#linuxcnc Logs
Nov 07 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:14 AM fragalot: hey
12:17 AM gloops: for the bed on my router i fitted 2x2 spars to the metal frame, then surfaced those off, the idea being i could then fit any mdf sheet to the spars and get a flat bed
12:17 AM gloops: rather than having to surface the whole area every time i change the sheet
12:18 AM Wolf__: sounds like a solid idea, wouldnt work well on my plasma table tho
12:19 AM gloops: how close to flat does a plasma table need to be?
12:20 AM gloops: ive never had any dealings with one
12:20 AM Wolf__: not very actually, torch height controller moves the head to follow the metal as it warps
12:21 AM gloops: if i remember right, my metal frame was only about 1mm out over 4x3 feet, very surprising considering i made it on the garage floor lol
12:21 AM Wolf__: I still need to find time to build mine
12:21 AM gloops: 1mm out would be ok for plasma at that then
12:23 AM Wolf__: mine isnt even a table, its just a 1m x 1.5m frame that I plan to just drop on to the plate steel and tubes that I need to cut
12:23 AM Wolf__: I may bother to make a table with slat bed for smaller work at some point
12:24 AM gloops: the ones ive seen usually have like a cattle grid top over a water tray?
12:25 AM Wolf__: yup, usually just strips of metal so you can replace them easy
12:26 AM gloops: suppose if you used bolted flat bar, you could unbolt and flip them over to get 2 goes out of every piece
12:26 AM Wolf__: I have my machine torch now, picked it up a few weeks ago, but worked 3 trade shows back to back so I haven’t had shit for time to get anything done
12:26 AM fragalot: you don't use bolts, you just cut the slots it goes into at a slight curve to friction fit them
12:27 AM gloops: well yeah, just drop them in
12:27 AM Wolf__: now I have 2 trucks to finish up, then 2 more coming in to be done
12:27 AM fragalot: so the bed looks like ((((((((
12:28 AM gloops: Wolf__ building anything for yourself always takes ages, i only got the router done because i had a month off work, id still be working on it now otherwise
12:29 AM gloops: no time, or time and no motivation
12:29 AM Wolf__: I did find a actual use for my 3d printer, making rocker switch adapters seeing the damm trucks dont have standardized switch sizes lol
12:32 AM Wolf__: 21.82mm x 40mm switches in the truck dash, 21x37 come with the body control…
12:33 AM fragalot: pwnt
12:33 AM Wolf__: and the holes are cut at 43.75mm
12:33 AM fragalot: lol
12:34 AM Wolf__: oops measured the truck switch at the wrong spot
12:34 AM Wolf__: they fit somewhat tight tho
12:35 AM Wolf__: tempted to see how painful $$$ wise having a knockout die made for these switches would be
12:43 AM fragalot: fairly resonable if you do it frequently enough
12:43 AM gloops: make a benchtop injection moulder lol
12:43 AM gloops: actually not a big undertaking
12:43 AM Wolf__: need to make the holes in alum dash panels
12:43 AM gloops: oh i thought to make the switches
12:43 AM Wolf__: one plus to these trucks bodies, they come will everything needed for install
12:44 AM gloops: how are you going to mark out for a die though
12:44 AM fragalot: that's why dies have inserts :P
12:44 AM fragalot: anyway i'm off -- ttyl
12:45 AM gloops: i mean that will take more time than marking for a drill
12:45 AM Wolf__: that was my thought as well
12:48 AM Wolf__: knockout die + https://www.greenlee.com/products/DRIVER%2540dPUNCH-HYD-(7646).html?product_id=19203
12:49 AM Wolf__: then I could do the stuff at the install shop vs needing to bring the stuff back to my other shop lol
12:50 AM gloops: worth a trial if it saves time
12:51 AM Wolf__: from the sounds of things I’ll have another 20 trucks to do by march lol
01:03 AM CaptHindsight: well if you ask in that other channel then you should be using wood :p
01:04 AM Wolf__: lol
01:04 AM CaptHindsight: or possibly some cured dried meat
01:13 AM Wolf__: so any insight in to making rectangular switch holes in to 2mm alum Capt?
01:31 AM russian_troll: miss0r2: Today's Log http://www.isaeff.net/logs/%23linuxcnc/2018-11-07.html
01:47 AM Deejay: moin
02:48 AM saldot: Good morning. Trying to figure out the wiring schematic for a Mesa7i76 that i'll connect to a Terrasic PGA card that'll run Machinekit.
02:48 AM saldot: As for the mesa, not sure how i'll supply the power to it. I'll need to supply 5V for the board and stepper signasl (i assume) and 12V for the endstops.
02:49 AM saldot: Can I wire +5V & +12V to the TB1 field connector or do i need to wire the +5V to the TB3 step/ir terminals and wire +5v to each individual stepper?
02:51 AM saldot: OIr perhaps it's enough if i supply 12V and the 7i76 can handle it and "transform" it down to +5v where needed if i place the W1 jumper in the left position?
03:11 AM gloops: probably need to speak to the devs/mesa people saldot
03:11 AM gloops: pcw_mesa jthornton
03:11 AM gloops: its just dropping on them when theyre here
03:12 AM saldot: ok
03:13 AM gloops: hazzy-m gregcnc maybe
03:24 AM miss0r2: hay hay hay
03:24 AM miss0r2: I just got word from the "local" teflon coating company. This is alot cheaper than Id though
03:25 AM miss0r2: I have a part measuring 270x95x95 externally. Alot of surface area as it is bored out to nothing. And they only charge $50 for a treatment
04:52 AM Jin|away is now known as Jin^eLD
04:52 AM Jin^eLD: morning
04:54 AM Jin^eLD: got my machine pedals from Ali, those that were 3EUR per piece, I have to say I am positively surprised. Sure, the casting is a bit rough and some oily chips thread cutting are still there, but otherwise - look good, I am amazed by the price
04:55 AM XXCoder: pedals?
04:55 AM Jin^eLD: sorry, foot switches
04:55 AM Jin^eLD: that'd be the correct term
04:55 AM XXCoder: ahh cool
04:56 AM Jin^eLD: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/LT4-foot-switch-foot-switch-machine-tool-foot-switch-silver-contact/32809170543.html
04:56 AM XXCoder: nice
04:56 AM XXCoder: surpising cheap
04:57 AM Jin^eLD: shipping was more expensive than two switches, but still a lot cheaper than comparable used offers around here
04:58 AM Jin^eLD: inside is a normal micro switch, very primitive construction, but I don't see anything that could go wrong there mechanically
04:59 AM Tom_L: 43F, Hi 49, Lo 36
05:07 AM miss0r2: Jin^eLD: Don't cheap out on the microswitches
05:08 AM Jin^eLD: miss0r2: those are not expensive here either, so replacing would be easy
05:08 AM miss0r2: ahh, indeed.. So a standard microswitch inside of that pedal?
05:08 AM Jin^eLD: yes!
