the wood does not tend to warp so badly
02:15 PM SpeedEvil: ah
02:15 PM beachbumpete1: its kind of a crazy design but that is typical of these Palm Beach homes LOL
02:15 PM beachbumpete1: It should look beautiful once it is done.
02:16 PM beachbumpete1: just trying to figure out HOW to make it easiest for the installers.
02:16 PM beachbumpete1: I initially recommended using TWO different size hardened inserts one to predrill the hole and one to countersink
02:16 PM beachbumpete1: that got poopooed
02:16 PM beachbumpete1: they said it would take too long
02:16 PM gloops: it will take days
02:17 PM beachbumpete1: I still think it is a better option considering the stainless issues
02:17 PM Rab: beachbumpete1, something like this? The drill is replaceable, so you could substitute a longer one for the full 1.5" depth. https://www.mcmaster.com/2869A34
02:17 PM beachbumpete1: most combined drill and countersinks have short pilot lengths we need it to be like an inch or so
02:18 PM Rab: Oh, sorry, that's not what you need...works on preexisting countersink.
02:18 PM beachbumpete1: if those had longer travel that would work against the insert face but those are generally for locating holes in door hinges and predrilling for the screws
02:19 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/en/products/m8-x-50-blind-bolt-stainless-steel-a4-9-24mm-grip-range-bb0850a4asm - for example - this would need a slightly larger hole.
02:19 PM SpeedEvil: Are these needed to be removable?
02:20 PM beachbumpete1: I was thinking of using two hardened inserts one that fit inside the other so you just install the smaller one inside the bigger one and drill the pilot then remove and drill the countersink
02:20 PM SpeedEvil: you can just screw countersinks onto drillbits
02:20 PM beachbumpete1: no hopefully the screws will never be removed they will be getting wood plugs over top of them
02:20 PM Rab: beachbumpete1, so you're looking for a longer version of this? http://www.precorp.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/AERO_CarbideComboDrill2.jpg
02:21 PM beachbumpete1: Rab yes essentially and one that allowed reasonable travel thru a 3/4 inch deep hardened insert to drill thru the 1 1/2" thick wood and into the stainless
02:21 PM beachbumpete1: I have looked quite a bit and not found anything that does not have a short pilot length
02:21 PM Rab: So can you just put a longer drill in this? https://www.woodking.com/countersink%20drill%20bits%20-10.htm
02:23 PM SpeedEvil: What diameter are these holes?
02:23 PM beachbumpete1: it would seem so but with the max length of the hardened insert being 3/4 inch the drill bit would be outside of the insert before the fatter portion aligned it.
02:23 PM SpeedEvil: 1 1/2" drill length is quite a long drill for a small hole
02:23 PM Rab: Here's another modular one, maybe this is what SpeedEvil is referring to: https://www.grainger.com/product/EAZYPOWER-High-Speed-Steel-Combined-36JF95
02:24 PM beachbumpete1: we are thinking the hardened inserts/counterbore needs to be 1/2 inch and the drill would be small enough to allow a #12 stainless screw to get started without breaking
02:24 PM beachbumpete1: the more I think about it the more it is not gonna be possible
02:24 PM gloops: nail gun lol
02:24 PM fragalot: there's a difference between "not possible", and " a bad idea" :D
02:24 PM SpeedEvil: What thickness of stainless steel are you trying to drill into?
02:25 PM Rab: Thought about piercing instead of drilling.
02:25 PM gloops: whos going to faff about drilling all those holes
02:25 PM beachbumpete1: Its like 16 gauge
02:26 PM beachbumpete1: men with tool belts :)
02:27 PM beachbumpete1: and there is going to be a buttload of these holes
02:27 PM gloops: how is the jig going to be clamped to the wooden sheet?
02:27 PM beachbumpete1: literally thousands which is why we need to figure out the best way to do this
02:27 PM beachbumpete1: the jig is an aluminum sort of heavy duty tee square
02:27 PM gloops: and..why not staple the sheets on the wood before offering the wood up to the wall?
02:27 PM beachbumpete1: clamped to the wood face
02:28 PM beachbumpete1: its not sheets its more like U or hat shaped channel
02:28 PM methods_: how are they doing it now?
