#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 22 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:32 AM Loetmichel: Lcvette: depends: is that a 720k or an 1.44MB drive?
12:36 AM Lcvette: 720k
12:36 AM Loetmichel: if the latter it should work with any "modern" drive
12:36 AM Loetmichel: ups. they are a bit hard to come by these days
12:36 AM Lcvette: yeah
12:36 AM Loetmichel: usually you can read 720k disks with an 1.44 mb drive, HD drives that write DD floppies tend to have problems though
12:36 AM Lcvette: i was wondering if some of the Teac drives i have seen with all the jumpers on them that are configurable might be compatible
12:36 AM Loetmichel: its not a config problem
12:36 AM Loetmichel: the heads are different and use different writing currents
12:38 AM Lcvette: i took one from a 2005 hp but the cable had some pins blocked off and would not fit on the 34 pin board on the old computer
12:39 AM Loetmichel: should only be one pin
12:39 AM Loetmichel: its the "index"
12:39 AM Loetmichel: its not connected on the old cables
12:39 AM Loetmichel: just drill out the hole in the cable and it should work
12:39 AM Loetmichel: the missing hole
12:43 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181120_112844438.jpg (89KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/lMQjIaPScRByVNKQnDnlTidx >
12:43 AM Loetmichel: its meant to prevent you from accidentally flipping the cable
12:43 AM Lcvette: oh cool!
12:43 AM Lcvette: ok i will give that a try!
12:43 AM Lcvette: heading out to drill it and try now!
12:43 AM Lcvette: lol
01:15 AM Lcvette: Morning
01:15 AM Lcvette: Well, Loetmichel, that got me closer than I have been yet!
01:15 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181122_020110165_HDR.jpg (32KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/cbHovnnZNvuBvuEZlNQgKUhS >
01:16 AM Lcvette: I was so excited I thought it was going to load and boot!
01:16 AM Lcvette: Then... Meh
01:16 AM Lcvette: Lol
01:27 AM Loetmichel: Lcvette: did the motor come on?
01:27 AM Loetmichel: and the drive light?
01:28 AM Lcvette: yes, it loaded
01:28 AM Loetmichel: hmmm
01:28 AM Loetmichel: then it should read just fine
01:28 AM Lcvette: that splash screen is from a file
01:28 AM Lcvette: yes
01:28 AM Lcvette: i believe there is a corrupted file
01:28 AM Loetmichel: disk is ok?
01:29 AM Lcvette: well...
01:29 AM Lcvette: lol
01:29 AM Lcvette: the original disk will not even recognize
01:29 AM Loetmichel: could also be that its written with a slightly misalinged drive
01:29 AM Loetmichel: whats the problem with the original drive?
01:29 AM Lcvette: so i built a new dos 6.22 boot disk for it and copied over the two system files from the old bad disk
01:30 AM Lcvette: the drive that wrote this disk is the drive that is reading this disk
01:30 AM Loetmichel: ah, i see
01:30 AM Lcvette: lol
01:30 AM Lcvette: i robbed it from the old computer i used to make it
01:30 AM Loetmichel: disk damaged?
01:30 AM Loetmichel: i assume its as old as the drives?
01:30 AM Lcvette: disk is a new disk i had
01:31 AM Loetmichel: "new" from when?
01:31 AM Lcvette: but as crappy as they were at the end of the era that isn't saying much
01:31 AM Loetmichel: magnetic tape material ages even on the shelve
01:31 AM Lcvette: new from probably 2006ish
01:31 AM Loetmichel: try another one
01:32 AM Lcvette: im fresh out
01:32 AM Lcvette: need to find some more
01:32 AM Lcvette: but it loaded two of the files fine
01:32 AM Lcvette: thats what i don't understand
01:32 AM Lcvette: or i think i understand
01:33 AM Lcvette: i think that the system file it is trying to load is bad
01:33 AM Lcvette: not on the disk but the original
01:33 AM Lcvette: which is from a disk that it wouldn't read at all
01:33 AM Lcvette: this disk it would at least read, and begin loading msdon
01:33 AM Lcvette: s
01:34 AM Lcvette: and upon abort it gave me a prompt
01:34 AM Lcvette: so im guessing dos loaded just not the system software for the machine
01:50 AM Loetmichel: looks like it. yes
01:51 AM Lcvette: software i can get
01:51 AM Lcvette: hardware is another story so that was a major hurdle you helped me with!!
01:51 AM Lcvette: thank you!
01:52 AM Loetmichel: if you can: try something like that: https://www.ebay.de/i/111694637702?chn=ps
01:52 AM Loetmichel: my pleasure
01:53 AM Loetmichel: i am glad if i can help
01:53 AM Lcvette: i figured this machine was too old for it work with
01:53 AM Lcvette: i looked at them
01:53 AM Loetmichel: it simulates the shugart bus, so it should work with any machine that uses it
01:59 AM Lcvette: do i need to get the 720k version?
02:02 AM miss0r: my god. what sexy looking contraption is that?, Loetmichel
02:02 AM miss0r: wow. a floppy disk emulator, that can read USB.. :o
02:03 AM miss0r: I think I need to own one
02:35 AM miss0r: Do any of you guys have experience with the fleabay CO2 laser cutters? Mow much do I need to dish out for one, that would not make me want to kill myslef after 5 minuts of usage?
03:28 AM Loetmichel: *GNAAAA* when you dont check EVERYTHING a dell tech does... Just got a dell notebook back from a customer after he send it here for repairs (mainboard swap)... he got it back, called "yes, the bluescreens are gone... the GPU too, though!"... got the notebook back today: indeed, even the bios shows only the intel chip, not the Nvidia it has... opened it: gpu sits ok, but isnt recognized...