05:08 AM Jin^eLD: I can make a photo of the insides if anyone is interested
05:09 AM miss0r2: no need :) I'm sure the chinese can make 'okay' foot pedals
05:09 AM Jin^eLD: I was looking for those foot pedals here locally, and I think new ones started from 100eur and used ones around 50 or so, per foot switch of course
05:09 AM miss0r2: I had a batch of chinesium microswitches I had to throw out. they broke on the inside due to metal fatigue
05:10 AM miss0r2: yeah.. that is nuts: that almost sounds like what it would cost to make one
05:10 AM miss0r2: :D
05:10 AM Jin^eLD: :)
05:12 AM Jin^eLD: I hope mine were not handmade using a file by some kid, 3 euro including casting, paint, switch, galvanizing and making some profit... really hard to imagine
05:12 AM miss0r2: I can quite easily imagine kids were involved in making them
05:12 AM miss0r2: :)
05:12 AM Jin^eLD: heh
05:13 AM miss0r2: I mean; how in the world would you be able to do something that cheap otherwise?
05:13 AM miss0r2: That is quite ridiculous
05:13 AM Jin^eLD: they are factory made though
05:14 AM miss0r2: You can't even buy proper aluminium casting material for doing it for three eur around here
05:14 AM Jin^eLD: yes...
05:14 AM miss0r2: You sure you are not buying a photograph of a pedal switch? :)
05:14 AM miss0r2: Simular things have happened in the past
05:14 AM Jin^eLD: I have them here
05:14 AM Jin^eLD: they arrived yesterday
05:15 AM Jin^eLD: I think we first had a talk in the channel when I ordered them
05:15 AM Jin^eLD: and the expectations were quite low :)
05:16 AM Jin^eLD: now they're here and don't look bad at all, which surpises me even more given the low price
05:16 AM miss0r2: in that case I would love to see a few photos
05:35 AM Jin^eLD: here you go: http://deadlock.dhs.org/jin/LT4-foot-switch/
05:35 AM Jin^eLD: note the paper isolation of the contacts :))
05:35 AM Jin^eLD: and I need to clean the chips they left from thread cutting
05:35 AM jthornton: morning
05:35 AM Jin^eLD: but otherwise it looks fine to me
05:35 AM Jin^eLD: hi jthornton
05:38 AM Jin^eLD: and they did not grind away stuff after casting, that looks different on each pedal
05:38 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
05:40 AM jthornton: what's up this morning
05:41 AM XXCoder: had to trim one block because saws screwed one part up
05:41 AM XXCoder: and found out that I (somehow) thought all parts of job I finished few days ago was done so I broke down setup
05:42 AM XXCoder: and turns out only half of em was
05:42 AM miss0r2: Jin^eLD: That looks surprisingly good, I must say
05:42 AM XXCoder: so boss was quite upset as setup takes time (which is money) and that part is typically problem one that first part tend to be scrap
05:42 AM miss0r2: Sadly I need to run. See you around
05:42 AM XXCoder: so good chance there will be another
05:43 AM Jin^eLD: miss0r2: it was a surprise to me as well...
05:43 AM Jin^eLD: a positive one :)
05:44 AM XXCoder: jthornton: it pissed me off as normally I check all parts when counting
05:44 AM jthornton: that had to suck
05:44 AM XXCoder: so it was pretty bad screwup
05:46 AM jthornton: we managed to get the planer out of my van yesterday evening and got it on the stand... that was interesting
05:47 AM jthornton: installed windblows xp on a hard drive and now it won't activate...
05:47 AM XXCoder: bleh
05:47 AM XXCoder: did they take down xp activation or is it domething wrong elsewhere?
05:47 AM jthornton: I need that for my ACAD electric schematic program and for an older version of SolidWorks I have
05:48 AM jthornton: I guess so, I've found some work arounds to try
05:48 AM jthornton: worst case I could work from my old laptop...yuck
05:49 AM XXCoder: maybe https://www.wikihow.com/Activate-Windows-XP-Without-a-Genuine-Product-Key
05:49 AM XXCoder: oh wait maybe not it
05:50 AM jthornton: http://www.americancomputerenterprises.com/downloads/how_to_activate_windows_xp_witho.htm
05:50 AM jthornton: that's the one I'm going to try
05:50 AM XXCoder: not bad
05:50 AM jthornton: and crap left a stupid weather page up and now I'm 1.5 GB behind on data for the month
05:51 AM XXCoder: ouch! you should get noscript and disable some scripts
05:51 AM XXCoder: or create eink weather station using old kindle ebook reader hacked
05:51 AM XXCoder: https://mpetroff.net/2012/09/kindle-weather-display/
05:52 AM jthornton: opps got that backwards I'm ahead... need to finish a cup of joe
05:52 AM XXCoder: it downloads ONLY text so very little bandwidtjh
05:52 AM jthornton: I use the wunderground page to get the high and low temps for my chicken spreadsheet
05:54 AM XXCoder: that one updates only twice a day, and downloads "website" from your own server
05:54 AM XXCoder: so very little data used
05:54 AM jthornton: cool
05:54 AM XXCoder: you can even frame it :)
05:54 AM XXCoder: https://www.galacticstudios.org/kindle-weather-display/
05:55 AM XXCoder: that version seems to downloaf more often but still very little data
05:55 AM XXCoder: since bulk of data is pictures and thats from your own server not somewhere remote
05:56 AM jthornton: yea but what I need is data in a spreadsheet form with high and lows for each day
05:56 AM XXCoder: second version does
05:56 AM XXCoder: its more fancy version
05:57 AM XXCoder: if you plan a frame, you can build in a huge battery pack so it could last quite a long time
05:57 AM jthornton: https://www.wunderground.com/history/monthly/us/mo/poplar-bluff/KPOF/date/2018-11
05:57 AM jthornton: scroll down to daily observations, that's what I copy and paste
05:58 AM XXCoder: you could make script to strip that data and create webpage
05:58 AM XXCoder: your kindle could load that page
05:58 AM jthornton: I don't have a kindle...
05:58 AM XXCoder: model on that page? old. easy to get on ebay cheap
05:59 AM XXCoder: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazon-Kindle-Touch-4th-Generation-4GB-WiFi-6in-Gray-w-Ads-Dead-pixel/292575854081 this model
06:00 AM XXCoder: average seems just under 20 bucks. im kinda tempted lol
06:00 AM jthornton: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/rir-egg-size.1216453/page-6
06:01 AM jthornton: you can see the charts I make on that page
06:02 AM XXCoder: other way would be that you just edit website and update data
06:02 AM XXCoder: and kindle simplt keep loading it once a while
06:02 AM XXCoder: one update a day would make kindle live for month even with old battery
06:02 AM XXCoder: or longer
06:03 AM jthornton: I need to find a way to do it without a kindle lol
06:03 AM XXCoder: with battery pack it'd lose power more by idle than actually using it
06:03 AM XXCoder: driving a eink screen is bit harder
06:03 AM jthornton: I got my replacement RPi 3's in yesterday for the chicken door but the heat sinks won't arrive until today
06:03 AM XXCoder: and actually more money strangely
06:04 AM jthornton: hold your breath I'm using dd to back up my RPi SD card...
