#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 27 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:22 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/e80arVVU8ig
12:26 AM XXCoder: brilliant solution really
12:26 AM XXCoder: and it makes two useable sheets out of one block. zero waste
12:26 AM roycroft: i cannot watch teh youtube for the next week and a half
12:27 AM XXCoder: I always thought it was blade thats wavey but nope
12:33 AM gloops: that machine looks scary
12:33 AM XXCoder: yeah its not something you should touch lol
12:40 AM XXCoder: I wouldnt either
01:11 AM CaptHindsight: takes back the thread per inch counter from {HD}
01:11 AM CaptHindsight: hands him a Twizzler
01:11 AM CaptHindsight: cherry
02:08 AM trentster: Howdy all.
02:10 AM trentster: So, I guess the Chinese 2.2Kw spindles are not really designed to cut aluminium, I am not getting this high pitched noise when I cut in the Y direction, I assume this is spindle bearings. If so, worth replacing bearings or just buying a new spindle?
02:10 AM trentster: Opinions please?
02:16 AM Deejay: moin
02:48 AM Loetmichel: trentster: they are
02:48 AM Loetmichel: whatn machine do you try it on?
02:49 AM trentster: Loetmichel: on my DIY router machine.
02:50 AM trentster: https://monosnap.com/file/euDqn3u9kVg2iGIDtNKkb9EYB2tpyW
02:52 AM Loetmichel: that looks fairly stable and rigid
02:52 AM Loetmichel: what feeds/doc/cutter do you use?
02:52 AM trentster: Yeah for a DIY its pretty solid.
02:53 AM Loetmichel: chattering in one direction and not the other usually means that the frame is not as rigid in that direction than the other
02:53 AM trentster: For Alu generally high rpm and 1single flue cutters
02:53 AM trentster: its not chattering
02:53 AM trentster: its like a high pitched whining noise.
02:53 AM Loetmichel: that usually IS chattering
02:54 AM Loetmichel: just high frequency one
02:54 AM Loetmichel: it could be the bearings but i doubt it
02:54 AM trentster: At first I thought it was my wife (Just kidding) ;)
02:54 AM Loetmichel: i ask about feeds/speeds because i use a smaller 800W spindle on the far less rigid CNC 6040
02:55 AM Loetmichel: ... and i do alu just fine with a 2mm two flute tungsten carbide bit and 120mm/min at 0,15mm DOC
02:55 AM trentster: BTW I have been using this spindle for years on previous machines, first time I have heard this noise is today. That is why I assumed spindle bearings.
02:55 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJfZnqWUgfA
02:56 AM Loetmichel: mine is 6 years old now. but 6 company years with very close to 8 hours a workday use
02:56 AM trentster: Umm let’s say I am slowly cutting a circle, 1mm doc. 60mm diameter circle. Noise happens in both the Y +- direction but not the X. If load stops, and it’s cutting the circle in air, there is no noise.
02:57 AM Loetmichel: define slow
02:57 AM trentster: 360 mm/min
02:58 AM Loetmichel: sounds to slow to me
02:58 AM Loetmichel: especially with such a rigid machine
02:59 AM trentster: Nice video btw. Impressive!
02:59 AM trentster: I normally bore holes in Alu, much less harsh on the endmill
02:59 AM Loetmichel: look at that: ( i need to get a more rigid table for it...) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7eO5cu-fXg
03:00 AM Loetmichel: hexagonal air vents into 1,5mm sheet alu
03:01 AM trentster: I can go faster of course, but I am wondering about the noise from the spindle.
03:01 AM Loetmichel: so far i can only talk well about those spindles, at least the smaller 800W ones
03:01 AM trentster: sound like bearings.
03:01 AM Loetmichel: they are really nice
03:01 AM Loetmichel: and yes, the bearings ARE changeable
03:01 AM Loetmichel: and pretty common ones, too
03:01 AM Loetmichel: (IIRC some standard 7000s)
03:02 AM Loetmichel: 70xx
03:02 AM trentster: 800W I have never used, Ive used 400W and 2.2KW.
03:02 AM trentster: What speeds and feeds and endmill you using for cutting ALu?
03:02 AM Loetmichel: the 400W is usually a DC motor with pressed on ER11 shaft
03:02 AM Loetmichel: thats absolot garbage
03:03 AM trentster: yup, 400W is gabage with ER11 correct
03:03 AM trentster: I assumed 800W was similar.
03:04 AM Loetmichel: i use these endmills: https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Zerspanungswerkzeuge/sorotec-werkzeuge/1-8-werkzeuge/3-175----1-8---Fraeser/2-Schneider-ALU/
03:04 AM trentster: Wow, your machine is really cutting alu like butter. I am seriously imnpressed.
03:04 AM Loetmichel: the 800W is the same construction as the 2.2kw ones, watercooled threephase AC spindles
03:04 AM Loetmichel: just smaller diameter
03:05 AM Loetmichel: and ER11 instead of the ER16(?) in the 2.2kw one
03:05 AM trentster: Do you have a link for the spindle you are using, is it a chinese cheapie?
03:05 AM Loetmichel: i its the one that comes with the CN 6040
03:05 AM trentster: Er20 in the 2.2kw one
03:06 AM trentster: What speeds and feeds you using for cutting ALU in that hole video?
03:07 AM Loetmichel: https://www.ebay.de/itm/0-8KW-ER11-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-MATCHING-1-5KW-INVERTER-DRIVE-VFD-CNC/201647924712?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
03:07 AM Loetmichel: ups
03:07 AM Loetmichel: ah, well, should work the link
03:08 AM Loetmichel: i use 24kRPM, 0,15mm DOC and usually 1200mm/m if full cut (plunging in)
03:09 AM Loetmichel: pockets with half the cutting widht i go up to 1800mm/min
03:09 AM Loetmichel: the cutter and spindle can do more, but the gantry is pretty weak on those 6040 mills so exceeding that would mean it starts chattering/breaking mill bits
03:10 AM Loetmichel: with a 2mm 2 flute TC mill bit thats ground and polished for alu
03:10 AM trentster: what is your acceleration settings per axis on that machine?