03:28 AM Loetmichel: also i found two destroyed screw heads and a FFC connector for the front leds he plugged in with the pull tab instead of the contact end of the FFC... MAAAAN....
03:55 AM cpresser: miss0r: depends, afaik they all (regardless of price) come with the "LaserCut"-Software which is rather shitty. I have not seen others in the price range < 10k yet
03:56 AM cpresser: i have seen some that had the stop wired to the controller, not directly to an interrupter-relay that stops the laser-tube and motor.
03:56 AM cpresser: also the case might not be properly grounded.
03:57 AM cpresser: all of that can be fixed if you are fine with redoing parts of the wiring
03:57 AM cpresser: there is also linuxcnc support for lasers-cutters with raster engraving. but not easy-to-use toolchain for combined vector-cut and engraving that I am aware of
04:30 AM XXCoder: hey all
04:43 AM jthornton: morning
04:43 AM XXCoder: yo
04:45 AM XXCoder: I see youre starting to update docs. nice
04:46 AM jthornton: yea I pushed the 2.7 config yesterday going to push the 2.8 version after testing this morning then on to the documents
04:48 AM XXCoder: after some thinking I really like the "workaround" I used better than proper way (length, diameter of tool)
04:49 AM XXCoder: because it will show physical tool, even if there is no d, and no h
04:49 AM XXCoder: if h is not used then tooltip would be still be at cat30 so it would show that program would crash a tool
04:50 AM XXCoder: so it would visualize machine tool much better
04:52 AM jthornton: I'll have to look when I wake up lol I never use G43 Hn I just use G43
04:53 AM XXCoder: hmm interesting. what happens if just g43? does it get default height, aka same number as tool in holder?
04:54 AM jthornton: it uses the tool that is loaded with Tn M6
04:54 AM XXCoder: yeah thats what I meant by toold in holder though wrong words
04:54 AM XXCoder: lemme test that
04:55 AM XXCoder: gonna edit file to load xed not gcode
04:55 AM XXCoder: err gedit
04:57 AM XXCoder: okay edited cds to load t3 and just use g43.
04:57 AM XXCoder: its interesting that cds do not use tool diameter d
04:59 AM jthornton: cds?
04:59 AM XXCoder: cds.ngc the circle diamond square gcode example
05:00 AM XXCoder: g43 worked. interesting. its running tool 3 which is long and slender tool
05:01 AM jthornton: ah, I have not looked at the sample G code in a long time... interesting that the splash code is finally made to run lol
05:01 AM XXCoder: isnt it always have worked?
05:01 AM XXCoder: I have used linuxcnc engrave so many times
05:02 AM jthornton: no it has never worked unless you jog z down then touch off... some silly idea that you need to do that in real life so the sim must be the same
05:02 AM XXCoder: oh
05:02 AM jthornton: so IMHO a bad first example for someone that knows nothing
05:03 AM XXCoder: so it has bypass for sim?
05:03 AM jthornton: new code in the coop is working again lol broke it this morning
05:03 AM jthornton: no, someone just moved the z down so it did not error out
05:04 AM XXCoder: pretty simple fix
05:04 AM XXCoder: whats good example gcode that uses tool comp?
05:04 AM XXCoder: diamter
05:04 AM jthornton: yea when newbee's start LinuxCNC they want to run the sample code
05:05 AM XXCoder: i wanna see how rolfmill reacts with it
05:05 AM jthornton: dunno grep for g40
05:05 AM XXCoder: ok
05:05 AM jthornton: or g41 g42 maybe
05:06 AM jthornton: now I think the nc_files directory is a bit silly with all the links
05:07 AM XXCoder: theres also so many examples that dont really tell me anythinbg
05:07 AM XXCoder: maybe need some directory refactoring
05:07 AM XXCoder: like "machine test" and "visual examples"
05:08 AM jthornton: looks like grep returned a lot of ngc files with g41
05:08 AM jthornton: I use grep -irl 'g41' *
05:08 AM XXCoder: cool
05:08 AM XXCoder: recrusive list whats i? insensive?
05:09 AM XXCoder: insensive case
05:09 AM jthornton: yea returns caps and lowercase
05:09 AM XXCoder: cool
05:09 AM jthornton: that returns a list of each file where search is found
05:16 AM XXCoder: lol comp-g1.ngc is broken
05:16 AM XXCoder: it requires postive coord as it doesnt even use any coord g code like g54
05:23 AM XXCoder: "stright feed in concave corner cannot be reached by the tool without gouging"
05:24 AM XXCoder: interesting error when I add g41 to cds.ngc
05:30 AM XXCoder: finally found one http://www.helmancnc.com/g41-g40-cutter-radius-compensation-example-cnc-mill-program/
05:31 AM XXCoder: broken example vbut easy enough to fix
05:38 AM XXCoder: very broken example
05:39 AM XXCoder: had to virtually rewrite it
05:42 AM Tom_L: morning
05:42 AM XXCoder: jthornton: where is 2.8 version? I tried editing url from 2.7 to 2.8 but didnt work
05:42 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/
05:42 AM Tom_L: docs?
05:43 AM XXCoder: thanks
05:44 AM XXCoder: tom jt got copy of rolfmill (vismach I created) so he could read my long and bad grammar filled comments in it
05:44 AM XXCoder: so he can figure what im saying and update docs
05:44 AM Tom_L: i was aware he was adding it to the docs
05:44 AM XXCoder: also add rolfmill as example machine I think
05:48 AM Tom_L: jthornton, what tool do you select when you use G43 without an H word?
