#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 27 2018

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:58 AM Deejay: moin
02:40 AM Loetmichel: *GNAH* 2 workpieces scrapped and the coworker gt a 2kg aluminium heatsinkf flung at him yesterday... and all just because the union nut on the Plug of the three phase HF spindle wasnt tightened down... Shielding compromised-> steppers do "funny movement patterns" all of their own when the spindle runs (EMI) :-(
02:43 AM XXCoder: ow
02:43 AM sensille: XXCoder: like 50% overlap?
02:44 AM XXCoder: Loetmichel: that sucks, why was union nut off?
02:44 AM XXCoder: sensille: 50% overlap what?
02:44 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: it wasnt off. just rattled lose
02:44 AM Loetmichel: loose
02:44 AM XXCoder: oh I guess it dont have wire lock or something like that
02:44 AM sensille: XXCoder: between #reprap and this channel
02:45 AM XXCoder: ahh sensille dunno some here do like 3d printers then theres some that call em hot glue gun which is... essentally correct lol
02:45 AM sensille: :)
03:20 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: chinese quality. wire lock? you hope... that nut there on the top of the spindle that holds the plug in: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14148&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
03:20 AM XXCoder: bleh
03:20 AM XXCoder: lockete?
03:21 AM XXCoder: I was thinking larger production machine
03:21 AM Loetmichel: and if the shielding of the cable from VFD to spindle is compromized (i.E has no contact to the spindle) it produces enough EMI that the steppers move all around the place
03:21 AM Loetmichel: it is used as a production machine...
03:21 AM Loetmichel: 6 years and counting now
03:21 AM Loetmichel: i am honestly surprised taht it still lives :-)
03:22 AM XXCoder: lol
03:22 AM Loetmichel: with as few hickups as it has
03:22 AM Loetmichel: boss JUST ordered a second one last week
03:22 AM Loetmichel: so we have a spare when that one decides to hit the bucked
03:22 AM Loetmichel: bucket
03:24 AM XXCoder: indeed
04:21 AM gloops: a bit more f360 play, conclusions, a bit like a cross between freecad and sketchup
04:24 AM gloops: good for part design, but not an app to be drawing decor masterpieces with
04:32 AM miss0r: Hello
04:32 AM XXCoder: hey
04:34 AM sensille: anyone familiar with the mathematics of motion control? i try to figure out how to take a turn with constant |v| and limited jerk
04:41 AM miss0r: sensille: I know a little about it. Can you give me something more to work with?
04:43 AM sensille: i've built a controller where each motion command is given by a jerk/time-pair for each axis. i can do linear motion during s-curves now. but what i really want is to keep |v| constant while taking turns
04:43 AM sensille: this will of course give a curve instead of a sharp turn
04:44 AM sensille: so i need a mathematical description of a curve to follow where i can keep |v| constant
04:44 AM sensille: like a circle
04:45 AM sensille: but i can't enter the circle from a straight line with limited jerk
04:45 AM sensille: i thought maybe there are other well-known curves that are better suited for the job
04:46 AM miss0r: yeah.... give me a sec..
04:46 AM miss0r: This is what you are looking for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptote
04:52 AM sensille: there are quite a lot of different functions in that article. i know the general concept of asymptotes and can see how they might apply. do you have any particular function in mind?
04:53 AM miss0r: f(x)=1/x
04:54 AM miss0r: Basically, you never hit zero, so you don't have your start/stop function. You need to have a simular one for your y axis
04:54 AM miss0r: (assuming we are talking x,y)
04:54 AM fragalot: sensille: are you basically looking for a formula to find a tangential intersection between a line and circle?
04:55 AM miss0r: I think the issue was easing into it?
04:56 AM sensille: fragalot: no, for this case i have no particular interest in a circle, it is only one particular curve where it is easy to keep |v| constant
04:56 AM fragalot: k, might want to try a math based channel :-)
04:57 AM sensille: any pointers welcome :)
04:57 AM fragalot: ##math? :P
04:57 AM sensille: but i'll have to think how f(x)=1/x can apply to my problem
04:58 AM sensille: miss0r: do you mean to ease into the circle? or to use 1/x for a right angle turn?
04:59 AM miss0r: sensille: I was thinking of using that formula to do the changeover of velocity between the two axis, to keep the collective velocity a constant
04:59 AM sensille: yes, so no circle involved
04:59 AM miss0r: indeed
05:07 AM XXCoder: heh first time for quite a while, I cut myself shaving
05:07 AM XXCoder: and its a bleeder bah!
05:10 AM miss0r: meh... just get a beard like me
05:10 AM miss0r: no more cutting yourself shaving ;)
05:10 AM XXCoder: homeless beard is only kind I can
05:10 AM XXCoder: teenager homeless
05:11 AM XXCoder: if my beard was any uglier I would be forced by law to wear a bag.. federal law.
