#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 22 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:14 AM Deejay: moin
05:15 AM jthornton: morning
05:17 AM Tom_L: morning
05:18 AM MarcelineVQ: Tried to make caramel popcorn today, ended up with popcorn brittle <_<
05:19 AM MarcelineVQ: Not a loss but not a win, normal day.
05:20 AM Tom_L: 48°F Hi 72
05:21 AM jthornton: 34°F high 64°F
05:21 AM jthornton: frost killed all my raised bed plants yesterday
05:22 AM MarcelineVQ: What were you growing?
05:22 AM jthornton: turnips is the only thing growing now :)
05:23 AM MarcelineVQ: hehe nice, beets here
05:23 AM MarcelineVQ: beats and butternut squash are all that's finishing up out there
05:24 AM MarcelineVQ: with garlic in the ground for next season, home grown hard-neck garlic is so worth it
05:24 AM jthornton: I was growing several types of tomatoes, cucumber, and a sweet potato... dang zucchini didn't do anything but flower a lot
05:25 AM jthornton: I'm in zone 7a where are you located at?
05:25 AM MarcelineVQ: sounds like we do similar gardens
05:26 AM MarcelineVQ: No one's ever asked me that before, let me find out
05:27 AM MarcelineVQ: 8b-ish
05:27 AM jthornton: I have a large one but need to get deer fence up it's about 2,500 square feet or so and very late this year I built a raised bed next to the carport
05:27 AM MarcelineVQ: Broccoli did very well here this year
05:28 AM MarcelineVQ: We put higher deer fence this year that we have had before and the deer decided to go under it instead, the vermin
05:28 AM MarcelineVQ: Ate all our pod-beans
05:29 AM jthornton: add a hot wire, you need it for climbers anyway
05:30 AM MarcelineVQ: It's just small enough a garden that that's a hassle, we've just weighted the bottom of the net for now hehe
05:30 AM MarcelineVQ: As far as non-insect animals go we don't have much in the way of pests here, so far
05:31 AM MarcelineVQ: The racoons don't seem to realize the garden is food, and the rats seem attracted to our traps
05:32 AM jthornton: I have some wood rats that like to eat my truck wiring but I've failed to catch them with every trap I can think of even a few I borrowed from the university of Il lol
05:32 AM MarcelineVQ: Just put in automatic watering this year, man is that nice
05:32 AM jthornton: aye I put one on the raised bed but my faucet water is a bit silty so I had to put a filter before it
05:33 AM jthornton: how often did you water?
05:33 AM MarcelineVQ: pretty much every morning, and often a little before sundown as well
05:34 AM MarcelineVQ: It's much nicer to have more consistent watering now, especially since it's less effort on top
05:34 AM jthornton: I set mine for 15 minutes every 4 hours for the raised bed
05:34 AM MarcelineVQ: this is the kind of rodent trap we use, in mouse and rat size https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41IEBe3ApqL.jpg not this image exactly but that style of trap
05:35 AM jthornton: yea I have a few of those for mice
05:35 AM jthornton: https://www.amazon.com/Victor-Metal-Pedal-Rat-Trap/dp/B00004RAMW
05:36 AM MarcelineVQ: ehe classic but I've never found those especially effective for the rodents here
05:36 AM MarcelineVQ: I think this house has some victors in the rafters come to think of it
05:37 AM MarcelineVQ: What kind of watering is your setup?
05:37 AM jthornton: I have a dozen sorta like this one but no holes http://pestcontrolshop.co.za/images/MRT-1.jpg
05:38 AM jthornton: it's a hmmm forget the brand let me look
05:38 AM MarcelineVQ: I just mean the style, like drip or soaker hose, etc
05:38 AM jthornton: oh I put these little sprinkler heads that cover like 1 sq foot or so
05:39 AM MarcelineVQ: We used soaker-hosed buried a few inches down, with the idea being that the plants roots would be more inclined to seek downwards.
05:39 AM MarcelineVQ: Worked quite well, but I can tell by the lawn growth that much water was wasted so we're gonna try having them near the surface next year so the water has more time to get trapped in the soil instead of leaving right into the lawn.
05:40 AM MarcelineVQ: You tend to get more leaf disease by watering top-down which was another reason we wanted to try a buried hose
05:41 AM jthornton: leaves turning black or something?
05:42 AM XXCoder: hey jthornton
05:42 AM MarcelineVQ: Soemtimes, depends on the plant, but typically it'll be some fungus.
05:42 AM Tom_L: not watering too much are you?
05:42 AM XXCoder: MarcelineVQ: didnt know that. interesting
05:42 AM jthornton: I have some stuff I spray for any fungus and it just kills it for the year
05:42 AM MarcelineVQ: Gardens sure can tell the difference between being watered and being rained on though, the beets go nuts (in a good way) after a good rain here
05:42 AM jthornton: hey XXCoder
05:43 AM jthornton: ah yea it was rain bird stuff I used
05:43 AM Tom_L: i put cucumbers in cages like tomatoes, seem to do alot better
05:43 AM Tom_L: let them hang instead of on the ground
05:43 AM jthornton: cages?
05:43 AM MarcelineVQ: jthornton: virkon?
05:43 AM Tom_L: wire fence
05:44 AM MarcelineVQ: We made a tressle for the tomatos and cucumbers and squash to climb
05:44 AM MarcelineVQ: trellis?
05:44 AM MarcelineVQ: I mix those two up
05:44 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/house/house.jpg
05:44 AM Tom_L: old pic
05:44 AM MarcelineVQ: yeah trellis
05:45 AM Tom_L: kids toys are cad cam now if that tells
05:45 AM jthornton: ah yea I have a cattle panel trelles for the cucumbers and zucchini
05:46 AM Tom_L: i made mine different diameters for storage
05:46 AM jthornton: have you guys bought seeds from Baker Seeds?
05:46 AM Tom_L: i haven't had a garden in a while now but no
05:47 AM jthornton: https://www.rareseeds.com/
05:47 AM jthornton: you can get a free catalog
05:47 AM MarcelineVQ: Not directly, can't rule out being sold them under a different name though
05:47 AM Tom_L: my old neighbor used to get all sorts of stuff mail order
05:47 AM Tom_L: not sure where she got them
05:47 AM jthornton: they are here in Missouri
05:48 AM jthornton: the Cherokee Purple tomatoes are really good
05:49 AM Tom_L: she used to do the whole yard in garden and always had something in it she ordered
05:49 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/garden/garden-2016-01.jpg
05:49 AM jthornton: that's the big garden
05:49 AM Tom_L: you've got alot more space
05:50 AM Tom_L: do the trees affect what grows good?
05:50 AM jthornton: not too many trees on the east side so it gets full sun up till the afternoon
05:50 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/garden/garden-2016-03.jpg
05:51 AM jthornton: that was a lot of work spreading compost
05:51 AM MarcelineVQ: Goddamn, wish I had a tiller like that
05:51 AM jthornton: http://gnipsel.com/images/garden/garden-2016-05.jpg
05:51 AM jthornton: that was a huge waste of time and money... didn't read the package well on the weed blocker
05:51 AM jthornton: not uv resistant lol
05:52 AM Tom_L: i put grass clippings down for weed control
05:52 AM jthornton: as a mat on top?
