#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 23 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:18 AM Deejay: moin
02:55 AM trentster: Ello all.
02:56 AM Deejay: hellow there
02:57 AM trentster: my new cnc router machine is complete, only issue I have is racking on dual stepper Y axis. I am using 2.7 and have 2 drivers wired to the same step and direction pins on the BOB. Machine homes to 1 proximity sensor on the one side only. Homeing works fine and machine works fine until it starts to raped and then racking occurs.
02:57 AM trentster: I was told to go to 2.8 with dual homing, but I am wondering how this will prevent racking if its currently occuring.
02:57 AM trentster: Any recommendations.
03:01 AM trentster: lol Raped = Rapid (typo)
03:02 AM XXCoder: racking = both sides isnt matching each other in movements?
03:03 AM trentster: Yup
03:03 AM trentster: not sure why tho, using same ballscrews, etc
03:03 AM XXCoder: so lemme picture this correctly BOB => two seperate drivers => two steppers for Y?
03:03 AM trentster: and almost identical Leadshine drivers
03:04 AM trentster: XXCoder: yup correct
03:04 AM XXCoder: both drivers got suffecent power?
03:05 AM trentster: 2 seperate 48V power supplies
03:05 AM XXCoder: unfortunately im out of debugging ideas
03:05 AM trentster: XXCoder: thanks for trying mate
03:05 AM XXCoder: welcome
03:18 AM gloops: trentster thats the wrong way to run a gantry with linuxcnc
03:19 AM gloops: use 2.8
03:27 AM gloops: racking is also a feature of gantries, it is going to rack, same power, same driver same signal blah blah - but not the same mechanical situation on either side, and different cutting forces etc
03:51 AM gloops: (you are not homing the gantry btw)
03:51 AM XXCoder: hey trentster ?
03:53 AM trentster: sorry back now.
03:54 AM trentster: gloops: you saying problem will resolve with 2.8 or racking will occur regardless?
03:55 AM gloops: what im saying is, on a gantry, when the limits of the motors are reached - it will rack, thats just what they do
03:55 AM trentster: XXCoder: yeah… were you calling me about gloops reply?
03:55 AM gloops: im not sure what is causing the racking on your machine
03:55 AM trentster: gloops: define limits of motor is reached?
03:55 AM gloops: if it is racking on rapids, im guessing you have acceleration too high
03:56 AM gloops: trentster when one motor stalls or begins to lose steps - not enough torque to complete the task
03:57 AM trentster: Tomorrow I will swap both steppers to use identical Leadshine drivers. At the moment they are using slightly different ones. I will also hard set the driver amperage instead of leaving it to default. I will also put them both onto the same PSU(just incase its related)
03:57 AM gloops: on a gantry one motor loses steps, the gantry is now out of square, that puts pressure on the linear bearings/ballscrews, makes it harder to push
03:57 AM gloops: motor loses more steps, one side well out now - vicious circle, gantry jams
03:58 AM trentster: so, solution is to drive down the center with a single ballscrew, which kind of precludes big cnc routers being used.
03:58 AM gloops: the homing is important - you need to home each side indendently
03:59 AM gloops: no you can use 2 screws fine, just be aware of the limits
03:59 AM trentster: gloops: the limits being it will rack eventually?
03:59 AM gloops: i mean if a single screw loses position the job is still done for, it just doesnt jam the machine
04:00 AM gloops: yes you especially need to work within the motors limits with a gantry, use bigger motors or be sensible with speed/feed whatever
04:01 AM gloops: the 2.8 is better, you get independent homing, and duplicate signals
04:01 AM trentster: Can I upgrade to 2.8 safely from 2.7?
04:02 AM trentster: or does it require a totally new stepconf setup etc?
04:02 AM gloops: yeah, you can find it with synaptic, the config is slightly more complicated though
04:03 AM gloops: with 2.7 you are only homing 1 motor really, if one side has already lost steps, it will keep lost steps, you start off out of position even when homed
04:03 AM trentster: fyi this is the machine ive build, designed from scratch, just so we know what we are talking about: ;-)
04:03 AM gloops: 2.8 both motors are brought bang back to home, you start off in perfect position
04:03 AM trentster: http://take.ms/McdHI
04:04 AM trentster: http://take.ms/zvsgY
04:04 AM gloops: that should work fine id say
04:05 AM trentster: Yeah it works great except for the racking. I guess I should be homing from both sides and will land up installing 2.8
04:06 AM gloops: someone in here just did it last week with no problems, hes not here now
04:06 AM gloops: youll probably want a bit of help with the config if you do it
04:08 AM trentster: gloops: yeah, that's why I have been reluctant to pull the trigger on 2.8, I can see weeks of painful wasted time in my future. ;-)
04:08 AM trentster: But I guess I don't have much choice now.
04:09 AM gloops: nah its not hard, if you have looked at the hal and ini files at all before
04:09 AM trentster: gloops: you remember the name of the person that did it.
04:09 AM gloops: i cant atm, something Turbo i think
04:09 AM trentster: This should help a lot: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/33079-how-to-2-or-more-motors-on-one-axis-gantry-linuxcnc-2-8-master
04:10 AM gloops: ive got a router working on 2.8 gantry
04:10 AM gloops: yeah thats the tutorial i used, 98% of the info is there
04:12 AM gloops: oh..the thing with updating to 2.8 - if you have any 2.7 configs you want to save - save them, it updates all configs i think as well
04:18 AM trentster: Thanks, I will save them for sure.