05:49 AM XXCoder: the current tool
06:02 AM jthornton: sorry in another window working on my new chicken door code it opens in 18 minutes or not lol
06:02 AM XXCoder: no plm, what bug was it anyway
06:04 AM jthornton: using my new code for the first time the one that does the light based on hours of daylight etc.
06:04 AM XXCoder: ahh yea
06:05 AM XXCoder: am I misremembering that you said you will add rolfmach as sim example?
06:05 AM jthornton: I've added it to 2.7 yesterday and will do 2.8 today
06:06 AM XXCoder: cool :)
06:06 AM jthornton: after the chicken door is proven or not lol
06:06 AM XXCoder: i hope it helps lot people
06:06 AM XXCoder: too work is still very ill defined.
06:17 AM jthornton: 3 minutes... till the door works or not lol
06:17 AM XXCoder: my prediction: door opens sideways and fog comes out
06:17 AM jthornton: silly the splash code was fixed to run but the comments were not changed...
06:18 AM jthornton: if it opens sideways we are all in big trouble lol
06:18 AM XXCoder: yep lol
06:18 AM jthornton: running RolfMill in 2.8 while I wait
06:19 AM jthornton: I wonder how you put a title on the tk window?
06:19 AM XXCoder: I wish I knew
06:19 AM XXCoder: i think no example actually does it?
06:20 AM jthornton: ohh the lights came on and the door is opening
06:20 AM XXCoder: and no fog?
06:20 AM XXCoder: oh well I totally missed on my guess lol
06:24 AM jthornton: all right no more messing with that code until after sunrise... don't want the lights blinking
06:29 AM jthornton: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/0dca748c12a3fec11f0ade5cf132fe1d0ad94faf
06:30 AM jthornton: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/commit/426d24036cad2e4cb1b3358bcf303a2d9b83b724
06:36 AM jthornton: now to do the docs... and it's full of first person narration...
06:36 AM XXCoder: looking
06:36 AM XXCoder: nice
06:45 AM XXCoder: oops 193 is still wrong word
06:45 AM XXCoder: *line 193
06:46 AM XXCoder: xassembly not xbase
06:52 AM jthornton: copy paste error too many copies lol
06:52 AM jthornton: fixed
06:52 AM XXCoder: no plm lol
06:53 AM XXCoder: need to uncomment last line in HAL in 2.,8 version
06:53 AM jthornton: just now trying to sort out the last line and wondering how the primitives are created in relation to lat and lon?
06:53 AM XXCoder: oh thats just view
06:53 AM XXCoder: picture this
06:53 AM XXCoder: the model zero zero zero is what camera is looking at
06:53 AM XXCoder: first camera parameter is how far away camera is from 0 0 0
06:54 AM jthornton: what lat and lon is the initial part made at?
06:54 AM XXCoder: last 2 is sphere coordate
06:54 AM jthornton: I figured out the last line zoom, lat, and lon
06:54 AM XXCoder: like earth long and latatude
06:54 AM jthornton: yea
06:54 AM XXCoder: model and view is nicely seperated
06:55 AM XXCoder: so you just need to worry where zeros is since tooltip is there initially, and zassembly is built at very specific place so motion is correctly done
06:55 AM XXCoder: in fact x and y is also same, just that it is already at 0 on respective axis so not needed a move
06:57 AM XXCoder: line 229 is where I start to explain about how to arrange z
06:59 AM XXCoder: oh hmm tool length might not work in 2.8 since s.poll() is commented in 2.8 version
06:59 AM XXCoder: did you test it?
06:59 AM jthornton: somewhat yes
07:00 AM XXCoder: really all it does is make sure table is updated so usually someone dont change tool table in middle of run anyway
07:00 AM XXCoder: maybe I am wrong on requiring a update in first place lemme test 2,7
07:01 AM jthornton: yea I just loaded a tool in 2.8 with no problem it shows up correctly
07:01 AM XXCoder: testing what happens if tool length is changed
07:02 AM jthornton: is shows a move
07:02 AM XXCoder: 2.7 it doesnt show if s.poll() is disabled. lemme check table
07:04 AM XXCoder: yep it doesnt. strange!
07:04 AM XXCoder: tested with it enabled and disabled
07:04 AM XXCoder: tool only show up with s.poll()
07:05 AM XXCoder: I guess 2.8 acts differently
07:12 AM XXCoder: welcome back
07:13 AM jthornton: where did I go?
07:13 AM XXCoder: meanie peer kicked you
07:17 AM XXCoder: someone said someone was looking for vismach example but forgot who
07:17 AM weenerdog: goooood mawnin
07:17 AM XXCoder: i was already planning to make one weeks ago but it took me this long to get willpower up
07:17 AM XXCoder: glad its... mostly done now
07:17 AM XXCoder: people can use other examples for stl import and such I guess
07:25 AM weenerdog: i'm reading about stl. series of dumb ass questions to follow :>
07:26 AM * jthornton goes to shower while the docs build
07:29 AM weenerdog: stl is the format expected by vismach?
