#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 10 2018
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:15 AM flyback: http://www.smallgiant.tv/swampfather/
01:58 AM Deejay: moin
04:04 AM gloops: all quiet
04:11 AM pink_vampire: hi
04:11 AM gloops: morning, did you get the driver working pink?
04:12 AM pink_vampire: no
04:12 AM selroc: hi
04:13 AM pink_vampire: i sent it to gecko
04:13 AM gloops: new driver then?
04:13 AM gloops: ahh ok
04:19 AM XXCoder: heys
04:19 AM pink_vampire: hi
04:20 AM XXCoder: sand sand sand the fiberglass parts. so boring. lol
04:23 AM pink_vampire: xev don't don't recognize some of the buttons on my keyboard
04:25 AM XXCoder: weird
04:37 AM gloops: XXCoder i made a mold for fibreglass door canopies, about 5 ft accross, i was on the brink of weeping by the time id rubbed it down to a glass finish
04:37 AM XXCoder: thats all? I turn fiberglass blocks into part lol
04:38 AM XXCoder: good thing I use tons of coolant or otherwise...
04:38 AM gloops: all! it seemed to take forever lol
04:38 AM XXCoder: dumbass on other shift always let coolant stop and let it make powder. it kills tools fast and dust is very very bad
04:39 AM gloops: yeah that stuff gets everywhere
04:40 AM XXCoder: its in same family as abestos
04:40 AM XXCoder: only reason its not banned is that it does not break down in lungs so it gets cleared out
04:40 AM XXCoder: its still quite nasty
04:41 AM gloops: i noticed i was getting sore throat when messing with grp, the fumes and the dust
04:43 AM XXCoder: ow
04:43 AM XXCoder: I always kept dust under control so never happened to me
04:44 AM XXCoder: I use vent sanding center to keep dust away
04:45 AM gloops: i always wear a mask but even so, i noticed it was affecting my throat, nothing major but it was there
04:46 AM gloops: lungs are one of those things you dont notice any injury, breathe in a load of dust - no obvious effect, 10 years later when you start coughing
04:46 AM XXCoder: not for me
04:47 AM XXCoder: my lungs are already damaged for long while now. too many lung affecting dieases
04:47 AM XXCoder: (not serious stuff but stacked up it damages lungs)
04:52 AM gloops: yeah, delicate things, i have read that if someone stops smoking the lungs are fully repaired after 10 years
04:54 AM XXCoder: yeah
04:54 AM XXCoder: doc told me if I have few more permenia I probably would need oxygen tanks or die
04:55 AM gloops: whoo i would be looking after my chest in that case
04:55 AM XXCoder: did you have em 10 times?
04:56 AM gloops: remember a few of the old miners round here ending up on oxygen, very sad to see big strapping men gasping, unable to do much
04:57 AM gloops: i havent had permenia no
04:57 AM XXCoder: blacklung is nasty stuff
04:57 AM XXCoder: its making a comeback now, after some reglations were nixed
04:57 AM gloops: all the mining has gone here anyway now
04:58 AM XXCoder: we really need to stop using coal and start space mining
04:58 AM XXCoder: lots rocks out there.
04:58 AM XXCoder: as bonus theres lots of He3 out there also. makes fusion much easier
05:03 AM gloops: either that or make some breakthrough with non fossil/mineral energy
05:03 AM XXCoder: He3 would be that
05:04 AM XXCoder: coal is already dead
05:04 AM XXCoder: usa is trying to necro it up but...
05:06 AM gloops: was looking through some old photos of my town last night, a lot of people say they wish coal would come back - when you look at the old photos it would be shocking to see that today
05:06 AM gloops: place was filthy and black
05:07 AM XXCoder: wow
05:07 AM gloops: rivers were dead, air was poisoned, the ground was toxic, roads just running straight through big heaps of waste either side
05:08 AM XXCoder: and they want it back
05:10 AM gloops: yep, the good old days
05:14 AM XXCoder: fuj
05:14 AM XXCoder: fun
05:29 AM pink_vampire: someone know about an extension like Nuke but permanent ?