04:19 AM trentster: gloops: do you know of a decent how to for updating, I assume it involves adding repos for 2.8 and then doing an apt-get upgrade
04:28 AM gloops: search for linuxcnc on synaptic, look for 2.8 master, it upgrades auto as i remember
04:29 AM gloops: not got it on this pc id have to look on the 2.8 computer how i got it
04:58 AM trentster: gloops: thanks for your help.
05:38 AM jthornton: morning
05:38 AM XXCoder: yo
05:50 AM Jin|away is now known as Jin^eLD
05:50 AM Jin^eLD: morning
05:57 AM Tom_L: hi
05:58 AM Tom_L: 57F Hi 79
05:58 AM Tom_L: coolin down a bit
06:18 AM jthornton: we are 61 with a high of 72 and rain
08:28 AM gloops: trentster it was Blumax who did gantry config last week
09:25 AM Blumax: gloops, i'm here !
09:26 AM Blumax: trentster, do you want my configuration files that works?
10:07 AM nubcake is now known as nubcake_
10:07 AM nubcake_ is now known as nubcake
10:45 AM nubcake is now known as nubcake_
10:45 AM nubcake_ is now known as nubcake
11:47 AM fragalot: 'sup
12:00 PM miss0r: 'evening
12:01 PM fragalot: miss0r: rate my setup. https://photos.app.goo.gl/avGAWvTLJ2owa34s5
12:02 PM miss0r: Damn sturdy if I ever saw one :D
12:02 PM fragalot: crash proof too
12:02 PM miss0r: yeah :D hows'it readin?
12:02 PM rene_dev_: fragalot philips scales?
12:02 PM fragalot: worked well enough, lol
12:02 PM fragalot: miss0r: https://photos.app.goo.gl/P2PYawTnxUVzYdYm9
12:03 PM fragalot: rene_dev_: "M-DRO" chinesium.. seems to work well enough for me
12:03 PM rene_dev_: ah
12:03 PM fragalot: actually the tape seemed to be a high quality brand but I can't remember what it was
12:04 PM miss0r: fragalot: That looks pretty damn good :)
12:04 PM fragalot: i found a software bug in the display though
12:05 PM * miss0r is working on a rush order :) I have to change a 105mm socket with a 1" square hole to a 1" square hole :)
12:05 PM fragalot: if you hit "angle", and select XY plane it works fine
12:05 PM fragalot: but if you select YZ plane, it asks for a diameter
12:05 PM miss0r: hmm
12:05 PM miss0r: You sure its not a 'feature' ? :)
12:05 PM fragalot: going to email them to ask, lol
12:06 PM fragalot: https://photos.app.goo.gl/K2ayzqtYdi2heMh98 YZ plane
12:07 PM fragalot: https://photos.app.goo.gl/vseBGtQBiVUV81FH6 XY plane
12:08 PM miss0r: odd
12:21 PM miss0r: fragalot: Have you tested the acuracy of the movement with a dial indicator?
12:29 PM MrHindsight: https://imgur.com/gallery/SMmyiK0
12:31 PM Tom_L: no cutting oil?
12:33 PM fragalot: not always needed
12:34 PM Tom_L: i would on a hss tool blank
12:52 PM Rab: Consider that it's only a 50% duty cycle (maybe a little more, return stroke looks faster).
12:52 PM Rab: But the tool is not continuously engaged.
01:02 PM flyback: that's what she said
01:02 PM * flyback laps rab
01:02 PM Rab: booom
01:03 PM flyback: slaps
01:36 PM miss0r: There we go. "upgraded" a 105mm top from 1 inch socket to 1 inch socket. The customer broke the 1" drive for the hydraulic tool, and needed it working *NOW* :) Here the time is 20:35 https://imgur.com/a/H8BPSEH
01:37 PM miss0r: MrHindsight: Do you know who is doing that shaper work? it looks interresting
01:39 PM fragalot: miss0r: neat :-)
01:40 PM miss0r: Thanks
01:40 PM miss0r: fragalot: Did you measure the precision of your magnetic strip with a dial indicator?
01:40 PM fragalot: did you make it a machinists' fit, or is it fancy to allow a greater pressure transfer?
01:40 PM fragalot: miss0r: not yet - I got tired of tripping over everything & started cleaning up
01:40 PM fragalot: will try tomorrow
01:41 PM miss0r: I know the feeling :) You'll then be pleased to learn that I have kept the shop clean as a whistle for the past 14 days :D
01:41 PM miss0r: well.. a whistle with some crud & chips in the corners :P
01:41 PM fragalot: I tried to get everything out the door yesterday to the tip but got sidetracked
01:41 PM fragalot: (ie. grandma called "can you help tile the driveway in the rain"
01:41 PM miss0r: Worst part about cleaning :D lol
01:41 PM miss0r: meh, not what I was thinking ;)
01:42 PM fragalot: and the GF "can you hook up that water softener"?)