07:30 AM XXCoder: i havent really researched into that, i went all standard shapes in rolfmach
07:30 AM XXCoder: er rolfmill
07:30 AM XXCoder: I think 2 formats is allowed, obj and stl
07:31 AM XXCoder: there is couple good examples like hbmgui
07:31 AM XXCoder: maybe not that one
07:33 AM weenerdog: i snarfed up a 20" touch screen for $5 at a thrift store yestiddy for my linuxcnc box so i'll install that probably tonight and get to work with it
07:33 AM XXCoder: wow
07:33 AM XXCoder: that is nice
07:33 AM XXCoder: I want a nice controls screen with kmobs switches etc
07:33 AM XXCoder: I hate using keyboard for cnc
07:33 AM XXCoder: spoiled by machines at work I guess
07:33 AM weenerdog: 1680x1050 too
07:34 AM weenerdog: ya i saw it and wagged my tail lol
07:34 AM XXCoder: part = AsciiOBJ(filename="path/to/OBJ_file.obj")
07:35 AM XXCoder: stl and obj should be approately placed so you can easily set halmotion for it, and if needed, translate it afterwards
07:36 AM XXCoder: stl version part = AsciiSTL(filename="path/to/file.stl)
07:41 AM weenerdog: i think i'll be smarter by the time i am slangin sawdust with this
08:17 AM gonzo_- is now known as gonzo_
08:45 AM Loetmichel: Anyone an idea what the dark violet coating on tungsten carbide tools is called?
08:47 AM Rab: Loetmichel, like this? http://en.northtungsten.com/imageRepository/2a531518-561b-4804-8008-bdd0077fca83.jpg
08:47 AM Rab: I assumed it was some kind of heat treatment.
08:48 AM Tom_L: Titanium Aluminum Nitride
08:48 AM Rab: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_aluminium_nitride
08:48 AM Rab: huh
08:49 AM Loetmichel: thanx, thats it
08:50 AM Tom_L: https://www.hannibalcarbide.com/technical-support/titanium-coatings.php
09:29 AM hazzy-m: Happy Thanksgiving to yall in the US
09:29 AM Lcvette: HappybThanksgiving!
09:29 AM Lcvette: \where are you?
09:30 AM Lcvette: Loetmichel: im looking at those floppy to usb converters and there are a ton of different ones,
09:33 AM Lcvette: any ideas on one from the states i should focus on to try?
09:33 AM gregcnc: are you forced to use one of those?
09:33 AM Lcvette: looking that way
09:33 AM gregcnc: old machine?
09:33 AM Lcvette: yes
09:33 AM gregcnc: no DNC?
09:33 AM Lcvette: 8088, non isa, dos, edge card 3.5" is bad and the 5.25.. well i don't have anything to write or read those
09:33 AM Lcvette: 8-bit
09:33 AM gregcnc: ah
09:33 AM Lcvette: soooo....
09:33 AM Lcvette: lol
09:34 AM Lcvette: yeah i need some way to boot and some way to test loading some code
09:35 AM gregcnc: i was looking at those last year, but ended up just getting USB floppy drive to output files
09:36 AM Lcvette: ?
09:36 AM Lcvette: whats that?
09:36 AM Lcvette: oh usb floppy drive for newer computer
09:36 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: that doesent help Lcvette. he needs the 2,5" to boot from it
09:36 AM Loetmichel: 3,5"
09:36 AM gregcnc: correct
09:36 AM Lcvette: yeah i got one of those too
09:37 AM gregcnc: those floppy emulators are priced all over the place, CNC co will charge 500+USD
09:37 AM * Loetmichel has the opposite problem: customer wants 3,5" floppy on a new PC...
09:38 AM Loetmichel: had to mill an enclosure to mount an external USB floppy drive into an 3,5" slot...
09:38 AM Lcvette: that is an easier solution
09:38 AM Lcvette: lol
09:38 AM gregcnc: there are internal usb floppy?
09:39 AM Loetmichel: not any more
09:39 AM gregcnc: ebay
09:39 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181122_103720230.jpg (25KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/xQiUaTYuPNRydVBqlzbGriFh >
09:39 AM gregcnc: china junk, maybe they suck
09:39 AM Loetmichel: IBMs server division was the last one that produced one. and they discontinued it long ago
09:40 AM Lcvette: epson smd-400
09:41 AM gregcnc: the drive is bad or what is that some kind of adapter?
09:41 AM Lcvette: lol
09:41 AM Lcvette: exactly
09:41 AM Lcvette: that my friend is the old style connector
09:41 AM Lcvette: pre IDE
09:41 AM Lcvette: called an edge card connector
09:41 AM gregcnc: hoyl shit I've never even seen one
09:42 AM Lcvette: right!
09:42 AM Lcvette: welcome to the world of wtf can be done
09:42 AM Lcvette: lol
09:42 AM gregcnc: my quesiton is always, how have others solved it?
09:43 AM Lcvette: mine too
09:43 AM Lcvette: so i said easy no problem hop on the google
09:43 AM Lcvette: and i head to the vintage forums
09:43 AM Lcvette: and i get reactions like yours
09:44 AM Lcvette: and then it hits me... the resource pool of knowledge available on this issue may be finite
09:44 AM Lcvette: in order to copy one, must be able to find one to copy
09:44 AM Lcvette: lol
09:44 AM Lcvette: so far not much luck
09:45 AM Loetmichel: yeah, the ones like me that still have an 8" floppy drive in the cellar and have used it are dying off
09:46 AM Lcvette: i think the fact that its soo old and the fact that the machine mfg'er kind of Loetmichel has been the most valuable resourse so far
09:46 AM Lcvette: :D
09:47 AM gregcnc: what machine is this?
09:47 AM Lcvette: the little Rhino ST8 cnc slant bed lathe i picked up
09:48 AM Loetmichel: hmmm
09:48 AM Loetmichel: it should be relatively easy to fit a new drive in there
09:48 AM Loetmichel: "new"
09:49 AM gregcnc: so no spare 3.5" to try in there?
09:49 AM Loetmichel: maybe your "new" drive and/or your disks are bad?