05:12 AM miss0r: haha
05:12 AM XXCoder: it took my brother 20 years to be able to grow nice beard
05:13 AM XXCoder: im at 20 years now and not improving
05:13 AM XXCoder: I didnt even shave till I was 27, beating my dad's 25
05:13 AM miss0r: damn
05:13 AM miss0r: I gave up on shaving at the age of 16
05:13 AM fragalot: just start using a straight razor, i've not cut myself since I switched to those
05:13 AM jthornton: morning
05:13 AM miss0r: fragalot: maniac :D
05:13 AM fragalot: granted, I only used them for 6 years before I stopped shaving :D
05:14 AM miss0r: jthornton: Mornin
05:14 AM XXCoder: fragalot: razor to cut 2 mm hair? waste of time
05:14 AM fragalot: suit yourself
05:14 AM XXCoder: it takes a month for me to grow half inch to inch facial air
05:14 AM miss0r: meh.. I do that while napping
05:14 AM XXCoder: heh facial hair is very fast for me
05:14 AM XXCoder: it takes 6 months for my head hair to grow a inch
05:15 AM jthornton: miss0r: you get my pm?
05:15 AM miss0r: yeah.. me to
05:15 AM miss0r: jthornton: Yeah
05:15 AM jthornton: ok
05:16 AM miss0r: XXCoder: I have the same issue with hair vs. beard: I blame gravity
05:16 AM XXCoder: lol
05:16 AM XXCoder: if it was true that "hair growth move south" then it's clear my hair growth moved to texas, misunderstanding what south meant
05:17 AM miss0r: lol
05:17 AM gloops: beards are back in with young males here, why, i have no idea
05:18 AM XXCoder: hipsters
05:18 AM jthornton: I always wanted to grow side burns but never could
05:18 AM XXCoder: I can do classic star trek sideburns, kinda
05:19 AM gloops: seems to have come from an ex-SAS soldier who had a big beard, but was also apparently very good looking and went on a lot of celebrity shows
05:19 AM miss0r: jthornton: If you have sideburns you need to be in the use card sales buisness... otherwise you have no way of utilizing that untrustworthy look :]
05:19 AM jthornton: lol
05:19 AM XXCoder: :)
05:20 AM jthornton: I haven't shaved in 30 years
05:20 AM jthornton: maybe longer
05:20 AM miss0r: wizard look?
05:20 AM XXCoder: pretty large percentage of people at work shave
05:21 AM jthornton: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/calling-any-one-from-missouri.73271/page-907#post-20383249
05:22 AM XXCoder: my shift, 6 shave and 2 dont
05:22 AM XXCoder: was 3 dont, but one fot fired recently
05:22 AM jthornton: I post in that thread but I usually keep it trimmed short
05:23 AM miss0r: damn. That is very close to wizard :] Do anyone let you near a lathe?
05:24 AM XXCoder: miss0r: simple, he wear a bone to roll up hair
05:24 AM miss0r: xD hahaha
05:24 AM jthornton: I just grew that to see how long it might get before my wife cut it off while I was sleeping lol
05:24 AM fragalot: miss0r: he just keeps some polishing compound on it to polish things up on the lathe
05:24 AM miss0r: hey hey hey... Show some respect for the beard
05:25 AM miss0r: I wish I could grow mine that long. But my wife would use it to strange me in my sleep
05:25 AM XXCoder: polishing doubles for hair colorant
05:28 AM XXCoder: quiet
05:34 AM Tom_L: 79°F Hi 95 heat is back on
05:35 AM jthornton: yea 92F for a high today
05:36 AM Tom_L: wind's been blowin all night
05:37 AM XXCoder: heh thats one thing I love about WA
05:37 AM * jthornton has been sawing lumber all night could not hear
05:37 AM XXCoder: once summer is over its essentally over
05:37 AM XXCoder: jthornton: wear ear protection!
05:37 AM XXCoder: its way worse for person to lose hearing than to never have it
05:38 AM jthornton: XXCoder: that was a metaphor for snoring
05:38 AM miss0r: XXCoder: clearly you've never been married
05:38 AM XXCoder: nah single forever
05:38 AM XXCoder: jthornton: damn forgot that
05:39 AM XXCoder: I thought given your place and stuff it was well within realm that you was actually sawing stuff
05:39 AM XXCoder: *of possibilities
05:40 AM jthornton: I quit staying up late at night a long long time ago
05:40 AM jthornton: down to 13:10:02 hours of daylight today
05:40 AM XXCoder: pretty soon will reach halfway
05:41 AM XXCoder: we are also moving closer to sun
05:41 AM XXCoder: strange enough
09:16 AM HexaCube: hey folks o/
09:18 AM HexaCube: alright, first part for my router: done :P https://i.imgur.com/9Hnu47y.jpg
09:21 AM Simonious: So.. It updated my desktop and now when I'm looking at a sketch in solidworks the dimensions aren't displaying correctly. :/
09:39 AM pink_vampire: Simonious: update the windows? or the solidworks?
09:41 AM fragalot: miss0r: did you order it yet? :P
09:42 AM syyl_: got your machine? :D
09:43 AM syyl_: or is schenker still doing something else
09:43 AM gloops: Simonious theres only only thing to do, only one thing you CAN do - restart
09:43 AM fragalot: schenker thinks it's still en-route to the local depot
09:43 AM syyl_: wow
09:43 AM syyl_: weird - they are normaly spot on and fast
09:43 AM fragalot: they said they'd call me when it arrives there to arrange for delivery....