05:52 AM Tom_L: yeah
05:53 AM jthornton: I don't have enough grass lol, I just have trails through the woods mostly and that one open spot where the garden is
05:53 AM MarcelineVQ: We tried alfalfa for that, easy to get, nutrictious, worked fairly well but did tend to attract slug
05:53 AM * jthornton wonders why we didn't have this conversation last spring lol
05:53 AM Tom_L: yeah that works too
05:54 AM Tom_L: i put a little alfalfa around the potatoe cuttings in the hole as well
05:54 AM Tom_L: shake them in a bag of sulfur first to keep them from rotting
05:56 AM MarcelineVQ: I gotta look up how to grow potatoes well come to think of it, we had an okay crop this year, certainly enough to eat all winter. But it wasn't really worth the resources they used, so if I could get away with the same yeild on less plants it'd be great
05:57 AM MarcelineVQ: Need to make friends with an irishman
05:58 AM jthornton: they grow potatoes east of me in the flat ground area of the old mississippi flood plains
05:58 AM Tom_L: did horse radish one year. alot sweeter than store bought
05:58 AM jthornton: they need a soft soil I think
05:58 AM MarcelineVQ: Even bad garden grown beats good store bought
05:58 AM Tom_L: i put them in mounds
05:59 AM Tom_L: helps keep the soil from packing in too much
05:59 AM MarcelineVQ: We had plenty of top-growth, and it was deep soil, something about the nutrition balance was likely off. But I'm not sure what, I've seen people grow potatos in pure horseshit and that's just nitrogen :(
05:59 AM XXCoder: dont pototoes like poor soil?
06:00 AM XXCoder: or was it some other plant
06:00 AM Tom_L: mine did ok
06:00 AM jthornton: dunno what kind of soil is in Idaho lol
06:00 AM Tom_L: one year i had well over 200 cucumbers off 6 cages
06:01 AM Tom_L: never could grow carrots
06:02 AM XXCoder: nice. too bad on carrots
06:10 AM merkatorix: To measure the tool height: Can I just screw a microswitch somewhere, programm linuxcnc, so it knows the position and then linuxcnc can first home itself and then measure the length of the tool automatically?
06:13 AM XXCoder: theres few schemes that do that
06:14 AM XXCoder: theres one that use laser for rough measurement then use touchpad for more accurate measurement. in video it then rapids right to top of vise. scary.
06:14 AM miss0r: merkatorix: The problem is the inacuracy of the microswitch
06:16 AM miss0r: i.e. The repeatability is not very good in such a contact
06:17 AM merkatorix: Should I just buy such a tool-length Sensor? https://shop.stepcraft-systems.com/media/image/product/84/lg/werkzeuglaengensensor.jpg
06:18 AM miss0r: Depending on the build quality those can be realy good. Also used in mid-high end systems(the very well build ones)
06:18 AM miss0r: But sure. That should easily land you with a repeatability of a few 1/100mm
06:18 AM merkatorix: That one costs 40€
06:19 AM miss0r: Price is not the best test to see if something is build crappy. But it is a good indicator. Depending on what you want to do, that thing might be alright
06:21 AM miss0r: Back to the mill. I have a new bushing to do. bbl
06:22 AM XXCoder: I hate searching for cnc stuff on google
06:22 AM XXCoder: it brings so many buy buy stuff that its impossible to find good pages
06:33 AM jthornton: yea so much crap now a days in a search lol I tried to find a fajitas marinade recipe the other day and all the hits were a zillion photos like one with a knife near a tomato one with the knife slicing the tomato lol
06:34 AM XXCoder: lol
06:34 AM XXCoder: tried direct yt search. failed
06:34 AM XXCoder: video is bit old
06:34 AM XXCoder: also very very scary at end lol
06:36 AM jthornton: gotta keep an eye on the clock had an egg laid from the roost yesterday so need to be Johnny on the spot to scoop it up if I have one today
06:47 AM XXCoder: fun
06:51 AM rmu: merkatorix: i know that thing, internally, it is a microswitch
06:51 AM rmu: but i don't have data on repeatability, i only use it to get a ballpark-figure that needs to be withing +0.2mm
06:51 AM rmu: +-
06:55 AM Jin^eLD: hi
06:58 AM * Loetmichel thinks that doesent look even half bad for first time printing PETG... and no stringing... consider me surprised... -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9Y9BMxb7M
06:59 AM XXCoder: that is quite decent
07:00 AM jthornton: I like your cooling fan for the hot end
07:02 AM Jin^eLD: so, to come back to my machine CB story... turned out it was the relay, it was too weak to trigger the on/off mechanism; the actual CB works, but its an old model so can't buy a new relay for it; good news is that the machine itself works :)
07:04 AM jthornton: XXCoder: I got the light code consolidated yesterday and this is the output https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wysQG3XDGC/
07:05 AM XXCoder: looking
07:05 AM jthornton: and the code https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/bpktzhzWwK/
07:06 AM jthornton: reduced it down to 3 tests to see what part of the year I'm in
07:06 AM XXCoder: 13.13 total light
07:06 AM XXCoder: nice
07:07 AM XXCoder: seems it works fine
07:07 AM jthornton: yea I'm happy with it
07:07 AM jthornton: I just need my gear motor from china to show up so I can build a new door and test it
07:09 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: thats stock on the Anet A8
07:09 AM Loetmichel: or did you mean the nozzle for the part cooling fan?
07:10 AM jthornton: the fan on the right side that cools the printed part
07:10 AM Loetmichel: thats the part cooling fan
07:10 AM Loetmichel: the extruder fan is on the left
07:10 AM Loetmichel: and its stock, too, just a printed nozzle on it
07:11 AM Loetmichel: (and i need to get such a "silicone sock" for the hotend, because the heater struggles to maintain 230°c when the part cooling fan spins up after the second layer
07:22 AM miss0r: I just turned 5 of 7 bronce bushings I'm doing here. AND NOW I realize I misread a number. !
07:22 AM miss0r: Back to square one
07:25 AM miss0r: also, while I am ranting; How come I do not have a 16mm reamer?! I am boring these out :)
07:25 AM miss0r: bah!
07:43 AM flyback: <miss0r> I just turned 5 of 7 bronce bushings I'm doing here. AND NOW I realize I misread a number. !
07:43 AM flyback: <miss0r> Back to square one
07:43 AM flyback: *CANUCKED*
07:43 AM * flyback rubs rue_mohr against miss0r's failed project
07:44 AM flyback: na seriously that sucks:(
07:44 AM flyback: I worked for a circuit assembly company a few months and I put in the wrong resisotor wheel
07:44 AM gregcnc: read print twice, cut once?
07:45 AM flyback: guy had to redo 768 parts by hand
07:45 AM flyback: I quit
07:45 AM flyback: was a good decision now that I look back
07:45 AM flyback: cause my mind has deteriated to the point I am too absent minded for doing realtime like that
07:46 AM flyback: but fine for IT work
07:46 AM flyback: miss0r, that's neat shit btw
07:46 AM flyback: I never knew people use lathes etc for old parts as well as new feedstock
07:47 AM flyback: regrinding old drive shafts, cranks, etc to refurb them
07:47 AM gregcnc: sometimes people even use lathes to rework parts they just made new
07:47 AM flyback: hehehe yeah it's called "oops"
07:49 AM flyback: but it's neat watching them save a $40,000 packard cam shaft by shaving off the rot
07:49 AM flyback: unfortunitely the idiots in shipping dropped it
07:49 AM flyback: being cast iron instant shatter
07:50 AM miss0r: Yeah, it sucks :)
07:50 AM miss0r: First 'real' one is complete now
07:51 AM miss0r: flyback: I do alot of bushings'n regrind & repair work in my shop.
07:51 AM flyback: cool
07:51 AM flyback: much respect
07:51 AM miss0r: Mostly for the machines I repair at clients, but also the odd job walks in the door from time to time
07:51 AM miss0r: Thanks, though; I'm not sure I deserve it ;)
07:51 AM flyback: yeha you do
07:52 AM flyback: being able to save machines like that is a magical art :)
07:52 AM miss0r: I am known for having magical gell in my pockets.