01:42 PM fragalot: turns out also that you need to go to 4 different DIY shops to get the right fittings these days
01:42 PM miss0r: In my cleaning I always stumble across something I would like to do something to before putting it back in place.. so I end up doing that and forget about the cleaning :)
01:42 PM Tom_L: go to the old corner hardware store and get it all
01:42 PM miss0r: haha.. I know that feeling
01:42 PM fragalot: Tom_L: that shut down
01:43 PM fragalot: in fact, 2 shut down
01:43 PM Tom_L: mine did too
01:43 PM Tom_L: it was a sad day
01:43 PM fragalot: one of which had a very nice slection of hardwoods
01:43 PM fragalot: new one doesn't even carry pine
01:43 PM miss0r: wtf
01:43 PM fragalot: and, as it turns out, no 1" fittings
01:43 PM Tom_L: they carry what they figure the average dumb sh** can do on a weekend
01:43 PM fragalot: 1/2" only, and even then it's limited to things nobody actually needs
01:44 PM fragalot: and then people wonder why I always order everything online >*>
01:44 PM fragalot: because the local wholesalers always tell me they really prefer not to sell to me
01:44 PM Tom_L: i've still got a few wholesalers that sell to me which is handy
01:44 PM fragalot: (and they're only open 9-16)
01:45 PM miss0r: what the hell kind of hardware store is that?
01:45 PM miss0r: That is pretty good for nothing
01:45 PM fragalot: not hardware store, professional industry supply dealers
01:45 PM Tom_L: i take that route as much as i can cause then you don't gotta deal with some dumbshit kid assigned to that department
01:45 PM fragalot: the hardware stores are open 10:18 typically
01:46 PM miss0r: 9-16 is just an odd timeframe
01:46 PM miss0r: The professional ones around here are like 6-15:30
01:46 PM fragalot: Tom_L: yeah, but the €15 shipping on that €0.85 fitting is murder.
01:46 PM Tom_L: no i mean wholesalers
01:46 PM fragalot: miss0r: some have similar hours to that, but not many
01:47 PM fragalot: miss0r: P.S. who thought a 1" drive was OK on a nut that size?
01:47 PM miss0r: I asked him about that as well.. hehe
01:47 PM Tom_L: took my old P166 apart this am and resoldered the ide connectors. working like a champ again
01:47 PM miss0r: He told me: it was meant for a.. I don't recall the name: the pneumatic one that hits it alot of times...
01:47 PM miss0r: I can't remember.. hehe
01:48 PM Tom_L: skull cracker?
01:48 PM miss0r: But in that case the torque would work fine. But he is using it with a hydraulic driver
01:48 PM miss0r: impact driver I think it is called
01:48 PM Tom_L: yeah
01:48 PM miss0r: fragalot: You like the touch with the cold blue in the new socket? :)
01:49 PM fragalot: picture too dark to see that :P
01:49 PM miss0r: not realy.. the surface is just pitch black :D
01:50 PM fragalot: :)
01:50 PM miss0r: OR I am using my camera phone which has both oil residue & scratches on the lense.. That is what I call a quality picture :P
01:53 PM fragalot: anyway - magnetic scales are so much easier to install than glass ones :P
01:53 PM fragalot: no "oh god I hope I aligned this *PERFECTY* the first time" thoughts before you hear the scraping noise
01:54 PM miss0r: :]
01:54 PM miss0r: The magnetic ones are alot less likely to break :)
04:51 PM Jin^eLD is now known as Jin|away
04:52 PM Deejay: gn8
06:45 PM infornography: Why doesn't linuxcnc come with a calculator? *thonk*
07:35 PM pink_vampire: infornography: you can use math in your g code
07:36 PM infornography: :(
07:37 PM pink_vampire: for example g0 x[#5420/2]
07:38 PM pink_vampire: that will read the dro value of the X axis, and will divide it by 2, and move the machine to that location on the X axis.
07:38 PM pink_vampire: infornography: ^
07:40 PM infornography: That's pretty cool, but I still would like a calculator. It's ok I can install one, it just seems odd that it is missing
07:40 PM infornography: WHats the #5420?
07:42 PM Tom_L: a variable
07:44 PM infornography: *thonk*
07:56 PM pink_vampire: infornography: you mean like calc.exe in windows?
07:58 PM infornography: like Galculator
08:00 PM pink_vampire: just install it.
08:01 PM infornography: i did
08:01 PM pink_vampire: so problem solved?
08:02 PM pink_vampire: I have very big issue with fonts
08:02 PM pink_vampire: someone know how to make OLF fonts?
08:02 PM infornography: I installed linuxcnc on a machine at work with no internet, it frustrates me sometimes. The lack of a calculator was the last thing I remember
08:03 PM MarcelineVQ: I just type in python2 in a terminal when​ I need a quick calc
08:04 PM infornography: :O that's pretty sweet
08:04 PM pink_vampire: I tried to create it in inkscape, but there is a bug in the SVG font editor that close open line.. so it is no longer One Line Font
08:04 PM pink_vampire: here you can see the original line, and in yellow I marked the "bug" in the SVG font editor https://i.imgur.com/vO6HzUK
08:05 PM pink_vampire: fter converting the SVG font to TTF the "extra line" shoe embedded in the letter, https://i.imgur.com/PuoZoUl.png
08:05 PM pink_vampire: here is other OLF font that I have just to show you how OLF font look https://i.imgur.com/DwfEZMK.png
08:18 PM norias: hi
08:18 PM pink_vampire: hi
08:19 PM norias: how are you?