09:49 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: he already did
09:49 AM gregcnc: ok
09:49 AM Loetmichel: read command.com then crapped out at the other files
09:49 AM Loetmichel: read errors
09:49 AM gregcnc: a while ago i had a bunch of bad 3.5" that worked a few years prior
09:50 AM Loetmichel: thats why i suggested to get such a floppy emulator if he can get the files off the disks he uses
09:50 AM Lcvette: right
09:50 AM Lcvette: we think we got the read sorted
09:50 AM Lcvette: but that only buys me the abilkity to boot the system
09:50 AM Lcvette: but then i need a second drive to be able to write
09:50 AM Lcvette: ie load code
09:51 AM Loetmichel: two floppy emulators ;)
09:51 AM Loetmichel: one for boot, one for the data stick
09:51 AM Lcvette: yes but which ones?
09:51 AM Lcvette: there are hundreds
09:51 AM Loetmichel: i would try the cheapest ones
09:51 AM Lcvette: i got confused trying to find the right one to order, they all say they are for different things
09:52 AM Loetmichel: they all should work and you dont need much features
09:52 AM Loetmichel: or use the serial connection to transfer programs to it
09:52 AM Lcvette: ?
09:52 AM Lcvette: it does have an rs-232 on the back that says punch
09:52 AM Lcvette: lol
09:52 AM Lcvette: guessing for a punch reader
09:53 AM Loetmichel: usually those old machines have a com port that can be used to get Gcode into the machine
09:53 AM Loetmichel: indeed
09:53 AM Loetmichel: in the old days we used paper tape to program the machines
09:53 AM Lcvette: i learned on a paper eater
09:54 AM Loetmichel: would be a nice project to make a punch tape "writer" for a modern pc with USB connector ;)
09:54 AM Lcvette: but didn't know how the internals worked
09:54 AM Loetmichel: simple, really
09:54 AM Lcvette: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fanuc-USB-FLASH-memory-upgrade-for-all-Fanuc-CNC-Machines-connects-to-RS232/201605212914?epid=1774016741&hash=item2ef09b6af2:g:2XUAAOSwv0tVH-pX:rk:22:pf:0
09:54 AM Lcvette: spendy
09:55 AM Loetmichel: such a punch rader is just a bunch (7 iirc) light switches and a shift register
09:55 AM Loetmichel: load parallel, send serial, transport tape one step, load parallel......
09:55 AM Loetmichel: and so on
09:56 AM Loetmichel: Lcvette: How about to get that lathe converted to linuxCNC?
09:57 AM Lcvette: oh going too!
09:57 AM Loetmichel: could be less hassle than to get the old thing running
09:57 AM Lcvette: but i would like to get it fired up and see what works
09:57 AM Lcvette: it will determine my retrofit plans
09:57 AM Lcvette: it is a servo driven machine
09:57 AM Lcvette: but they are some funny servo drives that require pwm
09:58 AM Lcvette: which requires some funny mesa cards besides the normal ones im used too
09:58 AM gregcnc: pwm is not that uncommon
09:58 AM Lcvette: so i hate to start buying special stuff without knowing if the drives actually work
09:58 AM Lcvette: it is if i were to try and buy updated servos
09:59 AM Lcvette: meaning the new drives would not work with the pwm board setup
09:59 AM Lcvette: just trying to assess the machine
09:59 AM Lcvette: the turret
09:59 AM Lcvette: spindle drive and motor
09:59 AM Loetmichel: yes, or use the old drivers and adapt them to a new system
09:59 AM Lcvette: power
10:00 AM Lcvette: if i updated the system, i would update the whole system with more modern hardware
10:00 AM Lcvette: if i decide to leave it instact i will leave it mainly stock and intact with very little hardware changes
10:00 AM Lcvette: the existing servos are 500 line encoder units and VERY small and tucked away
10:01 AM * Loetmichel did convert a big brake disc grinder from curve controlled to PcNC and siemens ac drives a few decades back
10:01 AM Loetmichel: that was fun
10:01 AM Lcvette: they cannot even be replaced now days i don't think
10:01 AM Loetmichel: all parts from ebay...
10:01 AM Loetmichel: first time i saw a 3kw servo motor jump 2 feet up from its pallet while testing ;)
10:01 AM gregcnc: How small could they be form early 80's?
10:02 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: yopu would be surprised
10:02 AM FinboySlick: About the size of a walkman! *queue synth music*
10:02 AM gregcnc: lol
10:02 AM Loetmichel: i have seen 50 years old DC servos about the sije of a fist that could do about 1kW
10:02 AM FinboySlick: Damn I miss the 80s.
10:03 AM Lcvette: 1/10hp 54mm round no square flange
10:03 AM FinboySlick: Cocaine and naiveté.
10:03 AM Lcvette: and they packed them in such a tight space there is no room
10:03 AM Lcvette: pic uploading
10:03 AM gregcnc: 2" encoder is small?
10:03 AM Lcvette: thats the servo size
10:03 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181118_193215568.jpg (1362KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/NPAPDZCQbuvNmLmvqJmprCEi >
10:05 AM gregcnc: those machines have round linear guides?
10:06 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: ymail-tmp-777959756.jpg (35KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/dxRSHykrRCUvNYwTaLzNSFNn >
10:06 AM Lcvette: they used Thomson Linear stages
10:07 AM Lcvette: I HATE round guides, but these are pretty beefy as they go
10:07 AM Lcvette: they are full length of the table
10:07 AM gregcnc: I did not know.