06:04 AM XXCoder: dd lol pretty dangerous
06:07 AM Jin^eLD: XXCoder: only if you mess up the parameters ;)
06:07 AM XXCoder: yeah I always do triple verify
06:08 AM XXCoder: because its like missile, you better know what you are doing
06:09 AM jthornton: https://thepihut.com/blogs/raspberry-pi-tutorials/17789160-backing-up-and-restoring-your-raspberry-pis-sd-card
06:10 AM jthornton: hope that it correct lol
06:10 AM jthornton: sudo dd if=/dev/sdb of=~/SDCardBackup.img
06:11 AM XXCoder: in from disk and out to file
06:11 AM XXCoder: looks correct
06:11 AM jthornton: yea making a copy of the SD card I hope
06:11 AM XXCoder: restore is just flipped
06:11 AM jthornton: I use etcher to burn :)
06:11 AM XXCoder: guide is qyite strightforward
06:13 AM jthornton: looks like one of the hens is starting to moult maybe, found a bunch of feathers under the roost this morning when they got up
06:13 AM XXCoder: whats the day cycle time at now?
06:14 AM jthornton: it's on the fall cycle as we still have more than 10 hours of daylight
06:14 AM XXCoder: cool
06:14 AM jthornton: I need to get the program into the operating door soon as nov 23 it switches to adding light 5 minutes per day
06:16 AM jthornton: I should have taken a photo of us getting the planer out of the van...
06:18 AM XXCoder: maybe you can bring it out again and pretend it was getting out of van pic ;)
06:19 AM jthornton: naw too much trouble... what we did was take a couple of 4x4's and put in the planer then screwed the planer down till it held the boards then put them over the bucket and under the brace for the loader bucket on the kubota
06:20 AM jthornton: https://www.everythingattachments.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/kubotab7500.jpg
06:21 AM XXCoder: interesting
06:22 AM jthornton: see the tube behind the bucket? that's where we put the 4x4 under
06:23 AM XXCoder: yeah
06:23 AM jthornton: I wish I had a set of forks for the bucket...
06:26 AM XXCoder: that would have made it easier yea
06:27 AM XXCoder: man I hate time changes
06:27 AM XXCoder: it screws with me :(
06:27 AM XXCoder: later
06:27 AM jthornton: me too
06:27 AM jthornton: night
06:40 AM gloops: so..i need a side of a triangle from 1 side and 2 angles....i think ill measure it instead
06:41 AM jthornton: I need to make a triangle from a square then cut dovetails then make it round
06:54 AM gloops: im just trying to work out the width of cut at the top of a dovetail cutter, at various depths, my mrs will have a look later shes good at maths
06:55 AM jthornton: I cheat and use SW
06:59 AM gloops: i can draw it an measure in an app yeah i suppose, id rather have the theoretical distance to compare with as well though, its not that important anyway
07:00 AM gloops: will only be going through wood from say 10 to 21mm if i had a measurement for each mm increment it would be easier to draw the paths whatever thickness im using
07:57 AM saldot: Does LinuxCNC support "at position" signals from steppers with encoders or servos?
07:59 AM jthornton: what do you mean by at position?
08:00 AM saldot: My motor can send out a at pisition signal. Wondering if i should wire that or not
08:00 AM saldot: jthornton: https://webseite.sorotec.de/download/Technische-Daten/servomotoren/jmc/DS_iHSV57en_180702_Soro.pdf
08:01 AM jthornton: not that I know of, steppers are normally open loop and servos are normally closed by the encoder feedback
08:01 AM jthornton: I don't know of any pin that would use an in position signal from a driver
08:01 AM saldot: On apage 3 is a list of all inputs/outputs on that servo motor. One of thise is a "in position" signal. Never heard of it before but wondering if it might be useful for somereason
08:02 AM saldot: Perhaps so that the controller doesnt send a new move command to the motor before the previous is done i guess...
08:02 AM gregcnc: I don't think that is useful for CNC
08:02 AM saldot: As some sort of servo feedback to the controler.
08:03 AM saldot: I could wire it to a input port on a Mesa 7i76. But if LinuxCNC has no use for it.. that'd be a waste of time.
08:08 AM rmu: saldot: it seems this servo is used like a stepper, from linuxcnc-perspective it is open loop
08:10 AM rmu: saldot: perhaps some kind of supervision of the "in position" pin would not hurt
08:10 AM saldot: Yup. works sort of like a clearpath-SD motor i guess. Servo but only accepts step/dir signals.
08:11 AM rmu: if you have the inputs available i would wire them, just in case
08:11 AM rmu: also the alarm pins
08:11 AM saldot: Yup. Alarm will be wired and i'll wire the position as well than.
08:12 AM gregcnc: Linuxcnc doesn't wait for such a signal. Moves are generated and timed such that they happen as commanded.
08:12 AM saldot: The cable & connectors i'll use have enough leads/pins anyways so.
08:12 AM saldot: Thanks for the help. =)
08:13 AM saldot: gregcnc: and i guess it's possible to configure the acceleration et.c. you've set in the servo so linuxCNC knows when to send the move signals?
08:14 AM rmu: waiting for the signal probably doesn't make much sense, depending on speed and steps/rotation, you will have some following error while moving, the datasheet doesn't really say if one can expect the motor to be "in position" after each "step"
08:14 AM saldot: Wondering because we've replaced the steppers on our laser at the makerspace with clearpath-SD servos and our controller cant handle that.. impossible to get smooth motion since, i guess, the controller doesnt know when to send signals to the servos
08:15 AM rmu: but in case something is strange it sure would not hurt to add it in some halscope plots
08:15 AM gregcnc: you'd have to see exactly how that signal works
08:15 AM gregcnc: how much following error it allows.
08:16 AM gregcnc: there are some drives which err when the motor is out of position by a certain number of encoder steps
08:16 AM rmu: saldot: you have to configure acceleration and speed in linuxcnc such that the servo can follow, you won't have much means to detect a stall, but i expect an alarm is signalled if difference between commanded and real position becomes "large"
08:17 AM saldot: ok!
08:18 AM saldot: So i guess i should set the exact same acceleration in LinuxCNC as i do in the servodrivers?
08:19 AM rmu: I would set values in linuxcnc slightly below max
08:19 AM pcw_home: the servo drivers motion limits should be set higher than linuxCNCs
08:19 AM pcw_home: otherwise the driver will bound the velocity or acceleration and cause a (undetected) following error
08:21 AM saldot: Right. Makes sense. So LinuxCNC doesn't ask the motor to accelerate faster than the driver allows it to
08:42 AM gloops: well, planer works great anyway, one long overdue project down, 2 to go
08:43 AM Jin^eLD: congrats on getting something done, so far my projects spawn faster than I can finish them :P
08:44 AM JT-Shop: did you come up with a better way to sharpen the knives?