03:11 AM Loetmichel: 1500mm/s^2
03:11 AM Loetmichel: on all three
03:12 AM trentster: wow, there is no way I could get that high, my steppers would stall, would need Nema 34's for that
03:12 AM Loetmichel: and about 60mm/s Vmax on x and y, 40mm/s on z
03:12 AM trentster: lol, maybe I should sell my machine and buy a 6040.
03:12 AM Loetmichel: the benefits of less mass
03:13 AM Loetmichel: comes with less rigidity though
03:13 AM Loetmichel: the machine is pretty maxed out though
03:13 AM Loetmichel: any more in amy parameter and it starts doing weird things like stalling
03:14 AM trentster: Would you mind pastebinning your LinuxCNC hal and ini file, I am intrested to compare it to what I am using.
03:14 AM Loetmichel: 6 years of daily use and fine tuning :-)
03:14 AM trentster: Yeah, my gantry and Z axis weighs a lot, no way I can pick it up on my own.
03:15 AM trentster: Loetmichel: sounds like you have perfected every ounce of ability from your machine. Well done!
03:17 AM Loetmichel: I dont know if that are the latest ones... but they should be in the right ballpark... http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=17217
03:18 AM Loetmichel: ah, i just see i have been gone down to 1200mm^2
03:18 AM Loetmichel: still good :-)
03:20 AM trentster: Thanks, having a look now.
03:20 AM trentster: :-)
03:23 AM trentster: Mine are all on 600 for acceleration. I had to drop them.
03:24 AM Loetmichel: now that i look over the configs i remember i had some accel stall problems and downed it a bit
03:24 AM Loetmichel: but i think those were not for the steppers but simpy some EMI from the spindle VFD
03:25 AM Loetmichel: if the retainer ring/nut on the plug of the top is not tightened it tends to put out quite a bit of EMI
03:25 AM Loetmichel: and wreak havok with the stepper drivers
03:26 AM Loetmichel: on my machine at home i even had to put a second layer of shielding around the cable AND some click on-ferrites...
03:27 AM Loetmichel: before: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12506
03:27 AM trentster: I used very thich shielded cable on my VFD and Stepper drives, I never have issues.
03:27 AM Loetmichel: after: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12560
03:27 AM Loetmichel: luckily i work in a company that does military shielding of IT tech ;)
03:28 AM trentster: Nice!
03:29 AM trentster: My cable looks similar to that, with the shielding under transparent plastic.
03:29 AM Loetmichel: thats my home machine btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ov69t0uwo
03:29 AM trentster: I thought the 6040 was your home machine?
03:30 AM Loetmichel: nope, the 6040 is at the company
03:30 AM Loetmichel: it uses the same type of spindle though
03:32 AM trentster: I just subscribed so I don't lose you ;-)
03:35 AM Loetmichel: i used my little home mill for the company for about 3 years until my constant bickering about it not being built for industrial work got the boss to shell out the 2kEur for the 6040
03:35 AM trentster: You using Fusion 360 for your toolpath generation?
03:36 AM Loetmichel: nope
03:36 AM Loetmichel: coreldraw8 and cambam
03:37 AM Loetmichel: 2d
03:37 AM trentster: Oh, yeah CamBam, I remember that. I made my first CNC machine using CamBam.
03:37 AM Loetmichel: it sometimes bites me to use corel because i do a lot of sheet metal work
03:38 AM Loetmichel: bending in the gray matter usually results in making every part 2 times
03:38 AM Loetmichel: :-)
03:38 AM trentster: I haven't touched CorelDraw in at least 15 years tho. ;-)
03:38 AM Loetmichel: i started in version 4 of corel
03:38 AM trentster: Iam going to buy some of your Alu cutters as soon as I have solved this spindle problem.
03:38 AM Loetmichel: by now i am probably faster in that than a pro in f360 ;-)
03:39 AM Loetmichel: 1994 to now is quite a long time
03:40 AM trentster: F360 toolpaths are complicated, there are like a bazillion options, and sometimes it takes half a day just to get the program to do something simple. Those days I miss cambam. But for things like 3D adaptive clearing, I really love it.
03:40 AM Loetmichel: trying to get into MoI now though, our designer reccomends that as a cheap 3d cad and design tool
03:40 AM trentster: Mol?
03:40 AM Loetmichel: Moments of Inspiration
03:41 AM trentster: MOL 4 Fusion360?
03:41 AM Loetmichel: 400 eur CAD/design tool that runs on PC and tablets as well
03:41 AM trentster: I thought MOL was a CAD package I had not heard of.
03:41 AM Loetmichel: simple UI, but pretty powerful
03:42 AM Loetmichel: and not hard on the PC hardware
03:43 AM Loetmichel: http://moi3d.com/
03:43 AM trentster: Oh, it's actually called "moment of inspiration" rotflmao
03:44 AM Loetmichel: benfit over f360 is that its cheap AND our designer uses it so i can go without any training lessons, if i have wuestions i can ask him
03:44 AM trentster: Looks cool
03:45 AM Loetmichel: and 300us$ isnt that expensive for a full 3d cad
03:46 AM trentster: Yeah, but Fusion is pretty cheap too.
03:46 AM trentster: But complex as well.
03:46 AM Loetmichel: (it also isnt cloud based wich is kind of a nono for a company that does military stuff ;)
03:47 AM trentster: Yeah, Cloud = liability
03:47 AM Loetmichel: nah, but some of the stuff we do has an NDA attached to it
03:48 AM trentster: I bet your day job is pretty interesting.
03:49 AM Loetmichel: kind of
03:49 AM Loetmichel: the thing where boss made a few to close deadlines and i am forced to work on saturdays like today kinda isnt so great
03:49 AM Loetmichel: the rest is indeed interesting
03:50 AM Loetmichel: no two days with the same fuckups ;)
03:50 AM trentster: he he, boss sounds like a challenge. ;-)
03:51 AM trentster: What did you build your vacuum table out of?
04:09 AM Loetmichel: Pertinax (tm)
04:09 AM Loetmichel: paper with resin
04:09 AM Loetmichel: dont know the english name
04:15 AM trentster: aaah phenolic
04:15 AM Loetmichel: yes
05:08 AM Li: hey guys what is the best motor torque you suggest for generic purpose 1st cnc machine?