10:08 AM Lcvette: me either until i pulled her skirts back
10:08 AM gregcnc: finding motors wouldn't be tough, but a huge pain. But you could easily replace the drives with some cheap analog drive
10:09 AM Lcvette: yeah but 500line encoders?
10:09 AM Lcvette: kinda weak
10:09 AM gregcnc: screw pitch? any reduction?
10:10 AM Lcvette: .200"
10:10 AM Lcvette: belt reduction
10:10 AM gregcnc: teaching machine need not be very accurate
10:10 AM gregcnc: ratio?
10:10 AM Lcvette: exsactly
10:10 AM gregcnc: that's why I like the Emco this size
10:12 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181119_025052830.jpg (30KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/sTUhfPNVtbHDMPveEuwYejkc >
10:12 AM Lcvette: D1-4 spindle
10:12 AM Lcvette: 1.5" spindle bore
10:12 AM Lcvette: 5" chuck
10:12 AM jthornton: nice size bore
10:13 AM jthornton: does it have a tail stock?
10:13 AM Lcvette: machine weighs in at 707lbs
10:13 AM Lcvette: 797lbs
10:13 AM Lcvette: its heavy for a small machine
10:13 AM gregcnc: it can't be terrible
10:14 AM Lcvette: no
10:14 AM gregcnc: unfortunate that there is so little about them online
10:14 AM Lcvette: i think it will be a cool little machine
10:14 AM gregcnc: they probably made 3 or 4
10:14 AM Lcvette: lol
10:14 AM gregcnc: Like the dumb lathe I ended up with
10:14 AM Lcvette: they made a bunch, the problem is that they made them so long ago and stopped making them so long ago that there are very few around
10:14 AM Lcvette: i too love the emco's
10:15 AM Lcvette: but this one popped up so i jumped on it
10:15 AM Lcvette: i got it for $995 shipped
10:15 AM gregcnc: I think i bid on a rhino at gov auction while I was shopping for mine
10:15 AM Lcvette: intact and unmolested
10:16 AM jthornton: damn that's cheap to include shipping for 800 pounds of steel
10:16 AM Lcvette: was cheap because the whole thing fit on a 48x40 pallet..lol
10:17 AM Lcvette: the guy who shipped it is a professional too, it was packaged like a boss
10:17 AM Lcvette: think he said shipping came to $297
10:17 AM Lcvette: when i got it it was rough looking
10:17 AM Lcvette: had a coat of surface rust on it
10:17 AM Lcvette: had to clean it up
10:17 AM Lcvette: a cable was broken and the monitor was broken
10:18 AM Lcvette: but i found both of those cheap fortunately
10:18 AM Lcvette: under $50
10:18 AM Lcvette: so if i could get it fired up and have a running machine for under $1100.. i would say thats a win
10:19 AM gregcnc: .0001" axis resolution is decent
10:19 AM Lcvette: yeah but backlash from the belt drive im sure
10:19 AM Lcvette: if i convert it I would go direct drive
10:19 AM Lcvette: think it would be the easiest
10:20 AM gregcnc: if there is space
10:20 AM Lcvette: there is
10:20 AM Lcvette: room for a 200w servo above the X
10:20 AM Lcvette: and plenty of room on the Z
10:20 AM gregcnc: then why didn't they build it that way?
10:20 AM Lcvette: probably because of the type motors they used
10:21 AM Lcvette: the drives and everything are proprietary
10:21 AM Lcvette: so they probably used really small motors for a reason
10:21 AM gregcnc: same reason emco does, so a crash doesn't explode the machine
10:21 AM Lcvette: the motors they uised are long and skinny they wouldn't fit
10:22 AM Lcvette: they would hit the inside of the cabinet
10:22 AM Lcvette: but a 200w DMM servo has a mounted length of 97mm
10:22 AM Lcvette: and gives about 12mm of clesarance back there
10:22 AM Lcvette: and should be plenty of power to move the x axis i would think
10:23 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: IMG_20181115_184635.jpg (19KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/kKSqtsWIhWYMgaSniwKkcLOV >
10:24 AM Lcvette: came with this chuck too
10:24 AM Lcvette: :D
10:25 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: scv_1542431242230801264445-1.jpg (29KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/BThyQMqBmcfeqWnBHrbVELIx >
10:25 AM Lcvette: has room to fit this motor too
10:26 AM gregcnc: existing spindle motor power?
10:26 AM Lcvette: .5
10:27 AM Lcvette: new motor would be a vector duty 1.5hp 3ph AC
10:27 AM Lcvette: 1000:1 constant torque
10:29 AM * Lcvette uploaded an image: Rhino ST8 CNC Lathe 1.png (932KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/eFDkCenzbGrDTMXcRepbqeTp >
10:30 AM gregcnc: is it set up for coolant?
10:30 AM Lcvette: quasi yes
10:31 AM Lcvette: has a coolant output in the controller, and has a drain panel in the bottom of the cabinet, but the cabinet would need to be sealed i think
10:32 AM Loetmichel: <- waiting for end of work day... miscalculated again how long the part will run on the CNC
10:33 AM Lcvette: does your cam not give you machining times?
10:33 AM Loetmichel: nope
10:34 AM Loetmichel: only half an hour overtime though
10:34 AM Loetmichel: and its close to finished
10:34 AM Lcvette: not too bad
10:35 AM Loetmichel: a few 100 heagonal holes take a while.... ;)
10:35 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7eO5cu-fXg
10:36 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17189&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 - making PC enclosures :-)
10:36 AM gregcnc: what size tooling fits that turret?