07:52 AM miss0r: :)
07:53 AM miss0r: One day I hope to be as great as the realy good ones doing this stuff
07:53 AM flyback: I watched this auto show where they diamond cut these bmw rims
07:54 AM flyback: I thin it costy them $100/each but new rims were like $500 each
07:54 AM miss0r: nice :]
07:54 AM flyback: so they saved them by just grind off the top layer of rot
07:54 AM miss0r: I used to do alot of spare parts for the veteran car club down the road. but I haven't seen much of that stuff since they closed down
07:55 AM miss0r: I love stuff like that
07:55 AM miss0r: I guess my buisness boils down to; love of old iron
07:55 AM flyback: cool
07:56 AM flyback: have you seen the people who cnc wood bearings
07:56 AM miss0r: Once in a while I do a repair on a modern CNC machine, but 90% of what I do are on manual or semi automatic machines from 1941 to 1982 :)
07:56 AM flyback: using this special wood that doesn't rot in water and forms it's own lube
07:56 AM miss0r: I have not
07:56 AM miss0r: Interresting
07:56 AM flyback: used for some hydro plants
07:56 AM miss0r: You wouldn't happen to have a youtube link or something? :)
07:57 AM flyback: lignum vitae bearings
07:57 AM flyback: yes
07:57 AM flyback: gettying them now
07:57 AM flyback: bear with me
07:57 AM flyback: Client: HexChat 2.14.1 • OS: Ubuntu "bionic" 18.04 • CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) XP Processor 3000+ (1.60GHz) • Memory: Physical: 1.4 GiB Total (864.8 MiB Free) Swap: 2.6 GiB Total (2.5 GiB Free) • Storage: 13.9 GB / 153.4 GB (139.5 GB Free) • VGA: NVIDIA Corporation NV17M [GeForce4 420 Go 32M] @ NVIDIA Corporation nForce3 Host Bridge • Uptime: 5d 9h 41m 18s
07:57 AM flyback: it's very slow my main systems are all packed for moving
07:58 AM miss0r: I'll wait :] I am doing measurements on the worn out bearing plate as we speak. I need to bore it for the bushing
07:58 AM flyback: https://www.hydroworld.com/articles/hr/print/volume-32/issue-4/cover-story/bearings---seals--wood-makes-a-comeback-for-hydroelectric-turbin.html
07:59 AM miss0r: o.0
08:00 AM miss0r: Very nice :] Sadly I don't have any hydroplant clients :) But I will read this entire article later. :) I find this stuff quite interresting
08:03 AM flyback: very expensive wood but the shit will just run 50 yrs or more without issue
08:04 AM miss0r: quite worth the cost, one would think :)
08:04 AM flyback: needs water though so other apps it would not be ideal
08:05 AM flyback: https://www.frenchriverland.com/
08:05 AM flyback: these guys refurb abandoned hydroplants
08:05 AM flyback: or salvage turbines etc
08:05 AM flyback: they do tons of cnc work to fix them
08:05 AM miss0r: abandoned hydroplants :D haha
08:05 AM flyback: they obtained this giant boring mill
08:05 AM flyback: I mean the thing is huge like small garage
08:06 AM flyback: they had to break it down into pieces etc but it was worth it
08:06 AM flyback: cause it can work giant prop shafts
08:06 AM miss0r: I'm thinking: shouldn't this bearing/seal also apply to ships?
08:06 AM flyback: they do
08:06 AM flyback: :)
08:07 AM miss0r: I wouldn't mind having to do a little work for them :) That looks realy cool
08:08 AM flyback: miss0r, http://www.cantierenoe.it/_eng/workings/
08:10 AM miss0r: damn. Now; doing stuff like that requires a phat wallet
08:10 AM flyback: https://www.core77.com/posts/25224/lignum-vitae-wood-so-bad-ass-its-used-to-make-shaft-bearings-for-nuclear-submarines-and-more-25224
08:10 AM flyback: yeah it's not cheap but for some apps it's worth it
08:15 AM miss0r: I should get some :D Just in case I need to repair a boat screw bearing again :D
08:15 AM miss0r: hehe
08:15 AM flyback: it's just weird to see a steel shaft rideing in a block of wood
08:15 AM flyback: but it works fine in apps with water
08:15 AM miss0r: Indeed :)
08:15 AM miss0r: I mainly do steel :D
08:15 AM miss0r: it VERY RARE that I do anything that has to do with water.
08:15 AM miss0r: most of my stuff is covered in hydraulics
08:17 AM flyback: nothing wrong with steel etc
08:17 AM flyback: I wasn't suggesting otherwise
08:17 AM miss0r: I know :) I was just dreaming of using the wood solution :)
08:17 AM flyback: like I said the wood bearings are strictly for submerged water apps
08:17 AM miss0r: Basically just shot down my own dreams out loud
08:18 AM miss0r: But I will keep it in mind, for sure :D That is one of those things that can make people drow their jaws, like I just did
08:19 AM flyback: do you get to do any fluid bearing stuff?
08:20 AM miss0r: some
08:20 AM flyback: basically sleeve bearings that form a hydrolyric layer with oil
08:20 AM flyback: cool
08:20 AM miss0r: but with most of them, they are readily available for purchase.
08:21 AM miss0r: I realy only do the parts that are not sold anymore. I could never compete with a modern serial production
08:21 AM flyback: oh I think there will always be times where people like you are needed
08:21 AM flyback: even with ready made parts, might need adjustment to compensate for damage on a systyem
08:21 AM flyback: warpage etc
08:21 AM miss0r: I hope so :) This is my full time job now
08:21 AM flyback: or needing to mod a ready made part to work in another unit
08:22 AM miss0r: I've been doing small repairs & projects since 2014(started my company there). I've only been doing this fulltime since march of this spring
08:22 AM flyback: cool
08:23 AM miss0r: Sure :) I love it. Ans so far, clients with work have not been an issue. I just hope it lasts :D
08:24 AM flyback: any particular machine you repair the most?
08:24 AM flyback: engines? mills? etc?
08:25 AM miss0r: Mostly gear cutters, hobbers & grinders.
08:25 AM flyback: cool!
08:25 AM miss0r: Also alot of milling machines & boring mills
08:25 AM miss0r: & also alot of lathe work
08:25 AM flyback: oh you will defintely like this link hang on
08:26 AM flyback: bah the page is no more
08:26 AM miss0r: sad :-/
08:26 AM Glorfindel: check the wayback machine?
08:27 AM flyback: how do I check that
08:28 AM flyback: http://picasaweb.google.com/frenchriverland/NilesBoringMillRebuild?authkey=Gv1sRgCJzpsZ_soJGCIw#
08:28 AM flyback: dead link
08:29 AM miss0r: :-/
08:29 AM miss0r: This stuff happens all of the time, sadly.
08:29 AM miss0r: Alot of the 'old' interresting stuff is going away, as noone cares for keeping it afloat
08:31 AM flyback: I know they went out of their way to get that old mill
08:31 AM Glorfindel: flyback: web.archive.org
08:31 AM miss0r: Damn this bore is mangled... I hope I can find a good center :S
08:31 AM Glorfindel: they don't have it though :(
08:33 AM flyback: it was all beat up and huge and had to be broken into pieces for transport
08:33 AM flyback: and they had to rehab it
08:33 AM flyback: but it was worth it I guess
08:34 AM flyback: cause it can do large pieces at once
08:37 AM miss0r: yeah :) I service a large boring mill. It is 12meters long 8 meters high and has a boring reach of 2.75 meters
08:37 AM miss0r: I had to do ALOT of work on it, as the owner also bought it for next to nothing, and it was in bad shape.