08:20 PM pink_vampire: working on some font issue that i have
08:20 PM infornography: ello
08:20 PM norias: font issue?
08:20 PM norias: hi infornography
08:23 PM pink_vampire: norias: see pm
08:23 PM norias: ?
08:23 PM norias: i see nothing
08:38 PM pink_vampire: something is weird, same font look different in solidworks and inkscape
08:38 PM pink_vampire: the font is "OLF SimpleSansOC"
08:38 PM pink_vampire: in solidworks https://i.imgur.com/DwfEZMK.png
08:39 PM pink_vampire: in inkscape https://i.imgur.com/QPt9MND.png
09:02 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire: its turning into enclosed drawing
09:02 PM XXCoder: it looks like it jusr connects toget ends
09:03 PM pink_vampire: i know,
09:03 PM XXCoder: you could convert it to lines then remove unnesscary lines
09:03 PM pink_vampire: I'm trying to make my own OLF font, and it add that extra line and close it.
09:03 PM XXCoder: strange
09:05 PM pink_vampire: I tried to use the inkscape "SVG font editor" to generate my OLF font,
09:05 PM norias: btw
09:05 PM norias: i feel compelled to mention here
09:05 PM norias: genericslides.com
09:05 PM norias: i love them
09:05 PM XXCoder: your site?
09:06 PM norias: no
09:06 PM norias: just one i think is pretty neat and useful
09:07 PM XXCoder: no prices.
09:07 PM XXCoder: I cant afford anything there
09:07 PM norias: lol
09:07 PM pink_vampire: 6 hours from NY
09:09 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: This is the test letter that i did in inkscape, https://i.imgur.com/vO6HzUK.png and you caan see the "bug
09:09 PM pink_vampire: " in yellow
09:09 PM XXCoder: yeah
09:10 PM pink_vampire: and this is in solidworks as TTF https://i.imgur.com/PuoZoUl.png
09:10 PM XXCoder: I wonfder if font require enclosed drawings
09:10 PM pink_vampire: I have other TTF fonts that are not close,
09:11 PM XXCoder: it works fine in inkscape?
09:11 PM pink_vampire: some do
09:11 PM XXCoder: strange. I wonder whats difference
09:13 PM pink_vampire: I wonder too
09:13 PM XXCoder: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/716676
09:13 PM pink_vampire: how i can send you file?
09:14 PM pink_vampire: Martin Owens (doctormo) on 2013-07-05 Changed in inkscape: status: Confirmed → Fix Committed
09:15 PM XXCoder: it was pretty old issue so not surpised its fixed
09:15 PM XXCoder: "Inkscape does automatically close the path of poorly formed TTF fonts."
09:16 PM XXCoder: check if there is "engraving type" setting somewhere in font creation
09:17 PM pink_vampire: "engraving type"? where? in font editor?
09:17 PM XXCoder: maybe, I never made any font so I wouldnt know where it would appear in, if such exists
09:18 PM pink_vampire: do you have inkscape?
09:18 PM XXCoder: yeah a second
09:18 PM XXCoder: its open, wjere do I start making font?
09:19 PM pink_vampire: click on text > svg font editor > new
09:20 PM pink_vampire: but it is much easyer to do it with a "starter font file"
09:20 PM XXCoder: okay new section appeared
09:20 PM pink_vampire: https://dl.orangedox.com/nrhvu9ftyIudjWMSdD?dl=1
09:21 PM pink_vampire: download this svg file, and then open it in inskscape and open the font editor
09:21 PM XXCoder: yeah its open and dialog open
09:22 PM pink_vampire: do you see the letters?
09:22 PM XXCoder: yeah and prewview is messed up
09:23 PM pink_vampire: ignore the preview
09:24 PM XXCoder: if I enable fill it looks sane as preview
09:24 PM XXCoder: I dont seem to find anything yet
09:24 PM pink_vampire: now if you save it as svg file. and upload it to a website like https://onlinefontconverter.com/ you can make a TTF font
09:24 PM norias: hmm
09:24 PM norias: how many folks around here have sherline mills?
09:25 PM XXCoder: inkscape crashed lol
09:25 PM XXCoder: okay recovered lol
09:26 PM Tom_L: i do/did
09:26 PM XXCoder: all of em is named "glyph 2"
09:26 PM Tom_L: norias, the only thing i salvaged from it was the spindle for now
09:26 PM norias: Tom_L: oh, what happened?
09:27 PM XXCoder: changed width to 500
09:27 PM Tom_L: norias, that: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/spindle_cooler/Mill1.jpg
09:27 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: it is not perfect.. but i did some nice fonts with it (not OLF)
09:28 PM norias: Tom_L: did you not like the sherline components?
09:28 PM Tom_L: no
09:28 PM norias: why not? is this common?
09:28 PM Tom_L: too flimzy
09:28 PM pink_vampire: Tom_L: there is only sherline spindle in your picture
09:28 PM Tom_L: i said i salvaged it
09:28 PM norias: but the spindle is good?