10:36 AM Lcvette: lol.. you gotta put a hula skirt on the monitor and give it a funny screen saver face
10:36 AM Loetmichel: indeed
10:36 AM Lcvette: us 1/2"
10:37 AM Loetmichel: its quite full inside those boxes: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17235&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
10:37 AM Lcvette: nice!!
10:38 AM Lcvette: you got it packed in there nicely
10:38 AM Lcvette: i like the cooling fan
10:38 AM gregcnc: 1/2 hp just isn't much power. I'd be doing an retrofit for that reason alone, unless i could hack a way to get a bigger motor in there
10:39 AM Lcvette: motor will fit no problem
10:39 AM Lcvette: spindle control is pwm
10:39 AM Lcvette: so a spinx4 pwm to analog converter from mesa would do the trick
10:39 AM Lcvette: or if the drive could work with a pwm signal
10:39 AM gregcnc: I think a lot of vfd take pwm
10:40 AM Lcvette: the belt drive has three steps
10:40 AM Lcvette: fastest is a 1:1
10:40 AM Lcvette: so there is again alot of reduction there
10:40 AM Lcvette: think the slowest is 3:1
10:41 AM Tom_L: Lcvette so this is an 8088 you're trying to find a 3.5" floppy for?
10:41 AM Tom_L: do you need the card as well?
10:41 AM Lcvette: it also had an optional pneumatic chuck and pneumatic collet
10:41 AM gregcnc: I don't think I would bother with belt changes
10:41 AM Lcvette: Tom_L: yes
10:41 AM gregcnc: does it have an actuator?
10:41 AM Tom_L: i think i still have a couple old 5.25 drives too
10:42 AM Tom_L: and it takes the card edge connector instead of the pin style?
10:42 AM Lcvette: no to the card
10:42 AM Lcvette: card is fine floppy is not working
10:42 AM Lcvette: yes
10:42 AM Tom_L: so all you need is a 3.5" floppy with a card edge connector or a ribbon to convert it to pin
10:43 AM * Loetmichel has about 1000 ribbon cables here with 3*34 pin and 2*edge
10:43 AM Lcvette: last night Loetmichel told me to drill the blocked pin on the ribbon for my newer floppy and i did and it seemed to be able to read but now i have a software issue i am trying to resolve
10:44 AM Lcvette: need to get good files
10:44 AM Tom_L: what sort of software issue?
10:44 AM Tom_L: dos?
10:44 AM Lcvette: no the dos is fine i think
10:44 AM Loetmichel: read errors
10:44 AM Lcvette: its a fresh install of 6.22
10:44 AM Lcvette: its the actual machine software
10:44 AM * Tom_L puts his 1.2 dos away
10:44 AM Lcvette: that the system boots into
10:45 AM gregcnc: did you find anyone who knows about this machine specifically?
10:45 AM Lcvette: but a few nights ago i wrestled with dos
10:45 AM Lcvette: yes i found a gentleman who has been a bunch of help
10:46 AM Lcvette: he is AWESOME with these machines and he is awesome with old schoole hardware and software
10:46 AM Lcvette: but he is not so much with newer hardware and software
10:46 AM Lcvette: and i find that he sometimes draws hard lines in the sand where there should not be
10:46 AM Lcvette: where he will say, No it won't work
10:46 AM Lcvette: then i find it will work etc
10:47 AM Tom_L: he's used to his old tools
10:47 AM Lcvette: such as when we were trying to make a dos boot disk
10:47 AM Lcvette: he said we couldn't boot into dos from a dvd
10:47 AM Lcvette: but then we did
10:47 AM Lcvette: lol
10:47 AM Tom_L: back then you didn't have modern pcs that could do that for you
10:48 AM Lcvette: yeah
10:48 AM Lcvette: he told me the usb to floppy emulator wouldn't work on that machine and rattles of tons of information and sounds very convincing
10:48 AM Lcvette: so of coure i took it at face value
10:48 AM Tom_L: i doubt you could boot from it
10:49 AM Lcvette: but now Loetmichel says it should work and he was also right about the more modern floppyn being able to read.. so im getting mismatched information from my Rhino guy
10:49 AM Lcvette: boot from what?
10:49 AM Tom_L: the usb emulator
10:49 AM Lcvette: i mean on a mdoern machine
10:50 AM Tom_L: i almost needed one a while back but resoldered the MB instead and all is good again
10:50 AM Tom_L: memory & drive connectors were starting to fail
10:51 AM Tom_L: i think i still have my first 8088 pc somewhere..
10:51 AM Lcvette: nice!
10:52 AM Tom_L: not sure i have a cga monitior
10:52 AM Tom_L: or monochrome
10:54 AM Lcvette: this is monochrome
10:54 AM Lcvette: i just got an updated machine file to try
10:54 AM allibgbg: hello
10:54 AM Lcvette: gonna go give it a whirl
10:54 AM Tom_L: good luck
10:55 AM allibgbg: Is anybody using bCNC ? i m having some troubles getting started
10:55 AM Tom_L: never heard of it
10:55 AM allibgbg: I put a dremel on my Itopie 3d printer
10:55 AM allibgbg: it is a smoothie clone board
10:56 AM Tom_L: it doesn't generate gcode
10:56 AM Tom_L: looks like it's just a gui for grbl
10:56 AM jthornton: is that a Mack tree thing?
10:57 AM Tom_L: https://github.com/vlachoudis/bCNC
10:57 AM gregcnc: looks like grbl machine control
10:57 AM allibgbg: yes it is
10:57 AM allibgbg: grbl
10:57 AM allibgbg: i used MeshCAM6
10:58 AM allibgbg: to generate reprap gcode
10:58 AM allibgbg: .nc
10:58 AM allibgbg: do you know other grbl softwares ?