08:44 AM gloops: heh, ive got this grim determination with this now - do not start anything else
08:44 AM * Jin^eLD is a master of project creep
08:45 AM JT-Shop: I feel the same way... way too many projects and last night the wife decided she wants me to modify the kitchen cabinets and remove the wine rack and put shelves in
08:46 AM Jin^eLD: luckily mine hates all sorts of reconstruction so I don't have to deal with "off-topic" projects :)
09:23 AM gonzo_- is now known as gonzo_
09:25 AM gonzo_ is now known as gonzo___
09:25 AM gonzo___ is now known as gonzo_
09:28 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10s-first-paid-for-linux-based-distro-20-app-out-now-says-microsoft/
09:30 AM CaptHindsight: "Debian-based distribution"
11:30 AM fragalot: hi
11:55 AM Loetmichel: *MUHAHA* $me just had a real troll behind him on the way home from work. First he accelerates to deny me merging... when i still manage to merge into the highway 20m in front of him and then have to brake HARD to not hit the back end of the usual traffic jam he uses horn and highbeams to express his displeasure... then he drives behind me thru the jam SO close that i couldnt even see his
11:55 AM Loetmichel: window washer jets in the rearview mirror... then he pulls in behind me in the roundabout when the gap wasnt even really big enough for me... as soon as the street got 2 lanes behind the roundabout he accelerates like crazy, overtakes me, and cuts back in so close that i though he must have hit my fender, then accelerates off with 120++kph on a 80kph limit street. 1000m later its 60kph...
11:55 AM Loetmichel: and has a fixed speed trap... the red flash and the sound of screeching tires i saw in the distance was pure sweet karma... would have liked to see his face though ;)
11:58 AM fragalot: both of you sound like dicks in traffic :P
12:00 PM Loetmichel: dick?
12:01 PM Loetmichel: why me?
12:01 PM Loetmichel: for merging into a lane with still 20m room in front of him?
12:02 PM Loetmichel: i wouldnt have merged if he had accelerated a bit faster... i doubt he would have had the braking space then though, because i could already see the end of the traffic jam
12:02 PM jdh: if it was a safe move, you wouldn't have to hit brakes.
12:03 PM Loetmichel: jdh: i knew that i would fit in there or i would have canceled the merge and gone in behind him
12:03 PM Loetmichel: i know how much room my car needs to brake
12:05 PM jdh: heh.
12:06 PM jdh: how about just avoiding the need to brake hard in the first place
12:11 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:15 PM cradek: in some places in the US they will ticket you for improper zippering and I think that should be the rule everywhere. competing for lane placement is dumb, and without a zipper rule it's what always happens.
12:16 PM Loetmichel: cradek: in germany he HAD to let me in
12:17 PM Loetmichel: there is Indeed a rule that merging onto a "bundestrraße" has to be in zipper style in heavy traffic
12:17 PM Loetmichel: him intentionally accelerating to block me while already seeing the end of the jam was in violation of several traffic rules
12:18 PM Loetmichel: and had i seen that i would have not fit in there i would have braked and merged in behind him
12:18 PM Loetmichel: but there was enough room (about 20 m) so i did
12:18 PM CaptHindsight: but me first, don't you understand that yet?
12:19 PM Loetmichel: and then braked to avoid hitting the end of the traffic jam i had in view the entire time
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: ME FIRST
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: you have to say it like a 4 year old
12:21 PM fragalot: lol
12:22 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: and stomp on the ground multiple times?
12:24 PM * Loetmichel should really get that "coal runner" switch for the car. (its a turbocharged diesel, just lie to the ECU that it has way more air than it has and it will push out loads of sooot)... especially for guys like that that tailgate at 80kph with literally inches from my bumper
12:26 PM fragalot: shall I repeat my previous statement?
12:29 PM CaptHindsight: I've had a few people that were behind me crash into the cars in front of me after I changed lanes
12:29 PM CaptHindsight: that were in front of me before I changed lanes
12:30 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: do you have any experience building robotic arms with a mill head, or 500W laser attached to the end of it to machine stainless?
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: big arms no problem
12:31 PM fragalot: reach of 1500mm
12:32 PM fragalot: I need a budget quote on one to make it more clear why I decided to go for that deckel rather than a "modern robotic arm solution"
12:32 PM CaptHindsight: heh
12:33 PM fragalot: they don't believe me when I say that it's not going to happen under 150k
12:33 PM CaptHindsight: big robot yeah
12:33 PM CaptHindsight: go price any big robot
12:34 PM fragalot: one of the issues is that the person making the most noise things that the arm is a better solution because "it could have a camera and magically knows what it needs to do without any instruction"
12:34 PM fragalot: :P
12:35 PM Loetmichel: fragalot: the "do what i want not what i say" programming?
12:35 PM fragalot: Loetmichel: yeah
12:35 PM fragalot: it just knows
12:35 PM fragalot: it's AI
12:36 PM fragalot: industry 4.0
12:36 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: been watching too much TV
12:37 PM CaptHindsight: all this AI talk lately in the news makes it sound like a standard feature
12:37 PM CaptHindsight: of anything
12:37 PM fragalot: yeah it just works
12:38 PM fragalot: magically solves any issue
12:38 PM fragalot: need business logic?
12:38 PM fragalot: AI.
12:38 PM fragalot: need to develop a new product?
12:38 PM fragalot: AI.
12:38 PM fragalot: assembly problems due to lead times?
12:38 PM fragalot: AI!
12:38 PM CaptHindsight: well for many businesses...
12:38 PM CaptHindsight: DMV worker, no problem
12:38 PM fragalot: sure
12:39 PM fragalot: assuming you have a sufficient amount of training data, or an easy to check result, AI can work
12:39 PM fragalot: if you do not have reliable data today, and no real way to check it without human supervision and a LOT of calling around, AI is not going to solve that.
12:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/FANUC-M-900IA-350-6-AXIS-ROBOT-B36947/362107281222 one used with smaller reach
12:41 PM CaptHindsight: oh larger reach 104"
12:41 PM fragalot: less than I expected
12:41 PM CaptHindsight: well used
12:41 PM CaptHindsight: and not very precise for machining
12:41 PM fragalot: yeah
12:42 PM CaptHindsight: Repeatability: (+ / -) 0.011"
12:42 PM fragalot: I mean, we only really need 0.1mm resolution
12:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://motioncontrolsrobotics.com/range-robot-cost/
12:43 PM CaptHindsight: some general pricing
12:44 PM fragalot: sweet, thanks
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: maybe a Chinabot with pot metal arms and stepper motor joints
12:44 PM fragalot: according to "him", china is ahead on robot arms so we should buy it from alibaba
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: hahahaha
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: is this guy an employee or someone from down at the pub?