08:38 AM miss0r: it is still not great, though. I need to replace two clutches before I can call the job complete, but the mill is too busy working on a large order at the moment
08:40 AM flyback: cool
08:40 AM flyback: must be cool to get something working like that again
08:41 AM flyback: hearing the first startup
08:41 AM miss0r: It is. But it is also alot of hard work :)
08:41 AM miss0r: Alot of the bolts on there uses a 105mm heads
08:42 AM miss0r: You need alot of hydraulic equipment to work them :D
08:42 AM miss0r: bah. This bearing plate is seven different kinds of warped. I need to put it in the mill to stand a chance
08:42 AM flyback: be careful around hydrolics and high pressure grease guns
08:43 AM miss0r: trust me, I am :)
08:43 AM flyback: people have injected grease and fluids into muscle or blood
08:43 AM flyback: not a good way to go
08:43 AM miss0r: Yeah. My dad told me stories about that since I was 5 - I've been realy carefull ever since :D
11:45 AM Tom_L: flyback, hedge wood has also been used for bearings in some things
11:50 AM miss0r: Finally; now I am done with the rest of the bushings. They are all fitted. and all but one is sent out the door :]
11:50 AM miss0r: (the last one I have to go install tomorrow)
11:52 AM miss0r: 2x M3 socket screws holding the bushing in place, so it do not rotate. I had to shorten a 2.5mm drillbit down to 7mm spiral, to keep it from wandering into the brass, away from the cast iron
12:42 PM fragalot: Hi
12:45 PM mk0: hallo2. i am very sorry for repeating, tried to ask from phone
12:45 PM mk0: oh
12:46 PM gloops: hello
12:46 PM gloops: what seems to be the problem mk0
12:46 PM mk0: is it possible to use http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/ for work? not for simulation
12:47 PM mk0: dropbox says wheezy is not supported anymore. i use dropbox a lot
12:47 PM fragalot: it can be used to install a permanent version
12:47 PM fragalot: if you use that to run your machine, you will always have to either mount your real harddisk manually, or re-configure your machine each time you start up the livecd
12:48 PM gloops: yes, i dont think you can run the machine from the usb install though
12:48 PM mk0: ah, no. i mean i install stretch and use it for work
12:49 PM gloops: i havent done it yet but yes i think sp
12:49 PM mk0: it's not an official version. but can it be used for work?
12:49 PM mk0: thanks
12:49 PM mk0: !
12:50 PM gloops: jthornton Tom_L
12:50 PM skunkworks: mk0: yes - it seems to be very stable. It is running rt_preempt so if you are planning on doing software step-generation - you may be limited
12:58 PM mk0: thanks!
01:05 PM JT-Shop: gloops: he is at work :)
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: maybe I should write up a few clarifying remarks about preempt_rt, LPT port stepping and LPT PCI/e adapters
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: All PCI/e LPT cards work for software stepping with RTAI if the mainboard and CPU have low enough latency (most often limited by a bad BIOS)
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: the PCI/e LPT cards that you have to watch out for are those that have broken EPP. This is only a problem if you are using a LPT to Mesa 7i43
01:11 PM gloops: JT-Shop its ok the question got answered thanks
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WCH this card just needs a kernel patch
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: are there any PCI/e LPT cards that don't work well with software stepping right to a BOB?
01:16 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, i am?
01:16 PM Tom_L: don't tell the boss otherwise...
01:23 PM * JT-Shop was talking about himself :)
01:28 PM roycroft: i'm looking for parts bins, similar to the allit or tanos
01:28 PM roycroft: http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=70893&cat=1,43326
01:28 PM roycroft: that's an example of the allit bins
01:28 PM roycroft: does anyone have a source for such things at a good price?
01:29 PM roycroft: i need ~1500 of them, and i don't want to pay $1+ each
01:29 PM Tom_L: uline.com probably has them
01:30 PM * roycroft needs to consolidate the wall 'o' fasteners into a more compact form factor, so he can use the wall for other things
01:30 PM roycroft: i didn't find htem on uline
01:30 PM roycroft: plastic parts bins tend to be those long bins with angled, pen fronts
01:31 PM roycroft: they're intended to either stack freestanding, or hang on walls/racks
01:31 PM roycroft: what i need are drawer inserts
01:31 PM roycroft: i can buy tanos inserts similar to those allit ones
01:31 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: bags can work.
01:31 PM roycroft: the 60mm square tanos are 6.75 euros each
01:31 PM roycroft: plus shipping from germany
01:32 PM roycroft: no, bags really really cannot work
01:32 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: thicker bags, perhaps with cards, in a drawer, for smaller parts at least if they are not sharp.
01:32 PM roycroft: not when one has thousands of fasteners in stock
01:33 PM roycroft: i have a wall full of these right now:
01:33 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/Stack-DS-60-3-Drawer-Storage-Cabinet/dp/B000KKUSYS/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1540233078&sr=8-19&keywords=plastic+parts+bins
01:33 PM roycroft: 12 of them in total, with either one or two dividers in each drawer
01:33 PM roycroft: and they're almost completely full
01:34 PM SpeedEvil: Are most of them one or two fastners each, or actually appreciably filled?
01:34 PM roycroft: i really need 3000 inserts, if i move everything to individual bins, but i'll probably have to do half at a time due to cost and time constraints
01:34 PM roycroft: i try to keep them appreciably filled, for the most part
01:34 PM SpeedEvil: Ah.
01:34 PM roycroft: i actually have a color coding system with little self-adhesive dots
01:34 PM roycroft: when something is fully stocked (usually quantity 100) there's a green dot
01:34 PM roycroft: when i'm running low, a yellow dot
01:34 PM roycroft: and when i'm out, a red dot
01:35 PM roycroft: i try to avoid red dots and minimise yellow dots
01:35 PM SpeedEvil: I've wondered about just taking 2mm sheet, and making up a lot of wooden drawers with inserts.
01:35 PM SpeedEvil: 2mm polycarbonate
01:35 PM roycroft: if i can't find a good price on the inserts i'll make them out of 8mm baltic birch plywood
01:35 PM roycroft: but that's a lot of work, and the walls will be way thicker than i want, wasting a lot of space
01:36 PM roycroft: i don't relish the idea of fabricating thousands of tiny bins out of plywood
01:36 PM roycroft: but that's the price point i need to pursue
01:36 PM Tom_L: grab a bunch of electrical boxes :)
01:37 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clear-Plastic-Container-Lids-Takeaway-Microwave-Freezer-Safe-For-Food-Storage/263026961206
01:37 PM roycroft: and a napkin calculation tells me i can make them for <$0.50 each for 60mm square bins, counting only cost of the plywood
01:37 PM SpeedEvil: This class of thing can be interesting
01:37 PM roycroft: not counting the cost of the glue, nor my time
01:37 PM * roycroft wonders how many router bits he would burn up making box joints for 3000 bins
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: I got rid of my small cabinets with those little plastic drawers decades ago.
01:38 PM roycroft: the wall 'o' fasteners worked well for me for 20 or so years
01:38 PM roycroft: but my shop is just too small to afford that kind of space
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: my collections would always outgrow them and i was spending more time reorganizing
01:38 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Boxes.jpg :)
01:38 PM Tom_L: i get those from time to time
01:39 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/296360788
01:39 PM roycroft: i should be able to fit all the fasteners in one small cabinet that sits on the floor, about 1/4 the width of the wall 'o' fasteners
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: getting a bigger shop worked for me :)
01:39 PM SpeedEvil: I've found useful, but it would be nice to source them in bulk.
01:39 PM SpeedEvil: They fit really nicely in 15cm deep 40*60cm trays
01:39 PM SpeedEvil: that I got from a vendor that sold ex-supermarket delivery trays.