09:28 PM pink_vampire: norias: i have g0704
09:28 PM Tom_L: norias, it works but it's underpowered
09:29 PM norias: i'm kinda doing market research here
09:29 PM norias: i sort of want to make / market / sell my own hobby machine
09:29 PM norias: probably around the size of the sherline
09:29 PM pink_vampire: travel - too small.
09:29 PM Tom_L: i've had it for many years but finally decided to make a decent one
09:29 PM norias: right on
09:30 PM pink_vampire: i think 6040 is better
09:30 PM XXCoder: uploading to that site
09:30 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_VMC.jpg
09:30 PM Tom_L: so that was the plan
09:30 PM norias: looks decent
09:31 PM norias: lots of weldments?
09:31 PM Tom_L: yeah
09:31 PM Tom_L: but at least it's not box aluminum bolted together
09:31 PM norias: yeah
09:31 PM pink_vampire: norias: what do you want to make?
09:31 PM Tom_L: just made it from salvage scraps
09:31 PM norias: so sherline is all aluminum?
09:32 PM Tom_L: yep
09:32 PM norias: huh
09:32 PM Tom_L: plastic gibs
09:32 PM norias: no kidding
09:32 PM norias: i guess, to hit that $1,000 price point
09:32 PM norias: it almost has to be
09:32 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire: yeah weird look when ttf
09:33 PM Tom_L: there are dozens out there go good luck
09:33 PM pink_vampire: the HF mill I think it is better
09:33 PM Tom_L: so*
09:33 PM XXCoder: I made "bold" verson of your font
09:33 PM XXCoder: 16 px thickness
09:33 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: LOL
09:33 PM norias: Tom_L: thanks
09:34 PM Tom_L: i can cut steel but it's pushing it
09:34 PM pink_vampire: norias: what materials are you going to cut?
09:35 PM norias: i'm thinking plastic, aluminum, mild steel
09:35 PM norias: dunno, pretty early in my research
09:35 PM pink_vampire: norias: https://i.imgur.com/s6uVWkK.png
09:35 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire: ah! https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/91837/convert-svg-files-to-ttf
09:35 PM Tom_L: you'll want something at least that heavy then
09:35 PM norias: Tom_L: as heavy as what?
09:35 PM XXCoder: point 2 in illustrator, element/font info/layers
09:35 PM Tom_L: mine
09:35 PM norias: oh, ok
09:36 PM norias: i'm kinda looking for... what do people even want?
09:36 PM XXCoder: probably need to edit it in fontforge
09:36 PM norias: and at what price point?
09:36 PM Tom_L: entry level get wood routers
09:36 PM Tom_L: serious ones get old mills and retrofit them
09:36 PM pink_vampire: what is fontforge??
09:36 PM norias: it looks like a sherline CNC goes for $3k ish
09:36 PM XXCoder: i dont know, that site menions it
09:36 PM norias: and you say it's not good
09:37 PM pink_vampire: https://fontforge.github.io/en-US/
09:37 PM XXCoder: looks like its some setting in ttf
09:37 PM norias: so, maybe $5-6k for good is ok?
09:37 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't buy another one
09:37 PM Tom_L: but i've had it a good 25 yrs
09:37 PM norias: why wouldn't you buy another?
09:37 PM Tom_L: not heavy enough for me
09:37 PM norias: ok
09:37 PM Tom_L: small workspace
09:38 PM norias: why not tormach?
09:38 PM Tom_L: barely cuts aluminum
09:38 PM Tom_L: no reason really. i wanted to build one and have a low budget
09:39 PM pink_vampire: tormach is nice but it is dovetail, and very short X axis
09:39 PM norias: right on
09:39 PM norias: what's wrong with dovetail?
09:40 PM XXCoder: I watched one video of guy ranting about tomach issues
09:40 PM norias: ha!
09:40 PM pink_vampire: the cnc motion kill them unevenly
09:41 PM Wolf__: XXCoder: the guy who tried to get one for light industrial use?
09:41 PM Tom_L: just about everything someone builds to sell out there is a gantry design
09:41 PM XXCoder: Wolf__: no idea?
09:41 PM XXCoder: its been a bit since I last saw
09:41 PM pink_vampire: norias: I just get 60K spindle. you will be happy.
09:42 PM norias: heh
09:42 PM pink_vampire: or not https://i.imgur.com/V0OQTqd.png
09:42 PM Tom_L: pink_vampire until you try to tap with it or drill holes
09:42 PM XXCoder: 60k rpm?
09:42 PM XXCoder: flying tools is so fun
09:42 PM Tom_L: could have been your eye
09:42 PM Wolf__: HF spindle isnt the answer to everything
09:43 PM pink_vampire: not so fast, i have PP
09:43 PM pink_vampire: Wolf__: the slow spindle is much better ad can compactor
09:43 PM pink_vampire: as*
09:44 PM Wolf__: XXCoder: https://youtu.be/FtnaqJuJ9kw this is the vid that came to mind about tormach rants
09:44 PM XXCoder: yep him
09:44 PM XXCoder: mr shiny eyes
09:44 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: lol
09:45 PM norias: oh good
09:45 PM norias: tormach rant
09:45 PM norias: i like this
09:46 PM Wolf__: he makes a good point to get a Haas in another video lol
09:46 PM norias: lol
09:46 PM XXCoder: haas ehhh
09:46 PM XXCoder: never really liked em
09:46 PM norias: haas is fine
09:46 PM XXCoder: in least its not hurco
09:47 PM norias: lol
09:47 PM pink_vampire: norias: if your material is a sheet form - get something like 6040, if you need to place a 4-6" machinist vise, you need a benchtop mill.