05:31 AM XXCoder: nuke this! plugin is best of all so far I know, but nothing makes it perment
05:31 AM XXCoder: nuke anything I mean
05:34 AM jthornton: morning
05:34 AM Tom_L: hey
05:35 AM XXCoder: hey jb
05:35 AM jthornton: jb's not here he is in Kenner La
05:35 AM Tom_L: 46°F Hi 58
05:36 AM Tom_L: but at least you're gettin the rain instead of me
05:36 AM jthornton: damn it's 72°F
05:37 AM jthornton: it's wet outside but not raining atm
05:38 AM XXCoder: it doesnt even get over 50f entire week here. its now "mid-fall" weather pattern here
05:38 AM Tom_L: rain gage was full at 5" yesterday
05:39 AM XXCoder: *59f
05:39 AM jthornton: damn
05:39 AM Tom_L: previously 2"
05:39 AM jthornton: python schedule does not work right lol it's an hour off for some reason
05:39 AM Tom_L: it's just warmin up for the close of CDT
05:43 AM jthornton: it doesn't say where it gets the time info so the code is faulty schedule 08:00 fires off at 9pm lol not 8am
05:44 AM jthornton: hmm I wonder if it's using utc time
05:56 AM pink_vampire: i found ContentBlockHelper
05:58 AM XXCoder: interesting its made for ads, but can work on any part
05:58 AM pink_vampire: yeah
06:02 AM pink_vampire: i just can't get the keyboard keycode from xev
06:05 AM pink_vampire: this is what i'm get in xev for "volume up" "volume down" "mute"
06:05 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/MWZjoFi.png
06:09 AM XXCoder: I got same
06:10 AM pink_vampire: i found that https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/328039/unable-to-find-keycode-for-volume-key-on-apple-keyboard
06:19 AM pink_vampire: found it
06:19 AM pink_vampire: killall xfce4-volumed
06:20 AM XXCoder: whats you want to use vol buttons for
06:20 AM pink_vampire: for the cnc
06:25 AM XXCoder: for something besides volume?
06:26 AM pink_vampire: z axis
06:26 AM pink_vampire: ans c axis
06:27 AM pink_vampire: i got a new mini keyboard
06:27 AM XXCoder: nice
06:28 AM XXCoder: though if you get a cheap keyboard you could pull it apart and wire buttons in whatever array and design you want
06:28 AM XXCoder: and use cnc to make a nice faceplate for it
06:29 AM pink_vampire: on that mini keyboard there is 0 place for wires it is all membranes
06:29 AM XXCoder: you could solder to those and use regular wires
06:30 AM pink_vampire: no room
06:31 AM XXCoder: yeah if you wanted to do it, would better to get cheap keyboard not that mini one
06:31 AM pink_vampire: i need to be mini
06:35 AM XXCoder: lol ok
07:03 AM methods_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFGxnF9SqDE
07:03 AM methods_: cool hopping robot
07:09 AM XXCoder: yeah
07:14 AM jthornton: damn super thin egg shells broke in my pocket...
07:15 AM XXCoder: you need to feed chickens more calium
07:16 AM XXCoder: calcium
07:18 AM jthornton: they have crushed oyster shell all they want
07:19 AM XXCoder: odd
07:20 AM jthornton: yea, I'm switching their feed over to layer which has extra calcium in it
07:21 AM pink_vampire: i can't edit the shift botton in linuxcnc axis file
07:48 AM diverdude: I need my arduino to give status updates regarding motor positions via serial cable quite often (several times per second). This is done while it feeds the stepper motors with pulses. I can a small *clonk* from motors every time a status update is transmitted. I would think this is caused by the small delay it takes when sending over serial port. Is there any way i can avoid this such that motors are running smoothly?
07:52 AM * jthornton checks to see if this is the #arduino channel... nope
07:54 AM pink_vampire: diverdude: what are you trying to do?
08:10 AM rmu: diverdude: it is certainly possible to do that with atmegas. but my solution is of the kind "just program is" ;-)
08:10 AM rmu: s/is/it/
08:13 AM rmu: probably better if you ask on some arduino-related channel
08:19 AM pink_vampire: I solved the media keys issue (volup, voldown, mute) killall xfce4-volumed, and to prevent it from running at startup, edit the file /etc/xdg/autostart/xfce4-volumed.desktop just comment each line in the file with # and reboot, after that xev will recognize the media key and there is no issue to remap them
08:27 AM miss0r2 is now known as miss0r
08:27 AM miss0r: 'Afternoon
08:28 AM JT-Shop: hey
08:29 AM miss0r: diverdude: it seems you have reached the end of the road :) serial interruption of stepper driving is a nonsolvable issue
08:29 AM miss0r: JT-Shop: Today I did what I NEVER thought I would do. I sent out a relay coil to be re-coiled :D
08:31 AM miss0r: that relay coil will probally set me back $5-600
08:31 AM miss0r: :D
08:31 AM miss0r: But when you can't get a replacement, and you can't fit anything else but the original in there.. and theres no possible replacement available anywhere.. well, then you just have to pay up
08:33 AM JT-Shop: damn, a large relay coil?
08:33 AM miss0r: diverdude: That being said; I've seen "solutions" where a cycle delay is inserted on each cycle, but the one doing the serial send, to try'n mitigate the 'dead' position. Also; have you tried running the serial baud at a much higher rate? that can also reduce the 'lag'
08:33 AM miss0r: jt-shop: no
08:33 AM miss0r: 30x30x25mm
08:34 AM miss0r: but some poor SOB has to unwind it, to figure out how many turns have to go on there & figure out what gauge.