09:44 AM gloops: very nice Hexacube
09:45 AM HexaCube: it's not as nice as I would have liked but I don't know how to control the CNC machine at work aaaand neither did I know how the boring head works
09:45 AM HexaCube: would have looked a bit nicer but I think it'll do it's job just fine
09:45 AM HexaCube: it's just a nut housing after all
09:48 AM Simonious: pink_vampire: windows was updated
09:49 AM gloops: indeed Hexacube, its more important that the bolt holes align, than it is to have a 0000 finish
09:50 AM HexaCube: yup, they should pretty much align. I wanted to do that on the CNC but instead I just went to the center of the hole and then manually moved the mill to the hole positions
09:50 AM HexaCube: After measuring the X/Y coordinates in reference to the center in F360 :P
09:53 AM pink_vampire: Simonious: it sucks
09:53 AM gregcnc: which versions SW, winduhs are causing this problem?
09:53 AM Simonious: Windows 7, SW 2016
09:54 AM Simonious: it worked last week
09:54 AM Simonious: but as I said.. IT did updates AND I ran windows update this morning
09:58 AM HexaCube: but I still have to properly figure out how to square raw stock >:(
09:59 AM HexaCube: it's really annyoing that I fail to do that
10:04 AM fragalot: HexaCube: oxtools has a great video on doing it with only a wire
10:04 AM fragalot: I use that technique a lot now and it's great :)
10:04 AM HexaCube: yes, I could remember seeing a aluminum wire being used so the face on the fixed jaw is the reference
10:05 AM HexaCube: and the face on the "loose" jaw isn't going to skew the stock
10:05 AM HexaCube: I tried that at work today, didn't quite work out :P
10:05 AM HexaCube: maybe I didn't pay enough attention
10:07 AM HexaCube: oxtools, I've heard that name several times now I will check that out!
10:08 AM robotustra: yeah, Tim Lipton channel is good
10:19 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:45 AM fragalot: glad the way home was less eventful than the way to work this morning :D
10:53 AM HexaCube: http://www.themakersguide.com/square-stock-cnc-milling-machine-2-2
10:53 AM HexaCube: that looks similar to what I did, is that a good way ^?
10:53 AM HexaCube: s/did/tried
10:55 AM fragalot: that's a good way, but doesn't work if sidezs 5 and 6 are too wide
10:55 AM fragalot: HexaCube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lgMcDOkeg8 <= this is the method I like
10:56 AM HexaCube: okay, giving that a watch
10:57 AM pink_vampire: HexaCube: the point with square stock correctly is to use the same reference edge face against the fix jaw of the vise
10:58 AM fragalot: pink_vampire: there is more to it than just that one reference surface
10:58 AM fragalot: but generally, yeah. :-) until you get to the sides and you can't fit a square in, and it's too wide to side-mill
10:59 AM pink_vampire: i know, but this is the basic, to use the same face as you reference edge.
11:02 AM pink_vampire: fragalot: you also need to consider surface finish, and tool deflection, and cutting with the tip of the tool like face mill / fly cutter, compere to squaring with endmill that can cut on the side also
11:02 AM fragalot: thick enough shell mill shouldn't really flex all that much
11:03 AM fragalot: but yeah, surface finish of tom lipton's technique is nice
11:03 AM pink_vampire: try it on my 1/8" collet
11:03 AM HexaCube: http://plugin.fps-service.de/tl_files/fps/redaktion/fotos/neumaschinen/500M/500m_hydro/FPS500-hydro-freigestellt.jpg
11:03 AM HexaCube: that's the machine I'm working with D:
11:03 AM HexaCube: * D:
11:03 AM HexaCube: damnit
11:03 AM HexaCube: :D**
11:04 AM fragalot: was gonna say, why are you sad? :D
11:04 AM HexaCube: one finger is faster than the other it seems :P
11:04 AM fragalot: HexaCube: this is mine right now: https://photos.app.goo.gl/mfBZ2XEw3YMqc5Mv7
11:05 AM HexaCube: ohhh, invisible mill, awesome
11:05 AM * HexaCube looks for a REALLY tiny mill on the ground
11:05 AM fragalot: :P
11:05 AM pink_vampire: I love it
11:06 AM fragalot: it's soon to be replaced with this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hGM8dZiuNhzh2Mc36
11:06 AM HexaCube: we also have this one but I have 0 idea how to control it =( https://www.aptint.com/userfiles/product/3911/maho-mh-500-w-cnc-x-500-y-380-z-350-mm-3911_3_l.jpg
11:06 AM HexaCube: ours look much better though, repainted and CLEAN
11:06 AM HexaCube: :P
11:07 AM pink_vampire: fragalot: so no diy vmc?