09:47 PM XXCoder: my first professional run I started with some ancient machine then hurco
09:47 PM XXCoder: thought those was fine
09:47 PM norias: pink_vampire: i think you misunderstand
09:47 PM norias: i'm not buying a machine
09:47 PM norias: i'm designing / making / selling a machine
09:47 PM norias: maybe
09:47 PM XXCoder: till I ran fadal 88. this machine is ancient and still better than hurco
09:47 PM Wolf__: 6” machine vise isnt going on a bench top
09:49 PM pink_vampire: i have the 5" and sure you can put 6" it will take half of the table..
09:49 PM Wolf__: and eat all the Z travel on a bench top mill
09:50 PM pink_vampire: it will take few inches.
09:50 PM pink_vampire: so from 12" you will get 6" for tools
09:53 PM Wolf__: norias: i think it really comes down to what your end user target is..
09:53 PM Wolf__: for what type/size machine
09:53 PM norias: Wolf__: yeah, i think you are right
09:54 PM norias: i'm thinking it might make more sense to compete with tormach
09:56 PM Wolf__: x1 taig sherline sized machine might be ok for a hobbyist, maybe something hair smaller then a 770 but designed at the core to be a cnc only might be a good start
09:57 PM norias: makes sense
09:58 PM norias: let me look that up
09:58 PM norias: oh, tormach 770
09:58 PM Wolf__: pretty sure the tormach machines are all actually cnc conversions
09:59 PM pink_vampire: Wolf__: they are.
09:59 PM norias: the tormach 440 is smaller
09:59 PM norias: i think that's about what i'd be targetting
10:00 PM norias: seems roughly the same working area as the taig's
10:00 PM norias: or sherline
10:00 PM norias: (i really don't know this market, yet)
10:00 PM pink_vampire: i did a comperation between my g0704 and the tormach 440, and the g0704 is longer on the X, higher on the Z, faster with the servos, ans cost less.
10:02 PM norias: how much do they cost w/ cnc?
10:02 PM pink_vampire: if you convert it is is up to you,
10:03 PM norias: uh, i see
10:03 PM norias: yeah, i would not even touch trying to sell a manual machine
10:03 PM norias: this would be cnc from the start
10:04 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42tJFkSUoiU interesting
10:19 PM Jymmm: XXCoder: slicing a tomatoe, not bad at all for rebar
10:19 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:19 PM XXCoder: rebar is all mystery metal
10:19 PM Jymmm: XXCoder: what did he spray on it ? patina something???
10:19 PM XXCoder: and it isnt even same across entire length
10:19 PM XXCoder: no idea
10:19 PM Jymmm: heh
10:19 PM XXCoder: it looked darker where he didnt grind after spray so I guess so?
10:22 PM Tom_L: norias make sure it's got a tool changer :)
10:23 PM XXCoder: yes!
10:23 PM norias: that's what i'm thinking
10:23 PM norias: it's not worth doing without a tool changer
10:23 PM Tom_L: small collet holders with retention knobs
10:23 PM XXCoder: norias: what is your machine price range?
10:23 PM pink_vampire: Tom_L: it is not very practical if you only make one part
10:23 PM norias: i'm looking at what other machines sell for
10:23 PM norias: i think i'm going to have to do the tormach price range
10:23 PM Tom_L: pink_vampire, neither is cnc
10:24 PM norias: what, like around $10k
10:24 PM pink_vampire: get hass mini mill
10:24 PM norias: those are more like $40k
10:24 PM XXCoder: 10k is bit above my range drat
10:24 PM norias: XXCoder, ok i'm curious
10:25 PM XXCoder: used ones is too much work to get working
10:25 PM Tom_L: a bit above quite a few's budget
10:25 PM norias: what is your price range
10:25 PM norias: and what do you expect for it?
10:25 PM pink_vampire: they start at 20K~
10:25 PM XXCoder: nothing you can sell and expect profit unfortunately lol I know im not being relistic
10:25 PM norias: (although, obviously tormach does business at $10k)
10:25 PM norias: XXCoder: who knows, try me.
10:25 PM norias: it's all market research, right now
10:26 PM XXCoder: though it would be interesting to see machine like pocketnc but with only 3 axes and lower price point
10:26 PM norias: i've played with tormach's before, and i know i can crush them
10:26 PM pink_vampire: norias: those also very good machines http://www.syilamerica.com/
10:26 PM XXCoder: and addons to add one of rotatry axes
10:26 PM pink_vampire: http://www.syilamerica.com/x7
10:26 PM XXCoder: 6.5k for small machine interesting
10:27 PM norias: pink_vampire: good link, thanks.