02:28 PM beachbumpete1: they have not started yet
02:28 PM methods_: oh i thought you said they were going thru bits
02:28 PM beachbumpete1: we are still machining the reclaimed cypress
02:28 PM methods_: oh lawd
02:28 PM methods_: sinker cypress
02:29 PM methods_: good luck with that job
02:29 PM beachbumpete1: well they are going thru bits because they had to drill some other holes in this channel
02:29 PM beachbumpete1: its not too bad really
02:29 PM methods_: until you make something from it lol
02:29 PM beachbumpete1: we are running some of it thru our six head moulder and some thru a custom modified twin spindle shaper setup
02:29 PM methods_: and it moves a half inch from morning to lunch
02:30 PM beachbumpete1: we have been storing it for almost two years now just for this project drying it
02:30 PM weenerdog: howdy
02:30 PM methods_: yeah we had the same thing
02:30 PM methods_: AC went out on the jobsite
02:30 PM methods_: and the whole room went whacko
02:31 PM methods_: joints busting
02:31 PM beachbumpete1: Oh hell no
02:31 PM methods_: yeah it was terrible
02:31 PM beachbumpete1: luckily this is all outdoors stuff
02:31 PM methods_: ah that should work better then
02:31 PM beachbumpete1: we have already machined a lot of soffit material for the home
02:31 PM beachbumpete1: its already installed for the most part
02:32 PM beachbumpete1: its a pretty big house
02:32 PM methods_: they don't want to come back with a second bit to punch thru the sheetmetal?
02:32 PM beachbumpete1: THEY don't know what to do LOL
02:32 PM beachbumpete1: I have to figure out the best way to do it
02:33 PM methods_: come back in with a 2nd carbide bit for the sheetmetal
02:33 PM methods_: and use the existing wood hole as the drillguide
02:33 PM SpeedEvil: If the sheetmetal U's could have a timber inside, it gets easy
02:33 PM methods_: a little tasty sandwich action
02:34 PM SpeedEvil: As you just drill all the way through with a 6mm or so bit, with a proper countersink on the end, and then run a long screw in to grab the wood
02:34 PM SpeedEvil: Well - easier
02:40 PM gloops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9EgunCwCaA
02:41 PM fragalot: https://github.com/dominictarr/event-stream/issues/116 <--- this whole issue is such a hilearious mess
02:41 PM SpeedEvil: gloops: not SS though
02:41 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8QbQNo07AI - are neat.
02:41 PM SpeedEvil: Thoguh not very applicable to this situation directly
02:43 PM gloops: you could hire a couple of appropriate nail guns for the job, beats drilling that amount of holes
02:45 PM beachbumpete1: my feeling is that despite the bit longer actual time using a smaller hardened insert INSIDE of the larger one would allow you to predrill the smaller hole thru the wood and into the stainless and then remove the insert and drill the counterbore hole with a stop collar on the drill....
02:45 PM beachbumpete1: nailing is not happening
02:46 PM fragalot: glue. :-)
02:47 PM beachbumpete1: I might even be able to machine a plate that holds the smaller inserts in position and tig weld them to the plate
02:48 PM Rab: gloops, that's all fun and games until it's time to get the nails out.
02:50 PM fragalot: Rab: or until the nails get themselves out
02:50 PM MarcelineVQ: which on wood that is prone to changing shape..
02:51 PM beachbumpete1: Thanks guys gotta go maybe pop in later. Have a good day.
02:51 PM fragalot: That said - they do make nailguns for steel I-beams so i'm sure it could work xD
02:51 PM SpeedEvil: The nails are not SS though
02:51 PM fragalot: pfft.
02:51 PM fragalot: fix that with some spray on zinc
02:52 PM fragalot: polish it up, noone will know better
02:52 PM SpeedEvil: Galvanised wood - it's the new thing!
02:52 PM fragalot: :D
02:52 PM * fragalot sprinkles some cast iron dust over SpeedEvil's wood stock
03:42 PM Deejay: gn8
03:49 PM gloops: the beachbumpete case showcases the problem with a lot of tradesmen these days
03:50 PM gloops: namely - sucking up to the customer
03:51 PM fragalot: at some point you've got to let the materials to the talking
03:51 PM fragalot: however, a good challenge is always nice
03:52 PM fragalot: friend of mine massaged 20x250mm steel strips into an oval spiral staircase going up with no additional supports "because that's what the customer wanted"
03:52 PM gloops: whoever put the idea in the customers head that he was getting thousands of screws plugged over and sanded down
03:53 PM gloops: well fragalot i suppose if the messing about is necessary then thats that, so long as charging is done accordingly
03:54 PM fragalot: indeed
03:56 PM fragalot: at least beachbumpete isn't required to do grain matching yet with those plugs :P
03:56 PM gloops: i think he does work for a place that does high end work actually, going by some of the drawings hes posted in the past
04:14 PM gloops: any cutting tonight ChunkyPuffs?