05:12 AM gloops: type of machine?
05:12 AM gloops: like, router, laser, metal milling
05:12 AM Li: router
05:13 AM Li: wood router but would be great if it can be used for metal too
05:13 AM gloops: well, nema 23 probably, 270 oz to 420 oz
05:13 AM gloops: unless this is a big router and you want industrial speeds
05:15 AM gloops: 420 oz motor on my Y axis gives me 5000mm/min with a reasonable depth of cut
05:16 AM gloops: 270 oz on my z works ok, pulling about 20 lbs
05:16 AM Li: gloops: Industrial is my final goal, what you do suggest? start with smaller motors then upgrade as I'm learning or start big?
05:17 AM Li: I was looking for something like 12N.m
05:17 AM gloops: there are some factors to consider, weight - is it aluminium or heavy iron, machine size etc
05:17 AM gloops: oh 12nm will run anything, if you had those in mind get them
05:17 AM Loetmichel: especially the weight of the accelerated masses
05:18 AM Loetmichel: and the "gear ratio" of the ballscrew
05:18 AM gloops: you will be cutting at 600ipm
05:18 AM XXCoder: Li: will you use steel of any kind or some hard metals ?
05:18 AM gloops: but bear in mind, the full power of the motor can only be utilised if the machine is rigid enough
05:19 AM gloops: you also need an appropriate spindle 3kw
05:19 AM Li: XXCoder: I believe should be any metal aluminum or steel
05:19 AM Loetmichel: Li: the usual wood routers are not made for metal. they can do it but not steel (only brass and aluminium) and not THAT fast
05:19 AM SpeedEvil: Hogging off material can sort of use more motor than the machine can handle at normal deflections
05:20 AM Loetmichel: the gantry type routers are usually not rigid enough to cut steel
05:20 AM gloops: yes you cant stick 12nm motors on a toy machine, it will just bend it when cutting
05:20 AM gloops: and stall a baby spindle
05:20 AM Loetmichel: and break the bit because of chatter
05:21 AM Loetmichel: long before the spindle stalls ;)
05:22 AM Li: Loetmichel: what is "chatter"
05:22 AM gloops: it is a fair question though - do you build a starter machine then move up - or just go for the beast first time
05:22 AM XXCoder: chatter: rough cutting of part. looks like "waves"
05:22 AM Li: XXCoder: ok I get it..
05:23 AM jthornton: morning
05:23 AM Li: yes gloops that is exactly what I'm asking here , better to learn from someone who have been through the process before
05:23 AM gloops: when i finished this one i said id never ever build another router, id go for the big one
05:24 AM Loetmichel: li: the bit "bites" into the material, the gantry bends lightly because of that, the bit tuns , releases, the gantry springs back. that causes a "wavy" cut and overloads the bit.
05:25 AM Loetmichel: slightly, turns
05:27 AM Li: do you guys know any good resource for plans on building CNC machine?
05:28 AM Li: or lets say the best cnc machine you suggest for generic purpose
05:28 AM SpeedEvil: Li: What are your aims and budget?
05:28 AM Li: wood and metal
05:29 AM jthornton: what can a poor windoze user use to get on here? hexchat charges for windblows version
05:29 AM gloops: i found these helpful, it is worth studying the design factors http://www.cncroutersource.com/do-it-yourself-CNC-router.html
05:31 AM gloops: you will be amazed how a gantry bends, you can make it with box section steel, you wouldnt believe 15lbs of force could bend that - but it will if the design is wrong, very easily
05:31 AM Loetmichel: indeed
05:31 AM SpeedEvil: models can be useful.
05:31 AM Loetmichel: and on the other hand: even making a gabntry router out of marine plywood CAN be pretty rigid if you do it right
05:31 AM SpeedEvil: If you are not up to the maths.
05:31 AM gloops: yes Loetmichel
05:31 AM XXCoder: jthornton: hexchat should be also free on windows.
05:32 AM SpeedEvil: jthornton: I like quassel.
05:32 AM gloops: shape trumps material
05:32 AM Loetmichel: like that one ;)
05:32 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205
05:32 AM XXCoder: it should be also open source so you can compile a cioopu
05:32 AM XXCoder: copy
05:32 AM jthornton: that's what I thought but he said it was $10
05:32 AM SpeedEvil: gloops: To a degree, for rigidity, less so for stability
05:32 AM jthornton: is quassel easy to setup?
05:32 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11175 <. missing the back plate on the gantry
05:32 AM XXCoder: https://hexchat.github.io/downloads.html you got from this site?
05:32 AM gloops: resonance is another factor yes
05:33 AM gloops: generally heavy = good, light = bad
05:33 AM SpeedEvil: jthornton: Somewhat less easy than a unitary client, but you can then connect into your core from android or apple devices as well, and see a unified scrollback
05:33 AM Loetmichel: gloops: that "wood" has the benefit of being "dead"
05:33 AM Loetmichel: it doesent ring
05:33 AM Loetmichel: even if comperatively light
05:33 AM gloops: absorbs it
05:34 AM Loetmichel: yes
05:34 AM * SpeedEvil hits Loetmichel over the head with a xylophone.
05:34 AM Loetmichel: bad for flood cooling though ;)
05:34 AM Li: gloops: http://www.cncroutersource.com/do-it-yourself-CNC-router.html won't open at my side!
05:34 AM XXCoder: I found windows APP version apparently iy is $10, but you can download free one so doesnt really matter
05:35 AM XXCoder: opens fine here
05:35 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: xylophone bells are not made of laminated wood, especially not of plywood with epoxy as a binder
05:35 AM SpeedEvil: true.
05:35 AM SpeedEvil: (Though 'no' plywood is made of epoxy)
05:36 AM SpeedEvil: The better ply can be slightly resonant - but lots less than decent solid wood.