10:27 PM XXCoder: norias: I hope my job shop gives away office mill haas lol
10:27 PM norias: heh
10:27 PM XXCoder: tiny machine but it can be plugged in to 220v
10:27 PM pink_vampire: https://cdn.websites.hibu.com/cd4c76c281e24170afeecfab662cee61/dms3rep/multi/mobile/X7-STANDARD.jpg
10:28 PM norias: haas doesn't do the office mill anymore
10:28 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj1goyp9Spg
10:28 PM XXCoder: its at their site
10:29 PM pink_vampire: cm1
10:29 PM pink_vampire: cm2
10:29 PM pink_vampire: norias: https://www.haascnc.com/machines/vertical-mills/compact-mills.html
10:30 PM norias: huh. i thought they stopped
10:30 PM XXCoder: one in video is more modern version than ones at work
10:30 PM XXCoder: ones at work is belige
10:30 PM pink_vampire: look what "amazing " cutting quality https://www.haascnc.com/content/dam/haascnc/machines/vertical-mills/compact/assets/Features3Slant_CompactMill01.jpg/jcr:content/renditions/original.jpg
10:30 PM norias: lol
10:31 PM norias: i like the workholding, thought
10:31 PM XXCoder: middle one way too much sideload for machine
10:31 PM norias: though
10:31 PM XXCoder: last one is decent
10:31 PM XXCoder: it might be just roughing in middle though
10:31 PM XXCoder: anyway om is NOT prouction machine
10:31 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: also the dent in holder
10:32 PM XXCoder: we made thousands of parts in those, and both machine needed servicing and expensive ones too
10:32 PM XXCoder: ya that happens, someone wasnt carefu
10:32 PM pink_vampire: I think it is mount on 4/5 axis
10:32 PM XXCoder: it is
10:33 PM pink_vampire: why i'm not making the last part for my spindle?? whyyyy
10:34 PM pink_vampire: i need to index it in 60 degrees on my mill and drill 3 holes
10:36 PM norias: ok
10:36 PM norias: well
10:36 PM norias: i should sleep
10:36 PM XXCoder: later :)
10:37 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: do you have an idea?
10:37 PM XXCoder: is it only one side at 60 degrees?
10:37 PM pink_vampire: 3 sides
10:37 PM XXCoder: hmm how large is it?
10:38 PM pink_vampire: for 8-32 screw
10:38 PM pink_vampire: 1/2
10:38 PM pink_vampire: 1/2" deep
10:38 PM XXCoder: I mean part itself
10:39 PM XXCoder: do you have sine plate? if its more narrow than part you could use it to angle part and jaws grip part in it
10:39 PM pink_vampire: the part is the pulley
10:39 PM pink_vampire: i have, but for 60 deg.. it is pushing it.
10:40 PM XXCoder: I cant picture where holes needs to be added
10:40 PM XXCoder: so I cant think up a fixture type
10:41 PM pink_vampire: one sec' i will draw it
10:44 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: you made me making the part <3
10:45 PM XXCoder: :)
10:53 PM pink_vampire: 12 screws..
10:54 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: https://i.imgur.com/NMBPGg0.png[
10:54 PM XXCoder: looking
10:54 PM XXCoder: HMM yeah I see
10:54 PM XXCoder: is oppositing holes aligned to each other?
10:54 PM pink_vampire: this is the 6x6 version
10:55 PM pink_vampire: and i think maybe to do only 3x3
10:55 PM XXCoder: I think I have a idea
10:55 PM XXCoder: depends on if youre willing to make fixture for it
10:56 PM XXCoder: the top 4 holes can be used as aligning if it is in square pattern
10:56 PM XXCoder: so all you need to do is pins horzional for holes for "far" and near" holes as its 90 degrees and easy
10:57 PM XXCoder: then another pins pattern for other 2, you use cnc mill to drill holes in specific pattern in such way that you insert pins and part when inserted into it is angled in 60 degrees
10:57 PM XXCoder: then flip part around for other one
10:57 PM XXCoder: done
10:58 PM XXCoder: so you put one jaw on its side upwards, mill holes for horzional AND 60 degree angled
10:58 PM XXCoder: make sure pins fit in it tightly
10:58 PM XXCoder: part should also fit pins tightly
10:58 PM pink_vampire: yeah' but how i will hold it in the milling?
10:58 PM XXCoder: its to hold part in correct angle as you clamp jaws on part
10:59 PM XXCoder: ok lemme make picture, quick
10:59 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/60lxJ2n.png
10:59 PM pink_vampire: this is in the assamble
11:04 PM XXCoder: https://imgur.com/a/gdtbJqp
11:05 PM XXCoder: positions and ratios is incorrect but you get the idea
11:05 PM pink_vampire: i see! clever!
11:06 PM XXCoder: you'd have to make custom jaw, make sure its either taller than entire drill depth, OR just do one side a time
11:06 PM pink_vampire: so i drill the jaw and use it to locate the pins.
11:06 PM pink_vampire: you gave me better idea
11:07 PM XXCoder: pretty much. it should be simple enough to make soft jaws from alum
11:07 PM pink_vampire: just to machine flats on the part
11:07 PM XXCoder: yeah similiar thing (but with part resting ON pins) can be done for say making nuts also yeah
11:08 PM XXCoder: theres limitions though nut thing better be done with side upwards as usual
11:09 PM XXCoder: anyway with that setup you just use 2 pins a time, first horzional ones to drill first 2 holes that is at 90 degree, then remove right pin and move pin to angled one
11:09 PM XXCoder: do other 4 holes
11:09 PM pink_vampire: my vise is the small emco ones and i want to use them the 5" are the ones for soft jaws, and there is no way i'm going to lift them for only that.