08:34 AM miss0r: that that will take a while, as it was pretty badle burned
08:34 AM miss0r: badly*
08:36 AM miss0r: JT-Shop: I suppose I could find a replacement in the US. but as time is also an issue(of the essence actually) that would not work. It is a 110v AC 50-60hz relay with 5 NO and 5 NC contacts
08:36 AM miss0r: and I can't fit two seprate relays in there, to make up for the amount of contacts
08:38 AM JT-Shop: yea 3 line and 1 aux is common but 5 is not very common
08:38 AM miss0r: Indeed
08:39 AM miss0r: but this is not a 5 pole double throw(5p-DT) it has 10 seprate contacts.
08:40 AM miss0r: Thats what you get with Czech machinery from the '70s
08:42 AM JT-Shop: lol
08:43 AM JT-Shop: I've seen some Korean machines with wild el cabinets lol
08:45 AM miss0r: Indeed :D But as with so many other things; relays like these are not used anymore. They were basically obsolete when the PLC was invented
08:52 AM diverdude: miss0r: i am currently running at 115200
08:52 AM diverdude: miss0r: i was just thinking if maybe i could somehow report the position using sth. else than serial port to avoid the problem
08:53 AM miss0r: diverdude: I don't know what to tell you :) You are basically asking a processor barely fast enough to run steppers to run steppers & report back using serial
08:53 AM miss0r: :)
08:53 AM miss0r: why do you need it to report back each second?
08:53 AM diverdude: miss0r: its because i want to stamp my images with a position
08:54 AM miss0r: question: why not "pause" at each image, and pickup after that?
08:54 AM diverdude: miss0r: because speed is of the essence :/
08:55 AM miss0r: hmm.. alright. I'll need to mull this over :D I need to go pick up the kid now. I'll be back tonight
08:55 AM miss0r: see you
08:55 AM diverdude: miss0r: ok, thanks :) see you
08:55 AM rmu: you need to do step generation in an interrupt routine
08:55 AM rmu: better yet let a timer to the stepping
08:55 AM diverdude: rmu: i see - how do i do that?
08:56 AM rmu: perhaps using interrupt routine to send serial stuff would also work
08:57 AM rmu: diverdude: read ref manual to your µC (atmega328 or similar for arduinos), and program it :)
08:59 AM rmu: a bit of "dirty" solution could be: in your position reporting, send only one character per loop
08:59 AM rmu: iteration
08:59 AM diverdude: hmm ok
09:02 AM rmu: the uart needs some time to send out a character, one character has 10 bits, @ 115200 bps that means you can send 11520 characters per second. your cpu runs nearly 1400 cycles per character.
09:04 AM diverdude: ok i see... i am currently sending '{"ctype":2,"statusx":-66080,"statusy":-43620,"timestamp":"1539179481865"}' in each message
09:05 AM diverdude: so thats around 75 characters
09:05 AM rmu: that takes about 6-7ms to send
09:05 AM diverdude: right, very interesting
09:08 AM diverdude: rmu: does it take same amount of time for the arduino to recieve data as to send?
09:08 AM rmu: yes of course, it is the transmission that takes that long
09:09 AM rmu: diverdude: you should research if serial.write does some buffering, I think ATMegas have some FIFO and you can write some number of characters "at once" without delay, and the hardware transmits it in the background
09:10 AM rmu: diverdude: you could try sending e.g only 60 characters or 30 characters and look if there is a difference
09:10 AM rmu: https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=360286.0 suggests there is a 63 character output buffer
09:10 AM diverdude: rmu: yeah exactly - i was thinking that something like that could be happening...of course the actual transmission does the same...but maybe there is a buffer of some sort that can take some load of the arduino cpu
09:12 AM rmu: try making your messages shorter than 63 character, it could be that could make a difference. and dont' send more than like 10 per second
09:12 AM rmu: 10 messages per second
09:16 AM Jin|away is now known as Jin^eLD
09:24 AM diverdude: rmu: thats a good point. i will try that
09:25 AM diverdude: rmu: i can easily get it to around 50, so will try
09:44 AM CNC_Brian: Anyone there?
09:58 AM HighInBC: I am
10:03 AM gloops: problem CNC_Brian ?
10:04 AM gloops: so, i made the bandsaw frame, rollers adjusters on, i made 2 screw lifts for either side, i made the skate bearings, ready to roll
10:04 AM gloops: all i need now is to fit those together and make the bed - which is scaffolding poles and clips, easy
10:05 AM gloops: and paint it
10:06 AM CNC_Brian: No just seems very quiet on here lately
10:06 AM CNC_Brian: Must have fixed all the bugs
10:08 AM gloops: yeah some of the regulars left/died
10:09 AM CNC_Brian: Im trying to track down someone with a lathe in the south east
10:09 AM CNC_Brian: Needs to be a student size
10:09 AM gloops: no luck on ebay then
10:10 AM CNC_Brian: I don't wan to buy one I need some machining done
10:10 AM CNC_Brian: My little Chester can't cope
10:11 AM gloops: i see
10:12 AM gloops: cant help there, im in the north east - UK
10:12 AM CNC_Brian: Im after some CNC tool holders machining
10:12 AM CNC_Brian: I bought some eBay stuff but the runout is masive
10:14 AM CNC_Brian: So I bought sone EN19 bar, but the 1Hp motor can't cope with anything over .05'
10:19 AM gloops: cant gear it down?