05:36 AM gloops: http://www.cncroutersource.com/
05:36 AM Loetmichel: "siebdruckplatte" (german term for waterproof plywood) is made of multiple layers of thin wood strips with a 2k binder, not white glue
05:36 AM jthornton: baltic birch is the only plywood over here that is 100% solid
05:37 AM Loetmichel: no idea if thats epoxy or something else but it IS waterproof
05:37 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel: It's not epoxy, it's some more exotic glue. Yes, it's not white glue.
05:37 AM SpeedEvil: It was a nitpick only.
05:38 AM Loetmichel: itsw waterproof enough that a plate that sat a few monts completely submerged in water had about 1" swelling at the sawcuts and was otherwise pretty much unharmed...
05:38 AM Loetmichel: not bad for plywood ;)
05:38 AM SpeedEvil: It would be great if you could get wood plys at the same price as plywood.
05:39 AM Loetmichel: 1" inwards, not 1" in thickness
05:39 AM Loetmichel: ;)
05:40 AM Loetmichel: i like that stuff... its nearly indestructible, doesent react to humidity at all and its easy to work with
05:40 AM Loetmichel: the mill in the pictures had about 1000 5mm by 50mm "spax" screws in it, though ;)
05:40 AM Loetmichel: no glue :-)
05:44 AM jthornton: SpeedEvil: quassel seems easy enough to get up and running, thanks
05:44 AM SpeedEvil: :)
05:45 AM jthornton: now I need to figure out how to have a dual boot on my windows pc with 32 bit on one and 64 bit on the other so I can use my old solidworks
05:50 AM gloops: wont the 32bit run on windows 64?
05:50 AM XXCoder: it should run fine
05:50 AM XXCoder: hough depends maybe it depends on older version of 32 bi library that doesnt work with 64bit version of same
05:51 AM miss0r: some stuff _just_doesn't_work_ on 64 bi.
05:51 AM miss0r: +t
05:51 AM miss0r: :)
05:52 AM miss0r: Even though it *should*
05:52 AM miss0r: I can highly recommend using naticve 32bit environment for that software
05:52 AM XXCoder: jthornton: cant you run 32 bit verson in a vm?
05:52 AM jthornton: gloops: no, solidworks 32bit won't run on a 64bit pc
05:52 AM jthornton: XXCoder: I'd fall asleep trying to draw anything using a vm lol
05:53 AM XXCoder: lol
05:53 AM XXCoder: I got a idea tho
05:53 AM XXCoder: build a 32 bit pc
05:53 AM miss0r: it'll never work with that attitude :P
05:53 AM XXCoder: remote access it when you need that
05:53 AM jthornton: I had a vm on my laptop and hated it so much I installed a dual boot with linux mint
05:54 AM jthornton: hmmm I have a PC for hard drives behind me and I just need to build a 32 bit windblows drive and plug that in as usually it's doing nothing
05:57 AM XXCoder: yeah and you can switch back to orginial use if you need that also
05:57 AM miss0r: I seem to remember owning some harddisk bays.
05:58 AM miss0r: to mount in the 5" slots. Then you could shut down the computer and swap out the bay to another harddrive.
06:03 AM jthornton: I just have the side off and the drives sit on the table lol
06:04 AM miss0r: :D
06:04 AM miss0r: If I recall correctly, I bought these bays because they had little fans in the back, helping keeping my harddrives nice and cold. :)
06:04 AM jthornton: cool
06:04 AM miss0r: But this was some time ago. I think I had a whooping 4.1gb disk in one of them
06:05 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/12x16-coop/pop-door-01.jpg
06:05 AM miss0r: (which was one of the biggest ones I could get at the time.
06:05 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/12x16-coop/pop-door-02.jpg
06:05 AM jthornton: my latest project lol a chicken door
06:06 AM miss0r: looking good. Although; I'm a little sad you did not use a linear actuator.
06:06 AM miss0r: Then the chickens will learn to move out of the way, or get cut in half :P
06:06 AM jthornton: why is that? I do have some...
06:06 AM miss0r: hehe. The reason is; when this stuff gets a little warn & humidity changes the tolerances of the wood;
06:07 AM miss0r: gravity might not suffice to close the door
06:07 AM jthornton: I prefer to spachcock a chicken myself
06:07 AM jthornton: ah I allowed for expansion!
06:07 AM miss0r: and dirt?
06:08 AM jthornton: yep, the bottom is open for dirt and poop to fall out
06:08 AM miss0r: well. everything stops working at some point; using the linear actuator might just prolong the lifespan a little. That is all
06:08 AM miss0r: nice
06:08 AM jthornton: I have one similar in design that has been in service for over a year with no problems
06:08 AM XXCoder: miss0r: can always use wax and such
06:09 AM miss0r: sure :)
06:09 AM XXCoder: we had a old drawer, it used wax for sliding close top
06:09 AM XXCoder: it lasted for long time, just add wax each few years
06:09 AM miss0r: I guess its just me; I've never relied on gravity to do motion for me. I feel it is prone to faliure :)
06:09 AM miss0r: (not gravity ifself, of course, but the motion) :D
06:10 AM jthornton: having enough space so no binding can happen is important for a gravity door
06:11 AM jthornton: and the gearmotor is a 5RPM one so it moves very slowly
06:11 AM miss0r: Indeed :) If you have something that works that is nice. I won't force my ideology on you :]
06:12 AM miss0r: also: doing stuff for your own hen house, does not need to meet the standards for something you would sell to a client living across the country
06:12 AM jthornton: for an industrial solution I would never use gravity
06:12 AM jthornton: exactly
06:12 AM miss0r: well; that is basically all I ever do; hence the ideology :D
06:13 AM miss0r: what is the lid itself made of?
06:13 AM jthornton: I don't even use pneumatic slides if I can avoid it
06:13 AM miss0r: what are pneumatic slides?
06:13 AM jthornton: it's called hardboard a dense pressed board
06:14 AM miss0r: I googled the slides. Yeah, I don't like those either :D
06:14 AM miss0r: so the lid is pretty heavy? :) that helps as well
06:15 AM jthornton: yea, and the space it rides in is basically a free fall with some constraints
06:15 AM miss0r: is it "wood on wood" or do you have some seprate surface in there?