11:10 PM XXCoder: yeah
11:11 PM XXCoder: heh I can barely lift 6" kurt ones, it kurts my back
11:11 PM XXCoder: there is few true monster 8" ones yeah im very not lifting that
11:11 PM pink_vampire: the small emco are so nice on the mill
11:12 PM XXCoder: http://xtl.kapsi.fi/pics/emco/vise_4982.jpg looks nice
11:12 PM XXCoder: looks like 2 inches high?
11:13 PM pink_vampire: no, abit larger
11:14 PM XXCoder: no how tall is it?
11:14 PM pink_vampire: the ones that i got with the lathe
11:14 PM pink_vampire: one sec i will take a pic
11:16 PM pink_vampire: my phone is dead
11:17 PM MarcelineVQ: XXCoder: joepie had a video on a similar interesting pin technique just recently, can't find it though
11:17 PM XXCoder: doh pink
11:17 PM XXCoder: marc interesting
11:18 PM pink_vampire: uploadingg
11:18 PM XXCoder: yeah its nice way to use existing features to hold part in correct place for other features
11:18 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/ZD4qQo1.png vise vs 123 block
11:18 PM XXCoder: so its little shorter than 2 inches tall. not bad!
11:18 PM XXCoder: actually kinda usablke for my cnc router lol
11:19 PM pink_vampire: yeah you can use them no problem
11:19 PM pink_vampire: you can make them very easy
11:19 PM pink_vampire: i think to make a copy of them
11:20 PM Wolf__: this video I think https://youtu.be/lDwAzcSUVtI
11:20 PM XXCoder: my machine can barely run and cut alum :) unfortunately plans cant happen till has more room
11:20 PM XXCoder: he shakes camera way too much
11:21 PM MarcelineVQ: Yeah that was it, I guess I saw it recently rather than it was recent
11:21 PM pink_vampire: Wolf__: i need to driil the holes on the other shell
11:22 PM pink_vampire: i just add some flats to the parts
11:22 PM XXCoder: MarcelineVQ: didnt think of that possibility but then she cant angle part like that
11:22 PM MarcelineVQ: I don't know if it's applicable, just that the vid came to mind
11:23 PM Wolf__: just need to adapt things
11:23 PM XXCoder: method I thought up isnt really complex, just make new soft jaw quick then add 3 holes
11:23 PM Wolf__: this one explains adapting the same idea https://youtu.be/_qYdcolOhGQ
11:23 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/mnaMKuL.png
11:23 PM XXCoder: then position part so and so then drill 6 holes
11:23 PM pink_vampire: problem solved
11:24 PM XXCoder: with that you dont even need angled hole just 2 holes horzional
11:24 PM XXCoder: and since you reuse same holes all sides will be cut same way
11:25 PM pink_vampire: it also not a critical part
11:25 PM pink_vampire: I think i will drill it by hand
11:25 PM XXCoder: all same makes it look awesome lol
11:25 PM pink_vampire: with the cordless drill
11:25 PM XXCoder: im jelious, I suck with drill lol
11:25 PM pink_vampire: if you can't make it right - make it bright.
11:26 PM pink_vampire: or maybe to make it as a pocket operation
11:26 PM pink_vampire: I need 5 axis mill
11:27 PM XXCoder: not really, most stuff you can do with creative vise jaws and thinking
11:27 PM pink_vampire: where i the servo spindle / indexer when i need it?
11:27 PM XXCoder: it takes quite a COMPLEX part to start needing 4th and 5th axis
11:28 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: one sec, I will add decorative impeller on the top.
11:28 PM XXCoder: impeller is techinically can be done with just 3 axis machibe but so so many steps that could go wrong lol
11:29 PM pink_vampire: HOW
11:29 PM pink_vampire: HOWWWW just HOW
11:29 PM XXCoder: 4th and it suddenly is much easier. 5th is easiest
11:29 PM XXCoder: you manually place part in number of degrees each "fin"
11:29 PM XXCoder: darn near 100% chance something goes wrong lol
11:31 PM pink_vampire: but every axis is move in the same time
11:31 PM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aLqeVJC7Ak
11:31 PM XXCoder: yeah ability to rotate like that makes it so much easier
11:31 PM XXCoder: if cant would need to carve out by ball endmill
11:32 PM XXCoder: rotate part, repeat
11:32 PM XXCoder: yeah not worth doing lol
11:32 PM XXCoder: you could also techinically hand-carve one but yeah
11:32 PM XXCoder: what can be done is not always best way
11:33 PM XXCoder: fanastic video.
11:33 PM pink_vampire: hand-carved inconel
11:33 PM XXCoder: lol
11:33 PM XXCoder: if someone was assigned that that person would cry
11:37 PM pink_vampire: if you need to kill some time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyrEb8X8zf8
11:39 PM XXCoder: looking
11:39 PM XXCoder: 3 hours lol
11:39 PM pink_vampire: almost 4..