11:07 AM fragalot: HexaCube: maho's controls aren't that difficult to use
11:07 AM fragalot: pink_vampire: that is still a work in progress, but first I want a mill to mill the parts
11:07 AM fragalot: because i've already milled the RF45, scraped it in, and sold it because I was tired of it's shit
11:07 AM HexaCube: Well, it's just that I didn't get a crash course in it, my instructor isn't here until next week
11:07 AM jelly-home is now known as jelly
11:07 AM pink_vampire: it is funny how i go first with a mill, and now i just love pvc
11:07 AM HexaCube: I'm not even allowed to use it really without him showing me how it works :P
11:08 AM HexaCube: and the Maho is apparently the most expensive piece of equipment around, short of our 5 axis CNC centers heh
11:08 AM HexaCube: so I'm not even going to *risk* breaking it :P
11:08 AM fragalot: :-)
11:08 AM fragalot: they have a fun little issue with them
11:08 AM pink_vampire: and i have the lathe that i don't want to make it dirty with chips
11:08 AM fragalot: the pulses from a manual pulse wheel get buffered
11:09 AM HexaCube: can't wait until we get our very own 5 axis, though
11:09 AM fragalot: so if you spin it too fast, it can keep going & crash
11:09 AM HexaCube: that's one machining center for ~10 apprentices
11:09 AM * HexaCube drools
11:09 AM fragalot: pink_vampire: https://photos.app.goo.gl/aTuodANJowvWRSsw9 <= that's what I did to the RF45
11:09 AM HexaCube: fragalot: okay, that sounds... scary
11:10 AM pink_vampire: one day i will do it on my g0704
11:10 AM fragalot: I was more surprised by how fast that thing sold
11:11 AM fragalot: literally within half an hour of me putting it online, someone was at my door & drove off with it an hour or so later when we finished loading it into his van
11:20 AM HexaCube: hmmm, one question I couldn't find out on my own. What is the maximum hardness you can cut with tungsten carbide inserts?
11:20 AM pink_vampire: http://www.themakersguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/side-5.jpg how it is can be done with fly cutter?
11:20 AM HexaCube: I was wondering if I can perhaps cut a hardened shaft, the supplier told me it's 45HRC
11:20 AM fragalot: HexaCube: depends on the grade of carbide, it should say in the catalog
11:22 AM HexaCube: ahh, let's see if i can find the kind of insert we use at work
11:22 AM fragalot: 45HRC certainly isn't an issue
11:23 AM fragalot: I think you only need to start looking at the carbide qualities when you exceed 50 or 55 HRC or so
11:23 AM HexaCube: alright, that is reassuring
11:24 AM HexaCube: https://www.aliexpress.com/item//32870443672.html this is the shank I'm talking about.
11:24 AM fragalot: oh yeah you can turn that easily
11:24 AM HexaCube: I'd like to turn the shaft down to a different length and perhaps cut a thread, but I'm not too sure on the latter
11:25 AM fragalot: i've modified those before to fit into a deckel spindle
11:25 AM fragalot: turn to length, thread the end, etc
11:25 AM HexaCube: alright, perfect
11:25 AM Inline: heya i have a question, what do you need to handle hard-metal work with cnc-routers ?
11:25 AM HexaCube: I'd like to preload the bearings by tightening a nut onto a thread on the back
11:26 AM jthornton: a milling machine
11:26 AM fragalot: Inline: not a router? :-)
11:26 AM HexaCube: with a spring washer (?) inbetween somewhere :P
11:26 AM Inline: welp, you can mount the milling machine onto the router .....
11:26 AM HexaCube: belleville spring ,I think?
11:26 AM HexaCube: I don't quite know the right english word for it
11:27 AM Inline: so a powerful milling machine and the right metal cutters ofc
11:27 AM Inline: but apart from that, the router should be pretty sturdy not ?
11:27 AM HexaCube: no, they mean milling machine as in... a vertical mill instead of a router :P
11:27 AM Inline: ah
11:27 AM jthornton: a rigid milling machine
11:27 AM fragalot: HexaCube: belleville washer is correct.
11:28 AM HexaCube: a router generally isn't sturdy enough from my knowledge
11:28 AM Inline: hmmm ok then
11:28 AM gregcnc: the FPS 500 isn't a router?
11:31 AM fragalot: Inline: the issue with routers is that you can only take very tiny cuts, at which point you're grinding more than milling, and the tools wear out super fast
11:31 AM fragalot: you can never take a full chip, which means there is a lot of heat and friction
11:35 AM HexaCube: it's a shame, now that i started milling aluminum, it "feels" as if it's soft as butter at work
11:35 AM HexaCube: and at the same time I know that the router I'm building won't ever cut alu
11:35 AM fragalot: that's because it is :D
11:35 AM fragalot: everyone is a hero in alu
11:35 AM gregcnc: butter knife is effective tool for aluminum
11:35 AM HexaCube: right, but alu is already though on a small lightweight router :P
11:36 AM HexaCube: tough/nearly impossible :P
11:36 AM HexaCube: especially considering the spindle i want to build is pretty low power but very very high RPM
11:36 AM gregcnc: why very high rpm?
11:36 AM HexaCube: PCB routing :D
11:36 AM HexaCube: moar RPM == moar better
11:36 AM gregcnc: ok, how will you balance it?
11:37 AM HexaCube: no idea yet :P
11:37 AM HexaCube: idk how well it'll run
11:37 AM fragalot: gregcnc: spin up, if it vibrates, grind away random bit.. if that made it worse, grind off more on opposite side
11:37 AM HexaCube: hah
11:37 AM gregcnc: and continue until nothing is left?
11:37 AM fragalot: :)
11:38 AM HexaCube: well *ideally* the spindle of course is already perfectly balanced :P
11:38 AM gregcnc: only if somebody balanced it
11:39 AM gregcnc: but if light enough it may be tolerable
11:39 AM HexaCube: but... I'm open for suggestions how to balance it "properly"
11:39 AM fragalot: HexaCube: the chinese ones aren't, and certainly not if you modify it
11:39 AM gregcnc: only solution is dual plane balancing
11:39 AM HexaCube: fragalot: yeah, I'm afraid that'll be the case but I'm sure I can work something out. It doesn't need to be perfect, just "good enough"
11:39 AM gregcnc: belt drive?