12:48 PM CaptHindsight: some used pricing
12:48 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.globalrobots.com/
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: some are pretty low but unless it was from a factory that opened and suddenly closed
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: it's likely worn
12:50 PM fragalot: yeah
12:50 PM fragalot: whilst an arm would be neat, and could certainly work for what we need, i'm only really looking at them "because I have to" as in my eyes they make zero sense
12:52 PM fragalot: other than "cool factor" they offer little advantage over the horizontal mill I bought
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: not nearly as rigid until they get really big
12:55 PM fragalot: if we'd go fiber laser that's not that much of an issue
12:55 PM fragalot: but then we can only cover 70% of the products, rather than 90% with the cheaper mill
12:55 PM methods_: we just got a fiber laser
12:55 PM methods_: pretty awesome
12:55 PM methods_: can cut copper and brass now
12:56 PM fragalot: we're considering a flat bed laser with pipe attachment
12:56 PM methods_: etch aluminum
12:56 PM methods_: yeah we were lookin at that too
12:56 PM methods_: but the machine was like 750k
12:56 PM fragalot: methods_: i've heard horror stories from the local laser cutter shop here cutting copper
12:56 PM methods_: without the tube attachment we paid about 400k
12:56 PM fragalot: APPARENTLY, if you are unlucky, it can be a "perfect mirror" and ruin the machine :P
12:56 PM methods_: yeah
12:56 PM methods_: with a co2 you couldn't cut it at all
12:56 PM methods_: even alum could cause a flashback
12:59 PM Loetmichel: methods_: you CAN cut copper with co2
12:59 PM Loetmichel: been there done that
12:59 PM CaptHindsight: methods_: which brand did you end up with?
01:00 PM Loetmichel: you just need to blacken it with soot beforehand and have a pretty high pressure air assist on the laser nozzle
01:00 PM methods_: we got the amada
01:00 PM fragalot: https://imgur.com/gallery/Vx9esK6
01:00 PM Loetmichel: and it STILL sends back quite a reasonable amount of laser into the tube/lens
01:00 PM fragalot: that moment where you vote for the dead guy because he's still better than the alternative?
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: whats amada?
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: nufin
01:00 PM methods_: hahah
01:01 PM methods_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0YwAswpEY
01:01 PM methods_: that laser
01:01 PM CaptHindsight: is fabtech this week?
01:01 PM methods_: https://youtu.be/MK0YwAswpEY?t=61
01:01 PM methods_: yeah
01:01 PM methods_: it's in atl too
01:01 PM methods_: but i'm not going
01:02 PM methods_: 6-8th
01:02 PM methods_: i'm going to try and hit IMTS next year
01:02 PM methods_: maybe bring the wife and make a vacation out of it in chicago
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: 2020
01:03 PM methods_: where is it 2019?
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: they skip the odd years
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.imts.com/
01:04 PM methods_: ahhh
01:04 PM methods_: well 2020 then i guess
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: economy, production is down, 3d printers etc :P
01:04 PM fragalot: lol
01:04 PM fragalot: DEY TEK ER JERBS
01:05 PM methods_: hehe
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: guess we be needin walls round the bots
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: if you follow their logic
01:10 PM fragalot: you kinda need to wall them in ANYWAY :P
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: heh, sounds of a cartoon crash next door, like 100 pipes rolled and fell
01:11 PM fragalot: lol
01:32 PM gloops: Dow Jones Industrial Average (^DJI)
01:32 PM gloops: DJI - DJI Real Time Price. Currency in USD
01:32 PM gloops: Add to watchlist
01:32 PM gloops: 26,081.13+446.12
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: please, no ticker tapes to the IRC screen :p
01:34 PM gloops: its an economic miracle
01:36 PM fragalot: still climbing
01:38 PM fragalot: i've always wondered
01:38 PM fragalot: when they say it's up 1%
01:38 PM fragalot: .. 1% compared to what?
01:39 PM gregcnc: previous day close
01:40 PM fragalot: i see
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: DJI last 50 years
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jones-100-year-historical-chart
01:45 PM fragalot: is that chart adjusted for inflation?
01:45 PM fragalot: never mind
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: your choice ;
01:45 PM fragalot: :P
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: due for another recession soon
01:47 PM gloops: certainly
01:47 PM gloops: what goes up, must come down
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: cept for numbers
01:48 PM fragalot: I'm a big fan of the debt clock
01:48 PM fragalot: especially because it's a scale that doesn't add up
01:48 PM gregcnc: do you have one of your own?
01:48 PM fragalot: people owe more money than there is
01:49 PM fragalot: I do, thankfully that one is going down :D
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: I think that they will push the next recession to 2021
01:49 PM gloops: fiat economy, money is not underwritten by anything real
01:49 PM gloops: just increase the supply, forever
01:49 PM Tom_L: non lcnc but interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRdJrE80Vjk
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: right after the next US election
01:50 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: at which point the next president can either choose to claim the economy at the start of his terms as his own, or blame the previous one
01:50 PM gloops: yeah, Trump will get the second term before he lets it deflate
01:50 PM gregcnc: well I'm sure our new governor will fix things right up, just as good as the last one
01:50 PM gloops: round and round the big wheel goes
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: we need more gambling
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: also marijuana and prostitution to balance the budget
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: that was the long term plan :)
01:52 PM fragalot: :P
01:52 PM fragalot: "hey look at how much crime went down"
01:53 PM Tom_L: yeah everything was legalized
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: well Puritans setting up the rules for things was a idea we tried
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: hasn't worked out too well
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: greed finds a way
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: <spoken in Goldblum voice from Jurassic Park>
01:57 PM Tom_L: mad max is an alternative
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: fragalot: has your land turned into motorcycle gangs and mullets yet?
01:58 PM fragalot: turned into?
01:58 PM fragalot: we invented that
01:58 PM fragalot: (no idea
01:58 PM fragalot: )
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: hah
01:59 PM fragalot: there have been a few big cases regarding motorcycle gangs, but they're the usual suspects
01:59 PM fragalot: forgot what the judges ruling was
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: with all the legal pot and prostitution your country must be a cesspool anarchists
02:01 PM fragalot: that's the netherlands, not belgium
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: what's the difference? :)
02:01 PM fragalot: here pot is "condoned" in some areas, and zero tolerance according to the law in others
02:01 PM fragalot: and i'm not sure about prostitution
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: <-- not really sure where everyone here lives
02:02 PM fragalot: apparently
02:02 PM fragalot: :P
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: how do you think the Germans turned Berlin around, it used to look like Detroit
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.3ders.org/articles/20181107-designer-beer-holthuis-creates-paper-pulp-printer-that-uses-paper-pulp-instead-of-plastic.html
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: cellulose deposition
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-human-os/biomedical/devices/human-corneas-could-be-the-first-mainstream-application-of-bioprinting
02:10 PM * fragalot is going to make a 3D printer that prints using starch and call it a biodegradable materials printer
02:10 PM fragalot: get myself out there on 3ders as if it's amazing
02:10 PM fragalot: heck, I might even go as far as to add dye into a static mixer chamber right before the nozzle
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: pigs will fly first :P
02:12 PM fragalot: pigs can fly. People said that there would be a black president when pigs fly.
02:48 PM jthornton: hola
02:50 PM Tom_L: ok lcnc test box all set up again
02:51 PM jthornton: what are you testing?