01:39 PM roycroft: getting a bigger shop is what i really need to do, but i can't build anything bigger on my property
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: the clear plastic container work out pretty well
01:40 PM roycroft: i've considered going up, but that would be way expensive
01:40 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-x-Bail-Arm-Crates-Bale-Arm-60-x-40-x-20cm-Plastic-Boxes-Stacking-Trays/263772094854
01:41 PM roycroft: i've written lee valley asking if they will offer a better discount for quantity 1000+
01:41 PM roycroft: they're pretty good about that kind of stuff
01:41 PM roycroft: so they may come in with a good price
01:41 PM roycroft: if i get the 60mm square ones for $0.60 or so, i'd be happy
01:46 PM roycroft: i do wonder why the only insert bins like that which i've found are made in germany, and why they're virtually unavailable in north america
01:46 PM roycroft: do people over here not like to organize their stuff?
01:47 PM roycroft: one should be able to get bins like that at harbor freight for $0.10 or so each
01:47 PM roycroft: the only problem being that one would have to let them offgas in the driveway for a half a year before being able to bring them into the shop
02:00 PM MrHindsight: just try to find a brand that keeps the same size bottom and lids over time
02:03 PM Rab: roycroft, I'd be interested in an economical source as well. I have some big metal card file cabinets I use for fasteners and mill tooling, but no real method of organization within the trays...IIRC they're about 4-1/2" wide.
02:03 PM roycroft: maybe it's time to invest in a 3d printer
02:03 PM roycroft: i could probably print what? maybe 5 bins/day?
02:03 PM roycroft: that would only take two years or so to make enough :)
02:03 PM MrHindsight: i like the paper ice cream container route
02:04 PM MrHindsight: paerboard
02:04 PM MrHindsight: paperboard
02:04 PM Rab: roycroft, for the filament cost you could buy any injection-molded bins you want.
02:04 PM MrHindsight: http://www2.us.huhtamaki.com/en/consumergood#productMarket/Ice%20cream
02:04 PM roycroft: so what's nice about using the standardized bins like tanos or allit is that i can get a nice case for them
02:04 PM roycroft: so when i am out on a job site, or even working on a project elsewhere in the shop, i could pull the bins i need for the job, put them in the case, and safely and neatly transport them
02:05 PM roycroft: the allit cases are $90, which is pretty expensive, but i would only ever need one, i should think
02:05 PM roycroft: sortimo would be another vendor i'd look at, except again, it's impossible to find the individual bins in north america
02:05 PM roycroft: i can buy a sortimo case full of bins any day of the week
02:05 PM roycroft: but i don't want their cases
02:06 PM roycroft: just the bins
02:06 PM roycroft: i kind of wonder if i should get into the business of selling those bins
02:06 PM gloops: i got about 40 rigid plastic trays from the local school, drawers for the kids stuff, they throw them out when they get tatty and just put new trays in
02:06 PM MrHindsight: http://ww.interpresstechnologies.com/NonRound.html space saving, and cheap
02:06 PM roycroft: i'd just need to get a container of bins from germany
02:07 PM gregcnc: maybe http://www.schallercorporation.com/plastic-boxes/
02:08 PM MrHindsight: https://www.harborfreight.com/tool-storage/part-storage/24-compartment-large-storage-container-61881.html
02:09 PM MrHindsight: https://www.harborfreight.com/24-container-storage-box-90243.html
02:09 PM roycroft: yeah, that doesn't work for me
02:09 PM roycroft: i have heaps of those
02:09 PM MrHindsight: nesting clear plastic bins
02:09 PM roycroft: but for the general hardware inventory i really need individual bins
02:11 PM MrHindsight: I've had the local Fastenal offer to stop by and keep tradck of my part inventory :)
02:11 PM MrHindsight: i have a hard time declining their gracious offer without laughing
02:12 PM roycroft: i do have at least 2000 line items in my fastener inventory
02:12 PM MrHindsight: "and will they also tell me what to buy?"
02:12 PM roycroft: but i still end up making a truck roll for the occasional odd fastener
02:13 PM roycroft: my goal is to mostly eliminate those truck rolls, and i've been pretty successful at that over the years
02:13 PM roycroft: if i need 2 of a fastener i don't have i'll usually buy 100
02:13 PM Rab: MrHindsight, Fastenal's expensive, limited and rarely-stocked inventory will tell you exactly what you can buy.
02:13 PM roycroft: for jobs that require a quantity of fasteners i buy for that job, of course
02:13 PM roycroft: but for onesies/twosies it's nice having inventory
02:13 PM gloops: you have to be careful with the stacking tubs, a lot on offer now are sheer rubbish, thin walled brittle crap that doesnt last 5 minutes
02:13 PM roycroft: it saves a lot of time
02:13 PM MrHindsight: "Management, do you have a hard time deciding what to spend your budget on? Inventory, workers, gambling? ... well have we got a system worked out for you!!
02:14 PM roycroft: my color coding system works well for me
02:14 PM roycroft: i use these:
02:14 PM roycroft: https://www.staples.com/Avery-5795-Round-1-4-Diameter-Color-Coding-Labels-Assorted-Colors-760-Pack/product_298182
02:14 PM roycroft: i even use the blue ones sometimes - those are for items that i have in stock but do not want to restock
02:15 PM MrHindsight: Rab: the only good thing about fastenal for me is that the big warehouse is overnight for me, so >90% is next day
02:15 PM Rab: I'd put McMaster-Carr in charge of it; I placed an order on Thursday and it arrived Friday with ground shipping...they seem to be getting faster at pulling and shipping.
02:15 PM MrHindsight: guess it's ~100 miles north
02:16 PM MrHindsight: McMaster is a 1 hour drive for me
02:16 PM MrHindsight: or next day by UPS
02:16 PM Rab: MrHindsight, most excellent. Are you near the GA warehouse?
02:16 PM MrHindsight: they tried an afterhour will call near Chicago
02:16 PM MrHindsight: ^^
02:16 PM Rab: ahh
02:17 PM MrHindsight: Grainer has a $1/box overstock I look for
02:18 PM MrHindsight: fasteners next day and I pickup 40 minutes away, no shipping fee
02:20 PM MrHindsight: https://www.grainger.com/category/socket-screws-and-set-screws/fasteners/ecatalog/N-15gvZbjvZh9c
02:20 PM roycroft: mcmaster are usually a day from me via ups
02:21 PM roycroft: 2 days typically in the winter, when there is snow in the passes
02:21 PM roycroft: but i get most of my fasteners from eugene fastener, who are 5 minutes from my house
02:21 PM roycroft: they have about a quarter million line items in stock
02:21 PM MrHindsight: nice
02:22 PM roycroft: it's unusual when they don't have what i want, unless i'm looking for something really weird
02:22 PM MrHindsight: eugene fastener, sounds like an explorer
02:26 PM Rab: We used to have a decent local fastener place, until they were bought out by FastServ which seems to be a Fastenal clone. Don't let it happen to yours!
02:29 PM MrHindsight: around here there are several and they are competitive, they even deliver
02:32 PM MrHindsight: other than raw materials (steel, aluminum etc) has anyone been effected by the latest Chinese tariffs?