04:17 PM andypugh: Did I pimp my latest YuTube video here? I can’t remember.
04:17 PM andypugh: (Pewter tankard repair)
04:17 PM MarcelineVQ: last I saw wait tailstock
04:17 PM weenerdog: pimp it
04:17 PM MarcelineVQ: *was
04:18 PM andypugh: https://youtu.be/bSOyh4JrluI
04:18 PM weenerdog: man they gots cheap linear motion rail stuff on ebay. i think i'm gonna take a chance
04:21 PM gloops: weenerdog theyre fine if you use a 300kg gantry, it presses down and basically rides metal to metal
04:21 PM weenerdog: lol
04:23 PM weenerdog: i'll bacon grease 'em
04:24 PM gloops: tbh my cheapo sbr rails work fine
04:27 PM weenerdog: i cant imagine the sbr20 having too much play for woodwork
04:29 PM gloops: no, not for pro-sumer kind of machines
04:30 PM weenerdog: 2 pieces of 1500mm sbr12 with 4 bearing blocks for $73.10. prolly just go 1500 on both x & y
04:32 PM gloops: 16mm rail doesnt move at all, i dunno about 12mm, i cant see it
04:32 PM gloops: well - at all, i mean nothing that would affect wood stuff
04:34 PM weenerdog: i could splurge on 20. its 10 bucks more per pair.
04:34 PM gloops: id go with the 20 then
04:34 PM weenerdog: so 83 bux an axis
04:35 PM gloops: 2010 screws?
04:36 PM weenerdog: dunno aint there yet
04:36 PM weenerdog: didn't figure i'd build a 4'x4' rig first, but why not?
04:46 PM andypugh: Does Stefan Gotteswinter hang out here?
04:47 PM andypugh: (He uses LinuxCNC, and it just seem like more than coincidence the moments after posting my video link he appeared as a new subscriber)
04:47 PM gloops: not that i know of andypugh, well, not by any name i recognise
04:47 PM syyl: pure coincidence
04:47 PM syyl: (yeah, thats me)
04:49 PM andypugh: :-)
05:38 PM skunkworks: andypugh: how did you fix the cracks?
05:38 PM skunkworks: (spits)
05:40 PM skunkworks: (awesome work btw)
05:41 PM ChunkyPuffs: gloops, Nope, I'm at home hah
05:41 PM ChunkyPuffs: no cutting
05:41 PM ChunkyPuffs: Will be tomorrow
05:41 PM ChunkyPuffs: I went 48 hours and sleeped for 18 hrs
05:41 PM ChunkyPuffs: slept, even, bad english
06:33 PM andypugh: skunkworks: Low melting point solder (and a soldering iron rather than flame or air)
06:41 PM Getty: XXCoder: back up again? ;)
09:38 PM mutilator: hey all... anyone here have a build with a ballscrew off to the side rather than through the middle? does any significant binding or anything occur?
09:42 PM weenerdog: i've seen pics of builds like that
09:44 PM weenerdog: i've actually thought of doing my build with the rails under the table so the screw is level with them
09:48 PM SpeedEvil: mutilator: Well, it's gonna mean you have additional torque to deal with with any forces going through that axis, so you need everything to be rigid to them in ways that don't quite happen the same for not.
09:50 PM SpeedEvil: But fundamentally, you need to be designing all the stiffness to be adequate under all condition for the expected tooling forces, so ...
11:03 PM ve7it: anyone here have access to the ieee papers? (work or school?) https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7803873
11:21 PM MarcelineVQ: ve7it: http://sci-hub.tw/10.1109/MMS.2016.7803873
11:22 PM _unreal_: I finally got to coat my freaking mold I built. tomorrow I'll sand it and see if I can gell it one last final time or if its stil going to cause me pain
11:24 PM ve7it: MarcelineVQ, thank you very much... thats just what we needed
11:27 PM ve7it: interesting that ieee wants $31 for that 4 page paper