10:59 AM gregcnc: no
11:04 AM Tom_L: you could also ask in #robotics
11:04 AM allibgbg: thanks
11:04 AM Tom_L: however one that might know is at work right now
11:05 AM jthornton: ChunkinPunkin? lol
11:05 AM Tom_L: oh hell no
11:05 AM jthornton: lol
11:05 AM Tom_L: he did finally get something cut i think
11:05 AM Tom_L: slowed the feed down like we kept telling him
11:06 AM jthornton: that was the only person I've ever put on ignore lol
11:06 AM Tom_L: being an op in other channels i don't feel like i should
11:07 AM Tom_L: happy thanksgiving btw..
11:07 AM Roguish: yoh, happy Holidaze all.
11:07 AM jthornton: happy thanksgiving to all too
11:08 AM jthornton: after all we ate while on vacation I'm thinking a turkey sandwich without the bread for today lol
11:08 AM Tom_L: no turkey here
11:08 AM Tom_L: i don't think anybody cares for it that much
11:08 AM Roguish: putting an expensive prime rib roast in the oven for slow cooking......
11:08 AM jthornton: we are having shrimp and salad here
11:09 AM Tom_L: all the rest of the goodies but ham instead
11:09 AM allibgbg: belgium here, nothing special, bars waiting
11:09 AM jthornton: I'm picking up a 1 1/2" thick porterhouse for saturday
11:09 AM jthornton: I like ham much better than turkey
11:09 AM Tom_L: i saw a guy walk out of sams the other day with what looked like a 2" cut
11:09 AM jthornton: wow that's huge
11:09 AM Tom_L: they'll cut whatever you want if you ask
11:10 AM jthornton: yea we have a local butcher shop here
11:10 AM Tom_L: yeah almost too thick
11:10 AM jthornton: a 1 1/2" thick will make a bunch of meals for us lol
11:11 AM Tom_L: i've still got 2 boys at home
11:11 AM Tom_L: it goes quick
11:11 AM jthornton: I bet
11:11 AM jthornton: it's been a while since we picked up a porterhouse
11:11 AM Roguish: there's a pretty good real butcher shop in our local grocery chain.
11:11 AM Tom_L: once they leave i'll feel like i won the lottery
11:11 AM jthornton: yup
11:12 AM * jthornton wanders out to stoke the fires in the shops and then take a nap
11:13 AM weenerdog: i bought a whole beef tenderloin on sale last nite :>
11:15 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:19 AM jesseg: Happy Thanksgiving everyone! (at least to those of you in geographical regions where it happens to be Thanksgiving Day...)
11:20 AM jesseg: haha here's a magnetic base that sticks to all non-ferrous metals: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOGA-MAGNETIC-BASE-MG61003-INDICATOR-HOLDER-DIAL-STARRETT-MACHINIST-TOOLS-196/132857060678
11:20 AM jesseg: that's got to be a pretty special magnet
11:29 AM Deejay: hi
11:29 AM weenerdog: lol
03:37 PM Deejay: gn8
03:56 PM Lcvette: It booted up!
03:58 PM * Lcvette uploaded an image: scv_15429162287271751946591_20181122_165557087.jpg (15KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/MFtzmvTieRofOgRUtPEAUGYI >
03:58 PM * Lcvette uploaded an image: scv_15429161018911264425755_20181122_165548726.jpg (23KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/cjeXtiVnEPjqXLMuZmvTAkoB >
03:58 PM * Lcvette uploaded an image: scv_1542916059787837499303_20181122_165544611.jpg (23KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/TAmccBRttyBKHENpqcDmyCcO >
04:00 PM Lcvette: But it's in a not ready state
04:00 PM Lcvette: Gotta find out why
04:00 PM Lcvette: Maybe bad estop switch
04:25 PM allibgbg: Hi, anyone using bCNC ?
04:43 PM jthornton: Lcvette: yea your making progress
04:54 PM Tom_L: 61°F Hi 64, snow sunday.
05:00 PM jthornton: you can keep the snow lol
05:11 PM XXCoder: hey all
05:12 PM jthornton: hey
05:12 PM XXCoder: hows things
05:13 PM jthornton: just waiting for the coop door to close so I can wrap up down here
05:13 PM jthornton: got some work done on the vismach docs but not pushed yet so no show n tell lol
05:18 PM XXCoder: cool
05:40 PM jthornton: see you in the morning
05:54 PM Tom_L: ok i just fixed an odd one i can say i've never seen
05:55 PM Tom_L: you know about the squeaker on your disk brakes. well it's a year old car on the rear and i swear the squeaker was going off already. so i pulled the wheel off to find a leaf wedged in there just right to make the same sound!
05:55 PM Tom_L: she was freaking out thinking she broke it already
08:35 PM flyback-: heh
09:03 PM Lcvette: lol
09:03 PM Lcvette: nice fix.. wish my cars fixed that easy
09:04 PM Lcvette: if mine was squeking, it would be that i found my wife had been driving like that for 6 months and the pad was gone, the pad backing was half its original width and the rotor was shot
09:06 PM Tom_L: not enough miles to have anything like that wrong yet..
09:07 PM Tom_L: that's what had me wondering
09:08 PM weenerdog: i've had the same vehicle for 15 years
09:08 PM Tom_L: yeah i drive em a long time but this one is new
09:56 PM flyback- is now known as carl_sagan
09:56 PM carl_sagan is now known as flyback
10:08 PM XXCoder: Tom_itx: lol a leaf
10:08 PM Tom_itx: go figure
10:10 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L