06:16 AM jthornton: it's all wood although I will change the door to aluminum before install probably
06:16 AM XXCoder: miss if theres plenty of space it really dont matter and it will leave gap even in high humid timing
06:17 AM miss0r: XXCoder: Indeed. I'm just curious about the design
06:18 AM jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BAgGpT7GwM
06:18 AM jthornton: that's the original one
06:18 AM miss0r: hehe. I would fall asleep watching that open :D haha
06:18 AM jthornton: yea it moves really slow
06:19 AM miss0r: But it makes sense: the chickens do not get cut in half, and it doesn't scare the living bejesus out of them when it starts to move
06:19 AM jthornton: aye
06:19 AM miss0r: and I don't think they are in such a hurry :D
06:20 AM jthornton: no, when the lights come on and the door opens they do a bit of stretching and preening before hopping down off the roost
06:20 AM Tom_L: jthornton i'm using hexchat on windows... free
06:20 AM jthornton: I wonder if they just started charging...
06:21 AM XXCoder: jthornton: no, its APP thats not free. you can use regular windows program at https://hexchat.github.io/downloads.html tho
06:21 AM jthornton: hmm what was the old one I used to use before hexchat that went commerical
06:21 AM XXCoder: I guess app costs money due to requiring certification or something
06:21 AM Tom_L: xchat
06:21 AM XXCoder: but regular windows program is still free.
06:21 AM jthornton: ah yea
06:21 AM Tom_L: https://hexchat.github.io/downloads.html
06:22 AM Li: is it better to use closed loop motor for cnc?
06:22 AM Tom_L: that looks free to me
06:22 AM jthornton: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/hexchat/9nrrbgttm4j2?rtc=1&activetab=pivot:overviewtab
06:22 AM jthornton: $10
06:22 AM XXCoder: yeah dont use that
06:22 AM Tom_L: there's the problem
06:23 AM XXCoder: use download from link I and Tom_L linked to
06:23 AM Tom_L: microsoft.com/xxxx
06:23 AM jthornton: they both go to the link I posted
06:23 AM jthornton: he is running windblows 10
06:23 AM Tom_L: 32 or 64 bit?\
06:23 AM XXCoder: you clicked first icon windows 10 app
06:23 AM XXCoder: dont click that one
06:23 AM Tom_L: i'll post it if you want
06:24 AM jthornton: will the 7 run on 10?
06:24 AM Tom_L: i dunno
06:24 AM XXCoder: yeah windows is pretty good on backwards compitability. ]
06:24 AM XXCoder: not as good as linux but yeah
06:24 AM Tom_L: maybe until 10 came along...
06:27 AM XXCoder: honestly windows sucks now. I dont know if they will get out of current trend
06:28 AM jthornton: yea all the OS's think that your stupid and can only pick from a few things
06:28 AM Tom_L: they're going cloud based and pay per view
06:29 AM XXCoder: I saw writing on wall with windows 8 so I stayed with 7 for little while and moved to linux
06:29 AM XXCoder: havent regretted since
06:30 AM gloops: ive got 7 on here, old sketchup and stuff runs ok on it
06:30 AM XXCoder: you killed the update to 10 updatenag?
06:30 AM Tom_L: i still run a variety of OSs
06:30 AM gloops: it has got win84 environment i think
06:30 AM jthornton: kinda like the song by Zager And Evans In the Year 2525 except it's happening sooner the lyrics https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nnr5pQpC25/
06:31 AM jthornton: aye I killed any auto updates to windblows and stay with 7
06:31 AM gloops: XXCoder its an old office machine i think, never got updated
06:32 AM Tom_L: phew, i was getting concerned about you there for a min
06:32 AM XXCoder: heh I have vm of winsows 7 that has updates all way to right before win10 nag update
07:01 AM jthornton: hmm my old windblows xp drive won't boot
07:05 AM jthornton: however my old win 7 drive still works and it has solidworks 14 on it!
07:06 AM jthornton: but it's not activated so I'll delete it and put an older version on
07:09 AM jthornton: crap it's a 64bit version
07:10 AM XXCoder: doh
07:20 AM jthornton: hmm both my win 7 dvds are 64 bit
07:28 AM {HD}: jthornton: chicken door is awesome! What does the controller look like? Is it based on time of day or is there a light sensor? How many chickens do you have?
07:34 AM XXCoder: wow finally a video out of mtmwood
07:34 AM XXCoder: no wonder hes been quiet for so long. he set a new and much bigger shop to make cutting boards production
07:35 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxdfD9rBFrI
07:39 AM {HD}: All that for cutting boards...wow
07:41 AM XXCoder: yeah
07:42 AM XXCoder: his biz have been growing pretty well
07:42 AM XXCoder: and shop just got too crowded
07:45 AM jthornton: {HD}: I use a RPi 3 to control the door and astral to know the daily sun times and I have 9 Rhode Island Red hens
07:45 AM XXCoder: this is pretty cool though I dont wanna deal with epoxy
07:45 AM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VXLRbMc9CA
07:51 AM jthornton: and it looks like you can't download win 7 anymore at least I can't find it
07:51 AM {HD}: jthornton: why do you need 2 doors for only 9?
07:53 AM {HD}: jthornton: what is astral? How do you know they are all inside before the door closes?
07:53 AM XXCoder: jt I think you can still order cds at microsft site
07:54 AM XXCoder: $10 or $25 something
07:54 AM XXCoder: unless its gone because long term support is expired also
07:55 AM jthornton: {HD}: the new door is for the shed conversion to a coop
07:55 AM XXCoder: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/confirmation.aspx?id=56485 jthornton
07:55 AM jthornton: chickens can't see in the dark so they go to the roost near sundown or a bit before
07:56 AM {HD}: So you just wait 10-30 mins after sundown and close it?