10:19 AM gregcnc: how much of a hurry are you in?
10:20 AM rmu: is that .05 foot?
10:21 AM * gregcnc looks for my caliper with foot increments
10:22 AM gloops: i was just trying to work out .05 feet lol
10:23 AM rmu: .05 is 1/20, 1/20 of 12 inches is about 15,something millimeters
10:23 AM rmu: not bad for 1hp ;-)
10:24 AM gregcnc: all depends on surface speed?
10:25 AM gloops: thats one advantage of my centenarian lathe, backgearing, i mean you can have variable speed electric yeah, but no increase in torque
10:26 AM gloops: other than that, no advantages really, apart from looking quaint
10:27 AM gregcnc: HP determines material removal rate, unless limited by surface speed
10:28 AM gloops: well im assuming brian is saying even at the lowest speed he cant cut that diameter
10:28 AM rmu: if your chip is too small it can also be a problem
10:29 AM rmu: i.e. rubbing tool
10:29 AM gloops: which is odd to me, 15mm? 1 HP should cut that
10:29 AM gloops: these old lathes used to run on treadles
10:29 AM gregcnc: if you guys really think he's cutting .05 FEET I'm out for teh day
10:30 AM gloops: i think he means .5 feet
10:30 AM gloops: 6 inch
10:30 AM rmu: lol
10:30 AM gregcnc: it's more than i can take
10:30 AM gloops: you need more practise
10:31 AM rmu: I actually believe he means 0.05" depth of cut
10:31 AM gregcnc: of course
10:31 AM gloops: right
10:31 AM gloops: 15mm cut...
10:31 AM gloops: oh inches
10:32 AM gregcnc: gloops have you ever calculated cutting power for lathe?
10:32 AM gloops: oh yes im sure i have
10:33 AM gloops: i dont work like that though
10:33 AM gregcnc: clearly
10:33 AM gloops: i go by how it is cutting
10:34 AM gloops: theres a lot to be said for the well trained eye and ear
10:35 AM gregcnc: 80 years ago
10:36 AM gloops: you never say - that doesnt sound right, when a job is running on the cnc?
10:38 AM gregcnc: sure, but what are the solutions?
10:39 AM CNC_Brian: Sorry customer call.
10:40 AM CNC_Brian: Sorry with 50 though doc the motor is bogging down
10:40 AM gregcnc: diameter and RPM?
10:40 AM CNC_Brian: I need to take half inch of material of and it is very slow going
10:41 AM CNC_Brian: Bar is 40mm
10:41 AM CNC_Brian: EN19
10:42 AM CNC_Brian: Not 100% sure of RPM as I have it geared down almost to minimum, but I get a good chip
10:42 AM CNC_Brian: Just trying rtf find someone with a decent size lathe I can ask to rough out the parts
10:43 AM CNC_Brian: I can drive or I can pay
10:44 AM gregcnc: Ø40mm, 640RPM, 1.25mm DOC, 0.1mm feed is about 1 HP in EN19
10:47 AM gregcnc: where on the planet are you? https://www.cnczone.com/forums/rfq-request-for-quote-/
10:47 AM CNC_Brian: Gatwick area
10:47 AM CNC_Brian: UK
10:49 AM CNC_Brian: Maybe my feed rate is too high.
10:50 AM gregcnc: what is it?
10:50 AM CNC_Brian: I guess with 2 belts I loose some HP also
10:50 AM gloops: maybe the tool as well
10:56 AM gregcnc: 1HP just isn't much power I cut 4140 on my manual lathe with a 1HP motor all the time, but rarely bother trying to take more than .02" per pass
10:57 AM gloops: i swapped 2hp for 1 hp on mine, never stalled the motor
11:00 AM gregcnc: gloops FYI, to take a 15mm cut on the 40mm bar 1HP is about 50RPM
11:01 AM gloops: ahh see, thats what i said - low rpm
11:01 AM gregcnc: but nothing gets done faster
11:01 AM gloops: throw in a cast iron pulley about 2 foot accross like mine, you wont stall
11:01 AM gregcnc: and the tool and machine loads are much greater
11:02 AM gloops: just have to take his time wont he, get a stop set up and keep it running back and forth while he does something else
11:05 AM gloops: might be quicker to mill it to rough size
11:05 AM gregcnc: why
11:09 AM gloops: bigger cut possible?