11:40 AM HexaCube: no
11:40 AM HexaCube: direct drive
11:40 AM HexaCube: belts can't handle the speed, at least none I could find
11:40 AM HexaCube: I need a belt that's fine upwards of 100m/s
11:40 AM gregcnc: eleventy billion rpm?
11:40 AM fragalot: 60k
11:41 AM HexaCube: not *quite* 60k, but... in that ballpark yes
11:41 AM fragalot: go big or go home
11:41 AM HexaCube: hehe
11:44 AM HexaCube: gotta figure out how to limit the current on the brushless DC motor, though
11:44 AM HexaCube: no idea how that works for now, hehe
11:45 AM HexaCube: gonna be run off of an ESC i believe
11:45 AM gregcnc: if you limit current it will stall
11:46 AM gregcnc: You have to make sure the cuts do no exceed current/torque available
11:46 AM fragalot: HexaCube: the ESC will do that for you
11:47 AM gregcnc: when it turns to dust
11:47 AM fragalot: :-)
11:55 AM HexaCube: lol
11:55 AM HexaCube: hmm
11:55 AM HexaCube: alright I see
11:55 AM gregcnc: what is the concern about current?
11:56 AM HexaCube: well, I gotta read up if the motor actually works the way I think it will
11:56 AM HexaCube: the unit I chose has a peak power of 3kW, but I plan on running it at ~500W so it won't overheat
11:56 AM HexaCube: it's a RC brushless motor
11:56 AM gregcnc: 500W is a lot of cutting power
11:57 AM fragalot: especially for engraving
11:57 AM gregcnc: for ER8
11:57 AM HexaCube: the concern is, that if the ESC (or anything else) does not limit the current, the overcurrent protection of the PSU kicks in
11:57 AM HexaCube: the PSU can do like... 600W max
11:57 AM fragalot: that's fine
11:57 AM fragalot: you won't be loading the motor anyway
11:57 AM HexaCube: ER11, not ER8, btw :P
11:58 AM gregcnc: why such a large motor?
11:58 AM HexaCube: fragalot: well, I'd love to do some wood/plastic cutting too, but I'm aware about the limitations so I won't have huge feeds etc.
11:58 AM HexaCube: gregcnc: the motor is pretty small actually
11:58 AM HexaCube: smaller than chinese spindles
11:58 AM gregcnc: been into RC for decades
11:58 AM gregcnc: http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/cncspindle/
11:58 AM fragalot: gregcnc: things have changed since decades ago
11:58 AM fragalot: :P
11:59 AM HexaCube: 3968 motor
11:59 AM fragalot: ok that is a really nice build
11:59 AM HexaCube: oh wow, you did that, gregcnc?
12:00 PM gregcnc: yes, still running
12:01 PM gregcnc: it will probably draw ~5 amps or so (varies with RPM) with no load. then current is proportional to torque demand
12:01 PM HexaCube: pretty much exactly the kinda thing I'm looking forward to build
12:02 PM gregcnc: I have only once run 46A for about 500W.
12:03 PM gregcnc: I've also never run it over ~16kRPM
12:04 PM HexaCube_: sorry, i lost connection - anything after 18:59 i didn't receive
12:04 PM HexaCube_: ohhh, neat
12:06 PM HexaCube_: the motor I chose can run at ~36V, so that's the sorta PSU I will be getting for it
12:07 PM gregcnc: buy 2-3 collet shafts since they are cheap, to make sure you get a decent one
12:08 PM gregcnc: I would also source a good quality balanced ER nut. Basic types are not balanced for that RPM
12:09 PM HexaCube_: alright, thank you very much for your suggestions! That build log looks really great and I'll try to learn from it!
12:09 PM gregcnc: The only thing to add is that my motor is liquid cooled
12:10 PM HexaCube_: yes that is something I am planning too, actually. I'm super worried the motor would overheat, heh
12:10 PM gregcnc: I don't know what the efficiency of those is, but if idle current is high there will be a lot of heat to deal with
12:11 PM HexaCube_: that is the motor I want to use: https://hobbyking.com/de_de/turnigy-sk3-90mm-8s-3000w-fandrive-brushless-edf-motor-3968-1500kv.html?___store=de_de
12:11 PM gregcnc: yes i found it
12:11 PM HexaCube_: 8S so, rated for about 33V but I'm sure nothing will happen if I supply it with 36V
12:12 PM HexaCube_: 1500kv, so that's 36V*1500 = 54000 RPM
12:12 PM HexaCube_: max
12:12 PM gregcnc: correct
12:15 PM Rab: HexaCube_, my cheap and dirty take: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/spindle/index.html
12:15 PM HexaCube_: but I think I'd need some way to make sure the spindle doesn't exceed the max. current the PSU can supply
12:15 PM HexaCube_: it sorta feels... weird not doing that
12:15 PM HexaCube_: Rab: yes I have read that one already! :P
12:16 PM Rab: HexaCube_, for PCBs at 60K, you might consider a dental handpiece.