07:57 AM jthornton: I close the door at dusk each night which is ~30 minutes after sundown
07:58 AM jthornton: XXCoder: I'll give that a try, not sure what it does yet :)
07:59 AM XXCoder: it should download image of windows 7 usb or cd but not too sure also
07:59 AM XXCoder: it says DE though so maybe its germany version
07:59 AM XXCoder: ah! https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7
08:00 AM XXCoder: hopefully you have windows 7 32 bit key as it requires that
08:00 AM jthornton: hmm I have the 64bit key :(
08:02 AM jthornton: {HD}: oh forgot to say what astral is... it gets the sun and moon times for any date you give it
08:03 AM jthornton: my latest program adds light after natural daylight falls below 10 hours up to 14 hours then stops adding extra light
08:03 AM XXCoder: is it specific to 64 bit? some keys is either. mine is either 32 or 64 bit, and indeed, come witg both dvds of 32 and 64 bit.
08:05 AM jthornton: dunno if it is just 64 bit or not
08:05 AM XXCoder: try it out see if you get both or one
08:07 AM jthornton: hmm I have 4.0 GB of data left for the month
08:12 AM XXCoder: yea iso for os tend to be giant download
08:28 AM JT-Shop: now to get the up and down sensors mounted on the door and I'll be set for testing
08:30 AM {HD}: jthornton: adds light? Like lamps?
08:30 AM {HD}: I ddg’ed astral then I started reading about Rahukaalam.
08:38 AM {HD}: So does microstepping make the motor weaker? Should I try to keep the number low or go all the way to 5k microsteps?
08:47 AM {HD}: Also when homing it does the double touch. Well on my Y axis it doesn’t move away far enough to unlatch switch before starting next touch. So I get an “ Home switch active before start of latch moves“
08:47 AM JT-Shop: {HD}: http://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/run/lights-02.jpg
08:48 AM JT-Shop: yes micro stepping is bad for torque, full steps best for speed, some micro steps (10 or so) good for low speed
08:49 AM JT-Shop: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/ini-homing.html#_homing_sequence
08:52 AM {HD}: That looks like a proper coop! Any other animals on the farm?
08:53 AM JT-Shop: just a cat
08:59 AM JT-Shop: miss0r: one of my design goals for the chicken door is that it can be reproduced with simple hand tools
09:15 AM Tom_L: jthornton, you know you can download a 32bit 7 version and use your key
09:17 AM Tom_L: if you can't find it i can post it
09:17 AM Tom_L: not piracy cause it still needs a key
09:28 AM Tom_itx: https://softfamous.com/windows-7-professional-official-iso-image-download/download/
09:28 AM Tom_itx: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7
09:28 AM Tom_L: or get it there
09:29 AM JT-Shop: Tom_itx: thanks, I'll give it a try in the morning, most of the ones I found are a link to 10 not 7 lol
09:30 AM Tom_L: i think i've got iso's for 7 8 & 10 if you need something
09:32 AM Tom_L: NT and DOS if you're desparate :)
09:40 AM Rab: "Shields", "capes", "bones"..."piglets"?? https://www.open-electronics.org/boars-piglet-01-our-newborn-multi-axis-development-board/
09:40 AM jthornton: I have the DOS 6.22 disks lol
09:40 AM Tom_L: same
09:41 AM jthornton: I think it's an upgrade though... I should have XT also around somewhere
09:42 AM Tom_L: i finally tossed my windows 3.1 floppies
09:45 AM Rab: I had Windows95 on floppies...installed it on a 386 w/4MB RAM to see if I could. (It did work, just barely.)
09:47 AM jthornton: I'm pretty sure I still have 3.1 and 95 and NT somewhere in all my crap
09:59 AM {HD}: https://i.imgur.com/26wagnt.jpg my primary workstation
10:00 AM {HD}: Should I keep my limit switches high? Normally closed? Or no?
10:00 AM JT-Shop: wow a commodore 64
10:00 AM {HD}: And an amiga!
10:01 AM JT-Shop: yea limit switches should always use the N/C contacts
10:09 AM miss0r: rab: I also used to all the windows 95 install on floppies :D
10:09 AM miss0r: around 50 ish floppies if I recall correctly :D
10:10 AM miss0r: Actualy, in a few weeks I am hosting a "retro" gaming night for the guys. 6 machines running coaxial network with windows 95 installed. We will be playing Red-Alert, Diablo I, Duke nukem 3D ect.
10:10 AM miss0r: not exactly commodore retro, but somewhat retro nontheless
10:11 AM miss0r: anywho. I need to get going. I have a 65year birthday to attend (30+35) See you
10:19 AM {HD}: Wtf “
10:19 AM {HD}: ”Joint p on limit switch error”
10:19 AM {HD}: S/p/0
10:20 AM JT-Shop: your not playing Doom?
10:24 AM {HD}: I think I got it! Works pretty well with n/c.
10:29 AM Loetmichel: {HD}: accidxentally configured an inverted limit switch on an opn input?
10:30 AM jthornton: {HD}: you should always use N/C for limits as if you use N/O you can never tell if you cut a wire or have a loose connection
10:30 AM Loetmichel: indeed
10:31 AM Loetmichel: miss0r: remember the title of that game on mars in the catacombs playing a rebel?
10:31 AM Loetmichel: graphics was about the tomb raider 1 level
10:31 AM Loetmichel: cant remember the name
10:47 AM {HD}: 👍 got it straight now. What helped alot was backing the home pos off the limit switch.
10:48 AM {HD}: Still need to figure out Z. Seems to go the wrong way...
10:55 AM JT-Shop: {HD}: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/ini-homing.html#_home_search_vel
10:56 AM JT-Shop: lol the answer is in that paragraph but it does not jump out at you :(
10:56 AM JT-Shop: I need to fix that
11:00 AM {HD}: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ yep. Moved home to .125 on each axis and now it works much more consistently.
12:02 PM {HD}: Inverted the dir pin on Z and now everything seems to work like I want it to.
12:14 PM fragalot: hi
01:35 PM JT-Shop: hi
02:05 PM Tom_L: hi
02:09 PM pink_vampire: hi
02:52 PM Tom_L: i wonder what i can use to clean the contaminates off plexiglass so i can reglue it
02:52 PM Tom_L: oil and coolant specifically
02:54 PM Rab: Detergent?
02:54 PM Rab: Even a mild solvent like alcohol could become a problem itself.