02:52 PM Tom_L: nothing now
02:52 PM Tom_L: swapped MB out and had to add a pcie ethernet card
02:52 PM Tom_L: set up a dual boot on it to run cad in windows and preempt on linux
02:53 PM Tom_L: the kid was buggin me to have a cad station he could use
02:59 PM jthornton: I still don't have cad working down here in the beer cave...
03:04 PM XXCoder: jthornton: did you manage to "activate" xp?
03:07 PM XXCoder: oops boeing warning to all 737 MAX owners
03:08 PM XXCoder: they have to fix the software, if use manual pilot, there is error in controlling plane
03:09 PM XXCoder: “The erroneous AOA input can pitch the aircraft’s stabilizing trim down for up to 10 seconds at a time,” said The Air Current.
03:10 PM jthornton: XXCoder: not yet, got busy and had to go to the industrial park
03:12 PM XXCoder: today and next 4 days is all under 50
03:12 PM XXCoder: pretty cool already
03:14 PM jthornton: we start that tomorrow
03:14 PM * jthornton wanders back out to the new shop to get some work done
03:15 PM XXCoder: fun
03:26 PM {HD}: New shop! Fancy.
03:27 PM {HD}: Gotta get new bearings for my tablesaw
03:35 PM XXCoder: doh!
03:35 PM XXCoder: polar votex coming
03:35 PM XXCoder: only west is unaffected
03:36 PM {HD}: Oh man I liked my last polar vortex. I hope I get one later. I hope for a very snowy winter.
03:36 PM JT-Shop: we are getting some pretty cold nights
03:37 PM JT-Shop: yea my heat sinks are here
03:37 PM sync: it has been unusually warm here
03:39 PM XXCoder: this place is almost immune to snows
03:39 PM XXCoder: it almost never snows, and if snows, lasts less than day
03:51 PM Tom_L: snow on the way here supposedly
03:53 PM Tom_L: thursday
03:54 PM Deejay: gn8
04:02 PM JT-Shop: anyone build a scara robot?
04:10 PM JT-Shop: so I ask the clerk at home depot where are the 15 amp 220v single phase receptacle... clerk what's it for... me it doesn't matter I need a 220 volt 15 amp receptacle... clerk is for a welder or what? me it doesn't matter I just need a 220 volt 15 amp receptacle... clerk what color? me it doesn't matter and finally he shows me where they are hiding lol
04:12 PM MarcelineVQ: idk about in general but aorund here a fair bit of aisle clerks are retired tradespeople, wonder if he was making sure you weren't going to burn down the house :X
04:16 PM andypugh: What do you use in the US?
04:17 PM andypugh: DO you get these at all? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309
04:19 PM andypugh: They are widely used for stage power/lighting/audio here, which is a pretty international sort of trade, so I was wondering.
04:19 PM andypugh: They have the curious feature of not being waterproof, but having such long tracking distances that it doesn’t matter if they get wet.
04:21 PM sync: sometimes they will boil the water in them
04:21 PM gregcnc: normal stuff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector
04:23 PM MarcelineVQ: andypugh: had a style similar to that at our welding school, haven't seen it much in general though
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Fshop-: I have a few SCARA's here. Any questions?
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: need plans?
04:23 PM MarcelineVQ: Mostly just due to most stuff I see being hardwired rather thna plugged
04:24 PM JT-Shop: I've only seen those on equipment from europe
04:24 PM JT-Shop: CaptHindsight: yea that would be cool
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: i often have creative answers when I go to Home Depot or similar
04:28 PM andypugh: gregcnc: Looking at that page you appera to have more connector types than strictly necessary?
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: https://www.3ders.org/articles/20140917-flx-arm-low-cost-scara-robotic-arm-for-3d-printing.html
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: the source files are somewhere in the links
04:29 PM JT-Shop: thanks
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.robotdigg.com/product/1041/Open-source-controllable-4-Axis-SCARA-Arm-Robot
04:30 PM JT-Shop: yea I saw that one
04:30 PM JT-Shop: that looks pretty interesting
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: http://www.harmonicdrive.net/products for joints
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: lots of harmonic drives on ebay
05:03 PM jthornton: cool
05:27 PM hazzy: so, did anybody go to FabTech?
05:29 PM hazzy: just got back, i think its the biggest its ever been, by far
05:30 PM hazzy: I only managed to see about 1/4 of it, and I was cruising thru, not talking to any reps or anything
05:57 PM CaptHindsight: hazzy: I've been going to shows on and off for over 30 years...
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: they have grown and shrink over time
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: i find it interesting and the more technical conferences and shows vs just sales booths
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: and/at
06:09 PM gloops: strange phone call
06:09 PM gloops: i picked the phone up and some bloke says 'hey, is that Ted'
06:12 PM Tom_L: answer 'yes' and see where it goes
06:17 PM MarcelineVQ: those tend to lead to scammer pretending to you or "I got the stuff, where do you want to meet?"
06:17 PM MarcelineVQ: *to know you
06:18 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/primus/Cad.png
06:19 PM MarcelineVQ: gonna hob that shaft using an elephant?
06:22 PM gregcnc: andypugh, we have to keep regulators and inspectors busy
06:23 PM andypugh: The EU never managed to settle on one standard. They have been trying for years
06:25 PM andypugh: I think that the problem was that technically the UK plug is clearly superior, but it’s so ugly and so painful to step on in the dark that it wouldn’t be accepted.
06:31 PM Jin^eLD is now known as Jin|away
06:51 PM sync: andypugh: I think a quite big part uses the schuko now
06:52 PM andypugh: But it isn’t a pan-EU standard
06:52 PM andypugh: Italy has a different one, for example
06:53 PM sync: in practice they have it
06:53 PM sync: austria too, poland, the czech republic, and a few others
06:54 PM andypugh: Not Poland, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko
06:54 PM andypugh: Poland appears to be using the French one
06:54 PM sync: which is compatible
06:55 PM sync: there are very few plugs without the grounding prong hole
06:57 PM andypugh: After studying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
06:57 PM andypugh: I think we should all adopt the Danish one, because it looks happy.
07:02 PM sync: :)
07:36 PM Rab: I dunno man, look at this amazing Swiss triplex outlet: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/J_plug_-_1.jpg
07:37 PM andypugh: I did see that, and it is very pretty.
07:38 PM CaptHindsight: i like the UK/Hong Kong plugs
07:39 PM andypugh: They have many good features, such as the shuttered sockets and sleeved plugs
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: you only mistakenly plug your US 120V plus into a Chinese 240V outlet of the same shape once :)
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: plus/plug
07:45 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: https://blog.cablesandkits.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Standard.jpg
07:46 PM CaptHindsight: and then there are the twist and lock as well for cords
07:47 PM andypugh: I suspect that usage is not evenly-distributed
07:47 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.lockingpowercords.com/images/image/nema%20chart(2).jpg
07:48 PM andypugh: So even-more of them.. crazy
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: the second one is generally commercial/industrial
07:49 PM Tom_L: most of those are twistlock right?