11:11 AM gregcnc: only if the spindle is more than 1HP, and cutting strategy is such that it's "in the cut" as much as a lathe
11:11 AM gloops: well to rephrase - any access to a large milling machine?
11:50 AM fragalot: Hi
12:59 PM gloops: there are some shortcomings with fusion 360s voronoi pattern generator
01:01 PM gloops: mainly, there doesnt seem to be any way to edit or change a sketch once its made
01:28 PM miss0r|office: diverdude: I'm in
01:29 PM miss0r|office: goodevening gloops
01:30 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: did you hack the gibson?
01:30 PM miss0r|office: fragalot: pardon?
01:30 PM fragalot: "I'm in"
01:30 PM miss0r|office: meh
01:30 PM miss0r|office: :]
01:30 PM miss0r|office: fragalot: Today I did something I thought I would never do
01:31 PM miss0r|office: I handed in a relay coil for re winding
01:31 PM fragalot: o.O
01:31 PM miss0r|office: Yeah
01:31 PM miss0r|office: it has 10 seprate contact sets: 5 NO and 5 NC
01:31 PM miss0r|office: 110v ac
01:32 PM miss0r|office: and I can't fit more than one relay in that spot
01:32 PM miss0r|office: Plus; I needed a replacement yesterday
01:34 PM fragalot: you have re-wiring services that do time travel?
01:34 PM miss0r|office: pretty close
01:34 PM gloops: evening
01:34 PM miss0r|office: well, even *if* I found a replacement relay, chances are it would take more than two days for it to get here
01:36 PM fragalot: with the luck I have it'd take more than two days for a quote request to get looked at
01:36 PM miss0r|office: fragalot: So I am probably looking at a 500eur bill for doing a coil that measures 30x30x25ish mm :)
01:36 PM miss0r|office: hehe. Well, I was promised they'd have a look tomorrow & finish it tomorrow, should I accept the price
01:37 PM fragalot: neat. ):
01:40 PM miss0r|office: fragalot: I found something realy annoying about my cnc retrofit..
01:40 PM miss0r|office: the 'tube' that has the flexible hose mounted to it on the controller side
01:40 PM miss0r|office: well.. the steel pipe I guess. not tube
01:40 PM miss0r|office: the inner diameter of that does not allow for me to take the cables out with the plug still attached.
01:41 PM miss0r|office: Which is reasonably close to a worst case scenario
01:44 PM fragalot: cut it in half & add hinges to swing it open :P
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: miss0r|office: as a competitive quote I'll do it for 2keur and have it for you in a week
01:45 PM miss0r|office: Thought about it :D
01:46 PM fragalot: i'll hand-wrap it for you in about a week
01:46 PM fragalot: not including lead-time for me to purchase the wire
01:46 PM miss0r|office: CaptHindsight: I think you've lost :) but thanks
01:46 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
01:46 PM miss0r|office: ewell, arent you the helpful bunch :)
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: or 3000eur and ready sometime in Nov with 100 year warranty
01:47 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: not to be confused with "lifetime" warranty
01:47 PM fragalot: where "lifetime" means the lifetime of the part, not yours.
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: the 100 year is longer than lifetime, the "best" deal
01:48 PM miss0r|office: hehehe.
01:48 PM miss0r|office: CaptHindsight: Make that 300eur and tomorrow, and you've got a deal
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: I gave someone a 100 year warranty on some aluminum plate once
01:49 PM miss0r|office: "does not apply to humid environments"
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: Fedex white glove service next day to you might be $2k
01:51 PM miss0r|office: Which is a price I am willing for you to pay :)
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: I'd be honored
01:51 PM miss0r|office: haha
01:51 PM miss0r|office: Not to mention me needing to send you the part to be recoiled
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: you can just describe it over the phone
01:52 PM miss0r|office: 3D print that bugger
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: coil made with wire in kinda uh donut shape
01:53 PM miss0r|office: Trouble is, it wound around a bakelite(?name spell?) casting
01:54 PM gregcnc: this printer is tempting http://a.co/d/5flZirC
01:56 PM miss0r|office: I wonder how accurate that printer is
01:58 PM gregcnc: not sure. seems several units use the same lcd
01:59 PM miss0r|office: FOr me to even consider a 3D printer, it bette rbe accurate
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: Fedex overnight is only $125, but it gets there Friday :(
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: depends on the resin but <1%
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: if you know how much shrink the resin has you can adjust for that when printing or in CAM
02:01 PM gregcnc: have they hashed out patents or is this one expired?
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: expired, MSLA, LCD with a 405nm led behind it
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: really inefficient since you lose most of the energy in the LCD
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: LCD inactive regions first, then by the red and green dyes in the active area, then bye the blue dye (450nm) in the active pixel region used for printing
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: bye/by
02:05 PM gregcnc: i guess there are no monochrome lcd today?