02:34 PM roycroft: i haven't bought anything from grizzly in a while, but they've definitely tacked the tariff on their products
02:34 PM roycroft: i'd like to get a new edge sander, and there is no tariff charge on it yet
02:34 PM t0ner: the cost of shipping is going to rise, as well
02:34 PM roycroft: grizzly are adding the tariff as they get new products in
02:34 PM roycroft: current inventory is not subject to it
02:35 PM roycroft: so i should probably think about getting that sander soon, before they run out of stock and the price goes up 25%
02:35 PM laminae_: Good day gents
02:35 PM roycroft: that would reqire a wad of cash and selling my old one though
02:35 PM laminae_: So i had three parker linear actuators land in my lap, all 16" travel
02:36 PM laminae_: And i'm converting my cnc router rig to use them instead of the leadscrew driven polycarbonate wheel nonsense
02:36 PM laminae_: And i'm not in the market for a big boy spindle to go with the set
02:37 PM laminae_: The bulk of my cutting is actually plastics and mdf for vacuum forming bucks, but i do a fair bit of cf (with a flood bed) and i would like to do aluminum now that i will have "rigid" actuators
02:38 PM laminae_: Due to arcing hazard from a stray piece of cf i'd like water cooled and preferably lass than 1000 bucks and 110v 2hpish
02:38 PM laminae_: Any suggestions?
02:39 PM laminae_: Worth noting, i am currently using a piece of junk ebay vfd that "works" and i'd like something better than that low bar
02:40 PM MrHindsight: laminae_: what range of RPM?
02:41 PM laminae_: Higher is much better for cf, i have almost no experience with alum so i really don't know what my needs would be there i'd say high end 20kish?
02:41 PM laminae_: Plastics tend to melt with too high rpm, but if it came down to it i have other options for those
02:42 PM laminae_: i think i'm in the ball park of 1200 rpm for most of the plastics
02:43 PM laminae_: Any thought son this? https://www.rockler.com/2hp-water-cooled-spindle-for-cnc-shark-hd?sid=V9146?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6rXeBRD3ARIsAD9ni9CzypYWoFm84ocVb4kzZJHJfau3iTSPeTQylQ1-fIrb6AXPCLE8x_gaAkQ3EALw_wcB
02:44 PM laminae_: I wish there were bearing specs
02:44 PM MrHindsight: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-milling-spindle/milling-spindle-1100w-1-5hp-max-6000rpm-brushless-motor-and-driver/
02:46 PM laminae_: only 6k rpm on that puppy
02:46 PM Rab: laminae_, are you in the US?
02:46 PM laminae_: Yes
02:47 PM MrHindsight: oh so you want the higher rpms?
02:47 PM laminae_: yeah, at least 18k for cf
02:47 PM Rab: Seems like Rockler is charging quite a premium for their 12mo warranty: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077BZWG4L
02:47 PM gregcnc: you can get basically the same thing on ebay for half http://a.co/d/hwLAw6l
02:48 PM gregcnc: yeah
02:48 PM MrHindsight: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-milling-spindle/2200wcncmillingspindle/
02:48 PM MrHindsight: ER-20
02:48 PM Rab: That listing seems to be domestic, so you could replace a defective unit...much harder when the product ships from China.
02:48 PM gregcnc: And that's what your paying for
02:48 PM MrHindsight: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com just outside Chicago
02:49 PM MrHindsight: the guy that owns it is ok
02:49 PM MrHindsight: pretty fair
02:49 PM MrHindsight: just doesn't get Linux though
02:49 PM laminae_: I have one sub par spindle from ebay already, this one is a bit on the spendy side but worth looking through specs
02:49 PM MrHindsight: has a PhD from the U of I in ME
02:50 PM MrHindsight: I should ask him what he did his thesis on
02:51 PM Rab: laminae_, are you limited to 110V?
02:51 PM laminae_: Yes
02:52 PM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
02:58 PM gloops: laminae_ get one of the 0-24k hy spindle/vfd sets
02:59 PM gloops: £150
02:59 PM laminae_: That's what i currently have
03:00 PM laminae_: There is deflection under very little load
03:00 PM laminae_: Bad oscillations, particularly at high rpm
03:01 PM gregcnc: But is that a spindle issue or machine issue?
03:02 PM gloops: surely the spindle doesnt bend
03:02 PM laminae_: no, it does not bend
03:02 PM gregcnc: of course it does, but it should not be enough to cause trouble within the expected operating range
03:03 PM laminae_: I'm assuming whatever collet fits to the bearings does not have a tight enough tolerance
03:03 PM laminae_: or perhaps just low tolerance bearings
03:04 PM gloops: theyre not brilliant but usually adequate for wood and light ally work
03:04 PM laminae_: My top priotority here is cf and aluminum
03:05 PM laminae_: WHich is why i'm looking to upgrade
03:05 PM laminae_: Gotta run for the moment though, be back in a bit
03:05 PM gloops: any pics of the machine?
03:06 PM laminae_: Been upgraded a fair bit since this, but here https://imgur.com/gallery/43JtOmR
03:06 PM laminae_: Be back in an hour
03:07 PM gloops: think the rollers might be contribution to the 'deflection' problem
03:10 PM Rab: gloops, and not the legendary rigidity of extruded aluminum?
03:11 PM gloops: nah they make lifts with that stuff
03:12 PM Rab: I think laminae_ is on the right track with the linear actuator upgrade. The base machine might not be able to support it though.
03:13 PM gloops: well he could brace the cross beam up, throw that z away and get some plates, working with narrow footprint for linear rails though
03:14 PM gloops: either way i think theres likely to be far more slack in the z as it is, than in the spindle bearings
03:14 PM gregcnc: did you just use many words to say build a better machine?
03:15 PM gloops: wells hes going to spend $1000 on a spindle that wont change anything
03:56 PM Deejay: gn8
04:02 PM laminae_: Is modbus the preferred standard for vfd control?
04:08 PM cpresser: there is no such thing as prefered. its a valid method amonst others
04:11 PM laminae_: Thanks
04:11 PM roycroft: i use my forefinger and sometimes my thumb for vfd control
04:11 PM roycroft: that is what i currently prefer
04:11 PM cpresser: what does you vfd offer, and what are your available outputs?
04:11 PM roycroft: if i'm honest, though, i've never tried using my toes
04:13 PM laminae_: I have an hy right now, currently opperated by traditional index finger
04:16 PM laminae_: This is certainly appealing to me, who was it that suggested https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-milling-spindle/2200wcncmillingspindle/?fbclid=IwAR3TqLw5lnwTmGPOA5ay1z1FC3wpfGuxO4loSPl8PphRUwaxpqOV0y3RZBs
04:16 PM laminae_: Wondering if anyone has direct experience with the product
04:17 PM laminae_: er20, 110v and water cooling being very appealing in addition to rpm range
04:17 PM roycroft: you can get 80mm spindles on ebay for half that price
04:17 PM roycroft: i don't know what the difference in quality is
04:18 PM roycroft: although the spindle won't come with a bracket for $250
04:18 PM roycroft: it would be worth looking at the $250 ones though, i think
04:18 PM roycroft: to see if they are comparable in quality
04:18 PM roycroft: you can buy a lot of beer with $250 in your pocket
04:18 PM laminae_: I'm just afriad of getting another piece of crap like i already have x.x
04:19 PM laminae_: Also, roy, not sure if you remember me but you were a ton of help setting up my machine and i really appreciate it
04:20 PM Rab: I wouldn't buy anything that doesn't ship from within the US.
04:20 PM roycroft: they're easy to repair
04:20 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U1-6rEHBGA
04:20 PM roycroft: as that factory authorized service center demonstrates :)
04:20 PM roycroft: i do remember you, laminae
04:21 PM laminae_: Hopefully not too painful haha
04:22 PM laminae_: I think you cautioned me on the quality of my linear actuators and your words have certainly been true
04:22 PM laminae_: I had a trio of 16" parker ballscrew stages fall into my lap and i'm retrofitting them into that frame
04:24 PM roycroft: god, i need to avoid teh youtube until after the election
04:24 PM roycroft: every single video has a politcal commercial at the beginning that i can't skip
04:24 PM roycroft: and it's all lies
04:24 PM roycroft: both sides lie
04:24 PM roycroft: both sides shout
04:24 PM roycroft: both sides are nasty
04:25 PM laminae_: Can't we all peddle hate in peace?