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: plus we have power available as wye or delta
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: the second pic is all twist and lock
07:50 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:50 PM CaptHindsight: 120/208 wye vs 120/240 delta for residential
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: commercial/industrial is as above or higher voltage wye or delta
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: residential and farms are mostly single phase 2-pole
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: new high rise residential 3-phase 120/208 wye
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: commercial/industrial is whatever you ask for
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: everything older is typically delta, 80's and later wye
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: https://d12m281ylf13f0.cloudfront.net/images10-2/receptacles.jpg more fun at home
07:59 PM andypugh: You can’t help seeing them as faces, can you?
08:00 PM CaptHindsight: heh, yes and then there are places where you should see them all as faces and other areas where they are put in sideways
08:00 PM CaptHindsight: ungrounded to grounded changeover was in the 19070's
08:01 PM andypugh: UK sockets lose badly at the “looking like a face” metric
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: the Chicago area puts receptacles in sideways
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: slowly changing to the 90 deg from horizontal, ground on top
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.warosu.org/data/diy/img/0006/89/1409352384246.jpg
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: I have a bunch of UK to US style adapters from travel
08:05 PM CaptHindsight: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41gZbyhzJuL._SY355_.jpg
08:06 PM CaptHindsight: yours make it difficult to short while plugged in
08:07 PM andypugh: I have one exactly like that. I don’t _quite_ understand why it allows you to conver UK to UK (but it does)
08:09 PM {HD}: CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/tmpBOXF.jpg
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: {HD}: the UK version goes one step farther by insulating the prongs 1/2 from their ends
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: except for the ground
08:12 PM {HD}: Seems smart
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: we were the canaries
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: lets see what burns down in the US
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: ungrounded outlets, aluminum conductors, etc
08:15 PM andypugh: Some plugs from China also insulate the ground. Which is bad, because the socket ground contacts are a bit further forward, and so sleeved grounds (or “earth” as we call it) might not make contact at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7aa-cJ1ki0
08:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/eIsW_oNLZjM?t=565 didn't know Audi cheaped out on the frames
08:24 PM sync: I think it was their first application of cast+welded chassis pieces
08:24 PM andypugh: I am assuming from one bit of that that “Bob the Builder” made it to the US?
08:26 PM sync: andypugh: because they only need one mould to make the top part
08:26 PM roycroft: one thing that would make us receptacles/plugs a lot safer would be to put switches on the receptacles, like most of the civilised world do
08:26 PM sync: like only the uk?
08:27 PM roycroft: is it only the uk?
08:27 PM andypugh: I am not sure how common switches on the sockets are
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: nah, takes up an extra space :)
08:27 PM sync: yes roycroft
08:27 PM roycroft: i thought it was pretty common outside north america
08:27 PM roycroft: i sit corrected
08:27 PM roycroft: and then i'll say that the uk are leaders in that area :)
08:27 PM sync: yeah, the uk system is pretty ok, although for legacy reasons
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.electronicproducts.com/uploadedImages/Lighting/Research/Switched_Outlets.jpg our solution :)
08:28 PM roycroft: somebody tell gloops i said something good about his country :P
08:28 PM sync: and always lurking for your feet
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: then you plug your 6-way receptacle into that
08:29 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/C8OuWf16jh0/maxresdefault.jpg
08:29 PM roycroft: although the uk allow ring circuits
08:29 PM sync: yes, because they needed to save copper after the war
08:29 PM roycroft: that may have been fine after the war
08:30 PM roycroft: but the war has been over for 70+ years
08:30 PM sync: yes
08:30 PM sync: but why change something that saved copper after the war?
08:30 PM roycroft: because it's scary?
08:30 PM sync: no, the system is aimed at mitigating the issues
08:31 PM sync: also why is it scary?
08:31 PM andypugh: https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/uploads/post-14750-1204104562.jpg
08:31 PM roycroft: we allowed aluminium wiring here in the us for a while
08:31 PM sync: the only thing that can happen is that a wire falls off in the middle
08:31 PM roycroft: now its use is extremely restricted
08:31 PM sync: Al wire is fine tho
08:31 PM andypugh: Not sure what country, but a non-UK switched socket
08:31 PM roycroft: sure, except it's hardly ever installed properly
08:31 PM sync: the GDR ran it almost exclusively
08:31 PM roycroft: and when it's not installed properly it's very dangerous
08:31 PM infornography: Hey, what is a UIO slot?
08:32 PM roycroft: keep in mind
08:32 PM roycroft: this is the usa
08:32 PM roycroft: buildings are hardly ever built properly
08:32 PM sync: maybe in low voltage high current countries, but here it wored ok
08:32 PM sync: ~worked
08:32 PM roycroft: contractors cut corners whenever they can
08:33 PM roycroft: and i'm not talking about working efficiently
08:33 PM roycroft: i'm talking about doing things they should not do if they think they can get away with it
08:34 PM roycroft: i wouldn't want to be a contractor in the uk though
08:34 PM roycroft: it's ridiculous that they have to use low voltage tools on job sites
08:35 PM sync: yeah it is a joke, we had that system for a while
08:35 PM andypugh: Hmm, only outdoors, and that’s not such an issue.
08:35 PM sync: interestingly Al is now found in aircraft
08:35 PM roycroft: yes, andypugh, and a lot of contractors have two sets of tools because of that
08:35 PM roycroft: outside tools and inside tools
08:35 PM sync: andypugh: I have seen people do that insides in the uk
08:36 PM roycroft: and then there's the big step-down transformer they have to lug around
08:36 PM andypugh: All you really need is a transformer, and those are readily available. Even I have one
08:36 PM infornography: The electric company used aluminum to get the power to me, why wouldn't I be able to use aluminum wiring? *thonk*
08:36 PM roycroft: because the power company install the drop safely
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: infornography: the designs for the logs proved to be poor over time
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: logs/lugs
08:37 PM logs: CaptHindsight: today's log: http://irc-logs.kcjengr.com/%23linuxcnc/2018/11/07.html
08:37 PM andypugh: https://www.screwfix.com/p/portable-transformer-with-2-output-sockets-3kva/84144
08:37 PM sync: yeah they are cheap over there
08:37 PM andypugh: Fairly cheap and fairly portable.
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: infornography: they would vibrate loose and get hot
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: fire would follow
08:37 PM sync: ehhhh, 110V center earth?
08:38 PM sync: is it just an auto transformer?
08:39 PM andypugh: Also, they are a centre-tapped transformer too. So power-to-ground is only 55V, and you have to touch both wires to get 110V
08:39 PM sync: https://www.screwfix.com/p/carroll-meynell-portable-step-up-transformer-with-2-output-sockets-3kva/60753 ??????
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: later, off to look into tonight's political dramas
08:40 PM roycroft: the only surprise today is that sessions was fired mid-day and not at 4am when trump woke up to take his morning dump and tweet
08:42 PM andypugh: I was impressed that Trump managed to lose one house and claim a “Big victory”
08:42 PM roycroft: it's his way
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: nothing new there, I'd be shocked to hear any truth from him
08:42 PM andypugh: Yes. What really bugs me is that he only knows one superlative. “Big”.