03:02 PM Tom_L: there must have been a film of something on it when i did it the first time
03:02 PM Tom_L: generally they fuse together rather well
03:21 PM pink_vampire: alcohol then flame treat
03:55 PM gloops: had a run to lincoln, no machines involved in making this https://ibb.co/ip03OA
03:55 PM Deejay: gn8
03:57 PM Rab: gloops, simple machines? They didn't just eyeball those parabolas.
03:58 PM gloops: hmm, tools yes, machines though - debatable
03:58 PM gloops: 1300s
03:59 PM Rab: Is a pantograph a machine?
03:59 PM gloops: thats a pretty plain bit, some breathtaking stone and wood carving around the building, it is huge
04:00 PM Rab: Yeah, looks spectacular.
04:01 PM gloops: not invented when this was designed/built
04:02 PM gloops: dividers yes
04:14 PM {HD}: If I have my bed set from 0-25 then how come while jogging I can hit -0.0100? Shouldn’t it soft limit me to 0.0?
04:16 PM Loetmichel: {HD}: it should
04:16 PM Loetmichel: but it has to brake
04:16 PM Loetmichel: that can oversot slightly
04:16 PM Loetmichel: especially on low acceleration settings
04:16 PM Loetmichel: +h
04:17 PM {HD}: Loetmichel: oh yes the deceleration...
04:19 PM {HD}: I will tweak some things. .01” isn’t going to crash into anything as I have a .125” stepoff. Just thought it odd.
04:46 PM skunkworks: start of the enclosure..
04:46 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/20181027_163925.jpg
04:46 PM {HD}: Alright I have LCNC dialed. What do you use for cad cam thats foss?
04:48 PM XXCoder: I use freecad and linuxcnc picture to gcode but then I havent seriously gotten nto machining not when my machine cant run with no room atm
04:48 PM XXCoder: there is also some options, like flatcam, inkscape svg to gcode etc
04:48 PM XXCoder: skunkworks: looks good
04:48 PM {HD}: I think I have freecad installed I don’t remember liking it.
04:49 PM XXCoder: was that something like 0.13?
04:49 PM {HD}: Flatcam is great and I use a modified version for my laser pcb etching.
04:49 PM XXCoder: 0.17 is much better version nowdays
04:58 PM {HD}: Ugh! Messed up my z axis somehow...
04:59 PM XXCoder: congats IRC is now 30 years old
05:09 PM roycroft: i just figured out how i can watch youtube between now and election day
05:09 PM roycroft: i use a british vpn, and i get no political ads
05:09 PM {HD}: XXCoder: like today is IRCs birthday or just this year/month?
05:09 PM XXCoder: it seems today
05:11 PM XXCoder: August 1988 "MUT" but first irc server was set short time later
05:12 PM XXCoder: Nov 1988 already spread out across internet
05:12 PM XXCoder: middle of 1989 40 servers and worldwide
05:13 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Where-Wizards-Stay-Up-Late/dp/0684832674/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0/143-3759438-2568466?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=E383YNVACX6KYFC1YRST
05:13 PM XXCoder: efnet 1990 undernet 1992
05:13 PM Tom_L: XXCoder ^^
05:13 PM roycroft: one of our users had a mutt server in our machine room back in the early '90s when i was working for a freenet
05:15 PM roycroft: it was a sun 3/75, irrc
05:15 PM roycroft: iirc, rather
05:15 PM XXCoder: book looks interesting will save for later Tom_L thanks
05:16 PM Tom_L: also look up "Hackers"
05:17 PM XXCoder: 1995 freenode interesting
05:17 PM XXCoder: so freenet was just 2 years old when I first come in
05:17 PM XXCoder: or maybe 3
05:17 PM SpeedEvil: Tom_L: hack theplanet!
05:52 PM CaptHindsight: if you went back in time and told everyone how it's working today what do you think they would do?
05:53 PM MarcelineVQ: Reserve funny usernames
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: oh sorry meant Internet not just IRC
05:56 PM MarcelineVQ: lament that it's so easy to trick people into using a few major services and shift control over what people can say, who can say it, and who gets to see it, into a few hands
05:56 PM MarcelineVQ: But funny user names is a pretty big deal
06:20 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, for the powerSTEP01, the datasheet doesn't seem to have any info at all about thermal dissipation or recommended layout...seen any info along those lines?
06:58 PM {HD}: https://i.imgur.com/exbU3Dl.jpg what does this mean sometimes its a 5
06:59 PM andypugh: It means exactly what it says :-)
07:00 PM andypugh: This is the state machine: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/motion/homing.c#L367
07:01 PM andypugh: And here are the numbers:
07:01 PM andypugh: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/motion/motion.h#L428
07:01 PM andypugh: 7 is “HOME_INITIAL_STATE_WAIT”
07:02 PM andypugh: I _suspect_ that the system is seeing the homing swich change state when the axis is not moving, and is unable to decide what to do in that position.
07:03 PM andypugh: case HOME_INITIAL_SEARCH_WAIT:
07:03 PM andypugh: /* This state is called while the machine is looking for the
07:03 PM andypugh: home switch. It terminates when the switch is found. If
07:03 PM andypugh: the move ends or hits a limit before it finds the switch,
07:03 PM andypugh: the home is aborted. */
07:04 PM andypugh: Actually, it sounds more like it is hitting the limit switch during homing.
07:04 PM {HD}: andypugh: isnt that good? It is supposed to hit the limit switch during homing.
07:05 PM andypugh: Is the limit switch the same switch as the home switch?
07:05 PM {HD}: https://i.imgur.com/i9aZu7h.jpg
07:05 PM andypugh: Does your iNI have LIMIT_IS_SHARED and HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS
07:05 PM {HD}: andypugh: there are no limit switches currently only home and soft limits
07:06 PM andypugh: Are the limits wired in HAL?
07:07 PM {HD}: andypugh: I don’t know what that means. Everything thus far has been set in stepconf.
07:08 PM andypugh: I think it is important that Stepconf writes _your_ HAL file for, but you should feel that you own that file.
07:09 PM andypugh: So have a look in the file, see if axis.N.pos-lim-sw-in and neg-lim-sw-in are connected up.
07:12 PM {HD}: andypugh: those strings are not present in my mill.hal file.