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: there are, but not cheap and small
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: so they just use whatever cheap 1920 x 1080 RGB LCD
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: but hey who cares about 98% of the 50W or 25W 405nm led going to waste
02:07 PM fragalot: if it wasn't for miss0r|office I'd have a moai printer
02:07 PM fragalot: instead he twisted my arm and I wound up with a schaublin claiming half of my shed space
02:07 PM miss0r|office: fragalot: You're welcome
02:07 PM fragalot: :P
02:08 PM gregcnc: I wonder what energy usage is compared to fdm
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: was thinking drinking bet
02:08 PM fragalot: gregcnc: depends on if you have a heated bed and / or build chamber
02:08 PM gregcnc: so they're close
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: 405nm LED and one stepper vs three steppers and a heater/nozzle
02:08 PM fragalot: well your average hobby hot-end ranges from 20W to 50W
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: 50um res vs 300um
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: also print speed
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: the MSLA is much faster so power over time is less
02:10 PM fragalot: but you do need alcohol to rinse the parts after
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: 10 seconds per 100um Z layer 19cm x 10cm
02:11 PM fragalot: FDM is nice for those quick prints you just want to pop loose & use
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: ethanol is what $10/gal (4L)
02:11 PM fragalot: literally anything else is nice for print quality if you don't mind the post processing
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: alcohol rinse takes seconds
02:12 PM fragalot: curing the part takes longer
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: post cure?
02:12 PM miss0r|office: I still feel like 3D printers are best suited for middle aged single men living in their parents basement.
02:12 PM fragalot: and you have the resin still in the tank
02:12 PM fragalot: miss0r|office: haha
02:13 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: I'm not saying it's a bad tech, don't get me wrong
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, you should pout the resins back into a bottle...
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: pout/pour
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: that can take seconds to a minute
02:14 PM miss0r|office: I still have 15 minuts before the wife gets home, to make it look like I spend two hours cleaning. See you around ;)
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: or leave it in the vat if you use in the next week or four
02:14 PM * fragalot uses his FDM printer maybe every other month
02:14 PM fragalot: just click "print", do something else whilst it does it's thing, and hwen it's done, just pick up the part off of the print bed & done
02:14 PM fragalot: no clean up, no setup, it's just done
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: oh, drag out the vacuum, leave towels/rags scattered about, build up a thin layer of sweat
02:14 PM fragalot: the quality is crap
02:14 PM fragalot: but done
02:15 PM gregcnc: i keep thinking about small aluminum castings, not that I cast anything now
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: investment cast or sand?
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: ^^
02:19 PM gregcnc: investment. you've mentioned a water soluble resin in the past
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: how about a sand mold printer?
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, water soluble SLA resin
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: print pattern, coat with investment, dry few minutes, hot water rinse pattern out, dry, cast
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: or...
02:21 PM gregcnc: that's what i'm thinking
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: inkjet sand mold (2 pcs), bake few minutes, pour/cast
02:23 PM gregcnc: would probably also work
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: the sand is precoated with heat set resin, so you just inkjet the surfaces of the molds vs the entire volume of sand
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: inkjet the shell so it cores rapidly, the rest sets while baking for a few minutes
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: then the mold is ready for casting
02:27 PM gloops: yes get the green sand
02:27 PM gloops: or grind some kitty litter up and mix with washed sand
02:30 PM * fragalot needs to find himself some good impact resistant flat head bits
02:30 PM fragalot: all the ones i've tried so far either snap or get torqued when used in an impact driver to get rusty ones loose
02:32 PM gloops: question of technique
02:33 PM fragalot: not much technique to fitting the correct size bit in the slot & slowly increasing the grunt of the impact driver
02:33 PM fragalot: it's just getting harder to find not-shitty bits
02:33 PM gloops: patience, you should never use enough force to smash the tip
02:33 PM fragalot: the old ones I had lasted for years
02:34 PM fragalot: all the new ones just go to shit with the first use
02:34 PM fragalot: ergo, I'm blaming the bits
02:34 PM gloops: blame the chinese
02:35 PM gloops: well, im being urgently called away to go shopping for lillies, god help me
02:37 PM fragalot: who the hell goes shopping for lillies after 8pm :d
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: probably why all the bits I see come in packs of 12 for a few $
02:37 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: yea...
02:37 PM gregcnc: i'm getting very disappointed with the quality of anything
02:37 PM fragalot: I'm perfectly happy to pay €10 for a single bit if it's going to last the same amount of time the old black & decker set I had
02:38 PM fragalot: (ie. about a decade before I had to retire them)
02:38 PM gregcnc: was trying to find a card reader that didn't suck, so many reviews said they die after a few months
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: I've been snapping 1-2 teeth off of phillps screw drivers
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: USB hubs are similar
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: few months till death of a to all ports
02:38 PM fragalot: oh god
02:38 PM gregcnc: but why
02:39 PM fragalot: dewalt is selling "impact ready" bits
02:39 PM fragalot: which reminds me of the whole "HD ready" debacle
02:41 PM fragalot: guess I'll try wiha
02:42 PM gregcnc: sls mold printer the slow way I guess https://youtu.be/mxdWaxOoXs8
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: Chinese galvo heads are way down in price
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: cheap glass laser tube vs RF
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: customer (potential) provides specs for machine with 1m^3 work area....