04:25 PM roycroft: i need to form a new political party called the be nice, be honest party
04:25 PM laminae_: Take a peek at these bad boys https://imgur.com/a/CqFbFDc
04:26 PM laminae_: I don't have a use for the small stages really, but i'n thinking a laser cutter with the motors
04:28 PM Rab: laminae_, stack them for greater travel!
04:28 PM Rab: Nice warez by the way.
04:29 PM laminae_: Looking at the specs the little guys aren't rated for machining and i think i'd eat my cost in drivers pretty quick
04:29 PM laminae_: I got super lucky on the whole
04:29 PM laminae_: everything pictured for 600 bucks
04:33 PM laminae_: gotta run
04:56 PM roycroft: joy - i just found some storage bins for a lot less than those ones from lee valley
04:57 PM roycroft: http://www.schallercorporation.com
04:57 PM roycroft: as in less than half the cost
04:58 PM SpeedEvil: yay
04:58 PM roycroft: more like 1/3 the cost, actually
04:58 PM roycroft: getting down to where they are affordable
04:58 PM SpeedEvil: If the plastic isn't brittle crap and the drawers don't fit, that is.
04:58 PM roycroft: http://www.schallercorporation.com/2-x-2-x-2-red-plastic-box-actual-dimensions-1-875-x-1-875-x-1-75/
04:59 PM Rab: <gregcnc> maybe http://www.schallercorporation.com/plastic-boxes/
04:59 PM roycroft: the equivalent of those are $1.20 at lee valley
04:59 PM roycroft: i didn't see his post
04:59 PM roycroft: i'll happily give him credit though :)
04:59 PM roycroft: and wish i had seen it however long ago it was
04:59 PM syyl: oh
05:00 PM syyl: schaller bins. all thats needed to get "lean"
05:01 PM roycroft: they will fit the drawers
05:01 PM roycroft: because i'm not making the drawers until i have the inserts
05:25 PM CaptHindsight: whats heavier a pound of sand or a pound of wet sand?
05:27 PM MarcelineVQ: That's a heavy question my dude
05:27 PM Rab: Wet sand will evaporate moisture during any time it takes to measure the weight, so it'll obviously come up lighter.
05:28 PM Tom_L: a pound of feathers
05:28 PM Rab: Even if the chickens are flying?
05:28 PM Tom_L: especially
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: oh the sand is in a bag so moisture can't escape
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.simetric.co.uk/si_materials.htm
05:31 PM Rab: Then you have to add the weight of the bag!
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: wet sand vs compacted dry sand
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: vs wet compacted sand
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: very very very compacted sand is sandstone
05:35 PM Tom_L: depends on the wetting agent
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.materials.sandvik/en/products/metal-powder/list-of-materials/
05:53 PM jthornton: looks like I can use #2 copper to go from the new panel to the house panel...
06:06 PM Xnke: what's happenin in folks
06:06 PM CaptHindsight: if you had a scale inside a bag of sand would it measure the weight of the bag? If not all the bag then how much?
06:06 PM roycroft: pretty heavy conversation here
06:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgiwGmf4fFc Gas Atomization of Stainless Steel - Slow Motion
06:18 PM Xnke: the scale would measure the acceleration due to gravity. not the bag.
06:24 PM Jin^eLD is now known as Jin|away
06:32 PM CaptHindsight: if you place a steel rod on on a scale and it weighs 1Kg, if you lean the top end of the bar against so it partially rests on the wall next to the scale how much will the scale register when the bar is tipped at 30, 45 and 60 deg
06:34 PM CaptHindsight: from vertical
06:43 PM Xnke: do you want results including friction or theoretical results?
06:51 PM CaptHindsight: only results involving irrational number
06:51 PM CaptHindsight: s
06:55 PM _unreal_: yay an other one of my important parts showed up finally
06:55 PM _unreal_: just got in my special usb hub
06:55 PM _unreal_: micro board usb hub
08:25 PM infornography: Wild Berry skittles > normal skittles
08:27 PM MarcelineVQ: tropical too
08:28 PM MarcelineVQ: even sour are pretty good, if you don't like your teeth
08:29 PM infornography: teeth are evil, need to be punished
08:29 PM MarcelineVQ: You at least have to keep them on their toes
08:51 PM flyback: <Tom_L> flyback, hedge wood has also been used for bearings in some things
08:51 PM flyback: cool
09:01 PM ziper: is 500 bucks enough to build a modestly sized 3 axis table capable of cutting foam
09:04 PM pink_vampire: ziper: yeah
09:05 PM pink_vampire: you can make something very easy with belts
09:05 PM ziper: less dense woods too or is that too much? do belts have any problems with long travels?
09:06 PM pink_vampire: you need good tension on the belts
09:09 PM ziper: coreXY the best setup?
09:11 PM pink_vampire: ziper: if you are going to make foam cutter, i think it is better to make it as dual XY, (4 axis)
09:15 PM ziper: I don't follow. what do the 3rd and 4th axes do?
09:16 PM pink_vampire: it give you the ability to cut tapered shape
09:19 PM ziper: do you have an example, i'm sorry, i'm not seeing it
09:21 PM pink_vampire: https://www.instructables.com/id/4-Axis-CNC-Hot-wire-Foam-Cutter-ArduinoRamps14/
09:23 PM _unreal_: ziper, hi
09:23 PM _unreal_: long time no see
09:23 PM _unreal_: you had some question for me but I never saw you again till now
09:24 PM ziper: pink_vampire, oh, I don't want hot wire, I want a spindle, I don't think my foam takes to hot wire cutting
09:24 PM _unreal_: ziper, if your talking about closed cell foam for fiberglass layup your right
09:24 PM CaptHindsight: hahaha that is 2 axis with 4 joints!!
09:25 PM _unreal_: hot wire is useless
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: hot grits cutter
09:26 PM _unreal_: grits?
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grits
09:26 PM _unreal_: ziper, ?
09:27 PM ziper: _unreal_, what
09:27 PM _unreal_: what? I just asked you a few questions
09:28 PM ziper: i dont know anything about grits
09:28 PM ziper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWC0sKCS5oA
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: ziper: that's my favorite grits scene
09:29 PM pink_vampire: ziper: oh, so you need very fast spindle, the load on it will be close to 0
09:30 PM pink_vampire: i have foam project that i want to do
09:30 PM _unreal_: ziper, did you ever figure out the answer to the question you asked me a week ago or so ?
09:31 PM _unreal_: I dont recall what it was
09:31 PM ziper: _unreal_, neither do i, lol
09:31 PM _unreal_: foam question maybe?
09:31 PM _unreal_: or structure
09:31 PM ziper: well I guess one question is can you make an acceptable mold by vac bagging one layer of glass to a female carved from foam
09:31 PM _unreal_: yes
09:32 PM _unreal_: with a catch
09:32 PM _unreal_: What weight is the glass
09:32 PM pink_vampire: ziper: what travel do you need?
09:32 PM _unreal_: and you need peelply and breather cloth
09:32 PM ziper: pink_vampire, i was hoping for like 2ft x 4ft x 10inches
09:33 PM CaptHindsight: I heard that if you vacuum foam it no longer is foam
09:33 PM CaptHindsight: well in a bag anyway
09:33 PM pink_vampire: what accuracy?
09:33 PM _unreal_: ziper, https://www.fibreglast.com/product/Breather_and_Bleeder_579/Vacuum_Bagging_Films_Peel_Ply_Tapes
09:34 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, depends on what kind of foam your talking about
09:34 PM ziper: does the smooth peel ply actually work? ive only used the rough stuff
09:34 PM CaptHindsight: polyester or polyether foam
09:34 PM _unreal_: rough? peel ply?