12:17 PM HexaCube_: well I mentioned earlier, it's not *only* PCBs I want to do
12:17 PM HexaCube_: Plastic and Wood is on my list, aswell
12:18 PM fragalot: HexaCube_: if the motor exceeds the PSU's current you're already loading it harder than you intended it to
12:18 PM HexaCube_: yes but how do I make sure i do not overload it *accidentally*
12:18 PM fragalot: slowing the current would stall the motor out anyway and wreck just as much of your stuff as if the PSU's protection kicked in
12:18 PM fragalot: use a good CAM system
12:19 PM fragalot: don't go slotting 5xD deep in one pass, etc :P
12:19 PM HexaCube_: but fair enough, iirc a motor uses more current the slower it goes, right?
12:19 PM HexaCube_: so if i were to limit the current even further, it'd slow even more... that's what you mean, right?
12:20 PM gregcnc: as torque required increases, RPM drops and current increases
12:20 PM fragalot: HexaCube_: yes, because you require more power but give it less and less
12:20 PM HexaCube_: yes, alright, got it.
12:20 PM gregcnc: if current is fixed the supply reduces voltage, and in cutting situation increase torque required even more
12:21 PM fragalot: most cheap PSU's just go into hiccup mode
12:21 PM gregcnc: even real machines you have to watch the loads. newer machines will stop before breaking things, but not always
12:22 PM gregcnc: If i'm cutting and know I'll be close to power limits I check the cutting parameters to be sure
12:23 PM Rab: With a hobby BLDC motor and ESC I don't think it's a practical issue. The motor will bog down before anything blows up.
12:23 PM gregcnc: I've broken tools
12:24 PM Rab: Danger to the PSU, specifically.
12:24 PM gregcnc: PSU is no concern, if it has it's own protection
12:25 PM gregcnc: tool stalls, cutting stops, servos are feeding things happen
12:26 PM gregcnc: i don't remember if LCNC has anything to detect a stalled spindle and stop, sure something could be written
12:26 PM HexaCube_: hm hmm.
12:26 PM fragalot: most PSU's should have a "dc OK" output on them
12:26 PM fragalot: which you could feed into LCNC
12:26 PM HexaCube_: I wonder if I can wire things up like "if you're close to exceeding the max power, stahp"
12:27 PM fragalot: alternatively, start messing around with current sensing & do it properly :D
12:28 PM HexaCube_: yes that's what I was hinting at :P
12:29 PM Rab: You could use VESC, which reports motor parameters in real time--integrating with LinuxCNC would be an exercise.
12:30 PM Rab: Looks like a few people are trying to do that, for one: https://vesc-project.com/node/346
12:30 PM Rab: Oops, that's not for the spindle.
12:31 PM Rab: https://www.forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/32435-how-to-control-a-brushless-spindle-with-pwm-and-a-vesc-skateboard-speed-control
12:31 PM pcw_home: gregcnc: Someone just posted a spindle overload monitor comp
12:32 PM HexaCube_: i mean, the simplest thing would be to measure the current using a uhh.. <something> resistor and trigger an estop once the voltage (-> current) exceeds a threshold
12:34 PM Rab: HexaCube_, you could also put an encoder on the spindle and monitor whether speed is within commanded parameters. That would catch additional failure conditions which simple overcurrent monitoring might miss.
12:35 PM HexaCube_: yes, that kinda stuff sounds very cool
12:35 PM HexaCube_: I like electronic tinkering :P
12:36 PM Rab: And you probably want a hall-effect or other type of current sensor which doesn't introduce resistance, e.g. https://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Current-Sensor-ICs/Fifty-To-Two-Hundred-Amp-Integrated-Conductor-Sensor-ICs.aspx
12:36 PM fragalot: Rab: RC spindle rigid tapping? :D
12:36 PM gregcnc: pcw_home link?
12:36 PM Rab: fragalot, it's the next logical step.
12:37 PM pcw_home: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/pull/492
12:37 PM gregcnc: will need some reduction or huge motor
12:37 PM Rab: I think the cogging in permanent-magnet BLDCs might add too much excitement to tapping.
12:37 PM fragalot: gregcnc: or inertia and stubbornness
12:41 PM gregcnc: pcw_home that looks good and simple
12:42 PM gregcnc: I have a servo amp that would run my spindle. I looked at how much torque it could handle and I may be able to tap M2.
12:42 PM gregcnc: Might be fun to try
12:43 PM pcw_home: You can of course do the same thing with the near comp and some logic but nice to have it all in one comp
01:04 PM fragalot: !!!
01:04 PM fragalot: schenker updated the tracking number :P
01:05 PM fragalot: which means they finally /ACTUALLY/ found my mill
01:11 PM Tom_L: gregcnc i tried a small tap on the sherline and it did it but it was a struggle
01:13 PM Tom_L: pcw_home will that go to master or filter in as an update to 2.7.1xx?
01:13 PM miss0r: fragalot: :D
01:13 PM fragalot: miss0r: best news is that the ETA is still on the 23rd
01:13 PM Tom_L: fragalot you lost a whole mill??
01:13 PM fragalot: Tom_L: Schenker lost my schaublin
01:13 PM miss0r: fragalot: Does it say what year?
01:14 PM fragalot: miss0r: sadly, yes
01:14 PM miss0r: hehe
01:14 PM fragalot: i have to wait for the numbers to spin 'round again
01:14 PM Tom_L: fragalot i thought you were building one?