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: after receiving quote asks for another with 1m^2 x 3cm Z :)
03:03 PM fragalot: 3cm Z travel, or 3cm Z clearance?
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: same in this app
03:04 PM fragalot: I just got approval for us to purchase a Deckel FP42NC to solve a similar issue
03:04 PM jthornton: some corporate guy wants me to quote him on a
03:04 PM fragalot: need to clamp large objects but need short Z travel
03:04 PM jthornton: $35 card and fill out a bunch of paperwork to "get me into the system" lol
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: jthornton: we go through that regularly, takes a month to get you into the "system"
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: no charge however, that sounds scammy
03:06 PM jthornton: he had a legit mesa card number... dunno
03:06 PM fragalot: I typically just send the order with a 0 price to get new suppliers into our system
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: there are services out there that charge to put you into lists
03:07 PM fragalot: then let finance solve the problem afterwards :D
03:07 PM jthornton: lol
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: they make a business out of taking your info and entering it onto a list
03:08 PM jthornton: didn't know that
03:08 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: similarly, you can get your "scientific" paper published in predatory publishers
03:08 PM fragalot: just so you can claim your product has been checked by a scientific paper
03:08 PM fragalot: which is "peer reviewed"
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: peers meaning Ed and Frank at the bar
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: or as in peer over the fence at your paper
03:09 PM fragalot: peer at the payment, lol
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: it is so bad now that even sam.gov makes you fill out a notarized form with the contact to modify and of your info
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: there are scammers that charge people to manage your sam.gov info
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: and/any
03:11 PM fragalot: yup, my boss helped me get my ESTA form filled out via one of those
03:11 PM fragalot: difficult to get rid of 'm
03:12 PM fragalot: even if you never clicked "submit" when you noticed the due amount was higher than it should be
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: it's near daily we get offers for some seminar on how to get guberment contracts
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: if they are so great why aren't they getting the contracts?
03:13 PM fragalot: xD
03:14 PM fragalot: getting .gov contracts is easy
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: it's like those seminars on getting rich in real estate
03:14 PM fragalot: step 1) be cheaper than others
03:14 PM fragalot: step 2) corruption.
03:16 PM diverdude: For arduino, if i want to be 100% sure that Serial.println() is sent at the time when the program reaches that line, and not sometime later, how can i ensure that? For example i do Serial.println(gcode); and nothing is printed until later. I have tried inserting delay(50) after, but it did not help
03:16 PM fragalot: you can't
03:16 PM diverdude: fragalot: hmm ok. why is that?
03:16 PM fragalot: because the serial communication to your laptop is being buffered by windows
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: friends don't let friends use winders for CNC
03:17 PM fragalot: so the arduino probably sends out the serial data exactly when you ask it to
03:17 PM fragalot: but that doesn't mean that windows will show it at that time
03:17 PM diverdude: fragalot: hmm ok - i am using linux...but probably same issue
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: <-- only interested in helping if STM32 is used or i.mx(x)
03:19 PM fragalot: agreed, STM32's are the way to go :D
03:35 PM JT-Shop: looks like the chap is with Harris Corp and does government work... what a pain in the ass for $10
03:36 PM fragalot: syyl: about to buy a used FP42NC. Any pointers what to look out for?
03:37 PM fragalot: syyl: dialog controls have been replaced with heidenhein
03:44 PM syyl: check if it has been rebuilt
03:44 PM syyl: if so: run
03:45 PM syyl: from factory the y-ram was scraped with a bow in it
03:45 PM syyl: to accomodate gravity
03:45 PM syyl: most rebuilders just grind/scrape them straight
03:45 PM syyl: and the machine will never be square in y, when moved out very far
03:45 PM fragalot: our application only needs the Y to move about 5cm, but that is VERY good advice
03:46 PM fragalot: and i'm glad I asked :D
03:46 PM syyl: plus i wouldnt want it because it has no quill
03:46 PM fragalot: the main application we're getting it for is to poke holes in electrical enclosures (stainless)
03:46 PM syyl: wow :D
03:46 PM syyl: talk overkill :D
03:47 PM fragalot: yup
03:47 PM fragalot: we've looked at almost all the other options
03:47 PM syyl: but if it gets the job done
03:47 PM syyl: go for it
03:47 PM fragalot: and there are some dedicated machines, for example from Rittal, but when I went to look at that thing
03:47 PM fragalot: it is.. garbage.