08:43 PM roycroft: he likes to say "tremendous" a lot
08:43 PM andypugh: Why not a “great” victory? An “epic” victory?
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: they should not place Pelosi as Speaker
08:43 PM roycroft: "big" is a comparative, btw
08:43 PM roycroft: "biggest" is the superlative form
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: just harder to fix later
08:43 PM roycroft: i think it's time she retired as speaker
08:44 PM andypugh: Isn’t “bigger” the comparative?
08:44 PM roycroft: but she's talking about being an "interim" speaker
08:44 PM CaptHindsight: bigly
08:44 PM andypugh: If we are being pedanticer.
08:44 PM roycroft: yeah, sorry
08:44 PM roycroft: "bigger" is the comparative"
08:44 PM roycroft: the democratic party is changing
08:44 PM roycroft: rapidly
08:45 PM roycroft: and while pelosi has been a fine speaker and a fine party leader, it's time for a younger speaker
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: but her ego will swoop in and she'll be reappointed
08:45 PM roycroft: this year, for the first time, there were more millenials eligible to vote than baby boomers
08:45 PM andypugh: I think the Simpsons’ “embiggens” made is into some dictionaraies, along with “cromulent”
08:45 PM roycroft: and she is not a millennial
08:46 PM roycroft: but since she's talking about being an "interim" speaker, i'm more ok with her getting the speakership than i was
08:46 PM roycroft: having an experienced speaker to stand up to the president could be a good thing
08:46 PM roycroft: and if she's really ready to pass the baton in a year or tow, that's fine
08:47 PM MarcelineVQ: "<andypugh> Yes. What really bugs me is that he only knows one superlative. “Big”." "<roycroft> he likes to say "tremendous" a lot" he's more famous for saying huge pronounced "yuge" than either of those
08:47 PM roycroft: you're confusing him with bernie sanders
08:47 PM roycroft: trump rarely says "yuge"
08:48 PM roycroft: bernie says it daily, at least
08:48 PM andypugh: Hmm, OK, so he has a more varied vocablulary than I thought, but note that all of them refer to size rather than quality.
08:48 PM roycroft: the president also likes to say "beautiful" a lot
08:48 PM MarcelineVQ: I don't think that's the case, but I've also no particular stock in the matter so I'm okay with this hehe
08:49 PM roycroft: so yes, he does have a vast and varied vocabulary of dozens, of not hundreds of words
08:49 PM roycroft: but only the best words
08:49 PM MarcelineVQ: :>
08:49 PM andypugh: The very best words
08:49 PM CaptHindsight: my favorite joke about the Dems :but you guys always find a way to mess it up. You’re somehow going to lose by 12 points to a guy named Jeff Pedophile Nazi Doctor.
08:50 PM roycroft: that's one of my biggest problems with democrats
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: this is the real problem, nobody is winning against stupid
08:51 PM MarcelineVQ: My favorite joke about the dems is public opinion. doh ho ho
08:51 PM roycroft: it's fine to be right on the issues and to have a good moral compass
08:51 PM roycroft: but if you're going to be in politics you have to be good at politics too
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: i think we are currently at peak stupid
08:51 PM roycroft: repubicans excel at politics
08:52 PM * roycroft really really needs a new keyboard for his laptop
08:52 PM CaptHindsight: well higher than we have ever been before
08:52 PM andypugh: Anyway, time for me to dip out of a discussion where I have no interest (in the older sense of the word) and little information.
08:52 PM andypugh: Night all
08:52 PM roycroft: ciao
08:52 PM CaptHindsight: how old were you when you first put a wire into a electrical socket?
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: <-- 6, and it was some 24ga phone wire about 12" long
08:53 PM MarcelineVQ: like, a bare stranded because you dind't have a plug?
08:53 PM HighInBC: I watched too many cartoons to do something that dumb
08:54 PM CaptHindsight: like when your older brother hands you 12" of wire :)
08:54 PM CaptHindsight: hmm, time to find out how all this works
08:55 PM CaptHindsight: we used to have real chems in our Chemistry kits on xmas as well
08:56 PM MarcelineVQ: Heck yeah, you could gellify a fish dinner with those sets
08:56 PM HighInBC: a scientist would ask "I wonder if it shocks me every time"
08:56 PM MarcelineVQ: Now it's just a litmus strip and some dirt
08:56 PM HighInBC: https://xkcd.com/242/
08:57 PM CaptHindsight: i tripped the breaker but the insulation melted and I had a thin red line across my palm
08:57 PM MarcelineVQ: a genius: "Will it zap someone else?"
08:57 PM roycroft: yeah, i got some mercury in a chemistry set when i was a kid
08:58 PM roycroft: amongst other things that we know now are pretty scary
08:59 PM R2E4: Hi all
08:59 PM CaptHindsight: me to, used to pour it into my palm to show friends
08:59 PM roycroft: but i remember we used to play with the mercury a lot - it was fun
08:59 PM roycroft: maybe that's what is wrong with me now
08:59 PM CaptHindsight: hehe
08:59 PM R2E4: just updated master and that script came up talking about JA
08:59 PM CaptHindsight: and the amalgam fillings
09:00 PM R2E4: it safe to let it do whatever it is going to do?
09:00 PM roycroft: amalgam fillings are perfectly safe
09:00 PM MarcelineVQ: there's still mercury fillings aren't there?
09:00 PM roycroft: until they get drilled out
09:00 PM roycroft: yes, they're still somewhat commonly used, marcelinevq
09:01 PM CaptHindsight: or you swallow pieces as they deteriorate
09:01 PM R2E4: I have been using master for a while, even went throught the JA stuff updates. Why is iut asking about JA again?
09:01 PM roycroft: i still have a couple amalgam fillings
09:01 PM MarcelineVQ: I didn't get them myself, but then I wasn't presented with the option for mine, whether that's cause the non are more expensive and that's how dentists roll, or what I dunno :>
09:02 PM CaptHindsight: R2E4: what script?
09:02 PM roycroft: last time i had one drilled out they used a dental dam and lots and lots of suction, and the dentist and hygienist wore special masks
09:02 PM roycroft: they did not give me a special mask though
09:02 PM MarcelineVQ: :X
09:02 PM R2E4: you know when we updated to JA it wanted to auto fix your ini? That message came up again.
09:02 PM CaptHindsight: I'm ugly enough, i don't need a mask
09:04 PM R2E4: I just passed through it. Thought it weird that script came up again.
09:04 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/ja/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html#_updating_configuration_files
09:05 PM CaptHindsight: R2E4: as in the dev channel in 12 hours
09:05 PM CaptHindsight: as/ask
09:05 PM R2E4: CaptHindsight: I know, I did that a year ago or so when it came out. I been running master for a couple years. When I went to update tonight, and started Lcnc that old message came up....
09:06 PM R2E4: oops.... oh
09:11 PM R2E4: yeah, just got the info in the forums. Sorry should have looked there first.
09:11 PM R2E4: thanks CaptHindsight
09:59 PM hazzy1 is now known as hazzy