01:14 PM fragalot: Tom_L: that too
01:14 PM fragalot: what is this, question time?
01:14 PM miss0r: that might be a while... I don't think anyone agreed on a limit..
01:14 PM miss0r: or does it only have the last two digits?
01:14 PM Tom_L: absolutely
01:15 PM fragalot: miss0r: 4 digits
01:15 PM miss0r: yeah, it might be a while :P
02:38 PM HexaCube_: hmpf I wish I had an old PC around so I could fiddle around with linuxcnc already :(
02:38 PM HexaCube_: is there some kind of "getting started" guide for it?
02:38 PM Deejay: -old
02:38 PM HexaCube_: to learn the basics?
02:38 PM XXCoder: you can run it on laptop, it will work well enough for testing
02:39 PM HexaCube_: hmmm
02:42 PM HexaCube_: could I run it inside a VM?
02:43 PM XXCoder: pretty sure thats fine too as long as you dont run actual machine with that
02:43 PM XXCoder: VM can suspend os running in it, and you dont want that to happen when running machine
02:44 PM HexaCube_: how much RAM should the system have?
02:45 PM XXCoder: good question? my old pc has 8 gb ram lol
02:54 PM Inline: thank you fragalot
02:54 PM Inline: hmmm, i suppose the only sane option seems retrofitting some device....
02:55 PM Inline: btw minis won't do, midis could work better, but those are already in the 40kg level
03:06 PM Tom_L: HexaCube_ http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/
03:06 PM Tom_L: Getting Started with LinuxCNC
03:06 PM Tom_L: first heading
03:06 PM HexaCube_: perfect, thank you
03:07 PM Tom_L: bookmark it. you'll use it alot
03:08 PM Tom_L: 2G ram should be adequate
03:08 PM Tom_L: more won't hurt
03:08 PM gloops: Hexacube you only need an old XP era PC to run linuxcnc
03:08 PM gloops: $10-20
03:09 PM HexaCube_: hmmm, I'm reading that you can configure two parallel ports?
03:09 PM Loetmichel: a bit more modern would be good though
03:09 PM gloops: Loetmichel yes definitely
03:09 PM XXCoder: no embedded video card.
03:09 PM Inline: planet cnc is a good resource too i think
03:09 PM Loetmichel: i noticed that the new debian based versions need at least a core2 duo 3ghz to run smoothly
03:09 PM gloops: i just got a quad core for £45
03:09 PM HexaCube_: I'm surprised there's still mainboards that do have parallel port, actually
03:10 PM XXCoder: all of em still has em
03:10 PM XXCoder: many simply dont bother to connect a port to it
03:10 PM XXCoder: but theres still connectors on board
03:10 PM Loetmichel: XXCoder: not ALL
03:10 PM Inline: and you can get linux software too to control the router etc...
03:10 PM Loetmichel: most do have the ports in the chipset though
03:11 PM Loetmichel: its just the question of the traces are fed to a pin header on the board or if that LPT is disable in the chipset
03:12 PM Inline: apart from controller boards and several other stuff
03:21 PM HexaCube_: what I was wondering... what about those PCIE parallel port cards?
03:21 PM HexaCube_: do those work?
03:22 PM Deejay: gn8
03:22 PM XXCoder: you want specific type of parallel card
03:23 PM XXCoder: but I forgot what it is, that wiki should list it tho
03:23 PM XXCoder: any will work, just those work even better for cnc
03:24 PM Wolf__: worth the jump to a ethernet bob at that point vs try to make extra cards work imo anyways
03:26 PM gloops: yeah - mesa = connectivity
03:26 PM gloops: but can be done with 2 parports
03:26 PM HexaCube_: eh I'm just curious about what all the options out there even are :P
03:27 PM gloops: unlikely you will need more pins for a 3 axis machine
03:27 PM HexaCube_: but i'm mainly interested with best bang/buck :P
03:27 PM HexaCube_: gloops: the reason I was asking about the pcie parallel port cards would be that way I wouldn't have to find a mainboard with a parport :P
03:27 PM gloops: the cheapest way is a used PC, but for some reason nobody wants a box in the garage, everyone wants a laptop
03:28 PM HexaCube_: because I think I still have an old pc *somewhere* but idk if it comes with a parport
03:28 PM Wolf__: bang for bucks, 15yr old cpu with para port, $10 bob
03:28 PM HexaCube_: a laptop *would* be preferred because I have one of those here, a pretty modern one, too.
03:28 PM HexaCube_: But it doesn't have a parport i'm pretty sure
03:28 PM Wolf__: laptop = bad latency usually
03:28 PM HexaCube_: plus XXCoder said laptops are bad for CNC
03:28 PM HexaCube_: yes
03:29 PM HexaCube_: why's that, though?
03:29 PM sensille: orange pi?