03:47 PM syyl: i heard there are some issues with the head
03:47 PM syyl: they can run hot
03:47 PM fragalot: 120k entry price, and it needs to cut at 0.04m/min in stainless
03:47 PM fragalot: or it shits the bed
03:47 PM syyl: but i have no special knowledge on that
03:48 PM fragalot: alright
03:48 PM syyl: and as with all deckel machines
03:48 PM syyl: check the central lubrication
03:48 PM syyl: and if the ways are gauged
03:48 PM syyl: uhm
03:48 PM syyl: not gauged
03:48 PM fragalot: we're not going to have a huge spindle time so I don't think the spindle running hot is going to be an issue
03:48 PM syyl: whats the word
03:48 PM fragalot: damaged :P
03:48 PM syyl: galled
03:49 PM fragalot: how easy is it to see the ways of an FP42NC?
03:49 PM syyl: when those machines are used for machining a lot of small details, they totaly tend to gall the ways
03:49 PM fragalot: last time I looked they were completely hidden
03:49 PM syyl: you might have to move the bellows in X
03:49 PM syyl: on y you can just move the ram completely out
03:49 PM syyl: in Z, no idea :D
03:49 PM fragalot: :D
04:01 PM Deejay: gn8
04:20 PM pink_vampire: someone here can help me with tkinter
04:23 PM jthornton: we just ask the question not ask to ask
04:25 PM pink_vampire: I'm trying to edit the tkinter interface and make it work with media keys (Mute and Explorer) instead of shift for max jog
04:27 PM pink_vampire: I also tried to remap the as Control ans Shift, and it worked fine all over, but not in linux cnc. it just ignore it.
04:31 PM jthornton: that's above my pay grade
05:30 PM laminae_: Hey guys, i picked up these parker stages and i'm looking to put them into a machine for cutting alum, carbon plate and g10 plate. For the last two i definitely know i will need to use flood cooling for tools and inhalation hazard and i would love to hear any suggestions
05:31 PM laminae_: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/493832339538051098/495065760834781184/20180927_191019.jpg
05:31 PM laminae_: It seems like most readily available material comes in 400mm x 800mm for large plate in carbon
05:33 PM laminae_: This is my cnc router build, some minor additions to this since but enough to work from, i could take the two identical stages and replace the y and then put the remaining stage in z and still have to pick up another actuator at some point
05:33 PM laminae_: Or do a whole new build
05:33 PM laminae_: https://imgur.com/a/43JtOmR
05:33 PM laminae_: Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated
05:34 PM laminae_: worth noting, current cutting area on the cnc router is 500mm x 1000mm and the parker actuators are 16in travel
05:38 PM laminae_: Additional consideration, my research thus far seems to indicate i will need slower moving spindle for alum than the carbon and g10 but i'm having difficulty identifying one that will suit my needs, too many options and a lot of them seem to be poorly made knockoffs of a superior product and i'm not opposed to paying a bit for a quality tool
05:40 PM pink_vampire: laminae_: amazing stuff
05:40 PM laminae_: The parker stages? i know i am extremely impressed with them
05:41 PM laminae_: Waaaaay better than poly carbonite bearings
05:41 PM pink_vampire: where did you got them?
05:41 PM pink_vampire: also see PM
05:42 PM laminae_: A friend of mine works at a industrial 3d printing llc and they upgraded machines
05:42 PM laminae_: He gave me the whole pile for 600 bucks and a little bit of cncing him some small stuff
06:26 PM CaptHindsight: laminae_: are the stages with ballscrews or lead screws?
06:28 PM Tom_L: evening peeps
06:28 PM laminae_: Ballscrews
06:28 PM CaptHindsight: the one in the middle without the cover looks like a ballscrew
06:28 PM laminae_: I actually have the par tnumbers, one sec
06:28 PM CaptHindsight: laminae_: do you have the motors and drives as well or just the motors?
06:29 PM laminae_: Just the motors and those motors definitely aren't up to cutting
06:29 PM laminae_: these were used for optical alignment
06:29 PM CaptHindsight: possibly glass scales on the sides of a few of the drives?
06:29 PM laminae_: So i'm going to need to put something bigger on there
06:30 PM CaptHindsight: the parker ball screws can move pretty quick and handle some torque
06:30 PM CaptHindsight: whats the pitch? 5mm?
06:31 PM laminae_: 106041S_10AELH 106041C_10E 106041C 406101S 506161_LHO_B 106041C_10EIHC 506016_STES 106004CTEPL
06:31 PM laminae_: in order from left to right
06:31 PM CaptHindsight: I have used lots of Parker
06:32 PM laminae_: I'd jave to find the datasheet but that's in the neighborhood
06:33 PM laminae_: the small ones definitely aren't rated for machining
06:33 PM laminae_: I think i might use the motors on a 4 axis hotwire though
07:24 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L