09:34 PM ziper: pink_vampire, I don't know how to properly quantify it, but relatively accurate
09:34 PM CaptHindsight: open cell
09:35 PM _unreal_: polyester foam will expand, eurothain foam will not
09:35 PM ziper: CaptHindsight, PVC, closed cell
09:36 PM _unreal_: ziper, I've never heard of rough peelply?
09:36 PM _unreal_: there are a few types of peelply but the most common are these. one sec getting a link
09:36 PM ziper: I think this one https://www.fibreglast.com/product/Polyester_Peel_Ply_583/Vacuum_Bagging_Films_Peel_Ply_Tapes
09:36 PM _unreal_: https://www.fibreglast.com/product/econostitch_peel_ply/Vacuum_Bagging_Films_Peel_Ply_Tapes
09:37 PM _unreal_: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-release-surface-teflon-peel-ply_60701580352.html
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: closed cell foam will expand under lower pressures
09:38 PM _unreal_: its more or less like the stuff I just posted....
09:38 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, TOTAL BULL SHIT
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: no
09:38 PM _unreal_: closed cell foam is used in vacuum infusion
09:38 PM ziper: it obviously depends on the foam
09:38 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, I am a master glass man working on boats and that WHAT I do you are full of shit
09:39 PM ziper: also consider that when its sandwiched it still under pressure from the vac bag
09:39 PM CaptHindsight: closed cells are like balloons
09:39 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, thats opencell
09:39 PM _unreal_: and not eurothain based
09:39 PM CaptHindsight: open cells are like not balloons
09:39 PM ziper: its not like its in a rigid vac chamber, its in a bag
09:39 PM _unreal_: now your contradicting your self
09:40 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, you have no idea what your talking about
09:40 PM CaptHindsight: I'm sorry I can only have this discussion with someone with English as a first language
09:41 PM _unreal_: right....
09:41 PM _unreal_: sight a link prooving your point
09:42 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, I generate about $30k USD per month for the company I work for per month just in my own chargable work hours....
09:42 PM _unreal_: and that is doing all kinds of work on boats everything from FRP to hardware and tech... work.
09:42 PM CaptHindsight: oh I'm just a polymer chemist
09:43 PM _unreal_: I asked for links prooving your point
09:43 PM _unreal_: any tiem
09:43 PM _unreal_: time
09:43 PM ziper: CaptHindsight, when spraying polyester resin (gelcoat) is it better to thin with styrene or acetone? or something else?
09:43 PM _unreal_: I also spent years working for the Jackson lab www.jax.org I am also publish with them. after I did a project on the SJL mouse
09:44 PM _unreal_: trust me I can go on and on
09:44 PM _unreal_: ziper, depends
09:44 PM _unreal_: and you dont really want to use styrene, its better to use... ahh
09:44 PM _unreal_: crap whats it called
09:44 PM _unreal_: brain fart
09:45 PM ziper: peeps are made from closed cell foam https://youtu.be/EIvkOCRiSoI?t=85
09:45 PM _unreal_: https://www.fibreglast.com/product/916/March-Sale?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6rXeBRD3ARIsAD9ni9A7jZrHiSc25EpyICP4MT9fwhDmcRiVszcFB40UtMiHigyxid6q-oYaAuz0EALw_wcB
09:45 PM _unreal_: Duratec
09:46 PM ziper: duratec isn't the same, its for anti-orange peel, and causes chalk after a while. I'm talking about just for thinning
09:47 PM _unreal_: ALL gelcoat will chaulk
09:47 PM _unreal_: the thinner makes little difference
09:47 PM CaptHindsight: ziper: I like to add styrene since it's a carcinogen and people don't like the odor
09:47 PM _unreal_: gel will chalk about a few 32nd per year in the sun especially in the south like where I am in florida
09:48 PM CaptHindsight: styrene is an active solvent vs the acetone, so what do you want to do?
09:48 PM _unreal_: What are you spraying
09:48 PM ziper: CaptHindsight, I want to maintain the properties of the gelcoat
09:48 PM ziper: I like the smell
09:49 PM _unreal_: ziper, then you need a cup gun
09:49 PM ziper: the question is if the acetone will evaporate causing weakness
09:49 PM ziper: or if the extra styrene will still crosslink
09:49 PM _unreal_: https://fiberglasssource.com/products/es-g100-gelcoat-spray-gun
09:50 PM _unreal_: ziper, generally people use duritec or acetone to thin.. and thinning is only for using spray guns with small opening for fan/mist style spray
09:51 PM _unreal_: a cup gun you dont need to thin PERIOD
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: styrene much lower vapor pressure than the acetone
09:51 PM ziper: I drilled my HVLP out and it still needed a little thinner
09:51 PM _unreal_: ziper, get a cup gun like in the link
09:51 PM _unreal_: there are different tip diam as well
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: the acetone won't crosslink
09:52 PM _unreal_: all you do is use a paper cut. mix put it on the gun spray... toss the empty cup and wipe the tip with acetone to clean. DONE
09:52 PM CaptHindsight: the styrene can crosslink
09:52 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, crosslinking is the auction between the gelcoat and MEKP
09:52 PM _unreal_: wtf ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
09:53 PM ziper: styrene participates
09:53 PM CaptHindsight: Marisa Tomei
09:53 PM ziper: so hot
09:53 PM CaptHindsight: you shouldn't of posted that video
09:53 PM _unreal_: acetone evaporates almost immediately when spraying or rather when atomized by a spray gun...
09:54 PM _unreal_: again your full of it
09:54 PM CaptHindsight: sorry there appears to be a language barrier
09:54 PM ziper: why does a thermoset resin such as polyester even need the MEKP, why can't you just straight heat it?
09:54 PM CaptHindsight: unsaturated polyester or saturated?
09:55 PM _unreal_: ziper, if you google gelcoat thinner your mainly going to get (patch booster) which is duratec
09:55 PM _unreal_: and suggestions to NOT use acetone and or styrene
09:55 PM CaptHindsight: Patch Booster sounds like a cowboy name
09:56 PM _unreal_: ziper, https://blog-fgci.com/2016/07/13/tech-blog-5-tips-on-thinning-gelcoat/
09:56 PM ziper: un, i guess
09:56 PM _unreal_: ziper, also do you put your gelcoat though a paint strainer before you spray?
09:56 PM ziper: of course
09:56 PM _unreal_: good
09:57 PM ziper: I don't plan on doing any more gelcoat any time ever tbh
09:57 PM _unreal_: heh I just did a gel job yesterday
09:57 PM _unreal_: err today
09:57 PM _unreal_: making clam shells for a boat. they had plastic one's every one of them was messed up cracked broken
09:58 PM _unreal_: I made a mold off of one of them
09:58 PM _unreal_: and have made several so far
09:58 PM _unreal_: almost done
10:02 PM ziper: pink_vampire, can i still use belts with a spindle?
10:03 PM _unreal_: ?
10:03 PM _unreal_: heh... what kind of belt and spindle, and my short answer is yes
10:05 PM ziper: the kind to cnc cut foam cores and molds
10:05 PM Tom_L: as long as they are rated for the spindle rpm
10:06 PM _unreal_: all frp foams mil nice
10:06 PM _unreal_: though high RPM is suggested
10:11 PM ziper: can you just butt up linear rails instead of paying for longer ones?
10:20 PM infornography: It seems like that would cost more *thonk*
10:20 PM ziper: shipping
10:39 PM pink_vampire: ziper: belts = fast feed rate and low load, so as far as i think, belts will be easy solution, but of course the trade off will bee some accuracy because the nature of the belts
10:42 PM pink_vampire: be*