07:13 PM {HD}: According to Find
07:13 PM andypugh: OK, that should mean that they are not linked.
07:14 PM andypugh: Is it possible that the home search s travelling further than the total axis length?
07:16 PM {HD}: andypugh: yes. I did just try to put the home switch outside the soft limits.
07:16 PM {HD}: Seemed to work on the x axis but not the z
07:17 PM andypugh: That isn’t what I was asking.
07:18 PM andypugh: How long is the actual home search move? Hoe does that compare to max_limit - min_limit?
07:18 PM {HD}: andypugh: no. Home search is within a few 8ths of the home switch
07:18 PM andypugh: And what are the axis limits?
07:19 PM andypugh: (No chance the machine is configured in metric with imperial limits?)
07:19 PM {HD}: Of z 0-4”
07:19 PM {HD}: Or rather -4 to 0
07:19 PM andypugh: I am just guessing what might be wrong. I have you a link to the homing code.
07:22 PM andypugh: Clearly this is happening: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/emc/motion/homing.c#L99
07:22 PM andypugh: And that can only be that the home search move is too short to find the switch. Which is why I am wondering if your limits are configured as 0 to -4 mm
07:27 PM {HD}: andypugh: I have a config error. Z has been giving me some trouble. My home switch is at the top of the z axis. And I don’t know whats positive or negative.
07:27 PM andypugh: That doesn’t really explain the problem.
07:28 PM andypugh: Bit 0 should be with the tool max distance from the table and and -4 at the minimum distance
07:28 PM {HD}: The problem is the numbers in my stepconf for Z are all out of order.
07:29 PM {HD}: I guess the confusing part is I normally 0 the bed. So I am working in the +
07:29 PM andypugh: These two things are not incompatible.
07:30 PM andypugh: You don’t normally work in the machine coordinates.
07:31 PM {HD}: https://i.imgur.com/D2xviAI.jpg
07:32 PM {HD}: This appears to at least move the correct direction when I hit hone.
07:32 PM {HD}: Home*
07:33 PM andypugh: I can’t really help you with Stepconf, I have never really used it.
07:33 PM andypugh: Where actually is the home swotch?
07:34 PM {HD}: Home switch is furthest from bed
07:34 PM andypugh: Is it really in the middle of travel? How is the machine meant to know if it needs to moe up or down to find it
07:34 PM {HD}: andypugh: lol
07:34 PM {HD}: That one is a 3
07:35 PM {HD}: I was in the process of changing the # when I took pic.
07:35 PM andypugh: Is the the new maths I have heard of?
07:36 PM andypugh: I would go for table -4 to 0, home switch at 0, home location -0.124
07:36 PM {HD}: I made the numbers smaller for testing so I did not crash into anything physical.
07:36 PM {HD}: andypugh: I will give those values a shot.
07:38 PM {HD}: andypugh: did you mean to swap the last 2 values?
07:38 PM {HD}: Switch at .125 and home loc @ 0
07:38 PM andypugh: I don’t think so, but I am unclear how Stepconf numbers map to INI file values.
07:42 PM {HD}: andypugh: I have positive results! Thanks for the data.
07:46 PM andypugh: Glad you got it working, and now it is time for me to sleep.
08:21 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsMyMmliuso
08:21 PM XXCoder: earth's vibrating dilio
08:22 PM XXCoder: looks like game from "brown is realistic" era
09:24 PM {HD}: Crap! Need a 10-32 set screw! I have 10-24, 9-32 and 8-32 but not what I need. Ugh and everything is closes now too.
09:26 PM XXCoder: lol if you are missing exactly one size, its that size that you need. always.
09:27 PM {HD}: flyback: how long do those brushes last? Whats the red liquid in that sight vial?
09:27 PM {HD}: XXCoder: seems that way..
09:27 PM {HD}: Guess its time to eat cake instead of working.
09:34 PM XXCoder: cake is a lie
09:45 PM {HD}: 👍
09:45 PM XXCoder: 🎂
09:47 PM MarcelineVQ: 🅱ake
09:47 PM XXCoder: uhoh hostage demend mail, made from stuff cut out of magazine or soemthing
09:48 PM XXCoder: c̴͖͖̫̰͎͚̥̥̱̱̪͍͑̓̎ͤͨͦͩ̉́̀̚͢ͅa͗͂͑͆̃̊̓͆̒ͣ̿̒͞҉̷̡͓͇̟͜ḵ̵̛̞͉̤͙̗̜͎͕̥̜͇̹̭̖̰̖̭̔̎͆͐̂͂̾̀̕ë̡̻͍͍̦̻̹̤̯̳̖͚̀̆͛͗̒̌͑̈ͫ͝
09:49 PM MarcelineVQ: w̴̠h̬ͅa̝̭͎̖̙̯͡t̪͎̖͟ ͚̫̼h̝͙͍̘̣a̤̤v̮̻͖e̶ ͓͜y̷̩̲o̪u̦̘̘̥̘̪ͅ ̙̟d̶̙̺o͉̞͠n̤̲͘e?̹͎̩̘
09:49 PM XXCoder: poor people with no unicode support
09:52 PM XXCoder: ˙llɐ sǝlnɹ ǝpoɔᴉun ǝɥ┴
09:53 PM MarcelineVQ: ⓣⓐⓚⓔ ⓘⓣ ⓔⓐⓢⓨ ⓢⓞⓝ
09:53 PM XXCoder: lol
09:53 PM MarcelineVQ: (っ◔◡◔)っ
09:53 PM XXCoder: one more to test something
09:53 PM XXCoder: ǝ̜̱̟̜̬͢p̱o̡͓̩̮̙͙̹ɔ͉̯̼͖͈̥̻ᴉ҉͖̖͔͔̱u҉̥̙̹∩̨̹̥̞̤
09:54 PM XXCoder: fancy heh
09:54 PM MarcelineVQ: hit all the checkmarks on your generator :>
09:54 PM XXCoder: already did with cake word one earlier
10:19 PM {HD}: Silly
10:20 PM XXCoder: yep
11:57 PM flyback: <flyback> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrtomtpDv2g
11:57 PM flyback: <flyback> set it up early this year