03:29 PM Wolf__: because they do? lol
03:29 PM HexaCube_: but I can live with not being able to use the laptop :D
03:29 PM XXCoder: I know turning off power management is way to improve latency but there was one other thing I cant remember in bios to also improve latency
03:29 PM gloops: there is a list of PCs with latency test readouts on the linuxcnc docs somewhere
03:29 PM gloops: sometimes what you think should be fast - isnt
03:30 PM Wolf__: one of my cnc boxes is a $80 intel atom mobo
03:30 PM Inline: maybe you need realtime kernel
03:31 PM Wolf__: hmm I think I’m late to work… oops
03:31 PM gloops: mine is a 2008 dell, with 4gig RAM and old 3d graphic card, total cost maybe £30, runs router fine at 5m/min, i am going to get a better one though
03:32 PM HexaCube_: but now I'll see how linuxcnc even looks, installing it in the VM now :P
03:41 PM gloops: i like the old interface - simple and basic, the lads in here are working on some neat new ones though
03:53 PM jthornton: yea this one is looking good https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/34996-another-gui-project-underway?start=70#116673
03:55 PM varesa_ is now known as varesa
03:58 PM gloops: colours maybe a bit bright
04:03 PM Loetmichel: Wolf__: i have an core2duo 2,8ghz at the company that runs latest debian based linuxCNC... it has enough power to do 4 axis simultaneously, run a VNC server AND encode a endoscopic webcam that sits right next to the mill bit.
04:03 PM Loetmichel: and still have reserves.
04:16 PM gloops: hearing of some fairly serious unrest in Chemnitz Loetmichel
04:19 PM Loetmichel: gloops: possible... there are many nazis there often they "stir the pot"
04:19 PM gloops: lol, well, looks like the locals to me
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/wind-turbine-blown-over-by-wind/
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: looks like the concrete failed
04:45 PM gloops: pretty clean break
04:46 PM gloops: looks like the footing was poured then the column added later, snapped off at the joint
04:48 PM Loetmichel: gloops: i dont see ANY footing attachment points
04:48 PM Loetmichel: sure they didnt just "forget" the footing?
04:49 PM gloops: some steel bar coming from the ground, i assumed it was set in concrete lol
04:49 PM Loetmichel: could be the power conduit
04:50 PM gloops: actually yes
04:50 PM gloops: doesnt appear to be any footing lol
04:51 PM gloops: they thought that was just going to stand up like a milk bottle
04:51 PM MarcelineVQ: that or the footing is at the bottom and there was a mere 5 feet of it
04:51 PM Loetmichel: yes
04:51 PM Tom_L: jthornton is that one the one hazzy started or is it another?
04:52 PM JT-Shop: hazzy is helping on it
04:52 PM Tom_L: i knew he had started one before Lcvette came along
04:53 PM Tom_L: didn't know if it was a continuation of it or not
04:53 PM JT-Shop: didn't he start one based on the haas?
04:54 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what it was based on
04:54 PM Tom_L: might try it when it's ready
04:56 PM Tom_L: at least on my test pc
05:48 PM Tom_L: latest mill improvement: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Bearing_Bracket/Bearing_Bracket5.jpg http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Bearing_Bracket/Bearing_Bracket6.jpg
05:48 PM _unreal_: I bothered to lean fwd and click for that????
05:48 PM Tom_L: the rail ends were starting to wear the neoprene
05:48 PM _unreal_: JK..... nice job
05:49 PM Tom_L: oh absolutely
05:49 PM _unreal_: So what is the function of that new bracket with a BB on it?
05:50 PM Tom_L: keeps the neoprene from rubbing the ends of the rails
05:50 PM _unreal_: uhh...
05:50 PM _unreal_: ahhh....
05:50 PM Tom_L: see where it was wearing?
05:50 PM _unreal_: yes
05:51 PM _unreal_: Just a suggestion.... clamp or rivet some Shade cloth on the backside will help with abrasion
05:51 PM _unreal_: as well
05:51 PM Tom_L: i think the problem is solved now
05:52 PM Tom_L: the rubber is thick enough it won't bunch up
05:52 PM _unreal_: ok
05:52 PM Tom_L: and it was free
05:52 PM _unreal_: today I just finished rebuilding a flange on a console for a 130' boat..
05:53 PM _unreal_: it use to be setup with a multi tear setup.. having gauges at different locations "enclosures etc"..... now its one flat panel
05:53 PM _unreal_: well will be
08:15 PM CaptHindsight: echo......
08:16 PM * Tom_L turns full duplex off
08:17 PM CaptHindsight: Jeronimo!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1eXfYSV3Mk
08:20 PM CaptHindsight: quiet in here
08:20 PM Tom_L: lookin for an old cad file...
08:21 PM CaptHindsight: looked at that gear site you posted yesterday
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: interesting that they offer sintered metal gears
08:22 PM Tom_L: saw that
08:22 PM Tom_L: combination of sintered and plastic
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: rather than making just a drum ball mill I was looking at one like the teacup rides
08:25 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/NQYOAvVal28?t=27s
08:26 PM Tom_L: shafts are just attached to the planetary gears there
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, I might just use a set from a transmission
08:28 PM Tom_L: not sure if the center is stationary or driven there
08:28 PM Tom_L: probably driven
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: ~3-4:1
08:31 PM Tom_L: https://grabcad.com/library/fun-with-gears-xx-1
08:31 PM Tom_L: that'd really stir things up
08:45 PM * Jymmm hands Tom_L a giant spoon
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: what you want is motion that maximizes the energy to pulverize the materials inside with the steel or zircon balls inside
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: one too many insides :) too tired, calling it a day
11:57 PM fragalot: miss0r: The mill has arrived in the local depot :D